PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Anthony on May 23, 2017, 09:53:06 AM
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Interesting dynamic here. I've been thinking why the Spin Zone, on POA was so active with "opposing" viewpoints, and have come to this theory. Liberal/progressives don't want to discuss topics because often their arguments are rooted in emotion, and not fact. Eventually, that comes out, and often they resort to accusations, name calling, or just throwing a hissy fit. I'm not saying the fine people here do that, but in general, I do think that happens.
So, on POA a liberal/progressive may come into the SZ, and do a quick hit and run on occasion, just well because they are there. Here we are much less likely to have these hit, and run visits, ala what AP used to do, I guess to make herself FEEL better. We saw what happened to some of the folks here after Trump won the election. They vanished. Do liberal/progressive just not take losing an election, or an argument well? Guess not.
Another thing, while I am on my little rant. Does anyone see the hypocrisy of participating in an avocation that requires independent thought, responsibility, and the burning of large amounts of fossil fuel all mostly for pure pleasure while promoting the liberal/progressive agenda, and voting Democrat? My head just has never been able to wrap itself around that one. I am on a few firearm related web forums, and there are a few of those on there also. They like the shooting sports, and even the element of being able to defend oneself, then vote for people who believe just the opposite, and reduce their rights or even take them away altogether.
I don't get it.
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Liberalism is the ultimate self indulgence for people FAR too lazy to actually do anything of substance.
As long as they pretend to be sensitive, or concerned, they then pat themselves on the back and go back to trashing the environment with their self centered lifestyles, while projecting their behavior onto republicans.
It's all about their egos.
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I've said it before in another thread, but there are some here who have resorted to name calling and consistently insulting others because they have opposing viewpoints. I wish Nudnik, Steingar and Jaybird would post more but when they're just insulted for having their opinions, I can understand why they wouldn't want to keep coming back. There's a distinct difference between arguing on the merits and just putting someone down because they don't have the same view as you.
There was a thread not too long ago that discussed this.
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My experience on very old political discussion boards is that liberals tend to lose interest quickly. I think it's because their delusions get challenged so often. Once they realize that conservatives' positions are built on logical values instead of emotional needs, they realize that not only will they never be able to convince them to join them, they also come to realize the futility of their own positions. It takes years and years to do this, but once they lose the interest, they fade away. It doesn't happen with everyone.
Just my experience, which dates back to pre-web, in the Usenet days.
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I've said it before in another thread, but there are some here who have resorted to name calling and consistently insulting others because they have opposing viewpoints. I wish Nudnik, Steingar and Jaybird would post more but when they're just insulted for having their opinions, I can understand why they wouldn't want to keep coming back. There's a distinct difference between arguing on the merits and just putting someone down because they don't have the same view as you.
There was a thread not too long ago that discussed this.
Steingar insults people, uses racism and constantly resorts to name calling.
Jaybird over played the race card to no end.
Nudnik left when it became obvious he was a bullshit artist making shit up to support his lame assertions.
Other liberals such as Kristen and Jeff ran away after the election because their "I told you so" wouldn't work.
I'm still waiting for a liberal that can hold a civil discussion and use actual facts.
And we wait.
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Maybe they get tired of the fact that a vocal subgroup of conservatives would rather discuss their psycho-analysis of liberals (e.g. this entire thread being an example) than whatever point the liberals are trying make?
;)
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"If you want to piss off a conservative, lie to him.
If you want to piss off a liberal progressive, tell him the truth".
Sums it up.
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Well I myself am guilty of hit and run posts and of vanishing completely. I've left the AOPA board several times, and my presence on the PoA board is spotty and inconsistent. But the reason I do it is not like what you say about liberals, because I lose an argument because it's based on emotion, not fact. When I vanish in the middle of a debate, it is because I spend a whole lot of time on a board, and any debate I get involved in, I can waste hours and hours, days even, and not get anything done in real life. So when topics get hot and I post some big rant, often I vanish because I have already wasted a whole work day making that big post and I don't want to waste the NEXT day or the one after that, sitting here on the internet neglecting my real life.
But it does seem like some liberals left because Trump won and/or they can't logically win against the conservatives/libertarians here. I myself wish they'd come back because I don't want the place to be just a big circle jerk agreeing with ourselves.
I hear you about the voting hypocrisy. One of my brothers is the exact example you cite. He's into firearms and keeps them to defend his family, but votes completely Democrat all the time. He isn't stupid, he knows Democrats are for gun control. I think it's not so much hypocrisy as prioritizing values. The Democrats stand for something that is more important to him than gun rights, and so it outweighs them in his mind. I do the same thing myself in reverse. I vote conservative but on some issues I side with the liberals. If you're a Libertarian, most of the time you have to be this way when the third party isn't a realistic option.
Another part of it is my brother gets all his information from mainstream media. When they (liberals) do not open their minds to other sources, and they live in a culture of liberalism with their friends and coworkers (and in my brother's case, his socialist wife), you get brainwashed. For example, I would think a lot of people if they listened to Sean Hannity for three hours every weekday for a month or two, would seriously begin to question their liberalism. But they absolutely will not consider it. So they get NO exposure to conservative ideas, whereas if you are a conservative, you cannot help but be exposed to liberal ideas all around you. Yes there is such a thing as rigid conservatives that shut themselves off from viewpoints other than their own. Maybe fundamentalist cults living in the wilderness. But in general, conservatives are far more widely exposed to multiple viewpoints than liberals.
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Maybe they get tired of the fact that a vocal subgroup of conservatives would rather discuss their psycho-analysis of liberals (e.g. this entire thread being an example) than whatever point the liberals are trying make?
;)
Guess I hit too close to home, huh?
;)
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OP tl;dr: "Why have the liberals left? It must be because they suck." ;D
Hah.
Only the truly thickest skinned, of any political persuasion, can regularly dive into discussion on a board that is almost completely members of the opposing party and designed for heated discussion.
Are any of you participating in the discussions at the DailyKos? No? I am forced to conclude that is because conservatives/wingers don't want to discuss topics because often their arguments are rooted in emotion, and not fact.
PS - Aviation is full of conservatives because it's full of old white guys.
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Guess I hit too close to home, huh?
;)
No - I consider myself a libertarian. Liberals believe in economic authoritarianism - yuck. But I don't care much about what motivates posters to post or not post. I certainly am not going to spend a lot of time pondering the validity of the opinion posted by conservatives (or by liberals) on why liberals (or conservatives) post as they do.
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No - I consider myself a libertarian. Liberals believe in economic authoritarianism - yuck. But I don't care much about what motivates posters to post or not post. I certainly am not going to spend a lot of time pondering the validity of the opinion posted by conservatives (or by liberals) on why liberals (or conservatives) post as they do.
But yet, here you are.......
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I find myself not posting because most of the times I do I find myself and my profession insulted. Moreover, I truly feel more like a gadfly than a valued contributor. I therefore bow out most f the time. I suspect that many of those with opposing points of view value the echo chamber far more than discussion.
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I find myself not posting because most of the times I do I find myself and my profession insulted. Moreover, I truly feel more like a gadfly than a valued contributor. I therefore bow out most f the time. I suspect that many of those with opposing points of view value the echo chamber far more than discussion.
Well you shouldn't be insulted, nor should your profession.
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Let's get real a moment here about Steingar and his "profession" being insulted. Most of the time he brings it upon himself.
It's no secret the good perfessor looks down at people around him as he proudly displays it.
He's welcome to keep playing the victim if he thinks that will give him a pass. Where he falls short in discussions is his reliance on democrat talking points rather than exercising any resemblance of critical thinking.
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I find myself not posting because most of the times I do I find myself and my profession insulted. Moreover, I truly feel more like a gadfly than a valued contributor. I therefore bow out most f the time. I suspect that many of those with opposing points of view value the echo chamber far more than discussion.
If I've said anything negative about academia I didn't mean to insult universities per se, just how they've become so liberal. My father was a Professor and I very nearly became one myself.
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
I posted over on PoA recently - does that count?
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
The difference is that DailyKos is a known liberal site. PilotSpin is not a conservative nor a liberal site, it's just a site open to political discussions. As it happens, the majority of posters happen to be more conservative.
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
No, I don't.
And I do give you a lot of credit for sticking around here, and I hope you stay.
But I don't participate in any other forums, political or otherwise. Before I sold my business I participated in several professional forums, and I still peruse some of them for old times sake.
Part of the reason may be that I just have a hard time discussing things with people that use "feelings" as proof or evidence.
And I also have a hard time discussing things with my liberal friends and family members that admittedly NEVER listen to conservative broadcasts or read anything from a conservative. If they see it by accident, they scoff at it and go on. If I bring it up, they scoff at me without any real factual data to back them up.
I do admit that you, Jim (who I firmly believe is a closet liberal) and a few others don't fit that mold. Even Steingar is willing to engage opposing viewpoints. I applaud that, and I am happy to have these discussions with you guys. But I can't carry on a discussion with an emotional and illogical screamer that refuses to hear both sides and who concludes that all conservatives are dumb, uncaring, racist, greedy and homophobic. My 90 yr old Father-In-Law is one of the biggest racists I know, yet he still accuses anyone that opposed Obama as being racist.
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
I don't typically participate in purely political websites. I prefer to participate in forums where I have something in common with the people there. Flying, and airplane ownership are very demanding, and I appreciate the views of others that have gone through this brain damage. I do also participate in a few Second Amendment oriented forums that discuss politics, rights, etc. as I am a gun owner, and proponent of 2A rights.
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The difference is that DailyKos is a known liberal site. PilotSpin is not a conservative nor a liberal site, it's just a site open to political discussions. As it happens, the majority of posters happen to be more conservative.
Uh, let's not kid ourselves. This is a political discussion site filled with conservatives. It was insinuated that there are few liberals here because they can't handle it and their arguments are weak. And yet, none of you appear to be engaging in discussion at sites filled with liberals. Can you not handle it? Are your arguments weak?
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Uh, let's not kid ourselves. This is a political discussion site filled with conservatives. It was insinuated that there are few liberals here because they can't handle it and their arguments are weak. And yet, none of you appear to be engaging in discussion at sites filled with liberals. Can you not handle it? Are your arguments weak?
My point remains. This site wasn't started as a conservative discussion forum, it just happened that the majority of regular posters here are more conservative minded. I want more people to post here in general, including more people with differing view points. Generally speaking, you're not likely to see people name calling here whereas if I posted over at DailyKos, I would likely be immediately insulted for daring to disagree with their narrative. But again, that's a known liberal site. PilotSpin wasn't started to be a conservative site.
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My point remains. This site wasn't started as a conservative discussion forum, it just happened that the majority of regular posters here are more conservative minded. I want more people to post here in general, including more people with differing view points. Generally speaking, you're not likely to see people name calling here whereas if I posted over at DailyKos, I would likely be immediately insulted for daring to disagree with their narrative. But again, that's a known liberal site. PilotSpin wasn't started to be a conservative site.
My thoughts exactly. Nobody mandates this site to be conservative leaning. As a group, it seems, pilots/aircraft owners are more conservative by nature. We are responsible individuals, we pay for things, and we accept being held accountable for our actions. Plus we burn 100LL, and/or Jet A. By contrast, many liberal/progressives (not all, mind you) blame everyone else for their circumstances, have a victim mentality, and often think the USA is a empire that enjoys taking advantage of others, and exploiting them.
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OP tl;dr: "Why have the liberals left? It must be because they suck." ;D
Hah.
Only the truly thickest skinned, of any political persuasion, can regularly dive into discussion on a board that is almost completely members of the opposing party and designed for heated discussion.
Are any of you participating in the discussions at the DailyKos? No? I am forced to conclude that is because conservatives/wingers don't want to discuss topics because often their arguments are rooted in emotion, and not fact.
PS - Aviation is full of conservatives because it's full of old white guys.
How timely... When a liberal loses an argument on merits, they - like you just did - almost always resort to racism accusations.
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My point remains. This site wasn't started as a conservative discussion forum, it just happened that the majority of regular posters here are more conservative minded. I want more people to post here in general, including more people with differing view points. Generally speaking, you're not likely to see people name calling here whereas if I posted over at DailyKos, I would likely be immediately insulted for daring to disagree with their narrative. But again, that's a known liberal site. PilotSpin wasn't started to be a conservative site.
It's not clear to me why you're making this point, which I don't disagree with.
Do you not find it interesting that a bunch of people on this forum are lambasting Liberals for failing to engage in discussion and suggesting that it is because their arguments are weak and based on emotion, while at the same time they fail to engage in discussion at sites filled with Liberals? If A, then B. But you are all the exception?
This is the problem with the echo chamber. Over time, you begin to believe your political opponents are not like you. They're wrong. Their arguments are baseless. How could they believe what they do? Are they stupid? It is so easy to devalue your opponents, but it is usually a poor way to consider and argue against their views.
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How timely... When a liberal loses an argument on merits, they - like you just did - almost always resort to racism accusations.
I haven't lost. I am white. Aviation IS filled with old white guys. Old white guys statistically trend Conservative. This is not racist.
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I haven't lost. I am white. Aviation IS filled with old white guys. Old white guys statistically trend Conservative. This is not racist.
When cornered by their racism, progressives ALWAYS claim their behavior is not racist.
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Do you not find it interesting that a bunch of people on this forum are lambasting Liberals for failing to engage in discussion and suggesting that it is because their arguments are weak and based on emotion, while at the same time they fail to engage in discussion at sites filled with Liberals?
Two points.
1. Why should we have to engage with people on sites that are purposely liberal/progressive? It has already been stated that this site was not started, nor designed to be either conservative, or liberal. I have no problem addressing liberal/progressives, nor debating their arguments.
2. Which liberal/progressive concepts are not based mostly on feelings, and emotion with thought given to the unintended consequences?
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It's not clear to me why you're making this point, which I don't disagree with.
Do you not find it interesting that a bunch of people on this forum are lambasting Liberals for failing to engage in discussion and suggesting that it is because their arguments are weak and based on emotion, while at the same time they fail to engage in discussion at sites filled with Liberals? If A, then B. But you are all the exception?
This is the problem with the echo chamber. Over time, you begin to believe your political opponents are not like you. They're wrong. Their arguments are baseless. How could they believe what they do? Are they stupid? It is so easy to devalue your opponents, but it is usually a poor way to consider and argue against their views.
I'm making the point because you keep asking why we won't post over at the DailyKos. You're trying to equate PilotSpin being a conservative forum (which it's not) with a liberal website/forum. PilotSpin wasn't started to be a conservative forum, it just happens that a majority of posters are conservative. DailyKos was absolutely started to be a liberal website/forum. In this case, A is not equal to B.
Further, I do not want PilotSpin to be an echo chamber, though I'll grant you that at times it does come across as such due to the majority of active posters being conservative leaning. I also have not said that you are stupid nor am I trying to devalue your arguments. On the contrary, I appreciate your input because even though I may not agree, it gives me another perspective to consider.
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Two points.
1. Why should we have to engage with people on sites that are purposely liberal/progressive? It has already been stated that this site was not started, nor designed to be either conservative, or liberal.
You don't have to. But at least be consistent in your reasoning processes. Do you FAIL to engage in discussion on liberal-dominate sites because your arguments are weak and based on emotion? Then why do you come to that conclusion about others?
2. Which liberal/progressive concepts are not based mostly on feelings, and emotion with thought given to the unintended consequences?
Don't have time for that, sorry. It's a loaded question, anyway, and it appears you've already made up your mind.
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I'm making the point because you keep asking why we won't post over at the DailyKos. You're trying to equate PilotSpin being a conservative forum (which it's not) with a liberal website/forum. PilotSpin wasn't started to be a conservative forum, it just happens that a majority of posters are conservative. DailyKos was absolutely started to be a liberal website/forum. In this case, A is not equal to B.
Further, I do not want PilotSpin to be an echo chamber, though I'll grant you that at times it does come across as such due to the majority of active posters being conservative leaning. I also have not said that you are stupid nor am I trying to devalue your arguments. On the contrary, I appreciate your input because even though I may not agree, it gives me another perspective to consider.
I appreciate your posts, too. You're missing my point. It's about consistent reasoning processes.
You guys do not engage in political discussion on sites filled with Liberals. Why is that? Unless it is because your arguments are weak and based on emotion, why would you (the general "you") come to the conclusion that it is this way for others?
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You don't have to. But at least be consistent in your reasoning processes. Do you FAIL to engage in discussion on liberal-dominate sites because your arguments are weak and based on emotion? Then why do you come to that conclusion about others?
I do not purposely seek out sites that lean one way or another politically. I seek out sites in which I have an interest in the subject matter. Flying, the outdoors, shooting sports, bicycling, etc. That being said, I do occasionally post and debate on our local newspaper's website, which is very, very liberal/progressive, and do debate folks there, and I am certainly in the minority. They typically run 2 - 4 anti Trump articles per day, which never seem to be based on fact5s, but conjecture. Often they are Washpo, or AP re-prints.
Don't have time for that, sorry. It's a loaded question, anyway, and it appears you've already made up your mind.
OK, no problem. Yes, I do believe many policies enacted, and promoted by liberal/progressives are both based on emotion, and often designed by their leadership to gain power, budgets, and grow government. The "do gooders" get deceived by these power/money hungry Dems, sometimes community organizer types, into thinking more taxes, and more government will actually help the situation.
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I appreciate your posts, too. You're missing my point. It's about consistent reasoning processes.
You guys do not engage in political discussion on sites filled with Liberals. Why is that? Unless it is because your arguments are weak and based on emotion, why would you (the general "you") come to the conclusion that it is this way for others?
I'm not missing your point, I just think you're trying to create a false equivalency argument. You're asking why we won't go and post on DailyKos, or other liberal sites, implying that this is a conservative site. Again, this site was not created to be of any one political leaning, it just ended up with the majority of posters being conservative.
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Jim (who I firmly believe is a closet liberal)
<Pulls off white glove, slaps Little Joe across the face with it.>
"Sir, my good name has been impugned! I challenge you to a duel! Send around your seconds."
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Liberals are always stunned when they realize that conservatives are not just old white guys but run the gambit of ethnic backgrounds including those who are considered non-white. As always liberal premises are never close to reality.
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<Pulls off white glove, slaps Little Joe across the face with it.>
"Sir, my good name has been impugned! I challenge you to a duel! Send around your seconds."
A white glove? I knew you were a racist liberal!
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The difference is that DailyKos is a known liberal site. PilotSpin is not a conservative nor a liberal site, it's just a site open to political discussions. As it happens, the majority of posters happen to be more conservative.
Because conservatives are intensely disliked by certain mods on PoA.
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Liberals are always stunned when they realize that conservatives are not just old white guys but run the gambit of ethnic backgrounds including those who are considered non-white. As always liberal premises are never close to reality.
Conservatives are always stunned to learn that liberals are not just emotional basket cases with weak arguments not rooted in fact. They are also stunned to learn of their own hypocrisy when it is pointed out that they fail to engage in the very thing for which they are lambasting their opponents.
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Conservatives are always stunned to learn that liberals are not just emotional basket cases . . .
Now that is stunning! Can you provide any citations?
;)
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Now that is stunning! Can you provide any citations?
;)
Yes!
;D
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Conservatives are always stunned to learn that liberals are not just emotional basket cases with weak arguments not rooted in fact. They are also stunned to learn of their own hypocrisy when it is pointed out that they fail to engage in the very thing for which they are lambasting their opponents.
Obfuscatory, unless you're going for a laugh!
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Conservatives are always stunned to learn that liberals are not just emotional basket cases with weak arguments not rooted in fact. They are also stunned to learn of their own hypocrisy when it is pointed out that they fail to engage in the very thing for which they are lambasting their opponents.
Liberalism is 100% rooted in emotion.
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Liberalism is 100% rooted in emotion.
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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Obfuscatory, unless you're going for a laugh!
I think you meant to quote PaulS. No worries, we all make mistakes.
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Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Conservatism is an early sign of senility.
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I think you meant to quote PaulS. No worries, we all make mistakes.
Delusional too, lol.
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Conservatism is an early sign of senility.
True, conservatism as associated with a sooner onset of senility, because people tend to move toward conservatism with age, as opposed to the reverse. But association is not the same thing as causation. It is also true that wisdom is associated with older age, and therefore you could say greater wisdom is an early sign of senility. Again, association, not causation. The hidden third factor is simple age.
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Our daughter is a wild-eyed progressive. She instantly recites the current talking point but if you ask her a simple question she resorts to anger, tears and then evil behavior to cover up the fact that she has - literally - never given the topic a serious thought.
She was screeching about Trump's sexist and racist past one night. She claimed he was the KKK in the White House and I simply asked to point out one single instance of racist behavior on his part.
After the stupid, blank stare, followed by babbling about Trump is racist, sexist and evil, she screamed out, "He wants to build a fucking wall!!!!!"
So I showed her examples of other administrations wall building efforts and then googled for her Bill Clinton and Hilary's comments on things like marriage and national security, which sounded exactly like conservatives and she sat stunned until she could build up enough rage to start crying - again - and turn her venom on me for being "just like that fucking trump."
Liberals, as a general observation, have zero credibility in any argument because they tend to be emotional basket cases, absent a scintilla of thoughtful study and intelligent curiosity.
When they can't win on babbling stupidity, they think tears and then violent rhetoric will solve it all.
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Our daughter is a wild-eyed progressive. She instantly recites the current talking point but if you ask her a simple question she resorts to anger, tears and then evil behavior to cover up the fact that she has - literally - never given the topic a serious thought.
She was screeching about Trump's sexist and racist past one night. She claimed he was the KKK in the White House and I simply asked to point out one single instance of racist behavior on his part.
After the stupid, blank stare, followed by babbling about Trump is racist, sexist and evil, she screamed out, "He wants to build a fucking wall!!!!!"
So I showed her examples of other administrations wall building efforts and then googled for her Bill Clinton and Hilary's comments on things like marriage and national security, which sounded exactly like conservatives and she sat stunned until she could build up enough rage to start crying - again - and turn her venom on me for being "just like that fucking trump."
Liberals, as a general observation, have zero credibility in any argument because they tend to be emotional basket cases, absent a scintilla of thoughtful study and intelligent curiosity.
When they can't win on babbling stupidity, they think tears and then violent rhetoric will solve it all.
I love my wife. She is super smart and a hard worker. But she is a lot like your daughter. So I do my best to avoid talk about politics with her.
It doesn't matter what he says or does or what I say about him. He said "pussy" a decade ago and he is forever evil.
I read that the last election has led t more divorces than any other election in history. I thoroughly believe that.
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Oddly, I consider myself a conservative as does almost everyone who knows me personally. Yet here, I'm an egg-sucking liberal. I don't really care about how I'm labeled though. What keeps me from frequenting this forum are the same things that caused the original SZ's demise. That opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed. There is no witty banter or humor in counterpoints. It's very aggressive and not enjoyable.
My best friend in college and I were very much opposites. He's very liberal and I'm somewhat conservative, yet we had a fun game we'd play without having ever said a word to each other about it. We would frequently play devil's advocate, taking the view the other would normally have, and we'd have fun doing it. One example I vividly recall 30 years later is when he said no one should be allowed to make over $5M/year because no one needs more than that. I agreed and started making points in his favor. He then took the side of why it's an asinine idea that would rob the world of initiative or rewarding those for going above and beyond or being absurdly creative. Not that it ever changed our beliefs, but it was an excellent fun tool to make you think.
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Oddly, I consider myself a conservative as does almost everyone who knows me personally. Yet here, I'm an egg-sucking liberal. I don't really care about how I'm labeled though. What keeps me from frequenting this forum are the same things that caused the original SZ's demise. That opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed. There is no witty banter or humor in counterpoints. It's very aggressive and not enjoyable.
My best friend in college and I were very much opposites. He's very liberal and I'm somewhat conservative, yet we had a fun game we'd play without having ever said a word to each other about it. We would frequently play devil's advocate, taking the view the other would normally have, and we'd have fun doing it. One example I vividly recall 30 years later is when he said no one should be allowed to make over $5M/year because no one needs more than that. I agreed and started making points in his favor. He then took the side of why it's an asinine idea that would rob the world of initiative or rewarding those for going above and beyond or being absurdly creative. Not that it ever changed our beliefs, but it was an excellent fun tool to make you think.
Guess you were never in the SZ when Reverend Slappy was there along with Scott Migaldi, William Barnhill and Elizabeth Anderson. They would berate you for simply disagreeing with them.For whatever reason they left and went over to the equivalent on the Purple Board. I think they since left there also.
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Oddly, I consider myself a conservative as does almost everyone who knows me personally. Yet here, I'm an egg-sucking liberal. I don't really care about how I'm labeled though. What keeps me from frequenting this forum are the same things that caused the original SZ's demise. That opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed. There is no witty banter or humor in counterpoints. It's very aggressive and not enjoyable.
Others have noticed this and tried to call it out as well. Steingar has said that's also why he posts less. I don't want an echo chamber here so I would encourage you to continue to post and call out those who insult and demean you for having a differing viewpoint.
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My question remains: how many of you participate in discussions at DailyKos or other liberal controlled discussion sites?
DailyKos is not a discussion site, it is a leftist media site. I tend to avoid media sites discussions left, right or (hah) center....would that I could find a centrist news site. DailyKos seems especially bad and isn't worth the time to break down the assumptions in their stories.
I am not aware of any BBS that is dominated by the left because as I've stated before, I don't believe the left can support their positions with anything more than their opinion. They are not built on a solid foundation, so as soon a lot of people start poking holes in it, it all comes apart. Additionally, the left tends to attack the person, not the idea. I think it's because they have never thought through their ideas vs their values...because if they did, they would more conservative.
I'm squarely a moderate, with a sight right lean. On a 100 point scale, multiple political alignment tests place me at 50-53. I was undecided until late in the last election.
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True, conservatism as associated with a sooner onset of senility, because people tend to move toward conservatism with age, as opposed to the reverse. But association is not the same thing as causation. It is also true that wisdom is associated with older age, and therefore you could say greater wisdom is an early sign of senility. Again, association, not causation. The hidden third factor is simple age.
Did you think I was serious?
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DailyKos is not a discussion site, it is a leftist media site. I tend to avoid media sites discussions left, right or (hah) center....would that I could find a centrist news site. DailyKos seems especially bad and isn't worth the time to break down the assumptions in their stories.
I am not aware of any BBS that is dominated by the left because as I've stated before, I don't believe the left can support their positions with anything more than their opinion. They are not built on a solid foundation, so as soon a lot of people start poking holes in it, it all comes apart. Additionally, the left tends to attack the person, not the idea. I think it's because they have never thought through their ideas vs their values...because if they did, they would more conservative.
I'm squarely a moderate, with a sight right lean. On a 100 point scale, multiple political alignment tests place me at 50-53. I was undecided until late in the last election.
You are not aware of the ones dominated by liberals because you're not aware of them, not because they don't exist. And there is plenty of discussion to be had at DailyKos. A large part of the site is user generated content with associated discussion in the comments of each. Head on over.
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You are not aware of the ones dominated by liberals because you're not aware of them, not because they don't exist. And there is plenty of discussion to be had at DailyKos. A large part of the site is user generated content with associated discussion in the comments of each. Head on over.
I just wasted about 30 minutes of my life reading comments on daily kos. I have never read so much hysterical histrionics (is that redundant; if so, it deserved it). There was nothing of substance I could reply to. It was all OMG! He is FAT! His tie is too long. I miss Obama. I'm embarrassed about him.
How do you argue with someone that doesn't actually say anything.
And the articles were not even subtle in their cockeyed spin. They complained because he acknowledged that after 9/11 NATO came to the defense of the US. (the first time Article 5 had been called on). All I read was vitriol and convoluted accusations. There was not ONE comment that I could "like" or agree with. And I couldn't even figure out where to begin to reply.
I won't be going back.
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Guess you were never in the SZ when Reverend Slappy was there along with Scott Migaldi, William Barnhill and Elizabeth Anderson. They would berate you for simply disagreeing with them.For whatever reason they left and went over to the equivalent on the Purple Board. I think they since left there also.
Slappy was pretty bad, which is why he got chased off. A pity, he knew everything there was to know about taxes, or at least a great deal. Everything he said that I investigated checked out. Something I really miss about the Spin Zone on POA is I learned a lot. There was a lawyer who is now on the Federal bench who would go on about the law, it was such a pleasure to read. Scott traveled all over the world, he has the wildest stories (I've met him in person, he's a really nice man). Don't recall Liz too very well.
Another fun thing was one of our most vocal nemeses was convicted of some really nasty business and spent time as a guest of our penitentiary system.
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Slappy was pretty bad, which is why he got chased off. A pity, he knew everything there was to know about taxes, or at least a great deal. Everything he said that I investigated checked out. Something I really miss about the Spin Zone on POA is I learned a lot. There was a lawyer who is now on the Federal bench who would go on about the law, it was such a pleasure to read. Scott traveled all over the world, he has the wildest stories (I've met him in person, he's a really nice man). Don't recall Liz too very well.
Another fun thing was one of our most vocal nemeses was convicted of some really nasty business and spent time as a guest of our penitentiary system.
David is the lawyer turned Judge. Very level headed with a bit of a libertarian bent. My wife and I have dinner with Scott and his wife whenever we go up to visit my sister. He lives near her.
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David is the lawyer turned Judge. Very level headed with a bit of a libertarian bent. My wife and I have dinner with Scott and his wife whenever we go up to visit my sister. He lives near her.
Always wanted to meet him, he seemed like a seriously bright guy. I was unsurprised to learn of his ascension to the bench. I only met Scott once, but I thought he was the nicest guy. Never met his SO, but perhaps I will when I take Mrs. Steingar to the Windy City.
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Did you think I was serious?
No not really. But I took it and ran anyway. Just to add posts to the forum.
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No not really. But I took it and ran anyway. Just to add posts to the forum.
Fair enough! Is association equivalent to correlation?
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Fair enough! Is association equivalent to correlation?
They are much closer than correlation is to causation, which is a mainstay of liberals like Harry Reid.
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Our daughter is a wild-eyed progressive. She instantly recites the current talking point but if you ask her a simple question she resorts to anger, tears and then evil behavior to cover up the fact that she has - literally - never given the topic a serious thought.
She was screeching about Trump's sexist and racist past one night. She claimed he was the KKK in the White House and I simply asked to point out one single instance of racist behavior on his part.
After the stupid, blank stare, followed by babbling about Trump is racist, sexist and evil, she screamed out, "He wants to build a fucking wall!!!!!"
So I showed her examples of other administrations wall building efforts and then googled for her Bill Clinton and Hilary's comments on things like marriage and national security, which sounded exactly like conservatives and she sat stunned until she could build up enough rage to start crying - again - and turn her venom on me for being "just like that fucking trump."
Liberals, as a general observation, have zero credibility in any argument because they tend to be emotional basket cases, absent a scintilla of thoughtful study and intelligent curiosity.
When they can't win on babbling stupidity, they think tears and then violent rhetoric will solve it all.
Condolences. I was beginning to worry about our eldest (29) during the election. She refused to discuss it and furthermore, she shut down anyone else talking about it who was in the room. You couldn't have a conversation that touched on politics at all. I asked her who she was going to vote for and she said something like "none of your business" and changed the subject to the weather. And on Facebook I've noticed her "liking" pages that lean feminist. When she moved away from home at age 18 she was pretty much aligned with our (me and her Dad) politics, and we haven't had much discussion about it since, so I began to wonder if she got in with a bunch of liberal friends or coworkers that had turned her. Her husband is also conservative/libertarian, and he said, "yeah she won't talk about it, not even with me, ever. I'm forbidden to even bring up the subject." All through the campaign it was verboten to discuss what was all over the news in her presence.
Finally after the election was over with I was visiting and got her alone and said, "Your Dad and I are wondering if you have (*GASP*) turned into a liberal?" She said, "Hell no!" I said, "well what are you these days?" and she said, "pretty much what I've always been, a fiscally conservative libertarian." So I said, "then how come you won't talk about politics at all with anyone?" and she said it was because the debating upset her. She doesn't like confrontation. The feminist sites she "likes" are simply ones promoting women in careers, nothing extreme or anti-male.
So I guess the way we raised her "took" after all. But not everyone likes to talk politics.
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Condolences. I was beginning to worry about our eldest (29) during the election. She refused to discuss it and furthermore, she shut down anyone else talking about it who was in the room. You couldn't have a conversation that touched on politics at all. I asked her who she was going to vote for and she said something like "none of your business" and changed the subject to the weather. And on Facebook I've noticed her "liking" pages that lean feminist. When she moved away from home at age 18 she was pretty much aligned with our (me and her Dad) politics, and we haven't had much discussion about it since, so I began to wonder if she got in with a bunch of liberal friends or coworkers that had turned her. Her husband is also conservative/libertarian, and he said, "yeah she won't talk about it, not even with me, ever. I'm forbidden to even bring up the subject." All through the campaign it was verboten to discuss what was all over the news in her presence.
Finally after the election was over with I was visiting and got her alone and said, "Your Dad and I are wondering if you have (*GASP*) turned into a liberal?" She said, "Hell no!" I said, "well what are you these days?" and she said, "pretty much what I've always been, a fiscally conservative libertarian." So I said, "then how come you won't talk about politics at all with anyone?" and she said it was because the debating upset her. She doesn't like confrontation. The feminist sites she "likes" are simply ones promoting women in careers, nothing extreme or anti-male.
So I guess the way we raised her "took" after all. But not everyone likes to talk politics.
I have often wondered how a "feminist" is different than a "racist".
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I have often wondered how a "feminist" is different than a "racist".
Second wave feminism, or classic liberal feminism, is the type of feminism that's more tolerated by everyone than the current third wave feminism. The latter being what you see predominately everywhere that demands "equality" which in reality isn't equality but rather submission to their viewpoints, much in the same way as progressivism.
Christina Hoff Sommers is a second wave feminist and is pretty well respected. I disagree with her on quite a bit but she at least stands up and calls out the modern feminists and takes them on.
https://www.aei.org/scholar/christina-hoff-sommers/
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Condolences. I was beginning to worry about our eldest (29) during the election. She refused to discuss it and furthermore, she shut down anyone else talking about it who was in the room. You couldn't have a conversation that touched on politics at all. I asked her who she was going to vote for and she said something like "none of your business" and changed the subject to the weather. And on Facebook I've noticed her "liking" pages that lean feminist. When she moved away from home at age 18 she was pretty much aligned with our (me and her Dad) politics, and we haven't had much discussion about it since, so I began to wonder if she got in with a bunch of liberal friends or coworkers that had turned her. Her husband is also conservative/libertarian, and he said, "yeah she won't talk about it, not even with me, ever. I'm forbidden to even bring up the subject." All through the campaign it was verboten to discuss what was all over the news in her presence.
Finally after the election was over with I was visiting and got her alone and said, "Your Dad and I are wondering if you have (*GASP*) turned into a liberal?" She said, "Hell no!" I said, "well what are you these days?" and she said, "pretty much what I've always been, a fiscally conservative libertarian." So I said, "then how come you won't talk about politics at all with anyone?" and she said it was because the debating upset her. She doesn't like confrontation. The feminist sites she "likes" are simply ones promoting women in careers, nothing extreme or anti-male.
So I guess the way we raised her "took" after all. But not everyone likes to talk politics.
We have serious discussioms about oil production versus oil purchasing, inflation as an inhibitor of jobs and the escalating damage to the economy of business toxic regulation around the dinner table and our daughter hears a single trigger word and goes off like an idiot.
When I patiently explain the details all she can do is spout talking points and that Trump is racist and sexist.
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We have serious discussioms about oil production versus oil purchasing, inflation as an inhibitor of jobs and the escalating damage to the economy of business toxic regulation around the dinner table and our daughter hears a single trigger word and goes off like an idiot.
When I patiently explain the details all she can do is spout talking points and that Trump is racist and sexist.
Well I had a similar issue with my niece before the election. She was so focused on being shocked that Trump talked dirty about women and once "grabbed" one downstairs, that you couldn't reason with her on matters of economics, job creation, etc. It's really frustrating. I guess part of it is they are too young to process the really important stuff. They get emotional about something and then get blinders, can't see anything else. :-[
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Always wanted to meet him, he seemed like a seriously bright guy. I was unsurprised to learn of his ascension to the bench. I only met Scott once, but I thought he was the nicest guy. Never met his SO, but perhaps I will when I take Mrs. Steingar to the Windy City.
I hope you get the chance Karen is a very nice person, as is Scott. No doubt we do not see eye to eye on political things, it doesn't keep us from enjoying a dinner together.
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I hope you get the chance Karen is a very nice person, as is Scott. No doubt we do not see eye to eye on political things, it doesn't keep us from enjoying a dinner together.
Politics can be fun to banter, especially if there are good ideas. But at the end of things we're all pilots, and that's a bigger deal than politics. Hell, I even had a good time meeting you.
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Politics can be fun to banter, especially if there are good ideas. But at the end of things we're all pilots, and that's a bigger deal than politics. Hell, I even had a good time meeting you.
I haven't seen Grant post about a dinner at OSH yet for this year.
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Well I had a similar issue with my niece before the election. She was so focused on being shocked that Trump talked dirty about women and once "grabbed" one downstairs, that you couldn't reason with her on matters of economics, job creation, etc. It's really frustrating. I guess part of it is they are too young to process the really important stuff. They get emotional about something and then get blinders, can't see anything else. :-[
As far as anyone knows, Trump never grabbed anyone.
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As far as anyone knows, Trump never grabbed anyone.
Yep.
But the MSM had people believing he was a serial rapist while their preferred candidate HRC had a husband that actually was.
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As far as anyone knows, Trump never grabbed anyone.
That is true, but we all know Bill Clinton grabbed one, or probably several, but that is OK to the Dems, and media. Then again, he has to deal with Hillary, so.........
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Oddly, when I show our daughter proof of Bill Clinton's sexual assault/harrassment and his impeachment for lying under oath about using the government to deny Paula Jones her right to a fair hearing, she closes down like Rosie O'Donnell at a weight watchers meeting. There is no processing of inconvenient facts with young progressive airheads.
When I showed her the video of the black women that spoke at the GOP convention who runs Trump Enterprises, she immediately recoiled and accused him of hiring her - over twenty years ago - just to have a 'token' black women to trot out and counter his racist activities.
The hypocrisy of modern democrats is off the scale in modern history. Maybe the Romans pretending Julius Caesar was a god is capable of being held up as an example but I'm not even sure of that.
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The desire to defensively hold on to your beliefs in the face of contrary facts is a common human fault. It's not specific to Liberals, nor is it specific to politics. It takes maturity, humility, and a number of other things to admit you've been wrong or an element of your belief system is wrong. It sounds like your daughter isn't there yet. Some folks never get there, some folks partially get there, and we're all guilty of it.
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The hypocrisy of modern democrats is off the scale in modern history. Maybe the Romans pretending Julius Caesar was a god is capable of being held up as an example but I'm not even sure of that.
Sounds better than pretending there's a magical dude in heaven! I mean, at least Julius Caesar was actually there in front of them.
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Sounds better than pretending there's a magical dude in heaven! I mean, at least Julius Caesar was actually there in front of them.
Well, when one ponders how the universe was created, possibly out of "nothing", and that we as humans may not have knowledge, nor comprehend another "set of rules", then maybe that is how you explain it.
I am not a very religious person, yet I do believe in the possibility of "God", or at least something else that I do not understand, nor which I have proof. Too cerebral for a Friday, I know!
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Well, when one ponders how the universe was created, possibly out of "nothing", and that we as humans may not have knowledge, nor comprehend of another "set of rules", then maybe that is how you explain it.
I am not a very religious person, yet I do believe in the possibility of "God", or at least something else that I do not understand, nor which I have proof. Too cerebral for a Friday, I know!
I, too, believe in the possibility of God.
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Sounds better than pretending there's a magical dude in heaven! I mean, at least Julius Caesar was actually there in front of them.
Cute. Counter with bigotry. How liberal of you. Why are liberals so often racist AND bigoted?
Why are liberals so willing to accuse others of racism and bigotry while engaged in racism and bigotry?
Liberalism: It's the ultimate hypocrisy.
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Cute. Counter with bigotry. How liberal of you. Why are liberals so often racist AND bigoted?
Why are liberals so willing to accuse others of racism and bigotry while engaged in racism and bigotry?
Liberalism: It's the ultimate hypocrisy.
You sound like a liberal, what with your constant cries of bigotry and racism. Poor thing.
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The desire to defensively hold on to your beliefs in the face of contrary facts is a common human fault.
Actually, it's not. The desire be a part of the tribe and to comply with how the tribe does things is a common human trait. People don't fail to change their beliefs because in the face of contrary facts, they fail to do it because the facts are not trustworthy and fly in the face of how their tribe behaves. There is an important difference.
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Actually, it's not. The desire be a part of the tribe and to comply with how the tribe does things is a common human trait. People don't fail to change their beliefs because in the face of contrary facts, they fail to do it because the facts are not trustworthy and fly in the face of how their tribe behaves. There is an important difference.
As usual, you speak with an authority that you do not have. Plenty of reading to do if you'd like, and they believe many factors are involved, not just groupthink.
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As far as anyone knows, Trump never grabbed anyone.
You're right, he only bantered about grabbing a woman, there's no evidence he actually did it.
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You're right, he only bantered about grabbing a woman, there's no evidence he actually did it.
On the other hand, he probably has grabbed a woman. Who on this board hasn't?
Ok, "grabbed" might not be the right word for what I am trying to say, but there is always going to be some touching between the sexes, or even within the sexes. Otherwise, how did we get to 7 billion people?
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The desire to defensively hold on to your beliefs in the face of contrary facts is a common human fault. It's not specific to Liberals, nor is it specific to politics. It takes maturity, humility, and a number of other things to admit you've been wrong or an element of your belief system is wrong. It sounds like your daughter isn't there yet. Some folks never get there, some folks partially get there, and we're all guilty of it.
Actually, it's not. The desire be a part of the tribe and to comply with how the tribe does things is a common human trait. People don't fail to change their beliefs because in the face of contrary facts, they fail to do it because the facts are not trustworthy and fly in the face of how their tribe behaves. There is an important difference.
You're both wrong. Or actually both equally correct. Underlying both your statements is that people are loyal to their own ego. Therefore asechrest, you're right it takes humility to change, and bflynn you are correct that people endeavor to belong to their "tribe". But either way at core it boils down to protecting your own ego in the face of how you appear to others. That most people deny this so vehemently convinces me all the more that it's true.
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Interesting dynamic here. I've been thinking why the Spin Zone, on POA was so active with "opposing" viewpoints, and have come to this theory. Liberal/progressives don't want to discuss topics because often their arguments are rooted in emotion, and not fact. Eventually, that comes out, and often they resort to accusations, name calling, or just throwing a hissy fit. I'm not saying the fine people here do that, but in general, I do think that happens.
Been away for a bit, Cherokee annual, some business travel, personal travel and parental care. Read a lot, didn't post much - not sure why, maybe time, lack of interest or political turmoil overload. Pretty broad brush there, see bolded part. Some truth to the fact that the left (particularly the far left) tend to use emotion more often. That being said, IMHO, the right (particularly the far right), tend to use ideology more often. Who invented alt-facts? We have a few here that are more centrist to left leaning that are certainly capable of a factual arguement.
So, on POA a liberal/progressive may come into the SZ, and do a quick hit and run on occasion, just well because they are there. Here we are much less likely to have these hit, and run visits, ala what AP used to do, I guess to make herself FEEL better. We saw what happened to some of the folks here after Trump won the election. They vanished. Do liberal/progressive just not take losing an election, or an argument well? Guess not.
Well... the POA SZ (may it rest in peace) had a much larger audience than here in Pilot Spin. Would not be surprised of the POA SZ had well more than 200 participants , here, we have maybe 50?? People move in and out of political webboards all the time. There is a board for any political flavor you would like, maybe some just found other places that had greater interest to them.
Another thing, while I am on my little rant. Does anyone see the hypocrisy of participating in an avocation that requires independent thought, responsibility, and the burning of large amounts of fossil fuel all mostly for pure pleasure while promoting the liberal/progressive agenda, and voting Democrat? My head just has never been able to wrap itself around that one. I am on a few firearm related web forums, and there are a few of those on there also. They like the shooting sports, and even the element of being able to defend oneself, then vote for people who believe just the opposite, and reduce their rights or even take them away altogether.
I don't get it.
Not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that if I fly an airplane, I cannot still practice other actions that are generally good for the environment or have political views that favor the liberal side of the aisle? I don't see how those are diametrically opposed.
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Welcome back Gary. Sorry about the "parental care" issues, but thankfully you were there for them. Hope all is well.
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Welcome back, Gary! Glad to see you back around.
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Welcome back Gary. Sorry about the "parental care" issues, but thankfully you were there for them. Hope all is well.
Appreciate it, getting old ain't no fun.
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Appreciate it, getting old ain't no fun.
No, it sucks. Also sucks to deal with your own age related problems while still dealing with your even older parents. Seeing your own future. :(
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Appreciate it, getting old ain't no fun.
As much as I hate cliché, it certainly beats the alternative.
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You sound like a liberal, what with your constant cries of bigotry and racism. Poor thing.
Funny how a liberal almost always projects their own faults onto those who point out their faults.
Good projection. Bad outcome.
Bigot.
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As much as I hate cliché, it certainly beats the alternative.
I usually agree with that. But I have seen too many instances where people were forced to live in extreme pain and discomfort far longer than they wished. I want the right to determine when my time is up.
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...and progressives want the right to decide that for everyone.
It started with abortion, moved right on to euthanasia.
Remember Terri Schiavo?
Right on cue progressives started to chant that the government should seize the right to unplug the elderly and disabled.
The sickness that is liberalism will continue without abatement as long otherwise intelligent people remain silent, for fear of being ostracized, and idiots go along because they are stupid.
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...and progressives want the right to decide that for everyone.
It started with abortion, moved right on to euthanasia.
Remember Terri Schiavo?
Right on cue progressives started to chant that the government should seize the right to unplug the elderly and disabled.
The sickness that is liberalism will continue without abatement as long otherwise intelligent people remain silent, for fear of being ostracized, and idiots go along because they are stupid.
WTF are you talking about?
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Funny how a liberal almost always projects their own faults onto those who point out their faults.
Good projection. Bad outcome.
Bigot.
Need a tissue? 😢
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Need a tissue? 😢
When you can't win on facts you always go there....
Pussy. :o
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When you can't win on facts you always go there....
Pussy. :o
I always go to offering you a tissue? I am such a gentleman!
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I always go to offering you a tissue? I am such a gentleman!
nope.
Just a pussy. 😳
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nope.
Just a pussy. 😳
To be fair, I am many more things than that. I'm confident your adolescent brain can come up with some other labels. 😋
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nope.
Just a pussy. 😳
To be fair, I am many more things than that. I'm confident your adolescent brain can come up with some other labels. 😋
You two should get a room.
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To be fair, I am many more things than that. I'm confident your adolescent brain can come up with some other labels. 😋
Pussy...✌️
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Pussy...✌️
Liberal!
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Liberal!
Skank!
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Skank!
(http://www.californiaherps.com/lizards/images/esskiltonsisk.jpg)
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Ok you two, just kiss already.