PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on July 24, 2018, 06:09:10 AM
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The EU has accused China of dumping steel on world markets.
Now, China is accusing the EU of dumping steel.
Yet when the US accuses both China and the EU of dumping steel, and levies tariffs accordingly, the MSM accuses the US of unilaterally provoking a trade war.
Ho hum. Life goes on as usual for those that hate America first.
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While I'm sure there are shenanigans going on with the Chinese steel market, I don't have a lot of pity for the US steel industry. The USW union did about 90% of the damage to the US industry to start with. Good steel is heavy, and it's costly to make right. The US had a lock on steel production for decades. The union did it to themselves.
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While I'm sure there are shenanigans going on with the Chinese steel market, I don't have a lot of pity for the US steel industry. The USW union did about 90% of the damage to the US industry to start with. Good steel is heavy, and it's costly to make right. The US had a lock on steel production for decades. The union did it to themselves.
You are partly right.
The "unions did it to themselves" part is correct.
But the unions also did it to you and me, and personally, I don't want to take it any more. We have an intolerable situation now, and it needs to be addressed. I don't necessarily agree with the way Trump is addressing it, but I applaud him for the fact that he is addressing it. And I expect that in the long run, we will be better off for it.
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Of course, capitalists always pay for the mistakes of socialists.
Something I recall from long ago with steelmaking, once the electric furnace has been used for more than a couple weeks, if it's let to cool past a certain temp then it's severely damaged and requires extensive costly repair. From rumors back in the 70s, the union guys knew this very well, and 'accidentally' let a couple of the large furnaces cool too much and/or too fast. It was a tricky way of enforcing their demands. Another way that customers pay for the union jerks.
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You are partly right.
The "unions did it to themselves" part is correct.
But the unions also did it to you and me, and personally, I don't want to take it any more. We have an intolerable situation now, and it needs to be addressed. I don't necessarily agree with the way Trump is addressing it, but I applaud him for the fact that he is addressing it. And I expect that in the long run, we will be better off for it.
That's well said. As a free market libertarian I am against protectionism on principle but that's assuming a fair playing field. U.S. manufacturing is hampered by regulations, minimum wage laws, high taxes, unions, etc., to the point we cannot compete. To be as big a nation as we are and we cannot make our own goods? There is something very wrong with that. Like you said, I'm not sure Trump's solutions are the right ones but at least he has brought the problem to the table. It needs to be addressed.
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That's well said. As a free market libertarian I am against protectionism on principle but that's assuming a fair playing field. U.S. manufacturing is hampered by regulations, minimum wage laws, high taxes, unions, etc., to the point we cannot compete. To be as big a nation as we are and we cannot make our own goods? There is something very wrong with that. Like you said, I'm not sure Trump's solutions are the right ones but at least he has brought the problem to the table. It needs to be addressed.
The problem is isn't just internal (regulations, minimum wage laws, high taxes, unions, etc). That is certainly a big part of the problem though.
The tariffs Trump is proposing aren't just protectionist. They are retaliatory. Every other country has virtually free access to our markets. It just ain't the same the other way. Tariffs and restrictions against the import of American products overseas has been the accepted norm for years. We have been the proverbial frog in the pot. People have whined that jobs and manufacturing are leaving the US for years and blamed lazy greedy unions and high taxes, but another big part of the problem is that it is so hard to sell our goods over there, it was necessary to move manufacturing over there to gain market access.
So the problem wasn't just one or the other. It was both situations. And Trump is attacking both situations. And while there may be a little pain at first, we will be greater for it.
Isn't that what Trump promised and why we elected him?
Struck out IS and changed to ISN"T, which was what I meant to say in the first place.
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The problem is just internal (regulations, minimum wage laws, high taxes, unions, etc). That is certainly a big part of the problem though.
The tariffs Trump is proposing aren't just protectionist. They are retaliatory. Every other country has virtually free access to our markets. It just ain't the same the other way. Tariffs and restrictions against the import of American products overseas has been the accepted norm for years. We have been the proverbial frog in the pot. People have whined that jobs and manufacturing are leaving the US for years and blamed lazy greedy unions and high taxes, but another big part of the problem is that it is so hard to sell our goods over there, it was necessary to move manufacturing over there to gain market access.
So the problem wasn't just one or the other. It was both situations. And Trump is attacking both situations. And while there may be a little pain at first, we will be greater for it.
Isn't that what Trump promised and why we elected him?
It is and if nothing else, Trump certainly is fulfilling his campaign promises to an extent I have never seen in my lifetime. It's almost like he's not even a politician.
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It is and if nothing else, Trump certainly is fulfilling his campaign promises to an extent I have never seen in my lifetime. It's almost like he's not even a politician.
He's definitely NOT a politician.
But I have to go back and edit my post. I said the problem IS just internal. I meant to say it "isn't" just internal.
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EU trade guru is coming to US for a meeting. Looks like he's going to take back a big fat new tariff with him. Trump is almost surely going to put a tariff on German cars.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/07/25/eu-preparing-20-billion-in-tariffs-on-us-goods-n2503530
To which the EU will retaliate. And we will up the ante again. We buy far more from them that we sell. We can tariff them right out of competition for the US market. Something I'm not advocating, but if Trump wants to be serious, he can do heavy damage to China and EU exports. EU is also now complaining that China is dumping steel there too. But wait! It's ok for China to dump steel in the US, but it's wrong if China does it to EU? Good luck explaining that to Trump in any way that makes sense.
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EU trade guru is coming to US for a meeting. Looks like he's going to take back a big fat new tariff with him. Trump is almost surely going to put a tariff on German cars.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/07/25/eu-preparing-20-billion-in-tariffs-on-us-goods-n2503530
To which the EU will retaliate. And we will up the ante again. We buy far more from them that we sell. We can tariff them right out of competition for the US market. Something I'm not advocating, but if Trump wants to be serious, he can do heavy damage to China and EU exports. EU is also now complaining that China is dumping steel there too. But wait! It's ok for China to dump steel in the US, but it's wrong if China does it to EU? Good luck explaining that to Trump in any way that makes sense.
What you should have said was that it is ok for both China AND EU to dump steel in the US, but we can't defend ourselves from those trade practices.
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Uh - ok.
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EU trade guru is coming to US for a meeting. Looks like he's going to take back a big fat new tariff with him. Trump is almost surely going to put a tariff on German cars.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/07/25/eu-preparing-20-billion-in-tariffs-on-us-goods-n2503530
To which the EU will retaliate. And we will up the ante again. We buy far more from them that we sell. We can tariff them right out of competition for the US market. Something I'm not advocating, but if Trump wants to be serious, he can do heavy damage to China and EU exports. EU is also now complaining that China is dumping steel there too. But wait! It's ok for China to dump steel in the US, but it's wrong if China does it to EU? Good luck explaining that to Trump in any way that makes sense.
Another scenario that could play out: The EU ambassador will come with a new trade proposal that will allow Trump to waive the tariffs and avert a trade war, in which case, the US will be better off. Remember, Europeans are much more practiced at surrendering than we are (except for recent history). But Trump is changing that.
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He's definitely NOT a politician.
But I have to go back and edit my post. I said the problem IS just internal. I meant to say it "isn't" just internal.
I knew what you meant to say. ;D
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Another scenario that could play out: The EU ambassador will come with a new trade proposal that will allow Trump to waive the tariffs and avert a trade war, in which case, the US will be better off. Remember, Europeans are much more practiced at surrendering than we are (except for recent history). But Trump is changing that.
It's not a done deal yet, and I don't want to say I told you so, but I did.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/politics/trump-juncker-tariffs-trade/index.html
Trump and top European leader agree to work toward zero tariffs
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Strong earnings and a "trade war" solution, wonder where the Dow will be tomorrow.
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Strong earnings and a "trade war" solution, wonder where the Dow will be tomorrow.
I much prefer a strong stock market when it is due to strong financial condition, than I do when it is due to Federal intervention (ie, QE n)
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It's not a done deal yet, and I don't want to say I told you so, but I did.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/politics/trump-juncker-tariffs-trade/index.html
Yeah I suspected it was another case of Trump starting from a strong position and negotiating down. I'm just loving loving loving LOVING having a President stand up for the U.S. for a change instead of a President apologizing to the world for our very existence.
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He's definitely NOT a politician.
I am reminded of that every time he opens his mouth and it gives me hope that America doesn't have to die by political ignorance.