Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 03, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
C’mon, you peeps ... you know Trump won the election and has the power to expose the corruption and secure justice and save the Republic.
Don’t make me stop reading Pilot Spin because you’ve all become doomers. There will be no Biden Administration.
Changed my forum name again because I noticed that lots of judges call themselves honorable but really aren’t.
Post by: Rush on January 03, 2021, 12:48:09 PM
I just watched an interview with someone who said Sidney Powell was talking about how even if Biden is inaugurated on the 20th, it is still possible to overthrow the election result if the Supreme Court finds fraud that would have changed the result, and then the process would be to impeach Biden. I seriously doubt that would ever come about (with our compromised SC) but I am viewing Jan 20 as literally the apocalypse and I think I need to hang on to some kind of hope that even if that is the outcome there is still hope.
The key is that the election fraud MUST be exposed. If that isn't fixed nothing else matters.
Post by: Lucifer on January 03, 2021, 01:10:29 PM
What they need to do is reach out to Xiden and get him on board. After all, wouldn’t Xiden want to appear presidential and reassure the people he was legitimately elected, and is opposed to any voter fraud?
The one problem I see with the commission is congress will try to load it with Democrats and RINO’s. The commission needs to be outside of government and independent.
Post by: bflynn on January 04, 2021, 11:35:46 AM
someone who said Sidney Powell was talking about how even if Biden is inaugurated on the 20th, it is still possible to overthrow the election result if the Supreme Court finds fraud that would have changed the result, and then the process would be to impeach Biden.
There's zero way to remove Biden as president other than impeachment. There is pretty much zero chance of any Democrat Senator voting to do, let alone 17 of them. If you want that, you'd better get some real evidence together, something that even a Democrat Senator cannot ignore. Or you could get the 25th Amendment invoked. And then understand who becomes president next - Harris or Pelosi?
Any other means of removing Biden as president is defined as a coup and would be a treason against the Republic.
Post by: Anthony on January 04, 2021, 11:58:27 AM
There's zero way
Any other means of removing Biden as president is defined as a coup and would be a treason against the Republic.
I'd do what respected true leaders like Washington, Jefferson and Adams would do, so I'm ok with that.
Post by: Rush on January 04, 2021, 01:32:04 PM
There's zero way to remove Biden as president other than impeachment. There is pretty much zero chance of any Democrat Senator voting to do, let alone 17 of them. If you want that, you'd better get some real evidence together, something that even a Democrat Senator cannot ignore. Or you could get the 25th Amendment invoked. And then understand who becomes president next - Harris or Pelosi?
Any other means of removing Biden as president is defined as a coup and would be a treason against the Republic.
They're planning to get rid of Biden anyway. (The Democrats)
Post by: bflynn on January 04, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
I'd do what respected true leaders like Washington, Jefferson and Adams would do, so I'm ok with that.
They followed the electoral vote, even when it wasn't in their favor. Jefferson thought Adams would be a bad president (he was), but Jefferson didn't win the electoral vote and accepted his place as VP. Later Jefferson was barely elected, he was deadlocked with Burr for multiple votes until a back room deal got him elected (no one else was in the room).
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 04, 2021, 01:44:23 PM
Post by: bflynn on January 05, 2021, 06:01:42 AM
Are you saying that election fraud occurred back in the first few elections?
I don't pretend to be a history expert. But the deal that made Jefferson president is known to have happened although the contents of the deal are not known. Do you want to call that fraud?
I'm not otherwise aware of any accusations of voter fraud in early US elections. After the civil war, there were accusations of fraud nearly every election for about 25 years and they've been going on periodically since.
In this day and age, we should have the ability to completely secure our elections against fraud. It is only the insistence of hanging onto anonymity that permits fraud to endure. It turns out, sunlight is still the best disinfectant.
Post by: Rush on January 05, 2021, 06:12:39 AM
I don't pretend to be a history expert. But the deal that made Jefferson president is known to have happened although the contents of the deal are not known. Do you want to call that fraud?
I'm not otherwise aware of any accusations of voter fraud in early US elections. After the civil war, there were accusations of fraud nearly every election for about 25 years and they've been going on periodically since.
In this day and age, we should have the ability to completely secure our elections against fraud. It is only the insistence of hanging onto anonymity that permits fraud to endure. It turns out, sunlight is still the best disinfectant.
I think we can preserve anonymity and still secure the election if we use only paper ballots, require photo ID, allow only very restricted absentee voting, and all counting must be done with bi-partisan cooperation.
Post by: Little Joe on January 05, 2021, 06:14:58 AM
It is only the insistence of hanging onto anonymity that permits fraud to endure. It turns out, sunlight is still the best disinfectant.Then why are Democrats so afraid to allow this investigation to go to court?
Post by: Anthony on January 05, 2021, 06:15:46 AM
I think we can preserve anonymity and still secure the election if we use only paper ballots, require photo ID, allow only very restricted absentee voting, and all counting must be done with bi-partisan cooperation.
Bingo! Thank you. Which we've somewhat done in the past except for I.D. Mail in voting is a fraud enabler and anti American.
Post by: bflynn on January 05, 2021, 06:17:31 AM
Then why are Democrats so afraid to allow this investigation to go to court?
???
Courts do not do investigations. Courts rule on facts. I would have thought that was crystal clear by now.
Which investigation are you talking about and what are the facts of the case?
Post by: Lucifer on January 05, 2021, 06:21:24 AM
???
Courts do not do investigations. Courts rule on facts. I would have thought that was crystal clear by now.
Which investigation are you talking about and what are the facts of the case?
Courts allow evidence to be presented, and based upon the preponderance of the evidence allow both sides discovery, which in itself is an investigation using the power of the court to enforce.
None of the election cases so far have made it to the evidentiary phase but instead have been ruled upon using court procedure such as standing and laches. Legal jujitsu to avoid having evidence presented.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 05, 2021, 06:21:46 AM
Courts rule on facts.Facts come from testimony by witnesses, Please tell us which of these lawsuits have had testimony given by witnesses?
Post by: Anthony on January 05, 2021, 06:47:35 AM
???
Courts do not do investigations. Courts rule on facts. I would have thought that was crystal clear by now.
Which investigation are you talking about and what are the facts of the case?
And all courts are unbiased, right? Grow up.
Post by: bflynn on January 05, 2021, 08:08:45 AM
Facts come from testimony by witnesses, Please tell us which of these lawsuits have had testimony given by witnesses?
I don't know, there have been over 200 cases filed related to the election. I asked first, which one are you talking about. I'm not going to scurry around trying to determine the legal status of every case that's ever been filed.
Testimony is a form of evidence, but it is a very weak form because it it essentially an accusation. Mere testimony is insufficient to convict someone. But then, there haven't been very many someones identified to convict, have there? Republicans just want to overthrow the entire election and consequences of doing it be damned.
What are the consequences you say? A Constitutional crisis. There's nothing in Constitution that 1) allows Congress to challenge the electoral vote or even to review it, 2) permits the Vice President to set aside the results of the Electoral College on the basis of a complaint, or 3) provides a means to resolve the situation you'd be in if the Vice President did set aside the electoral college. That leaves the government in limbo with no means to determine who the next president is and is the crisis. There is no legal path at that point for anyone to take office. If that were to happen, no Congress does not get together and vote on it, that's the resolution for a deadlocked electoral vote.
That there is no resolution provided should tell us all that it isn't a position that we can go to. What happens tomorrow is a ceremony to inform Congress of the outcome, not to seek their consent. The election has happened and is over. If you want Joe Biden out, wait for Democrats to remove him through impeachment or the 25th Amendment due to his ailments.
Post by: bflynn on January 05, 2021, 08:18:27 AM
And all courts are unbiased, right? Grow up.
WTF does that mean? Of course some judges are biased. One of the most famously biased passed away in September and there was a big to do over whether or not to even replace her. On par, the system usually works, but not always to an outcome you'd like. It's all about having convincing evidence. Mere testimony isn't.
Yes, sometimes courts don't get it right and only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Post by: Anthony on January 05, 2021, 08:23:43 AM
WTF does that mean? Of course some judges are biased. One of the most famously biased passed away in September and there was a big to do over whether or not to even replace her. On par, the system usually works, but not always to an outcome you'd like. It's all about having convincing evidence. Mere testimony isn't.
Yes, sometimes courts don't get it right and only the Sith deal in absolutes.
You made a blanket statement about the court cases. The swing states that committed the fraud are all Democrat controlled, mostly with Democrat controlled Supreme Courts. My state of PA is a perfect example. Corrupt, Democrat controlled court. That's wtf I mean.
Post by: Lucifer on January 05, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
It's all about having convincing evidence. Mere testimony isn't.
In the election cases they hinge on preponderance of the evidence. Signed and sworn affidavits are indeed evidence and places the individual into jeopardy if proven to be untrue.
The legal process allows the defendant to have the individual who completed and signed the affidavit to appear in court and be examined and cross examined. It can also allow discovery, interrogatories and depositions.
You haven't read any of the affidavits. Many contain names, times and places and attached evidence to back up the claim. But since the courts have decided to use procedural issues such as standing and laches, the affidavits never make it to the evidentiary phase or discovery.
For a group that has tried in vain to convince the American people this was somehow a free and fair election, but then resort to tactics to hide the evidence and outright refusal to allow witnesses to see the process and even refuse request to examine evidence, in itself leads to people questioning their motives.
People with nothing to hide are transparent and forthcoming. The guilty will obstruct, deny and obfuscate.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 05, 2021, 09:59:10 AM
There's nothing in Constitution that 1) allows Congress to challenge the electoral vote or even to review it, 2) permits the Vice President to set aside the results of the Electoral College on the basis of a complaint, or 3) provides a means to resolve the situation you'd be in if the Vice President did set aside the electoral college. That leaves the government in limbo with no means to determine who the next president is and is the crisis. There is no legal path at that point for anyone to take office. If that were to happen, no Congress does not get together and vote on it, that's the resolution for a deadlocked electoral vote.
According to this article congress did in fact review challenged electoral votes in the 1876 race and chose the candidate they were to be awarded to:
Four Times the Results of a Presidential Election Were Contested
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/rigged-vote-four-us-presidential-elections-contested-results-180961033/ (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/rigged-vote-four-us-presidential-elections-contested-results-180961033/)
“Competing sets of election returns and electoral votes were sent to Congress to be counted in January 1877, so Congress voted to create a bipartisan commission of 15 members of Congress and Supreme Court justices to determine how to allocate the electors from the three disputed states. Seven commissioners were to be Republican, seven were to be Democrats, and there would be one independent, Justice David Davis of Illinois.
But in a political scheme that backfired, Davis was chosen by Democrats in the Illinois state legislature to serve in the U.S. Senate (senators weren’t chosen by voters until 1913). They’d hoped to win his support on the electoral commission. Instead, Davis resigned from the commission and was replaced by Republican Justice Joseph Bradley, who proceeded to join an 8-7 Republican majority that awarded all the disputed electoral votes to Hayes.
Democrats decided not to argue with that final result due to the “Compromise of 1877,” in which Republicans, in return for getting Hayes in the White House, agreed to an end to Reconstruction and military occupation of the South.“
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 06, 2021, 09:55:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrGJfQzUrnY
Post by: Rush on January 06, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 11:16:48 AM
Live ... President Trump about to speak, 11:55 a.m ESTScorched earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrGJfQzUrnY
Post by: Rush on January 06, 2021, 11:18:15 AM
Post by: bflynn on January 06, 2021, 02:00:48 PM
Well Pence just sent a letter saying he won’t do what Trump wants. He’s gonna betray.
I'd hardly call it betrayal to not invent new powers out of nothing. There's nothing in the Constitution which suggests that during the electoral vote presentation to Congress there is any power of review by anyone, the VP or Congress. It's a ceremony, the votes are reported to Congress and they are told who the next president is. They don't ratify it, it's notification.
The United States looks like a third world government.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 02:03:12 PM
I'd hardly call it betrayal to not invent new powers out of nothing. There's nothing in the Constitution which suggests that during the electoral vote presentation to Congress there is any power of review by anyone, the VP or Congress. It's a ceremony, the votes are reported to Congress and they are told who the next president is. They don't ratify it, it's notification.
The United States looks like a third world government.
Thanks to who? The DCP who is doing everything they can to take over power? The DCP and their hate groups such as ANTIFA and BLM?
Post by: Rush on January 06, 2021, 02:15:47 PM
I'd hardly call it betrayal to not invent new powers out of nothing. There's nothing in the Constitution which suggests that during the electoral vote presentation to Congress there is any power of review by anyone, the VP or Congress. It's a ceremony, the votes are reported to Congress and they are told who the next president is. They don't ratify it, it's notification.
The United States looks like a third world government.
That ship sailed when Democrat states bought Dominion vote machines and then broke constitutional law with universal mail in ballots.
Democrats are unethical thugs period. And this is now a regime of thugs. Enjoy.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 02:19:03 PM
That ship sailed when Democrat states bought Dominion vote machines and then broke constitutional law with universal mail in ballots.
Democrats are unethical thugs period. And this is now a regime of thugs. Enjoy.
The DCP. Democrat Communist Party
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 02:25:58 PM
That ship sailed when Democrat states bought Dominion vote machines and then broke constitutional law with universal mail in ballots.
Democrats are unethical thugs period. And this is now a regime of thugs. Enjoy.
What provision of the Constitution was violated with universal mail in ballots?
The only thugs I see are hanging off the capital as I type this. Are you all tired of winning yet? Dems have Congress, the White House, the GOP is divided, and a minority is trying to destroy our republic. I told you years ago, that Trump was going to destroy the GOP and give power to the Dems. Good job guys!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 02:58:29 PM
What provision of the Constitution was violated with universal mail in ballots?
Had you paid any attention, the mail in ballots were done usurping the state legislatures, hence making several state level elections invalid. Ever read the guarantee clause of the constitution?
The only thugs I see are hanging off the capital as I type this.
Democrat hate groups were recruited to come in wearing red hats and dressed as Trump supporters. You'll scoff at that, because like most liberals you'll view ANTIFA and BLM as righteous.
Are you all tired of winning yet?
Are you tired of stealing yet? Your party has taken it to a whole new level.
Dems have Congress, the White House,
Your leader Pelosi barely holds power, her "blue wave never materialized". Xiden is coming into the WH with a huge dark cloud over his presidency. In fact, if we hold Xiden to the same standards that the dims held Trump to, the articles of impeachment need to be drawn up January 21st, and the laptop from hell be used as evidence.
80+
the GOP is divided, and a minority is trying to destroy our republic.
The GOP has committed political suicide. They did this by crapping on their base and joining in with their establishment dims.
I hardly call 80+ million a "minority". And I wouldn't call standing up for our constitution as destroying our republic. The DCP is busy with that job.
I told you years ago, that Trump was going to destroy the GOP and give power to the Dems. Good job guys!
You just ranted because HRC couldn't win an election. Can you imagine how pissed she is today? She is wondering why her own party couldn't have stolen an election for her.
Post by: Anthony on January 06, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
What provision of the Constitution was violated with universal mail in ballots?
The only thugs I see are hanging off the capital as I type this. Are you all tired of winning yet? Dems have Congress, the White House, the GOP is divided, and a minority is trying to destroy our republic. I told you years ago, that Trump was going to destroy the GOP and give power to the Dems. Good job guys!
Welcome back Kristin! You're totally wrong, but still.........
;D
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 03:16:42 PM
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5241.0;attach=1789;image)
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Now watch the fake outrage in action.
Post by: Number7 on January 06, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
Assholes like kristin and Mikey don’t read, or think.
They just babble whatever bullshit they are spoon fed.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 06, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 04:33:25 PM
Do you notice we suddenly have leftists coming out of the woodwork now.
Drive bys............nothing new, still content free.
Post by: nudnik on January 06, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
From Nov 4th.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5241.0;attach=1789;image)
That thing has been circulating for years. Here is it posted from 2017:
https://studio1776.org/2017/11/04/leaked-the-antifa-manual-harrisburg100
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 04:59:24 PM
That thing has been circulating for years. Here is it posted from 2017:
https://studio1776.org/2017/11/04/leaked-the-antifa-manual-harrisburg100
Yes, I'm aware. It was posted as an example. Notice I posted the date. Word is that the same was happening this week. Should be seeing some examples soon.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 05:09:44 PM
Had you paid any attention, the mail in ballots were done usurping the state legislatures, hence making several state level elections invalid. Ever read the guarantee clause of the constitution?
Yep! What does that have to do with mail in ballots?
QuoteDemocrat hate groups were recruited to come in wearing red hats and dressed as Trump supporters. You'll scoff at that, because like most liberals you'll view ANTIFA and BLM as righteous.
Got evidence? Without evidence, this is dead air. Of course, I have been watching all day and didn't see what colored person. This was a white revolution.QuoteAre you tired of stealing yet? Your party has taken it to a whole new level.
Got evidence? Only about 90 judges, some appointed by Trump, saw no material evidence. The Dems haven't been my party or my family's party since probably about Lincoln's time, but after today, being a lover of our republic, I will be joining the Democrat party.QuoteYour leader Pelosi barely holds power, her "blue wave never materialized". Xiden is coming into the WH with a huge dark cloud over his presidency. In fact, if we hold Xiden to the same standards that the dims held Trump to, the articles of impeachment need to be drawn up January 21st, and the laptop from hell be used as evidence.
I will remember this so I can rub it in your face when your delusions become the dust of history.
QuoteThe GOP has committed political suicide. They did this by crapping on their base and joining in with their establishment dims.
Trump's base is seeking to destroy our democratic republic. They need crapping on. What will happen is that in 2022, Trump's automatons, will nominate senatorial candidates who will advocate the destruction of America. They will then be crushed in the general election, further cementing the Dem's control of the levers of power.
QuoteI hardly call 80+ million a "minority". And I wouldn't call standing up for our constitution as destroying our republic. The DCP is busy with that job.
You obviously had a lot of trouble with math. Off the top of my head, that is about 25% of the population.
QuoteYou just ranted because HRC couldn't win an election. Can you imagine how pissed she is today? She is wondering why her own party couldn't have stolen an election for her.Simple, no evidence of stealing, in either election. The closest we got was Russian interference on Trump's behalf in 2016. I think that the Russians realized their mistake and laid off this election.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 05:10:51 PM
Welcome back Kristin! You're totally wrong, but still.........
;D
Thank you! I respect your belief system. I don't live in myth, but this is a free country, and will be going forward.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
You’re wasting your time.
Assholes like kristin and Mikey don’t read, or think.
They just babble whatever bullshit they are spoon fed.
I see IQ7 is still around.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 05:14:30 PM
That thing has been circulating for years. Here is it posted from 2017:
https://studio1776.org/2017/11/04/leaked-the-antifa-manual-harrisburg100
And you can prove where this originated from? There is a reason in court that we have rule of evidence to filter out some of the BS. Even if this was created by some idea in a college dorm room, it is balanced out with Proud Boys, Boogaloo Bois, and all the rest of the right wing dirt bags.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 05:26:06 PM
Got evidence? Without evidence, this is dead air. Of course, I have been watching all day and didn't see what colored person. This was a white revolution.
White revolution? LOL.
Ever seen your ANTIFA and BLM supporters? Very few blacks in those groups, mostly rich kids that spent too much time getting indoctrinated in college.
Got evidence? Only about 90 judges, some appointed by Trump, saw no material evidence. The Dems haven't been my party or my family's party since probably about Lincoln's time, but after today, being a lover of our republic, I will be joining the Democrat party.
Get someone who's actually paid attention in law school to explain to you how none of these cases ever made it past the procedural stage, and never had any evidence looked at. The judges played legal jujitsu by playing games with standing and laches. I know that's difficult for you to understand.
I will remember this so I can rub it in your face when your delusions become the dust of history.
I remember when you were all fired up and warned me how my world would come "crashing down around me" when your hero Hillary was going to easily win. That's when you disappeared for 3+ years. ::)
Trump's base is seeking to destroy our democratic republic. They need crapping on. What will happen is that in 2022, Trump's automatons, will nominate senatorial candidates who will advocate the destruction of America. They will then be crushed in the general election, further cementing the Dem's control of the levers of power.
But that's what you want. right? Or are you still playing the game that you are somehow a "moderate"? ;)
You obviously had a lot of trouble with math. Off the top of my head, that is about 25% of the population.
I know your party encourages underage votes as well as dead votes. Approximately 160 million people voted in the election (including lots of made up ones and dead ones for the dims)
Simple, no evidence of stealing, in either election. The closest we got was Russian interference on Trump's behalf in 2016. I think that the Russians realized their mistake and laid off this election.
4 years of countless investigations by the DoJ/ FBI, the Senate and Congress. $50million spent, yet ZERO evidence ever produced of Trump involved in election fraud in 2016.
Yet with a growing mountain of evidence of voter fraud in various states, we are suppose to believe this was a clean election. :o
Post by: Little Joe on January 06, 2021, 05:37:03 PM
Welcome back Kristin! You're totally wrong, but still.........I agree. Welcome back Kristin.
;D
I don't think you are "totally wrong", just mostly wrong. But I'm happy to hear opposing voices.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 06, 2021, 05:46:17 PM
[...]being a lover of our republic, I will be joining the Democrat party.
What had been your party preference? In other words, if you had been voting for the party’s candidates, what do you expect joining it will accomplish that you weren’t accomplishing before?
As a side note, I’m a lover of liberty, not political parties, except as they may coincide with my personal philosophy. That tends to put Libertarians nearest, followed by old-style limited government Republicans. I don’t know that I’d ever consider the Democratic party of the last 40+ years as champions of liberty by any reasonable measure.
Post by: wingit on January 06, 2021, 05:47:05 PM
Lies repeated over and over do not make it true.
Consider the possibility your views on the republicans and democrats are in fact incorrect.
Consider we need to weed out the democratic and republican extremists .. tea party to antifa.
Perhaps we should work to re-develop the rule of law, fewer goofy laws, end the Citizens United money emphasis,
enforced immigration (and Visas), punish employers that hire undocumented and send technology to those who wish to destabilize our way of life.
If you are sure of your facts you may have been co-opted -- and you are smarter than that.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 05:54:19 PM
TRump finally jumped the shark.... Sedition and revolution failed.... Moscow Mitch out.
Lies repeated over and over do not make it true.
Consider the possibility your views on the republicans and democrats are in fact incorrect.
Consider we need to weed out the democratic and republican extremists .. tea party to antifa.
Perhaps we should work to re-develop the rule of law, fewer goofy laws, end the Citizens United money emphasis,
enforced immigration (and Visas), punish employers that hire undocumented and send technology to those who wish to destabilize our way of life.
If you are sure of your facts you may have been co-opted -- and you are smarter than that.
Can you suggest a translator for this?
Post by: bflynn on January 06, 2021, 05:59:03 PM
Also Trump: Calm down and go home.
What a maroon
Post by: wingit on January 06, 2021, 06:00:45 PM
Post by: wingit on January 06, 2021, 06:02:31 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 06:03:03 PM
The Dems haven't been my party or my family's party since probably about Lincoln's time, but after today, being a lover of our republic, I will be joining the Democrat party.
The Democrat Communist Party. The party with deep ties to the CCP. The party that uses hate, promotes hatred. The party that funds and supports hate groups such as ANTIFA and BLM. The party of antisemitism. The party of racial hatred and bigotry. The party that promotes the slaughter of the unborn. The party that promotes restricting and eliminating basic rights.
Yes, you will fit right in.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 06:03:49 PM
both of my comments were to lucifer
New to using a forum? ::)
Post by: Little Joe on January 06, 2021, 06:13:51 PM
TRump finally jumped the shark.... Sedition and revolution failed.... Moscow Mitch out.I think I agree with you. But I'm not sure. I like some of what you said.
Lies repeated over and over do not make it true.
Consider the possibility your views on the republicans and democrats are in fact incorrect.
Consider we need to weed out the democratic and republican extremists .. tea party to antifa.
Perhaps we should work to re-develop the rule of law, fewer goofy laws, end the Citizens United money emphasis,
enforced immigration (and Visas), punish employers that hire undocumented and send technology to those who wish to destabilize our way of life.
If you are sure of your facts you may have been co-opted -- and you are smarter than that.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 06:17:06 PM
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 06:21:09 PM
What provision of the Constitution was violated with universal mail in ballots?You stroll back in here to troll? How predicable.
The only thugs I see are hanging off the capital as I type this. Are you all tired of winning yet? Dems have Congress, the White House, the GOP is divided, and a minority is trying to destroy our republic. I told you years ago, that Trump was going to destroy the GOP and give power to the Dems. Good job guys!
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 06:24:32 PM
Remember, throughout 2020 the dims have done everything possible using their MSM to normalize violence.A brand new word has surfaced in 2021 that was not used a single time by the MSM in 2020 to describe the “mostly peaceful” protests that torched dozens of cities, caused billions of property damage, turned inner cities into Mogadishu, and resulted in the deaths of dozens.
Now watch the fake outrage in action.
It resurfaced just today:
Riot
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 06:25:22 PM
Do you notice we suddenly have leftists coming out of the woodwork now.They want to spike the football.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 06:30:11 PM
They want to spike the football.
The useful idiots. The DCP can't exist without them.
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 06:30:59 PM
Thank you! I respect your belief system. I don't live in myth, but this is a free country, and will be going forward.Free country before or after the gun confiscation that Biden and Harris advocated? Just trying to keep track of my liberty.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 06:44:02 PM
White revolution? LOL.
Ever seen your ANTIFA and BLM supporters? Very few blacks in those groups, mostly rich kids that spent too much time getting indoctrinated in college.
Yes! I can only speak for Minneapolis, but here there was a very substantial percentage of the protests were people of color.
Quote
Get someone who's actually paid attention in law school to explain to you how none of these cases ever made it past the procedural stage, and never had any evidence looked at. The judges played legal jujitsu by playing games with standing and laches. I know that's difficult for you to understand.
No jujitsu! The Constitution, which you have so little love for, or knowledge of, limits the courts to actual cases and controversies. This is to limit the lawmaking ability of the court. There is no actual controversy for the court if the complaintant has not actual injury of which to complain. Even the GOP packed appellate courts agreed with the trial courts.
Quote
I remember when you were all fired up and warned me how my world would come "crashing down around me" when your hero Hillary was going to easily win. That's when you disappeared for 3+ years. ::)
This is of course a distortion of what I said. Even Trump thought Hillary was going to win, and probably wish she had, or he will in time. I disappeared because I had said what I wanted to say and had better things to do than repeat myself and chose to let the last three years speak for themselves. There was little point, without the facts of history subsequently provided, to deal with the toxic masculinity express from behind the anonymity of silly handles.
Quote
But that's what you want. right? Or are you still playing the game that you are somehow a "moderate"? ;)
Yes! Lots of moderates and even real conservatives love our republic enough to oppose Trump and Trumpism.
Quote
I know your party encourages underage votes as well as dead votes. Approximately 160 million people voted in the election (including lots of made up ones and dead ones for the dims)
Got evidence of dead people's votes being counted? I will concede that it is likely that there were a handful of votes cast and counted that should not have been. Pretty impossible that have hundreds of millions of votes to obtain absolute perfection. However, no court, not legislature, not governmental entity has found enough error to put the result of the election in doubt. Georgia revealed that they detected the votes of two dead people, and did not count them. The statement did not say whether those ballots were submitted fraudulently or whether the voter subsequently died.
Quote
4 years of countless investigations by the DoJ/ FBI, the Senate and Congress. $50million spent, yet ZERO evidence ever produced of Trump involved in election fraud in 2016.
But his flunkies has their fingers in the Russian cookie jar. And of course, we have Trump clearly trying to extort Ukraine to interfere in the election. It is also a bit rich to be complaining about Congress's investigation of Trump after all the millions spent investigating Benghazi for no other purpose than damaging Hillary.
Quote
Yet with a growing mountain of evidence of voter fraud in various states, we are suppose to believe this was a clean election. :o
What material evidence? I had read a few of these affidavits. It was not relevant, material evidence. The reality is that there is no way that it would be possible to pull off the vast conspiracy necessary to swing the election by 37 electoral votes. This election was run mostly be GOP controlled states. The notion that all of them could work together to give the election to Biden, and not leave a trace that a court packed with Trump appointees, it silly on its face.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 06:45:42 PM
I agree. Welcome back Kristin.
I don't think you are "totally wrong", just mostly wrong. But I'm happy to hear opposing voices.
Thank you!
What about the need to preserve our republic than I am wrong about?
Post by: bflynn on January 06, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
Thank you! I respect your belief system. I don't live in myth, but this is a free country, and will be going forward.
I believe this country will be far less free in a year than it is now. Things are certainly going to change.
Democrats are going to drop a lot of new taxes on us, they have to in order to pay for their programs. Tighten your belt.
Law abiding citizens are about to be disarmed while the criminals with the unregistered guns will run rampant.
This is not what free looks like.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 06:53:12 PM
What had been your party preference? In other words, if you had been voting for the party’s candidates, what do you expect joining it will accomplish that you weren’t accomplishing before?
As a side note, I’m a lover of liberty, not political parties, except as they may coincide with my personal philosophy. That tends to put Libertarians nearest, followed by old-style limited government Republicans. I don’t know that I’d ever consider the Democratic party of the last 40+ years as champions of liberty by any reasonable measure.
I voted for Ford, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Colin Powell, Colin Powell, Colin Powell, Badnarik, Gary Johnson, Clinton.
My joining the Democrat party is a symbol. I reserve the right to vote third party or write-in, in the future. Only voting for the party who has assaulted our republic and whose loyalty is to a man, not to the Constitution, is out of the question now.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 06:57:01 PM
The Democrat Communist Party. The party with deep ties to the CCP. The party that uses hate, promotes hatred. The party that funds and supports hate groups such as ANTIFA and BLM. The party of antisemitism. The party of racial hatred and bigotry. The party that promotes the slaughter of the unborn. The party that promotes restricting and eliminating basic rights.
Yes, you will fit right in.
Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. You are entitled to your belief system. Belief fills the gaps left by lack of facts.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 07:02:49 PM
https://politicrossing.com/pictured-proof-this-is-antifa/
Before you can introduce a document in court you have to show that it was genuine. This picture would not make it. You can't show clearly what that purported tattoo was, and no validation that the photo wasn't photoshopped. Even if genuine, that would only prove one person might be an Antifa provocoteur. I would not rule that out, but if so, perhaps they learned that from the Boogaloo Bois as a few of them, and other right-wing groups, were arrested for rioting in Minneapolis.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 07:04:29 PM
You stroll back in here to troll? How predicable.
Glad I didn't disappoint. You need to be trolled with rational thought, though I doubt you will be hooked.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 07:06:27 PM
Free country before or after the gun confiscation that Biden and Harris advocated? Just trying to keep track of my liberty.
That is a very useful boogieman to manipulate those who need an AR-15 to feel like a man.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 07:20:10 PM
I believe this country will be far less free in a year than it is now. Things are certainly going to change.
Democrats are going to drop a lot of new taxes on us, they have to in order to pay for their programs. Tighten your belt.
Law abiding citizens are about to be disarmed while the criminals with the unregistered guns will run rampant.
This is not what free looks like.
Things are going to change, but not that much. The Dems can't be as bad for freedom is having a President-for-Life. America without our Constitution and the republic created thereby, we would look a lot like Russia . . . large country, run by an oligarchy, with lots of resources and not much economy, but lots of weapons. For me, the republic is the most important thing. Tax levels and laws with which I may not agree, is better than an oligarchy run by a strongman. It is notable that the revolutionary mob was loyal to one man, and not the republic or the constitution.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 06, 2021, 07:32:19 PM
That is a very useful boogieman to manipulate those who need an AR-15 to feel like a man.
Hmmm. Have you seen Biden’s long list of gun control proposals?:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/ (https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/)
Post by: Number7 on January 06, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
That is a very useful boogieman to manipulate those who need an AR-15 to feel like a man.
It takes very little courage to be a cunt and repeat worn out, talking points with ZERO backup.
Good work. You came back to remind us of how shallow you are. The shame is that we already knew.
Enjoy the reality once pedo joe and kamel-hair ho abandon you now that you served your purpose for them.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 07:47:06 PM
No jujitsu! The Constitution, which you have so little love for, or knowledge of, limits the courts to actual cases and controversies. This is to limit the lawmaking ability of the court. There is no actual controversy for the court if the complaintant has not actual injury of which to complain. Even the GOP packed appellate courts agreed with the trial courts.
Wow, getting deep into projection are we?
You legal "reasoning" leaves a bit to be desired, and it's clear you are leaving a few details out to steer your narrative. Typical.
This is of course a distortion of what I said. Even Trump thought Hillary was going to win, and probably wish she had, or he will in time. I disappeared because I had said what I wanted to say and had better things to do than repeat myself and chose to let the last three years speak for themselves. There was little point, without the facts of history subsequently provided, to deal with the toxic masculinity express from behind the anonymity of silly handles.
Oh c'mon Kristin, you can do better than that! LOL! Are you break into a karaoke rendition of "I am Woman" now? ::)
Yes! Lots of moderates and even real conservatives love our republic enough to oppose Trump and Trumpism.
Conservatives like George Will? David French? Bill Kristol? Paul Ryan?
Got evidence of dead people's votes being counted?
Go read the evidence. They were identified by name, former address and DOD. And they requested ballots, registrations and returned votes. All democrat, of course.
I will concede that it is likely that there were a handful of votes cast and counted that should not have been.
And why weren't those votes removed from the certification? PA had 205,000, WI had 200,000+, GA had over 100,000+.
NV had thousands of votes using empty lots and campgrounds as addresses, and thousands of votes from people living in other states. Shouldn't those votes have been removed?
Pretty impossible that have hundreds of millions of votes to obtain absolute perfection.
Isn't amazing that a typical vote rejection rate was around 3.5% in previous elections, but during this election it was only .34%?
Amazing huh?
However, no court, not legislature, not governmental entity has found enough error to put the result of the election in doubt. Georgia revealed that they detected the votes of two dead people, and did not count them.
Georgia:
Underaged votes.
66.247
Failed to reregister moving from one county to another
40.279
Voted in GA but changed address before the election.
15.700
Dead people voted.
10.315
Registered in another state but voted in GA
4.926
Ballots send to voters too early.
2.664
Felons voted illegally.
2.560
Unregistered voters
2.423
Voted in GA, but registered in another state.
395
Ballots registered too late.
98
But his flunkies has their fingers in the Russian cookie jar.
Never proven.
And of course, we have Trump clearly trying to extort Ukraine to interfere in the election.
You got the wrong guy
It is also a bit rich to be complaining about Congress's investigation of Trump after all the millions spent investigating Benghazi for no other purpose than damaging Hillary.
Please go tell that to the families of the dead guys left there to die so as not to embarrass Hillary.
What material evidence? I had read a few of these affidavits. It was not relevant, material evidence.
A few? Oh, so by reading "a few" that makes them all invalid? How rich! There are over a thousand. So why did the dims desperately not want these affidavits seen in court, or have the witnesses deposed? Wouldn't they have welcomed the chance to prove them wrong?
The reality is that there is no way that it would be possible to pull off the vast conspiracy necessary to swing the election by 37 electoral votes.
The evidence suggest a different story that you and your ilk don't want to see the inside of a courtroom. If it's all so transparent, why wouldn't the states allow forensic examinations? Why are they hiding votes?
This election was run mostly be GOP controlled states. The notion that all of them could work together to give the election to Biden, and not leave a trace that a court packed with Trump appointees, it silly on its face.
So you only get your information from trusted sources such as CNN, NYT and WashPo, and to feel a little intellectual PBS, right?
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 07:50:21 PM
Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. You are entitled to your belief system. Belief fills the gaps left by lack of facts.
The fact is you are aligning with a party that has deep ties to the CCP (fact), has a long history of bigotry and racism (fact), supports and funds hate groups (fact).
All easily provable.
Post by: Number7 on January 06, 2021, 08:40:11 PM
The fact is you are aligning with a party that has deep ties to the CCP (fact), has a long history of bigotry and racism (fact), supports and funds hate groups (fact).
All easily provable.
Facts are so racist to shallow, know-nothing, faux independents like krissy.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 08:46:12 PM
It takes very little courage to be a cunt and repeat worn out, talking points with ZERO backup.
Good work. You came back to remind us of how shallow you are. The shame is that we already knew.
Enjoy the reality once pedo joe and kamel-hair ho abandon you now that you served your purpose for them.
It takes even less courage to be an ass hat hiding behind a silly handle. So childish and so stupid.
Post by: bflynn on January 06, 2021, 08:46:53 PM
Things are going to change, but not that much. The Dems can't be as bad for freedom is having a President-for-Life. America without our Constitution and the republic created thereby, we would look a lot like Russia . . . large country, run by an oligarchy, with lots of resources and not much economy, but lots of weapons. For me, the republic is the most important thing. Tax levels and laws with which I may not agree, is better than an oligarchy run by a strongman. It is notable that the revolutionary mob was loyal to one man, and not the republic or the constitution.
I think you don’t understand, but implying anyone could become “president for life” is a major insult to service members. The patriotism that is found in the military transcends loyalty to any person or to a party....a dictator will never happen
But freedom is about more than living in a Republic. There must be more. If higher taxation reduces more people to being wage slaves, they have fewer opportunities and that is less freedom. If laws oppress one group for the benefit of another or favor one group’s ideas over another, that is a loss of freedom.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 08:49:33 PM
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 08:54:34 PM
Hmmm. Have you seen Biden’s long list of gun control proposals?:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/ (https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/)
Yes! Some I agree with and some I don't. Fortunately, we still have a democratic process so I am sure that there will be some compromise.
Post by: bflynn on January 06, 2021, 09:02:24 PM
Yes! Some I agree with and some I don't. Fortunately, we still have a democratic process so I am sure that there will be some compromise.
Lol. No, there will be no compromises. Democrats have no reason to compromise. BOHICA.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 06, 2021, 09:07:06 PM
Yes! Some I agree with and some I don't. Fortunately, we still have a democratic process so I am sure that there will be some compromise.
The few remaining Blue Dog Democrats are likely beholden enough to their party that they are unlikely to side with Republicans on gun control issues, and with control of the legislative and executive branches I see no reason for the Democrats to compromise on anything. The last time they held this amount of power they passed the ACA (Obamacare) - and the only compromises in it were due to differences within the Democratic party.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
Wow, getting deep into projection are we?
You legal "reasoning" leaves a bit to be desired, and it's clear you are leaving a few details out to steer your narrative. Typical.
When it comes to the Constitution you are like a dog watching TV. Come back with an argument and I will discuss.
Quote
Conservatives like George Will? David French? Bill Kristol? Paul Ryan?
Yeah! Conservative by traditional definitions. Not populist and seek small government, not an autocracy.
Quote
Go read the evidence. They were identified by name, former address and DOD. And they requested ballots, registrations and returned votes. All democrat, of course.
Where do I read this non-evidence?
Quote
And why weren't those votes removed from the certification? PA had 205,000, WI had 200,000+, GA had over 100,000+.
Source? Anyone can claim anything, but that doesn't make it true.
Quote
NV had thousands of votes using empty lots and campgrounds as addresses, and thousands of votes from people living in other states. Shouldn't those votes have been removed?
Evidence?
Quote
Isn't amazing that a typical vote rejection rate was around 3.5% in previous elections, but during this election it was only .34%?
Source?
Quote
Georgia:
Underaged votes.
66.247
Failed to reregister moving from one county to another
40.279
Voted in GA but changed address before the election.
15.700
Dead people voted.
10.315
Registered in another state but voted in GA
4.926
Ballots send to voters too early.
2.664
Felons voted illegally.
2.560
Unregistered voters
2.423
Voted in GA, but registered in another state.
395
Ballots registered too late.
98
Source? Anyone can make up anything.
Quote
You got the wrong guy
What do you think that is proof of?
Quote
Please go tell that to the families of the dead guys left there to die so as not to embarrass Hillary.
That is your narrative! The most that any of that would prove, if anything, was negligence.
Quote
A few? Oh, so by reading "a few" that makes them all invalid? How rich! There are over a thousand. So why did the dims desperately not want these affidavits seen in court, or have the witnesses deposed? Wouldn't they have welcomed the chance to prove them wrong?
What makes you think that some of these weren't looked at by judges and rejected? Some of these affidavits were not formally presented to the court by Trump's lawyers because they didn't want to risk disbarment by proffering BS. Most of these court cases, were political theater, like Che Cruzvara and his silly, groundless objections to electoral votes. It is telling that none of the autocracy party challenged the Congressional elections carried out with the same systems and ballots that they are challenging when they turned out to support Biden.
Quote
The evidence suggest a different story that you and your ilk don't want to see the inside of a courtroom. If it's all so transparent, why wouldn't the states allow forensic examinations? Why are they hiding votes?
What votes being hidden? Got evidence? Georgia, as an example was recounted twice and audited by a GOP controlled process.
Quote
So you only get your information from trusted sources such as CNN, NYT and WashPo, and to feel a little intellectual PBS, right?
ABC, the Economist, Fox, and a number of others when I am tried to get to the truth of something. You should unplug from Newsmax, One America, Breitbart, and the like.
Post by: Kristin on January 06, 2021, 09:32:31 PM
I think you don’t understand, but implying anyone could become “president for life” is a major insult to service members. The patriotism that is found in the military transcends loyalty to any person or to a party....a dictator will never happen
But freedom is about more than living in a Republic. There must be more. If higher taxation reduces more people to being wage slaves, they have fewer opportunities and that is less freedom. If laws oppress one group for the benefit of another or favor one group’s ideas over another, that is a loss of freedom.
I don't think you understand the basics of a system of government where sovereignty rests with the people. By living in community, there is always a restraint on freedoms and the good of the many are balanced by the needs of the few. The democratic process is how that balance is arrived upon. The alternative is a few powerful people deciding who gets what. Do you know of a country that has more freedom than we have?
What makes you think that the military would depose Trump? The military leaders have stated that they don't have a role in politics. They haven't dragged him out yet. Perhaps they will on the 20th. We shall see. If the military had to put done an insurrection mob like we saw today, there will be blood. Lots of blood.
Post by: nddons on January 06, 2021, 09:36:11 PM
That is a very useful boogieman to manipulate those who need an AR-15 to feel like a man.Boogieman? Both Biden and Harris committed to confiscating “assault weapons” on the campaign trail. A mandatory “buy back” is confiscation. The attempted confiscation of the most popular sporting rifle in the US won’t go well.
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2021, 09:39:29 PM
When it comes to the Constitution you are like a dog watching TV. Come back with an argument and I will discuss.
Yeah! Conservative by traditional definitions. Not populist and seek small government, not an autocracy.
Where do I read this non-evidence?
Source? Anyone can claim anything, but that doesn't make it true.
Evidence?
Source?
Source? Anyone can make up anything.
What do you think that is proof of?
That is your narrative! The most that any of that would prove, if anything, was negligence.
What makes you think that some of these weren't looked at by judges and rejected? Some of these affidavits were not formally presented to the court by Trump's lawyers because they didn't want to risk disbarment by proffering BS. Most of these court cases, were political theater, like Che Cruzvara and his silly, groundless objections to electoral votes. It is telling that none of the autocracy party challenged the Congressional elections carried out with the same systems and ballots that they are challenging when they turned out to support Biden.
What votes being hidden? Got evidence? Georgia, as an example was recounted twice and audited by a GOP controlled process.
ABC, the Economist, Fox, and a number of others when I am tried to get to the truth of something. You should unplug from Newsmax, One America, Breitbart, and the like.
If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 06, 2021, 09:58:20 PM
Do you know of a country that has more freedom than we have?
I’d like to give an answer:
The citizens of the United States of 2005 had more freedoms than the ones of 2020.
The United States of 1905 was freer than 2005.
The United States of 1805 was freer than 1905.
Source: the change in size and scope of the combined statutes and regulations of the U.S. Federal, state, county, and city governments. (Wasn’t going to provide a real source since didn’t expect one to exist, but checked anyway and found this reasonable facsimile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_legislation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_legislation) “This is a chronological, but still incomplete, list of United States federal legislation. Congress has enacted approximately 200–600 statutes during each of its 115 biennial terms so that more than 30,000 statutes have been enacted since 1789.”)
Likewise for percentage of the economy:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Government_Revenue_and_spending_GDP.png/800px-Government_Revenue_and_spending_GDP.png)
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States)
Post by: jb1842 on January 07, 2021, 07:10:50 AM
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 07:26:31 AM
I don't think you understand the basics of a system of government where sovereignty rests with the people. By living in community, there is always a restraint on freedoms and the good of the many are balanced by the needs of the few. The democratic process is how that balance is arrived upon. The alternative is a few powerful people deciding who gets what. Do you know of a country that has more freedom than we have?
What makes you think that the military would depose Trump? The military leaders have stated that they don't have a role in politics. They haven't dragged him out yet. Perhaps they will on the 20th. We shall see. If the military had to put done an insurrection mob like we saw today, there will be blood. Lots of blood.
I think you're idealistic and you don't understand our (military) culture. They will not be part of a coup and therefore a president is not only denied the power to enforce a coup, but they also have a strong force dedicated to the Republic.
The military would never depose Trump or any other legitimate president, but on Jan 20th he stops being president and it becomes illegal to follow his orders. Therefore, in addition to Posse Comitatus, nobody is going to be able to use the military to become king for life. It's a matter of honor to serve the country and not a person. That's why it's insulting to suggest that the military would be a dictator's muscle. Ever.
BTW, the military WAS called out to put down the crowd yesterday, the National Guard was activated to guard the Capitol.
I also think you don't understand the corruption of a system where a two party system means the people don't really have their own sovereignty anymore. Democrats are in power for 2 years and you can fully expect them to ingrain their biases and bigotry as law. That's going to restrict options further, more then it does today, and it's going to cost money.
As far as your mocking of the 2nd Amendment and ARs specifically, it is incomprehensible how you can preach the nobility of a Republic while mocking the means by which it came about. The 2nd Amendment assures all the other ones are ultimately enforceable by the people. If government ceases to represent all the people, then it it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. Ultimately, that's what yesterday was about, a protest about the rights of the people. Note, there were only a few arrests and just one gun shot in the capitol and none of them were ARs.
Ah, but you say, people can't be trusted to responsibly own guns, but this isn't true. There's over 100 million gun owners in the US and fewer than 15,000 gun homicides per year, most of which are not committed by legal gun owners or even by legally registered guns. The number of people who get guns through the system and then commit crime with them is fewer than 1 in 200,000. So, do you take away the right of the responsible 199,999 because of the sins of the 1? If you are an anti-gun bigot then you gladly do.
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2021, 07:41:01 AM
I think you're idealistic and you don't understand our (military) culture. They will not be part of a coup and therefore a president is not only denied the power to enforce a coup, but they also have a strong force dedicated to the Republic.
The military would never depose Trump or any other legitimate president, but on Jan 20th he stops being president and it becomes illegal to follow his orders. Therefore, in addition to Posse Comitatus, nobody is going to be able to use the military to become king for life. It's a matter of honor to serve the country and not a person. That's why it's insulting to suggest that the military would be a dictator's muscle. Ever.
BTW, the military WAS called out to put down the crowd yesterday, the National Guard was activated to guard the Capitol.
I also think you don't understand the corruption of a system where a two party system means the people don't really have their own sovereignty anymore. Democrats are in power for 2 years and you can fully expect them to ingrain their biases and bigotry as law. That's going to restrict options further, more then it does today, and it's going to cost money.
As far as your mocking of the 2nd Amendment and ARs specifically, it is incomprehensible how you can preach the nobility of a Republic while mocking the means by which it came about. The 2nd Amendment assures all the other ones are ultimately enforceable by the people. If government ceases to represent all the people, then it it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. Ultimately, that's what yesterday was about, a protest about the rights of the people. Note, there were only a few arrests and just one gun shot in the capitol and none of them were ARs.
Ah, but you say, people can't be trusted to responsibly own guns, but this isn't true. There's over 100 million gun owners in the US and fewer than 15,000 gun homicides per year, most of which are not committed by legal gun owners or even by legally registered guns. The number of people who get guns through the system and then commit crime with them is fewer than 1 in 200,000. So, do you take away the right of the responsible 199,999 because of the sins of the 1? If you are an anti-gun bigot then you gladly do.
Well said.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 08:26:09 AM
IMO Trump has lost it. I won't debate whether he ever HAD it, but if so, the events of yesterday show that he no longer does. I'm sure he did not intend for events to play out in the way they did, but he bears a large fraction of the responsibility for what transpired by encouraging his followers to march on the Capitol, and for failing to take decisive action to quell the uprising until things had gotten badly out of control. At the very least, his actions yesterday show an appalling lack of judgment and leadership. Even his one recorded statement was weak and suggests that the man is broken, obsessed, and not fully in touch with reality.
I do not look forward to the next two years (at least) and agree with many here that we are likely to see an assault on our freedoms as the left wing of the Democratic Party pushes for higher taxes and more radical infringements on the 2A. It could have been worse: we could have had Sanders! It is unclear whether Biden has the power to keep his centrist wing in control. But it's very clear to me that the Executive Branch does not now have someone fit for office at the helm, and has not had one since the November election and perhaps for some time before that. Times of transition are dangerous times for national security and Trump's clear incompetence to fulfill his duties as President makes the next two weeks especially dangerous. There seems to be no Constitutional way to remove him expeditiously from office - even Section 4 of the 25th Amendment requires a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress if the President insists that he is still fit to serve. This is a very wise requirement as it forestalls the possibility of a coup by a disgruntled VP and Cabinet. But right now, it prolongs the danger.
I pray for this Republic.
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 08:30:30 AM
I don't think you understand the basics of a system of government where sovereignty rests with the people. By living in community, there is always a restraint on freedoms and the good of the many are balanced by the needs of the few. The democratic process is how that balance is arrived upon. The alternative is a few powerful people deciding who gets what. Do you know of a country that has more freedom than we have?So what you’re saying is that when democrat mayors and governors stood down and let BLM and Antifa riot, commit arson and theft, destroy private property, deface and destroy memorials, cemeteries and statues, torch churches, attack government buildings, terrorize the populace, commit murder, and turn some of our largest cities into dangerous and hostile war zones, and allowed the mob to rule and put fear into the peaceful populace, is your system where sovereignty rests with the people?
What makes you think that the military would depose Trump? The military leaders have stated that they don't have a role in politics. They haven't dragged him out yet. Perhaps they will on the 20th. We shall see. If the military had to put done an insurrection mob like we saw today, there will be blood. Lots of blood.
Post by: Mr Pou on January 07, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
I agree with some of what has been said here and disagree with some, but I am astonished and dismayed that NO ONE HERE (as far as I can tell) has said what I'm about to say. I will assume that no one here will agree with this, and that's okay. But I think it needs to be said.
IMO Trump has lost it. I won't debate whether he ever HAD it, but if so, the events of yesterday show that he no longer does. I'm sure he did not intend for events to play out in the way they did, but he bears a large fraction of the responsibility for what transpired by encouraging his followers to march on the Capitol
On the surface I agree with some of what you say. But on the flip side, I reserve judgement until (if ever) it is known WHO exactly showed up at this rally. Once the word was out, it was quite easy for disruptors to arrive in the crowd, to incite what could have been a peaceful rally and/or to try and alter perception of the rally.
Was calling the rally the brightest move? No. Was Trump the reason for the violence? It can't be determined.
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 08:47:24 AM
IMO Trump has lost it. ... his actions yesterday show an appalling lack of judgment and leadership.
Trump's actions for the past 4 years have shown an appalling lack of judgement and leadership. Even things that he was "good" at, thing he gets credit for like the wall are a qualified success. It's a fraction of what it could have been if he had been level minded.
There's not a single place I'd say he was an unqualified success. Even in foreign policy, he did well in the Middle East, but our allies hate him.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 08:58:14 AM
Trump's actions for the past 4 years have shown an appalling lack of judgement and leadership. Even things that he was "good" at, thing he gets credit for like the wall are a qualified success. It's a fraction of what it could have been if he had been level minded.
There's not a single place I'd say he was an unqualified success. Even in foreign policy, he did well in the Middle East, but our allies hate him.
Not sure I would call the wall even a qualified success. ;) After all, very little of it has been built, and Mexico has not paid for what has.
Yes, he has shown poor judgment and leadership for his entire term. I've said that before, even here i think. I can point to MANY examples of actions of his that have either embarrassed this country or outright weakened it. My point was that yesterday raises all of that to a whole new level. It also raises the question of whether he should be removed from office NOW. I don't know if there is a practical way to do that at this point, but I am glad to hear that the idea is being discussed at high levels (reports of Executive Branch officials discussing invoking the 25A).
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 09:00:10 AM
Not sure I would call the wall even a qualified success. ;) After all, very little of it has been built, and Mexico has not paid for what has.
Yes, he has shown poor judgment and leadership for his entire term. I've said that before, even here i think. I can point to MANY examples of actions of his that have either embarrassed this country or outright weakened it. My point was that yesterday raises all of that to a whole new level. It also raises the question of whether he should be removed from office NOW. I don't know if there is a practical way to do that at this point, but I am glad to hear that the idea is being discussed at high levels (reports of Executive Branch officials discussing invoking the 25A).
I don't think it's a new level, it's the culmination of months of frustration.
Post by: Username on January 07, 2021, 09:01:32 AM
IMO Trump has lost it. I won't debate whether he ever HAD it, but if so, the events of yesterday show that he no longer does. I'm sure he did not intend for events to play out in the way they did, but he bears a large fraction of the responsibility for what transpired by encouraging his followers to march on the Capitol, and for failing to take decisive action to quell the uprising until things had gotten badly out of control. At the very least, his actions yesterday show an appalling lack of judgment and leadership. Even his one recorded statement was weak and suggests that the man is broken, obsessed, and not fully in touch with reality.I do agree with you. The image I have is of a beautiful marlin putting up a terrific fight for months but now is just flopping around the bottom of the boat while the fishermen try to kill it with clubs. Soon it will be hung on the dock so all the fishermen can take pictures and talk about how brave they were.
I pray for this Republic.
He's been under attack for five years. He's held up remarkably through all the attacks and lies. But now even his loyal supporters in the administration are turning against him to protect their own asses and court favor with the new order. It won't work. It never works. To the democrats being bipartisan means agreeing with them. But for Trump, he's now abandoned and alone. He fought the good fight as best he could against tremendous odds. He nearly won, but the mental and physical strain must have been overwhelming.
He did awake a sleeping giant who is now filled with a terrible wrath. We'll see if it makes a difference or if it goes back to sleep with the democrats' bread and circuses. I would like to see President Trump take a break from everything for a while. He deserves it. Then he can come back stronger than ever to lead a new party that truly represents what America is.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 09:06:16 AM
On the surface I agree with some of what you say. But on the flip side, I reserve judgement until (if ever) it is known WHO exactly showed up at this rally. Once the word was out, it was quite easy for disruptors to arrive in the crowd, to incite what could have been a peaceful rally and/or to try and alter perception of the rally.
Was calling the rally the brightest move? No. Was Trump the reason for the violence? It can't be determined.
I don't think I implied that Trump was THE reason for the violence. I said that he bears a large fraction of the responsibility. Of course, the largest share of that responsibility belongs with the criminals who participated in the uprising. But I don't care whether some of the protestors were infiltrators, much of what was caught on video strongly suggests that many of the participants, if not the vast majority, were actual Trump supporters, including far-right militia groups. I have seen no evidence that the insurrection was a false-flag operation, and I think it's grasping at straws to insist that it may have been.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 09:18:07 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 09:20:09 AM
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 10:22:18 AM
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 11:03:47 AM
Not sure I would call the wall even a qualified success. ;) After all, very little of it has been built, and Mexico has not paid for what has.
341 new miles completed
240 new miles under construction
157 new miles under the pre-construction process
Hardly call that "very little" 738 miles of a 1,954 miles. Many miles in Texas is so remote and rugged it can't be effectively fenced, but the environment provides the deterrent.
Yes, he has shown poor judgment and leadership for his entire term. I've said that before, even here i think. I can point to MANY examples of actions of his that have either embarrassed this country or outright weakened it. My point was that yesterday raises all of that to a whole new level. It also raises the question of whether he should be removed from office NOW. I don't know if there is a practical way to do that at this point, but I am glad to hear that the idea is being discussed at high levels (reports of Executive Branch officials discussing invoking the 25A).
National Security
The United States Has Brought the Leader of ISIS to Justice
Executive Order on Modernizing Sanctions to Combat Terrorism
Orders Additional Measures to Enhance Border Security
The United States has Liberated All ISIS-Controlled Territory
Trump signs order directing an increase in Cyber Security
Combating High Nonimmigrant Overstay Rates
ICE arrests 364 criminal aliens and immigration violators in enforcement surge
US signs proclamation against Female Genital Mutilation and Cutting
DHS is planning on denying green cards to legal immigrants if they receive federal or state aid
ICE raid hits 77 businesses in Northern California
End of Year Report: Deportations up 40% – Historically Low Crossings
DHS: Announces New Procedures for Refugee Admissions
Deportations Of Noncriminals Rise As ICE Casts Wider Net
DACA Renewals Drop 21%
30-foot concrete slab prototypes erected along border
ICE has conducted a MASSIVE raid on sanctuary cities this week – 498 illegal immigrants arrested
Trump has updated the travel ban to includes 8 more countries
Crossing The Border Illegally Is Harder Than It’s Been In 50 Years
Withholding Federal Funds from Sanctuary Cities – Must allow ICE access to jails and notify befor release
VA announces Access Standards for Health Care
Trump signs VA Mission Act
Enhancing Veteran Care Act
VA seeks partnerships to build and improve health-care facilities
VA announces Veterans Coordinated Access & Rewarding Experiences Act
VA, Ginnie Mae create task force to address mortgage refinancing issues
Telemedicine: An important tool for Veterans health
Trump Signs Bill to Streamline VA Disability Claims Appeals Process
Trump signs ‘Forever GI Bill,’ boosting aid to student vets
VA expands Tele-Health access
VA fires more than 500 feds under Trump, even before new accountability law
Trump signs VA accountability act into law, promises better care for veterans
Trump Administration Streamlines Veteran Medical Records
White House to launch veterans' complaint hotline
Accountability and Whistleblower Protection at VA
$1.6 billion down payment to start building the wall
Trump cuts off visas for countries that refuse deported immigrants
Rescinded DACA
Extreme Vetting' for some green cards
Deportation orders up 31% nationwide under Trump
Deportation Orders Up 30%
Miami has removed its “sanctuary” status
ICE raids targeting families net 650 arrests
Denver To ICE: Stop Arresting Illegal Immigrants At Courthouse. ICE To Denver: Not A Chance.
17 Texas sheriffs approved to partner w/ICE
ICE chief wants smuggling charges on leaders of sanctuary cities
New crackdown on 'so-called' sanctuary cities
Raids to target teenaged suspected gang members
Army Corps starts pre-construction work on border wall
Deportations in LA are up 60% alone
80% jump in illegal targets
Feds taking over Texas National Guard mission along border
Border Patrol Morale at Highest Level
Christian refugees admitted now outnumber Muslim refugees admitted
Bill allocates $1.6 billion for Trump's border wall
ICE crackdown scaring some families back to Mexico
Kate's Law – harsher penalties for previously deported criminals – Passes House
Number of refugees taken in is down 50%
Rescinded DAPA
Workers install final panel in upgrade of border fence
Raids turn Oregon city into ghost town
Ending “catch and release” immigration policy
Silicon Valley Staffing Firm Charged in H1B Fraud
Unshackling ICE – told that they can take action against ALL illegal immigrants – increasing presence in sanctuary cities
Trump signs new defense policy bill that rebuilds military, boosts troop pay
Top 5 ISIS Leaders Captured
Trump signs order to keep Guantanamo Bay prison open
US kills 150 ISIS terrorists in Syria airstrike during government shutdown
ISIS has lost 98 percent of its territory – due to Trump admin
Pentagon Announces First-Ever Audit of the Department of Defense
U.S.-Backed Forces Capture Raqqa from ISIS
ISIS facing imminent collapse in Syria's Raqqa
Gen. Mattis breaks down New Afghanistan Strategy
US-backed fighters 'seize 80% of Raqqa from Islamic State'
Mattis sees need for new DOD space programs
Trump calls for Increased Military: Senate passes $700 billion defense bill
Mattis seeks Indian role in Afghanistan
Mattis vows US support for Ukraine against Russian 'aggression'
U.S. Cyber Command will be elevated to a “Unified Combatant Command”
Mattis decides to withhold U.S. cash from key Pakistani military fund
Mosul liberated from ISIS
Mattis: 'Annihilation Tactics' Being Used Against ISIS
US, Gulf countries form new group: 'TFTC' to stem flow of terror financing
NATO weighs new 'Counter Terrorism Post' following Trump's demands
ISIS leader 'admits DEFEAT in Iraq and orders militants to flee
Mattis Gives White House Tentative Plan for Rapid Defeat of ISIS
James Mattis threatens to ‘moderate’ US backing for Nato over budgets
Trump DOJ Sues California For Interference With Immigration Enforcement
DOJ Halts Obama's Operation Chokepoint, Which Targeted Firearm Dealers
More than 1,000 arrests in sex trafficking operation
Four charged with leaks from Trump administration
Jeff Sessions announces new crackdown on 'so-called' sanctuary cities
Justice Department announces takedown of AlphaBay, the largest dark web market
Sessions's New Civil-Forfeiture Rules
400 medical professionals charged in largest health care fraud takedown
The Department of Justice Stands by Texas's Voter ID Law
Charges: Sex traffickers took hundreds from Thailand to US
AG Sessions is bringing back the harsher sentences for drug dealers
Sex Trafficking Arrests Soar Under Trump; MSM Completely Ignores
DHS is planning on denying green cards to legal immigrants if they receive federal or state aid
Trump takes 'shackles' off ICE, which is slapping them on immigrants who thought they were safe
ICE raid hits 77 businesses in Northern California
End of Year Report: Deportations up 40% – Historically Low Crossings
DHS: Announces New Procedures for Refugee Admissions
Deportations Of Noncriminals Rise As ICE Casts Wider Net
Economy
Trump Secures Historic Phase One Trade Agreement with China
US Economy Added 266,000 New Jobs in November smashing expectations
Trump signs Agriculture and Digitial Trade agreements with Japan
African-American Unemployment Rate Hits New All Time Lows
U.S. Unemployment Rate Falls to 50-Year Low; Trump Economy adding over 6.4 million jobs
US Economy Added 164,000 New Jobs in July; Wages increased 3.2 percent
Record 157,005,000 Employed; 19th Record of Trump Era
Boom! America Created 224,000 Jobs in June!
Best Economic Optimism in 16 years
480,000 Manufacturing Jobs added since President Trump's election
US job openings rise outnumber the unemployed by 1 million
Economic Growth Has Reached 3 Percent for the First Time in More than a Decade
Opportunity Zones A New Dawn for Economic Opportunity
Unemployment Rate Falls to Lowest Level in Nearly 50 Years
Proclamation on Adjusting Imports of Steel into the United States
LARGEST DECLINE IN DRUG PRICES IN NEARLY 50 YEARS
Trump Policies Keep Economic Boom Going As Job Gains of 304000 Surpass Expectations
MORE AMERICANS WORKING NOW THAN EVER BEFORE IN OUR HISTORY
250K JOBS ADDED IN OCTOBER
Manufacturing Confidence at an ALL TIME HIGH
Construction Jobs up more than 300K compared to last year
Food Stamp usage declines for 8 straight months
Middle Class income rises to HIGHEST on record
Consumer Confidence 18 YEAR HIGH
America is now the worlds largest oil producer
Fastest growing pace in 14 years for manufacturers
BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RECORD LOW
Jobless claims lowest level since 1969
Trump secures 2026 World Cup for the USA
Consumer Confidence Highest in 18 years
Black Business Ownership Under Trump JUMPS 400 PERCENT in ONE YEAR
Youth Unemployment Hits 52 Year Low
Black Support for Trump DOUBLES to 29 percent
RECORD Number of Employed – 63 Percent labor participation
Worker pay rate hits highest level since 2008
Black and Hispanic Unemployment rates hit record low in April
Business Investments up 39 Percent Due to Tax Cuts
Food Stamp Usage Drops Half Million in Single Month
Highest Ever Manufacturer Optimism over 94 Percent
Unemployment claims have fallen to a 45-year low
Trump Economy Explodes Record Number of Americans Employed Stocks Soar
FEB JOBS BLOWOUT 313K
GREAT AGAIN Household Net Worth Pushes Further Into Record Territory
U.S. Consumer Confidence Is at 17-Year High
US homebuilding permits soar to highest level since 2007
Economy to grow at 5.4% rate in first quarter
Roaring: Economic Optimism Index hits 13-year high, credit to tax cuts
U.S. jobless claims drop to near 45-year low
Wages jump to highest level since 2009 – up 2.9%
U.S. Oil Production Tops 10 Million Barrels A Day, First Time Since 1970
Trump Decreases Debt to GDP Ratio – First Time in Over 50 Years!
Jobless claims drop to lowest level in nearly 45 years
Apple to Invest $350 BILLION in US citing Trump Tax Plan
Utilities cutting rates, cite benefits of Trump tax reform
Over 100 companies giving 'Trump Bonuses' after tax victory
Black unemployment rate falls to record low
Trump adds 184,000 manufacturing jobs and continues growth trend
Manufacturing in the U.S. Just Accelerated to Its Best Year Since 2004
Trump Signs Korean Trade Deal
Trump Blocks Chinese Purchase of Qualcomm due to National Security
TRUMP SIGNS TARIFF ORDER ON STEEL AND ALUMINUM
Trump Slaps 30% Tariffs on Solar Panels imported from China
Japan Freezes North Korea’s Assets after Trump’s Visit
U.S. Trade Deficit falls to 11-month low
Trump Fights for ‘America First’ as 4th Round of NAFTA Negotiations End
Crude Oil Shipment to India Highlights Expanding Energy Partnership
Trump Blocks China from buying Semi-Conductor company, Lattice
Crude oil shipment from Texas opens new vistas in India-U.S. ties
Argentina agrees to allow first U.S. pork imports in 25 years
Trump orders probe of China's intellectual property practices
New memorandum to protect American IPs from China – Potentially save Billions of dollars and millions in jobs
Coal exports up 60%
China opens rice market for US exports for first time ever
U.S. makes final finding rebar exports from Taiwan
Renegotiating NAFTA with Canada and Mexico in order to make better trade deals – May terminate
United States and Mexico finalize sugar trade deal
First U.S. Natural Gas Shipped to Poland
Signed an Arms Deal worth more than $350 billion and various other investment agreements with Saudi Arabia
China, U.S. reach trade agreement on beef, poultry and natural gas
Trump orders a study on abuses of U.S. trade agreements – WTO
Trump slaps tariffs on Canadian lumber imports
Increased tariffs on Canadian lumber by 20% (worth $1 billion)
China buys more U.S. coal, sends North Korea
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) TERMINATED
Nikki Haley negotiates $285M cut in ‘bloated’ UN budget
WIC Welfare Participation Hits 17-Year Low
U.S. home sales hit 11-year high
Manufacturing Optimism Reaches Another All-Time High – 94.6%
Economy adds 228K jobs in November
Mining up 28.6% – Leads the Nation in Growth
Broadcom will move back to U.S. — and bring tax money with it
US private sector added 235,000 jobs in Oct – Beats Expectations
Consumer confidence highest level since December 2000
Q3 GDP at 3 Percent – Beats Expectations
Ivanka Trump creates new World Bank initiative to foster Entrepreneurship among Women
Consumer Sentiment in U.S. Surges to 13-Year High
63.1%: Participation Rate Reaches Trump-Era High
Unemployment down to 4.2, wages rise .5%
New entrants from outside the labor market made up 3.2
U.S. Factories Expanding at 13 Year high
Dow posting first eight-quarter winning streak in 20 years
Home builder confidence at 12-year high
Manufacturer confidence at a 20-year high
Tech giants pledge millions to Trump initiative
Q2 GDP up 3.1%
Sales of new U.S. homes rebounded in August
Federal Reserve: Household Wealth in America at record high of $1.7 trillion – Rising property values and Financial gain
Surging stock market powers U.S. wealth to $96.2 trillion
Food Stamp Usage Has Fallen Every Month Under Trump
Median Incomes Climbing for First Time Since 2007
Trump has signed a $15 billion relief package for Texas in the wake of Hurricane Harvey
Jobless claims drop to 240,000 – hottest streak in 43 years
U.S. Consumer Sentiment Rose in August
Recovery Is Finally Trickling Down to Least-Educated Workers
U.S. Job Satisfaction Highest Level Since 2005
American manufacturing expanded in August at fastest pace in six years
Donald Trump Ends Obama Effort to Waive Work Requirements for Welfare
Consumer confidence strengthens in August, second-highest level since late 2000
President Trump Cuts More US Debt for a Longer Period of Time Than Any President
Pennsylvania coal company to open a SECOND coal mine
Summer Youth Unemployment Falls, Level Since 1969
In Trump era, American corporations are seeing their best earnings in 13 years
US trade deficit narrows as exports hit 2-1/2-year high
Milestone for Trump: 1 million new jobs in six months
National unemployment rate at 4.3% (lowest it's been in 16 years)
13,000 jobs being created in WI – largest job announcement in WI history (Foxconn)
Black Unemployment, Lowest Level in 17 Years
Gas prices at a 12-year low
Some states are experiencing their lowest unemployment rates in their histories
Trump Announces $200 Million in Apprenticeship Funding
U.S. has record 6 million job openings, 6.8 million Americans are looking for jobs
CEO confidence highest since 2014
U.S. jobless rate falls to lowest level in 16 years
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
Trump signs bills that helps Veterans and Police officers by giving them Priority and Training
Government spending as percentage of GDP down
1000s of jobs being created through pact with Saudi Arabia
Executive Order on the Establishment of the American Technology Council
USA's small business confidence is spurring a hiring and spending spree
Alibaba Takes First Step To Fulfilling Jack Ma And President Trump's 'One Million U.S. Jobs' Promise
Slashing job-killing regulations left and right
Creating thousands of more jobs for immigration officers and border patrol
Signed a resolution encouraging women in entrepreneurship and STEM
Executive ordered all federal agencies to create task forces to cut regulations that hurt the economy
US Manufacturing Index at a 33-year high
Coal Miners are WINNING. Cut Regulations/Create Jobs/New Plant
US Economic Confidence Surges To Highest Level Ever Recorded By Gallup
Government
Senate confirms Trump's 170th Federal Judge with even more to come
Trump signs bill restoring funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities
Trump signs bill that makes Extreme Animal Cruelty a Felony
Trump signs executive order protecting Medicare
Trump Signs Bill Protecting Disability Payments for Veterans Who Declare Bankruptcy
Trump signs 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund into law
Trump signs bill to fund Autism CARES Act
Trump meets Kim Jong Un at DMZ and becomes first sitting US President to enter North Korea
Trump signs measure aimed at Preventing Veteran Suicides
Trump signs Major public lands Conservation bill into law
Trump signs into law Genocide Prevention Act
Trump signs legislation enhancing US Leadership in Indo Pacific region
President Trump signs Ashanti Alert Act into law
Trump Signs $867B Bipartisan Farm Bill with Welfare Reform Work Requirements
Trump Signs Law Punishing Chinese Officials Who Restrict Access to Tibet
Production of Hemp to become Legal in all 50 States with Farm Bill passage
Trump Limits Asylum Migrants must come in Legally
Trump Signs New Hezbollah Sanctions Into Law
Trump signs Opioids Law at White House event
Trump signs bipartisan Water Infrastructure spending law
Trump signs the Music Modernization Act, the biggest change to copyright law in decades
Trump signs bills to Help Patients stop overpaying for Medicine
Trump signs law ending Gag Orders against Pharmacists sharing Money Saving information
Trump signs bill requiring Airports to provide spaces for Breastfeeding Moms
Trump signs Karis Law on the 50th Anniversary of 911
Trump signs order to keep Guantanamo Military Prison open
Trump signs proclamation directing troops to secure border
President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong-un sign ‘important document’ at Singapore summit
Trump signs law giving Border Patrol better Fentanyl detection tools
Trump signs law expanding Hate Crime protections to Religious Institutions
Trump signs technical education bill into law
Trump signs law to expand Childhood Cancer Research
Trump signs bill easing U.S. bank rules into law
TRUMP SIGNS LAW FIGHTING SEX-TRAFFICKING
Trump Cuts aid to Palestine
Trump signs law creating national historic park for Martin Luther King Jr.
Trump signs into law U.S. government ban on Kaspersky Lab software
Trump signs Russia sanctions bill into law
Donald Trump signs law aimed at cutting abortion funding
President Trump signs law declaring National Vietnam War Veterans Day
Trump Signs 3 Executive Actions on Crime Against Police, Drug Cartels
TRUMP SIGNS NATIONAL DEFENSE BILL INTO LAW
Trump signs Space policy directive
Trump signs First Step Act criminal justice reform into law
Trump signs Historic USMCA trade agreement replacing NAFTA
President Trump secures release of Pastor Brunson from Turkey
President Trump Approval Rating at 51 Percent
Justice Kavanaugh SWORN IN to Supreme Court
Trump Shrinks Government by 16000 Jobs since elected
US Cuts 300 Million In Aid To Pakistan
Trump Cut Off 200 Million in Aid to Palestinians
Trump ends 230 Million Dollar Rebuilding Payments to Syria
Trump has our soldiers remains returned home from Korean War
Trump signs Right to Try drug bill
US Embassy moved to Jerusalem by President Donald J Trump
Trump secures release of American Prisoners from North Korea
Trump Negotiates Peace between North and South Korea
Trump Signs Order Calling for Work Requirements for Welfare Programs
HISTORIC: Trump Nominates First Woman for Head of CIA (Huge Mistake)
Feds collect record taxes in first month under Trump’s tax cuts; runs surplus in January
Trump signs sweeping two-year budget deal – MILITARY FUNDED
Trump proposes biggest civil service change in 40 years – 'Hire the best and fire the worst'
Trump signs bipartisan bill to combat synthetic opioids
Trump Shrinks Federal Bureaucracy by 16000
President Trump set a record for lifetime appointed judges in 2017
Trump Signed 96 Laws In 2017
Trump Administration Set to Roll Back $900 Million in Obama-Era Offshore Drilling Regulations
Individual Mandate of Obamacare REPEALED
Senate Passes Historic Sweeping Tax Reform
Climate Change REMOVED from 'Threat List'
Trump Admin is a Deregulation Machine: Eliminating 22:1
Trump signs $700 billion defense bill, gives troops largest pay raise in 7 years
New Space Policy Directive Calls for Human Expansion Across Solar System
Trump Declares Jerusalem the Capital of Israel
Senate Passes Sweeping Tax Reform – 20% Corporate rate – Largest in 31 Years.
Trump Shuts Down CIA funding of Syrian Rebels
House Passes Tax Bill in Major Step Toward Overhaul
Senate Passes Budget Resolution Clearing the Way to pass Tax Reform with a Simple Majority
Trump's HHS defines life as beginning at conception
President Trump Declassifies and Releases JFK Files
Iran Deal: DECERTIFIED
Four Months into FY 2018, Refugee Admissions Plunge to Lowest Level in 15 Years
US increases security screening measures for vetting refugees
US Delays Payment to UN for Palestinians
US Suspends $2 BILLION in security assistance to Pakistan
Global Magnitsky Act Signed: Targeting Global Corruption and Human Rights Abuse
North Korea Designated as 'State Sponor of Terrorism'
United States Announces a New Strategy on Iran
Trump Administration Announces 'Extreme Vetting' Plans
Trump cuts Obama’s refugee target in half, takes more Christians than Muslims
Trump: 'We are stopping cold the attacks on Judeo-Christian values'
Trump administration abandons the Obama-era clean power plan aimed at reducing global warming
School Choice tops the list of Priorities U.S. Education Department Grants
Trump Signs Healthcare Order, Expands Choice and Access through associations
US and Israel withdraw from UNESCO citing “anti-Israel bias”
Trump has written 46 Executive Orders
Treasury Department to target companies doing business with North Korea
Trump has signed 53 bills into law
New Order Indefinitely Bars Almost All Travel From Seven Countries
UN Security Council unanimously steps up sanctions against North Korea
Fewest Monthly Refugee Arrivals in August Since 2002
Trump to stop travel from countries that refuse to help Homeland Security
America has withdrawn almost $300 million in foreign aid to Egypt
Trump Signs Order Rolling Back Environmental Rules on Infrastructure
11,000 government jobs slashed under Trump – downsizing government
UN Security Council unanimously imposed new sanctions on North Korea
Senate confirms 65 Trump nominees for various positions
U.S. Small Business Administration opens assistance center
800 Obama regulations cut – Saved over $200 billion
EPA's Pruitt moves to roll back over 30 environmental regulations in record time
Cut the White House budget – Saved taxpayers $22 million
Haley Tells Congress US Assuming More Assertive Role at UN
Trump’s EPA To Repeal Obama’s ‘Waters Of The US’ Rule
Eliminated 1200 man hours of wasteful paperwork requirements including Y2K preparedness
President Trump Announces “Massive Permit Reform” Push
Statement by President Trump on the Paris Climate Accord
Treasury to call for rolling back banking regulations
Trump orders a Voter Fraud Commission to investigate 2016 election
Fired corrupt and incompetent FBI Director James Comey
HHS to Rescind Birth Control Mandate in Obamacare
Appointed conservative Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court
Ben Carson Finds $500 Billion In Errors during Audit of Obama HUD
President Trump's executive order will undo Obama's Clean Power Plan rule
U.S. Will have Free but Fair and Balanced Trade: Mnuchin
Executive order to reduce operating costs of the Federal Government
Fired all 46 attorney generals hired by Obama
Tillerson to shutter war crimes focused State Dept. office: report
Rex Tillerson, Mediating Gulf Dispute, Signs Antiterrorism Pact With Qatar
Canceled Obama Era special immigration program for foreign entrepreneurs
Critical milestone in the global fight against ISIS
Tillerson to back up Trump efforts to bolster Eastern Europe against Russia
Tillerson Tightens Limits on Filling State Department Jobs
Report: Trump plans to cut foreign aid, merge State and USAID
US to make at least $285m cut to UN budget
Tillerson on North Korea: Military action is 'an option'
It's a bloodbath at the State Department
Purging the State Department of Obama loyalists
Fixing lobbying laws – 5 year lobbying ban on White House officials
Put a regulatory freeze on all federal agencies
Cutting regulations in government agencies (add 1, take out 2)
https://wsau.com/2020/01/16/full-list-of-president-trumps-accomplishments/
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
I agree with some of what has been said here and disagree with some, but I am astonished and dismayed that NO ONE HERE (as far as I can tell) has said what I'm about to say. I will assume that no one here will agree with this, and that's okay. But I think it needs to be said.
IMO Trump has lost it. I won't debate whether he ever HAD it, but if so, the events of yesterday show that he no longer does. I'm sure he did not intend for events to play out in the way they did, but he bears a large fraction of the responsibility for what transpired by encouraging his followers to march on the Capitol, and for failing to take decisive action to quell the uprising until things had gotten badly out of control. At the very least, his actions yesterday show an appalling lack of judgment and leadership. Even his one recorded statement was weak and suggests that the man is broken, obsessed, and not fully in touch with reality.
I do not look forward to the next two years (at least) and agree with many here that we are likely to see an assault on our freedoms as the left wing of the Democratic Party pushes for higher taxes and more radical infringements on the 2A. It could have been worse: we could have had Sanders! It is unclear whether Biden has the power to keep his centrist wing in control. But it's very clear to me that the Executive Branch does not now have someone fit for office at the helm, and has not had one since the November election and perhaps for some time before that. Times of transition are dangerous times for national security and Trump's clear incompetence to fulfill his duties as President makes the next two weeks especially dangerous. There seems to be no Constitutional way to remove him expeditiously from office - even Section 4 of the 25th Amendment requires a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress if the President insists that he is still fit to serve. This is a very wise requirement as it forestalls the possibility of a coup by a disgruntled VP and Cabinet. But right now, it prolongs the danger.
I pray for this Republic.
So, should Joe Biden be held to the same standards Trump was held to? Should he face the same scrutiny?
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2021, 11:33:53 AM
You put the entire list of President Trump's achievements next to any swamp dweller, or liberal shit for brains and they dwarf them, but liberals are stupid and only believe what they are told to believe.
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
I don't think I implied that Trump was THE reason for the violence. I said that he bears a large fraction of the responsibility. Of course, the largest share of that responsibility belongs with the criminals who participated in the uprising. But I don't care whether some of the protestors were infiltrators, much of what was caught on video strongly suggests that many of the participants, if not the vast majority, were actual Trump supporters, including far-right militia groups. I have seen no evidence that the insurrection was a false-flag operation, and I think it's grasping at straws to insist that it may have been.
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants. I'm paraphrasing of course, but why are you back? What changed?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2021, 12:06:48 PM
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants. I'm paraphrasing of course, but why are you back? What changed?
(raises hand) oooh oooh I know I know
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 12:21:09 PM
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants.
LOL....Pilot's Place. Total lame aviation forum. Guy starts it so he can have his own "last" thread. Waste of bandwidth.
Post by: Little Joe on January 07, 2021, 12:43:21 PM
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants. I'm paraphrasing of course, but why are you back? What changed?I for one am glad to have her back and hope she stays.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 01:29:54 PM
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 01:35:29 PM
Should she have resigned?
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2021, 01:47:50 PM
Leftists are so thrilled that they got away with their coups that they are stupidly blind to how the corrupt regime no longer needs them to gain power.
Wait until they wake up and realize they are not the chosen elites.....
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 01:50:36 PM
She doesn't have a position yet.
Should she have resigned?
She seems to have broke with tradition. Others resigned and allowed their seats to be filled to aid in the transition. Kamala seems to be straddling the fence. Definite lack of confidence showing there.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2021, 01:58:06 PM
She seems to have broke with tradition. Others resigned and allowed their seats to be filled to aid in the transition. Kamala seems to be straddling the fence. Definite lack of confidence showing there.
nah, she is letting President Trump be her guide...
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 02:14:58 PM
341 new miles completed
That's the only total that really counts. "Under construction" miles may or may not be completed under the new administration. "Pre-construction process"? Gimme a break.
Quote
The United States Has Brought the Leader of ISIS to Justice
Absolutely, this is one success I give Trump credit for. The killing of Soleimani is another.
I'm not going to do a point by point with you on this. We can both cut and paste lists of putative successes and failures. I'm mostly concerned with Trump's foreign policy ineptitude, so I'll point you to the article below, which I think gives a good - and fair - summary of where Trump stands as a head of state on the world stage. I'll add his ordering an air strike on Iran and then withdrawing it at the last minute, giving concern about collateral damage as the reason, since it's something he should have known BEFORE ordering the strike, and the way he handled it projects an image of weakness and vacillation.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/)
On the domestic front, his botching of his border detention policy, losing track of the families of large numbers of children, has to go down as a colossal failure and a P/R nightmare of the first order.
No, Trump was not a total failure, but as @bflynn said, he had few unqualified successes, and NONE of that makes up for his post-election behavior. Nixon was a far more capable President (imo) in the foreign policy department, and he was (rightly) forced out of office when his involvement in covering up the Watergate break-in became clear. Trump deserves the same fate after yesterday.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
So, should Joe Biden be held to the same standards Trump was held to? Should he face the same scrutiny?
Yes.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 02:18:14 PM
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants. I'm paraphrasing of course, but why are you back? What changed?
It's the holiday break and I thought I'd check in again. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
I for one am glad to have her back and hope she stays.
Thanks!
TBH, after classes start again on Monday I will probably be scarce again. During the academic year I'm only active on one or two sites - mostly TPP. I've dropped off of PoA too for the most part, too much censorship.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
That's the only total that really counts. "Under construction" miles may or may not be completed under the new administration. "Pre-construction process"? Gimme a break.
No I won't, you once again refuse to look at facts. The "pre-construction" process means the money has already been allocated and the permits being pulled and material delivered. So add back in the original numbers and it is a substantial undertaking.
The new administration would have to get legislation passed to try to recover the money, and the contracts have cancellation clauses that must be paid. Little to no chance of that happening.
Absolutely, this is one success I give Trump credit for. The killing of Soleimani is another.
Great that you can acknowledge that.
I'm not going to do a point by point with you on this.
Because you lack the facts. No problem.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 02:47:24 PM
Yes.
So should articles of impeachment be drafted and sent to the senate on the afternoon of January 20th? After all, the evidence is very damning and easily rises to High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Should we demand a congressional hearing into his rape of Tara Reid? Shouldn't all women be believed?
Should a Special Prosecutor be appointed to look into his and his families shady business dealings? His taxes?
Should we get leaked copies of all his documents and leaked copies of his phone calls with foreign leaders?
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 03:59:12 PM
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:01:10 PM
Lol. No, there will be no compromises. Democrats have no reason to compromise. BOHICA.
There will have to be compromise within their own caucus. Unless they do aware with the filibuster rule, they will have to get some support across the aisle. Fortunately, the progressives are a minority of the Dems. Look for the big changes if the Trumpkins manage to primary the GOP moderates and replace them with ideologues who go down in the general election. I could see the Dems getting a super majority in that case.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:03:36 PM
The few remaining Blue Dog Democrats are likely beholden enough to their party that they are unlikely to side with Republicans on gun control issues, and with control of the legislative and executive branches I see no reason for the Democrats to compromise on anything. The last time they held this amount of power they passed the ACA (Obamacare) - and the only compromises in it were due to differences within the Democratic party.
As a point of fact, the Dems had a large majority in the Senate when they passed ACA, not a 50/50 split. Huge difference.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:09:16 PM
Boogieman? Both Biden and Harris committed to confiscating “assault weapons” on the campaign trail. A mandatory “buy back” is confiscation. The attempted confiscation of the most popular sporting rifle in the US won’t go well.
A limitation on one type of gun is not the same thing as getting rid of the Second Amendment. Even before we had idiots demonstrating armed with assault weapons, around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban. The pro-gun group are doing themselves no good.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.
The rhetorical and logical white flag.
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2021, 04:16:07 PM
A limitation on one type of gun is not the same thing as getting rid of the Second Amendment. Even before we had idiots demonstrating armed with assault weapons, around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban. The pro-gun group are doing themselves no good.
The Constitution doesn’t allow for communist cunts to decide which of our rights we are allowed to enjoy.
Nice try asshole.
You’ll fit right in once the purge begins.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:17:03 PM
I’d like to give an answer:
The citizens of the United States of 2005 had more freedoms than the ones of 2020.
The United States of 1905 was freer than 2005.
The United States of 1805 was freer than 1905.
Source: the change in size and scope of the combined statutes and regulations of the U.S. Federal, state, county, and city governments. (Wasn’t going to provide a real source since didn’t expect one to exist, but checked anyway and found this reasonable facsimile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_legislation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_legislation) “This is a chronological, but still incomplete, list of United States federal legislation. Congress has enacted approximately 200–600 statutes during each of its 115 biennial terms so that more than 30,000 statutes have been enacted since 1789.”)
Likewise for percentage of the economy:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Government_Revenue_and_spending_GDP.png/800px-Government_Revenue_and_spending_GDP.png)
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_States)
We were freer yet in 1805. One could always go homestead in some uninhabited place. Rules are a product of our urban and industrialized society. I do think we can use fewer regulations, but that is what the democratic processes are for. As messy as that it, we will have less freedom with an autocracy.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
I think you're idealistic and you don't understand our (military) culture. They will not be part of a coup and therefore a president is not only denied the power to enforce a coup, but they also have a strong force dedicated to the Republic.
Cultures change. What will the military do if the legislature keeps giving the president more power and the voters seem to agree. As a point of fact, this has been happening for years. Our presidents are much more powerful today than they have historically been.
I support the Second Amendment, but likely have a different view of its limitations than you do. Trump and his fervent supporters make clear that assault rifles are more likely to destroy the democracy than save it. Besides, if the military was the culture you say they do, then they will take care of any threats to democracy so the citizenry won't need to.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:28:53 PM
I agree with some of what has been said here and disagree with some, but I am astonished and dismayed that NO ONE HERE (as far as I can tell) has said what I'm about to say. I will assume that no one here will agree with this, and that's okay. But I think it needs to be said.
IMO Trump has lost it. I won't debate whether he ever HAD it, but if so, the events of yesterday show that he no longer does. I'm sure he did not intend for events to play out in the way they did, but he bears a large fraction of the responsibility for what transpired by encouraging his followers to march on the Capitol, and for failing to take decisive action to quell the uprising until things had gotten badly out of control. At the very least, his actions yesterday show an appalling lack of judgment and leadership. Even his one recorded statement was weak and suggests that the man is broken, obsessed, and not fully in touch with reality.
I do not look forward to the next two years (at least) and agree with many here that we are likely to see an assault on our freedoms as the left wing of the Democratic Party pushes for higher taxes and more radical infringements on the 2A. It could have been worse: we could have had Sanders! It is unclear whether Biden has the power to keep his centrist wing in control. But it's very clear to me that the Executive Branch does not now have someone fit for office at the helm, and has not had one since the November election and perhaps for some time before that. Times of transition are dangerous times for national security and Trump's clear incompetence to fulfill his duties as President makes the next two weeks especially dangerous. There seems to be no Constitutional way to remove him expeditiously from office - even Section 4 of the 25th Amendment requires a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress if the President insists that he is still fit to serve. This is a very wise requirement as it forestalls the possibility of a coup by a disgruntled VP and Cabinet. But right now, it prolongs the danger.
I pray for this Republic.
Bravo! I agree! I believe that the center will hold and changes will be incremental, but we probably need a few things that some folks might call socialist, but as long as the help the middle and working classes, I support any such legislation.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:32:53 PM
So what you’re saying is that when democrat mayors and governors stood down and let BLM and Antifa riot, commit arson and theft, destroy private property, deface and destroy memorials, cemeteries and statues, torch churches, attack government buildings, terrorize the populace, commit murder, and turn some of our largest cities into dangerous and hostile war zones, and allowed the mob to rule and put fear into the peaceful populace, is your system where sovereignty rests with the people?
I am not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting that because mistakes were made when faced with difficult decisions that we are better off with a non-democratic form of government?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2021, 04:42:27 PM
A limitation on one type of gun is not the same thing as getting rid of the Second Amendment. Even before we had idiots demonstrating armed with assault weapons, around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban. The pro-gun group are doing themselves no good.
What part of "shall not be infringed" is unclear?
And do you have a source for the claim that "around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban"?
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:45:59 PM
So, should Joe Biden be held to the same standards Trump was held to? Should he face the same scrutiny?
The law is the law. If he blackmails another country in an attempt to obtain help with his reelection, he should be impeached.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:48:03 PM
So today, January 7th, Kamala still hasn't resigned from the senate.
So?
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:52:15 PM
She seems to have broke with tradition. Others resigned and allowed their seats to be filled to aid in the transition. Kamala seems to be straddling the fence. Definite lack of confidence showing there.
It has been less than 24 hours since it was confirmed she had a new job on the 20th. Considering that Trump and Moscow Mitch have broken so many more important traditions that carping about this is very small.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 05:04:31 PM
The Constitution doesn’t allow for communist cunts to decide which of our rights we are allowed to enjoy.
Nice try asshole.
You’ll fit right in once the purge begins.
Fortunately, dip shits like you didn't write the Constitution and are not sitting on the courts to interpret it. Put down your AR and put you dick back in your pants and try to act like an adult.
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 05:05:05 PM
A limitation on one type of gun is not the same thing as getting rid of the Second Amendment. Even before we had idiots demonstrating armed with assault weapons, around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban. The pro-gun group are doing themselves no good.Civil rights are not subject to polls or mob rule.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 05:05:36 PM
The rhetorical and logical white flag.
If bullshit was brass you'd be a band. Just saying.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 05:08:06 PM
It has been less than 24 hours since it was confirmed she had a new job on the 20th. Considering that Trump and Moscow Mitch have broken so many more important traditions that carping about this is very small.
It's CCP Mitch. Take a look at his family ties. He's more attached to the DCP than the GOP.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 05:14:21 PM
What part of "shall not be infringed" is unclear?
And do you have a source for the claim that "around 2/3 of the population support an assault weapons ban"?
No right is absolute. None of them. Your reading would allow the private ownership of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons of mass destruction. Are you down with that.
I couldn't find the study I have seen, but this is probably a better analytical look. Obviously, the public's view of assault weapons depends a bit on how recently someone has shot up a school.
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/268340/analyzing-surveys-banning-assault-weapons.aspx
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 05:16:29 PM
Civil rights are not subject to polls or mob rule.
Right! They are subject to the interpretation of the courts.
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
Right! They are subject to the interpretation of the courts.Rights are not granted by government, sweetheart.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 05:22:55 PM
The law is the law. If he blackmails another country in an attempt to obtain help with his reelection, he should be impeached.
He did use his position unlawfully to get a prosecutor fired using taxpayer funds.
His family has very shady ties to the CCP with "loan guarantees" (multi million dollar loans with no interest and no repayment schedule), a laptop with bank statements, emails, and notes detailing Joe's activities using his office for "pay to play". Tax evasion, money laundering, just a good old family business using daddy's position to get clients and splitting the proceeds.
Let's not forget Tara Reid and his raping her (all women need to be believed, remember?)
Do we need more?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 05:41:54 PM
There will have to be compromise within their own caucus. Unless they do aware with the filibuster rule, they will have to get some support across the aisle. Fortunately, the progressives are a minority of the Dems. Look for the big changes if the Trumpkins manage to primary the GOP moderates and replace them with ideologues who go down in the general election. I could see the Dems getting a super majority in that case.So what did Chuckie mean when he said, "first we take Georgia, then we CHANGE America"?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 05:43:30 PM
Rights are not granted by government, sweetheart.You didn't expect her to understand that did you?
Post by: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 05:53:08 PM
No right is absolute. None of them. Your reading would allow the private ownership of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons of mass destruction. Are you down with that.
I couldn't find the study I have seen, but this is probably a better analytical look. Obviously, the public's view of assault weapons depends a bit on how recently someone has shot up a school.
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/268340/analyzing-surveys-banning-assault-weapons.aspx
If a right is not absolute, then they are not rights.
And yet, there ARE things the government is unable to control They cannot keep you from speaking, they cannot prevent you from self defense or practicing what religion you will.
These are things the government cannot stop you from doing, they can only beat you if you do them. Is that your idea of "rights"?
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 05:56:22 PM
No I won't, you once again refuse to look at facts. The "pre-construction" process means the money has already been allocated and the permits being pulled and material delivered. So add back in the original numbers and it is a substantial undertaking.
The new administration would have to get legislation passed to try to recover the money, and the contracts have cancellation clauses that must be paid. Little to no chance of that happening.
And Congress is now effectively controlled by Democrats, so getting such legislation passed is well within the realm of possibility.
Quote
Because you lack the facts. No problem.
So do you... see below.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 06:03:55 PM
And Congress is now effectively controlled by Democrats, so getting such legislation passed is well within the realm of possibility.
We can assume you are looking forward to free flow of illegal immigrants once again?
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:08:03 PM
So should articles of impeachment be drafted and sent to the senate on the afternoon of January 20th? After all, the evidence is very damning and easily rises to High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
The evidence of everything you allege is HIGHLY controversial. The evidence against the current President is not, except in the minds of conspiracy theorists.
Quote
Should we demand a congressional hearing into his rape of Tara Reid? Shouldn't all women be believed?
You blast me for lack of facts, but here you don't even have the right person. It's Tara READE, not Tara Reid (an actress) who has made that allegation. Since so far there is no corroboration, and since Ms. Reade's credibility is seriously damaged by other false statements she has made, I don't think a congressional hearing is even close to being appropriate for now. If other women come forward with similar allegations, that will change things, but we're not anywhere near that point.
Quote
Should a Special Prosecutor be appointed to look into his and his families shady business dealings? His taxes?
Not based on the evidence that's available now. So far, everything that has been used to support allegations of corruption has been debunked, as far as I'm aware.
Quote
Should we get leaked copies of all his documents and leaked copies of his phone calls with foreign leaders?
Now you're getting ridiculous.
And no, the claim that Biden pressured for the removal of Viktor Shokin to shut down an investigation that would expose Hunter Biden's shady business dealings doesn't pass close inspection either. But you're apparently deep into the conspiracy theory mindset, so it's useless trying to argue that point with you.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:10:14 PM
We can assume you are looking forward to free flow of illegal immigrants once again?
You'd assume wrong. Where would you even get such an idea?
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:13:22 PM
I support the Second Amendment, but likely have a different view of its limitations than you do. Trump and his fervent supporters make clear that assault rifles are more likely to destroy the democracy than save it. Besides, if the military was the culture you say they do, then they will take care of any threats to democracy so the citizenry won't need to.
Not sure I follow your logic here. What role did assault rifles play in yesterday's assault on democracy, other than as theater props?
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 06:19:06 PM
The evidence of everything you allege is HIGHLY controversial. The evidence against the current President is not, except in the minds of conspiracy theorists.
You blast me for lack of facts, but here you don't even have the right person. It's Tara READE, not Tara Reid (an actress) who has made that allegation. Since so far there is no corroboration, and since Ms. Reade's credibility is seriously damaged by other false statements she has made, I don't think a congressional hearing is even close to being appropriate for now. If other women come forward with similar allegations, that will change things, but we're not anywhere near that point.
Not based on the evidence that's available now. So far, everything that has been used to support allegations of corruption has been debunked, as far as I'm aware.
Now you're getting ridiculous.
And no, the claim that Biden pressured for the removal of Viktor Shokin to shut down an investigation that would expose Hunter Biden's shady business dealings doesn't pass close inspection either. But you're apparently deep into the conspiracy theory mindset, so it's useless trying to argue that point with you.
Exactly the reply I expected from you. ::)
I'd fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you came unarmed. ;)
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:21:28 PM
The situation is different in places like, e.g., Detroit. There is no one size fits all solution here.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:22:48 PM
Exactly the reply I expected from you. ::)
I'd fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you came unarmed. ;)
And that's exactly the reply I expected from you... a vacuous ad hominem. Another reason I rarely come around here.
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2021, 06:23:26 PM
BTW, just to be clear, I'm not a doctrinaire supporter of the 2nd Amendment - I do support the right of local jurisdictions to enact laws limiting the right to bear arms. I'm against such legislation on the federal level because it would then override the rights of local jurisdictions to retain or enact constitutional carry. I agree that no right is absolute, and there are places where firearms should not be allowed. But there are also jurisdictions where constitutional carry has been very successful - for example, my state of Vermont has one of the lowest per capita rates of violence involving guns of any state in the country. The efforts of urban transplants to enact strong gun-control legislation notwithstanding, there is no "gun problem" to be solved here, no reason to limit the right to bear arms.
The situation is different in places like, e.g., Detroit. There is no one size fits all solution here.
It's not location, it is the people. Jail the abusers of gun laws and other laws with no plea deals. Problem solved. Don't restrict the rights of the law abiding. Yes one size does not fit all.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2021, 06:23:41 PM
No right is absolute. None of them. Your reading would allow the private ownership of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons of mass destruction. Are you down with that.
I have no issue with private ownership of weapons of mass destruction. Mostly because biological and chemical weapons of “mass destruction” have for decades been in a fair number of private hands - some in industry, some in research labs.
It matters not a bit whether I am threatened or killed with a knife, a pistol, or a nuke - the intent or result is the same. (Speaking of nukes, I’m reminded of the last 5 minutes of the 1954 film “Split Second”.)
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 06:29:59 PM
And that's exactly the reply I expected from you... a vacuous ad hominem. Another reason I rarely come around here.
Always the victim.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2021, 06:34:05 PM
BTW, just to be clear, I'm not a doctrinaire supporter of the 2nd Amendment - I do support the right of local jurisdictions to enact laws limiting the right to bear arms.
Two points:
(1) Federal law generally trumps state law. So locally enacted gun laws cannot violate the federal constitution. So says the US Supreme Court.
(2) State constitutions can and do grant rights not enumerated in the Federal constitution. Gun rights exist in 44 state constitutions. Many do not contain any of clauses that confuse gun control advocates. E.g in SD it states “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.” One summary of all states: https://gun-control.procon.org/state-constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-2/ (https://gun-control.procon.org/state-constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-2/)
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:35:17 PM
It's not location, it is the people. Jail the abusers of gun laws and other laws with no plea deals. Problem solved. Don't restrict the rights of the law abiding. Yes one size does not fit all.
Yes, it's the people. And in an ideal world, in which the police had unlimited resources, I'd agree with you. As a practical matter, dealing with people who abuse the right to bear arms in a crowded city like Detroit would be an even worse nightmare for police without those laws. I see the laws as a tool in the toolbox for law enforcement to use to get bad people off the streets.
The best argument one could use against that is that it doesn't work, because the guns are mostly in the hands of people who don't respect the law anyway, and the law abiding are disarmed. That's a valid point, but I do think the decision should be left to the local level.
Post by: azure on January 07, 2021, 06:49:41 PM
Two points:
(1) Federal law generally trumps state law. So locally enacted gun laws cannot violate the federal constitution. So says the US Supreme Court.
(2) State constitutions can and do grant rights not enumerated in the Federal constitution. Gun rights exist in 44 state constitutions. Many do not contain any of clauses that confuse gun control advocates. E.g in SD it states “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.” One summary of all states: https://gun-control.procon.org/state-constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-2/ (https://gun-control.procon.org/state-constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-2/)
I think we agree on both points. For (1), I'm pretty sure DC v. Heller is the relevant ruling. And to my understanding, Heller does not forbid local jurisdictions from enacting restrictions on gun sales and licensing requirements, e.g. for a license to carry in public. It doesn't require universal constitutional carry such as we have in VT.
I do think that banning an entire class of weapons, e.g. "assault rifles", will be very problematic under Heller, especially since they are used by many people for legitimate purposes such as target practice.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:12:35 PM
Rights are not granted by government, sweetheart.
Maybe in your mind, but not in our legal framework. Some rights I would agree are, or should be considered inalienable. Those would be largely ones, the exercise of which, did not prejudice other's rights. Take this as a thought exercise. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Should this be read to prevent the government from banning the ancient religious practice of human sacrifice?
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:19:26 PM
He did use his position unlawfully to get a prosecutor fired using taxpayer funds.
His family has very shady ties to the CCP with "loan guarantees" (multi million dollar loans with no interest and no repayment schedule), a laptop with bank statements, emails, and notes detailing Joe's activities using his office for "pay to play". Tax evasion, money laundering, just a good old family business using daddy's position to get clients and splitting the proceeds.
Let's not forget Tara Reid and his raping her (all women need to be believed, remember?)
Do we need more?
Wrong again! Biden was acting in the interests of the United States and our allies to get rid of what they considered to be a corrupt prosecutor.
The GOP had plenty of opportunity and motivation to find something criminal to charge Hunter Biden with. Maybe they will, but it hasn't happened yet. Further, no one has linked any of Hunter's activities to Joe, beyond the blood link.
This Tara Reid? What does she had to do with Biden?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Reid
As I have never said all women have to be believed, you can take your straw man elsewhere.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:21:08 PM
So what did Chuckie mean when he said, "first we take Georgia, then we CHANGE America"?
I don't know! Ask him! Politicians spout platitudes constantly. However, you are not the one that gets to define what it means and expect others to rail along with you.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:24:02 PM
If a right is not absolute, then they are not rights.
And yet, there ARE things the government is unable to control They cannot keep you from speaking, they cannot prevent you from self defense or practicing what religion you will.
These are things the government cannot stop you from doing, they can only beat you if you do them. Is that your idea of "rights"?
The power of the state can do a fair job of preventing you from doing lots of things that people call rights, including your religion, if the practices thereof violate the law. Try practicing the ancient religious right of human sacrifice and see what happens.
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2021, 07:24:06 PM
Fortunately, dip shits like you didn't write the Constitution and are not sitting on the courts to interpret it. Put down your AR and put you dick back in your pants and try to act like an adult.
Typical lesbian bullshit.
Nothing surprising. Just pathetic.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:27:27 PM
Not sure I follow your logic here. What role did assault rifles play in yesterday's assault on democracy, other than as theater props?
I wasn't referring to yesterday in particular or in isolation, but I will play along. Were the theater props fake guns incapable of being discharged? If not, they are there as a continuous threat of violence. That is not insignificant.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
I have no issue with private ownership of weapons of mass destruction. Mostly because biological and chemical weapons of “mass destruction” have for decades been in a fair number of private hands - some in industry, some in research labs.
It matters not a bit whether I am threatened or killed with a knife, a pistol, or a nuke - the intent or result is the same. (Speaking of nukes, I’m reminded of the last 5 minutes of the 1954 film “Split Second”.)
Fortunately, wiser heads have a problem with the private ownership of nuclear weapons, as well as nerve gas, etc.
I doubt anyone really cares, but I would now support a ban on assault weapons, if properly crafted. I didn't used to, but have become convinced that they create more harm than good. I don't buy the argument that we need them in the hands of civilians to defend our democracy. I do support universal concealed carry and I do not support the 10 round limited magazines for pistols.
Post by: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 07:36:40 PM
Typical lesbian bullshit.
Nothing surprising. Just pathetic.
If you were remotely representative of all men, I would be a lesbian.
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 07:42:11 PM
Wrong again! Biden was acting in the interests of the United States and our allies to get rid of what they considered to be a corrupt prosecutor.
Lame.
About as lame as Joe Biden proclaiming during the campaign he had no knowledge of his son's business dealings, yet right there in the laptop from hell are the receipts. Also, remember the Biden Family business partner Bobulinski? Yep, he detailed the business transactions of Hunter and Joe as well as Jim. Money laundering, pay for play, tax evasion, connections with the CCP, massive "loans" with zero interest and no payback requirements (aka "bribes")
The GOP had plenty of opportunity and motivation to find something criminal to charge Hunter Biden with. Maybe they will, but it hasn't happened yet. Further, no one has linked any of Hunter's activities to Joe, beyond the blood link.
Wrong, but if CNN hasn't reported it, you won't believe it. But at least there is an ongoing investigation, which I'm sure Merrick Garland will shut down on day 1.
As I have never said all women have to be believed, you can take your straw man elsewhere.
On that subject (Yes I misspelled Ms Reade's name), there was never an investigation. When a democrat is accused of raping a woman, she's lying and it's a conspiracy. When a conservative is accused, "all women are to be believed". ::)
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
If you were remotely representative of all men, I would be a lesbian.
You're not??
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2021, 08:13:45 PM
Fortunately, wiser heads have a problem with the private ownership of nuclear weapons, as well as nerve gas, etc.
I doubt anyone really cares, but I would now support a ban on assault weapons, if properly crafted. I didn't used to, but have become convinced that they create more harm than good. I don't buy the argument that we need them in the hands of civilians to defend our democracy. I do support universal concealed carry and I do not support the 10 round limited magazines for pistols.
You clearly do not understand what an “assault weapon” is.
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2021, 08:17:33 PM
If you were remotely representative of all men, I would be a lesbian.
If you weren't such a fucking left wing nut job, you wouldn't hate men so much.
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 08:31:36 PM
You didn't expect her to understand that did you?I kind of expected her at least know about John Locke if not Thomas Acquinas. Maybe she heard of Thomas Jefferson.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 11:27:08 PM
Maybe in your mind, but not in our legal framework. Some rights I would agree are, or should be considered inalienable. Those would be largely ones, the exercise of which, did not prejudice other's rights. Take this as a thought exercise. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Should this be read to prevent the government from banning the ancient religious practice of human sacrifice?A right that denies life or liberty to someone else isn’t a right at all. You don’t have to go ancient. You can see “honor killings” that have occurred by Muslims in the US as being abhorrent violations of someone else’s life or liberty. That it is done in the name of religion doesn’t deny them their religion.
John Adams said that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. In other words, it relies on the decency of people to do the right thing. The Constitution restrains government, not the citizens, so the Founders presumed that men of decency would hold public office, but would be constrained by the Constitution when they didn’t.
“One of the foremost constitutional theorists of the founding generation, John Adams, observed, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”1 He wasn’t the only Founding Father to hold this view. Indeed, James Madison wrote that our Constitution requires “sufficient virtue among men for self-government,” otherwise, “nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another.”2
“Many of our Founders were men of faith or were influenced strongly by the Judeo-Christian tradition.3 They accepted the premise of mankind’s imperfect nature. They had experienced first-hand the oppressive dictates of Parliament and the Crown that led to the American Revolution. And they were rightly suspicious of the accumulation of governmental power by one person or a small body — “the very definition of tyranny” according to Madison.4”
https://constitutionallaw.regent.edu/preserving-a-constitution-designed-for-a-moral-and-religious-people/
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 11:29:17 PM
The power of the state can do a fair job of preventing you from doing lots of things that people call rights, including your religion, if the practices thereof violate the law. Try practicing the ancient religious right of human sacrifice and see what happens.See below.
Post by: nddons on January 07, 2021, 11:33:30 PM
If you were remotely representative of all men, I would be a lesbian.Ok, 2 points. That’s a pretty funny come back.
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2021, 02:20:51 AM
I kind of expected her at least know about John Locke if not Thomas Acquinas. Maybe she heard of Thomas Jefferson.
Yes, people need to read all of them. We are so far away from them that it is laughable what we've become.
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 04:55:49 PM
Lame.
About as lame as Joe Biden proclaiming during the campaign he had no knowledge of his son's business dealings, yet right there in the laptop from hell are the receipts. Also, remember the Biden Family business partner Bobulinski? Yep, he detailed the business transactions of Hunter and Joe as well as Jim. Money laundering, pay for play, tax evasion, connections with the CCP, massive "loans" with zero interest and no payback requirements (aka "bribes")
Wrong, but if CNN hasn't reported it, you won't believe it. But at least there is an ongoing investigation, which I'm sure Merrick Garland will shut down on day 1.
On that subject (Yes I misspelled Ms Reade's name), there was never an investigation. When a democrat is accused of raping a woman, she's lying and it's a conspiracy. When a conservative is accused, "all women are to be believed". ::)
What purported receipts? I say purported, as I don't think it has been established the authenticity of the laptop or any of its contents. I welcome actual investigations into it, but until authenticated, it is evidence of nothing.
As for sources, I usually need to see something reported multiple places before giving it credence.
Reade was not particularly credible to begin with as she has apparently changed her stories, etc. Given that she made this allegation with the GOP government and a GOP DOJ, the fact that her allegations went nowhere is fairly good evidence that there was nothing there. If there was, the GOP would have been all over it.
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 04:57:21 PM
You clearly do not understand what an “assault weapon” is.
An AR-15 is an assault weapon. An AK-47 is an assault weapon.
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
What purported receipts? I say purported, as I don't think it has been established the authenticity of the laptop or any of its contents. I welcome actual investigations into it, but until authenticated, it is evidence of nothing.
As for sources, I usually need to see something reported multiple places before giving it credence.
Reade was not particularly credible to begin with as she has apparently changed her stories, etc. Given that she made this allegation with the GOP government and a GOP DOJ, the fact that her allegations went nowhere is fairly good evidence that there was nothing there. If there was, the GOP would have been all over it.
Right. ::)
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2021, 04:59:42 PM
An AR-15 is an assault weapon. An AK-47 is an assault weapon.
Define assault weapon.
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 05:00:18 PM
If you weren't such a fucking left wing nut job, you wouldn't hate men so much.
I only hate men who have so little self-esteem that they need to prop up their shaky masculinity with hate, bile, and misogyny. I shudder to think what your mother must have done to you to make you so bitter.
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 05:01:49 PM
Can anyone explain this?
You mean the BS tweet, or whatever it is?
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 05:07:23 PM
A right that denies life or liberty to someone else isn’t a right at all. You don’t have to go ancient. You can see “honor killings” that have occurred by Muslims in the US as being abhorrent violations of someone else’s life or liberty. That it is done in the name of religion doesn’t deny them their religion.
John Adams said that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. In other words, it relies on the decency of people to do the right thing. The Constitution restrains government, not the citizens, so the Founders presumed that men of decency would hold public office, but would be constrained by the Constitution when they didn’t.
“One of the foremost constitutional theorists of the founding generation, John Adams, observed, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”1 He wasn’t the only Founding Father to hold this view. Indeed, James Madison wrote that our Constitution requires “sufficient virtue among men for self-government,” otherwise, “nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another.”2
“Many of our Founders were men of faith or were influenced strongly by the Judeo-Christian tradition.3 They accepted the premise of mankind’s imperfect nature. They had experienced first-hand the oppressive dictates of Parliament and the Crown that led to the American Revolution. And they were rightly suspicious of the accumulation of governmental power by one person or a small body — “the very definition of tyranny” according to Madison.4”
https://constitutionallaw.regent.edu/preserving-a-constitution-designed-for-a-moral-and-religious-people/
OK! We are making progress. You do agree that there are limits to rights. So the question is where that line should be drawn. Upon that, reasonable people can disagree. That is what our democratic processes are for. Burning down our democratic processes in order to protect your view of your rights is ridiculous. Get rid of democracy and you will find you lose lots and lots of rights. Not only will the new autocratic government come for your assault rifles, they will come for all your guns and will not care whether you hand is warm or not after they get them.
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2021, 05:49:56 PM
OK! We are making progress. You do agree that there are limits to rights. So the question is where that line should be drawn. Upon that, reasonable people can disagree. That is what our democratic processes are for. Burning down our democratic processes in order to protect your view of your rights is ridiculous. Get rid of democracy and you will find you lose lots and lots of rights. Not only will the new autocratic government come for your assault rifles, they will come for all your guns and will not care whether you hand is warm or not after they get them.No, I do not agree with that at all! Did you read what John Adams said, and what I said?
Freedom of religion is not violated, nor limited, because stopping someone killing someone else in the alleged name of religion is not a violation of the establishment clause.
Let’s start at the basics. Do you agree with the existence of natural rights, and that government doesn’t grant rights, but our Constitution guarantees those natural rights?
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 08, 2021, 06:00:23 PM
What purported receipts? I say purported, as I don't think it has been established the authenticity of the laptop or any of its contents.
The authenticity of some of its emails appears to have been established: when you have the entire original emails (meaning all the headers) from the machine’s email storage, then if the email providers involved were using current standards, it is possible to authenticate whether an email was sent at the claimed time from the claimed source to the claimed destination with the claimed message content. This is because such systems add things called DKIM and ARC headers that allow messages to be authenticated manually at a later date.
In fact a security expert did run a DKIM authentication check on one or more emails and verified them. This has been acknowledged by Hunter Biden defenders who nevertheless claim that it is possible someone could have created both accounts back in 2015 (remember the timestamps are also authenticated) with the objective of smearing the Bidens at some later date like 2019.
You can do a web search on keywords “hunter biden emails and dkim” for various stories. Here’s one in his defense:
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html (https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html)
Here are some technical backgrounders on DKIM and ARC:
https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/ (https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/)
https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain (https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain)
P.S. Most email client programs allow you to view all the headers of an email. It is worthwhile just for personal edification to take a look. The number of headers is quite mind-numbing at times. Check to see if any headers have DKIM or ARC in their names.
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2021, 06:05:21 PM
The authenticity of some of its emails appears to have been established: when you have the entire original emails (meaning all the headers) from the machine’s email storage, then if the email providers involved were using current standards, it is possible to authenticate whether an email was sent at the claimed time from the claimed source to the claimed destination with the claimed message content. This is because such systems add things called DKIM and ARC headers that allow messages to be authenticated manually at a later date.
In fact a security expert did run a DKIM authentication check on one or more emails and verified them. This has been acknowledged by Hunter Biden defenders who nevertheless claim that it is possible someone could have created both accounts back in 2015 (remember the timestamps are also authenticated) with the objective of smearing the Bidens at some later date like 2019.
You can do a web search on keywords “hunter biden emails and dkim” for various stories. Here’s one in his defense:
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html (https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html)
Here are some technical backgrounders on DKIM and ARC:
https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/ (https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/)
https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain (https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain)
P.S. Most email client programs allow you to view all the headers of an email. It is worthwhile just for personal edification to take a look. The number of headers is quite mind-numbing at times. Check to see if any headers have DKIM or ARC in their names.
Also add that many emails between HB and his business partners have been validated by using the business partners email accounts and phones.
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2021, 06:31:39 PM
Define assault weapon.
I’m waiting for that too.
I’ll help her. Assault weapons have a scary shape. Bad guys use them in movies.
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2021, 06:38:58 PM
I’m waiting for that too.
I’ll help her. Assault weapons have a scary shape. Bad guys use them in movies.
LOL!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 08, 2021, 06:59:29 PM
I’m waiting for that too.
I’ll help her. Assault weapons have a scary shape. Bad guys use them in movies.
And when the clip is empty, the gun goes click click click click click....
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2021, 07:05:05 PM
I’m waiting for that too.Plus, they’re BLACK! Apparently Black Guns DON’T Matter.
I’ll help her. Assault weapons have a scary shape. Bad guys use them in movies.
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2021, 07:16:31 PM
Plus, they’re BLACK! Apparently Black Guns DON’T Matter.
Well sometimes they’re pink. Guns for people with vaginas.
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2021, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 08:09:55 PM
No, I do not agree with that at all! Did you read what John Adams said, and what I said?
Freedom of religion is not violated, nor limited, because stopping someone killing someone else in the alleged name of religion is not a violation of the establishment clause.
Let’s start at the basics. Do you agree with the existence of natural rights, and that government doesn’t grant rights, but our Constitution guarantees those natural rights?
The only reason human sacrifice, which is unquestionably an ancient religious tradition, is because our society has deemed it to be such. Thus there is a limitation on a right, created by society. You can't say otherwise.
There are some natural rights, but we might disagree as to which they are and whether limitations can be placed upon them for the betterment of society as a whole.
Post by: Kristin on January 08, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
The authenticity of some of its emails appears to have been established: when you have the entire original emails (meaning all the headers) from the machine’s email storage, then if the email providers involved were using current standards, it is possible to authenticate whether an email was sent at the claimed time from the claimed source to the claimed destination with the claimed message content. This is because such systems add things called DKIM and ARC headers that allow messages to be authenticated manually at a later date.
In fact a security expert did run a DKIM authentication check on one or more emails and verified them. This has been acknowledged by Hunter Biden defenders who nevertheless claim that it is possible someone could have created both accounts back in 2015 (remember the timestamps are also authenticated) with the objective of smearing the Bidens at some later date like 2019.
You can do a web search on keywords “hunter biden emails and dkim” for various stories. Here’s one in his defense:
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html (https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-what-dkim-verification-of-Hunter-Biden-email-proves-and-what-it-doesn't.html)
Here are some technical backgrounders on DKIM and ARC:
https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/ (https://www.dmarcanalyzer.com/dkim/dkim-signature/)
https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain (https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-is-arc-or-authenticated-received-chain)
P.S. Most email client programs allow you to view all the headers of an email. It is worthwhile just for personal edification to take a look. The number of headers is quite mind-numbing at times. Check to see if any headers have DKIM or ARC in their names.
Anything coded on a hard drive in 1's and 0's can be created out of whole cloth. They fact that this laptop came through Guiliani makes it suspect to begin with. Apparently the FBI has looked at the laptop and the emails and have done nothing more about them with respect to anything Hunter might have done that implicated Joe.
But lets assume for sake of argument that it really was Hunter's laptop and there are genuine emails in it. What do they prove against Joe? Got any examples?
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 08, 2021, 11:09:21 PM
Anything coded on a hard drive in 1's and 0's can be created out of whole cloth.
Sigh. That’s “not even wrong.” Consider:
When one financial institution needs to communicate over public networks with another such institute, they use an agreed upon process to insure the other end is who it claims to be (i.e. avoid someone intercepting and pretending to be the destination) before they exchange sensitive information. This is known as authentication (encryption is the process of hiding the exchanged information from eavesdroppers. You can authenticate without encrypting or encrypt without authenticating, but often both are done.) Email uses the same authentication protocols (this is one case where encryption was not traditionally done, though now TLS is used to encrypt.) If the sequence of bits needed to fake the authentication could be trivially created from whole cloth, the internet would cease to exist as a reliable communication medium.
So your objection is technically wrong. Nice try, counselor.
Lastly and least importantly, I have some modest expertise in this area, as I was the sole author of a product to test TLS 1.2, a version of the primary protocol used to secure web communication:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150814144639/http://iwl.com/protocol-testing/ssl-tls (https://web.archive.org/web/20150814144639/http://iwl.com/protocol-testing/ssl-tls) (Alas there aren’t a lot of customers for such a product and we never recouped development costs, so after I retired the company eventually stopped trying to sell it.)
Quote
They fact that this laptop came through Guiliani makes it suspect to begin with. Apparently the FBI has looked at the laptop and the emails and have done nothing more about them with respect to anything Hunter might have done that implicated Joe.
But lets assume for sake of argument that it really was Hunter's laptop and there are genuine emails in it. What do they prove against Joe? Got any examples?
I only responded to set the record straight on the establishment of authenticity of the email contents. I’ll let others who may be more familiar with the contents take a stab at answering your last questions.
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 05:27:18 AM
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 06:36:10 AM
Quote
I swear. The entire Washington establishment is poised. They are recoiling in fear. They are cowering in fear in the corners. They are scared to death of Donald Trump. They are scared to death of you. You have been defeated. You have been vanquished. Donald Trump has been vanquished. But he hasn’t left. He hasn’t left town. He hasn’t apologized.
He hasn’t said he won’t do it again, whatever it is, and they’re gonna be like this — do you understand? — for the next 12 days. In case you missed it, Nancy Pelosi, according to top-of-the-hour propaganda on the radio from an EIB affiliate… Well, I’m assuming it’s radio. Yeah, ’cause our listeners would be listening to the EIB Network radio facilitate and local news or national news network.
Pelosi has called the military and put ’em on standby in case Trump launches the nuke codes. Who are we gonna nuke? The little pot-bellied dictator, Kim Jong-un? What are they terrified of? They’re terrified that Trump is gonna unleash classified documents. You know, he’s got a bevy of ’em, folks. He’s got classified documents about the hoax, the four-year coup.
The four-year coup, the four-year effort to get the election results of 2016 overturned. There are all kinds of people who broke the law, all kinds of people who are quaking in their boots. They’re worried silly that Trump is gonna unleash some of these classified documents. Do you know what else they’re worried about? Do you know what else they’re scared of?
They are scared to death — they are terrified — that Trump is gonna pardon people who are dangerous to the establishment. Call it the swamp if you want. Because let me tell you, nothing’s changed. The people in the Washington establishment, why did they want to stop Trump in the first place? Because they didn’t want what they have been up to (which is no good) for years to ever come out.
They didn’t want Trump to discover it and release it. They remain petrified for the next 12 days that Trump is going to release — somehow, some way — what he knows about these people. In other words, they’re worried to death that he’s got a card or two to play here yet, including the pardon power. They’ve got a lot of stuff to keep covered up. I don’t know if Trump’s gonna write a book.
Post by: Anthony on January 09, 2021, 06:48:01 AM
Post by: Palmpilot on January 09, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
The poll:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/oakpejbjqvr/Topline%20Reuters%20Capitol%20Unrest%20Overnight%20Survey%201%2008%202021.pdf
Don't worry: If you don't want it to be true, that means it isn't, right?
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 07:52:03 AM
I predict this will be dismissed here:
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
The poll:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/oakpejbjqvr/Topline%20Reuters%20Capitol%20Unrest%20Overnight%20Survey%201%2008%202021.pdf
Don't worry: If you don't want it to be true, that means it isn't, right?
Thanks for yet another one of your content free drive bys.
Post by: Username on January 09, 2021, 08:12:14 AM
I predict this will be dismissed here:So he encouraged a protest. He told his followers to march to the capitol.
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
If a protest escalates into a riot everyone who encourages that protest should be punished? Let's see how many of our esteemed representatives and senators and other elected officials encouraged BLM and Antifa protests that escalated in the burning of Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, and on and on. They should also be impeached and punished?
Trump did not say storm the Capitol. He said march to the Capitol. So all marches to the Capitol should be banned just in case they get out of control? And then there's the representatives and senators who encouraged storming the Senate during the Kavenaugh hearings. They should also be impeached and punished?
Let's look at the question: "Do you support or oppose the protesters who broke into the U.S. Capitol" Of course most people will say they oppose this. Just like most people will say that they oppose protesters burning Portland, Seattle, and on and on.
At least fifty-seven percent of Americans are idiots. And I'm not sure about the rest.
Post by: Anthony on January 09, 2021, 08:23:48 AM
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 08:45:34 AM
Reuters like the vast majority of media is Leftist biased. I don’t believe their poll numbers and they are just advancing the Democrat Marxist narrative.
Democrat Communist Party. They own it now.
Post by: Number7 on January 09, 2021, 09:15:02 AM
I predict this will be dismissed here:
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
The poll:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/oakpejbjqvr/Topline%20Reuters%20Capitol%20Unrest%20Overnight%20Survey%201%2008%202021.pdf
Don't worry: If you don't want it to be true, that means it isn't, right?
You are projecting again, little man.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/01/stunning_rasmussen_poll_shows_em_rising_approvalem_of_trump_in_the_wake_of_the_capitol_incursion.html
If you hate the truth, just go ahead and call it a lie, like always. We don't expect anything less pathetic.
You know....
Like the good communists at twitter, facebook and the other propaganda arms of the communist (democrat) party.
https://www.rightjournalism.com/by-banning-trump-and-mass-banning-conservatives-today-twitter-can-now-be-considered-as-a-publisher-and-should-lose-section-230-protections-according-to-trumps-executive-order-on-preventing-online-c/
Post by: Rush on January 09, 2021, 09:21:26 AM
I predict this will be dismissed here:
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
The poll:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/oakpejbjqvr/Topline%20Reuters%20Capitol%20Unrest%20Overnight%20Survey%201%2008%202021.pdf
Don't worry: If you don't want it to be true, that means it isn't, right?
AOC or Kommula Harris, I forget which of those little Marxist bitches, said, “They should continue doing it,” about the BLM/Antifa riots this summer as they trashed and burned hundreds of businesses, destroyed property values, damaged peoples vehicles, etc.
Here’s a truth bomb for you: If riots attack the American middle class it’s just fine. If they attack the sanctified halls of the now commie political elite, you’re a domestic terrorist.
“We are king, you dare not attack us, but go ahead and destroy the self sufficient middle class. They are the enemy of communism; you’re just helping us get a head start on what we plan to do anyway with policy.”
Post by: Number7 on January 09, 2021, 09:25:39 AM
Then the commie schools taught them that it is hate speech to tell them the truth if it hurts their self esteem.
Look at what infuriates a liberal...
The truth sets those pussies off like an atom bomb.
Their lies give them comfort and they will kill to maintain their make believe reality.
Post by: Anthony on January 09, 2021, 09:27:38 AM
Post by: Number7 on January 09, 2021, 09:37:24 AM
The Royals (Democrats and their elite cronies in Tech and the Media) need to see a guillotine, gallows and firing squads to get them to stop pushing oppression of the American People.
I disagree.
All it will take is for the rest of the country to stop enabling the little pussies.
Ignore their protestations.
Laugh at their hurt feelings.
Offer them no special consideration, at all.
Treat them like the adults they are supposed to be.
Fire the ones that are useless and don't hire the rest.
Refuse to let them set the rules anymore.
If lesbians don't like people pointing out that they are lesbians, oh well...
It's a cruel world, kristen.
THEN
Delete your facebook, twitter accounts and the rest.
Stop buying apple devices, refuse to participate in their platforms and programs.
Cut google off from your daily life.
Starve their masters out of business and you cut the head off the pussy factory.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 09, 2021, 10:34:09 AM
I predict this will be dismissed here:
"(Reuters) - Fifty-seven percent of Americans want Republican President Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office after he encouraged a protest this week that escalated into a deadly riot inside the U.S. Capitol, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll."
"Nearly 70% of Americans surveyed also said they disapprove of Trump’s actions in the run-up to Wednesday’s assault. At a rally earlier in the day, Trump had exhorted thousands of his followers to march to the Capitol."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
The poll:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/oakpejbjqvr/Topline%20Reuters%20Capitol%20Unrest%20Overnight%20Survey%201%2008%202021.pdf
Don't worry: If you don't want it to be true, that means it isn't, right?
Reuters is lying about its own poll. Only 44% want the president removed immediately. They added in the 13% who agreed with the statement “Donald Trump should resign from the presidency” which is not an involuntary act nor time limited.
Sadly, it is fairly common for the populace, when polled during times of strife, to come down against the exercise of free speech by minority groups.
Post by: Little Joe on January 09, 2021, 02:29:23 PM
So all marches to the Capitol should be banned just in case they get out of control?I'd be good with that. You know who would be most effected though, don't you?
Post by: Rush on January 09, 2021, 02:53:01 PM
I'd be good with that. You know who would be most effected though, don't you?
You don’t understand. Marches by white people are banned. If you are black or you are white and support BLM you are good to go. If you are black and support Trump then you are not only banned, you are shamed because you “ain’t black”. You get to be hauled up in front of king Biden and scolded for voting wrong for your color which you are only impersonating.
Boy they are really pissed at the blacks that are deciding to side with someone that’s not the Dem Machine in Charge.
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:07:30 PM
Sigh. That’s “not even wrong.” Consider:
When one financial institution needs to communicate over public networks with another such institute, they use an agreed upon process to insure the other end is who it claims to be (i.e. avoid someone intercepting and pretending to be the destination) before they exchange sensitive information. This is known as authentication (encryption is the process of hiding the exchanged information from eavesdroppers. You can authenticate without encrypting or encrypt without authenticating, but often both are done.) Email uses the same authentication protocols (this is one case where encryption was not traditionally done, though now TLS is used to encrypt.) If the sequence of bits needed to fake the authentication could be trivially created from whole cloth, the internet would cease to exist as a reliable communication medium.
So your objection is technically wrong. Nice try, counselor.
Lastly and least importantly, I have some modest expertise in this area, as I was the sole author of a product to test TLS 1.2, a version of the primary protocol used to secure web communication:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150814144639/http://iwl.com/protocol-testing/ssl-tls (https://web.archive.org/web/20150814144639/http://iwl.com/protocol-testing/ssl-tls) (Alas there aren’t a lot of customers for such a product and we never recouped development costs, so after I retired the company eventually stopped trying to sell it.)
I only responded to set the record straight on the establishment of authenticity of the email contents. I’ll let others who may be more familiar with the contents take a stab at answering your last questions.
What you are talking about is a dynamic process. This apparently involves emails that has sat in a laptop for years before allegedly being "discovered". Some may be authenticated if you can obtain other copies of the email. But is a static thing, an email is just a file. There is no imprimatur by god emblazoned on the file to prove that it is the real deal. And just because you can authenticate it, you then have to figure out what it means before using it as evidence. The justice department run by Trump's picked lap dog apparently brought no charges related to anything to do with Joe Biden. In fact, even Hunter's business seemed to only merit investigation to the extent that there might be tax fraud. That investigation is ongoing.
The most likely explanation is that Hunter Biden used his position as the son of the VP to leverage that to make money. A bit unethical IMO, but he is not the first offspring of someone famous to do that. In itself, it is not illegal.
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:09:19 PM
The time for the Continental Army is here as we are now a colony again, but this time of China. That's all we are. Who will be the next Washington?
More like who will be the next Hugo Chavez. That is the result you will get if you destroy this democracy.
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:15:10 PM
So he encouraged a protest. He told his followers to march to the capitol.
If a protest escalates into a riot everyone who encourages that protest should be punished? Let's see how many of our esteemed representatives and senators and other elected officials encouraged BLM and Antifa protests that escalated in the burning of Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, and on and on. They should also be impeached and punished?
Trump did not say storm the Capitol. He said march to the Capitol. So all marches to the Capitol should be banned just in case they get out of control? And then there's the representatives and senators who encouraged storming the Senate during the Kavenaugh hearings. They should also be impeached and punished?
Let's look at the question: "Do you support or oppose the protesters who broke into the U.S. Capitol" Of course most people will say they oppose this. Just like most people will say that they oppose protesters burning Portland, Seattle, and on and on.
At least fifty-seven percent of Americans are idiots. And I'm not sure about the rest.
More like Al Baghdadi who radicalizes the masses by convincing them that their world is slipping away from them and then giving them a group to blame. Trump has fed them lies and then encouraged them to march on the capital and to be strong to win. This is right out of the ISIS playbook and it works beautifully. I used to think that what happened in Germany under Hitler couldn't happen here. I was wrong. I used to think we were better than Islamist radicals because out people were more patriotic and had a much better standard of living. Again, I was wrong.
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:17:41 PM
You are projecting again, little man.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/01/stunning_rasmussen_poll_shows_em_rising_approvalem_of_trump_in_the_wake_of_the_capitol_incursion.html
If you hate the truth, just go ahead and call it a lie, like always. We don't expect anything less pathetic.
You know....
Like the good communists at twitter, facebook and the other propaganda arms of the communist (democrat) party.
https://www.rightjournalism.com/by-banning-trump-and-mass-banning-conservatives-today-twitter-can-now-be-considered-as-a-publisher-and-should-lose-section-230-protections-according-to-trumps-executive-order-on-preventing-online-c/
On one side is bias and the other BS. So much fun trying to find the truth, but still worth the effort. Though all polls are suspect in this day and age.
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:20:25 PM
The Royals (Democrats and their elite cronies in Tech and the Media) need to see a guillotine, gallows and firing squads to get them to stop pushing oppression of the American People.
You need to live in almost any other country and see what oppression is really like. You fly planes? Do you own one? Poor oppressed baby!
Post by: Kristin on January 09, 2021, 03:24:18 PM
You don’t understand. Marches by white people are banned. If you are black or you are white and support BLM you are good to go. If you are black and support Trump then you are not only banned, you are shamed because you “ain’t black”. You get to be hauled up in front of king Biden and scolded for voting wrong for your color which you are only impersonating.
Boy they are really pissed at the blacks that are deciding to side with someone that’s not the Dem Machine in Charge.
Marches by black people are treated much more harshly than the white crowd was on Wednesday. That should be apparent to anyone who watched.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 09, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 04:11:21 PM
More like who will be the next Hugo Chavez. That is the result you will get if you destroy this democracy.
The DCP is moving right along with that quest.
And it's a bit ironic you bring up Hugo Chavez. Where did Dominion originate?
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 04:20:13 PM
https://www.westernjournal.com/defense-officials-confirm-trump-still-commander-chief-refuse-participate-military-coup-oust/
Post by: Rush on January 09, 2021, 05:09:29 PM
Nancy goes full unhinged (again)
https://www.westernjournal.com/defense-officials-confirm-trump-still-commander-chief-refuse-participate-military-coup-oust/
So, arrest Nancy Pelosi for conspiracy to commit a military coup.
“Mr. Trump, they noted, is still the commander in chief; unless he is removed, the military is bound to follow his lawful orders. While military officials can refuse to carry out orders they view as illegal — or slow the process by sending those orders for careful legal review — they cannot remove the president from the chain of command. That would amount to a military coup, the officials said,”
She’s projecting again. It’s the left that’s “unhinged”, not Trump. And she is very dangerous. Signaling to our enemies the depth of the divide within our government. She apparently does not understand the significance of what she is suggesting.
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 05:27:07 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 05:30:21 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 09, 2021, 05:34:45 PM
Post by: Number7 on January 09, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
Marches by black people are treated much more harshly than the white crowd was on Wednesday. That should be apparent to anyone who watched.
You really wear stupid like a pro.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 09, 2021, 05:54:47 PM
(https://i2.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/elect5.jpg?w=462&ssl=1)
It took me a few moments of web searching to discover that the masthead was deliberately cut off to obscure the origin of that newspaper clip - a Louisiana newspaper; here’s the whole thing:
https://centralcitynews.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Central-City-News-11-19-20-Small.pdf (https://centralcitynews.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Central-City-News-11-19-20-Small.pdf)
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2021, 05:56:47 PM
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2021, 10:57:18 AM
More like who will be the next Hugo Chavez. That is the result you will get if you destroy this democracy.You mean like by committing widespread election fraud to turn the election in favor the socialist party candidate? That kind of destruction of a democracy?
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2021, 10:59:58 AM
More like Al Baghdadi who radicalizes the masses by convincing them that their world is slipping away from them and then giving them a group to blame. Trump has fed them lies and then encouraged them to march on the capital and to be strong to win. This is right out of the ISIS playbook and it works beautifully. I used to think that what happened in Germany under Hitler couldn't happen here. I was wrong. I used to think we were better than Islamist radicals because out people were more patriotic and had a much better standard of living. Again, I was wrong.Oh my God. The hyperbolic panty wetting by every democrat is fucking disgusting. This is not Hollywood, yet every democrat I know is creating a verbal fiction to soothe their nerves and with the hopes that a studio will pick their story.
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2021, 11:06:38 AM
Marches by black people are treated much more harshly than the white crowd was on Wednesday. That should be apparent to anyone who watched.You may have been sleeping for 9 months, but cities like Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, Seattle, Washington DC and others burned for days in BLM and Antifa riots, COMPLETELY UNIMPEDED by law enforcement who stood by and watched it happen, at the stand-down orders of mayors and.or governors.
You would be more credible if you didn’t lie, and weren’t so hyperbolic.
Post by: Number7 on January 10, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
You may have been sleeping for 9 months, but cities like Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, Seattle, Washington DC and others burned for days in BLM and Antifa riots, COMPLETELY UNIMPEDED by law enforcement who stood by and watched it happen, at the stand-down orders of mayors and.or governors.
You would be more credible if you didn’t lie, and weren’t so hyperbolic.
Lying is all she has,
Post by: Rush on January 10, 2021, 12:02:55 PM
You may have been sleeping for 9 months, but cities like Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, Seattle, Washington DC and others burned for days in BLM and Antifa riots, COMPLETELY UNIMPEDED by law enforcement who stood by and watched it happen, at the stand-down orders of mayors and.or governors.
You would be more credible if you didn’t lie, and weren’t so hyperbolic.
Look at all these “shocking” pictures of the violent insurrectionists storming the Capitol:
https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-55577824
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55568131
That’s the best the bbc could come up with.
Peaceful protesters standing around using cell phones. One guy stealing a lectern. Plus a bunch of terrified politicians who know goddamn well they stole the fucking election.
Oh, and the scary looking guy in face paint and Buffalo horns, that the FBI went after so hard? You know, like they DIDN’T go after election fraud? They arrested him and charged him with - brace yourself - “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”
They had to trump up the violent entry part, as this particular guy simply walked through the door. The “disorderly conduct” was standing in the Senate chamber.
He is what they would have you believe is a dangerous terrorist while BLM/Antifa burn down whole buildings and vehicles, attack innocent travelers, pull them out of cars and beat them, smash and loot businesses, beat old men in the street, drive through neighborhoods throwing fireworks in innocent peoples’ yards in the middle of the night, all summer long, all over the country.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/09/jake-angeli-capitol-rioter-in-horned-helmet-arrested-by-feds/
Post by: Number7 on January 10, 2021, 04:19:12 PM
Look at all these “shocking” pictures of the violent insurrectionists storming the Capitol:
https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-55577824
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55568131
That’s the best the bbc could come up with.
Peaceful protesters standing around using cell phones. One guy stealing a lectern. Plus a bunch of terrified politicians who know goddamn well they stole the fucking election.
Oh, and the scary looking guy in face paint and Buffalo horns, that the FBI went after so hard? You know, like they DIDN’T go after election fraud? They arrested him and charged him with - brace yourself - “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”
They had to trump up the violent entry part, as this particular guy simply walked through the door. The “disorderly conduct” was standing in the Senate chamber.
He is what they would have you believe is a dangerous terrorist while BLM/Antifa burn down whole buildings and vehicles, attack innocent travelers, pull them out of cars and beat them, smash and loot businesses, beat old men in the street, drive through neighborhoods throwing fireworks in innocent peoples’ yards in the middle of the night, all summer long, all over the country.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/09/jake-angeli-capitol-rioter-in-horned-helmet-arrested-by-feds/
I would have liked to believe that pilots would have more intelligence than to pretend such utter bulls hit fed to them by the biggest liars on earth, but leftist idiots come in all types.’how deeply disappointing.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 10, 2021, 04:23:35 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-clyburn-says-somebody-on-the-inside-of-capitol-was-complicit/?fbclid=IwAR3oCW6yQgvtn-kbDyhzckcfHFQNlKwWHhk4ulK3JopdUotyAErUz8y-v4M (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-clyburn-says-somebody-on-the-inside-of-capitol-was-complicit/?fbclid=IwAR3oCW6yQgvtn-kbDyhzckcfHFQNlKwWHhk4ulK3JopdUotyAErUz8y-v4M)
Quote
James Clyburn says "somebody on the inside" of Capitol was "complicit" in letting rioters inside the building
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:21:19 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:23:49 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:24:48 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:27:21 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:29:03 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:37:58 PM
https://mega.nz/folder/PgwzkDgT#HpdDx0nfULKPO1eUXS-edA
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 05:42:56 PM
(https://media.thedonald.win/post/YvrPUQzo.png)
Post by: Number7 on January 10, 2021, 05:45:42 PM
https://twitter.com/wokal_distance/status/1348343144648069121
logic kristen style....
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2021, 06:08:17 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 10, 2021, 06:47:09 PM
Post by: Rush on January 10, 2021, 07:04:10 PM
well.... look at it this way... the more the idiots are distracted by TDS and attempts to impeach President Trump, the less opportunity they have to really screw things up.
That’ll happen soon enough after the 20th.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 10, 2021, 07:39:02 PM
Quote
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard
Guess who said this Wednesday
Post by: Rush on January 10, 2021, 07:52:23 PM
Guess who said this Wednesday
Surely not Trump. I understand he said they should go over there and force themselves into the building and attempt a violent coup. The news said it so it must be true.
Post by: Number7 on January 10, 2021, 08:06:22 PM
Surely not Trump. I understand he said they should go over there and force themselves into the building and attempt a violent coup. The news said it so it must be true.
The lying, stupid, cunt kristen said so too.
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2021, 10:47:13 PM
Look at all these “shocking” pictures of the violent insurrectionists storming the Capitol:Shocking! And j trust the BBC more than any American news outlet at this point.
https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-55577824
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55568131
That’s the best the bbc could come up with.
Peaceful protesters standing around using cell phones. One guy stealing a lectern. Plus a bunch of terrified politicians who know goddamn well they stole the fucking election.
Oh, and the scary looking guy in face paint and Buffalo horns, that the FBI went after so hard? You know, like they DIDN’T go after election fraud? They arrested him and charged him with - brace yourself - “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”
They had to trump up the violent entry part, as this particular guy simply walked through the door. The “disorderly conduct” was standing in the Senate chamber.
He is what they would have you believe is a dangerous terrorist while BLM/Antifa burn down whole buildings and vehicles, attack innocent travelers, pull them out of cars and beat them, smash and loot businesses, beat old men in the street, drive through neighborhoods throwing fireworks in innocent peoples’ yards in the middle of the night, all summer long, all over the country.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/09/jake-angeli-capitol-rioter-in-horned-helmet-arrested-by-feds/
The level of brainwashing and hyperbole being consumed by the left is itself stunning.
Post by: Anthony on January 11, 2021, 03:30:14 AM
Shocking! And j trust the BBC more than any American news outlet at this point.
The level of brainwashing and hyperbole being consumed by the left is itself stunning.
The BBC is a known far left biased source. Even many Brits think that.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 11, 2021, 06:13:05 AM
Quote
Ex-Capitol Police Chief Says Pelosi, McConnell’s Sergeants-at-Arms Refused Security Measures While New Timeline Proves ‘Trump Incitement’ Claims Bogus.
Post by: Rush on January 11, 2021, 06:34:16 AM
https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/ex-capitol-police-chief-says-pelosi-mcconnells-sergeants-at-arms-refused-security-measures-while-new-timeline-proves-trump-incitement-claims-bogus/?fbclid=IwAR2lO6J4lNW3FWi3RgpvDDz5kEMgsS2C1duwvumoIUepHt7fpNqVA0cgKd8
Do any of you know what the crowd size was? I can’t find any estimates anywhere. Just vagaries like “thousands” and “larger than expected”.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 11, 2021, 06:35:24 AM
Do any of you know what the crowd size was? I can’t find any estimates anywhere. Just vagaries like “thousands” and “larger than expected”.Pictures I've seen, I would say 100's of thousands.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 11, 2021, 06:36:06 AM
Post by: Lucifer on January 11, 2021, 06:36:34 AM
Do any of you know what the crowd size was? I can’t find any estimates anywhere. Just vagaries like “thousands” and “larger than expected”.
One number I saw was 500,000 FWIW.
Post by: nddons on January 12, 2021, 07:14:38 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 13, 2021, 05:07:47 PM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/ex-federal-judge-slams-unconstitutional-democratic-plan-to-impeach-trump-after-he-leaves-office
Quote
Once Trump’s term ends on Jan. 20, Congress loses its constitutional authority to continue impeachment proceedings against him — even if the House has already approved articles of impeachment.
Therefore, if the House of Representatives were to impeach the president before he leaves office, the Senate could not thereafter convict the former president and disqualify him under the Constitution from future public office.
The reason for this is found in the Constitution itself. Trump would no longer be incumbent in the Office of the President at the time of the delayed Senate proceeding and would no longer be subject to “impeachment conviction” by the Senate, under the Constitution’s Impeachment Clauses. Which is to say that the Senate’s only power under the Constitution is to convict — or not — an incumbent president.
Post by: Number7 on January 13, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Post by: bflynn on January 13, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
Since when does the constitution ever inhibit the fucking democrat communists?
It doesn’t. It never has. It never should.
They have as much of a right to speak. You cannot complain merely because they are kicking your ass at it.
Post by: Number7 on January 14, 2021, 04:55:25 AM
It doesn’t. It never has. It never should.
They have as much of a right to speak. You cannot complain merely because they are kicking your ass at it.
Stupid suits you so well.
The US Constitution is not intended to only apply when it's convenient.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 14, 2021, 06:01:48 AM
It doesn’t. It never has. It never should.
um, careful. You just said US Constitution doesn't inhibit the democrats, it never has, and it never should.
I hope you forgot the green font.
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 06:03:44 AM
Stupid suits you so well.
The US Constitution is not intended to only apply when it's convenient.
For a document you claim to revere so deeply, you should spend more time with it.
Point to where it says a president cannot be convicted after leaving office. I’ll save you time, it isn’t there. Therefore the Constitution not only does not restrain the Democrats from trying him, it shouldn’t because there is nothing there. The only restriction is impeachment by the House, which has happened.
It’s true that he cannot be removed from office anymore, but are you not remembering the second clause which prohibits Trump from holding office or receiving honors.
I know that one has to sting, but if it’s consolation, it’s unlikely Democrats can bring any proof that Trump caused the riot...because he didn’t. When it comes down to it, Republicans will do well to draw out the proceedings as long as possible because Democrats are going to look worse and worse as it goes along.
They have been emotional, like you have been. You may believe me to be stupid, but I will never reach your level of stupid without significant help.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 14, 2021, 06:08:00 AM
Post by: nddons on January 14, 2021, 06:17:38 AM
For a document you claim to revere so deeply, you should spend more time with it.You cannot be this dense. I’ve read the Constitution. Impeachment is a “Remedy,” not a criminal conviction in the legal sense, and in this case reserved for the President of the United States.
Point to where it says a president cannot be convicted after leaving office. I’ll save you time, it isn’t there. Therefore the Constitution not only does not restrain the Democrats from trying him, it shouldn’t because there is nothing there. The only restriction is impeachment by the House, which has happened.
It’s true that he cannot be removed from office anymore, but are you not remembering the second clause which prohibits Trump from holding office or receiving honors.
I know that one has to sting, but if it’s consolation, it’s unlikely Democrats can bring any proof that Trump caused the riot...because he didn’t. When it comes down to it, Republicans will do well to draw out the proceedings as long as possible because Democrats are going to look worse and worse as it goes along.
They have been emotional, like you have been. You may believe me to be stupid, but I will never reach your level of stupid without significant help.
Trump ceases being President of the United States at Noon on January 2021. He is a private citizen after that moment, and private citizens cannot be impeached.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 14, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
You cannot be this dense. I’ve read the Constitution. Impeachment is a “Remedy,” not a criminal conviction in the legal sense, and in this case reserved for the President of the United States.
Trump ceases being President of the United States at Noon on January 2021. He is a private citizen after that moment, and private citizens cannot be impeached.
You’re correct except that impeachment covers more than the president:
“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
As to punishment:
“The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”
Post by: nddons on January 14, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
You’re correct except that impeachment covers more than the president:Yes, I know others can be impeached. The point I was making, obviously inarticulately, is that once the POTUS is no longer POTUS, the Constitutional remedy of Impeachment is null and void. A former president is a private citizen, and a private citizen cannot be impeached.
“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
As to punishment:
“The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”
Post by: nudnik on January 14, 2021, 12:25:23 PM
I know that one has to sting, but if it’s consolation, it’s unlikely Democrats can bring any proof that Trump caused the riot...because he didn’t. When it comes down to it, Republicans will do well to draw out the proceedings as long as possible because Democrats are going to look worse and worse as it goes along.
That's not going to matter.
What will matter is, when this comes up in let's say 100 days, if it's politically more convenient for the Republicans to have Trump be part of the Republican party, which brings in millions but runs the risk of him breaking up the party and forming let's say a MAGA party, or whether it's better for the GOP if he can't run again at all, which will lose some followers but have no risk of breaking up the party.
I suppose it's McConnell's call.
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 01:02:45 PM
That's not going to matter.
I think you meant “that’s not going to matter to Democrats”. They will vote against Trump not matter what the charge. They have shown that before and their temper tantrums after the last impeachment vote amounted to “how dare you not vote against him, he’s a bad man”.
Republicans will actually consider the evidence, of which there is precious little. As far as I know, Trump never told anyone to storm the capital, he never told anyone to be violent. They came up with that on their own.
This whole thing is the government being used as a political club.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 14, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Post by: Little Joe on January 14, 2021, 01:21:56 PM
You liked your own post?I didn't know you could even do that, so I just tested it. You CAN "like" your own posts. Heck, I like more than half of mine.
Post by: Lucifer on January 14, 2021, 02:33:50 PM
You liked your own post?
Goes with the personality........ ::)
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 04:56:25 PM
I believe Constitutional Scholars feel the Impeachment process includes the trial and thus is not Constitutional. If he chooses to run again, this will end up in the Supreme Court.
I missed this the first time. This is entirely incorrect. The power of impeachment lies with the House and the power of trial lies with the Senate and the two are separate. There have been others who have been impeached, then left office and the Senate held a trial. In fact Belknap was impeached AFTER he left office.
The impeachment is over, impeachment means the charge or the accusation. That’s why we say “there are three presidents who have been impeached”, despite none of them having been removed.
The power of the trial by the Senate is not Constitutionally constrained by time. Therefore it would fall back to the Senate to decide its own rules, but precedence from Belknap says they can still hold a trial.
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 05:01:15 PM
You cannot be this dense. I’ve read the Constitution. Impeachment is a “Remedy,” not a criminal conviction in the legal sense, and in this case reserved for the President of the United States.
Trump ceases being President of the United States at Noon on January 2021. He is a private citizen after that moment, and private citizens cannot be impeached.
Where did I use the word criminal? Impeachment and trial determines someone staying in office and/or being disqualified from hold further office. Coincidental to the trial, it is possible for criminal charges to be filed, but that has nothing to do with the Congressional process.
Trump has already been impeached. Read the Constitution, the section on the Senate trial. Do not insert words that are not there. Where does it restrict the senate trial?
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 05:02:03 PM
You liked your own post?
Fat fingers, little screen
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 14, 2021, 05:05:28 PM
Fat fingers, little screen
no worries... I just thought it was funny. I wasn't being snarky or snide (shock!)
Post by: nddons on January 14, 2021, 05:33:12 PM
Where did I use the word criminal? Impeachment and trial determines someone staying in office and/or being disqualified from hold further office. Coincidental to the trial, it is possible for criminal charges to be filed, but that has nothing to do with the Congressional process.You didn’t use criminal; I did to make the distinction.
Trump has already been impeached. Read the Constitution, the section on the Senate trial. Do not insert words that are not there. Where does it restrict the senate trial?
I don’t need to insert any words at all.
In addition to impeachment language in Article I, Article II Section 4 says:
“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
The operative term is “The President”, and the required action is “Conviction.” At noon on January 20th, Donald J. Trump will not be President. The Senate can convict the President, but can’t convict a private citizen. End of story.
Post by: nudnik on January 14, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Republicans will actually consider the evidence, of which there is precious little. As far as I know, Trump never told anyone to storm the capital, he never told anyone to be violent. They came up with that on their own.
This whole thing is the government being used as a political club.
If McConnell decides it's better to have Trump in the party, then he'll ignore all evidence.
If he decides he doesn't want Trump, then he'll look for evidence.
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 06:17:00 PM
If McConnell decides it's better to have Trump in the party, then he'll ignore all evidence.
If he decides he doesn't want Trump, then he'll look for evidence.
By the time the Senate is back in session, it won’t be his call anymore. However, despite the relatively small number of borderline Senators , Democrats still need to get 17 to agree and given the lack of evidence, that is unlikely to happen.
I’ve got a good prediction record, but I might be off. Until about three months ago I would have said that conservatives were the thinking people and the left were the feeling people. But wow how three months have turned the emotions around.
Post by: bflynn on January 14, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
In addition to impeachment language in Article I, Article II Section 4 says:
“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
The operative term is “The President”, and the required action is “Conviction.” At noon on January 20th, Donald J. Trump will not be President. The Senate can convict the President, but can’t convict a private citizen. End of story.
It’s only the end of the story if that’s where you quit reading. You obviously missed article 1, section 3 ( clause 7)
Quote
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Your quote says what must happen to the president, but it does not inherently limit conviction of impeachable offenses to the office. Read your quote to say “if they are convicted, they must be removed from office.” The second section says, they may also be prevented from holding office or receiving honors.
The best explanation is at https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/49-judgment-removal-and-disqualification.html. Both Article I and Article II are discussed here.
In practice, the Senate has determined that disqualification from holding office only requires a simple majority, so it is extremely likely Any vote to confirm the impeachment will fail, but he will still be disqualified for 2024.
Democrats are not working to calm the country.
Post by: nddons on January 15, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
It’s only the end of the story if that’s where you quit reading. You obviously missed article 1, section 3 ( clause 7)I didn’t quit reading you fucktard. You quoted my own quote where I said “IN ADDITION TO THE LANGUAGE IN ARTICLE I...” Such a childish way to debate.
Your quote says what must happen to the president, but it does not inherently limit conviction of impeachable offenses to the office. Read your quote to say “if they are convicted, they must be removed from office.” The second section says, they may also be prevented from holding office or receiving honors.
The best explanation is at https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/49-judgment-removal-and-disqualification.html. Both Article I and Article II are discussed here.
In practice, the Senate has determined that disqualification from holding office only requires a simple majority, so it is extremely likely Any vote to confirm the impeachment will fail, but he will still be disqualified for 2024.
Democrats are not working to calm the country.
And again you willingly fail to address the issue that Trump will be a private citizen when the Senate meets, and both article I and article II have as a condition precedent that the PRESIDENT is the one to be impeached and convicted. He will no longer be president.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 15, 2021, 10:38:14 AM
And again you willingly fail to address the issue that Trump will be a private citizen when the Senate meets, and both article I and article II have as a condition precedent that the PRESIDENT is the one to be impeached and convicted. He will no longer be president.
The wording in the constitution does seem to make being current president a necessary pre-condition. Particularly since the main penalty or objective is removal from office. However, congress is not a judicial body but a political body. So anything goes that they can get away with.
While there was a case where someone resigned after their House impeachment but before Senate judgement. The Senate still tried the case because the rationale for moving forward was that the purpose of the resignation was simply to avoid the trial. Such rationale does not apply to Trump. Also, in that one case I believe the person was not convicted by the Senate, so a situation never arose where he might have wanted to dispute the result by, for example, running for office.
Post by: nddons on January 15, 2021, 11:21:40 AM
The wording in the constitution does seem to make being current president a necessary pre-condition. Particularly since the main penalty or objective is removal from office. However, congress is not a judicial body but a political body. So anything goes that they can get away with.Alan Dershowitz agrees with me, despite what Counsellor bflynn thinks.
While there was a case where someone resigned after their House impeachment but before Senate judgement. The Senate still tried the case because the rationale for moving forward was that the purpose of the resignation was simply to avoid the trial. Such rationale does not apply to Trump. Also, in that one case I believe the person was not convicted by the Senate, so a situation never arose where he might have wanted to dispute the result by, for example, running for office.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2021/01/11/dershowitz-on-impeachment-n2582918
Post by: Little Joe on January 15, 2021, 01:43:07 PM
He was saying that you can only impeach a sitting president, and that after Jan 20, Trump will be a private citizen. You can't impeach a private citizen.
But Trump has already been impeached, by the House. Now it is up to the senate to conduct a trial and convict or not. Does the fact that he was impeached while he was a citizen play into this? So far it seems like in spite of all logic and law, the question always seems to be resolved against Trump.
Post by: bflynn on January 15, 2021, 03:30:49 PM
I didn’t quit reading you fucktard. You quoted my own quote where I said “IN ADDITION TO THE LANGUAGE IN ARTICLE I...” Such a childish way to debate.
And again you willingly fail to address the issue that Trump will be a private citizen when the Senate meets, and both article I and article II have as a condition precedent that the PRESIDENT is the one to be impeached and convicted. He will no longer be president.
I did not fail to address your concern about him being out of office. I pointed out that you’re wrong. You’ve based it on an incorrect reading and you applied meaning the words do not support.
Constitutional scholars do not support your idea either. I posted the justica link which shows that not only can they have the trial for someone who is no longer an officer, but also that Senate precedent requires 2/3 to remove from office (meaningless) but only half to disqualify from office.
If you choose not to listen to what I showed, that’s on you. You should not be shocked when it happens.
Post by: bflynn on January 15, 2021, 03:34:26 PM
The wording in the constitution does seem to make being current president a necessary pre-condition. Particularly since the main penalty or objective is removal from office. However, congress is not a judicial body but a political body. So anything goes that they can get away with.
While there was a case where someone resigned after their House impeachment but before Senate judgement. The Senate still tried the case because the rationale for moving forward was that the purpose of the resignation was simply to avoid the trial. Such rationale does not apply to Trump. Also, in that one case I believe the person was not convicted by the Senate, so a situation never arose where he might have wanted to dispute the result by, for example, running for office.
It doesn’t really say it that way and it’s isn’t that way in precedent either. People have not only been tried after leaving office, one person has been impeached after resigning.
People are grasping at straws here.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 15, 2021, 06:05:50 PM
It doesn’t really say it that way and it’s isn’t that way in precedent either. People have not only been tried after leaving office, one person has been impeached after resigning.
People are grasping at straws here.
I was well aware of the 1876 case involving Secretary of War William Belknap when I made my post. In that case Belknap allegedly raced to the White House to hand in his resignation. He was still impeached and tried in Senate but was not convicted. But according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._Belknap#House_corruption_investigation,_resignation_and_impeachment_(1876) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._Belknap#House_corruption_investigation,_resignation_and_impeachment_(1876)):
“Speaker of the House Michael C. Kerr wrote to the Senate that Belknap resigned "with intent to evade the proceedings of impeachment against him."
...
With 40 votes needed for conviction, the Senate voted 35 to 25 to convict Belknap, with one Senator not voting, thus acquitting Belknap of all charges by failing to reach the required two-thirds majority.[3][89][91] All Senators agreed that Belknap took the money from Marsh, but 23 who voted for acquittal believed that the Senate did not have jurisdiction.“
The facts of the situations differ.
But if the Senate does go through with proceedings after Trump leaves office, everything I’ve read indicates they must first convict before a vote on barring him from future office. Senate Republicans will not vote to convict (unless they don’t mind losing most of their party base.)
Post by: bflynn on January 15, 2021, 06:19:26 PM
I was well aware of the 1876 case involving Secretary of War William Belknap when I made my post. In that case Belknap allegedly raced to the White House to hand in his resignation. He was still impeached and tried in Senate but was not convicted. But according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._Belknap#House_corruption_investigation,_resignation_and_impeachment_(1876) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._Belknap#House_corruption_investigation,_resignation_and_impeachment_(1876)):
“Speaker of the House Michael C. Kerr wrote to the Senate that Belknap resigned "with intent to evade the proceedings of impeachment against him."
...
With 40 votes needed for conviction, the Senate voted 35 to 25 to convict Belknap, with one Senator not voting, thus acquitting Belknap of all charges by failing to reach the required two-thirds majority.[3][89][91] All Senators agreed that Belknap took the money from Marsh, but 23 who voted for acquittal believed that the Senate did not have jurisdiction.“
The facts of the situations differ.
But if the Senate does go through with proceedings after Trump leaves office, everything I’ve read indicates they must first convict before a vote on barring him from future office. Senate Republicans will not vote to convict (unless they don’t mind losing most of their party base.)
So you agree there is precedent and the Senators decide if they have jurisdiction because the Senate makes all of its own rules. The Supreme Court cannot override this.
After the new California Senator is sworn in and the Georgia Senators take their seats, 50 Senators will vote that they have jurisdiction and at least 50 will vote to disqualify Trump. They won’t reach 2/3, but removal will be moot at that point.
Weird, but Trump’s only hope is that something happens to knock the number of Democrat Senators down to 49.
Post by: Lucifer on January 15, 2021, 06:51:05 PM
Senate Republicans will not vote to convict (unless they don’t mind losing most of their party base.)
This.
To add, dims have now turned impeachment into a cheap political stunt to smear someone. And what goes around, comes around.
Post by: nddons on January 15, 2021, 07:57:55 PM
So you agree there is precedent and the Senators decide if they have jurisdiction because the Senate makes all of its own rules. The Supreme Court cannot override this.Senate rules may allow themselves to conduct an unconstitutional action, and the Supreme
After the new California Senator is sworn in and the Georgia Senators take their seats, 50 Senators will vote that they have jurisdiction and at least 50 will vote to disqualify Trump. They won’t reach 2/3, but removal will be moot at that point.
Weird, but Trump’s only hope is that something happens to knock the number of Democrat Senators down to 49.
Court will not interfere in an intra-body dispute. Nevertheless, as Alan Dershowitz concurs, “Convicting” a private citizen of impeachable offenses is null and void as such section is not sanctioned by the Constitution.
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 11:56:02 AM
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 11:57:16 AM
You mean like by committing widespread election fraud to turn the election in favor the socialist party candidate? That kind of destruction of a democracy?
Given the premise is false, the question lacks meaning.
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:02:39 PM
You may have been sleeping for 9 months, but cities like Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, Seattle, Washington DC and others burned for days in BLM and Antifa riots, COMPLETELY UNIMPEDED by law enforcement who stood by and watched it happen, at the stand-down orders of mayors and.or governors.
You would be more credible if you didn’t lie, and weren’t so hyperbolic.
I live outside Minneapolis and watched it. The cities were slow, and tried to be more gentle than the feds. Right or wrong! After awhile, the police got much rougher here.
But the feds clearly were harsher to BLM protesters that than white crazies in the Capital building. Again, I watched. I watched the beating and tear gas to clear a way for Trump to make a photo op. I watched the feds in Portland dragging protesters into vans. You can deny the obvious all you want. Freedom of religion is still protected.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 16, 2021, 12:08:32 PM
You can deny the obvious all you want.
you are living proof
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:09:02 PM
For a document you claim to revere so deeply, you should spend more time with it.
Point to where it says a president cannot be convicted after leaving office. I’ll save you time, it isn’t there. Therefore the Constitution not only does not restrain the Democrats from trying him, it shouldn’t because there is nothing there. The only restriction is impeachment by the House, which has happened.
It’s true that he cannot be removed from office anymore, but are you not remembering the second clause which prohibits Trump from holding office or receiving honors.
I know that one has to sting, but if it’s consolation, it’s unlikely Democrats can bring any proof that Trump caused the riot...because he didn’t. When it comes down to it, Republicans will do well to draw out the proceedings as long as possible because Democrats are going to look worse and worse as it goes along.
They have been emotional, like you have been. You may believe me to be stupid, but I will never reach your level of stupid without significant help.
What he knows about the Constitution that is actually correct could be written on the head of a pin with a paint brush.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 16, 2021, 12:14:42 PM
What! You mean that liars who support the Liar-in-Chief unquestioning would lie? Shocked! Shocked I am!
All hail the new gentler liar-in-chief! 48 years of practice!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 16, 2021, 12:18:56 PM
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
You didn’t use criminal; I did to make the distinction.
I don’t need to insert any words at all.
In addition to impeachment language in Article I, Article II Section 4 says:
“The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
The operative term is “The President”, and the required action is “Conviction.” At noon on January 20th, Donald J. Trump will not be President. The Senate can convict the President, but can’t convict a private citizen. End of story.
You are reading it incorrectly. It says that removal requires impeachment and conviction. It says nothing about about a time limit on the trial. As there are other ramifications to being impeached and convicted, other than removal from office, the only logical interpretation is that the trial can happen after the perp has left office. One has to read the Constitution as a whole, and not just cherry pick parts of it. SCOTUS will do the former and very likely let Congress do as it will do with Trump.
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
By the time the Senate is back in session, it won’t be his call anymore. However, despite the relatively small number of borderline Senators , Democrats still need to get 17 to agree and given the lack of evidence, that is unlikely to happen.
I’ve got a good prediction record, but I might be off. Until about three months ago I would have said that conservatives were the thinking people and the left were the feeling people. But wow how three months have turned the emotions around.
I used to wince at the Dems dragging the homeless to the polls to get them to vote, figuring they were too ignorant to properly exercise the franchise. Now I realize that the ignorance is too widespread on both camps so what the hell. As long as they are citizens and of age, they can vote.
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:33:08 PM
I didn’t quit reading you fucktard. You quoted my own quote where I said “IN ADDITION TO THE LANGUAGE IN ARTICLE I...” Such a childish way to debate.
Thank you for the demonstration of what it means to be childish and debate in a childish way. You have it down pat!
Post by: Kristin on January 16, 2021, 12:38:23 PM
Senate rules may allow themselves to conduct an unconstitutional action, and the Supreme
Court will not interfere in an intra-body dispute. Nevertheless, as Alan Dershowitz concurs, “Convicting” a private citizen of impeachable offenses is null and void as such section is not sanctioned by the Constitution.
So if SCOTUS isn't going to get involved, who is going to rule it "null and void"?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 16, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
You are reading it incorrectly. It says that removal requires impeachment and conviction. It says nothing about about a time limit on the trial. As there are other ramifications to being impeached and convicted, other than removal from office, the only logical interpretation is that the trial can happen after the perp has left office. One has to read the Constitution as a whole, and not just cherry pick parts of it. SCOTUS will do the former and very likely let Congress do as it will do with Trump.How do you remove someone from an office they don't hold?
Post by: Little Joe on January 16, 2021, 12:56:33 PM
But the feds clearly were harsher to BLM protesters that than white crazies in the Capital building. Again, I watched. I watched the beating and tear gas to clear a way for Trump to make a photo op. I watched the feds in Portland dragging protesters into vans. You can deny the obvious all you want. Freedom of religion is still protected.If the Feds were easier on the "white crazies" it was only because they were taken by surprise. Nobody expects white people to riot.
But they sure are going after them after the fact much harder than they did for the summer rioters. And the preparation against the "white crazies" for the inauguration is significantly larger than any for the summer rioters and looters.
But actually, I'm not faulting blacks for the summer rioting. They probably felt just as, if not more, justified than the capitol rioters. What I do object to is all the lives they took and all the property they destroyed. What good did it do to kill all those other black people and destroy all those black owned businesses. If I were them, I would have gone after "whitey". Not other innocent blacks.
That's what I think.
Post by: Number7 on January 16, 2021, 02:44:33 PM
The black on black violence, arson, looting and murder is and was inconvenient for democrat communists (there I go repeating myself) and therefore it is racist to point it out.
Democrats are pussies and can’t help themselves, which is why the country is so ducked as the liar in chief and his cabinet of thieves take over.
Post by: Anthony on January 16, 2021, 04:55:26 PM
If the Feds were easier on the "white crazies" it was only because they were taken by surprise. Nobody expects white people to riot.
But they sure are going after them after the fact much harder than they did for the summer rioters. And the preparation against the "white crazies" for the inauguration is significantly larger than any for the summer rioters and looters.
But actually, I'm not faulting blacks for the summer rioting. They probably felt just as, if not more, justified than the capitol rioters. What I do object to is all the lives they took and all the property they destroyed. What good did it do to kill all those other black people and destroy all those black owned businesses. If I were them, I would have gone after "whitey". Not other innocent blacks.
That's what I think.
Maybe the Whitey they go after will be YOU next time. That ok?
I don't support black on black murder but if they come after me or others, thats even worse.
Post by: nddons on January 17, 2021, 10:19:00 AM
You are reading it incorrectly. It says that removal requires impeachment and conviction. It says nothing about about a time limit on the trial. As there are other ramifications to being impeached and convicted, other than removal from office, the only logical interpretation is that the trial can happen after the perp has left office. One has to read the Constitution as a whole, and not just cherry pick parts of it. SCOTUS will do the former and very likely let Congress do as it will do with Trump.Try to keep up, and let me know where in the Constitution is says that Congress can impeach a private citizen or former president. I’ll wait for your answer.
Oh, and let Alan Dershowitz in on your way of reading the Constitution. Obviously he doesn’t possess your legal bona fides either.
Post by: nddons on January 17, 2021, 10:36:10 AM
Given the premise is false, the question lacks meaning.False because CNN declared it so? The courts have almost in universally punted and did not examine the facts. That happened in PA, and it happened in Wisconsin, where Justice Hagedorn said that the Trump campaign should have challenged irregularities before the election, and presumably before they occurred, but because they challenged it after the election, they were too late to overturn the vote, so they elected not to address any claims brought forth.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 17, 2021, 10:47:46 AM
False because CNN declared it so? The courts have almost in universally punted and did not examine the facts. That happened in PA, and it happened in Wisconsin, where Justice Hagedorn said that the Trump campaign should have challenged irregularities before the election, and presumably before they occurred, but because they challenged it after the election, they were too late to overturn the vote, so they elected not to address any claims brought forth.Well that makes sense :o I guess that would be a pre-cog lawsuit ;)
Post by: Number7 on January 17, 2021, 12:36:00 PM
Well that makes sense :o I guess that would be a pre-cog lawsuit ;)
Kristen is a troll and as such needs to be ignored.
Post by: Kristin on January 17, 2021, 01:44:38 PM
How do you remove someone from an office they don't hold?
You bar them from holding office in the future.
Post by: Kristin on January 17, 2021, 01:52:22 PM
If the Feds were easier on the "white crazies" it was only because they were taken by surprise. Nobody expects white people to riot.
But they sure are going after them after the fact much harder than they did for the summer rioters. And the preparation against the "white crazies" for the inauguration is significantly larger than any for the summer rioters and looters.
But actually, I'm not faulting blacks for the summer rioting. They probably felt just as, if not more, justified than the capitol rioters. What I do object to is all the lives they took and all the property they destroyed. What good did it do to kill all those other black people and destroy all those black owned businesses. If I were them, I would have gone after "whitey". Not other innocent blacks.
That's what I think.
Actually, I agree with much of that. At least here in MN, I don't think they were expecting the violence that they got either. Law enforcement has been going after the rioters in MN that they can identify. One prominent arsonist turned out to be a right-winger, Boogaloo, IIRC. However, there were plenty of anarchists and just plain looters.
I think that one of the reasons that so many of the capitol rioters have been arrested as so many were streaming and videoing what they did and bragging about it. There are also a lot more surveillance cameras in DC than there were on Lake Street in MSP.
I do think that there is a substantial difference between looting a Target and seeking to prevent the certification of Biden's election by occupying the capital.
Post by: Kristin on January 17, 2021, 02:06:37 PM
Try to keep up, and let me know where in the Constitution is says that Congress can impeach a private citizen or former president. I’ll wait for your answer.
Oh, and let Alan Dershowitz in on your way of reading the Constitution. Obviously he doesn’t possess your legal bona fides either.
First of all, Trump as already been impeached and he is still in office.
Your problem is that you think that the Constitution is a body of laws. It is principles and prohibitions. You also seem to think that Dershowitz, one of Trump's lawyers, is actually a neutral voice. Regardless of what he believes, he has to advocate for Trump's position.
Lets look at Article I, Section 3, Clause 7: "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."
This makes clear that there are two potential punishments for being convicted following impeachment. The second is still in play, and just because Trump is out of office, preventing a trial would thwart this part of the Constitution. Admittedly, trial after leaving office might be considered to be in the gray area -- like a lot of other things about the Constitution -- but there are only nine votes that count on that question. Do you want to bet on how the SCOTUS will vote on that?
Post by: Kristin on January 17, 2021, 02:14:57 PM
False because CNN declared it so? The courts have almost in universally punted and did not examine the facts. That happened in PA, and it happened in Wisconsin, where Justice Hagedorn said that the Trump campaign should have challenged irregularities before the election, and presumably before they occurred, but because they challenged it after the election, they were too late to overturn the vote, so they elected not to address any claims brought forth.
Trump's lawsuits largely challenged procedure and did not actually allege fraud. To allege fraud, a plaintiff much plead with specificity the who, what, where, and how. IOW, it requires names dates and places. At least in PA, no suit was filed that alleged fraud. Likely the attorneys could not do so because they didn't have facts to back it up. An affidavit from someone who says that they saw something fishy looking isn't going to get it. So at least in PA, all the complaints were claims that the process was incorrect. When that is the only argument made, then affidavits that may relate to fraud are irrelevant.
It was patently clear that the only reason Trump is complaining about the process after the election, and only in the districts which had heavy Democrat turnout is because he lost. It is even more damning that none of the Congress critters who won with that same, allegedly defective process, were suggesting that their wins should be overturned.
This whole stolen election BS is a massive lie on the scale of the one the German's told to themselves after WWI, namely that they didn't really lose the war.
Post by: Kristin on January 17, 2021, 02:16:47 PM
Kristen is a troll and as such needs to be ignored.
Except that you can't help yourself. You anger and misogyny forces to pay attention. I have to stick around in hopes that your angst eventually causes you to burst a blood vessel some place fatal.
Post by: Number7 on January 17, 2021, 02:17:38 PM
Except that you can't help yourself. You anger and misogyny forces to pay attention. I have to stick around in hopes that your angst eventually causes you to burst a blood vessel some place fatal.
Begs one pathetic troll...
Post by: Little Joe on January 17, 2021, 02:17:46 PM
You bar them from holding office in the future.Isn't that what elections are for?
Post by: Lucifer on January 17, 2021, 03:15:58 PM
I do think that there is a substantial difference between looting a Target and seeking to prevent the certification of Biden's election by occupying the capital.
Tell that to Target, or the many small businesses that owners had their entire livelihoods tied up in.
Post by: Lucifer on January 17, 2021, 03:18:27 PM
Except that you can't help yourself. You anger and misogyny forces to pay attention. I have to stick around in hopes that your angst eventually causes you to burst a blood vessel some place fatal.
Wow, wishing death upon someone you disagree?
Many here have disagreements with others, but no one until you have come in here wishing death on someone.
Post by: Little Joe on January 17, 2021, 03:38:28 PM
Even if I agreed with that, I have a bigger problem with the fact that they killed so many other blacks and destroyed so many black-owned businesses, in the name of "Black lives matter".
I do think that there is a substantial difference between looting a Target and seeking to prevent the certification of Biden's election by occupying the capital.
Yes, Black lives do matter. So why do blacks kill so many other blacks?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 17, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
wait, what was I thinking... some people do understand the distinction but refuse to acknowledge it.
Post by: Number7 on January 17, 2021, 08:26:25 PM
Wow, wishing death upon someone you disagree?
Many here have disagreements with others, but no one until you have come in here wishing death on someone.
She's a fucking troll. Ignore her.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 06:45:13 AM
She's a fucking troll. Ignore her.
Even trolling that is unacceptable behavior. It's psychotic.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 09:10:30 AM
Isn't that what elections are for?
That too, but it is in the Constitution that impeachment and conviction serves two purposes.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 09:13:08 AM
Wow, wishing death upon someone you disagree?
Many here have disagreements with others, but no one until you have come in here wishing death on someone.
I don't know whether I agree or disagree with 7 as he never posts anything thoughtful. He just sprays his hate around.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 09:17:07 AM
Even if I agreed with that, I have a bigger problem with the fact that they killed so many other blacks and destroyed so many black-owned businesses, in the name of "Black lives matter".
Yes, Black lives do matter. So why do blacks kill so many other blacks?
I have a problem with that violence too. My point is that an attack on our republic is an attack on all.
I would disagree that the looting was done in the name of BLM, but rather anarchists and some right-wingers used the cover of the demonstrations to loot and burn. As for the larger question of why it is historically that blacks kill blacks at such a great rate, I can't answer but it is very troubling that they primarily destroy themselves when they profess to be mad at whites.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 09:20:11 AM
I wonder if people understand the difference between rioting (including destruction of property) and protesting election fraud.
wait, what was I thinking... some people do understand the distinction but refuse to acknowledge it.
Substantial election fraud is a religion, defined as a belief system without factual support.
Do you understand the difference between BLM protests and anarchists looting after dark? Breaking windows in the capital and beating police officers is not protesting.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 09:20:17 AM
This "this person might say something bad someday" banning is very very bad.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 09:37:11 AM
It follows the democrats' playbook. Don't like something, get it banned. Don't like the conversation, shut it down. Don't like someone, get them banned from even running from office. What is to stop the democrat house and senate from passing a law that bans someone from office? Really... It looks like X is running. Let's pass a law that prevents X from fundraising, from rallies (for the sake of democracy!), from holding office (for the sake of the children!). Let's get the banks to withhold loans or services from anyone who might cause trouble in the future (like they are doing now). Let's get the media platforms to ban anyone who might cause trouble in the future (like they are doing now).
This "this person might say something bad someday" banning is very very bad.
I won't ask you to show me in the Democrat's platform where it says to ban people from running that you don't like. It isn't there. But taking the broader view, cancel culture is more associated with people of the left wing persuasion, but you can see elements of it here, in this bastion of self-proclaimed conservatism. All you have to do is look at the responses my posts generate and you will find all the evidence of attempts to cancel that you might need.
As for the substance of your post, what keeps politicians from barring people with whom they disagree from running for office, it is the Constitution. The very same one that makes a narrow exception for impeachment which is limited to crimes and misdemeanors, not opposing policy choices.
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2021, 09:44:00 AM
Except that you can't help yourself. You anger and misogyny forces to pay attention. I have to stick around in hopes that your angst eventually causes you to burst a blood vessel some place fatal.Wow. Obviously a call for unity from a leftist, as long as unity means a conservative dying a terrible death. That’s low, even for you.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 09:51:45 AM
Wow, wishing death upon someone you disagree?
Many here have disagreements with others, but no one until you have come in here wishing death on someone.
Shrug. I took it to be a more specific variant of “Drop dead, creep.”
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 18, 2021, 09:53:54 AM
I have a problem with that violence too. My point is that an attack on our republic is an attack on all.What are you going to do when the real revolution begins?
I would disagree that the looting was done in the name of BLM, but rather anarchists and some right-wingers used the cover of the demonstrations to loot and burn. As for the larger question of why it is historically that blacks kill blacks at such a great rate, I can't answer but it is very troubling that they primarily destroy themselves when they profess to be mad at whites.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 09:55:02 AM
All you have to do is look at the responses my posts generate and you will find all the evidence of attempts to cancel that you might need.You are not canceled. You are free to post as much as you wish. There may be vigorous opposition to what you say, but you are not canceled. If that were the case, the illustrious moderators of this site would ban you and erase all threads that you participated in. Like PoA does. That is not the case here. But is very much the case where democrats ban all speech they disagree with. Or think they might disagree with in the future.
As for the substance of your post, what keeps politicians from barring people with whom they disagree from running for office, it is the Constitution. The very same one that makes a narrow exception for impeachment which is limited to crimes and misdemeanors, not opposing policy choices.Sure. Just call it a "preemptive impeachment". Why ban Trump from office? For something he might do in the future? Just drum up a charge against anyone who is running for office, say that they might do something bad someday, do the impeachment and ban them from office. Easy.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 18, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
::)
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 11:54:41 AM
I don't know whether I agree or disagree with 7 as he never posts anything thoughtful. He just sprays his hate around.
Doesn’t matter. That still is abhorrent behavior on your part.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
Shrug. I took it to be a more specific variant of “Drop dead, creep.”
Shrug it off all you want, it’s abhorrent and shows how mentally unstable someone is.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 12:20:41 PM
Shrug it off all you want, it’s abhorrent and shows how mentally unstable someone is.
Posts the man with a firing gun in his avatar.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 12:26:52 PM
Posts the man with a firing gun in his avatar.
It’s an avatar from a movie. ::)
And you can’t find one post where I wished death upon anyone. That’s the behavior of someone that is unhinged and is a sociopath.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 12:34:03 PM
Posts the man with a firing gun in his avatar.Firing a gun means someone is mentally unstable? Please, go on.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 12:46:00 PM
What are you going to do when the real revolution begins?
Who do you see revolting? What do you see these revolting people doing?
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 12:49:18 PM
You are not canceled. You are free to post as much as you wish. There may be vigorous opposition to what you say, but you are not canceled. If that were the case, the illustrious moderators of this site would ban you and erase all threads that you participated in. Like PoA does. That is not the case here. But is very much the case where democrats ban all speech they disagree with. Or think they might disagree with in the future.
So how do you define "canceling"? There are certainly folks here trying to intimidate me to leave.
Quote
Sure. Just call it a "preemptive impeachment". Why ban Trump from office? For something he might do in the future? Just drum up a charge against anyone who is running for office, say that they might do something bad someday, do the impeachment and ban them from office. Easy.
The Constitution did give it a name, but it is part of the Constitution. I take it you do not like this part of the Constitution.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 12:50:37 PM
Doesn’t matter. That still is abhorrent behavior on your part.
He gets what he gives. Obviously, you are a devotee of the double standard.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 12:52:30 PM
So how do you define "canceling"? There are certainly folks here trying to intimidate me to leave
That’s a lie. No one has ever been told to leave the forum. And in reading your post and replies no one has made that insinuation.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 12:53:41 PM
He gets what he gives. Obviously, you are a devotee of the double standard.
No, I’m calling out what is abhorrent behavior.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 01:08:23 PM
That’s a lie. No one has ever been told to leave the forum. And in reading your post and replies no one has made that insinuation.
You apparently don't even know what a lie is. Look it up. You are being willfully blind.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 01:09:34 PM
No, I’m calling out what is abhorrent behavior.
Your opinion, and given your history of posting, it is clear that you are very selective in what you consider abhorrent.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
You apparently don't even know what a lie is. Look it up. You are being willfully blind.
No. And I know what a lie is, and what a liar does.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 01:14:47 PM
Your opinion, and given your history of posting, it is clear that you are very selective in what you consider abhorrent.
You’re a master of projection. And you make feeble attempts of gaslighting.
You’re a sociopath and unhinged individual. Anything of value you attempt to add to the discussion is wiped out by your erratic behavior.
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2021, 01:23:09 PM
So how do you define "canceling"? There are certainly folks here trying to intimidate me to leave.
Oh please. Nice try playing the victim.
Conservatives are getting fired, posts deleted, statements silenced, book contracts terminated, networks threatened, advertisers threatened, radio stations threatened for having a conservative talk radio host, speaking engagements canceled, doxed, threatened in public, means of communications cut off, businesses and livelihoods threatened from both public threats and governmental threats including fines, loss of business licenses, etc. For decades the left wore “Coexist” bumper stickers. Now we see they never ever meant it.
Let’s all play adult now. There’s nothing funny about the assault on freedom and liberty.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 01:42:52 PM
The Constitution did give it a name, but it is part of the Constitution. I take it you do not like this part of the Constitution.Try again. If the Senate can hold an impeachment trial for private citizen Trump, the House can impeach private citizen Trump (or anyone else). They make their own rules.
Note the Constitution says only that: "The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." And they decide who impeachment applies to. Just make a new House rule.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 01:44:10 PM
Firing a gun means someone is mentally unstable? Please, go on.
I never claimed that at all. Please explain how you came to that conclusion.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
I never claimed that at all. Please explain how you came to that conclusion.I don't know how to do multi-quotes. But here:
Quote
Quote from: Lucifer on Today at 11:56:43 AMYou are implying that Lucifer's avatar of someone shooting a gun demonstrates that he is mentally unstable.
Shrug it off all you want, it’s abhorrent and shows how mentally unstable someone is.
Posts the man with a firing gun in his avatar.
Edit: OOH! 1000 posts. What do I win?
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 01:57:34 PM
I don't know how to do multi-quotes. But here:You are implying that Lucifer's avatar of someone shooting a gun demonstrates that he is mentally unstable.
Edit: OOH! 1000 posts. What do I win?
We’ll be sending you a gift catalog, just pick one under the “1000 post” column.
PS: The Rolex in the custom case is really nice. ;)
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
I don't know how to do multi-quotes. But here:You are implying that Lucifer's avatar of someone shooting a gun demonstrates that he is mentally unstable.Rookie!!
Edit: OOH! 1000 posts. What do I win?
Post by: Anthony on January 18, 2021, 04:26:12 PM
For decades the left wore “Coexist” bumper stickers. Now we see they never ever meant it.
Oh, they meant it alright. Coexist with only those that believe exactly what they do. Just like the Hate has No Home Here signs. You'll see hate instantly if you disagree with their Leftist, control freak oppression. Idiot hypocrites ALL.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I don't know how to do multi-quotes.
This forum software doesn't support it very well, but I just discovered there is a limited capability to multi-quote. When I started to reply to your post, I noticed the posts in the Topic Summary that appears beneath the editing text window have a "Insert Quote" button to their upper-right. Clicking on one will insert that post where the cursor is located in the text window. Unfortunately it only displays the last 15 posts in the thread.
Quote
But here:You are implying that Lucifer's avatar of someone shooting a gun demonstrates that he is mentally unstable.
You missed an important post of mine. The one where I liken Kristin's statement to "Drop dead, creep". Since I don't think Kristin is unstable I therefore I don't think Lucifer is either. I think they are both mostly harmless.
Quote
Edit: OOH! 1000 posts. What do I win?
GIFs of women shooting (Jane Russell in the first one - don't know who they are in the second.)
(https://i.gifer.com/5otK.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/F6a.gif)
Post by: Anthony on January 18, 2021, 05:15:47 PM
This forum software doesn't support it very well, but I just discovered there is a limited capability to multi-quote. When I started to reply to your post, I noticed the posts in the Topic Summary that appears beneath the editing text window have a "Insert Quote" button to their upper-right. Clicking on one will insert that post where the cursor is located in the text window. Unfortunately it only displays the last 15 posts in the thread.
You missed an important post of mine. The one where I liken Kristin's statement to "Drop dead, creep". Since I don't think Kristin is unstable I therefore I don't think Lucifer is either. I think they are both mostly harmless.
GIFs of women shooting (Jane Russell in the first one - don't know who they are in the second.)
(https://i.gifer.com/5otK.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/F6a.gif)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vw_8TFGe1gY/UgWVigaXc-I/AAAAAAAACbg/sYdjLy94UI8/s1600/facebook_-615531159.jpg)
(https://www.usacarry.com/forums/attachments/off-topic/14151d1426544549-lets-start-new-post-called-girls-guns-10298906_10152364743483905_5534484189596804213_n.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 05:18:57 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 05:25:55 PM
From the description it looks enticing, but damn it - it's age restricted and I just deleted my Youtube/Google account yesterday and don't feel like creating a new one so soon.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 05:26:37 PM
You missed an important post of mine. The one where I liken Kristin's statement to "Drop dead, creep". Since I don't think Kristin is unstable I therefore I don't think Lucifer is either. I think they are both mostly harmless.I went back and checked and you are quite right. I apologize. And thank you for the wonderful prizes! I can't wait to see what I get at 2500 posts!
GIFs of women shooting (Jane Russell in the first one - don't know who they are in the second.)
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 05:28:16 PM
From the description it looks enticing, but damn it - it's age restricted and I just deleted my Youtube/Google account yesterday and don't feel like creating a new one so soon.
screen shot
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F65MJB0rXId0%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 05:29:24 PM
I can't wait to see what I get at 2500 posts!
Like BMW's? :D
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 05:32:18 PM
From the description it looks enticing, but damn it - it's age restricted and I just deleted my Youtube/Google account yesterday and don't feel like creating a new one so soon.It's a physics demonstration on how to create standing waves.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
screen shot
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F65MJB0rXId0%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Thanks!
Post by: bflynn on January 18, 2021, 05:51:02 PM
So how do you define "canceling"? There are certainly folks here trying to intimidate me to leave.
While I don’t doubt some here don’t like it when you challenge them, I don’t believe anyone here is actively trying to get you to leave. If you do leave, that is entirely on you.
Regardless, this is nothing compared to the New McCarthyism that Democrats are endorsing. Their bias has risen to the level of discrimination. It is wrong, it is unAmerican, it is immoral.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:12:29 PM
You’re a master of projection. And you make feeble attempts of gaslighting.
You’re a sociopath and unhinged individual. Anything of value you attempt to add to the discussion is wiped out by your erratic behavior.
You and 7 would make a set of bookends.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Oh please. Nice try playing the victim.
So 7's attempts to get everyone to ignore me is not cancellation? How interesting.
Quote
Conservatives are getting fired, posts deleted, statements silenced, book contracts terminated, networks threatened, advertisers threatened, radio stations threatened for having a conservative talk radio host, speaking engagements canceled, doxed, threatened in public, means of communications cut off, businesses and livelihoods threatened from both public threats and governmental threats including fines, loss of business licenses, etc. For decades the left wore “Coexist” bumper stickers. Now we see they never ever meant it.
Let’s all play adult now. There’s nothing funny about the assault on freedom and liberty.
Do you have any specific examples of conservatives being fired, silenced, book deals cancelled for merely being conservative, separate from some fascist type behavior like trying to overturn the election and ransacking the capital?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 18, 2021, 06:19:19 PM
separate from some fascist type behavior like trying to overturn the electionWho are you referencing?
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:23:19 PM
Try again. If the Senate can hold an impeachment trial for private citizen Trump, the House can impeach private citizen Trump (or anyone else). They make their own rules.
Note the Constitution says only that: "The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." And they decide who impeachment applies to. Just make a new House rule.
What about Article I, Section 3 confuses you:
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States:
Focus on "shall not extend further". it is not too hard.
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2021, 06:25:09 PM
You and 7 would make a set of bookends.
Aren’t you lucky that stupidity isn’t painful?
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:28:23 PM
While I don’t doubt some here don’t like it when you challenge them, I don’t believe anyone here is actively trying to get you to leave. If you do leave, that is entirely on you.
Regardless, this is nothing compared to the New McCarthyism that Democrats are endorsing. Their bias has risen to the level of discrimination. It is wrong, it is unAmerican, it is immoral.
Can you explain what you see as the Dems New McCarthyism? I am not seeing anything outside basic politics as practiced by both parties.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:29:51 PM
Who are you referencing?
Cruz and Hawley are the two most foremost examples. The GOP has generally become the party of autocracy, IMV.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Aren’t you lucky that stupidity isn’t painful?
I will take your word for it, as you clearly would know.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 18, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
Cruz and Hawley are the two most foremost examples. The GOP has generally become the party of autocracy, IMV.They should not have been allowed to object to the electors?
What about all the members of the Black Caucus that object to Trump electors? I guess that was okay?
Post by: Anthony on January 18, 2021, 06:33:23 PM
Can you explain what you see as the Dems New McCarthyism? I am not seeing anything outside basic politics as practiced by both parties.
The Democrats and Media practice the Marxist Cancel Culture, Far Left, PC, SJW crap. It is the destruction of many of our Natural Rights that are protected by the Constitution.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on January 18, 2021, 06:35:11 PM
Oh, they meant it alright. Coexist with only those that believe exactly what they do. Just like the Hate has No Home Here signs. You'll see hate instantly if you disagree with their Leftist, control freak oppression. Idiot hypocrites ALL.
Coexist = Comply or Else
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:38:51 PM
They should not have been allowed to object to the electors?
What about all the members of the Black Caucus that object to Trump electors? I guess that was okay?
I am not in favor of any objecting to electors when there is no evidence of fraud or other shenanigans. However, the contexts were quite different. Clinton wasn't claiming, falsely, that the election was stolen or that there was fraud. Cruz, Hawley, and all the rest knew that there was no supportable challenge but they did it like any other craven politician for their own political profit.
Post by: Kristin on January 18, 2021, 06:40:17 PM
The Democrats and Media practice the Marxist Cancel Culture, Far Left, PC, SJW crap. It is the destruction of many of our Natural Rights that are protected by the Constitution.
Which natural rights that are protected by the Constitution has the media or the Dems destroyed?
Post by: Anthony on January 18, 2021, 06:54:00 PM
Which natural rights that are protected by the Constitution has the media or the Dems destroyed?
Free speech with the repercussions with Cancel Culture. Say something they don't like, you get FIRED from your job. They are trying to take gun rights away. Also restraint GATHERING IN GROUPS, TRADE and TRAVEL bankrupting many small businesses. Just to name a few off the top of my head. There are many more.
You're joking, right?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 18, 2021, 07:20:59 PM
I am not in favor of any objecting to electors when there is no evidence of fraud or other shenanigans. However, the contexts were quite different. Clinton wasn't claiming, falsely, that the election was stolen or that there was fraud. Cruz, Hawley, and all the rest knew that there was no supportable challenge but they did it like any other craven politician for their own political profit.Things are not over here in Georgia yet. There was a hearing last Friday concerning Fulton County not turning over ballots for analysis and ignoring open records requests.
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2021, 07:22:48 PM
So 7's attempts to get everyone to ignore me is not cancellation? How interesting.I’m not going to make a list of things o know you’ve seen and heard.
Do you have any specific examples of conservatives being fired, silenced, book deals cancelled for merely being conservative, separate from some fascist type behavior like trying to overturn the election and ransacking the capital?
Here’s a 12 second search about Josh Hawley’s book contract being canceled due to his objection to certification of the election - a valid, common occurrence in Congress.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/media/josh-hawley-book-canceled/index.html
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2021, 07:25:01 PM
The Democrats and Media practice the Marxist Cancel Culture, Far Left, PC, SJW crap. It is the destruction of many of our Natural Rights that are protected by the Constitution.She’s just trolling now. She knows exactly what the cancel culture is doing, and is enjoying every bit of it.
Post by: Username on January 18, 2021, 07:28:29 PM
She’s just trolling now. She knows exactly what the cancel culture is doing, and is enjoying every bit of it.Did you ever notice that Kristin and Stengar don't post at the same time?
Post by: Number7 on January 18, 2021, 08:04:01 PM
Did you ever notice that Kristin and Stengar don't post at the same time?
She's a cunt and he's a pussy.
Post by: bflynn on January 19, 2021, 10:40:41 AM
Can you explain what you see as the Dems New McCarthyism? I am not seeing anything outside basic politics as practiced by both parties.
If it has to be explained to you, it's probable that you cannot see it.
Democrats are suggesting that conservatives be cancelled. Anyone who supported Trump should be shut out of social media, fired from their jobs and deprogrammed. They are suggesting that Republican senators have committed an insurrection because they disagree and they need to be removed via the 14th Amendment (not tried, convicted and removed, just straight to removal). The term "ultimate solution" has been used by some radicals. I don't believe the Left is ready to do that yet, but the fact that the words were even spoken is crazy - NEVER AGAIN.
This isn't new, it's been discussed for a while now - I easily found an article dated from June on Fox talking about cancellation. But with control of the entire government, Democrats have quit feeling the need to hide the opinions they have previously held in secret. This is discrimination and bigotry - it's ugly and unAmerican.
You want something more recent - look at the number of Democrats who railed against conservatives yesterday for the crime of "daring" to praise Dr King. On Dr Martin Luther King day, multiple were told that white people cannot talk about Dr King and they will regret it once the purge happens. Talk about missing a message.
Are you unaware of this? If so, you should read media sources from all over because if you're only reading CNN, you are being lied to through omission.
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:17:33 AM
Free speech with the repercussions with Cancel Culture. Say something they don't like, you get FIRED from your job. They are trying to take gun rights away. Also restraint GATHERING IN GROUPS, TRADE and TRAVEL bankrupting many small businesses. Just to name a few off the top of my head. There are many more.
You're joking, right?
Do you understand that the Bill of Rights applies to governments and not private entities? That being said, you don't explain how the media is infringing on anyone's right to free speech, even assuming that such were possible.
You don't have a constitutional right to work for a particular employer. If you do something that reflects badly on the company they are generally free to discharge you, assuming you are an at-will employee as are the vast majority of the working Americans. Few workers have any union protections, which is mostly thanks to the GOP, not the Dems.
As for the Covid restrictions, I assume that is what you are talking about, so far, I don't know of a court that has declared them to be unconstitutional. Maybe someday a court will, but if it was your decision, would you just let everyone go about their business with no restrictions? How many should die to keep the economy humming along, assuming that is possible? I don't have an answer. I can sympathize with the politicians who have to make the decision.
I will say that I think that the approach has been wrong in that if we are going to shut down, then the government should have spend the stimulus money covering payroll and expenses of the companies affected. If the government shuts down a business for the greater good of society, then society should step in with cash as long as the business is forced into stasis.
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:20:03 AM
Things are not over here in Georgia yet. There was a hearing last Friday concerning Fulton County not turning over ballots for analysis and ignoring open records requests.
Who is requesting the ballots and for what purpose? Balloting in this country is secret for a reason. I am sure that you don't really want the world to know who you are, where you live, and how you vote. Is this a court case?
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:23:08 AM
I’m not going to make a list of things o know you’ve seen and heard.
Here’s a 12 second search about Josh Hawley’s book contract being canceled due to his objection to certification of the election - a valid, common occurrence in Congress.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/media/josh-hawley-book-canceled/index.html
Josh Hawley's book deal wasn't cancelled just for being conservative. It was cancelled for a baseless challenges to our democratic processes. He, and other "conservatives" stepped over the line when they made unsupportable and baseless claims that the election was stolen. This was a direct attack at the republic which was not in fact conservative, but rather authoritarian populism.
Post by: bflynn on January 19, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
So 7's attempts to get everyone to ignore me is not cancellation? How interesting.
Lol.
Ok, if you're being ignored, that's hilarious. There hasn't been this much activity since I asked people for the proof of election fraud.
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:35:30 AM
Democrats are suggesting that conservatives be cancelled. Anyone who supported Trump should be shut out of social media, fired from their jobs and deprogrammed. They are suggesting that Republican senators have committed an insurrection because they disagree and they need to be removed via the 14th Amendment (not tried, convicted and removed, just straight to removal). The term "ultimate solution" has been used by some radicals. I don't believe the Left is ready to do that yet, but the fact that the words were even spoken is crazy - NEVER AGAIN.
You are confusing conservatism with sedition. The GOP underfire have basely sought to foment an insurrection with the false claim that the election was stolen. That led directly to the ransacking of the capital. They are not being targeted for conservative views, because they are not conservatives. They are authoritarian populists who love their power much more than they love our country.
No one who truly loves our country, or their guns for that matter, should be willing to live under a dictator/oligarchy form of government. You think your liberties are under threat now, just what until someone like Trump has all the power and the legislature is neutered. They will disarm your ass so fast you won't know what hit you. Without our form of government, imperfect though it might be, we would be Russia. Lots of land, lots of resources, educated people, but no freedoms.
Quote
This isn't new, it's been discussed for a while now - I easily found an article dated from June on Fox talking about cancellation. But with control of the entire government, Democrats have quit feeling the need to hide the opinions they have previously held in secret. This is discrimination and bigotry - it's ugly and unAmerican.
To the degree that is true, it is true of both the left and the right. We have extremists on both flanks who, thanks mostly to the internet, have a megaphone to vent their spleen.
Quote
You want something more recent - look at the number of Democrats who railed against conservatives yesterday for the crime of "daring" to praise Dr King. On Dr Martin Luther King day, multiple were told that white people cannot talk about Dr King and they will regret it once the purge happens. Talk about missing a message.
I assume you are talking about black Democrats. I know it is scary when black and brown people say divisive things, but it is also scary when the Proud Boys show up with guns. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.
Quote
Are you unaware of this? If so, you should read media sources from all over because if you're only reading CNN, you are being lied to through omission.
I read media sources from half a dozen places a day.
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:36:52 AM
Lol.
Ok, if you're being ignored, that's hilarious. There hasn't been this much activity since I asked people for the proof of election fraud.
No, I don't think I am being ignored, I was pointing out that 7IQ was trying to cancel me. The point being that cancel is not limited to the left wing.
Post by: Username on January 19, 2021, 11:42:22 AM
No, I don't think I am being ignored, I was pointing out that 7IQ was trying to cancel me. The point being that cancel is not limited to the left wing.There it is! The sign of a losing argument is resorting to insults. And further proof that Kristin is Stengar.
Post by: Username on January 19, 2021, 11:44:44 AM
It was cancelled for a baseless challenges to our democratic processes. He, and other "conservatives" stepped over the line when they made unsupportable and baseless claims that the election was stolen. This was a direct attack at the republic which was not in fact conservative, but rather authoritarian populism.Is it your position that all "baseless, unsupported" claims against the government should be suppressed? Think carefully before answering.
Post by: Kristin on January 19, 2021, 11:54:01 AM
Is it your position that all "baseless, unsupported" claims against the government should be suppressed? Think carefully before answering.
Pretty much just the ones that seek to prevent the duly elected representatives from performing their constitutional duties.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 19, 2021, 11:58:01 AM
Who is requesting the ballots and for what purpose? Balloting in this country is secret for a reason. I am sure that you don't really want the world to know who you are, where you live, and how you vote. Is this a court case?You are showing your lack of understanding of the Georgia system. There is absolutely nothing on a ballot that names the voter. I believe they call it a secret ballot. ::)
You can do your own research on the the suits.
Post by: Username on January 19, 2021, 12:05:33 PM
Pretty much just the ones that seek to prevent the duly elected representatives from performing their constitutional duties.I get it. Pointing out flaws in the government prevents elected representatives from performing their constitutional duties, so it must be suppressed. Anything critical of the government must be silenced since it seeks to prevent representatives from doing what they do to (in the opinion of the author) destroy the nation. Is that correct? Then CNN should have been suppressed forever ago as they did everything they could to seek to prevent Trump (and pretty much any conservative representative) from performing their constitutional duties.
Post by: Number7 on January 19, 2021, 12:44:27 PM
I get it. Pointing out flaws in the government prevents elected representatives from performing their constitutional duties, so it must be suppressed. Anything critical of the government must be silenced since it seeks to prevent representatives from doing what they do to (in the opinion of the author) destroy the nation. Is that correct? Then CNN should have been suppressed forever ago as they did everything they could to seek to prevent Trump (and pretty much any conservative representative) from performing their constitutional duties.
No...No...No...
Kristen only means those really bad republican, white supremest, rioting, murderers....
She can't imagine anything resembling honesty, integrity, clarity, or sanity when attacking anyone who dares to disagree with her communist bullshit.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 19, 2021, 01:11:45 PM
As for the Covid restrictions, I assume that is what you are talking about, so far, I don't know of a court that has declared them to be unconstitutional.
I know that courts in Pennsylvania and Michigan have ruled some of the restrictions in those states were unconstitutional. Could be other cases in other states, but those were notable by anyone paying attention. I do not know the current appeal status, if any. Some became moot after the restrictions were lifted so may not have been worth appealing.
Post by: nddons on January 19, 2021, 02:34:27 PM
Josh Hawley's book deal wasn't cancelled just for being conservative. It was cancelled for a baseless challenges to our democratic processes. He, and other "conservatives" stepped over the line when they made unsupportable and baseless claims that the election was stolen. This was a direct attack at the republic which was not in fact conservative, but rather authoritarian populism.You are so full of shit. Direct attack on the Republic?
In 2000 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when Rep. Alcee Hastings and a dozen other democrats objected to George Bush’s electoral victory?
In 2004 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones stopped the electoral count and formally objected to George Bush’s victory?
In 2016 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when the democrats wanted 12% of Trump’s electors to become faithless electors and vote for Hillary, and Rep. Pramila Jayapal and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, supported by Nancy Pelosi, objected to Donald Trump’s victory?
When I call a man a drama queen, it’s a statement of ridicule and derision. In your case, you are LITERALLY a drama queen.
Post by: bflynn on January 19, 2021, 04:29:58 PM
You are confusing conservatism with sedition.
You're confusing a few hundred people with 100 million republicans. FWIW, I am not one, I'm a moderate liberal, but I'm also a staunch supporter of a free Republic.
I have never heard anyone on the right suggest that people on the Left need to be deprogrammed.
You are stretching facts past their breaking point and selectively choosing which facts to use. That's fine, this isn't a court, you aren't required to abide by rules of fairness. But we also aren't required to listen to you then. At this point, you aren't being run off, you've just delegitimized yourself.
Post by: Kristin on January 20, 2021, 02:59:22 PM
You are showing your lack of understanding of the Georgia system. There is absolutely nothing on a ballot that names the voter. I believe they call it a secret ballot. ::)
You can do your own research on the the suits.
Lets see! Machine counted once! Hand counted! Machine counted again! Every suit rejected so far! What is the over and under on the dismissal?
Post by: Kristin on January 20, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
I get it. Pointing out flaws in the government prevents elected representatives from performing their constitutional duties, so it must be suppressed. Anything critical of the government must be silenced since it seeks to prevent representatives from doing what they do to (in the opinion of the author) destroy the nation. Is that correct? Then CNN should have been suppressed forever ago as they did everything they could to seek to prevent Trump (and pretty much any conservative representative) from performing their constitutional duties.
We are not talking about dissent! We are talking about breaking window, beating officers, and ransacking the capital. Pay attention and put away the hyperbole.
Post by: Kristin on January 20, 2021, 03:03:51 PM
I know that courts in Pennsylvania and Michigan have ruled some of the restrictions in those states were unconstitutional. Could be other cases in other states, but those were notable by anyone paying attention. I do not know the current appeal status, if any. Some became moot after the restrictions were lifted so may not have been worth appealing.
Pretty much the only ruling that I recall that went Trumps way was one that asked for better access for the observers. That was in PA. If there was one in MI similar, I don't know. But there were none that invalidated any ballots or required any redo's.
Post by: Kristin on January 20, 2021, 03:06:39 PM
You are so full of shit. Direct attack on the Republic?
In 2000 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when Rep. Alcee Hastings and a dozen other democrats objected to George Bush’s electoral victory?
In 2004 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones stopped the electoral count and formally objected to George Bush’s victory?
In 2016 did you call it a direct attack on the Republic when the democrats wanted 12% of Trump’s electors to become faithless electors and vote for Hillary, and Rep. Pramila Jayapal and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, supported by Nancy Pelosi, objected to Donald Trump’s victory?
When I call a man a drama queen, it’s a statement of ridicule and derision. In your case, you are LITERALLY a drama queen.
Yeah! Yeah! Whatabout! Whatabout! Whatabout! My point still stands. He didn't lose the book deal because he was a conservative. He did it because he lied about the election and he objected to the election based on the lies. End of story!
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 20, 2021, 03:24:21 PM
Pretty much the only ruling that I recall that went Trumps way was one that asked for better access for the observers. That was in PA. If there was one in MI similar, I don't know. But there were none that invalidated any ballots or required any redo's.
I quoted the sentence I was responding to:
[...]
As for the Covid restrictions, I assume that is what you are talking about, so far, I don't know of a court that has declared them to be unconstitutional.
[...]
I know that courts in Pennsylvania and Michigan have ruled some of the restrictions in those states were unconstitutional. Could be other cases in other states, but those were notable by anyone paying attention. I do not know the current appeal status, if any. Some became moot after the restrictions were lifted so may not have been worth appealing.
This subthread has nothing to do with the presidential election. My reply was merely intended to indicate your assumption about court judgements on some Covid restrictions was incorrect.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 20, 2021, 03:59:54 PM
Lets see! Machine counted once! Hand counted! Machine counted again! Every suit rejected so far! What is the over and under on the dismissal?WTF does that have to do with exposing the names of voters? Can you not stay on topic? BTW, do you realize that before a ballot was counted the first time it could have been adjudicated and the vote changed without the voter even knowing it happened. Once adjudicated the original is gone. In Fulton county 103k+ of a batch of 116+ ballots were adjudicated.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on January 20, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
Pretty much the only ruling that I recall that went Trumps way was one that asked for better access for the observers. That was in PA. If there was one in MI similar, I don't know. But there were none that invalidated any ballots or required any redo's.The courts punted. They wanted no part of a possible civil war that could happen if the widespread cheating was exposed.
PA violated their own election rules. What about that?
Post by: Username on January 20, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
We are not talking about dissent! We are talking about breaking window, beating officers, and ransacking the capital. Pay attention and put away the hyperbole.Um, yes we were. We were talking about suppressing a book because of what the author said. Not talking about actions, but talking about speech. Remember, you said:
Quote
It was cancelled for a baseless challenges to our democratic processes. He, and other "conservatives" stepped over the line when they made unsupportable and baseless claims that the election was stolen. This was a direct attack at the republic which was not in fact conservative, but rather authoritarian populism.
Post by: nddons on January 20, 2021, 07:00:01 PM
We are not talking about dissent! We are talking about breaking window, beating officers, and ransacking the capital. Pay attention and put away the hyperbole.Says the person who said above that the GOP sought to “foment insurrection” by arguing that the election was punctuated by fraud? You’re the one saying it’s not about dissent?
Whew. It’s tough to keep up with your hyperbolic breathlessness.
Post by: nddons on January 20, 2021, 07:01:39 PM
Yeah! Yeah! Whatabout! Whatabout! Whatabout! My point still stands. He didn't lose the book deal because he was a conservative. He did it because he lied about the election and he objected to the election based on the lies. End of story!What a troll.
Post by: Number7 on January 20, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
What a troll.
Drama queen
Fake intellectual
Troll...
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 24, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CreVpaDZgOY&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=DavidK.Clements
Post by: Number7 on January 24, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Amazing video, details how the riot was carried out by Antifa and abetted by Capitol police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CreVpaDZgOY&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=DavidK.Clements
kristen the drama queen troll has disappeared again, not having gotten any adulation for her bullshit lies.
Now that the facts are eeking put our resident assholes will be scarce again.