PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Number7 on February 11, 2019, 03:25:18 PM
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I am often undecided on the use of the death penalty in the USA. My reluctance has mostly been due to the proliferation of brutally corrupt prosecuting attorneys that get elected and appointed, who use their power in the most ignorant ways.
The Kaycee Anthony case is a good one to use for this purpose. The prosecutor put a young woman on trial in a capital murder case without any of the evidence needed beyond that she was the mother of the baby and people didn't really like her.
There was no weapon, no conclusive cause of death, whatsoever, and no witnesses, as well as no DNA evidence and no confession. The trial took over a year and the State Attorney got kicked out by the voters the next November.
With deranged prosecutors such as Lawson Lamar making the decision whether to go for the electric chair, or not, I can't begin myself to support the government on this.
However, I attended a seminar on human trafficking going from the US to the Dominican Republic. The charter jets heading over there from here are FULL of middle aged, upper middle class earning, men.
These fucking pigs go to the Dominican on excursions set up by the Russian mob, and pay exorbitant amounts of money to rape children down to THREE YEARS OLD.
THREE is the new hot age for rapists. Not even churches in the Dominican will take in children once they've been turned out by the human traffickers.
Apparently bill clinton has taken some 39 trips to Harvey Wienstein's pedophile island, where they run amok raping children, which makes him lower than snake shit on the humanity scale.
Seeing the evidence of this and discovering that ever since billy boy was president, US prosecutors intentionally look the other way, I am in full support of the death penalty for these freaks and the Russians behind it, as well as everyone in the Dominican involved is providing it.
I am also good with having the Air Force shoot down those jetliners full of US businessmen who are headed to the island to rape small children.
having seen numerous photographs of every prominent communist (democrat) in America with Harvey Weinstein, including hilary, billy and barry, i am happy to add their names to the list deserving punishment.
I am interested in other opinions about this topic, since so many human traffickers are being shielded by the communist (democrat) party along our southern borders.
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I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Following up on my post in the other thread, this is the very definition of pure evil. The death penalty is too good for them.
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Nope.
Reason - either you value life or you do not. If you're complaining about babies being murdered, you have no business cheering the murder of criminals. Yes, it is the same thing. No, self defense is not murder. Yes, I know they're horrible people. No, i don't change my mind about the value of life based on whether or not I approve of someone....that's what leftists do. Yes, it really is that simple.
Life without parole in a tiny box? Sure. But God gave them that life, you no more have the right to take it away from them than you do to take away a baby's life.
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Nope.
Reason - either you value life or you do not. If you're complaining about babies being murdered, you have no business cheering the murder of criminals. Yes, it is the same thing. No, self defense is not murder. Yes, I know they're horrible people. No, i don't change my mind about the value of life based on whether or not I approve of someone....that's what leftists do. Yes, it really is that simple.
Life without parole in a tiny box? Sure. But God gave them that life, you no more have the right to take it away from them than you do to take away a baby's life.
Congratulations on feeling so superior.
Other than your sermon on your own perfection, I was mostly in agreement. Then you went off on your self-righteous bullshit hour, and lost me completely.
However... men and women who steal children and traffic them for the purpose of selling them to rape freaks, ought to be disqualified from being thought of as human.
Those who pay to rape infants need a bullet, not a trial.
And those who set it up need two.
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You support killing people because they did horrible things. You disapprove of their actions and they must be destroyed. Maybe you do not like that truth being pointed out. It does not make it false.
I am pretty sure this was the same rationalization used by Marx and others...these people cause me trouble, they must be killed. I do not believe that using your personal judgement to condemn someone to death is moral ground we want to encourage, especially in today’s political environment. We are far too close to Leftists declaring conservative thought to be horrible and hateful and punishable by death. No, we aren’t there, but we are too close.
I struggle with this too, it is really easy to fall into vengeance. But that is a false path and justifies all kinds of bad behaviors against you.
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I think the level of violence and depravity need to be greatly increased to warrant the death penalty. It should only be used in the worst circumstances, and it should not be left to local jurisdictions and vindictive little local AGs. All death penalty cases should be tried in a Federal Court. After all, right to life is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution and only a Federal Court should be able to withdraw that right. And the proceedings of that court should be wholly transparent.
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In another thread I was appalled at all the footage released in the Chris Watts case but someone made a comment that made me see it differently. He said he is from Germany and in Germany they never release such stuff to the public. And that releasing it in America keeps the interrogation process clean. (100% of the interrogation footage was released.)
I still think people’s names and addresses should have been redacted but I realize that he’s right. However whether such footage is released is up to local jurisdictions. The FOIA only applies to the feds (the FBI is involved in the Watts case).
Maybe it’s worth losing our privacy to keep the public eye on all the evidence gathering and proceedings.
On the other hand maybe it does more harm than good because that same public can turn into a virtual lynch mob and potentially influence trial outcomes. In the Watts case for example, the hatred and threats toward Watts’ mistress was so extreme she had to go into witness protection, and she was only another innocent victim of the murderer’s psychological manipulation. People are actually forming petitions demanding that she be investigated as an accessory based on imagined fleeting images from a security camera that they are sure they “see” a second person at the scene where Watts is loading the bodies in his truck.There is no second person there but there is public hysteria over the case.
So there are huge negatives associated with cases being so transparent- but if the death penalty is involved maybe they should be that transparent.
I watched the entire 5 hour interrogation of Dennis Oland who was convicted of bludgeoning his father to death. It starts off very good cop, the police are questioning all the family members so Dennis has no reason to think he’s being singled out and he is very open and cooperative. About midway through the cop gets it in his head he’s guilty and so advises him of his right to talk to a lawyer. Dennis goes out and calls his lawyer who of course tells him to not say another word, so he says “My lawyer said don’t say another word so I’m done talking to you.”
This is in Canada where the laws are a little different than here but normally in America at that point you may leave the station, unless they have enough probably cause to detain you, right? In this case they had no evidence at all. They based their suspicion on the fact that Dennis could not accurately remember which street he had taken when driving home from his dad’s office the night he was killed. This was called “inconsistencies in your statement”.
The next two and a half hours were a horrible bad cop grilling, verbally beating the guy down while he steadfastly repeated “my lawyer said not to talk anymore” and the cops saying stupid stuff like “that’s between you and your lawyer that has nothing to do with you and me and I need you to talk to me right now because I need to understand why you killed him.”
The whole thing was a display of all the tricks police will use against you which yeah will catch you if you’re guilty (watch them work on Chris Watts the idiot) but which will surely trap you if you’re innocent. (Dennis Oland’s conviction was eventually overturned).
Being able to watch these tapes is a powerful warning to the public that will help keep innocent people from being victimized by overzealous police and prosecutors, but might also help the guilty get off - it’s a conundrum but I’ve always been on the side of its better to avoid wrongly punishing the innocent even if some guilty get away than to get all the guilty at the cost of also getting some innocent. I think our whole Constitution supports that idea.
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You support killing people because they did horrible things. You disapprove of their actions and they must be destroyed. Maybe you do not like that truth being pointed out. It does not make it false.
I am pretty sure this was the same rationalization used by Marx and others...these people cause me trouble, they must be killed.
Not the same thing. People who rape three year olds are sick fucks and need to be put down just like any other diseased animal. They should be given a fair, objective, impartial trial and then shot.
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I am against the death penalty, primarily because we've proven that we sometimes get it wrong, and I can't imagine the suffering and anguish of someone who knows they are innocent and yet are put to death.
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Not the same thing. People who rape three year olds are sick fucks and need to be put down just like any other diseased animal. They should be given a fair, objective, impartial trial and then shot.
It’s funny, but there are leftists who claim that anyone who voted for Donald Teump is a sick fuck and needs to be put down. Worse, they are absolutely serious. I had one tell me that they were going to volunteer to start the showers.
You think this because of your moral code. They think that way because of their moral code. To them, voting for Trump is just as bad or worse.
This isn’t artificial. The only way you can justify this is to apply judgement and then to disapprove of the person enough to kill them. Ditto for them.
Convince me I am wrong. If you can’t, then what does that say?
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It’s funny, but there are leftists who claim that anyone who voted for Donald Teump is a sick fuck and needs to be put down. Worse, they are absolutely serious. I had one tell me that they were going to volunteer to start the showers.
You think this because of your moral code. They think that way because of their moral code. To them, voting for Trump is just as bad or worse.
This isn’t artificial. The only way you can justify this is to apply judgement and then to disapprove of the person enough to kill them. Ditto for them.
Convince me I am wrong. If you can’t, then what does that say?
They are just wrong. That's all. That is like putting a feather on one side of a scale and a brick on the other and saying "see, they both have weight so they are both just as bad". But I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you (or them).
So what does that say? It says that I don't believe anything will convince your (or them).
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Like many here, I am torn on the issue. But unlike some, I am not 100% for or against the death penalty.
I do think we can make major changes.
First, I Think the death penalty needs a much tighter description for what is eligible. Self defense? No. Crimes of passion? No. Crimes of acute rage? No. Life in prison for some of these, maybe.
Death needs to be meted out to the truly incorrigible, pathological menaces to society. And the level of doubt needs to be raised from "reasonable doubt" to "no doubt". Witnesses can't be a deciding factor. Neither can circumstantial evidence. I know we can't make it perfect but we can make it a whole bunch more perfect than we do now.
Also, there is no way I can confuse murdering viable full term fetuses and infants with executing pathological murderers and rapists. And I am not even anti-abortion in some cases. The equivalence just isn't there.
Almost every problem we have in this country/world is due to too many people. Executing the pathological, incorrigible garbage won't make a dent in that, but it won't hurt.
To me, the category of crime that is most deserving of capital punishment is not murder. The first ones I would execute would be those in the sex trade, that force and sell young girls and boys into prostitution as slaves. That is worse than murdering their body. It is murdering their whole sole and psyche. And it doesn't end until the victim dies.
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It’s funny, but there are leftists who claim that anyone who voted for Donald Teump is a sick fuck and needs to be put down. Worse, they are absolutely serious. I had one tell me that they were going to volunteer to start the showers.
You think this because of your moral code. They think that way because of their moral code. To them, voting for Trump is just as bad or worse.
This isn’t artificial. The only way you can justify this is to apply judgement and then to disapprove of the person enough to kill them. Ditto for them.
Convince me I am wrong. If you can’t, then what does that say?
There is nothing a Trump supporter can or should do to convince a leftist that they are the equivalent of a baby raping sick fucks. None. Nothing. Zip.
On the other hand, it would be helpful for people who claim to be the thoughtful people in the middle like you to tell those leftists that they are out of their fucking mind’s, and should grow up.
I am so fucking sick of people thinking that I should have to apologize or “prove” that I’m not a racist/homophobe/Nazi/fascist/misogynist/Science denier because I voted for Donald Trump. Yet that is the prevailing feeling, and your post proves it.
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I am so fucking sick of people thinking that I should have to apologize or “prove” that I’m not a racist/homophobe/Nazi/fascist/misogynist/Science denier because I voted for Donald Trump. Yet that is the prevailing feeling, and your post proves it.
This strikes me as a straw man.
WHO is do you think is suggesting you should apologize? Certainly not me. That makes it some hypothetical “pinko Linnie commie” that has no name because they don’t exist.
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... But I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you (or them).
So what does that say? It says that I don't believe anything will convince you (or them).
What I heard - You aren’t going to waste your time discussing this because you have no desire to think about it.
Sad.
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What I heard - You aren’t going to waste your time discussing this because you have no desire to think about it.
Sad.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what you heard.
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The problem with killing all the sick fucks that rape children is that particular subject tends toward witch hunts and mass hysteria.
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The problem with killing all the sick fucks that rape children is that particular subject tends toward witch hunts and mass hysteria.
Don't those sick fucks usually get taken care of in prison?
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Don't those sick fucks usually get taken care of in prison?
That’s what they say.
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Don't those sick fucks usually get taken care of in prison?
Yes they do.