PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: asechrest on June 26, 2019, 04:02:07 PM
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Heard this from an NPR guest this morning.
Can anything that requires the time (money) and services of another human be considered a fundamental right?
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Nope.
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The access to an education is a right; you can't be turned away due to race, sex, economic status, etc. After that, nothing else is owed to anybody. It's up to the individual to work and pay for that education. You do it right and you won't go into debt.
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Heard this from an NPR guest this morning.
Can anything that requires the time (money) and services of another human be considered a fundamental right?
I’m watching the DNC debate, and learning that there are a whole lot more rights to free shit than I ever knew. Smh.
But you’re correct. A “right” that requires involuntary servitude of another isn’t a right, it’s a taking. And since the 13th Amendment, involuntary servitude is unconstitutional.
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I think it is the other way around. A nation has a right to an educated workforce. Everyone has the "duty" to educate themselves to some extent. If a society chooses to help subsidize that effort, that may help both sides, but it is still the individual duty to pursue and work for their own education. If an individual chooses to not work for at least a minimal education, then the results of that choice are on that person.
I didn't walk up a snow covered hill, both ways, barefoot to get my education, but I did work two jobs for most of seven years to get my 4 year college education (with no student debt) and to be able to help support my parents and siblings along the way. I know that college costs more now than it did when I was in school, but it is still possible to ensure your own education.
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"Education" needs to be redefined. Historically, university degrees were for professionals, thinkers, and the upper class. It benefited those with higher IQs, and benefited society in general, for those educated in history, literature, medicine and the sciences would lead mankind's progress. It was never intended to teach you basic life skills.
For most people, "education" was not university. Farming and skilled labor was learned in the family business, or by apprenticeship. The majority of people learned their life skills this way, which obviously also benefited society, by growing food, manufacturing goods and providing services.
We have gone wrong in the U.S. by deciding the university degree should be for everyone and that everyone has the potential to work in the professions. There is a lack of training for working class jobs. And insidiously, a lack of pride and respect for those; the subliminal message is: everyone can aspire to be an educated professional and therefore if that's not what you want, or you don't have the brainpower for it, you are inferior. This is the subtle message when you say, "Everyone has a right to a higher education".
Just in case someone accuses me of classism, there is no absolute association of intelligence or potential with your socioeconomic background or race. Everyone should have equal access to whatever type of education they want, if they can pay for it. And if they cannot, there are grants and financial aid and if you cannot get that, then you work your way through. You have no "right" to other people's money.
The whole educational system is run by utopians who think everyone can and should be doctors and lawyers and engineers or at least social workers and community organizers. It's run by government collectivists. The whole thing should be replaced with a system of private schools specializing in various crafts, skills or career training. If you shut down all the public schools and taxpayer funded universities tomorrow, there would arise great numbers and varieties of schools competing for students, driving prices down, and you'd be able to pick cafeteria style what education you want, rather than submit to the indoctrination of mostly liberal-minded government overlords that run our current system.
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Something I want to do when I have some time is pick a college and go through their course offerings and see what could easily be eliminated and still have students get a good education, probably a better one actually.
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Something I want to do when I have some time is pick a college and go through their course offerings and see what could easily be eliminated and still have students get a good education, probably a better one actually.
Well, I may as well start: RACIST!
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Everyone has a right to access to education. That does not mean that I can pick whatever education I want and have someone else pay for it. I could not afford Stanford so I went to a state school. Many others can not afford state schools so there's community college. There are many trade schools available. There's a huge shortage of welders, plumbers, electricians, and pretty much every other trade and they make way more than Ivy-League educated feminist art majors. Equal access to education, yes. Everyone gets what they want, no.
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I posed the question to the kids last night at the dinner table -- is education a fundamental right? The conversation was brief, but interesting. They both answered "yes?" in that rising tone that makes clear they're unsure about the answer. So I rephrased and asked how we get educated. "Teachers". "So if we all have a fundamental right to education, does that mean we can force people to teach us?"
Then there was a comment: "Well we can learn on the internet". And then we talked about web content, and whether we could force people to create it for free for our own benefit.
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I posed the question to the kids last night at the dinner table -- is education a fundamental right? The conversation was brief, but interesting. They both answered "yes?" in that rising tone that makes clear they're unsure about the answer. So I rephrased and asked how we get educated. "Teachers". "So if we all have a fundamental right to education, does that mean we can force people to teach us?"
Then there was a comment: "Well we can learn on the internet". And then we talked about web content, and whether we could force people to create it for free for our own benefit.
Who are you, and how did you get Asechrest's password?
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Who are you, and how did you get Asechrest's password?
Exactly. He's setting us up for the "But"...…..
Either that, or he's bucking for Moderator.
:)
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Education is an opportunity for those with an enterprising mind, to raise their level of success and standard of living. It is not a free gift paid for by people that actually worked and paid for their own.
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Who are you, and how did you get Asechrest's password?
I was thinking the same thing! Spooky.
I think he’s running for head of the RNC.
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Who are you, and how did you get Asechrest's password?
Easy, the password was "password".
But anyway, this doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for me. Can't remember ever suggesting education was a fundamental right. Seems like a good question to pose.
It did lead me to some reading on negative vs. positive rights. I wasn't familiar with those terms.
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Keeping and bearing arms is also a Right but the government isn't handing out free weapons and ammo.
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Easy, the password was "password".
But anyway, this doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for me. Can't remember ever suggesting education was a fundamental right. Seems like a good question to pose.
It did lead me to some reading on negative vs. positive rights. I wasn't familiar with those terms.
You must have gone to public schools where they carefully avoid letting you understand such things. I didn’t know those terms either until I started educating myself as an adult.
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You must have gone to public schools where they carefully avoid letting you understand such things. I didn’t know those terms either until I started educating myself as an adult.
To be honest, I haven't heard those exact phrases either, and I haven't attended public school in 40+ years.
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You must have gone to public schools where they carefully avoid letting you understand such things. I didn’t know those terms either until I started educating myself as an adult.
No one has the power to "let me" understand something. Only I have that power.
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Easy, the password was "password".
But anyway, this doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for me. Can't remember ever suggesting education was a fundamental right. Seems like a good question to pose.
It did lead me to some reading on negative vs. positive rights. I wasn't familiar with those terms.
Curious, have you ever listened to Limbaugh?
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No one has the power to "let me" understand something. Only I have that power.
I don't want to speak for Rush, but I think that was her way of saying the educational system is biased, and not at all about teaching Natural Rights, but more teaching or at least insinuating that government grants you rights. Just a guess, but I think she knows how humans understand things.
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This is similar to an argument I use that drives leftists crazy - requiring action by someone is a compulsion akin to slavery. They agree to that until you start tacking on all the ways THEY want to compel behavior and restrain thought.
I really think they are ignorant of the failure of their thinking.
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I don't want to speak for Rush, but I think that was her way of saying the educational system is biased, and not at all about teaching Natural Rights, but more teaching or at least insinuating that government grants you rights. Just a guess, but I think she knows how humans understand things.
Yep that was it.
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“Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. . . . Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." --Sam Seaborne, West Wing”
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“Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. . . . Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." --Sam Seaborne, West Wing”
The U.S. spends more per student than any other country. The AFT and NEA have destroyed our schools. We spend money, but do not get results as we are too busy worrying about PC, Diversity, Multi Culturalism, fake "Inclusion", and pushing the Progressive agenda.
By Investopedia Updated Jun 25, 2019
The United States spends more money educating its young people than any other nation, according to Education at a Glance 2017, the most recent study from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), which compiles educational data from nations across the globe each year. In 2014, the U.S. spent an average of $12,157 per student on elementary and secondary education, over 30% more than the OECD average of $9,419. College spending, including technical schools and universities, was nearly $30,000, 75% more than the average spending of other countries in the OECD. Total U.S. spending averaged $16,268 per student, 51% more than the average for all of the countries included in the OECD study.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-country-spends-most-education.asp
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The U.S. spends more per student than any other country. The AFT and NEA have destroyed our schools. We spend money, but do not get results as we are too busy worrying about PC, Diversity, Multi Culturalism, fake "Inclusion", and pushing the Progressive agenda.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-country-spends-most-education.asp
I worked inside a public school system and I know this to be true. I was in engineering and construction. We had to take direction from a group called "programmers" which was a department consisting entirely of liberal females, and it was they who decided, along with the state education board, what courses would be taught and how buildings were to be designed to meet their curriculum plan. All this in accordance with federal mandates of course. Together it was 100% government control on all levels. Very little parents, no church, no business people. The public education system has become a defacto indoctrination camp for pro-big government progressive ideas.
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I worked inside a public school system and I know this to be true. I was in engineering and construction. We had to take direction from a group called "programmers" which was a department consisting entirely of liberal females, and it was they who decided, along with the state education board, what courses would be taught and how buildings were to be designed to meet their curriculum plan. All this in accordance with federal mandates of course. Together it was 100% government control on all levels. Very little parents, no church, no business people. The public education system has become a defacto indoctrination camp for pro-big government progressive ideas.
I’m so glad my wife, my daughter, and I each went through 12 years of catholic schools.
A friend of ours was a Spanish teacher at Charlotte Catholic High School. She moved to Myers Park HS in Charlotte, which was I believe the top HS in the Charlotte Mecklenberg high school system, for materially increased pay and opportunity.
At CCHS parent teacher conferences, the school was crawling with parents, and you usually had to wait in line to talk to the teachers. Parental involvement was enormous.
At MPHS, she would have maybe one or two student’s parents show up for parent teacher conferences. Parental involvement was nil. She was also threatened 4 times by students including twice in the parking lot.
She returned to CCHS for less pay but a safer and more fulfilling career where people actually gave a shit.
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I’m so glad my wife, my daughter, and I each went through 12 years of catholic schools.
A friend of ours was a Spanish teacher at Charlotte Catholic High School. She moved to Myers Park HS in Charlotte, which was I believe the top HS in the Charlotte Mecklenberg high school system, for materially increased pay and opportunity.
At CCHS parent teacher conferences, the school was crawling with parents, and you usually had to wait in line to talk to the teachers. Parental involvement was enormous.
At MPHS, she would have maybe one or two student’s parents show up for parent teacher conferences. Parental involvement was nil. She was also threatened 4 times by students including twice in the parking lot.
She returned to CCHS for less pay but a safer and more fulfilling career where people actually gave a shit.
It's amazing how much more people appreciate stuff when they pay for it.
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Yep that was it.
But what you said is not true. Each of us chooses to understand or not. Or to take off the blinders that others would wish we wore. Granted, kids are impressionable.
PS - I have kids in public school. They teach natural rights.
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But what you said is not true. Each of us chooses to understand or not. Or to take off the blinders that others would wish we wore. Granted, kids are impressionable.
PS - I have kids in public school. They teach natural rights.
Including the Natural Right protected by the Second Amendment?
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But what you said is not true. Each of us chooses to understand or not. Or to take off the blinders that others would wish we wore. Granted, kids are impressionable.
PS - I have kids in public school. They teach natural rights.
I phrased it badly. Instead of saying “let them understand it” I meant “expose them to it”. The idea was simply never presented to me in school.
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I phrased it badly. Instead of saying “let them understand it” I meant “expose them to it”. The idea was simply never presented to me in school.
Can you ask him if it includes the Natural Right protected by the Second Amendment. He seems to be ignoring me. :)