PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 03, 2016, 05:13:47 PM
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At various times people have said that in recent times, each President has been worse than the one before.
As scary as it is to think about the donald or the doormat being the next President, imagine a President worse than either one of those.
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At various times people have said that in recent times, each President has been worse than the one before.
As scary as it is to think about the donald or the doormat being the next President, imagine a President worse than either one of those.
Yep, we'll see Ted Cruz again in 2020.
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Yep, we'll see Ted Cruz again in 2020.
Do you honestly think Ted Cruz would be worse than Hilary?
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Do you honestly think Ted Cruz would be worse than Hilary?
I'm not a fan of having an ideological religious zealot as president, especially after watching his campaign.
Hillary is the bottom of the barrel for sure.
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Well Reagan was better than his predecessors, especially Carter, but since Reagan we have had terrible Presidents. Even the Republicans (both Bush's) even acted like Democrats in the fiscal sense, and some other ways.
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Well Reagan was better than his predecessors, especially Carter, but since Reagan we have had terrible Presidents. Even the Republicans (both Bush's) even acted like Democrats in the fiscal sense, and some other ways.
And yet somehow we've reached a new low. I cannot remember an election with two candidates who were as objectionable as these.
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And yet somehow we've reached a new low. I cannot remember an election with two candidates who were as objectionable as these.
1976 was no picnic and gave us Jimmy Carter. 2009 gave us a choice between John McCain and Obama. 2012 we watched a lackluster Romney run against Obama.
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1976 was no picnic and gave us Jimmy Carter. 2009 gave us a choice between John McCain and Obama. 2012 we watched a lackluster Romney run against Obama.
McCain, while an establishment member, was at least an actual Republican in some respects and had a record to go on. Romney was a former Republican governor (of a heavily blue state) and had a strong business background. Trump has never held elected office (that doesn't disqualify him, obviously) and has a very questionable record on just about everything when it comes to conservative policies. Neither McCain nor Romney were actual conservatives but both were at least better than Obama, or at least less objectionable. I question the degree to which Trump is better than Hilary, though I do agree he's better at least a little.
I agree that it's been a while since we've had two objectionable candidates of this caliber from each party at the same time.
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McCain, while an establishment member, was at least an actual Republican in some respects and had a record to go on. Romney was a former Republican governor (of a heavily blue state) and had a strong business background. Trump has never held elected office (that doesn't disqualify him, obviously) and has a very questionable record on just about everything when it comes to conservative policies. Neither McCain nor Romney were actual conservatives but both were at least better than Obama, or at least less objectionable. I question the degree to which Trump is better than Hilary, though I do agree he's better at least a little.
I agree that it's been a while since we've had two objectionable candidates of this caliber from each party at the same time.
McCain is a RINO, period. A really sad choice as a presidential candidate, and it showed throughout his campaign.
Romney was lackluster, at best. Another poor choice to run. But hey, at least in their speeches they used the right keywords.
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McCain is a RINO, period. A really sad choice as a presidential candidate, and it showed throughout his campaign.
Romney was lackluster, at best. Another poor choice to run. But hey, at least in their speeches they used the right keywords.
I'm not disagreeing with either of those statements. I don't think Trump is a great choice either but he's who the GOP has this time around.
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I'm not disagreeing with either of those statements. I don't think Trump is a great choice either but he's who the GOP has this time around.
Those previous elections along with congressional and senate elections is why you have Trump now.
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McCain, while an establishment member, was at least an actual Republican in some respects and had a record to go on. Romney was a former Republican governor (of a heavily blue state) and had a strong business background. Trump has never held elected office (that doesn't disqualify him, obviously) and has a very questionable record on just about everything when it comes to conservative policies. Neither McCain nor Romney were actual conservatives but both were at least better than Obama, or at least less objectionable. I question the degree to which Trump is better than Hilary, though I do agree he's better at least a little.
I agree that it's been a while since we've had two objectionable candidates of this caliber from each party at the same time.
Well one candidate wants UK/Australia gun confiscation, and will destroy the 2A. The other at least is saying the right things.
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Well one candidate wants UK/Australia gun confiscation, and will destroy the 2A. The other at least is saying the right things.
He also said you could am,e a fortune in Real Estate if only you spent your money at Trump U.
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He also said you could am,e a fortune in Real Estate if only you spent your money at Trump U.
Trump owns many corporations. Some have failed. Nobody has 100% success rate.
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Trump owns many corporations. Some have failed. Nobody has 100% success rate.
He's a con artist and a fraudster. But you go ahead and believe what he says. You are voting for him, own your guy and all he stands for.
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Well one candidate wants UK/Australia gun confiscation, and will destroy the 2A. The other at least is saying the right things.
Today he's saying the right things. In 2012 he was agreeing with President Obama after Sandy Hook.
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Today he's saying the right things. In 2012 he was agreeing with President Obama after Sandy Hook.
Anthony is literally endorsing someone who supports the assault weapons ban, and wants to destroy the first amendment.
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Anthony is literally endorsing someone who supports the assault weapons ban, and wants to destroy the first amendment.
People change their views, beliefs and opinions all the time and often times they can be sincere. The problem with Trump is that he's changed them so often that it's hard to tell where he actually stands on many issues. He also almost always gives himself an out to change his opinion later and make it seem like he was open to changing it from the beginning.
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People change their views, beliefs and opinions all the time and often times they can be sincere. The problem with Trump is that he's changed them so often that it's hard to tell where he actually stands on many issues. He also almost always gives himself an out to change his opinion later and make it seem like he was open to changing it from the beginning.
What would you rather have? Someone who you know will continue us down the Marxist past or someone that is saying the right things NOW, but has a history of other views? I am voting against the sure thing. I don't want someone worse than Obama the next eight years.
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What would you rather have? Someone who you know will continue us down the Marxist past or someone that is saying the right things NOW, but has a history of other views? I am voting against the sure thing. I don't want someone worse than Obama the next eight years.
Again, the ballot will not say "Not Hillary" it will say "Trump". You're voting FOR Trump. Own what you've voting FOR.
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What would you rather have? Someone who you know will continue us down the Marxist past or someone that is saying the right things NOW, but has a history of other views? I am voting against the sure thing. I don't want someone worse than Obama the next eight years.
I would rather write someone in.
I find it sad and concerning that we've reached the point where we're trying to justify voting for someone who's at least currently saying the right things, but nobody is sure where he will stand if he's elected.
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I would rather write someone in.
I find it sad and concerning that we've reached the point where we're trying to justify voting for someone who's at least currently saying the right things, but nobody is sure where he will stand if he's elected.
A write in vote is a vote for Hillary. A wasted vote. Yes we have two bad choices, but Hillary has a huge voting base, and will be elected if people vote for third party or don't vote for Trump.
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A write in vote is a vote for Hillary. A wasted vote. Yes we have two bad choices, but Hillary has a huge voting base, and will be elected if people vote for third party or don't vote for Trump.
There are a million ways to vote for Hillary, yet there doesn't seem to be any way to vote FOR Trump, eh?
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A write in vote is a vote for Hillary. A wasted vote. Yes we have two bad choices, but Hillary has a huge voting base, and will be elected if people vote for third party or don't vote for Trump.
It's not but we've been over this enough times that I think we just disagree on this point.
Something else I've asked before and haven't gotten a satisfactory response is this: everyone seems to be in agreement that Trump isn't the ideal candidate, but he's the lesser of two evils this time around. Just like Romney was the lesser of two evils last time and McCain before him. At what point do we say that we've had enough of the "lesser of two evils" and get behind someone that we do support? Because it won't happen in 2020 if Trump loses, instead it'll be the exact same argument that's being used now: "We can't let Hilary have another 4 years!" At what point do we get behind someone who is the candidate we want? Why do we have to continually suffer through the "lesser of two evils"?
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It's not but we've been over this enough times that I think we just disagree on this point.
Something else I've asked before and haven't gotten a satisfactory response is this: everyone seems to be in agreement that Trump isn't the ideal candidate, but he's the lesser of two evils this time around. Just like Romney was the lesser of two evils last time and McCain before him. At what point do we say that we've had enough of the "lesser of two evils" and get behind someone that we do support? Because it won't happen in 2020 if Trump loses, instead it'll be the exact same argument that's being used now: "We can't let Hilary have another 4 years!" At what point do we get behind someone who is the candidate we want? Why do we have to continually suffer through the "lesser of two evils"?
At what point will the RNC produce a candidate as you describe? At what point will the RNC stop playing "politics as usual" and "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mentality that gave us what we have today?
Honestly, I don't think it lies within the Republican Party. The RNC is in failure mode not because of the voters, but the RNC itself.
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At what point will the RNC produce a candidate as you describe? At what point will the RNC stop playing "politics as usual" and "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mentality that gave us what we have today?
Honestly, I don't think it lies within the Republican Party. The RNC is in failure mode not because of the voters, but the RNC itself.
I agree but the problem is that it appears that very few are willing to do anything about it. By voting for Trump, you're essentially continuing to the support the RNC, even if indirectly. So what's the way ahead if everyone is just going to continue voting for who the RNC puts forward, even if it's an attempt to stop Hilary? It'll always be an attempt to stop the Democrats and will always be the reason why we have to vote for the RNC candidate.
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A write in vote is a vote for Hillary.
No, it is not.
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Trump owns many corporations. Some have failed. Nobody has 100% success rate.
Very, very few commit outright fraud.
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There are a million ways to vote for Hillary, yet there doesn't seem to be any way to vote FOR Trump, eh?
That is the saddest thing about this whole mess. I've had to hold my nose and vote for George H W Bush (I didn't, I voted for Ross Perot), Bob Dole, George W Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. The issue was that these were to various extents, RINOs.
Trump isn't even up to the level of RINO. And that's who I'm expected to hold my nose and vote for. Worse shit, different day.
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Very, very few commit outright fraud.
C'mon, that's just how business works!
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That is the saddest thing about this whole mess. I've had to hold my nose and vote for George H W Bush (I didn't, I voted for Ross Perot), Bob Dole, George W Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. The issue was that these were to various extents, RINOs.
That's like the biggest loser list. All RINOs as you say. The funny thing is only one out of the four won. So the RNC strategy putting up RINOs isn't working.
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That's like the biggest loser list. All RINOs as you say. The funny thing is only one out of the four won. So the RNC strategy putting up RINOs isn't working.
So, what makes you think the strategy of putting up a Democrat-in-all-but-Name will be better? I mean, you're endorsing him.
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So we started with 17 candidates. The RNC does not pick the candidates, people choose to run. As the field was being whittled own the cry was always, "Trump can't even get 50%". The field continued to be whittled down until we got to Trump. Cruz and Kasich. Trump then began to get better than 50%, which I guess still wasn't enough for people.
The country had 16 others to choose from and in the end they chose Trump. I know all you elitists that would down your nose at people like my sister will never understand the attraction of Trump because you've likely never lived in the world they live in. For decades they have heard "politicians" tell them how everything will be better if they are elected yet things do not get better for them and they are voicing their displeasure by choosing the one candidate that they believe might be able to help them. Will he, I don't think we really know for sure. I know the Cruzers here are beyond convinced and will be satisfied when Hillary is elected and through that they will feel vindicated in their criticism of Trump. In the meantime Hillary will hasten the end of the U.S. of A. It must be sad for Jeff to be so close to becoming an American just when the America he came here for is beginning its journey into oblivion.
My personal belief is there is no turning back at this point in time, short of a real revolution. The kids I went to school with that heard about Communism, as I did, thought it sounded really cool and they took over the colleges and universities over the years and we can now see the fruits of their labor in the Bernie supporters, a whole generation of young folks that now feel everything should be given to them. Just how do you expect to stop that? My youngest son, 41, feels the Bern.
As much of a conservative libertarian as I am I do believe we have CEO's making too much money, but I also have done the math to know that if you cut his/her pay way back and split among everyone it would not amount to much. It is the appearance that counts though. Folks will work hard for a company to earn their paycheck, but it does something to them also to see that the CEO just made $25M dollars this year because they worked so hard.
I am pissed that we do nothing about the illegal immigrants because they will "do the jobs Americans will not do". WTF, how many people are on welfare and how many of those could be doing some of the those jobs? Take the fucking welfare and EBT cards away and see how quickly they take some of those jobs. Since when have we become so proud that we can't landscape, frame houses, pour cement and any number of things?
Look at the Trump protesters in California. They carry Mexican flags and signs that say "make California Mexico again". Let's make their dream come true and just ship their asses back to Mexico. Don't leave Mexico for something better and then come here and try to turn us into Mexico. Come here, assimilate by learning the language and become an American. Somehow that doesn't seem to be a thing to be proud of anymore, thanks to Obama.
It's been a great and I was glad to have been a part of it, but I can see the end in sight. The lessons of Russia, Cuba, Venzuela just to name three have not taught us anything as the Progressive just tell us that it wasn't done right and the "Democratic Socialism" will work. Yeah, that will be the difference, the moochers voting to take more from the producers.
Enjoy what you can while you can.
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The country had 16 others to choose from and in the end they chose Trump. I know all you elitists that would down your nose at people like my sister will never understand the attraction of Trump because you've likely never lived in the world they live in. For decades they have heard "politicians" tell them how everything will be better if they are elected yet things do not get better for them and they are voicing their displeasure by choosing the one candidate that they believe might be able to help them. Will he, I don't think we really know for sure. I know the Cruzers here are beyond convinced and will be satisfied when Hillary is elected and through that they will feel vindicated in their criticism of Trump. In the meantime Hillary will hasten the end of the U.S. of A. It must be sad for Jeff to be so close to becoming an American just when the America he came here for is beginning its journey into oblivion.
I've said I would never vote for Hilary and think she would be a terrible president. So, can you tell me why I would be happy with her winning? It's entirely possible that I don't want either to win (I realize one will actually win) and to express that I may choose to vote for someone else, even if it has to be a write-in.
I am pissed that we do nothing about the illegal immigrants because they will "do the jobs Americans will not do". WTF, how many people are on welfare and how many of those could be doing some of the those jobs? Take the fucking welfare and EBT cards away and see how quickly they take some of those jobs. Since when have we become so proud that we can't landscape, frame houses, pour cement and any number of things?
Look at the Trump protesters in California. They carry Mexican flags and signs that say "make California Mexico again". Let's make their dream come true and just ship their asses back to Mexico. Don't leave Mexico for something better and then come here and try to turn us into Mexico. Come here, assimilate by learning the language and become an American. Somehow that doesn't seem to be a thing to be proud of anymore, thanks to Obama.
It's been a great and I was glad to have been a part of it, but I can see the end in sight. The lessons of Russia, Cuba, Venzuela just to name three have not taught us anything as the Progressive just tell us that it wasn't done right and the "Democratic Socialism" will work. Yeah, that will be the difference, the moochers voting to take more from the producers.
Enjoy what you can while you can.
I agree you on all of this, except that I don't think it's over yet and that we still have a chance. It's sad that Americans don't want to work anymore because it's either "beneath them" or, even worse, they believe they don't need to because the government will just give them hand outs and take care of them (spare me the arguments about the Supreme Court, I'm not yet convinced that Trump would do a whole lot better though I do appreciate his recent list and think it was a good step to reaching out to conservatives -- I want to see him follow through though). I think we can turn this around but part of it will have to come from politicians who actually care about the country and that in turn has to come from people willing to throw their support behind them, which includes presidential elections.
Yet again we're right back to this whole thing of being boxed into a linear choice, black and white, it's either Trump or Hilary and we're so concerned about ensuring that Hilary doesn't get elected that we don't want to look at the bigger, longer term picture. It seems that much has been forgotten about the House, Senate and all of the state legislatures which have more Republicans now than anytime in recent history. The states are fighting back on their levels and some states, like Texas, are already telling the federal government they won't enforce certain things.
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That's like the biggest loser list. All RINOs as you say. The funny thing is only one out of the four won. So the RNC strategy putting up RINOs isn't working.
Well, first, it's not a funny thing. Second, if this is a funny thing, why would putting someone up who isn't even a RINO - more like a DINO - a better answer?
Are you saying the right is moving left, and we should all get on board the left-bound train?
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So, what makes you think the strategy of putting up a Democrat-in-all-but-Name will be better? I mean, you're endorsing him.
Beat me to it.
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Well, first, it's not a funny thing. Second, if this is a funny thing, why would putting someone up who isn't even a RINO - more like a DINO - a better answer?
Are you saying the right is moving left, and we should all get on board the left-bound train?
No, I don't want to get on board the left bound train. But I don't want to get on board the Saul Alinsky, Marxist train even less. After this election we need to fix the Republican party to nominate conservatives.
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No, I don't want to get on board the left bound train. But I don't want to get on board the Saul Alinsky, Marxist train even less. After this election we need to fix the Republican party to nominate conservatives.
The Republican Party as I knew it is dead, gone the way of the Whig party. Good riddance.
If we need to nominate conservatives, we just had the best chance to do so in 3 decades. The Republican electorate just fucked that up, in the most colossal way.
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No, I don't want to get on board the left bound train. But I don't want to get on board the Saul Alinsky, Marxist train even less. After this election we need to fix the Republican party to nominate conservatives.
This is exactly the point behind that question I've asked several times about the way ahead. If Hilary wins, then what? Do we just fall in line behind whomever the candidate in 2020 is, even if it's someone like Trump or Romney or McCain, purely for the sake of stopping Hilary? The work of finding conservatives always seems to be after some other event has happened instead of before.
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This is exactly the point behind that question I've asked several times about the way ahead. If Hilary wins, then what? Do we just fall in line behind whomever the candidate in 2020 is, even if it's someone like Trump or Romney or McCain, purely for the sake of stopping Hilary? The work of finding conservatives always seems to be after some other event has happened instead of before.
You won't have to worry about it. The Republican party is dead, they just haven't stopped moving.
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You won't have to worry about it. The Republican party is dead, they just haven't stopped moving.
I don't think it is dead, but Darwinism is hard at work. I also think the days of the Democrats, as we know them, are numbered too.
And even more strongly, I don't feel America, or the American dream is dead. But someone needs to send us a get-well soon card.
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I don't think it is dead, but Darwinism is hard at work. I also think the days of the Democrats, as we know them, are numbered too.
And even more strongly, I don't feel America, or the American dream is dead. But someone needs to send us a get-well soon card.
I we don't at least make education, the media, an government balanced politically, then we have no chance of getting rid of this out of control liberal/progressive PC nonsense which is killing us. It may take a total collapse first to do that.
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And even more strongly, I don't feel America, or the American dream is dead. But someone needs to send us a get-well soon card.
Agreed. I very much believe that we can fix the issues in this country and get back on track.
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With the inevitability of one of the two insane idiots becoming our next president, I am fairly confident that whichever idiot wins will be the LAST American President. I cant see a way out. Between the moronic bathroom confusion of the progressive snowflake, morons and the total collapse of any hint of educating being done in colleges or public schools and the overwhelming, public fleecing of the treasury by the current regime, America is toast and the next economic 'correction' will beso bad that it all hits the fan at once.
After all, that was Barack Obama's idol's intention all along. Just read his writings.
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With the inevitability of one of the two insane idiots becoming our next president, I am fairly confident that whichever idiot wins will be the LAST American President. I cant see a way out. Between the moronic bathroom confusion of the progressive snowflake, morons and the total collapse of any hint of educating being done in colleges or public schools and the overwhelming, public fleecing of the treasury by the current regime, America is toast and the next economic 'correction' will beso bad that it all hits the fan at once.
After all, that was Barack Obama's idol's intention all along. Just read his writings.
I don't think the situation is that dire, yet. If Hilary wins we could start approaching that point. That being said the American people are very resilient and the political system here is a pendulum that tends to swing back and forth. Both Woodrow Wilson and FDR were huge progressives that loved to spend and yet we managed to still come out alright. I still have hope.
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I don't think the situation is that dire, yet. If Hilary wins we could start approaching that point. That being said the American people are very resilient and the political system here is a pendulum that tends to swing back and forth. Both Woodrow Wilson and FDR were huge progressives that loved to spend and yet we managed to still come out alright. I still have hope.
Even FDR, and Wilson weren't America haters. They did view the U.S. as sovereign, and superior in its philosophy. Today's Democrat is different. A PROGRESSIVE/LIBERAL who blames America first, does not want an American culture in which to assimilate, and promotes a hyphenated society with a vast dependent, lower and middle "class" with an elite political class with special rights.
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I don't think the situation is that dire, yet. If Hilary wins we could start approaching that point. That being said the American people are very resilient and the political system here is a pendulum that tends to swing back and forth. Both Woodrow Wilson and FDR were huge progressives that loved to spend and yet we managed to still come out alright. I still have hope.
That's only because the majority of citizens were ideologically conservative. Now it's no longer true.
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That's only because the majority of citizens were ideologically conservative. Now it's no longer true.
I'm not sure that's true. Look at how many state legislatures are controlled by conservatives/Republicans, and that number has been growing steadily over the past several election cycles.