PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on September 22, 2016, 06:11:51 AM
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https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1247448632014855/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
;D ;D ;D
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You can make anyone appear idiotic with the right questions and carefully edited footage. Unfortunately, I am guilty to marginalizing Trump supporters, which I truly shouldn't do. There are lots of people supporting the reality star and real estate magnate for lots of different reasons. Some those reasons are utterly deplorable, but the majority truly are not, and the majority of his supporters are making their own political statement for their own reasons. They should be praised rather than condemned. They're doing far more to contribute to the public discourse in the US than I.
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Well, I don't think they're dumb, so does that make them not dumb? I think they're frustrated, aggravated, disenfranchised, insulted and mocked but I don't think they are dumb.
A little short, but a good read: http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/trump-white-blue-collar-supporters (http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/trump-white-blue-collar-supporters)
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Well, I don't think they're dumb, so does that make them not dumb? I think they're frustrated, aggravated, disenfranchised, insulted and mocked but I don't think they are dumb.
I do take exception to the bolded part. These folks have the same right to vote as I. If they really things need changing they can run for public office. They may be a lot of things, but disenfranchised just isn't one of them.
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I do take exception to the bolded part. These folks have the same right to vote as I. If they really things need changing they can run for public office. They may be a lot of things, but disenfranchised just isn't one of them.
Did you read the Mother Jones article?
They are voting for Trump because he represents, even if ephemerally, an elected official who might be different enough to actually do something pragmatic. In case you haven't noticed, elected officials have been letting us down in spades.
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Did you read the Mother Jones article?
They are voting for Trump because he represents, even if ephemerally, an elected official who might be different enough to actually do something pragmatic. In case you haven't noticed, elected officials have been letting us down in spades.
I disagree violently. Economically we are no longer looking over a chasm, and the gains have even reached poor, albeit belatedly. While the world have become somewhat more turbulent we are only involved superficially, and are not wholesale wasting our treasure and youth on struggles not our own. Even though there is an uptick in terror-inspired attacks you are still far more likely to die of old age. While there has been rioting in a number of American cities African Americans are actually doing better than they have in decades, and have largely closed the gap they have with the rest of America. America is peaceful and quite prosperous, and Americans are too dumb to realize it. Or perhaps we're just like the proverbial Adam and Eve, and when we find ourselves in a paradise the first thing we do is try and get ourselves kicked the hell out.
There are certainly pockets of despair in America, but there always have been and likely always will be.
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I disagree violently. Economically we are no longer looking over a chasm, and the gains have even reached poor, albeit belatedly.
Gains???
If you think there have been gains during the Obama administration then you're not doing the math.
Jun 2-2013 Economically, Could Obama Be America's Worst President? (http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/06/02/economically-could-obama-be-americas-worst-president/#3cc3e4ef30f5)
Jan, 2015 - Middle class decline looms over final years of Obama presidency (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-economy-idUSKBN0KR0HD20150118)
May, 2016 - How Obama’s Economy Spawned Trump (http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-obamas-economy-spawned-trump-1462313951)
If you read through these and other articles like them then you'll find out that on Obama's watch the average income of middle class families is down $1,600. That is on top of 11.17% inflation over his years in office. And taxes are higher.
By what measure can anyone call this a win?
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Gains???
If you think there have been gains during the Obama administration then you're not doing the math.
Jun 2-2013 Economically, Could Obama Be America's Worst President? (http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/06/02/economically-could-obama-be-americas-worst-president/#3cc3e4ef30f5)
Jan, 2015 - Middle class decline looms over final years of Obama presidency (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-economy-idUSKBN0KR0HD20150118)
May, 2016 - How Obama’s Economy Spawned Trump (http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-obamas-economy-spawned-trump-1462313951)
If you read through these and other articles like them then you'll find out that on Obama's watch the average income of middle class families is down $1,600. That is on top of 11.17% inflation over his years in office. And taxes are higher.
By what measure can anyone call this a win?
This is utter nonsense. When Obama took over the nation we were in the middle of the housing crisis. There was a real possibility we could slide into out and out depression. If you really think we're not better off than that now you've a screw loose somewhere.
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This is utter nonsense. When Obama took over the nation we were in the middle of the housing crisis. There was a real possibility we could slide into out and out depression. If you really think we're not better off than that now you've a screw loose somewhere.
I take it you've never, ever studied economics. It shows.
Instead of getting your economic lessons from MSNBC, try doing some actual research using real numbers. This country is on the verge of several breakdowns that are just teetering right now, and Obama is just trying to kick the can down the road for the next guy to deal with it.
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This is utter nonsense. When Obama took over the nation we were in the middle of the housing crisis. There was a real possibility we could slide into out and out depression. If you really think we're not better off than that now you've a screw loose somewhere.
I'm just looking at the data. $1,600 less income says we haven't really recovered. Low end jobs added in the face of shrinking middle class jobs says we haven't really recovered.
You work in a sheltered part of the economy. I'm not sure you'd recognize hard times unless grant money starts getting cut. I used to work in higher education too, I know how it works.
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I take it you've never, ever studied economics. It shows.
Any you have?
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Any you have?
Yep.
It pays to know this and stay on top of these things especially when one has substantial investment holdings. I'm not putting my portfolio in the hands of someone else and let them manage it, that's how you eventually get screwed. Nor will I sit back and let the MSM tell me "all is well" and "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
If you think this country and it's economy is healthy then you haven't been paying attention. We are teetering and the debt is running away under a President who has created more debt than every other president combined.
Why do you believe interest rates are being kept artificially low? Any idea why the stock market is 18400 today and what drives that? Have you paid any attention to China's growing debt problem and how it relates to the US? How about why the US inflation numbers are much lower than the actual inflation?
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Well professor, I've studied economics, and finance. Ever hear of the Wharton School? That's where I got my Masters, and that's where the Donald went for his under grad degree. We are worse off than we were in 2008 overall. Unemployment is much higher than stated. Look at the labor participation rates. Do you think negative GDP growth is good? Well that is what we have. Interest rates are at HISTORIC LOWS which shows a very, very weak economy, yet you believe Obama and his agency minions lies. You are very easily fooled.
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Well professor, I've studied economics, and finance. Ever hear of the Wharton School? That's where I got my Masters, and that's where the Donald went for his under grad degree. We are worse off than we were in 2008 overall. Unemployment is much higher than stated. Look at the labor participation rates. Do you think negative GDP growth is good? Well that is what we have. Interest rates are at HISTORIC LOWS which shows a very, very weak economy, yet you believe Obama and his agency minions lies. You are very easily fooled.
Sorry, the vast majority of Economists disagree with you. Hey, I admit this isn't my bag. In order to try and cure cancer I had to skip the finance degree. But you guys are so heavily ideologically motivated that anything Obama does has to be horrible, and anything any Republican does has to be wonderful. I don't recall anyone sounding the alarm in the old Spin zone around 2008. According to the conservatives then W could do no wrong.
Most economic indictors are up, and the unemployment rate is as low as I've ever seen it. The real difference is 20 years ago the jobs were stable, paid a lot and included a fairly generous retirement. Now those jobs are gone, and in their place are jobs that don't pay as well and aren't as stable. But the jobs are there. Get some specialized training in engineering or medicine and the jobs are everywhere. My charges are not finding difficulty finding work, I can tell you.
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Sorry, the vast majority of Economists disagree with you. Hey, I admit this isn't my bag. In order to try and cure cancer I had to skip the finance degree. But you guys are so heavily ideologically motivated that anything Obama does has to be horrible, and anything any Republican does has to be wonderful. I don't recall anyone sounding the alarm in the old Spin zone around 2008. According to the conservatives then W could do no wrong.
Most economic indictors are up, and the unemployment rate is as low as I've ever seen it. The real difference is 20 years ago the jobs were stable, paid a lot and included a fairly generous retirement. Now those jobs are gone, and in their place are jobs that don't pay as well and aren't as stable. But the jobs are there. Get some specialized training in engineering or medicine and the jobs are everywhere. My charges are not finding difficulty finding work, I can tell you.
Breathtaking ignorance at it's best.
So if unemployment is, as you say "as low as I've ever seen it", then why are 92+ million people out of the workforce, and why is unemployment/welfare claims at record levels? Why is the LPR (Labor Participation Rate) at a low of 62.2%?
Also in your pearl of wisdom "Most economic indictors are up" can you explain why the GDP has been the worse under Obama than any president since Hoover? Surely this robust economy in your fantasy land would have at least a 3.0 GDP, right?
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I do take exception to the bolded part. These folks have the same right to vote as I. If they really things need changing they can run for public office. They may be a lot of things, but disenfranchised just isn't one of them.
True. There are very very few actual disenfranchised people in this country. But that never stops liberals from mouthing off about it.
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(http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/15172/2016/01/600x450/civilian_labor_force_participa_0_1452681296.jpg)
(http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/15172/2016/01/600x450/median_household_income_chart_3_1452681293.jpg)
(http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/15172/2016/01/600x450/food_stamp_chart_2_1452681294.jpg)
(http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/15172/2016/01/600x450/federal_debt_1_1452681295.jpg)
(http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/15172/2016/01/600x450/student_loan_debt_chart_4_1452681291.jpg)
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(Sarcasm)
Wow!!, look at those charts! This economy under BHO is rocking!
(Now we await the perfesser to come in and tell us those charts are obviously wrong)
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We are in a RECESSION economy but it is being hidden by the Feds. People like Steingar who have tenure, and are in their little white towers don't get it. They don't have economic, nor financial knowledge.
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Can't argue the numbers on the charts. What do they look like if you used a 20 year timeframe rather than 7?
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We are in a RECESSION economy but it is being hidden by the Feds. People like Steingar who have tenure, and are in their little white towers don't get it. They don't have economic, nor financial knowledge.
OK, I'm willing to be convinced! So, what metrics would you like to use so we can measure the recession? There's a multitude of them out there. How would you like to account for all the conditions out there that the President has no control over? Things like the vastly increased interconnected global economy, demographics, property values, consumer credit, commodity prices (including energy) and foreign exchange rates to name a few.
Is the economy booming - certainly not. A recession? Like I said, I'm willing to be convinced with some facts.
BTW - I think you sell Steingar short - but you already know that! ;)
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The definition of a recession is a drop in the GDP over two consecutive quarters. Obviously that hasn't happened for several years. A recession ends when economic indicators recover to their previous levels.
But I've never liked GDP as a measure of affluence of the people because it measure total economic activity and that does not correspond to the people having money. To give an extreme example, if the government raised taxes by 5% every year, the GDP would rise for a long time, but would the people be better off?
Instead, I like to use a more relevant number like household income. If I look at the household income adjusted for the CPI, it peaked in 2007 then kept going down until 2012. 2013 and 2015 were the only up years since 2007. As you can see in the graph below, also from the Fed, household income has not recovered to the the 2007 level yet. It was in a recession for 5 years. It has not reached the pre-recession level and therefore the recession of household income has not officially ended yet. 2016 may bring good news in that regard, but the news hasn't happened yet. Ergo, we are still in a recessionary economy for household incomes.
By contrast, if you compare our GDP with household incomes over the same time, the stark picture of the "jobless recovery" is very apparent. Despite the GDP rising, that did not translate to higher incomes for households, so we all remained in a recession which might have just ended. Maybe.
But you can only ever see it in the rear view mirror.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1385.0;attach=267;image)
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(sarcasm)
So what would he know???
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/5138176700001/david-stockman-economy-is-on-the-edge-of-ruin/?#sp=show-clips
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Jobless recovery does sound apt, but that's just the nature of the economy. We're still either the number one or two manufacturing economy in the world, its just these days we manufacture with robots. There are fewer factory jobs you can maintain with a high school education,and many of those are now in the South under rate aegis of foreign manufacturers. Gobs of manufacturing jobs just aren't coming back no matter who's in charge.
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Jobless recovery does sound apt, but that's just the nature of the economy. We're still either the number one or two manufacturing economy in the world, its just these days we manufacture with robots. There are fewer factory jobs you can maintain with a high school education,and many of those are now in the South under rate aegis of foreign manufacturers. Gobs of manufacturing jobs just aren't coming back no matter who's in charge.
The communists lie...The prediction that increasing technology will require less hours of work is true. But they didn't tell anyone that less hours of work required doesn't translate to more leisure time, it translates to unemployment.
The worker's life of leisure will never come about until we reach a state where there are no shortages and everyone can just have whatever they want. We have to reach that point in order to break out of the economic rules that govern us. Until then, supply and demand will continue to be the rule by which resources are allocated.
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Jobless recovery does sound apt, but that's just the nature of the economy. We're still either the number one or two manufacturing economy in the world, its just these days we manufacture with robots. There are fewer factory jobs you can maintain with a high school education,and many of those are now in the South under rate aegis of foreign manufacturers. Gobs of manufacturing jobs just aren't coming back no matter who's in charge.
I posted in another thread about the lack of trades people these days.
As someone else mentioned, the class of people that used to work in the trades, now work at Starbucks because their huge student loans that paid for their liberal arts degrees can't get them a job outside of places like Starbucks.
As a country, I believe we have plenty of good jobs for skilled people. But those jobs do take a lot of hard work and physical labor. Most people, it seems, would rather rely on government assistance and/or minimum wage jobs.
If I were younger, I would start a company that offers home-owners skilled services. I would start by hiring the very best tradespeople at a high wage and hire as many people as I could that were willing to learn those trades. The highly paid tradesmen would act as high paid workers, but more importantly they would be training the younger people. I would hire the new ones out at low pay (because that is all many people need and desire), and as they grow their skills, I would hire them out at higher rates, because many people (like me) are willing to pay premium prices for quality work.
Someone could call me and say they want their barn painted. I would ask them if they want the $10/hour guy or the $45/hour guy.
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I disagree violently. Economically we are no longer looking over a chasm, and the gains have even reached poor, albeit belatedly. While the world have become somewhat more turbulent we are only involved superficially, and are not wholesale wasting our treasure and youth on struggles not our own. Even though there is an uptick in terror-inspired attacks you are still far more likely to die of old age. While there has been rioting in a number of American cities African Americans are actually doing better than they have in decades, and have largely closed the gap they have with the rest of America. America is peaceful and quite prosperous, and Americans are too dumb to realize it. Or perhaps we're just like the proverbial Adam and Eve, and when we find ourselves in a paradise the first thing we do is try and get ourselves kicked the hell out.
There are certainly pockets of despair in America, but there always have been and likely always will be.
You are deeply delusional. Go back on your medication.