PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: nddons on July 11, 2017, 08:04:59 AM
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This board seems pretty quiet lately, and it seems no one reads the Pilot Zone any more, so I'm putting this in the SZ.
I'll be there all week starting the Friday before the show, and working Flightline Ops almost every day.
At some point (Wx dependent) I'll drive down to Waukesha to bring fly our CAF PT-26 into the show via the Fisk Approach.
Anyone else going?
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Not going. I HAVE to be at my FILs 90'th birthday party in Connecticut. I have no real choice in the matter.
I'd MUCH rather be at OSHKOSH.
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Coming in late Tuesday (Delta to MKE) and headed back home on Friday.
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Not going. I HAVE to be at my FILs 90'th birthday party in Connecticut. I have no real choice in the matter.
I'd MUCH rather be at OSHKOSH.
Drag your FIL to Osh. ;D
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I'll be there, just don't know which days yet.
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I'll be there most/all of the week.
Flying up 217TF, our student built RV-12 to exhibit. Come check it out! (www.tangoflight.org).
-Dan
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I plan to fly in Wednesday and stay until the bitter end. How is it getting out on the last Sunday?
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I'm not going this year unfortunately. Y'all enjoy!
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I have plenty of time off, good working plane, looks like decent weather, and I am absolutely NEVER going to Oshkosh again, unless they quit paying the extortion to the FAA. They can just pound govt sand.
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I have plenty of time off, good working plane, looks like decent weather, and I am absolutely NEVER going to Oshkosh again, unless they quit paying the extortion to the FAA. They can just pound govt sand.
What extortion is that?
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Ruh-roh. Maybe I need to eat some delicious crow, and plan for Oshkosh soon.
Original extortion: http://jdasolutions.aero/blog/faa%E2%80%99s-proposal-to-charge-eaa-for-the-oshkosh-tower-airventure%C2%AE-costs-may-appear-to-be-unwise-to-some-but-difficult-to-all/
New bill from April 2016: http://archive.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/senate-bills-bars-feds-from-charging-eaa-for-air-traffic-controllers-b99710012z1-376283321.html/
Revoking the FAA charter from charging for airshow support. However, I can't for the life of me find out if the bill passed, and went into effect. So, I don't know if the FAA will charge Oshkosh this year or not. Bit of a sticky wicket, harumpf, harumpf...
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From my understanding EAA pays for travel costs, lodging, infrastructure,and overtime for the controllers. Sounds reasonable since when you come down to it, EAA is a private organization having the government provide services for something that caters to a few people out of our overall population.
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Uh - sir, you are paying for it. In fact, you are paying triple for it.
1. DOT/FAA general revenues, includes ATC service.
2. Fuel tax goes into the airport and airway trust fund. Part funding operations of tower, enroute, terminal service.
3. EAA passes through the FAA fee for specific services at OSH.
I guess it's good for folks to represent, because you are being taxed to the shit-house for their 'service'. Remember what SCOTUS told us about the health care fee or avoided use fee. BO told us it was not a tax. SCOTUS said it's ok to charge it because yes - it is a tax.
Tax/fee. If it goes into the govt all the same. Goes back to the 1930s when we changed from a nation of laws, to a nation of 'crats. 'If it moves, charge a fee. If it doesn't move, tax it'.
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I am going up Saturday to Thursday.
Last year was my first year and I had a blast.
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Uh - sir, you are paying for it. In fact, you are paying triple for it.
1. DOT/FAA general revenues, includes ATC service.
2. Fuel tax goes into the airport and airway trust fund. Part funding operations of tower, enroute, terminal service.
3. EAA passes through the FAA fee for specific services at OSH.
I guess it's good for folks to represent, because you are being taxed to the shit-house for their 'service'. Remember what SCOTUS told us about the health care fee or avoided use fee. BO told us it was not a tax. SCOTUS said it's ok to charge it because yes - it is a tax.
Tax/fee. If it goes into the govt all the same. Goes back to the 1930s when we changed from a nation of laws, to a nation of 'crats. 'If it moves, charge a fee. If it doesn't move, tax it'.
I have no problem paying for it with taxes or fees. I use the services and support EAA. It's alot of the other crap my taxes get used for that bothers me.
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You don't mind paying triple for one service?
Houston - we have a problem.
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We already do that and more with everything else in our lives, so I have better things to do than get all butthurt over it. It's better than what the FAA tried to pull a few years ago. You don't like it, then don't go. You won't be missed.
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I have plenty of time off, good working plane, looks like decent weather, and I am absolutely NEVER going to Oshkosh again, unless they quit paying the extortion to the FAA. They can just pound govt sand.
I wouldn't blame the EAA. It was extortion masquerading under the cloak of sequester. The FAA would have pulled the airspace waiver. EAA had no choice but to pay it and fight it out later. It sounds like they paid if for the last 3 years.
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I wouldn't blame the EAA. It was extortion masquerading under the cloak of sequester. The FAA would have pulled the airspace waiver. EAA had no choice but to pay it and fight it out later. It sounds like they paid if for the last 3 years.
As I researched it, the EAA subsequently made a long term deal to pay the FAA(and pay, and pay, and pay). I think like an anarchist. If the FAA had told ME the charges were coming, then I would have dis-invited the FAA, moved to an un-towered field, and gone on with the show. There's huge uncontrolled fields all over the US that would love to host Airventure.
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I have no problem paying for it with taxes or fees. I use the services and support EAA. It's alot of the other crap my taxes get used for that bothers me.
A lot of stuff that my taxes gets used for bothers me. A bloated military 6 times the cost of our nearest competitor that does little to keep me safe and some stuff that doesn't. A security establishment that has whittled away my rightist their never-ending search for terrorist or drug-lord boogeymen. A border control so facist I won't even go near the damn thing. Government agencies that spy on Americans en masse in the name of "national security". I could easily go on.
But here's the thing. Some the stuff I detest a lot of you guys probably like, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What makes the whole shebang work is that guys who think like me compromise with guys who think like you. No one emerges happy, but no one emerges disenfranchised either. The government works best when everyone compromises. It doesn't work at all when hey won't.
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A lot of stuff that my taxes gets used for bothers me. A bloated military 6 times the cost of our nearest competitor that does little to keep me safe and some stuff that doesn't. A security establishment that has whittled away my rightist their never-ending search for terrorist or drug-lord boogeymen. A border control so facist I won't even go near the damn thing. Government agencies that spy on Americans en masse in the name of "national security". I could easily go on.
But here's the thing. Some the stuff I detest a lot of you guys probably like, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What makes the whole shebang work is that guys who think like me compromise with guys who think like you. No one emerges happy, but no one emerges disenfranchised either. The government works best when everyone compromises. It doesn't work at all when hey won't.
Ok
Assuming you are one of the guys willing to compromise,
Who is the other one?
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As I researched it, the EAA subsequently made a long term deal to pay the FAA(and pay, and pay, and pay). I think like an anarchist. If the FAA had told ME the charges were coming, then I would have dis-invited the FAA, moved to an un-towered field, and gone on with the show. There's huge uncontrolled fields all over the US that would love to host Airventure.
No waivered airspace? You won't get any "air show" acts, as they can't do aerobatic maneuvers (>60* banks, etc.) and won't risk losing their tickets. 10,000 arriving aircraft? Good luck with that at an uncontrolled field. I'm not sure anyone is willing to go to the way the EAA convention was when it was at Timmerman or Rockford airports, when they were more of a petting zoo.
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So it won't be as big as Airventure. I can get waivered airspace for low level acro at any location I want, just by applying and following the rules. Heck, we have acro at our local grass field every year during our fly-in.
Missing the point. Imagine the howl, and anger, frustration, and the waves in congress/senate knowing that the FAA is what shut down the biggest air gathering on the planet. Sometimes it takes a spine. EAA tells FAA to go pound sand for one year, and deal with the results. I"m guessing they would win in the next year. But, too late now, everyone bend over and lube up.
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Would you rather have the FAA provide funding for the air show personnel? Out of what funds? Sequestration eliminated that budget.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
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Missing the point. Imagine the howl, and anger, frustration, and the waves in congress/senate knowing that the FAA is what shut down the biggest air gathering on the planet.
The most they could accomplish wouldn't amount to more than a squeak next to the people demanding their food stamps, obama phones and other free shit. And they would get zero sympathy from the general populace.
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The most they could accomplish wouldn't amount to more than a squeak next to the people demanding their food stamps, obama phones and other free shit. And they would get zero sympathy from the general populace.
Exactly. 10,000 aircraft. 563,000 attendees last year. 12.5 million Obamaphone subscribers in 2013. Who's going to win that funding argument?
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Fixing the funding problem is easy.
Repeal sequestration.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
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Fixing the funding problem is easy.
Repeal sequestration.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
I love sequestration.
If the politicians have a problem with, then fix the problem that caused it.
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I love sequestration.
Then you don't mind the EAA ponying up money for ATC services?
Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
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POA is quiet? I didn't notice, I haven't been there.
I thought I was going, but a job change means I probably will not. Although we have flexible vacation time, it's not the time to be flexing the vacation...
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POA is quiet? I didn't notice, I haven't been there.
They're too busy discussing working on trucks, second guessing experts and arm chair quarterbacking the latest accidents. Oh and the usual ones just making crap up to feed their egos.
Very little GA discussion going on there.