PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 27, 2020, 09:14:35 AM
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This could be an interesting discussion (but POA snowflakes keep causing such threads to be locked...)
so, one question is do you think a COVID-19 vaccination will be mandatory?
And would you get vaccinated when(if) a covid-19 vaccine becomes available?
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This could be an interesting discussion (but POA snowflakes keep causing such threads to be locked...)
so, one question is do you think a COVID-19 vaccination will be mandatory?
And would you get vaccinated when(if) a covid-19 vaccine becomes available?
No, and probably no.
I think there will be a push to make it mandatory, but that will be a bridge too far for Americans.
I get an annual flu vaccine and am not an anti-vaccer (not sure how to spell that.)
But in this case I don’t plan on being on the bleeding edge of the Pharma response to what is turning out to be a relatively minor virus in the scheme of things.
Covid isn’t fake, but the pseudo-medical political response is completely fake.
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I have no plans on getting it. It probably won't be effective.
And I don't want government of any kind mandating what will be injected into my body.
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Note that Maskachusetts recently announced that school children will be required to get a flu vaccination... this year... and every year from now on.
A short hop from that to requiring everyone to get a covid-19 vaccination.
(typo)
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Note that Maskachusetts recently announced that school children will be required to get a flu vaccination... this year... and every year from now on.
A short hop from that to requiring everyone to get a covid-19 vacciation.
Reason enough to move.
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Might depend on November 3rd. ;)
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I think it's a moot point because by the time they have enough doses for a mandatory order to be relevant, the number of cases are going to have plummeted and it will be irrelevant.
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I think it's a moot point because by the time they have enough doses for a mandatory order to be relevant, the number of cases are going to have plummeted and it will be irrelevant.
except that at least two companies already started production, with something like 500,000,000 doses to be available in Jan 2021.
maybe it's 300,000,000.... but still I'll wager that there won't be a shortage of doses available.
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No and no. Probably already had the Chinese flu. Not an anti vaccer either.
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Interesting that so few here would get vaccinated and so many on POA would (at least eventually)... some don't want to beta test or alpha test a vaccine.
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except that at least two companies already started production, with something like 500,000,000 doses to be available in Jan 2021.
maybe it's 300,000,000.... but still I'll wager that there won't be a shortage of doses available.
500,000,000 / 7,500,000,000,000 is not enough.
The govt has contracted for 300 million doses from Astrazenaca. But the production capabilities are only enough for them to make about a billion every year and they've only going for a few months.
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500,000,000 / 7,500,000,000,000 is not enough.
The govt has contracted for 300 million doses from Astrazenaca. But the production capabilities are only enough for them to make about a billion every year and they've only going for a few months.
ah, you are assuming that their production would be not be just for the US...
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Correct, because they've contracted 400k to the EU, 200k to someone else (India?) and 100k to Russia as well as the 300k to the US. It will be next summer before they can fulfill it all.
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(https://i0.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/kermit.jpg?w=514&ssl=1)
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Here's a little song I wrote,
You might want to sing it note for note,
Don't worry,
Get Covid,
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Here's a little song I wrote,
You might want to sing it note for note,
Don't worry,
Get Covid,
Again. Your demographic should take all the precautions. Masks, isolation, social distancing, possibly vaccines if they come out etc. Most don't need to and you are painting with too broad a brush.
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idle thought: will taking the vaccine result in testing positive (PCR test)?
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idle thought: will taking the vaccine result in testing positive (PCR test)?
No. The only vaccine that is using (dead) virus is from China. All the ones in play in the US will use a compound with the same structure that reacts with the T-cells so your body produces the antibodies naturally. But you never get a virus, live or dead, so you can't catch covid from the vaccine.
Still remains to be seen if the antibodies are permanent or temporary. My read is not permanent, probably 6-9 months? Guessing.
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Still remains to be seen if the antibodies are permanent or temporary. My read is not permanent, probably 6-9 months? Guessing.
Memory cells last the lifetime of the animal. Only limitation on permanence is mutation of the virus.
To support my assertion I am attaching three screen shots from my iPad’s Kindle edition of “Molecular Biology of the Cell (Sixth Edition),
by Bruce Alberts, Alexander D. Johnson, Julian Lewis, David Morgan, Martin Raff, Keith Roberts, & Peter Walter”
(That text is considered one of the best on the subject of molecular biology.)
The section titled “Immunological Memory Depends On Both clonal expansion and Lymphocyte Differentiation“ mentions the lifetime of immunity.
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A briefer less technical summary of my understanding is this:
Molecular biology’s current theory of acquired immunity is that it is permanent - and that is true regardless of the antigen. (“Antigen” is short for “antibody generator” - a thing that is foreign to the body that the immune system attacks.)
The statements “We don’t know if immunity to covid-19 is permanent” and “We don’t know if there are no Unicorns” are both true - and also void of actionable information. A reporter can get away with stating the first and appear to be imparting useful (and scary) knowledge, while most would recognize the second as a useless epistemological observation.
If immunity to covid-19 is not permanent, that means the current theories of immunity are wrong. It would not have anything to do with covid-19.
If or when someone is seen as genuinely being re-infected, it is more likely because the virus mutated or because that particular person either has a genetic mutation affecting their immune system.
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If or when someone is seen as genuinely being re-infected, it is more likely because the virus mutated or because that particular person either has a genetic mutation affecting their immune system.
There was an article (AP?) about a man who was re-infected, but with a different strain of covid-19 (I think some people suspect that there are up to six variants of covid-19 at this time).
It's my understanding that this is the only known (reported?) case of someone being re-infected.
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There are viruses which we do not development permanent immunity to - Rhinovirus, the most common cause of the common cold, is one example. You get immunity for some time after the virus, but you don't keep it.
I don't think we've had enough time to know which way Coronavirus goes yet.
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There are viruses which we do not development permanent immunity to - Rhinovirus, the most common cause of the common cold, is one example. You get immunity for some time after the virus, but you don't keep it.
I don't think we've had enough time to know which way Coronavirus goes yet.
Cold and Flu viruses are different strains. We develop an immunity to one and another emerges. Corona will do the same.
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https://newspunch.com/biggest-crowd-in-german-history-rises-up-against-bill-gates-and-big-pharma-in-berlin/
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There are viruses which we do not development permanent immunity to - Rhinovirus, the most common cause of the common cold, is one example. You get immunity for some time after the virus, but you don't keep it.
I don't think we've had enough time to know which way Coronavirus goes yet.
There are several hundred known variants of rhinoviruses and adenoviruses, which comprise most of the viruses that cause the “common cold”. [1] It just seems like you aren’t acquiring immunity to colds - but you are. As you get older you’ll become immune to more and more of the variants you encounter. As a result you get colds less often, as shown in this chart (from [2]):
(https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2002695882/2009452718/gr2.jpg)
[1] https://www.scq.ubc.ca/rhinovirus-an-unstoppable-cause-of-the-common-cold/ (https://www.scq.ubc.ca/rhinovirus-an-unstoppable-cause-of-the-common-cold/)
[2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(03)12162-9/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(03)12162-9/fulltext)
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https://newspunch.com/biggest-crowd-in-german-history-rises-up-against-bill-gates-and-big-pharma-in-berlin/
While I agree with his general thesis and it is great to see so many turn out, railing against 5G is based on unsubstantiated harm and besides it has nothing to do with covid-19. In fact I find it ironic that people who complain about their freedoms being curtailed by health authorities because they may cause others to get sick from a virus turn right around and demand health authorities curtail the freedom of others because the radiations of others may cause them to get sick.
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I guess I need to sign up for some more abuse. Such is life. First, Jim is correct. If you raise an immune response it sticks around forever. Memory B cells and all that. Whether or not a vaccine generates a robust immune response is another issue.
There are several types of vaccines being produced against the 'rona. There are folks making killed virus vaccines, there are some in development. These do have some potential to cause disease, but it is really quite low. They're also the slowest to develop, because you have to grow the virus in order to kill it, which means you have to grow the virus in vitro and harvest it. Figuring how how to grow it in the lab and scaling up takes time.
There are also subunit vaccines in development. You take a part of the virus the immune system is likely to see and grow it in some sort of cell. The HPV vaccine was developed in this way, a coat protein of the HPV virus grown in yeast cells. Its amazing effective too.
I think the vaccines in current Phase III trials are a new type of vaccine called an mRNA vaccine. The vaccine consists of an mRNA encoding the viral protein, the idea is it will get into cells, which will themselves make the protein for the immune system to attack. I have seen this with a VERY jaundiced eye for a lot of reasons, but the damn things are in Phase III trials so they are likely safe (already better than I thought) though can't be certain how effective. If the mRNA vaccines actually work they'll be available early in the new year. Also, it's really easy to ramp up production because you don't have to grow anything, its all manufactured.
There isn't a vaccine for the common cold because there's no such thing as a cold virus. Rhinoviruses do cause colds, so do coronaviruses and a few others. The problem is there are lots of different viruses that can cause these symptoms, and none of them cause that dire a disease.
And I really don't think the federal government will require vaccination. They don't require it for stuff like measles and mumps, which are worse than the 'rona. It might be hard to get your kid in school without though, and you might have a tough time showing up for work.
Please do mask up and stay away from folks please. I think a lot of the people who frequent this board have comorbidities, and I don't want to see anyone harmed by Coronavirus, not even reprobates like you guys.
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I guess I need to sign up for some more abuse..................
,,,,,,,,,,,,, , not even reprobates like you guys.
While the body of your post was thoughtful commentary that actually adds value to the conversation, you could have left out the above.
If you can continue on that path, there's hope.
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While the body of your post was thoughtful commentary that actually adds value to the conversation, you could have left out the above.
If you can continue on that path, there's hope.
Lighten up Francis. He was trying to be funny and cordial.
And people say I have no sense of humor and that I am too sensitive.
@Steingar, I do have to admit that I agree with your last post. But don't let that happen too often.
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While the body of your post was thoughtful commentary that actually adds value to the conversation, you could have left out the above.
If you can continue on that path, there's hope.
Do not tell me what to do. You are not the boss of me.
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Do not tell me what to do. You are not the boss of me.
It's called "constructive criticism". I'm sure no one has ever tried this with you given you propensity to immediately start playing the victim.
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It's called "constructive criticism". I'm sure no one has ever tried this with you given you propensity to immediately start playing the victim.
Your not my dad. Fuck off.
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and, this is one of the benefits of pilotspin vs the POA playpen. Members here can say whatever the heck they want....
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And I really don't think the federal government will require vaccination. ...
what about State governments? do you think State governments won't require vaccinations?
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Your not my dad.
Correct. Had I been you would have turned out much, much better.
Fuck off.
Isn't that what your wife told you this morning?
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what about State governments? do you think State governments won't require vaccinations?
https://www.mass.gov/news/flu-vaccine-now-required-for-all-massachusetts-school-students-enrolled-in-child-care-pre (https://www.mass.gov/news/flu-vaccine-now-required-for-all-massachusetts-school-students-enrolled-in-child-care-pre)
If Massachusetts now requires flu vaccine for students, that lays the groundwork to later require the entire population of the state to be vaccinated for the more dangerous Covid-19- once a vaccine becomes available.
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https://www.mass.gov/news/flu-vaccine-now-required-for-all-massachusetts-school-students-enrolled-in-child-care-pre (https://www.mass.gov/news/flu-vaccine-now-required-for-all-massachusetts-school-students-enrolled-in-child-care-pre)
If Massachusetts now requires flu vaccine for students, that lays the groundwork to later require the entire population of the state to be vaccinated for the more dangerous Covid-19- once a vaccine becomes available.
yup. I know (I'm in Maskachusetts)... and that was part of the reason for the question.
The twilight-zone part is that a child that is not vaccinated by 31 Dec 2020 will be prohibited from class.... even virtuals class.
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and, this is one of the benefits of pilotspin vs the POA playpen. Members here can say whatever the heck they want....
Yeah, but not without getting a "fuck off pal" personal message from a moderator.
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Your not my dad. Fuck off.
For someone who says he has an advanced degree, I'm surprised that you misused "your".
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For someone who says he has an advanced degree, I'm surprised that you misused "your".
I'm not surprised. He doesn't know the difference between "loose" and "lose" either.
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Yeah, but not without getting a "fuck off pal" personal message from a moderator.
When/where did that occur? And the board is un-moderated. The only person that said that was Steingar.
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When/where did that occur? And the board is un-moderated. The only person that said that was Steingar.
As I said, it was a personal message. I'm sure the moderator in question will have the balls to admit it.
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As I said, it was a personal message. I'm sure the moderator in question will have the balls to admit it.
Got it.
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Correct. Had I been you would have turned out much, much better.
You are just like my dad. A bigoted asshole who thinks he knows everything.
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While the body of your post was thoughtful commentary that actually adds value to the conversation, you could have left out the above.
If you can continue on that path, there's hope.
That’s ok. We can take it. Also, it proves he didn’t cut and past someone else’s work.
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what's the phrase? The apple didn't fall far from the tree...
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That’s ok. We can take it. Also, it proves he didn’t cut and past someone else’s work.
Stan, the voice of reason. And yes we can take it. We're pilots and Americans.
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You are just like my dad. A bigoted asshole who thinks he knows everything.
Projecting again?
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yup. I know (I'm in Maskachusetts)... and that was part of the reason for the question.
The twilight-zone part is that a child that is not vaccinated by 31 Dec 2020 will be prohibited from class.... even virtuals class.
Sounds like there will be a market for forged vaccine documents.
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Sounds like there will be a market for forged vaccine documents.
Your papers are not in order. Get to the delousing station. Ignore the Zyklon B canisters.
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Please do mask up and stay away from folks please.
Do not tell me what to do. You are not the boss of me.
but you don't walk the walk.
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but you don't walk the walk.
Just because I don't like him and don't want to be told what todo doesn't mean I want the dude to die. News flash, you don't have to like someone to not want them to die.
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Just because I don't like him and don't want to be told what todo doesn't mean I want the dude to die. News flash, you don't have to like someone to not want them to die.
You are telling someone how to behave. "Mask up and stay away from folks." I guess you don't see the irony after just saying "don't tell me what to do, you're not the boss of me." Unless you are old and/or sick this entire virus escapade is a ridiculous, and purposeful OVER REACTION.
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You are telling someone how to behave. "Mask up and stay away from folks." I guess you don't see the irony after just saying "don't tell me what to do, you're not the boss of me." Unless you are old and/or sick this entire virus escapade is a ridiculous, and purposeful OVER REACTION.
Progressives dictate the behavior of others. When a conservative speaks out against something like abortion, the progressive shouts "My body my choice!".
When a conservative says "Mask wearing should be an individual choice", the progressive yells "Your a science denier and you want to kill everyone!"
Progressives support the murder of the unborn all the way up to birth, and even today have advocated for infanticide. But yet they are obsessed with "every life saved" in a phony pandemic.
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Just because I don't like him and don't want to be told what todo doesn't mean I want the dude to die. News flash, you don't have to like someone to not want them to die.
Whoosh
Waaaaay over your head
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Progressives dictate the behavior of others. When a conservative speaks out against something like abortion, the progressive shouts "My body my choice!".
When a conservative says "Mask wearing should be an individual choice", the progressive yells "Your a science denier and you want to kill everyone!"
Progressives support the murder of the unborn all the way up to birth, and even today have advocated for infanticide. But yet they are obsessed with "every life saved" in a phony pandemic.
A month ago our governor imposed a mask mandate.
Two days into it, my wife went into the grocery store, and was talking to the Pepsi distributor who was stocking Pepsi. They both took their masks off to talk.
A Karen walked into the aisle and started yelling at them to put their mask on. “It’s the law!” she said.
She started waking towards them still cackling. Her mask said “Proud Feminist. Proud Liberal.”
My wife read her mask and said “Aren’t you the people who say ‘my body, my choice?’ Then ‘it’s MY body, MY choice!’” as she snapped her mask on her neck in defiance.
The woman was speechless, and left in a huff. The Pepsi guy said “Nicely done!”
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I keep waiting for one of these obese folks wearing their mask say something to me. I'm ready for them.
Fortunately, we don't seem to have a lot of Karen’s here. No one has ever said anything about not having a mask on. Only times were at a Walmart, they had two mask Nazis at the door. Had a Home Depot where three different employees asked if we needed a mask and we just said no.
The Publix in our area, grocery store, removed the stupid one way aisle arrows.
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The Publix in our area, grocery store, removed the stupid one way aisle arrows.
one way aisle.... lmao... what kind of idiot pays any attention to that?
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The Publix in our area, grocery store, removed the stupid one way aisle arrows.
Here too. I was wondering if they paid attention to my blistering letter.
I thought about going up to the manager and thanking him, but half the things I was looking for were out of stock, so I wasn't in the mood.
Instead of pints of coffee creamer, they had quarts, which will last my wife a month, (I drink it black) if the creamer lasts that long. They had my favorite hot sauce buy-one-get-one free, but they only had one. And they don't give rain checks any more. Just like the Duracell batteries that were on sale, but they didn't have any when I checked on Thursday, Saturday and Monday. No rain checks there either. Or the Parmesan cheese that I like that was on sale but out of stock all week, along with a half dozen other things on my list.
But I'm really glad they did away with those stupid one-way aisles.
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I keep waiting for one of these obese folks wearing their mask say something to me. I'm ready for them.
Fortunately, we don't seem to have a lot of Karen’s here. No one has ever said anything about not having a mask on. Only times were at a Walmart, they had two mask Nazis at the door. Had a Home Depot where three different employees asked if we needed a mask and we just said no.
The Publix in our area, grocery store, removed the stupid one way aisle arrows.
I was in line, wearing a construction dust mask at the grocery store the other day when an older gentlemen in line in front of me gave be the back away hand signal. I was at least six feet away from him, but wasn't standing on the red floor symbols. I told him I was at least six feet away and offered to measure it, then I said if he was scared maybe he should self isolate and stay at home. He said he mostly did. I told him it was not be Bubonic Plague but glad to see he was taking his health seriously. ::)
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You are telling someone how to behave. "Mask up and stay away from folks." I guess you don't see the irony after just saying "don't tell me what to do, you're not the boss of me." Unless you are old and/or sick this entire virus escapade is a ridiculous, and purposeful OVER REACTION.
Most of you are old enough for the virus to set up a major infection. That was more a plea. Covid can lay you out and can destroy your health on an ongoing basis. I honestly don't want to see that happen to any of you. So please mask up and keep your distance.
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Most of you are old enough for the virus to set up a major infection. That was more a plea. Covid can lay you out and can destroy your health on an ongoing basis. I honestly don't want to see that happen to any of you. So please mask up and keep your distance.
Says the guy that was just telling us "You're not my father!' and "You're not the boss of me!"
Typical progressive, "Do as I demand, but don't you dare tell me to do anything".
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Says the guy that was just telling us "You're not my father!' and "You're not the boss of me!"
Typical progressive, "Do as I demand, but don't you dare tell me to do anything".
::)
I thought he properly explained that it was more of a plea than a demand. Putting aside whether or not you think masks are effective, taking precautions makes sense. Refusing to because you got your panties in a wad doesn't.
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Most of you are old enough for the virus to set up a major infection. That was more a plea. Covid can lay you out and can destroy your health on an ongoing basis. I honestly don't want to see that happen to any of you. So please mask up and keep your distance.
THIS. And this guy agrees. Actually I agree with your first part, us older people are in more danger. But it's not the masks and one way aisles that will keep you safe. Get some sun.
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While I hope that the need for masks will be gone after a while, I do like the Plexiglas between me and other people. The Plexiglas barriers set up in the physical therapy office, the barriers between me and cashiers, the walls set up around the seat where I get my hair cut, and various other places are really great. I have no need or desire to be close to someone I don't know. I like having a barrier between me and whatever germ vector is on the other side. I'm no germophobe, but I do now enjoy something between me and them.
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And welcome back Rush!!
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And welcome back Rush!!
I’m lurking a tiny bit more. I still don’t want to think about reality too much. I had to take a big break from all sources of news about what’s happening to this country.
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THIS. And this guy agrees. Actually I agree with your first part, us older people are in more danger. But it's not the masks and one way aisles that will keep you safe. Get some sun.
Hi Rush! Nice to see you.