Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 13, 2023, 02:59:07 AM
$498 billion dollars!!!
https://newstalk870.am/report-wa-state-over-2-9-million-short-of-ev-charging-station-needs/
Liberals just can’t help themselves. Something new and shiny and virtuous looking comes along and they have to align with it, no matter how freakishly unreasonable their time schedules are and how unrealistic their goals are. They’ve never heard of slow and cautious. Oh no, no pragmatism or intelligence here! Never mind the power grid!!! Gotta have our cool cars and save the planet by powering them with …. wait … how IS the electricity generated???
Hahahahahaha!
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2023, 03:32:45 AM
…needs to be moved to its own thread.Thank you.
Quote
Just saw this article about EV charging stations in my state. Laughing uncontrollably. My Governor is an idiot.The problem isn't with EVs. The problem is with liberals.
$498 billion dollars!!!
https://newstalk870.am/report-wa-state-over-2-9-million-short-of-ev-charging-station-needs/
Liberals just can’t help themselves. Something new and shiny and virtuous looking comes along and they have to align with it, no matter how freakishly unreasonable their time schedules are and how unrealistic their goals are. They’ve never heard of slow and cautious. Oh no, no pragmatism or intelligence here! Never mind the power grid!!! Gotta have our cool cars and save the planet by powering them with …. wait … how IS the electricity generated???
Hahahahahaha!
But you are right. Pushing them too fast. Picking winners and losers via subsidies never works. Mandating things like military going all electric is sheer lunacy.
But EVs are really cool.
Post by: nddons on September 13, 2023, 07:56:05 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 13, 2023, 08:17:24 AM
Now that we have a thread for EVs, I have yet to be convinced that such unprecedented necessary battery production will be “green,” and not require child labor to work in some of these metals and rare earth mineral mines.
It takes an enormous amount of energy to mine and build batteries. And that means fossil fuels.
The tires? The plastic interior items? The lubricants? They all need to be produced from oil.
The whole idea that these cars are "green" is yet another huge lie.
Post by: Number7 on September 13, 2023, 08:20:19 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 13, 2023, 08:45:03 AM
https://www.mainstreetnews.com/banks/news/banks-county-company-sues-sk-battery-over-fire-damage/article_1602a244-3acc-11ee-8eb5-9fae47ef3989.html
Quote
A Banks County man claims that a battery company is responsible for the fire that destroyed several buildings.Scott Ledford, owner of Metro Site, has filed a lawsuit against SK Battery of Commerce.Ledford contends that the company included batteries that were not allowed in items they disposed of at his company. He is seeking $26.5 million in damages.
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2023, 10:18:19 AM
It takes an enormous amount of energy to mine and build batteries. And that means fossil fuels.When did
The tires? The plastic interior items? The lubricants? They all need to be produced from oil.
The whole idea that these cars are "green" is yet another huge lie.
Post by: Lucifer on September 13, 2023, 10:30:55 AM
When didallmost of you guys become such devout environmentalists? ;)
I do care about the environment. I just don't get into the cultism over it like the leftist. And I realize that fossil fuels have increased and improved our way of life.
Post by: Number7 on September 13, 2023, 11:05:42 AM
When didallmost of you guys become such devout environmentalists? ;)
With most, if not all of the leftist green agenda being about taking our money and giving them power, it is important to avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Just because we acknowledge the tragic environmental downside of the lithium battery obsession doesn’t make us greenies.
Post by: Anthony on September 13, 2023, 11:17:44 AM
When didallmost of you guys become such devout environmentalists?
I would say most here have been pro environment and conservationists since we were old enough and aware enough to do so. The fact you would make an issue of it to make an absurd point is demeaning to yourself.
You lost the EV argument, so you lash out at everyone. Typical.
;)
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2023, 11:20:02 AM
True.
Just because we acknowledge the tragic environmental downside of the lithium battery obsession doesn’t make us greenies.
Just like the fact that I like EVs doesn't make me a liberal, pussy, tree hugging SJW or any of the other names assigned to those of us that like EVs either.
There are pros and cons to both EV and ICE vehicles. I just don't think politics should be put on either side of the equation when deciding.
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2023, 11:23:55 AM
I would say most here have been pro environment and conservationists since we were old enough and aware :Denough to do so.I know that's true. So it is a shame that most conservatives have to pretend to not care because they think it makes them look like a liberal.
Quote
You lost the EV argument, so you lash out at everyone. Typical.In what way have I lost the argument? I don't think you even know what my argument is.
;)
Post by: Anthony on September 13, 2023, 04:14:07 PM
I know that's true. So it is a shame that most conservatives have to pretend to not care because they think it makes them look like a liberal.
In what way have I lost the argument? I don't think you even know what my argument is.
EVs are no better for the environment than ICE vehicles due to mineral mining, battery disposal and other manufacturing issues Lucifer highlighted.
Their only upside is if drive shorter ranges, you can charge in your garage and avoid a FIVE MINUTE fillup at a gas station. Big wup!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 13, 2023, 04:27:57 PM
I know that's true. So it is a shame that most conservatives have to pretend to not care because they think it makes them look like a liberal.
somehow I'm not seeing conservatives being afraid of being labelled "liberal" because they actually care about the environment... certainly not "most conservatives"
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2023, 04:49:22 PM
EVs are no better for the environment than ICE vehicles due to mineral mining, battery disposal and other manufacturing issues Lucifer highlighted.Proving that you don't know what my argument is; therefore you can't possibly say I've lost the argument.
Quote
Their only upside is if drive shorter ranges, you can charge in your garage and avoid a FIVE MINUTE fillup at a gas station. Big wup!Proving that you:
don't know,
don't understand,
or are willing to admit the advantages of EVs.
Post by: Rush on September 13, 2023, 06:40:41 PM
But since I decided I like Elon, maybe I’ll try to be open minded about Tesla.
My big problem with EVs isn’t with the cars themselves but with them being forced on us.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 14, 2023, 03:09:12 AM
https://www.westernjournal.com/pete-buttigieg-admits-issues-electric-vehicle-spending-100-million-taxpayer-dollars-problem/
Quote
The problem is that nature is far more powerful than the progressives ever will be. Smarter, too. If the progressive left were to actually achieve the goal of net carbon emissions, it would be a disaster, according to Dr. Patrick Moore, co-founder of the environmental group Greenpeace.
“If we actually achieved Net Zero, at least 50 percent of the population would die of hunger and disease,” Moore said in an interview with BizNews. “At least 50 percent of the population depends on nitrogen fertilizer for its existence today. There’s no doubt about that. And there’s people trying to ban it, and Netherlands and Sri Lanka have already made these kinds of moves. So it is truly a death wish in disguise, and the disguise is to save the Earth, which doesn’t need saving, particularly.”
In his critically acclaimed book “Fossil Future,” energy expert Alex Epstein asserted, “Today’s proposed policies to rapidly eliminate fossil fuel use would, if fully implemented, have truly apocalyptic consequences – making the world an impoverished, dangerous, and miserable place for most people.
“And even if fossil fuel elimination policies aren’t fully implemented … even widespread restrictions on fossil fuel use that fall far short of elimination will shorten and inflict misery on billions of lives, especially in the poorest parts of the world.”
The progressive left doesn’t like informed people like Moore and Epstein. They see them as killjoys. So they simply ignore them and continue on their way, spending your tax dollars to fuel their delusions of power.
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2023, 04:06:38 AM
Proving that you don't know what my argument is; therefore you can't possibly say I've lost the argument.
Proving that you:
don't know,
don't understand,
or are willing to admit the advantages of EVs.
Bullshit. You're also hiding you want to be an environmental/Man Made Climate Change Virtue Signaler, but use the avoidance of SHORT stop at gas stations for gasoline as the reason you want an EV. Total BS.
What are the advantages of EV's? MAYBE lower maintenance costs, but then you have battery replacement which totals the car after 8 years. How about battery degradation over time effecting range and temperature degradation effecting range?
Post by: Lucifer on September 14, 2023, 05:37:48 AM
(https://i.redd.it/ttfrwu9txnj81.jpg)
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2023, 05:40:09 AM
I do care about the environment. I just don't get into the cultism over it like the leftist. And I realize that fossil fuels have increased and improved our way of life.Bingo.
Post by: Lucifer on September 14, 2023, 05:46:05 AM
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2023, 05:47:51 AM
I would say most here have been pro environment and conservationists since we were old enough and aware enough to do so. The fact you would make an issue of it to make an absurd point is demeaning to yourself.When I was a Boy Scout in the early 1970s I earned the Ecology merit badge. That was when global cooling was the threat, gasoline was being rationed, and the country was pretty filthy in terms of litter.
You lost the EV argument, so you lash out at everyone. Typical.
;)
There was a mindset to keep our country clean. Cars had litter bags hanging from the window turn cranks or cigarette lighters. We returned our glass bottles to the grocery stores, we had paper bags, we recycled our daily newspapers at paper drives at our church.
We weren’t retarded enough to wrap paper straws in plastic wrappers to drink out of plastic cups and think we were “just doing something” to help the oceans.
Last time I was in Chicago I saw a black woman drop an empty McDonalds bag and cups out of a van and onto the street. I’ll bet she votes democrat.
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2023, 05:49:47 AM
I know that's true. So it is a shame that most conservatives have to pretend to not care because they think it makes them look like a liberal.Being a realist doesn’t make us look like we don’t care, except to ignorant liberals who bought into the green orthodoxy.
In what way have I lost the argument? I don't think you even know what my argument is.
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2023, 11:23:07 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 18, 2023, 08:47:55 AM
good grief.
Post by: Anthony on September 18, 2023, 09:35:15 AM
While I was looking online at plug-in hybrid electric range I saw an online review good/bad of plug-in hybrids. The writer whined about plug-ins using scarce battery materials for plug-in hybrids rather than going to all-electric vehicles.
good grief.
I think plug in hybrids are a very practical solution as it ends range anxiety but let's you charge overnight.
The Greenies don't like them because they still use SOME gasoline. ::)
Post by: Little Joe on September 18, 2023, 09:58:21 AM
I think plug in hybrids are a very practical solution as it ends range anxiety but let's you charge overnight.Guess I'm not a Greennie cuz that's not why I don't like them.
The Greenies don't like them because they still use SOME gasoline. ::)
I do think they are a good compromise . . .
But they still need oil changes, spark plugs, emissions control systems, engine computers, fuel injection systems, transmissions, drive shafts, differentials, radiators, and all the other things that makes EVs so much better than ICE cars.
Post by: Rush on September 18, 2023, 10:13:50 AM
Guess I'm not a Greennie cuz that's not why I don't like them.
I do think they are a good compromise . . .
But they still need oil changes, spark plugs, emissions control systems, engine computers, fuel injection systems, transmissions, drive shafts, differentials, radiators, and all the other things that makes EVs so much better than ICE cars.
Well if a car doesn’t have all that stuff what would my husband do in the shop all day?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 18, 2023, 11:04:25 AM
Post by: Rush on September 18, 2023, 11:18:12 AM
idle thought (no pun): are the enviro wackos also targetting motorcycles?
They’re targeting everything that burns gas.
Post by: Anthony on September 18, 2023, 11:43:34 AM
Guess I'm not a Greennie cuz that's not why I don't like them.
I do think they are a good compromise . . .
But they still need oil changes, spark plugs, emissions control systems, engine computers, fuel injection systems, transmissions, drive shafts, differentials, radiators, and all the other things that makes EVs so much better than ICE cars.
So none of the myriad of technological gizmos they have in these things ever break and when they do, who fixes them besides Tesla or dealers?
Post by: Little Joe on September 18, 2023, 11:54:42 AM
So none of the myriad of technological gizmos they have in these things ever break and when they do, who fixes them besides Tesla or dealers?Then why do you want plug-in hybrids? They not only have all the technological gizmos that might break, but they also have all those other mechanical things that can also break, not to mention, add a ton of weight; Batteries AND drive trains (Engines, transmissions, differentials, drive shafts etc.)
They are the worst of both worlds.
Post by: Anthony on September 18, 2023, 12:34:12 PM
Then why do you want plug-in hybrids? They not only have all the technological gizmos that might break, but they also have all those other mechanical things that can also break, not to mention, add a ton of weight; Batteries AND drive trains (Engines, transmissions, differentials, drive shafts etc.)
They are the worst of both worlds.
Because they solve the utter failure of the EV. Range and operating in hot and cold. It's totally worth it or just stick with ICE.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 18, 2023, 12:56:12 PM
Then why do you want plug-in hybrids? They not only have all the technological gizmos that might break, but they also have all those other mechanical things that can also break, not to mention, add a ton of weight; Batteries AND drive trains (Engines, transmissions, differentials, drive shafts etc.)
They are the worst of both worlds.
what's the difference between a gas-electric hybrid and a plug-in hybrid wrt gizmos?
My experience with owning a couple of gas-electric hybrid is that they get significantly better gas mileage than the equivalent ICE-only vehicle. By "equivalent" I mean same make/model such as the Escape and the Escape hybrid.
It is my understanding that the plug-in hybrid will get better gas mileage than the gas-electric.... how much better would be a function of how often the ICE needs to run. And, of course, the electricity from the wall needs to be accounted for... it ain't free.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 18, 2023, 03:37:10 PM
So none of the myriad of technological gizmos they have in these things ever break and when they do, who fixes them besides Tesla or dealers?Some GM service centers have been doing some servicing of Teslas for a while now:https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/ (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/)
Post by: Anthony on September 19, 2023, 04:39:37 AM
Some GM service centers have been doing some servicing of Teslas for a while now:https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/ (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/)
Interesting, because Tesla has had a backlog of repairs which have taken up to a year in some cases to fix cars that have been in accidents, etc. I wonder if a company like GM will buy Tesla at some point and make it a division of GM?
Maybe the Federal Government should buy them and rename them Trabant? Very fitting in today's "Amerika".
Post by: Little Joe on September 19, 2023, 05:40:45 AM
National Security and Energy independence.
Middle East terrorists get their money and power from selling oil.
Russia’s main revenue source is oil and gas.
Other dictators around the world use oil revenue to secure their corrupt regimes.
If we could substantially reduce (not eliminate) our dependence on oil and gas, we could still pump all the oil we want to use in ships, airplanes, plastics, AND export. All the oil we sell overseas is oil the terrorists are not profiting from. But we would be.
We could have our cake and eat it too.
Post by: Number7 on September 19, 2023, 05:48:50 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 19, 2023, 06:00:32 AM
Here’s another reason I like EVs, and it has nothing to do with being green.
National Security and Energy independence.
Middle East terrorists get their money and power from selling oil.
Russia’s main revenue source is oil and gas.
Other dictators around the world use oil revenue to secure their corrupt regimes.
If we could substantially reduce (not eliminate) our dependence on oil and gas, we could still pump all the oil we want to use in ships, airplanes, plastics, AND export. All the oil we sell overseas is oil the terrorists are not profiting from. But we would be.
We could have our cake and eat it too.
The US has enough oil that we wouldn't need to buy from anyone outside the country, and we also could be a major exporter. All we need is govermental accountability to make that happen, without buying into stuff such as autos people don't want.
Post by: Rush on September 19, 2023, 06:01:01 AM
Hmmmm.... and just where does the electricity come from that is needed to charge the ev's?????
Windmills!
Post by: Little Joe on September 19, 2023, 06:04:27 AM
The US has enough oil that we wouldn't need to buy from anyone outside the country, and we also could be a major exporter. All we need is govermental accountability to make that happen, without buying into stuff such as autos people don't want.What do you mean by “people don’t want”. There is more demand for good EVs than can currently be built.
And the prices are coming way down.
Post by: Lucifer on September 19, 2023, 06:06:06 AM
What do you mean by “people don’t want”. There is more demand for good EVs than can currently be built.
And the prices are coming way down.
The prices are coming down due to lack of demand. Why don't you get your wife to go buy you one?
Post by: Old Crow on September 19, 2023, 06:09:15 AM
Hmmmm.... and just where does the electricity come from that is needed to charge the ev's?????Windmills in DC when congress is in session
Post by: Little Joe on September 19, 2023, 06:09:19 AM
Why don't you get your wife to go buy you one?Fuck you and the horse you had sex with.
Post by: Lucifer on September 19, 2023, 06:28:45 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 19, 2023, 06:29:59 AM
Windmills!
Windmills in DC when congress is in session
(http://)
Post by: Anthony on September 19, 2023, 06:36:42 AM
We neither have the generation capacity nor grid to support widespread use of EV's. I don't see them flying off dealers' lots, except in very, very affluent areas like mine where Model 3's are relatively common, but the other one or two cars in the driveway is an ICE BMW, Benz or Lexus, Land Rover, or other SUV.
So, what are manufactures whom have gone in with Governments worldwide and converting largely to EVs going to do with all of them? Will Government have to do a back door ban and make mileage requirements so onerous nobody can reach them with ICE or even a Hybrid? Will governments just ban ICE vehicles or severely limit how much or where they can be driven???
Post by: Rush on September 19, 2023, 07:01:54 AM
EV's are still largely a virtue signaling tool for the affluent. The working poor certainly can't afford them, and the vast majority have no place to charge them overnight. The Middle-Income Earner does not have the discretionary income to afford a spare ICE vehicle for longer trips or towing and the wife needs her ICE vehicle to go to WORK. Many people across the income spectrum live in townhouses, rowhomes or apartments and also don't have any place to charge overnight.
We neither have the generation capacity nor grid to support widespread use of EV's. I don't see them flying off dealers' lots, except in very, very affluent areas like mine where Model 3's are relatively common, but the other one or two cars in the driveway is an ICE BMW, Benz or Lexus, Land Rover, or other SUV.
So what are manufactures whom have gone in with Governments worldwide and converting largely to EVs going to do with all of them? Will Government have to do a back door ban and make mileage requirements so onerous nobody can reach them with ICE or even a Hybrid? Will governments jut ban ICE vehicles or severely limit how much or where they can be driven???
YES and they’ll also mandate charging stations be installed in all new construction. Then they’ll wonder why housing costs are so high.
Post by: Number7 on September 19, 2023, 07:50:15 AM
Fuck you and the horse you had sex with.
hmmm... If I parse your post correctly, you wish to have sexual relations with lucifer AND an unnamed, unverified equine sexual partner he may,or may not have had.
Kinky, but that behavior would certainly fit in with certain biden regime former appointees, so maybe it is more common than i thought.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 19, 2023, 07:57:37 AM
I wonder if a company like GM will buy Tesla at some point and make it a division of GM?That would be tough for GM since its market cap is $46 billion vs $825 billion for Tesla. But GMC reported $156 billion revenue in 2022 while Tesla reported $81 billion. But Tesla revenue grew 51% from 2021 to 2022 while GM grew 23% for the same period.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 19, 2023, 08:13:09 AM
Here’s another reason I like EVs, and it has nothing to do with being green.
National Security and Energy independence.
...
being dependent on the electric grid infrastructure doesn't enhance our National Security.
Post by: Lucifer on September 19, 2023, 08:34:11 AM
Quote
President Joe Biden praised General Motors chief executive Mary Barra at a 2022 event, saying "we owe you big" for pushing the auto industry towards all-electric production over the next decade. The president’s kind words for Barra, and their decision to team up to back a transition to electric vehicles, could come back to haunt both parties amid a historic United Auto Workers strike.
The 150,000-member union has singled out Barra as an example of corporate greed at the "Big Three" automakers, a group that also includes Ford and Stellantis. UAW, which launched a strike at four auto plants last week, took a shot at Barra over her industry-leading $29 million annual salary. UAW president Shawn Fain declared "war" on the Big Three last month, citing the $200 million Barra has raked in over the past decade. The union wants a hefty increase to salaries and benefits for its members, along with assurances that jobs will be protected during the transition to EV production.
That dramatic shift will likely come at a steep cost in terms of auto industry jobs, and the transition to electric vehicles is at the center of the auto workers' complaints. According to one estimate, the transition to EV production will come at the cost of 117,000 auto jobs.
"The workers who are making engines and transmissions today, their jobs will be eliminated when we make a transition to electric vehicles," UAW research director Jennifer Kelly said earlier this year. And Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, said last year he expects electric vehicles will require 40 percent less labor to produce than traditional automobiles.
The transition has already hit home for some auto workers. Stellantis, which owns Chrysler, laid off 1,200 employees at its Jeep plant in Illinois, citing "the electrification of the automotive market." Ford cut 3,000 white-collar jobs last year to slash costs to ease the transition to electric vehicles.
Biden and Barra's support for the EV push could come back to haunt them. Biden, who embraces his "Union Joe" moniker, has made Barra the poster child for his electric vehicle ambitions. He has praised Barra during at least 17 White House events and fundraisers, according to White House transcripts reviewed by the Washington Free Beacon.
"You electrified the entire automobile industry. You led, and it matters," Biden told Barra at one event. Biden has suggested he had a hand in Barra’s decision to put GM on an all-electric path. At fundraisers in Albuquerque and Salt Lake City last month, Biden recalled that after a meeting with Barra in 2021, she decided to commit GM to an all-electric fleet by 2035.
"I’m not saying it was because of me," Biden said to laughter at the Salt Lake City event.
Post by: Anthony on September 19, 2023, 01:05:01 PM
https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/union-joe-biden-teamed-up-with-gm-chief-to-push-a-transition-to-electric-vehicles-it-could-come-back-to-haunt-them/
The collusion and Fascism is out in the open and few seem to care! WTF?
Post by: Anthony on September 19, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
That would be tough for GM since its market cap is $46 billion vs $825 billion for Tesla. But GMC reported $156 billion revenue in 2022 while Tesla reported $81 billion. But Tesla revenue grew 51% from 2021 to 2022 while GM grew 23% for the same period.
Companies do it all the time. It's called a leveraged buyout. Now would it be wise for GM to do so? Dunno?
Post by: Little Joe on September 19, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
That would be tough for GM since its market cap is $46 billion vs $825 billion for Tesla. But GMC reported $156 billion revenue in 2022 while Tesla reported $81 billion. But Tesla revenue grew 51% from 2021 to 2022 while GM grew 23% for the same period.Perhaps Tesla should buy GM.
Post by: Anthony on September 21, 2023, 04:20:46 AM
Anybody know anything about them? They are cool looking; I will say that. Prepare to drop at least $100K.
(https://media.rivian.com/rivian-main/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto/R1S_Wheels_oljn13)
https://rivian.com/
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2023, 04:26:58 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 21, 2023, 04:28:20 AM
you and I have different ideas of what looks cool
It's different. I like that. If you saw one in person, you may change your mind.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2023, 04:29:48 AM
;-)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 21, 2023, 05:26:46 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 21, 2023, 05:40:11 AM
Saw a Rivian around here a month or so ago.
I see them once in a while here. Not common, but they stand out. I guess it's another way for these Fascist lovers to show the Swastika.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2023, 06:03:02 AM
I see them once in a while here. Not common, but they stand out. I guess it's another way for these Fascist lovers to show the Swastika.
I know someone that owns one. Piece of Shit is an adequate way to describe it.
Post by: Mase on September 21, 2023, 08:19:19 AM
Post by: Username on September 21, 2023, 08:31:40 AM
Ugly m'fer.The nose of most EVs confuses me. ICE cars need a big blunt nose to provide cooling air to the radiator. EVs have blunt noses with no openings. It seems that there could be some styling or something done to make it more appealing and/or aerodynamic. Looking like a regular nose without the openings is kind of strange. Like they forgot to cut the holes.
Post by: Anthony on September 21, 2023, 09:53:00 AM
I know someone that owns one. Piece of Shit is an adequate way to describe it.
So, he's had problems with it, or it just doesn't live up to its performance claims?
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2023, 10:09:32 AM
So, he's had problems with it, or it just doesn't live up to its performance claims?
Nothing but problems.
Post by: Little Joe on September 21, 2023, 11:42:12 AM
I know someone that owns one. Piece of Shit is an adequate way to describe it.You shouldn't talk about your friend that way.
Rivians are really cool and well made. The only thing I don't like about them is that stupid headlight design.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 21, 2023, 12:02:15 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2023, 12:40:34 PM
You shouldn't talk about your friend that way.
Rivians are really cool and well made. The only thing I don't like about them is that stupid headlight design.
He now hates it, it’s been nothing but problems. I suspect he’ll unload it (if he hasn’t already).
Post by: nddons on September 21, 2023, 12:56:04 PM
Guess I'm not a Greennie cuz that's not why I don't like them.Good thing computers never break and the drive motors never have problems.
I do think they are a good compromise . . .
But they still need oil changes, spark plugs, emissions control systems, engine computers, fuel injection systems, transmissions, drive shafts, differentials, radiators, and all the other things that makes EVs so much better than ICE cars.
Post by: Little Joe on September 21, 2023, 01:20:36 PM
Good thing computers never break and the drive motors never have problems.Of course those things break. And by building a hybrid you are adding a lot more things to break, and you are adding a lot more weight.
Post by: Anthony on September 21, 2023, 04:21:54 PM
Of course those things break. And by building a hybrid you are adding a lot more things to break, and you are adding a lot more weight.
No they're not. Hybrids have smaller, lighter batteries because they can run on either ICE or battery power.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2023, 04:38:01 PM
Devastating risks of transitioning to 'green' energy: Mining for electric-powering minerals has left 23 million people exposed to toxic waste, 500,000km of rivers polluted and 16 million acres of farmland ruined
Toxic byproducts of metals mining also pollute 10.7 million acres of flood plains
Researchers estimate the pollution also impacts 5.72 million livestock worldwide
Scientists hope their new global database and mapping tool helps stem the tide
Quote
Tens of millions of people — more than live in the entire state of Florida — are now exposed to toxic water runoff from metal mining, a new study has found.
The report lays bare the devastating impacts that can follow a reckless transition to 'green' energy, compounding the ecological damage wrought by over 150 years of drilling and mining for fossil fuels.
The researchers found that 23 million people worldwide, as well as 5.72 million in livestock, over 16 million acres of irrigated farmland and over 297,800 miles worth of rivers have been contaminated by mining's toxic byproducts seeping into the water.
This metal mining includes many so-called 'rare earth elements' essential to the manufacture of high-tech electronics, solar cells, wind turbines and all the batteries needed to store sustainable 'green' energy (and power electric cars and iPhones).
While the new study focuses on environmental impacts, global metals mining has recently faced shocking lawsuits against major tech firms, including Apple, Google, Microsoft and Tesla, over child slavery in the Congo, where 70 percent of the industry's cobalt is sourced.
'Rapid growth in global metal mining is crucial if the world is to make the transition to green energy,' noted Chris Thomas, a zoologist at the University of Lincoln whose specialty is in spatial ecology and threats to the global water supply.
Thomas led the analysis and modelling work for the new study, which was published today in Science.
Thomas and his colleagues have developed a new database, supported by on-the-ground testing, which now maps the hundreds of square miles' worth of rivers and floodplains contaminated by these industrial processes across the globe.
The devastation wrought by this contamination, they found, was widespread, affecting approximately 297,800 miles (479,200 km) of river systems total and over 63,000 square-miles (164,000 sq-km) of floodplains worldwide.
But, North America stood out as the most affected, at 123,280 miles of tainted river systems, and approximately 10.7 million acres of polluted floodplains.
But the damage was not much better in South America with 50,766 miles of rivers and over 9.5 million acres of floodplain impacted; nor in Asia with about 37,842 river-miles and about 8.3 million acres of floodplain polluted by metal mining waste.
In terms of potency of local damage, however, the the scientists saved their harshest criticisms for 'the environmental legacy of historical mining,' which they said was 'most problematic in western Europe,' where long-abandoned old mines have left lasting environmental damage.
'Much of the estimated global contamination we have mapped is a legacy from the industrial era,' Thomas said in a press statement. 'Rightly, modern mining is being encouraged to prioritize environmental sustainability.'
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2023, 05:02:17 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 21, 2023, 09:23:23 PM
The underlined claim is outright baloney by the Daily Mail. They link to the Science article whose abstract makes clear that those numbers encompass "all known metal mining sites and intact and failed tailings storage facilities." In other words, the extraction of all metals that make our modern way of life possible, not just metals for EVs.
Devastating risks of transitioning to 'green' energy: Mining for electric-powering minerals has left 23 million people exposed to toxic waste, 500,000km of rivers polluted and 16 million acres of farmland ruined
An example, IMHO, of how to enable the authoritarians by adopting their tactic of inventing bullshit. No wonder a lot of people now have problems telling the good guys from the bad guys.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2023, 05:16:02 PM
EV Battery Factory Will Require So Much Energy It Needs A Coal Plant To Power It
Quote
A $4 billion Panasonic electric vehicle battery factory in De Soto, Kansas, will help satisfy the Biden administration’s efforts to get everyone into an EV.
It also will help extend the life of a coal-fired power plant.
Resource Adequacy
Panasonic broke ground on the facility last year. The Japanese company was slated to receive $6.8 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act, which has been pouring billions into electric vehicles and battery factories as part of its effort to transition America away from fossil fuels.
The Kansas City Star reports that the factory will require between 200 and 250 megawatts of electricity to operate. That’s roughly the amount of power needed for a small city.
In testimony to the Kansas City Corporation Commission, which is the state’s equivalent of the Wyoming Public Service Commission, a representative of Evergy, the utility serving the factory, said that the 4 million-square-foot Panasonic facility creates “near term challenges from a resource adequacy perspective,” according to the Kansas City Star.
As a result, the utility will continue to burn coal at a power plant near Lawrence, Kansas, and it will delay plants to transition units at the plant to natural gas.
Not Happy
According to the Kansas City Star, environmentalists are not happy about that.
The situation reflects an ignored fact about EVs — they require enormous amounts of energy to produce.
A 15-pound lithium-ion battery holds about the same amount of energy as a pound of oil. To make that battery requires 7,000 pounds of rock and dirt to get the minerals that go into that battery. The average EV battery weighs around 1,000 pounds.
All of that mining and factory processing produces a lot more carbon dioxide emissions than a gas-powered car, so EVs have to be driven around 50,000 to 60,000 miles before there’s a net reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.
So, as more factories are built in the U.S. to supply EV manufacturers, there will be higher demands on the grid for power.
Growing Recognition
Emily Arthun, CEO of the American Coal Council, was in Washington, D.C., this week speaking with federal lawmakers and members of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
Arthun, who lives in Gillette, told Cowboy State Daily that there’s a growing recognition of the need for coal to supply baseload power.
“I met with senators and representatives who understand that we’re going to need coal for far longer than people are talking about,” Arthun said.
The Inflation Reduction Act aims to produce more green energy industries here in America, and Arthun said there’s a growing recognition that these are energy intensive.
“People are starting to understand that energy needs are increasing, and these premature [coal-fired power plant] closures are a liability,” Arthun said.
Lipstick On A Pig
Rep. Cyrus Western, R-Big Horn, told Cowboy State Daily that many people are unaware of how energy is produced to create a reliable grid.
“Kilowatts don’t just fall out of the sky,” he said.
Besides the energy demand for the industrial capacity in America, there will be more demands placed on the grid to charge all these vehicles.
“That electricity has got to come from somewhere. It’s not going to come from solar farms and wind turbines,” he said.
Western said renewables are a great source of “auxiliary supplemental power,” but without a solid base load to ensure a reliable energy supply, they don’t work. These are realities that some still don’t want to accept.
“This administration wants to put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig,” he said.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2023, 06:23:52 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 23, 2023, 03:52:26 AM
Quote
“I met with senators and representatives who understand that we’re going to need coal for far longer than people are talking about,” Arthun said.
The Inflation Reduction Act aims to produce more green energy industries here in America, and Arthun said there’s a growing recognition that these are energy intensive.
“People are starting to understand that energy needs are increasing, and these premature [coal-fired power plant] closures are a liability,” Arthun said.
Well, duh, most people with half a brain can see that. So, the Inflation Reduction Acrt's purpose is to print more money so inflation increases, and we burn more fossil fuels? Got it. ::)
Post by: Rush on September 23, 2023, 04:45:40 AM
Well, duh, most people with half a brain can see that.
Therein lies the problem.
Post by: Bamaflyer on September 23, 2023, 05:56:06 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 06:11:09 AM
Quote
Electric vehicle (EV) sales are up, but that may come with unintended—if not lethal—consequences. EVs pose many problems that are not well-known including potentially dangerous conditions in commercial parking garages and the fire risks associated with lithium-ion batteries used by EV's.
Electric vehicles are becoming more prevalent, and being scrutinized for their potential dangers, even when they are not being driven. In July of this year a cargo ship caught fire off the Netherlands' coast after 3,500 new vehicles caught fire while in transport. One crew member was killed, and investigators said "the fire started in the battery of an electric car."
Flammability aside, EVs elicit concerns because of just how heavy they are compared to traditional internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Many older parking garages were simply not built with the weights of modern cars in mind, let alone EVs. The lithium-ion batteries that power new EVs account for a large portion of the weight discrepancy with traditional cars. For example, according to automotive trade journal Jobber News, "An electric vehicle can weigh much more than its internal combustion engine counterpart — the Ford F-150 Lightning can weigh 2,000-3,000 pounds more than the ICE version."
The battery of an electric GMC Hummer weighs approximately 2,900 pounds, or about the same as an entire 2022 Honda Civic.
Post by: Anthony on September 24, 2023, 08:01:34 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 08:13:43 AM
^^^^^Holy crap! I knew they were heavier but not that much heavier.
Cliff will be along momentarily to fact check for us..............
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 24, 2023, 08:30:08 AM
Cliff will be along momentarily to fact check for us..............A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2023, 01:04:33 PM
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
Is that why we don't hear when the wife/GF talks?
Post by: Little Joe on September 24, 2023, 01:17:51 PM
Is that why we don't hear when the wife/GF talks?Yes, but on the flip side, when I talk to my wife, it definitely doesn't go in one ear and out the other.
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2023, 01:26:29 PM
Yes, but on the flip side, when I talk to my wife, it definitely doesn't go in one ear and out the other.
Are you saying it is collected and stored permanently to be brought out at any point in the future to be used against you?
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 01:28:32 PM
Quote
While EVs are all the rage with automakers right now (if not with their customers), their green bona fides have increasingly come into question over the past few years. SF Gate has a reminder that, when it comes to Tesla, pulling back the curtain even a little reveals all sorts of dirty secrets.
The Harris Ranch Supercharger sits at on a beautiful resort-style ranch between San Francisco and Los Angeles and provides good food and plenty of charging spots for folks making the six-hour journey between the two cities. Tesla hails the Harris Ranch site as the largest bank of EV chargers in the world at 98 spots, but one journalist found that the Superchargers are often supplemented by a small diesel plant. From SF Gate:
The Central California charging station is such a big deal that Tesla clubs even make it an appointment destination. Yes, they’ll rally-style drive to it just to honor its lineage and size.
But as with many Tesla-related things, there is a secret, thinly obscured by an Oz-like curtain, at the Harris Ranch Supercharger. Hidden in plain sight across the way from the Harris Ranch Supercharger’s main stations, behind a Shell station, is a small diesel plant that has helped power Tesla’s footprint.
The news was first broken by investigative journalist Edward Niedermeyer. In May 2015, Niedermeyer drove from his Oregon home to Harris Ranch to see whether “Musk’s latest bit of dream weaving could stand up to reality.”
What Niedermeyer reportedly found was a little different from the company’s clean energy claims.
“I discovered that Tesla’s battery swap station was not in fact being made available to owners who regularly drove between California’s two largest cities,” Niedermeyer wrote in a May 2022 exposé for Slate. “Instead, the company was running diesel generators to power additional Superchargers (the kind that take 30 to 60 minutes to recharge a battery) to handle the holiday rush, their exhaust mingling with the unmistakable smell of bulls—t.”
The fact that a small diesel plant was helping power the additional chargers kicked off a series of events that unraveled the myth of Elon Musk for Niedermeyer: “Once you stop taking Musk at his word,” he wrote, “his heroic popular image evaporates, and a far darker reality begins to reveal itself.”
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 24, 2023, 01:45:05 PM
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-supercharger-location-diesel-generator-report-1850804146https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/ (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/)
"As noted above it’s a regurgitated story from 2015 involving the test battery swap site. [...] It was just a temporary generator that was used for three months while testing the battery swap tech. It started in March of 2015 and was over by June 2015."
Posters on that site dissect the claims of that old story.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 01:46:26 PM
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/ (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/harris-ranch-superchargers-powered-by-diesel-generators-really.310833/)
"As noted above it’s a regurgitated story from 2015 involving the test battery swap site. [...] It was just a temporary generator that was used for three months while testing the battery swap tech. It started in March of 2015 and was over by June 2015."
Posters on that site dissect the claims of that old story.
Thanks Cliff.
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2023, 02:07:04 PM
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-supercharger-location-diesel-generator-report-1850804146
Musk is a bit whacked. I still love him for what he did with Twitter, even though the censorship isn’t completely gone. I’m giving him the benefit of doubt that he needs to placate advertisers somewhat, but his choice of Linda Yaca -whatever was mind boggling.
He’s got a lot of very unrealistic pie in the sky ideas and he has a knack of applying his brilliant mind plus leadership ability to make them reality.
But in my opinion some of them are just unrealistic dreams. I don’t think we will ever colonize Mars. There’s no need to, we have more than enough resources here on earth to sustain us forever. Musk was taken in by the idea (as all of us were at one point) that human overpopulation was a problem that needed to be solved. Turns out it’s getting solved automatically. No need to move a bunch of us to another planet that is totally hostile to us. The expense to get people there and then sustain them is prohibitive. That’s not going to work with a contracting world economy.
Same with “climate change”. Musk, remember, was a Democrat. He bought the hoax. He is kind of on the spectrum too. He can be manipulated at times by people who don’t have his best interest at heart. He gets very focused on his interesting projects and has the mind and resources to make them real. That doesn’t mean they’re actual pragmatic solutions in the long run. EVs are the perfect example. Solves one problem (ICE exhaust in cities, mostly) while creating other problems, moving the environmental impact to other locations and creating other types of problems.
Unfortunately the political class has latched onto EVs as part of their overall “climate crisis” grift. I have no problem with EVs being sold to us voluntarily but huge problems being forced to switch to them.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 24, 2023, 02:11:22 PM
Thanks Cliff.Anytime Norm.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2023, 02:15:41 PM
...
But in my opinion some of them are just unrealistic dreams. I don’t think we will ever colonize Mars. There’s no need to, we have more than enough resources here on earth to sustain us forever. ...
Overpopulation isn't the justification for going into space. As a species, why should we limit ourselves to this one bit of dirt and water?
And your claim that we have enough resources "forever"... um, nope. But maybe I'm taking a longer view than you.
Oh btw - eventually our sun will fry this little planet.
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2023, 02:49:49 PM
Overpopulation isn't the justification for going into space. As a species, why should we limit ourselves to this one bit of dirt and water?
And your claim that we have enough resources "forever"... um, nope. But maybe I'm taking a longer view than you.
Oh btw - eventually our sun will fry this little planet.
I was being hyperbolic when I said “forever”. What I meant was as long as we humans exist on this planet.
Going into space for fun and knowledge is fine. But trying to set up permanent residence on a planet we didn’t evolve to survive on is completely impractical.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2023, 03:07:31 PM
I was being hyperbolic when I said “forever”. What I meant was as long as we humans exist on this planet.
Going into space for fun and knowledge is fine. But trying to set up permanent residence on a planet we didn’t evolve to survive on is completely impractical.
So, you are ok with the human species dying off. :-/
It’s not “for fun and knowledge”. The species that doesn’t explore might just as well curl up its toes and die
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 03:30:43 PM
Most likely after everyone here is long gone.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2023, 03:34:00 PM
Post by: Little Joe on September 24, 2023, 03:38:34 PM
Are you saying it is collected and stored permanently to be brought out at any point in the future to be used against you?There is that.
But I was referring to the times when I offer her my very excellent advice and it doesn't even appear to enter her consciousness, as if I was background noise.
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2023, 05:55:34 PM
So, you are ok with the human species dying off. :-/
It’s not “for fun and knowledge”. The species that doesn’t explore might just as well curl up its toes and die
All species eventually become extinct or evolve into something else. There’s no reason to think we will be the exception. And even if we somehow manage to achieve equilibrium, neither dying off nor evolving into some other species, why do you think travel to other planets would be necessary to do that?
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2023, 05:58:57 PM
There is that.
But I was referring to the times when I offer her my very excellent advice and it doesn't even appear to enter her consciousness, as if I was background noise.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2023, 06:09:37 PM
All species eventually become extinct or evolve into something else. There’s no reason to think we will be the exception. And even if we somehow manage to achieve equilibrium, neither dying off nor evolving into some other species, why do you think travel to other planets would be necessary to do that?
one might ask why bother learning to fly. There is no where we can travel that requires flying.
If your spirit, your heart, your mind, your soul doesn't yearn to explore space, then there is not explaining it to you.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 24, 2023, 07:10:16 PM
Post by: nddons on September 24, 2023, 07:53:56 PM
Of course those things break. And by building a hybrid you are adding a lot more things to break, and you are adding a lot more weight.I’m not advocating for hybrids, I’m questioning your take that EVs are virtually Mx free.
Post by: Rush on September 25, 2023, 03:13:59 AM
one might ask why bother learning to fly. There is no where we can travel that requires flying.
If your spirit, your heart, your mind, your soul doesn't yearn to explore space, then there is not explaining it to you.
Could have sworn I’ve said several times on this forum that I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a little kid.
The drive to explore space has nothing to do with whether it would be practical or necessary to move humanity to a distant planet where we’d have to create our very air to breathe never mind water, food and a survivable temperature range. If such a planet that already had those things existed it would also already have lifeforms that would be pathogenic or predatory to us and vice versa, and would be in another star system that would take years to reach at best, but more likely centuries.
Hollywood indoctrinated us with the idea exploring space and colonizing it elsewhere is like Europeans taking ships to the Americas. Nothing could be further from the truth. Having said that, I support our space program for the purpose of, like I said, fun and knowledge, but also for space based weapons, and to develop an asteroid defense system.
But the moon and Mars as permanent settlements? We haven’t even settled our own southernmost continent. It’s too hostile. Just a few scientific researchers stay there. I predict we’ll end up doing the same thing on the moon and Mars and that’s it. Just research stations where the crew will have to rotate back to earth to keep from going insane.
But I could be wrong. I’m probably not as smart as Elon Musk.
Post by: Little Joe on September 25, 2023, 04:03:52 AM
I think most people could say that, but very few of his detractors will admit it.
But I could be wrong. I’m probably not as smart as Elon Musk.
Post by: Rush on September 25, 2023, 04:16:58 AM
I think most people could say that, but very few of his detractors will admit it.
And the “probably” was tongue in cheek.
Post by: Username on September 25, 2023, 05:59:45 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 25, 2023, 06:24:36 AM
Post by: Little Joe on September 25, 2023, 06:44:38 AM
Of course if the earth heats up too much the. The Arctic maybe one paradise.
Post by: nddons on September 25, 2023, 07:09:30 AM
It's great to explore strange new worlds. Colonizing Mars or Europa are neat dreams and perhaps a sexy excuse to explore. But there are vast areas on Earth that are unexplored and could be colonized more easily. Rush mentioned Antarctica. But there is a lot of the far north and undersea that can be explored and colonized much more easily and cheaply. But saying that I'm going to colonize some small island in northern Canada, while much cheaper and way more feasible and more likely to be a two-way trip, is not as exciting as saying I'm going to colonize Mars. Building a mosquito defense system is the hard part about colonizing northern Canada.“Mosquito Defense System” - I’m using that when I retire to the Wisconsin Northwoods.
.
Post by: Anthony on September 25, 2023, 07:13:40 AM
“Mosquito Defense System” - I’m using that when I retire to the Wisconsin Northwoods.
You can call it "Star Scratch".
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 25, 2023, 07:39:37 AM
"Why? Why does anybody want to go anywhere? Why did the bear go round the mountain? To see what he could see! I've never seen the Rings. That's reason enough to go anywhere. The race has been doing it for all time. The dull ones stay home—and the bright ones stir around and try to see what trouble they can dig up. It's the human pattern. It doesn't need a reason, any more than a flat cat needs a reason to buzz. Why anything?"
Post by: Rush on September 25, 2023, 07:41:55 AM
It'll be easier to colonize Mars than to deal with the EPA et al when utilizing (exploiting?) unused places on earth. Unless we are foolish enough to take the EPA et al with us to Mars.
Now that I agree with!!!
Post by: nddons on September 25, 2023, 08:52:14 AM
It'll be easier to colonize Mars than to deal with the EPA et al when utilizing (exploiting?) unused places on earth. Unless we are foolish enough to take the EPA et al with us to Mars.I guarantee you the EPA will be involved. The left is already up in arms about human litter on Mars.
“Mars is getting a taste of human life before any person has ever even been there.
“NASA reported Wednesday that its Perseverance Mars Rover had spotted “something unexpected”: a piece of litter on the surface of the red planet.
The debris was a piece of a thermal blanket that NASA scientists believe may have fallen off during the rover’s descent. The robot explorer was wrapped in the material to control its temperature.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mars-litter-nasa-perseverance_n_62aac364e4b0cdccbe593e05
“Mars is littered with 15,694 pounds of human trash from 50 years of robotic exploration”
https://theconversation.com/mars-is-littered-with-15-694-pounds-of-human-trash-from-50-years-of-robotic-exploration-188881
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 25, 2023, 10:50:27 AM
omg - "15,694 pounds"?
Let's see. Mars has a mass of about 6.39 × 10^23 kg. 15,694 pounds is just under 7119 kg.
So, that's is about 1.11 x 10^-18 percent of the mass of Mars...
Post by: Number7 on September 25, 2023, 11:05:24 AM
omg - "15,694 pounds"?
Let's see. Mars has a mass of about 6.39 × 10^23 kg. 15,694 pounds is just under 7119 kg.
So, that's is about 1.11 x 10^-20 percent of the mass of Mars...
See???
That PROVES we need a federal (intergalactic) waste control agency to stop the destruction of mars by unrestricted disposal o space debris.
I nominate bernie sanders as official Mars commissar of waste control.
Post by: Username on September 25, 2023, 11:13:33 AM
Best set of books I read... A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Loved the covers!
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2023, 01:32:49 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 28, 2023, 05:44:01 AM
This is a travel restriction mandate for the non elite.
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2023, 08:31:18 AM
https://www.the-sun.com/news/9198363/explosion-ev-batteries-airport-uzbekistan/
Quote
A BOY of 15 has been killed in a giant explosion feared to have been triggered by detonating electric car batteries.
At least 163 were also injured following the huge blast in a customs warehouse near Tashkent Airport in Uzbekistan in the early hours, which was felt up to 20 miles away.
Shocking footage shows the explosion at 2.43am local time, which caused damage to hundreds of houses and other buildings over a vast area.
Batteries for electric cars exploded at the airport warehouse, it is understood.
Dozens of ambulances ferried the wounded to hospitals and at least five children suffered wounds from shattered glass.
A 15-year-old boy died after a frame collapsed on his head due to the explosion.
It is unclear how many people were in the warehouse when it exploded.
Initial reports suggested a plane crash, forcing authorities in the ex-Soviet state to deny this was the cause of the thunderous explosion that shook much of the city.
The Uzbek Interior Ministry later claimed lightning struck a warehouse where electric cars and batteries were stored, sparking the blast and fire.
But there were later doubts that lightning had been a factor in the explosion.
Post by: nddons on September 28, 2023, 09:31:23 AM
Obviously just a coincidence......or propaganda.(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xUStFKHmuFPYk/giphy.gif)
https://www.the-sun.com/news/9198363/explosion-ev-batteries-airport-uzbekistan/
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2023, 11:24:42 AM
Quote
Major delays were reported Tuesday at Raleigh-Durham International Airport after a Tesla caught fire.
A spokesperson from RDU told WRAL News there were no injuries after the Tesla Model S caught fire around 5 a.m. near the parking garage on John Brantley Boulevard.
"Expect heavy traffic accessing the terminals and parking garage on John Brantley Boulevard due to a vehicle fire earlier this morning," RDU officials said Tuesday morning on X. "Lanes are open but traffic is moving slowly."
Around noon, burn markings remained near the entrance for Terminal 1. The frame of the car was seen being towed away.
In the comments of the post, there are several videos of a car completely engulfed in flames.
Post by: Number7 on September 28, 2023, 12:09:56 PM
There is no link that I have because it was an AM radio news story, but it got my full attention.
One other note is that I don’t know if it was all electric cats or just some, and if the warning was for a specific area.
Post by: Rush on September 28, 2023, 02:12:53 PM
https://www.wral.com/story/tesla-catches-fire-at-rdu-leading-to-backups-and-missed-flights/21067377/
That’s my hometown airport. How come in 55 years I’ve never once heard of an ICE car catching fire in the RDU parking lot, yet media tells me car fires are more common in ICE cars than EVs?
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2023, 02:25:31 PM
That’s my hometown airport. How come in 55 years I’ve never once heard of an ICE car catching fire in the RDU parking lot, yet media tells me car fires are more common in ICE cars than EVs?
Media lies.
Post by: Little Joe on September 28, 2023, 03:11:47 PM
That’s my hometown airport. How come in 55 years I’ve never once heard of an ICE car catching fire in the RDU parking lot, yet media tells me car fires are more common in ICE cars than EVs?The media doesn't tell you about all the ICE car fires. I was at a laundry mat about 30 years ago and the car parked next to mine started burning. In minutes it was fully engulfed. I slid in the passenger side of my car and moved it. In retrospect, that was stupid. I should have let the insurance company buy my car.
There might also be the thing about billions of Ice cars and car fires are not news any more whereas people LOVE to tell about EV fires.
But other than that, yeah, battery fires are a problem. We should all ditch our cellphones and cordless drills.
Post by: Rush on September 28, 2023, 05:31:06 PM
The media doesn't tell you about all the ICE car fires. I was at a laundry mat about 30 years ago and the car parked next to mine started burning. In minutes it was fully engulfed. I slid in the passenger side of my car and moved it. In retrospect, that was stupid. I should have let the insurance company buy my car.
There might also be the thing about billions of Ice cars and car fires are not news any more whereas people LOVE to tell about EV fires.
But other than that, yeah, battery fires are a problem. We should all ditch our cellphones and cordless drills.
Yes that's actually a thing. One of our neighbors house burned completely down, house and garage. Fortunately no one was hurt but they lost everything. At first they thought it was a clogged dryer vent but the investigation found it was a battery for some small tool he had in the garage, his weed eater or something.
Post by: bflynn on September 29, 2023, 02:56:21 AM
Cars catch fire. It’s rare but it happens. Electric batteries in cars might occur at a slightly more frequent rate.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 29, 2023, 07:06:44 AM
Weird, it reminded me of this: https://abc7ny.com/newark-liberty-international-airport-parking-garage-fire-car-cars-on/5114223/
Cars catch fire. It’s rare but it happens. Electric batteries in cars might occur at a slightly more frequent rate.
or the electric batteries in EVs enables fires that are more difficult to contain.
Post by: Number7 on September 29, 2023, 07:31:37 AM
Weird, it reminded me of this: https://abc7ny.com/newark-liberty-international-airport-parking-garage-fire-car-cars-on/5114223/
Cars catch fire. It’s rare but it happens. Electric batteries in cars might occur at a slightly more frequent rate.
It is so odd that hyundai and kia didn't warn owners of the gasoline powered cars to keep them outside.
only the ev's.
Maybe they didn't read your post.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 29, 2023, 07:44:39 AM
It is so odd that hyundai and kia didn't warn owners of the gasoline powered cars to keep them outside.Actually they did a couple of years ago when the ABS systems in use were catching on fire.
only the ev's.
Maybe they didn't read your post.
Post by: Anthony on September 29, 2023, 11:21:22 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2023, 01:48:05 PM
Reason? They (fedgov) don't want employees hanging out and waiting at charge stations while on duty. Said it would project a bad image and also cited loss of productivity.
Post by: Little Joe on September 29, 2023, 02:05:12 PM
I have a good friend who works for fedgov. He recently showed me a memo that prohibits fedgov employees from renting EV's in the line of their work.What was the date on that memo?
Reason? They (fedgov) don't want employees hanging out and waiting at charge stations while on duty. Said it would project a bad image and also cited loss of productivity.
https://www.govexec.com/management/2020/10/president-signs-bill-allow-electric-vehicle-charges-government-purchase-cards/168967/:~:text=On%20Thursday,%20President%20Trump%20signed%20into%20law%20a,can%20save%20taxpayer%20dollars%20and%20improve%20energy%20efficiency.
Quote
President Signs Bill to Allow Electric Vehicle Charges on Government Purchase Cards
The bipartisan bill saves taxpayers money and boosts energy efficiency, senators say.
October 2, 2020
edit: On closer reading, the article states "government owned vehicles", not rental cars.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2023, 02:18:45 PM
What was the date on that memo?
https://www.govexec.com/management/2020/10/president-signs-bill-allow-electric-vehicle-charges-government-purchase-cards/168967/:~:text=On%20Thursday,%20President%20Trump%20signed%20into%20law%20a,can%20save%20taxpayer%20dollars%20and%20improve%20energy%20efficiency.
edit: On closer reading, the article states "government owned vehicles", not rental cars.
Few days ago.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 06:43:20 AM
Rooftop Solar Power Has a Dark Side
Quote
This year, during the heat of summer, when temperatures in New York surpassed 90°F, the 22 solar panels on the roof of my house were doing absolutely nothing.
This is not something I learned until September, four months after my husband and I bought this house with a purportedly functional leased solar system in upstate New York, months after logging into a website that inaccurately told us that the panels were working, months after we forked over $6,000 to prepay the remainder of the 20-year lease to the company supposed to be maintaining the solar panels, Spruce Power, which happens to be the largest privately held owner and operator of residential solar in America.
A third-party technician dispatched to our house by Spruce in September blamed squirrels that chewed on some important wires. Spruce blamed the previous owners, who they said fell behind on lease payments; in September, Spruce told us it had disconnected the system previously but that did not explain why they’d taken our money to prepay the lease on the panels in June. The panels are still not working to full capacity. (Made aware that this article was in the works, Spruce said in September that it will repay us for the months the panels were not working.)
We are not alone. Obscured by the recent rush to sign up households for rooftop solar and speed up the electrification of America are those who already have solar panels on their roof that do not work. Many were early adopters who did the “right” thing for the planet, installing solar before the expanded financial incentives that came out of the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA). Because solar was more expensive in the 2010s, many entered into leases with solar companies to defray upfront costs, and many were left in the lurch when those companies went out of business. Often, their solar leases were packaged and sold, alongside thousands of others, to private equity companies and other investors who were not incentivized to ensure, years into the leases, that service was good or that panels even worked.
Read more: How The Inflation Re
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2023, 06:47:54 AM
https://time.com/6317339/rooftop-solar-power-failure/
Rooftop Solar Power Has a Dark Side
Solar panels on your home is full of scammers, you have to be really careful.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 07:05:13 AM
Solar panels on your home is full of scammers, you have to be really careful.The dark side of solar panels,
is NOT the solar panels.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 07:35:22 AM
The dark side of solar panels,
is NOT the solar panels.
It is. Once again, in a rush to go "green", these are pushed as miracle energy devices. Never mind the upkeep and maintenance, never mind the installation cost.
With power grid electric, the house is built and hooked into the system. Virtually no upkeep or maintenance required of the homeowner. Solar, on the other hand requires upkeep and maintenance. And solar panels deteriorate over time.
If these green idiots were really concerned about clean energy, they would be pushing for nuclear power plants and updating the grid systems.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 07:42:52 AM
It is. Once again, in a rush to go "green", these are pushed as miracle energy devices.The problem is with those in government that mandate and subsidize it.
Quote
ever mind the upkeep and maintenance, never mind the installation cost.So what. My airplane requires upkeep and maintenance. In fact, so do my shoes and just about everything else I own.
Quote
With power grid electric, the house is built and hooked into the system. Virtually no upkeep or maintenance required of the homeowner. Solar, on the other hand requires upkeep and maintenance.How about those bills that keep going up and up every month?
Quote
If these green idiots were really concerned about clean energy, they would be pushing for nuclear power plants and updating the grid systems.I agree with that, but not ONLY that.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 07:59:01 AM
The problem is with those in government that mandate and subsidize it.
So what. My airplane requires upkeep and maintenance. In fact, so do my shoes and just about everything else I own.
How about those bills that keep going up and up every month?
I agree with that, but not ONLY that.
Those bills going up and up are because our rogue government is forcing that due to stricter regulations and cutting off access to fossil fuels. Remove those barriers, and the price comes down. Let the free market dictate cost, not government.
So in the last twenty years of home ownership, how much have you spent on maintaining your electric system? Not upgrading, but actual maintenance to keep it going. Now, compare that cost versus installing a system that requires constant maintenance, and will eventually over time deteriorate and have to be replaced.
The greenies mantra that green energy is cheaper is total bullshit. Charging EV's is more expensive than buying petroleum based fuel. Wind power suffers from high installation cost and maintenance to a system that eventually has to be replaced, again at a staggering cost. Solar is no better.
With all of the money being thrown away on wind and solar, we could have clean efficient nuclear.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 08:31:57 AM
Those bills going up and up are because our rogue government is forcing that due to stricter regulations and cutting off access to fossil fuels. Remove those barriers, and the price comes down. Let the free market dictate cost, not government.Good luck with that.
Quote
So in the last twenty years of home ownership, how much have you spent on maintaining your electric system? Not upgrading, but actual maintenance to keep it going. Now, compare that cost versus installing a system that requires constant maintenance, and will eventually over time deteriorate and have to be replaced.In the past two years I have spent over 7k (or $3.5k/yr) for electricity. Multiply that by 20 years and get $70k but we all know electricity has gone up in 20 years so lets say $35k.
Also, I had a tree fall on my riser about 12 years ago during a hurricane. That cost me around $2,200.
So instead of around $20k (which was my quote to put in solar in 2010) I have paid around $37k for grid power. And if I had done solar, my power would be $0 going forward.
Quote
The greenies mantra that green energy is cheaper is total bullshit. Charging EV's is more expensive than buying petroleum based fuel. Wind power suffers from high installation cost and maintenance to a system that eventually has to be replaced, again at a staggering cost. Solar is no better.When TMI had their problem, I had to take a huge detour driving from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh.
With all of the money being thrown away on wind and solar, we could have clean efficient nuclear.
One nuclear plant in Georgia has cost around $27Billion so far, and counting.
yeah, I know; blame it on greenies. But they are a fact of life we have to deal with.
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2023, 08:40:05 AM
The difference is solar panels transfer that risk to you instead of keeping it within the industry. Which might actually be a good thing. People don’t appreciate the price paid by energy industry workers so you can enjoy a comfortable civilized lifestyle.
Post by: jb1842 on September 30, 2023, 08:48:31 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 08:57:56 AM
Good luck with that.
So you oppose free markets?
In the past two years I have spent over 7k (or $3.5k/yr) for electricity. Multiply that by 20 years and get $70k but we all know electricity has gone up in 20 years so lets say $35k.
I didn't ask what you spent on electricity. I specifically asked what maintenance was required to keep your home electric system operational (new wires, circuit breakers, outlets, etc)
Also, I had a tree fall on my riser about 12 years ago during a hurricane. That cost me around $2,200.
Accidents happen. But again, we are talking routine maintenance on grid electric power versus new green deal solar.
So instead of around $20k (which was my quote to put in solar in 2010) I have paid around $37k for grid power. And if I had done solar, my power would be $0 going forward.
So you are alleging if you would have put in solar, you would have had zero maintenance and upkeep expenses?
When TMI had their problem, I had to take a huge detour driving from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh.
One nuclear plant in Georgia has cost around $27Billion so far, and counting.
yeah, I know; blame it on greenies. But they are a fact of life we have to deal with.
Three Mile Island is well documented with the failures, and that was 50+ years ago. Are you alleging we have the same problems today with nuclear?
You keep coping out with "that's just the way it is" while trying to convince others of all this green energy nonsense is the way to go. Then you try to justify how inefficient it is or all the additional cost, just like the new green deal cultist.
If these new green deal maniacs really and truly cared about the environment (they don't) you wouldn't be seeing all of this nonsense being shoved down everyone's throat. We are allowing people with no knowledge of what they are pushing and advocating to push us into a technology that really doesn't solve a problem they think exist.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 09:18:26 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-issues-restrictions-gas-furnaces-war-appliances
Biden admin issues restrictions on gas furnaces in latest war on appliances
Quote
The Biden administration announced its latest regulatory action targeting home appliances late Friday, this time targeting popular home gas-powered furnaces.
The Department of Energy (DOE) said the energy efficiency regulations would slash household utility costs by $1.5 billion on an annual basis while reducing greenhouse gas emissions from the residential sector. The proposal, according to the agency, require non-weatherized gas furnaces and those used in mobile homes to achieve a far higher level of efficiency than cheaper models on the market.
"At the direction of Congress, DOE is continuing to review and finalize energy standards for household appliances, such as residential furnaces, to lower costs for working families by reducing energy use and slashing harmful pollutants in homes across the nation," Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said in a statement.
"Today’s measure, along with this Administration’s past and planned energy efficiency actions, underscores President Biden’s commitment to save Americans money and deliver healthier communities," she continued.
DOE's finalized regulations, which are slated to go into effect in 2028, specifically require furnaces to achieve an annual fuel utilization efficiency (AFUE) of 95%, meaning manufacturers would only be allowed to sell furnaces that convert at least 95% of fuel into heat within six years. The current market standard AFUE for a residential furnace is 80%.
Because of the stringent AFUE requirements, the regulations would largely take non-condensing gas furnaces — which are generally less efficient, but cheaper — off the market. But consumers who replace their non-condensing furnace with a condensing furnace after the rule is implemented face hefty installation costs.
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
Solar is dangerous. I dropped a solar panel I was installing on my RV on my toe the week before Oskosh. It's still black and blue.
At least you were trying to do something useful. I jammed my toe stepping out of the shower and it stayed purple for weeks.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 30, 2023, 10:11:40 AM
So in the last twenty years of home ownership, how much have you spent on maintaining your electric system?That same house wiring exists for both grid supplied and local solar supplied electricity so your question makes no sense for comparison purposes. The maintenance overhead for grid supplied power is included in the grid electric bill.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 10:58:30 AM
That same house wiring exists for both grid supplied and local solar supplied electricity so your question makes no sense for comparison purposes. The maintenance overhead for grid supplied power is included in the grid electric bill.
Cliff,
The point is the grid is operated and maintained by an entity. If the wires break, a transformer blows, etc, the electric company repairs it.
For this solar scam, one has to buy or lease the panels, then they also have to maintain them. So factor in the money for the buy or lease, plus the money for maintenance, and eventual upgrades, and that cost savings isn't such a great deal after all. And by the article, lots os people have been duped into this solar fantasy not realizing just how expensive it actually is, just like EV's.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 11:35:20 AM
Cliff,You are really stretching it. Of course electric bills count as maintenance. See what happens to your reliability if you don't pay.
The point is the grid is operated and maintained by an entity. If the wires break, a transformer blows, etc, the electric company repairs it.
One way you pay someone else a fairly predictable amount every month to do the maintenance.
The other way you pay someone else to do the maintenance whenever there is a problem.
Sure. If you don't count the expenses of grid-connected power, then grid connected power is cheaper.
SMH.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 11:43:27 AM
You are really stretching it. Of course electric bills count as maintenance. See what happens to your reliability if you don't pay.
One way you pay someone else a fairly predictable amount every month to do the maintenance.
The other way you pay someone else to do the maintenance whenever there is a problem.
Sure. If you don't count the expenses of grid-connected power, then grid connected power is cheaper.
SMH.
Keep smacking your head.
A utility that offers service spreads the line maintenance out over thousands of subscribers. When you go buy into (or lease) these Chinese made solar panels, then any maintenance to that system is charged to you.
BTW, you are so gung ho on this green fantasy stuff, yet you have yet to do it yourself. Why?
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 11:45:25 AM
So you oppose free markets?Of course not, but you knew that.
My point, which you also know, is that no matter how much you want to get government out of it and return control to a free market,
it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. So good luck hoping for it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 11:50:11 AM
Keep smacking your head.My current house doesn't have enough south or southwest facing roof area for PV panels. What little practical roof space i have is taken up with solar pool heating panels, which I love and save me a ton of electric. They extend my shaded pool's swimming season. Before the panels we could only swim mid June to Mid September. Now we can swim late March to early November. And I have had zero maintenance fees in the past 7 years with them.
A utility that offers service spreads the line maintenance out over thousands of subscribers. When you go buy into (or lease) these Chinese made solar panels, then any maintenance to that system is charged to you.
BTW, you are so gung ho on this green fantasy stuff, yet you have yet to do it yourself. Why?
My next house will be designed with a roof maximized for solar.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 11:54:22 AM
My next house will be designed with a roof maximized for solar.
Well shoot, if you got the wife talked into buying a new house, maybe she'll get you an EV to go with it. ;)
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 11:54:54 AM
Keep smacking your head.The electric companies maintenance of generation and distribution infrastructure on a per customer basis are much much greater than a homeowner's maintenance of an individual system. Solar panels have no moving parts and no long distance transmission issues, like pole knocked being knocked down.
A utility that offers service spreads the line maintenance out over thousands of subscribers.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 11:55:45 AM
Well shoot, if you got the wife talked into buying a new house, maybe she'll get you an EV to go with it. ;)That's part of the plan.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 12:00:49 PM
The electric companies maintenance of generation and distribution infrastructure on a per customer basis are much much greater than a homeowner's maintenance of an individual system. Solar panels have no moving parts and no long distance transmission issues, like pole knocked being knocked down.
So once a solar panel is installed it will work forever and need absolutely no maintenance?
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 12:57:02 PM
So once a solar panel is installed it will work forever and need absolutely no maintenance?I keep looking for where I said that, but I can't find it.
Perhaps you can point it out.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 30, 2023, 01:00:12 PM
The point is the grid is operated and maintained by an entity. If the wires break, a transformer blows, etc, the electric company repairs it.If wire breakage is an issue it means you're pretty far from the power plant. Wire line maintenance is effectively non-existent with any on-site power generation. And running wires to homes is a non-trivial capital expense that gets amortized over many years (plus the need for utility easements across other people's property - something not needed for on-site power generation.)
The closest equivalent to transformers for on-site solar is a DC to AC inverter and other power-conditioning electronics. To avoid single-point failure on those one needs some form of redundancy; I believe multiple micro-inverters are one solution.
Speaking of wiring to the grid, the cost to run power from the grid gets pretty expensive for rural installs.
From How Much Does It Cost To Connect Electricity To A Rural Property? (https://www.mikkuandsons.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-connect-electricity-to-a-rural-property/):
Quote
The electrical company will give you free lines of service delivery, for example from the road to the place to 100 meters. But when you move further out with more poles, then more cable is needed. The cost can be $25 to $50 per foot.
Therefore, if you are a one-mile way from the road, this means you could be paying somewhere in the region of $125,000 and $250,000. Some public services websites even offer you to finance part of that cost up to APR from about 10%.
Solar panels with batteries would generally be cheaper.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
I keep looking for where I said that, but I can't find it.
Perhaps you can point it out.
You keep implying there is no maintenance needed on solar panels.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 01:02:46 PM
If wire breakage is an issue it means you're pretty far from the power plant. Wire line maintenance is effectively non-existent with any on-site power generation. And running wires to homes is a non-trivial capital expense that gets amortized over many years (plus the need for utility easements across other people's property - something not needed for on-site power generation.)
The closest equivalent to transformers for on-site solar is a DC to AC inverter and other power-conditioning electronics. To avoid single-point failure on those one needs some form of redundancy; I believe multiple micro-inverters are one solution.
Speaking of wiring to the grid, the cost to run power from the grid gets pretty expensive for rural installs.
From How Much Does It Cost To Connect Electricity To A Rural Property? (https://www.mikkuandsons.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-connect-electricity-to-a-rural-property/):
Solar panels with batteries would generally be cheaper.
Thanks Cliff.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 01:10:21 PM
You keep implying there is no maintenance needed on solar panels.No. You just keep making stuff up in your head to suit whatever point you are pushing.
I'm thoroughly convinced that most of this anti-solar bullshit is brought on by those on the right merely because those on the left like it.
I don't give a shit if the left likes it or not, or if the right hates it or not. I like it because it makes good sense, both logically and financially.
When I build my new house with a PV system and buy my EV, my monthly electric and fuel costs will practically disappear while yours keep escalating. I'll be able to pay for a lot of maintenance with the savings.
And as long as the world depends on fossil fuels, we will have to deal with rich Arab terrorists and crazy Russians.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
No. You just keep making stuff up in your head to suit whatever point you are pushing.
It's called a conversation. Those guys at PoA are right about how you are always getting your panties twisted up in threads,
I'm thoroughly convinced that most of this anti-solar bullshit is brought on by those on the right merely because those on the left like it.
I don't give a shit if the left likes it or not, or if the right hates it or not. I like it because it makes good sense, both logically and financially.
No, the anti green energy is coming from people who have looked at the evidence, and are calling bullshit on the fake promises being made.
When I build my new house with a PV system and buy my EV, my monthly electric and fuel costs will practically disappear while yours keep escalating. I'll be able to pay for a lot of maintenance with the savings.
Going totally off grid are ya? Depending on your location, you better be doing some heavy calculations on power needed versus power provided.
And as long as the world depends on fossil fuels, we will have to deal with rich Arab terrorists and crazy Russians.
Before January 2021 we were an energy independent country, enjoy low fuel cost and all it provided. We didn't depend on rich Arabs and crazy Russians.
Now we have shifted to high inflation and a regime that wants our energy cut off, or rationed. They are being led by a cult that promises Unicorns and rainbows if we just follow their advice.
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2023, 01:23:19 PM
No. You just keep making stuff up in your head to suit whatever point you are pushing.
I'm thoroughly convinced that most of this anti-solar bullshit is brought on by those on the right merely because those on the left like it.
I don't give a shit if the left likes it or not, or if the right hates it or not. I like it because it makes good sense, both logically and financially.
When I build my new house with a PV system and buy my EV, my monthly electric and fuel costs will practically disappear while yours keep escalating. I'll be able to pay for a lot of maintenance with the savings.
And as long as the world depends on fossil fuels, we will have to deal with rich Arab terrorists and crazy Russians.
The one thing that favors your solar panel powered home over the grid regardless of the cost difference is that you’re self sufficient. Relying on a collective grid that could go down from events beyond your control is a problem when we depend on electricity for our comfort and daily function if not our very survival.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 01:29:13 PM
The one thing that favors your solar panel powered home over the grid regardless of the cost difference is that you’re self sufficient. Relying on a collective grid that could go down from events beyond your control is a problem when we depend on electricity for our comfort and daily function if not our very survival.
Natural gas powered generators like sold by Generac function well and are reliable. Several days of clouds, like during a storm, cut down on solar generation, and if there is a storm, solar panels are likely damaged.
I've lived in tropical zones most of my life, and have rarely had grid failures for any significant amount of time. I've used backup generators and never had a problem.
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2023, 01:54:15 PM
Natural gas powered generators like sold by Generac function well and are reliable. Several days of clouds, like during a storm, cut down on solar generation, and if there is a storm, solar panels are likely damaged.
I've lived in tropical zones most of my life, and have rarely had grid failures for any significant amount of time. I've used backup generators and never had a problem.
Oh yes, I love our Generac whole house generator. There’s NG lines all over the place around here and they tend to be fine even after hurricanes and tropical storms take the power out for days. I will never again live without a whole house generator.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 01:54:50 PM
The one thing that favors your solar panel powered home over the grid regardless of the cost difference is that you’re self sufficient. Relying on a collective grid that could go down from events beyond your control is a problem when we depend on electricity for our comfort and daily function if not our very survival.That is the ONE thing?
Actually the ONE thing that I don't like about adding solar to my house is that so many solar panels are manufactured in China. But then you can say that about practically everything that gets manufactured.
The vulnerability of the grid is a national security nightmare. Solar panels on almost every roof would reduce that nightmare.
The money that Arab terrorists and other dictators around the world make off of fossil fuels is another security nightmare.
One of the biggest costs associated with residential electricity is distribution, ie the grid.
Our electric company (FPL) is currently petitioning for a double digit rate increase. People with solar panels are laughing.
Ok, there is one other bad thing about solar panels. Liberals like them. But that isn't bad enough to make me reject them.
Post by: Little Joe on September 30, 2023, 01:57:11 PM
Oh yes, I love our Generac whole house generator. There’s NG lines all over the place around here and they tend to be fine even after hurricanes and tropical storms take the power out for days. I will never again live without a whole house generator.When my sister and her husband built their house in Panama City, FL, they put in a Generac whole house generator.
Six weeks after closing, the eye of Cat 5 hurricane Michael passes over them. Their generator was blown off the slab and they were without power for about a m month.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2023, 01:58:39 PM
When my sister and her husband built their house in Panama City, FL, they put in a Generac whole house generator.
Six weeks after closing, the eye of Cat 5 hurricane Michael passes over them. Their generator was blown off the slab and they were without power for about a m month.
Sounds like a crappy installation job.
But hey, had they only installed solar panels on the roof.............oh wait....
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 30, 2023, 02:28:32 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 30, 2023, 03:17:22 PM
You are really stretching it. Of course electric bills count as maintenance. See what happens to your reliability if you don't pay.OK.
One way you pay someone else a fairly predictable amount every month to do the maintenance.
The other way you pay someone else to do the maintenance whenever there is a problem.
Sure. If you don't count the expenses of grid-connected power, then grid connected power is cheaper.
SMH.
But, that repair and maintenance is captured in your monthly bill. You must compare that to the total cost of owning and operatoring your own Solar power system plus its R&M and monthly reserve to replace the panels.
Also the vast majority of people also need Street Power from the utility because the solar can't generate enough to meet demand. So add that cost as well.
Post by: nddons on October 01, 2023, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 02, 2023, 10:21:38 PM
Quote
Rivian Automotive set out to build the ultimate electric vehicle for American consumers—a pickup truck with sports-car handling and a dizzying array of features.
Engineers gave the truck a beefy underlying metal frame for higher crash-test ratings and one of the most complicated suspension systems on the market for a smoother ride on- and off-road. It can go from zero to 60 miles an hour in 3 seconds. Rivian added pop-out flashlights stored away in the doors and a portable Bluetooth speaker.
All that comes at a cost. Rivian vehicles sell for over $80,000 on average. Yet they’re so expensive to build that in the second quarter the company lost $33,000 on every one it sold. That’s roughly the starting price of a base model Ford F-150.
When Rivian launched onto the electric-vehicle scene, industry watchers expected it to beat rivals to market and become the “Tesla of trucks.” Investors piled into its splashy market debut in 2021, when it raised nearly $12 billion in cash and became the U.S.’s largest IPO in years. For a short while, Rivian was worth more than Ford Motor and General Motors.
In two years, Rivian has blown through half of its $18 billion cash pile, in part because it struggled to master the nuts and bolts of manufacturing. While production is now growing and losses have narrowed, Rivian still loses money on its vehicle sales. In an industry known for narrow margins and tough competition, Rivian pays too much for parts and produces too few vehicles to cover its costs.
The company currently sells three models: the R1T pickup truck, the R1S SUV and an electric delivery van for Amazon.com. Rivian’s truck and its SUV, which share many parts, accounted for 83% of its August sales, according to Motor Intelligence data.
As of the end of September, Rivian had only built a total of around 65,000 vehicles, a fraction of what other car companies manufacture at a single U.S. factory in a year. Even with output increasing, Rivian’s factory in Normal, Ill., is operating at less than one-third of its build capacity. It aims to produce 52,000 vehicles this year.
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2023, 01:59:19 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 03, 2023, 04:47:34 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2023, 05:04:23 AM
Looking at cargurus.com I found 226 used Teslas in the Orlando area. Many are labeled "Selling Slowly" due to time on market and many have price reductions due to slow movement.
Post by: jb1842 on October 03, 2023, 05:32:25 AM
Pay attention to the used market. Lots of low miles EV's on the market now. These are from people that bought the hype, bought in and are now dumping them.
Looking at cargurus.com I found 226 used Teslas in the Orlando area. Many are labeled "Selling Slowly" due to time on market and many have price reductions due to slow movement.
I wonder if people down there are finally realizing that living in a state that gets hit by hurricanes and can lose power for weeks isn't the best place to have your life possibly depend on an electric vehicle.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2023, 05:35:19 AM
I wonder if people down there are finally realizing that living in a state that gets hit by hurricanes and can lose power for weeks isn't the best place to have your life possibly depend on an electric vehicle.
I just randomly picked it. But if you do searched around the country, you'll find similar results. The used car market is getting flooded with EV's, which is driving the price down and they're taking too long to sell, which in turn means dealers will offer less for trade.
Post by: Username on October 03, 2023, 06:23:36 AM
I just randomly picked it. But if you do searched around the country, you'll find similar results. The used car market is getting flooded with EV's, which is driving the price down and they're taking too long to sell, which in turn means dealers will offer less for trade.How about the batteries? A used EV may have much of the battery life drained, so the new owner could be facing a very expensive maintenance item. (I don't know anything about the battery life, but I'm willing to learn.)
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2023, 06:25:48 AM
How about the batteries? A used EV may have much of the battery life drained, so the new owner could be facing a very expensive maintenance item. (I don't know anything about the battery life, but I'm willing to learn.)
I have enough anxiety over my small handheld devices’ battery lives. I’m not messing with a big $$tens of thousands to replace one battery.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2023, 06:28:47 AM
How about the batteries? A used EV may have much of the battery life drained, so the new owner could be facing a very expensive maintenance item. (I don't know anything about the battery life, but I'm willing to learn.)
These cars I'm talking about are fairly new, low mileage examples. They do show you battery life remaining.
But with so much inventory in the used market, that's not moving, this is gutting prices for new. I predict that in the next 18 months, if we elect a republican administration and this green nonsense is done away, prices for these will crash.
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2023, 06:46:49 AM
How about the batteries? A used EV may have much of the battery life drained, so the new owner could be facing a very expensive maintenance item. (I don't know anything about the battery life, but I'm willing to learn.)
Lithium batteries as well as many others only have so many cycles in them, plus they degrade in performance, meaning range, as they are cycled and age. So it is wise to have the battery fully checked before you buy.
Post by: nddons on October 03, 2023, 06:56:46 AM
https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/rivian-ev-truck-electric-vehicle-8e8dc124?mod=djemalertNEWSI heard that article discussed on conservative talk radio in Milwaukee this morning. The host also read something that Ford is losing $60,000 for every electric F-150 they sell.
Democrats never heard of things called “business models” and “profits.” Just keep the subsidies flowing and they think they can accomplish their green goal, economics be damned.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2023, 07:04:52 AM
I heard that article discussed on conservative talk radio in Milwaukee this morning. The host also read something that Ford is losing $60,000 for every electric F-150 they sell.
Democrats never heard of things called “business models” and “profits.” Just keep the subsidies flowing and they think they can accomplish their green goal, economics be damned.
Socialism is not about economics. It's about confiscation. The socialist will continue to have their ICE SUV's and luxury cars, but once the EV debacle collapses, the peasants will be left with public transportation.
Post by: jb1842 on October 03, 2023, 07:05:26 AM
I heard that article discussed on conservative talk radio in Milwaukee this morning. The host also read something that Ford is losing $60,000 for every electric F-150 they sell.
Democrats never heard of things called “business models” and “profits.” Just keep the subsidies flowing and they think they can accomplish their green goal, economics be damned.
Do you think Biden brought that up to the UAW workers on strike when he went to support them in Michigan last week?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 03, 2023, 07:53:53 AM
(which, of course, would be yet another example of the government screwing up the marketplace)
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 03, 2023, 07:59:18 AM
Startups that succeed can take years to reach profitability.
FedEx was founded in 1971 and didn't make a profit until 1975.
Amazon was founded in 1994 and didn't make a profit until 2003.
Tesla was founded in 2003 and didn't make its first profit until 2013.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 03, 2023, 08:00:10 AM
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 03, 2023, 08:14:26 AM
How about the batteries? A used EV may have much of the battery life drained, so the new owner could be facing a very expensive maintenance item. (I don't know anything about the battery life, but I'm willing to learn.)Here's Tesla's warranty info, which include battery warranty: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty (https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty)
According to https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/ (https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/)
"Tesla (and Elon Musk) claims its EV batteries can last between 300,000 and 400,000 miles before they die and need to be replaced. Data collected by research firm NimbleFins seems to back this up --- a study of 557 Tesla vehicles conducted by the company showed an average of 90% battery capacity even with 150,000 miles on the odometer."
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2023, 08:28:10 AM
Over 360 show up when I put my zip code in. I own a Chevy Equinox and 300+ of those show up.
Chevrolet has built over 2.2 million Equinox's or the USA market. Tesla has built 1.79 million (not sure if that is worldwide or USA)
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 03, 2023, 08:54:49 AM
Chevrolet has built over 2.2 million Equinox's or the USA market. Tesla has built 1.79 million (not sure if that is worldwide or USA)That might by US only because worldwide they have allegedly sold around 5 million so far with 1.8 million expected for just this year.
https://insideevs.com/news/689461/tesla-production-deliveries-graphed-through-2023q3/ (https://insideevs.com/news/689461/tesla-production-deliveries-graphed-through-2023q3/)
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2023, 09:28:23 AM
Here's Tesla's warranty info, which include battery warranty: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty (https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty)
According to https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/ (https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/)
"Tesla (and Elon Musk) claims its EV batteries can last between 300,000 and 400,000 miles before they die and need to be replaced. Data collected by research firm NimbleFins seems to back this up --- a study of 557 Tesla vehicles conducted by the company showed an average of 90% battery capacity even with 150,000 miles on the odometer."
I don’t trust it, even if Elon did say it.
He also said he’s a free speech absolutist and look who he hired as CEO.
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2023, 10:02:15 AM
Here's Tesla's warranty info, which include battery warranty: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty (https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty)
According to https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/ (https://www.howtogeek.com/832686/how-long-do-tesla-batteries-last/)
"Tesla (and Elon Musk) claims its EV batteries can last between 300,000 and 400,000 miles before they die and need to be replaced. Data collected by research firm NimbleFins seems to back this up --- a study of 557 Tesla vehicles conducted by the company showed an average of 90% battery capacity even with 150,000 miles on the odometer."
I don't have time to do the research and find them just now but there are many examples of the range of EVs to be way overstated as well as battery capacity over a relatively short time. Then you add in cold and hot conditions and it gets worse
Way worse.
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 03, 2023, 10:47:35 AM
I don't have time to do the research and find them just now but there are many examples of the range of EVs to be way overstated as well as battery capacity over a relatively short time. Then you add in cold and hot conditions and it gets worse
Way worse.
From https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather)
Quote
Cold weather and winter driving conditions can significantly reduce fuel economy. Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips.
Cold weather effects can vary by vehicle model. However, expect conventional gasoline vehicles to suffer a 10% to 20% fuel economy loss in city driving and a 15% to 33% loss on short trips.
The effect on hybrids is typically greater - with fuel economy dropping about 30% to 34% under these conditions. For hybrids, fuel economy typically decreases by 20% to 40% in city driving and 25% to 45% on short trips.
For electric vehicles (EVs), fuel economy can drop roughly 39% in mixed city and highway driving, and range can drop by 41%. About two-thirds of the extra energy consumed is used to heat the cabin. When the cabin heater is not used, EV fuel economy is 8% lower at 20°F than at 75°F. Driving range is about 12% lower.
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2023, 04:51:02 PM
From https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather)
Energy.gov? Seriously? And you're a Libertarian? Lol!
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 03, 2023, 05:06:45 PM
Energy.gov? Seriously? And you're a Libertarian? Lol!Guess you'll have to do your own research.
Post by: Number7 on October 03, 2023, 05:17:03 PM
Guess you'll have to do your own research.
Energy.gov is every bit as dependable as the cdc and who.
Good choice of bullshit.
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2023, 05:28:40 PM
Guess you'll have to do your own research.
Yes, I'll have to, but thanks for the effort. Seriously.
Post by: elwood blues on October 03, 2023, 06:21:24 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/jackson-wyoming-teton-county-fall-back-on-diesel-fleet-after-none-of-its-electric-buses-work/ar-AA1hErSo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b1af4308382c48e09849defbc6473595&ei=11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/jackson-wyoming-teton-county-fall-back-on-diesel-fleet-after-none-of-its-electric-buses-work/ar-AA1hErSo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b1af4308382c48e09849defbc6473595&ei=11)
Liberal Jackson and Teton counties.
Quote
According to Cowboy State Daily, a Wyoming-based news organization, Wyoming's Teton County and the town of Jackson purchased eight electric buses, all of which have broken down and will no longer run.
The electric buses' failure has forced Jackson and Teton County to rely on their existing fleet of 31 diesel buses.
Quote
Jackson and Teton County's electric buses did not arrive damaged. For a while, they operated as part of the regular fleet.
Alas, they suffered what Cowboy State Daily called "degradation of performance during the winter months."
Quote
Instead, as the Cowboy State Daily described it, "a majority wanted driving to remain inconvenient in hopes that people would ride more bikes and take public transit."
A majority of residents wanted driving to remain inconvenient!
Of course they did.
After all, only affluent liberals would tout the deliberate inconveniencing of their neighbors as a moral virtue.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 03, 2023, 06:48:06 PM
Post by: Number7 on October 03, 2023, 08:08:04 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 04, 2023, 07:03:34 AM
Post by: Number7 on October 04, 2023, 03:26:43 PM
But it won’t.
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 04, 2023, 04:05:57 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2023, 06:34:32 AM
Post by: nddons on October 05, 2023, 08:15:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nspyxNp.png)Stealing this!
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2023, 08:49:12 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/06/tesla-cuts-model-3-model-y-prices-in-the-us-after-deliveries-fall.html
Quote
Tesla
cut the price of some Model 3 and Model Y versions in the U.S. after the company reported third-quarter deliveries that missed market expectations.
The starting price for the Model 3 is listed at $38,990 on Tesla’s website, down from $40,240 previously. The long range Model 3 fell from $47,240 to $45,990. And the Model 3 Performance fell to $50,990 from $53,240.
Tesla’s Model Y Performance sports utility vehicle now starts at $52,490, down from a previous price of $54,490.
Beginning at the end of last year, Tesla began cutting the prices of its cars across the world in a bid to stoke demand amid concerns over slowing consumer spending in markets like the U.S. and China and as competition in the electric vehicle space ramped up.
Tesla regularly tinkers with the price of its cars, especially in its biggest markets of the U.S. and China.
But the latest round of price cuts comes just days after Tesla reported third-quarter deliveries of 435,059 vehicles, missing analyst expectations and marking a decline from the previous quarter.
Tesla put the fall down to factory upgrades which caused manufacturing sites to have downtime.
Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, has made no secret of the carmaker’s desire to chase higher volume over bigger margins this year.
So far, that has paid dividends for the stock with shares up over 100% this year.
Tesla is still looking to deliver 1.8 million vehicles this year.
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 06, 2023, 12:13:57 PM
I thought they couldn't keep up with demand???They delivered more than they produced in the third quarter, drawing down their inventory. Production in the third quarter was reduced due to factory shutdowns to perform upgrades - the expected reduction in output was announced in the second quarter, so no surprise to anyone paying attention. Meanwhile Tesla actually increased prices in Europe while lowering them in the US (likely to clear inventory in the US because they are going to release an upgrade to the Model 3 in the US that has already been released elsewhere in the world):
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/06/tesla-cuts-model-3-model-y-prices-in-the-us-after-deliveries-fall.html
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-raises-prices-in-europe-hours-after-cuts-in-u-s/ (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-raises-prices-in-europe-hours-after-cuts-in-u-s/)
They appear to constantly tweak their prices and still have adequate profit margin to play with.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2023, 12:41:21 PM
They delivered more than they produced in the third quarter, drawing down their inventory. Production in the third quarter was reduced due to factory shutdowns to perform upgrades - the expected reduction in output was announced in the second quarter, so no surprise to anyone paying attention. Meanwhile Tesla actually increased prices in Europe while lowering them in the US (likely to clear inventory in the US because they are going to release an upgrade to the Model 3 in the US that has already been released elsewhere in the world):
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-raises-prices-in-europe-hours-after-cuts-in-u-s/ (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-raises-prices-in-europe-hours-after-cuts-in-u-s/)
They appear to constantly tweak their prices and still have adequate profit margin to play with.
Used market is full of low miles versions. People are buying them, use for a while then dumping them. Car dealers are having a hard time running them through auctions.
Post by: Lucifer on October 11, 2023, 09:42:17 AM
Quote
October 11, 2023
The Seven Dirty Secrets of Solar Energy
By Lorraine Miles
Four headlines struck me, over my morning coffee, this week. They are headlines that I think will change forever our understanding of energy sources. From Germany comes “Wide-Scale Bankruptcies in the EU’s Solar Sector Now Seem Likely” and “Germany to Fire up ‘Brown Coal’ Power Plants because of Fears of Energy Shortage.” From Sweden, “Sweden Embraces Nuclear Energy,” and from France, “Nuclear energy now non-negotiable.”
All four headlines are courtesy of the E.U.’s disastrous missteps in solar — and successes in nuclear. The disasters are the result of what I call “the seven dirty secrets of solar.” Germany has led the way down this dark path, with a failed 32-year, quarter-of-a-trillion-dollar experiment, funded by taxpayers, which has left the country ranking among the worst polluters and highest electric bills in Europe, now also burning more brown coal for its grid than ever before, at 40% and climbing, with only 9% contributed by solar. Germany is fast losing its leading role in energy initiatives to the nuclear successes in France (70% nuclear) and Sweden (40% nuclear).
Black Gardens: The Seven Dirty Secrets of Solar “Farms”
Secret number one: The sun is a lazy worker.
This one is hardly a secret. Everyone knows it, and everyone ignores it. The sun is an intermittent, erratic, and untrustworthy worker. It never works the night shift, takes off all rainy days, and doesn’t show up during cloudy seasons. It is “off duty” for more than half the time.
Secret number two: Solar energy never replaces fossil fuels; it sits on top of them.
Behind every solar “farm” sits a silent, poisonous partner: an old-fashioned gas and oil electric factory. Why is this? Because of law number one: Someone has to fill in when the lazy sun isn’t working. This is the elephant in the room when people talk about solar.
Not only are these factories carbon-spewers, but they can double your electric bill. Because ramp-up and ramp-down times for these massive factories are so expensive, they have to be left running continually. But why talk about negatives?
Secret number three: Old-fashioned gas and oil factories support solar because of the built-in backend revenue streams guaranteed to them. Gas and oil never support nuclear; there’s no backend revenue stream for them. Just follow the money
Secret number four: Solar, for the previous reasons, is thus a de facto permanent polluter of the atmosphere. It will never solve carbon-emission problems (unless, of course, it is backed up by nuclear, which would make no sense. Germany now, shamefully and quietly, is actually buying nuclear energy, electricity, from France, to back up its failed solar efforts, and trying to hide this.
Secret number five: Politics: Solar “farms” grow votes for politicians, not electricity for consumers. Given the preceding negatives, why do nations pursue solar energy? Because of the backend revenue streams for oil and gas for one, but also for votes for “green new deal” politicians. The trick is to conceal the bad news and keep repeating the good fictions. Political science’s “big lie” works like this: the masses fall victim more readily to a big lie than a small one — because it never comes into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths. Take a big lie, repeat it often enough, and it becomes, in the mind of the masses, a truth. Politicians’ concerns are the next election, not your next electric bill.
Secret number six: Economics: Grid integration of solar, being a nightmare expense, can result in a doubling of electric bills and an exodus of job-providing industries to China.
The task of integrating thousands of constantly fluctuating, intermittent streams of solar electricity into a grid is almost impossible. It is also terribly costly. Europe used to have 200 power plants but now has a million. As the CEO of Germany’s biggest power grid explains in a recent Economist article, future grids will have to be designed as gigantic “smart grids” and will have to be run purely digitally. These still need to be developed. And storage batteries to handle city-sized systems remain a utopian dream.
Solar can thus cripple a national economy. Its costly inefficiencies have caused soaring electric rates and a dangerous exodus of industries from Germany. Germany’s giant chemical concern BASF has already given the signal: “BASF to Cut 2,600 Jobs after a Year of High Energy Costs.” And as The New York Times reported last month, “Chinese Cars Star at Munich Auto Show, Underscoring Germany’s Economic Woes.” Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are all exploring new corporate parks in China. The writing is on the wall. A death knell has been sounded over the economy of a country that could once boast the great quality label “made in Germany.”
Secret number seven involves energy security: the protection of a nation’s citizens depends upon a secure and permanent domestic energy supply. Once again, Germany is the example. By decommissioning all its nuclear plants with no backup plan in sight, it trapped itself. Almost immediately, starved for electricity, it built a pipeline to — of all nations — Russia. And Putin, seeing that he had Germany under his thumb (and enjoying his war chest being filled daily with millions of Euros from Germany), invaded Ukraine. Was this a cause-and-effect event, a total surprise? Hardly, at least for a number of geopolitical critics at the time. But Germany’s leadership was apparently blind.
Has Germany learned its lesson? According to the New York Times, it appears about ready to make the same mistake again with China, outsourcing its lifeblood industries to corporate parks in China as they exit Germany — a very dangerous geopolitical move, say the critics.
The Lesson?
It is time to close our excursion into the dark world of solar’s dirty secrets. The governments of Germany and the E.U. should put a halt to their failed solar projects and, like France and Sweden, start prototyping small-scale nuclear projects for future build-out, in order to provide their countries with genuine clean green energy.
Governments should wake up from their 1970s rock-band “no nukes” stupor, for nuclear energy has come a long way since then. The French are pushing to give nuclear a leading role in European plans to produce more green energy technology in Europe, much to Germany's dismay. France not only leads the new wave in energy technology in Europe, but is also spearheading an international effort to research and develop next-generation energy based on fusion power (regular nuclear plants run on fission power).
There is also a new line of small nuclear reactors in the works called SMRs, which are scalable in size and are promising. Sweden has just struck a deal with GE-Hitachi for a line of them, and Bill Gates is launching a pilot test of them in Wyoming.
There is hope in the world (despite the headlines), and countries in the E.U., especially Germany, can become part of the coming new wave in energy technology (which is scalable and clean, and which is nuclear). Let’s hope that they do so, and soon. The lives of their citizens are at stake.
Post by: Lucifer on October 11, 2023, 10:02:20 AM
Post by: Anthony on October 11, 2023, 11:13:16 AM
Post by: Little Joe on October 13, 2023, 12:55:34 PM
This is why I think we need to do our best to rid the world of it's dependence on gas & oil. I'm not saying do away with fossil fuels, but reduce our dependency so that it can't be used as an economic weapon against us.
The vulnerability of the grid is a national security nightmare. Solar panels on almost every roof would reduce that nightmare.
The money that Arab terrorists and other dictators around the world make off of fossil fuels is another security nightmare.
Why does Qatar have this kind of power?
https://twitter.com/dom_lucre/status/1712844903732912563?s=21&t=lebMcl4YM5WxxAlhpAobpA
Quote
BREAKING: Qatar is threatening to create a global gas shortage in support of Palestine. "If the bombing of Gaza doesn't stop, we will stop gas supply of the world."
Post by: Lucifer on October 13, 2023, 02:25:22 PM
This is why I think we need to do our best to rid the world of it's dependence on gas & oil. I'm not saying do away with fossil fuels, but reduce our dependency so that it can't be used as an economic weapon against us.
Why does Qatar have this kind of power?
https://twitter.com/dom_lucre/status/1712844903732912563?s=21&t=lebMcl4YM5WxxAlhpAobpA
Funny thing, 4 years ago we didn't have this problem.
Post by: Anthony on October 13, 2023, 05:54:42 PM
This is why I think we need to do our best to rid the world of it's dependence on gas & oil. I'm not saying do away with fossil fuels, but reduce our dependency so that it can't be used as an economic weapon against us.
Why does Qatar have this kind of power?
https://twitter.com/dom_lucre/status/1712844903732912563?s=21&t=lebMcl4YM5WxxAlhpAobpA
Most fossil fuels go to making PLASTICS which makes everything today, not energy.
Post by: Little Joe on October 14, 2023, 04:33:30 AM
Most fossil fuels go to making PLASTICS which makes everything today, not energy.How does that change the fact that tons of fossil fuels are burned to make energy and the Middle East is fueled almost solely by fossil fuels?
Besides, plastics are bad too. (now where's that "duck and cover" emoji).
Post by: Little Joe on October 15, 2023, 08:19:00 AM
https://wsbt.com/news/nation-world/us-domestic-oil-production-hits-all-time-high-contrasting-efforts-to-reduce-carbon-emissions-climate-change-renewable-sources-energy-information-administration-fossil-fuels-president-joe-biden
Quote
US domestic oil production hits all-time high, contrasting efforts to reduce carbon emissions
Post by: Lucifer on October 15, 2023, 08:39:35 AM
Post by: Anthony on October 15, 2023, 10:28:10 AM
How does that change the fact that tons of fossil fuels are burned to make energy and the Middle East is fueled almost solely by fossil fuels?
Besides, plastics are bad too. (now where's that "duck and cover" emoji).
Because it's not just about energy, it's about all the products we use that are plastic, which is EVERYTHING.
Post by: nddons on October 19, 2023, 07:12:24 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 22, 2023, 05:16:50 PM
Electric cars risk becoming uninsurable
Quote
Electric cars risk becoming effectively uninsurable as analysts struggle to put a price on battery repairs, the researcher for the car insurance industry has said.
Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research, the motor insurers’ automotive research centre, said a lack of “insight and understanding” about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries was pushing up premiums and resulting in some providers declining to provide cover altogether.
Electric cars can be particularly expensive to repair, costing around a quarter more to fix on average than a petrol or diesel vehicle. Experts have previously warned electric vehicles are being written off after minor bumps because of the cost and complexity of fixing their batteries.
Mr Hewett said: “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way.
“The threat of thermal runaway means that a catastrophic fire can take place if the cells of the battery have been damaged in a collision.
“What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 22, 2023, 05:24:54 PM
Post by: Anthony on October 23, 2023, 04:24:55 AM
Cue big Government
Yep. The EV investment the Government/Corporate Fascist Alliance implemented is TOO BIG TO FAIL. And it is also GLOBAL. They also don't want to stop the limitations EVs put on travel in general. This is not about climate change, nor the environment. It is about control of the average person, the middle and upper middle-income earner.
Post by: Rush on October 26, 2023, 01:35:09 PM
https://www.texaspolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023-10-TrueCostofEVs-BennettIsaac.pdf
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 26, 2023, 01:43:10 PM
The true cost of using an EV is equivalent to $17.33 per gallon of gasoline.
https://www.texaspolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023-10-TrueCostofEVs-BennettIsaac.pdf
can't possibly be true. Because if it was, the critters addicted to stealing tax "revenue" wouldn't be all over the concept of using EVs and getting rid of ICEs.
unless they've found a way to tax EV use to generate the same "revenue"...
Post by: Anthony on October 26, 2023, 03:55:37 PM
can't possibly be true. Because if it was, the critters addicted to stealing tax "revenue" wouldn't be all over the concept of using EVs and getting rid of ICEs.
unless they've found a way to tax EV use to generate the same "revenue"...
Mileage tax. Already happening.
Post by: Number7 on October 27, 2023, 02:34:32 PM
Ford announced Thursday that it will delay about $12 billion in planned spending to increase EV manufacturing capacity.
Ford CFO John Lawler made the statements in a media briefing. The major U.S. automaker had expected electric vehicle sales to increase at a much higher pace, according to CNBC.
Persistently high interest rates are slowing the pace of demand for EVs, Reuters reported this week.
On Thursday, Ford reported an operating loss of $1.3 billion in its EV division during the third quarter. In the statement, the auto maker said that customers are unwilling to pay the premiums for EVs over that of gas or hybrid vehicles, which combine characteristics of battery and gas power.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/ford-delay-spending-12-billion-ev-expansion-due-slowing-customer-demand
Post by: Anthony on October 28, 2023, 05:31:24 AM
Ford to Delay Spending $12 BILLION on EV Expansion Due to Slowing Customer Demand
Ford announced Thursday that it will delay about $12 billion in planned spending to increase EV manufacturing capacity.
Ford CFO John Lawler made the statements in a media briefing. The major U.S. automaker had expected electric vehicle sales to increase at a much higher pace, according to CNBC.
Persistently high interest rates are slowing the pace of demand for EVs, Reuters reported this week.
On Thursday, Ford reported an operating loss of $1.3 billion in its EV division during the third quarter. In the statement, the auto maker said that customers are unwilling to pay the premiums for EVs over that of gas or hybrid vehicles, which combine characteristics of battery and gas power.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/ford-delay-spending-12-billion-ev-expansion-due-slowing-customer-demand
I believe this is a worldwide trend, because EVs are sitting in lots by the thousands in the UK, unbought, and Toyota announced it's not going totally EV and will slow down production of them. We ALL saw this coming, so either government will have to pressure car companies to not produce ICE vehicles (already happening) or force them. Look for more state and other government bans of ICE vehicles.
Post by: Number7 on October 28, 2023, 05:55:41 AM
It's all ginned up using faked data, with covering fire from the state run media and the communist democrat party.
Somewhere in this is a bunch of big bribes for biden and obama.
Count on it.
Post by: nddons on October 28, 2023, 06:21:34 AM
Ford to Delay Spending $12 BILLION on EV Expansion Due to Slowing Customer DemandThe EV Ford F-150 is a joke. Trucks are purchased largely by people who do something with them. Trucks carry shit. Interstate or intrastate that’s all you see in the Midwest. There’s no way “doers” who want to get from A to B and can do so for 8 hours between fill ups are going to do 30 minute recharges every 3 hours while sipping a latte at a Starbucks.
Ford announced Thursday that it will delay about $12 billion in planned spending to increase EV manufacturing capacity.
Ford CFO John Lawler made the statements in a media briefing. The major U.S. automaker had expected electric vehicle sales to increase at a much higher pace, according to CNBC.
Persistently high interest rates are slowing the pace of demand for EVs, Reuters reported this week.
On Thursday, Ford reported an operating loss of $1.3 billion in its EV division during the third quarter. In the statement, the auto maker said that customers are unwilling to pay the premiums for EVs over that of gas or hybrid vehicles, which combine characteristics of battery and gas power.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/ford-delay-spending-12-billion-ev-expansion-due-slowing-customer-demand
Post by: Anthony on October 28, 2023, 07:04:47 AM
The EV Ford F-150 is a joke. Trucks are purchased largely by people who do something with them. Trucks carry shit. Interstate or intrastate that’s all you see in the Midwest. There’s no way “doers” who want to get from A to B and can do so for 8 hours between fill ups are going to do 30 minute recharges every 3 hours while sipping a latte at a Starbucks.
Automakers worldwide, with the bribing by governments, and kickbacks to politicians, etc., have invested TRILLIONS in retooling and new plants just to make EVs. Either they are going to take a huge bath of losses, or governments will have to step in again and bail them out with OUR money. Yet the execs and politicians they're in bed with have gotten richer.
Post by: Lucifer on October 29, 2023, 03:21:42 AM
Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working
Quote
At earnings this week, several auto execs pulled back on EV targets.
Dealers have been warning of slowing EV demand for months.
"This is a pretty brutal space," Mercedes-Benz's CFO said this week.
With signs of growing inventory and slowing sales, auto industry executives admitted this week that their ambitious electric vehicle plans are in jeopardy, at least in the near term.
Several C-Suite leaders at some of the biggest carmakers voiced fresh unease about the electric car market's growth as concerns over the viability of these vehicles put their multi-billion-dollar electrification strategies at risk.
Among those hand-wringing is GM's Mary Barra, historically one of the automotive industry's most bullish CEOs on the future of electric vehicles. GM has been an early-mover in the electric car market, selling the Chevrolet Bolt for seven years and making bold claims about a fully electric future for the company long before its competitors got on board.
But this week on GM's third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it's abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn't know when it will hit those targets.
"As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," she said.
While GM's about-face was somewhat of a surprise to investors, the Detroit car company is not alone in this new view of the EV future. Even Tesla's Elon Musk warned on a recent earnings call that economic concerns would lead to waning vehicle demand, even for the long-time EV market leader.
Meanwhile, Mercedes-Benz — which is having to discount its EVs by several thousand dollars just to get them in customers' hands — isn't mincing words about the state of the EV market.
"This is a pretty brutal space," CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. "I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody."
EVs are getting harder to sell
But Mercedes isn't the only one; almost all current EV product is going for under sticker price these days, and on top of that, some EVs are seeing manufacturer's incentives of nearly 10%.
That's as inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they're looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren't enough. These cars are taking dealers longer to sell compared with their gas counterparts as the next wave of buyers focus on cost, infrastructure challenges, and lifestyle barriers to adopting.
Just a few months after dealers started coming forward to warn of slowing EV demand, manufacturers appear to be catching up to that reality. Ford was the first to fold, after dealers started turning away Mach-E allocations. In July, the company extended its self-imposed deadline to hit annual electric vehicle production of 600,000 by a year, and abandoned a 2026 target to build 2 million EVs.
In scrapping plans with GM to co-develop sub-$30,000 EVs, Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe said the shifting EV environment was difficult to gauge.
"After studying this for a year, we decided that this would be difficult as a business, so at the moment we are ending development of an affordable EV," Mibe said in an interview with Bloomberg this week.
For some, this pullback is no surprise.
"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints.
Post by: Lucifer on November 09, 2023, 10:13:45 AM
Post by: nddons on November 09, 2023, 01:46:57 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/auto-execs-coming-clean-evs-164359606.htmlEVs will have a tiny market niche for a long time. The grid cannot bear it, and people value their freedom to travel great distances too much to be saddled with the charging fiascos.
Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working
Post by: Little Joe on November 09, 2023, 02:51:05 PM
EVs will have a tiny market niche for a long time. The grid cannot bear it, and people value their freedom to travel great distances too much to be saddled with the charging fiascos.Ok, so the answer is:
Build more coal powered generating plants that spew particulate matter into the atmosphere to reduce global warming, and to charge our EVs so we can reduce the demand for Middle East oil. We can still pump all the gas and oil we want at home and even export it if anyone wants to buy it, but the Middle East will suffocate. We can be completely energy independent and the terrorists can drink their fucking oil.
Post by: Anthony on November 09, 2023, 03:53:25 PM
Ok, so the answer is:
Build more coal powered generating plants that spew particulate matter into the atmosphere to reduce global warming, and to charge our EVs so we can reduce the demand for Middle East oil. We can still pump all the gas and oil we want at home and even export it if anyone wants to buy it, but the Middle East will suffocate. We can be completely energy independent and the terrorists can drink their fucking oil.
We don't need coal. We have plenty natural gas to fire new generation. Almost all new power plants are natural gas, maybe even all of them. No new coal , nor nuke has been built for decades in the U.S.
Post by: Little Joe on November 09, 2023, 04:11:03 PM
We don't need coal. We have plenty natural gas to fire new generation.Yeah, but Natural Gas doesn't pollute the atmosphere enough to limit the sun's warming effects on our climate.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on November 09, 2023, 06:37:23 PM
... Ford is losing $60,000 for every electric F-150 they sell.
How do they make it up? Volume!
Post by: Little Joe on November 10, 2023, 04:05:44 AM
How do they make it up? Volume!I suspect there is a lot of truth to that.
For new products, there are a lot of R&D and startup costs that have to be written off. As more cars are produced over time and as volume increases those costs become smaller per car.
But I am sure it will also require a lot of productivity gains and that has just been made much more difficult with the new union contracts.
And if H2 takes off in the form of H2ICE, those increases (in sales and production) may never happen.
Post by: Anthony on November 10, 2023, 04:39:50 AM
Quote
Ford Motor Co. says a battery problem has forced the second-largest U.S. automaker to stop production and delivery of its F-150 lightning electric truck, after just announcing 3,800 jobs in Europe would be cut to focus on improving its market share in the EV sector.
Ford spokesperson Emma Bergg said, "I can confirm a Stop Build and In-Transit Stop Ship for F-150 Lightning."
"As part of our pre-delivery quality inspections, a vehicle displayed a potential battery issue, and we are holding vehicles while we investigate," she added. "We are not aware of any incidences of this issue in the field."
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-halts-production-electric-pickup-potential-battery-issue
.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 10, 2023, 05:31:18 AM
Years ago I had ordered a 2001 Ford Escape. Between the time I placed my order and the vehicle finally made it off the production line, production had stopped six times.
So, don't make too much of the EV produciton line being stopped. It might not be an indication of inherent problems with EV.
Post by: Anthony on November 15, 2023, 01:42:28 AM
With a new model, it's not ununsual to halt the production line for days and weeks.
Years ago I had ordered a 2001 Ford Escape. Between the time I placed my order and the vehicle finally made it off the production line, production had stopped six times.
So, don't make too much of the EV produciton line being stopped. It might not be an indication of inherent problems with EV.
The F-150 Lightning is a documented LOSER. I think its days are numbered and this is the beginning of the end. We'll see.
Post by: Lucifer on December 16, 2023, 03:47:30 PM
Post by: Lucifer on February 19, 2024, 11:08:40 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on February 20, 2024, 06:12:16 AM
Post by: Rush on February 20, 2024, 06:31:37 AM
My youngest son recently traded in their EV5 for an EV9. This is the third EV they've owned.
Both my kids bought new cars and have car payments. It’s like they want to be poor when old. At least they’re not EVs.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on February 20, 2024, 06:55:53 PM
Both my kids bought new cars and have car payments. It’s like they want to be poor when old. At least they’re not EVs.My grandfather always said “Only two things worth borrowing money for - a house and an education.”
I’m not so sure about the latter anymore and cars were definitely not on the list.
Post by: Little Joe on February 20, 2024, 07:03:53 PM
My grandfather always said “Only two things worth borrowing money for - a house and an education.”I borrowed over a million dollars when I started my business. That was the best (and only) million I ever borrowed, even if it was the most traumatic time in my life when I put my signature on that piece of paper.
I’m not so sure about the latter anymore and cars were definitely not on the list.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on February 20, 2024, 07:08:41 PM
I borrowed over a million dollars when I started my business. That was the best (and only) million I ever borrowed, even if it was the most traumatic time in my life when I put my signature on that piece of paper.That’s an amazing amount for a startup loan. Must have felt rather risky at the time. But I guess it worked out well. Congratulations!
Post by: Little Joe on February 20, 2024, 07:19:48 PM
That’s an amazing amount for a startup loan. Must have felt rather risky at the time. But I guess it worked out well. Congratulations!It wasn't really a startup. We already had a pretty good client base with a proven revenue stream. We just needed a stable base of operations to take it to the next level.
We had already bought and paid for the land and had another 25% saved up for down payment.
And I spent a LOT of time writing up the business plan, which focused on the risks and how we would overcome them.
The loan was for construction of a building and the purchase of equipment. All of which made for very good collateral. The bank didn't have to take much risk at all. We paid off the loan in 10 years.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on February 20, 2024, 07:29:09 PM
It wasn't really a startup. We already had a pretty good client base with a proven revenue stream. We just needed a stable base of operations to take it to the next level.You didn't over value anything did you? 8)
We had already bought and paid for the land and had another 25% saved up for down payment.
And I spent a LOT of time writing up the business plan, which focused on the risks and how we would overcome them.
The loan was for construction of a building and the purchase of equipment. All of which made for very good collateral. The bank didn't have to take much risk at all. We paid off the loan in 10 years.
Post by: Little Joe on February 20, 2024, 07:32:56 PM
You didn't over value anything did you? 8)Probably all of it. That's how business works. We tell the bank what we think it's worth and they decide if they agree.
At least that's the way it is supposed to work.
Post by: Lucifer on February 20, 2024, 07:34:53 PM
Probably all of it. That's how business works. We tell the bank what we think it's worth and they decide if they agree.
At least that's the way it is supposed to work.
Not anymore apparently........... ::)
Post by: Rush on February 20, 2024, 07:48:29 PM
My grandfather always said “Only two things worth borrowing money for - a house and an education.”
I’m not so sure about the latter anymore and cars were definitely not on the list.
The education used to be true. Not anymore now that everybody goes to college. It no longer makes you special. At least with most liberal arts. It’s still worth it for STEM degrees.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on February 21, 2024, 10:08:53 AM
Probably all of it. That's how business works. We tell the bank what we think it's worth and they decide if they agree.
At least that's the way it is supposed to work.
Unless you're a Soros funded DA and "judge" that have a hard-on for you.
Post by: Rush on February 21, 2024, 11:25:37 AM
Unless you're a Soros funded DA and "judge" that have a hard-on for you.
Don’t get me started on the Soros funded DAs and judges that tied our AG’s hands when it comes to prosecuting vote fraud here in Texas! Good God, Soros tentacles are everywhere.
Post by: Lucifer on February 26, 2024, 06:37:23 AM
Post by: Anthony on February 26, 2024, 10:10:38 AM