Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2020, 12:08:05 PM
Now we have "Dr" Jill Biden. Ol' Joe even admitted she got the phony Ed degree because she was bothered by "Sen Joe Biden and Jill Biden" so she could have it "Dr. Jill Biden and Sen Joe Biden".
What a hoot.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/16/jill-biden-doctoral-dissertation-tucker-carlson-national-shame/
Post by: Anthony on December 17, 2020, 12:37:02 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 17, 2020, 03:10:49 PM
Post by: Rush on December 17, 2020, 03:17:48 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 17, 2020, 03:47:15 PM
Maybe those of us with a MS should insist on being called "Master" :-)
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 17, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
Post by: Rush on December 17, 2020, 05:18:19 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 17, 2020, 05:42:19 PM
I found that of the people I know/worked with, almost every single one with a phd that insists on being called "doctor", well... the ones that don't insist on it contributed more to the team.
Maybe those of us with a MS should insist on being called "Master" :-)
As long as your last name isn’t Bader....
Post by: Number7 on December 17, 2020, 06:53:56 PM
So far I have refused to use it as an introduction, or to establish my credentials, though when I have taught I have been introduced that way.
The truth is simple. The vast majority of PhD holders are stuffed shirts with nothing of significance to show for their careers, so they hang their identity on their diploma.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 17, 2020, 08:03:38 PM
I earned my PhD in my forties and it was a labor of love, not career enhancement.
So far I have refused to use it as an introduction, or to establish my credentials, though when I have taught I have been introduced that way.
The truth is simple. The vast majority of PhD holders are stuffed shirts with nothing of significance to show for their careers, so they hand their identity on their diploma.
I agree with this. I worked with a lady once who always let everyone know what her pedigree was.
Post by: Username on December 18, 2020, 07:57:16 AM
Consider the education needed. To be an MD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 4 years of medical school, and 3 to 7 years of residency. Do earn a PhD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 2 years of masters, 4 years of doctorate, and then six years to associate professor and tenure. About the same as an MD.
Anyone who insists on being called "Dr so and so" is as Number7 said, a stuffed shirt with nothing of significance in their career. I don't know Dr. Jill or what she's done with her Ed.D. Which of course is so much less impressive than a real PhD :) But this whole thing about what kind of doctor is better is just silly.
Post by: Username on December 18, 2020, 08:04:49 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2020, 08:14:21 AM
But this whole thing about what kind of doctor is better is just silly.
Agreed. The OP was to show, once again, just what a bunch of phony the Bidens are.
"Dr" Biden was an absolute disaster as an educator. Her dissertation was a joke. In reality, it's an honorary title given to a politicians wife.
Yet the dims hail her as authority on education.
Post by: jb1842 on December 18, 2020, 08:21:52 AM
Then again, maybe someone should buy Dr. Jill Biden a V-tail Bonanza to see if she's a real doctor?
Taking my kid to school this morning, the idiot on the radio called her First Lady Elect. What a dangerous mindset the sheep have in this country.
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2020, 09:28:47 AM
Then again, maybe someone should buy Dr. Jill Biden a V-tail Bonanza to see if she's a real doctor?
That's really the only way to truly find out.
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 10:17:10 AM
I side with PhDs who want to be addressed by their title. “Doctor” never exclusively referred to medical doctors. I’ve no love for Jill Biden and if doctorates don’t represent the excellent intellectual achievement they used to that’s a shame. Still if I’d gotten one, I’d want my title used. I wouldn’t make a big deal about it though.Context matters. My father-in-law had a PhD and was a professor at Illinois State University. Everyone at school called him Doctor G___, but he despised anyone using that outside of the university or outside an academic setting. It made him super uncomfortable.
Medical professionals who’ve earned a doctorate have earned the right to use it in public, though most that I know certainly do not. My daughter is a DVM, but she only uses Doctor in professional settings.
Someone I vaguely know got a PhD in marketing from some online university, and throughout LinkedIn, she uses the prefix “Dr.” I’m embarrassed for her, and think it shows a total inferiority complex.
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 18, 2020, 10:30:25 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2020, 10:41:21 AM
On the other side of things, there is the conservative Dr. Steve Turley. I’ve watched some of his Youtube videos. So far as I can tell he’s not a medical doctor. - looks to have earned his doctorate in theology or philosophy. Seems to have no problem polishing his public persona with the Doctor honorific.
Yep, he’s another one. Reminds me of the third world where titles are everything.
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 11:04:15 AM
I side with PhDs who want to be addressed by their title. “Doctor” never exclusively referred to medical doctors. I’ve no love for Jill Biden and if doctorates don’t represent the excellent intellectual achievement they used to that’s a shame. Still if I’d gotten one, I’d want my title used. I wouldn’t make a big deal about it though.Context matters. My father-in-law had a PhD and was a professor at Illinois State University. Everyone at school called him Doctor G___, but he despised anyone using that outside of the university or outside an academic setting. It made him super uncomfortable.
Medical professionals who’ve earned a doctorate have earned the right to use it in public, though most that I know certainly do not. My daughter is a DVM, but she only uses Doctor in professional settings.
Someone I vaguely know got a PhD in marketing from some online university, and throughout LinkedIn, she uses the prefix “Dr.” I’m embarrassed for her, and think it shows a total inferiority complex.
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 11:09:17 AM
I found that of the people I know/worked with, almost every single one with a phd that insists on being called "doctor", well... the ones that don't insist on it contributed more to the team.Exactly!!!
Maybe those of us with a MS should insist on being called "Master" :-)
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Then again, maybe someone should buy Dr. Jill Biden a V-tail Bonanza to see if she's a real doctor?Internet post of the day, Chief Justice Elect! Here you go!
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 11:25:51 AM
Taking my kid to school this morning, the idiot on the radio called her First Lady Elect. What a dangerous mindset the sheep have in this country.Yet for 4 years, the MSM couldn’t summon up the willpower to call our president “President Trump.” For 4 years, it’s just been “Trump.” Disrespectfully little pricks.
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
On the other side of things, there is the conservative Dr. Steve Turley. I’ve watched some of his Youtube videos. So far as I can tell he’s not a medical doctor. - looks to have earned his doctorate in theology or philosophy. Seems to have no problem polishing his public persona with the Doctor honorific.Ego and self esteem knows no political bounds.
Post by: jb1842 on December 18, 2020, 11:34:35 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2020, 01:01:42 PM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2020, 01:03:56 PM
Post by: nddons on December 18, 2020, 02:29:04 PM
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20407226/bidens-dissertation.pdfWow, 7 Piled higher and Deepers reviewed this. Not one caught any of the errors they have been highlighted. Kind of puts the term “higher education” into question.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 18, 2020, 07:46:35 PM
Gotta love all of the phony that surrounds the Bidens. Joe's plagiarizing problems, lying about his college education, caught in massive lies over 47 years, his outright bigotry and racism (all well documented), then we have Hunter, the crack head low life using daddy to set him up as a bagman in their grifting schemes. Then throw in James Biden and his grifting.
Now we have "Dr" Jill Biden. Ol' Joe even admitted she got the phony Ed degree because she was bothered by "Sen Joe Biden and Jill Biden" so she could have it "Dr. Jill Biden and Sen Joe Biden".
What a hoot.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/16/jill-biden-doctoral-dissertation-tucker-carlson-national-shame/
I had actually thought she was an MD until the last few days.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 18, 2020, 07:52:10 PM
I earned my PhD later in life, but mostly as an entry to a lifestyle. I enjoy learning and teaching cool stuff and being essentially self-employed. After many years in the "real world" the academic life is, for me, much better. I never use the title Dr. except when I have to in the school website. If some publication uses honorific "Mr." in front of my name, then I gently correct them to change it to "Dr." just for clarity.
Consider the education needed. To be an MD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 4 years of medical school, and 3 to 7 years of residency. Do earn a PhD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 2 years of masters, 4 years of doctorate, and then six years to associate professor and tenure. About the same as an MD.
Anyone who insists on being called "Dr so and so" is as Number7 said, a stuffed shirt with nothing of significance in their career. I don't know Dr. Jill or what she's done with her Ed.D. Which of course is so much less impressive than a real PhD :) But this whole thing about what kind of doctor is better is just silly.
You don't need any teaching experience to get a PhD.
Post by: nddons on December 19, 2020, 06:47:41 AM
I earned my PhD later in life, but mostly as an entry to a lifestyle. I enjoy learning and teaching cool stuff and being essentially self-employed. After many years in the "real world" the academic life is, for me, much better. I never use the title Dr. except when I have to in the school website. If some publication uses honorific "Mr." in front of my name, then I gently correct them to change it to "Dr." just for clarity.Really not even close to an MD.
Consider the education needed. To be an MD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 4 years of medical school, and 3 to 7 years of residency. Do earn a PhD, you need 4 years of undergraduate, 2 years of masters, 4 years of doctorate, and then six years to associate professor and tenure. About the same as an MD.
Anyone who insists on being called "Dr so and so" is as Number7 said, a stuffed shirt with nothing of significance in their career. I don't know Dr. Jill or what she's done with her Ed.D. Which of course is so much less impressive than a real PhD :) But this whole thing about what kind of doctor is better is just silly.
Post by: Little Joe on December 19, 2020, 07:00:36 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2020, 07:18:38 AM
I know I'm going to be called snotty, or arrogant or worse, but I think you all are being a little petty here. Big deal if the President's wife is called Doctor, (which she is entitled to). She obviously worked darn hard to earn the degree. And she isn't even running for anything, so what is the big deal?
Here's the "big deal". Why is it leftist have one set of rules to live by while conservative must live by what's imposed by the leftist?
Jill Biden got a shame degree just for the title, hell, even her husband admitted that. The dissertation was a joke. Her classes she taught was further evidence she is clueless. Yet leftist are holding her out to be this supposed icon and telling us how we should marvel at her title.
Look at the leftist treatment of Dr. Ben Carson. Here is a real pioneer of medicine that made significant advances, yet the leftist condemned him as if he was some guy who took a course in first aid. Look at Dr. Rand Paul. Again, highly accomplished but brutally smeared.
There are many others.
Back to the Bidens. Remember Joe bragging about his 3 degrees and graduating in the top of his law school? Phony, but he get's a pass. His son Hunter? Kicked out of the military for being a crack head, no problem, here's your pass. Joe's brother James and his nefarious business dealings? No problem, here's your pass. Biden's daughter and her drug problems? Again, no problem, here's your pass.
And on and on. It's nauseating that the left gets preferential treatment while conservatives are attacked, smeared and maligned by their accomplishments.
It's sickening watching a pervert like Joe Biden and his pedophile drug addicted son about to get the keys to the WH, nevermind all of the criminal activity they've been involved in. The clueless phony wife just adds to it.
Post by: Username on December 19, 2020, 08:04:47 AM
Really not even close to an MD.For a surgeon or other specialist, of course not. They need years more training. But for the run-of-the-mill family practitioner MD, education requirements are about the same as a PhD. What is unfair and borderline criminal is that the MD is massively abused during their residency training
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 19, 2020, 08:32:40 AM
I know I'm going to be called snotty, or arrogant or worse,
you are being snotty and arrogant.
There, happy?
(yes, a feeble attempt at levity)
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 19, 2020, 10:16:53 AM
I haven’t watched it in 10 years but heard the franchise has taken a serious downturn.
Post by: Anthony on December 19, 2020, 12:19:45 PM
For a surgeon or other specialist, of course not. They need years more training. But for the run-of-the-mill family practitioner MD, education requirements are about the same as a PhD. What is unfair and borderline criminal is that the MD is massively abused during their residency training
The medical school curriculum is more difficult than most non stem curricula
.
Post by: nddons on December 19, 2020, 12:33:37 PM
I know I'm going to be called snotty, or arrogant or worse, but I think you all are being a little petty here. Big deal if the President's wife is called Doctor, (which she is entitled to). She obviously worked darn hard to earn the degree. And she isn't even running for anything, so what is the big deal?Save it Joe. For 8 years we were force fed that Michelle Obama was the most beautiful woman to grace the White House. Then when Melania came in, she was not only ignored, she was derided and ridiculed.
Now we are being force fed that we MUST call Jill Biden Doctor.
Fuck that.
Post by: Username on December 19, 2020, 02:24:00 PM
The medical school curriculum is more difficult than most non stem curriculaAgreed. STEM PhDs are very difficult and they have to do real research. I'd even put lawyers (JDs) in that same category. Most of the dissertations I've read in the non-stem fields are pretty dismal. I did read the female Biden's dissertation. It was truly horrible and would not get past the editors of any decent journal. A study of retention in a SINGLE community college? No way should that have been approved.
.
Post by: Rush on December 19, 2020, 03:21:51 PM
So stop it already. The bitch has the right - and 18 centuries longer historical precedent - to call herself doctor whether you like it or not.
But I read her paper too and it's crap. Too bad the state of academia is so pathetic. It's been taken over by the left who have absolutely no integrity or sense of honor at all. They've ruined the title like they ruin everything they touch.
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
But I read her paper too and it's crap. Too bad the state of academia is so pathetic. It's been taken over by the left who have absolutely no integrity or sense of honor at all. They've ruined the title like they ruin everything they touch.
What's being missed here is the reason she chose the degree, and why. Again, as most things in liberal land, it's all a facade. Yet the leftist and their propaganda machine will hammer the point in that somehow she is so enlightened.
After 4 years of endless rants and attacks against anything conservative, sorry, I have no problem calling it what it is.
Wanna discuss how Joe ended up with Jill? That's a doozie as well. This is one seriously dysfunctional family.
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 19, 2020, 06:00:29 PM
STEM PhDs are very difficult and they have to do real research. I'd even put lawyers (JDs) in that same category.
By law anyone who wants to practice before the USPTO has to have a “Bachelor's Degree in a Recognized Technical Subject” (some exceptions are allowed.)
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/OED_GRB.pdf (https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/OED_GRB.pdf)
And a patent lawyer needs a J.D., so they have invested a lot of time, money, and mental effort to get to that point in two different fields: the rules of the universe and the laws of man, to the extent they are known.
Post by: Little Joe on December 19, 2020, 08:08:40 PM
What's being missed here is the reason she chose the degree, and why. Again, as most things in liberal land, it's all a facade. Yet the leftist and their propaganda machine will hammer the point in that somehow she is so enlightened.I don't believe anyone here knows THE reason Jill got her doctorate.
After 4 years of endless rants and attacks against anything conservative, sorry, I have no problem calling it what it is.
Wanna discuss how Joe ended up with Jill? That's a doozie as well. This is one seriously dysfunctional family.
But if you want to piss an moan because you feel she is getting more credit or respect than someone on OUR side, go ahead. It just makes you look smaller.
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
I don't believe anyone here knows THE reason Jill got her doctorate.
But if you want to piss an moan because you feel she is getting more credit or respect than someone on OUR side, go ahead. It just makes you look smaller.
Joe publicly stated why she got the degree. Like everything else Biden, it’s a sham. Going to a college that has a hall named after her husband and doing a crap job writing a dissertation so she can call herself a “doctor” (which she insist upon) is small. It’s fuckin’ pathetic.
Post by: Anthony on December 20, 2020, 03:41:50 AM
I don't believe anyone here knows THE reason Jill got her doctorate.
But if you want to piss an moan because you feel she is getting more credit or respect than someone on OUR side, go ahead. It just makes you look smaller.
Seriously?
Post by: Anthony on December 20, 2020, 04:25:39 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 20, 2020, 06:18:46 AM
I don't believe anyone here knows THE reason Jill got her doctorate.
fair enough (the validity of that point is dimished by gropin' joe's public statements wrt the reason)
But if you want to piss an moan because you feel she is getting more credit or respect than someone on OUR side, go ahead. It just makes you look smaller.
and then you ascribe a reason to people belittling her "accomplishment"
Do you think anyone should be impressed by her "accomplishment"?
Post by: Little Joe on December 20, 2020, 06:32:56 AM
Not at all. I just think that 4 pages of ranting over this is out of proportion. Now if it was Joe was calling himself Doctor on such thin credentials, I could understand it.
Do you think anyone should be impressed by her "accomplishment"?
Post by: Rush on December 20, 2020, 06:49:03 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 20, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Not at all. I just think that 4 pages of ranting over this is out of proportion. Now if it was Joe was calling himself Doctor on such thin credentials, I could understand it.
I guess I'm not assuming this is the end of the world... not every thread is particularly earth-shattering.
I doubt anyone thinks the whole "doctor" title kurfuffle is particularly important.
I guess I would call your characterization of "ranting" to be out of proportion to reality.
oh well. This is the internet... everyone gets to choose what they want to comment on and how.... and, this is Pilot Spin, where everyone gets to say whatever they want.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 20, 2020, 09:58:10 AM
"Doctor" originally was a title to teach, first used in the early church (it comes from Latin) and later in secular universities. It did not originate as a medical doctor so if anyone has more right to use it, the academic doctoral degree holder does. While it was used to refer to all disciplines including medicine, but also law, theology and later the sciences, and then the general term "philosophy" (referring to all knowledge - the PhD), it was in the context of teaching. It wasn't until the 19th century that it became common to refer to practicing physicians as "doctors".
So stop it already. The bitch has the right - and 18 centuries longer historical precedent - to call herself doctor whether you like it or not.
But I read her paper too and it's crap. Too bad the state of academia is so pathetic. It's been taken over by the left who have absolutely no integrity or sense of honor at all. They've ruined the title like they ruin everything they touch.
Post by: Anthony on December 20, 2020, 12:09:07 PM
Yeah it’s literally the apocalypse and you guys are arguing over someone using the Dr title. Well I guess I participated too....
The problem is we can not talk about what cures we'd propose for this apocalypse because we no longer have free speech and fear our government instead of it fearing us.
Post by: nddons on December 21, 2020, 06:17:36 AM
"Doctor" originally was a title to teach, first used in the early church (it comes from Latin) and later in secular universities. It did not originate as a medical doctor so if anyone has more right to use it, the academic doctoral degree holder does. While it was used to refer to all disciplines including medicine, but also law, theology and later the sciences, and then the general term "philosophy" (referring to all knowledge - the PhD), it was in the context of teaching. It wasn't until the 19th century that it became common to refer to practicing physicians as "doctors".Nope. Won’t stop it, since we are being TOLD we have to call her doctor, and will be force-fed that by the media.
So stop it already. The bitch has the right - and 18 centuries longer historical precedent - to call herself doctor whether you like it or not.
But I read her paper too and it's crap. Too bad the state of academia is so pathetic. It's been taken over by the left who have absolutely no integrity or sense of honor at all. They've ruined the title like they ruin everything they touch.
Being TOLD I MUST wear a mask also makes me reject wearing a mask. Kind of the same thought process.
Post by: Rush on December 21, 2020, 07:45:24 AM
Nope. Won’t stop it, since we are being TOLD we have to call her doctor, and will be force-fed that by the media.
Being TOLD I MUST wear a mask also makes me reject wearing a mask. Kind of the same thought process.
I’m not saying you have to call her doctor. No more than I agree with Canada forcing people to call transgenders by their “preferred pronoun”. I’m just agreeing with Little Joe who said 4 pages of ranting about this is out of proportion. It’s like bitching about the arrangement of deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking. But by all means, carry on if you want.
Post by: Lucifer on December 21, 2020, 07:58:08 AM
I’m not saying you have to call her doctor. No more than I agree with Canada forcing people to call transgenders by their “preferred pronoun”. I’m just agreeing with Little Joe who said 4 pages of ranting about this is out of proportion. It’s like bitching about the arrangement of deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking. But by all means, carry on if you want.
I'm old enough to remember threads where individuals were so butthurt over something Trump wrote in a tweet that it went on for pages.
But that was Trump. We can now watch that same crowd jump to protect the Pedo Pervert Joe and his dysfunctional family and hold them out as model citizens........you know......that's the "gentlemanly" thing to do. ::)
Post by: Rush on December 21, 2020, 09:07:36 AM
I'm old enough to remember threads where individuals were so butthurt over something Trump wrote in a tweet that it went on for pages.
But that was Trump. We can now watch that same crowd jump to protect the Pedo Pervert Joe and his dysfunctional family and hold them out as model citizens........you know......that's the "gentlemanly" thing to do. ::)
It is surreal to the point of Twilight Zone to see people believe that Biden, who barely bothered to campaign, couldn’t attract any crowd at all, openly gave voters the finger by vowing to raise taxes, kill our energy industry, and disarm us all; showed clear signs of severe cognitive decline, insulted black voters, yelled at and insulted journalists and others asking him innocent questions, and had an unpopular bitch as a running mate, actually won more votes than anyone else ever, beating even Obama, a charismatic, historically relevant and very popular candidate.
Post by: Anthony on December 21, 2020, 12:06:40 PM
It is surreal to the point of Twilight Zone to see people believe that Biden, who barely bothered to campaign, couldn’t attract any crowd at all, openly gave voters the finger by vowing to raise taxes, kill our energy industry, and disarm us all; showed clear signs of severe cognitive decline, insulted black voters, yelled at and insulted journalists and others asking him innocent questions, and had an unpopular bitch as a running mate, actually won more votes than anyone else ever, beating even Obama, a charismatic, historically relevant and very popular candidate.
It is so surreal it is fraudulent.
Post by: bflynn on December 22, 2020, 05:54:24 AM
It is surreal to the point of Twilight Zone to see people believe that Biden, who barely bothered to campaign, couldn’t attract any crowd at all, openly gave voters the finger by vowing to raise taxes, kill our energy industry, and disarm us all; showed clear signs of severe cognitive decline, insulted black voters, yelled at and insulted journalists and others asking him innocent questions, and had an unpopular bitch as a running mate, actually won more votes than anyone else ever, beating even Obama, a charismatic, historically relevant and very popular candidate.
Why? Can you not comprehend anyone voting against Trump? The election was Trump's to lose and he did.
We've been through this already, but you (all) seem to be digging in deeper.
Like it or not, some element of our elections come down to a popularity contest. Can you honestly say that you believe Trump is popular with a majority of people?
Post by: Mr Pou on December 22, 2020, 06:17:16 AM
It is so surreal it is fraudulent.
Why? Can you not comprehend anyone voting against Trump? The election was Trump's to lose and he did.
I get that some people don't like Trump, he was not everyone's cup o' joe. But, and this is a big but:
People no longer look at logic when deciding things. Mass/social media have conditioned people go with feelings instead of looking at facts and logic, and as I've stated here before, going with feelings rarely results in good decisions.
In their zest to get rid of Trump, the "majority"[1] have thrown the baby out with the bath water. I just hope things don't change too much before I shuffle off. As for the young who have allowed their minds to be controlled, well, I hope they enjoy the rough boning they will receive as a result of their decisions.
[1] I put majority in quotes as I don't believe for an instant Joe Biden won the majority fair and square.
Post by: Rush on December 22, 2020, 08:30:56 AM
Why? Can you not comprehend anyone voting against Trump? The election was Trump's to lose and he did.
We've been through this already, but you (all) seem to be digging in deeper.
Like it or not, some element of our elections come down to a popularity contest. Can you honestly say that you believe Trump is popular with a majority of people?
Can you honestly say that you believe Biden won more votes than any other president in history including Obama?
Post by: Mase on December 22, 2020, 10:34:42 AM
Can you honestly say that you believe Biden won more votes than any other president in history including Obama?
No effing way.
Post by: Little Joe on December 22, 2020, 10:42:35 AM
Can you honestly say that you believe Biden won more votes than any other president in history including Obama?Yes, I can honestly say that he won more votes.
But I can't say he won more votes honestly.