Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 10:28:23 AM
"But some Republicans leaders and elected officials cling to the fantasy that uniting around Trump — if he is just short of the nomination — is the only way to save the party from splitting apart. That is the political equivalent of staying in an abusive marriage for the sake of the children.
"Wisconsin voters have given mainstream Republicans a chance to wiggle out of their fatal embrace of Trump. It would be tragedy for both the GOP and the nation if they lack the courage to take it."
- See more at: http://www.rollcall.com/news/wisconsin-gave-gop-room-escape-trump?utm_name=newsletters&utm_source=rollcallnewsalerts&utm_medium=email#sthash.uv9kdxYo.dpuf
Post by: pilot_dude on April 07, 2016, 10:49:38 AM
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 10:50:56 AM
The republicans won't win another POTUS election in the next 4 cycles, if ever. Bank it.
That's starting to look like a reality given just how bad the party is and has been managed.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 10:55:47 AM
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 10:58:52 AM
We are doomed. The Democrats will get to appoint 3 - 4 Supreme Court justices. Then kiss our rights good bye.We're doomed only if we quit. I refuse to quit.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 11:02:10 AM
We're doomed only if we quit. I refuse to quit.
I'm not quitting. I just think the Republicans are so messed up they can't win.
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 11:19:08 AM
We are doomed. The Democrats will get to appoint 3 - 4 Supreme Court justices. Then kiss our rights good bye.Only doomed if Trump ends up with the nomination.
Note the latest AP poll:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfdW6dAUMAAal3j.jpg)
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 11:21:16 AM
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
This election is a REALITY TV show, STARRING DONALD TRUMP.FTFY.
I said this when he first joined the race last summer. This is all about building the Trump brand. Nothing more.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 11:31:31 AM
FTFY.
I said this when he first joined the race last summer. This is all about building the Trump brand. Nothing more.
I agree. If he is the nominee we will get Hillary in the White House.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 11:34:16 AM
I agree. If he is the nominee we will get Hillary in the White House.
If Cruz is the nominee Hillary is a sure bet. And if the GOP inserts someone like Ryan, get use to saying "President Clinton".
Face it, the RNC has launched several torpedoes without safety's and they are coming back around locked on and headed straight for them.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 11:40:47 AM
If Cruz is the nominee Hillary is a sure bet. And if the GOP inserts someone like Ryan, get use to saying "President Clinton".
Face it, the RNC has launched several torpedoes without safety's and they are coming back around locked on and headed straight for them.
I think Cruz has a better shot than Trump. If the Republicans insert somebody we are also doomed, so I agree with you. I think we are screwed no matter what.
Trump can NOT win. He is too much of a loose cannon.
Post by: Mr Pou on April 07, 2016, 11:42:54 AM
The republicans won't win another POTUS election in the next 4 cycles, if ever. Bank it.
I was going to click on like, but I don't like this. However, I agree. We're a dying breed, and will soon go the way of the dinosaur.
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 11:46:48 AM
FTFY.Yep, and if he wins the WH, then he's stuck having to put all his assets in a blind-trust for 4 years. If he loses, he's free to monetize his brand capital.
I said this when he first joined the race last summer. This is all about building the Trump brand. Nothing more.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 11:50:22 AM
I think Cruz has a better shot than Trump. If the Republicans insert somebody we are also doomed, so I agree with you. I think we are screwed no matter what.
Trump can NOT win. He is too much of a loose cannon.
Cruz can't win the general because he cannot get the demographics. His base is far right ideologues and religious zealots and there are not enough of them to give him a majority. He has problems attracting independents and moderate democrats will have nothing to do with him.
And Hillary and the DNC will rip him to shreds in the general.
Post by: bflynn on April 07, 2016, 12:32:18 PM
If Cruz is the nominee Hillary is a sure bet.
The only way I think you could believe what you say is either that you know it's a lie but you don't care OR you just aren't informed / letting your personal judgement get in the way of seeing the truth. The Cruz / Hillary race is a tight one, pretty consistently withing a couple of points. But the real race hasn't even started yet. There is a lot of time before November and a lot of stuff that is going to happen between now and then. For example, if the Justice Dept is forced to indict Hillary then she takes an even bigger tumble than she already has and Cruz probably goes ahead. There are debates to have and questions to be answered about a lot of things.
Cruz / Hillary is nothing like a sure bet.
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 12:34:27 PM
Cruz can't win the general because he cannot get the demographics.As opposed to your boy who has a 69% unfavourable rating, including 56% "Very unfavourable" rating.
Post by: bflynn on April 07, 2016, 12:36:45 PM
His base is far right ideologues and religious zealots
Actually his base is more middle of the road liberals (with a lower case L) / non-Libertarian Party libertarians. I'm a slightly right of center moderate and between the two I am firmly in favor of Cruz. When I say say slightly right, I mean by a point or two and sometimes I land left of center depending on the day and my mood. Noodle that - your girl doesn't have the middle.
The only thing I can think of that might get me to vote for the she-witch would be Trump running against her.
You are wishing with your wisher. You'll get a lot further by thinking with your thinker. Good advice for flying too.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 12:38:23 PM
The only way I think you could believe what you say is either that you know it's a lie but you don't care OR you just aren't informed / letting your personal judgement get in the way of seeing the truth. The Cruz / Hillary race is a tight one, pretty consistently withing a couple of points. But the real race hasn't even started yet. There is a lot of time before November and a lot of stuff that is going to happen between now and then. For example, if the Justice Dept is forced to indict Hillary then she takes an even bigger tumble than she already has and Cruz probably goes ahead. There are debates to have and questions to be answered about a lot of things.
Cruz / Hillary is nothing like a sure bet.
It will be hard, if not impossible to run and get elected a far right wing Ideologue that's also a religious zealot. Cruz couldn't even get the evangelicals in the south to support him. He strikes out with Independents and moderate democrats.
Do you honestly believe he could get elected with just partial evangelical support and far right wing support?
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 12:39:47 PM
Actually his base is more middle of the road liberals (with a lower case L) / non-Libertarian Party libertarians.
You actually believe this? ::) :o
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 01:19:14 PM
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 01:27:07 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/would-cruz-just-be-a-less-embarrassing-loser/2016/04/06/6abe18ba-fc11-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/would-cruz-just-be-a-less-embarrassing-loser/2016/04/06/6abe18ba-fc11-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html)A Trumpkin calling anyone else a sore loser is pretty ironic!
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 01:48:10 PM
Cruz can't win the general because he cannot get the demographics. His base is far right ideologues and religious zealots and there are not enough of them to give him a majority. He has problems attracting independents and moderate democrats will have nothing to do with him.And these are a sure shot at electoral victory:
And Hillary and the DNC will rip him to shreds in the general.
Trump's negatives hit 60%.
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/188936/trump-negative-image.aspx
Washington Post-ABC News poll:
Trump unfavorable with:
Overall - 67%
Independents - 64%
White women - 68%
White college graduates - 74%
Moderates - 75%
Ages 18-34 - 80%
African Americans - 80%
Hispanics - 85%
Non-college whites - 52%
Conservatives - 53%
White evangelical Protestants - 56%
White men - 51%
Trump doesn't even have the white men block nailed down.
Winning!
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 01:52:40 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/275496-hatch-potential-for-ryan-to-be-drafted-at-convention
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 01:53:51 PM
It will be hard, if not impossible to run and get elected a far right wing Ideologue that's also a religious zealot. Cruz couldn't even get the evangelicals in the south to support him. He strikes out with Independents and moderate democrats.You are creating a fallacy that ONLY people of certain voting blocks will vote for that candidate in a two man race. It doesn't work that way.
Do you honestly believe he could get elected with just partial evangelical support and far right wing support?
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 02:03:48 PM
You are creating a fallacy that ONLY people of certain voting blocks will vote for that candidate in a two man race. It doesn't work that way.
You are delusional to think a far right ideologue that is a religious zealot could win a general election.
Post by: Little Joe on April 07, 2016, 02:08:55 PM
I think Cruz has a better shot than Trump. If the Republicans insert somebody we are also doomed, so I agree with you. I think we are screwed no matter what.I'm starting to agree with you. I think Trump supporters are more likely to vote for Cruz than Cruz voters would be to vote for Trump. I think that's a shame, but it is probably reality.
Trump can NOT win. He is too much of a loose cannon.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 02:19:34 PM
I'm starting to agree with you. I think Trump supporters are more likely to vote for Cruz than Cruz voters would be to vote for Trump. I think that's a shame, but it is probably reality.
I don't see Trump supporters voting Cruz. I do see them going home and sitting out the election which gives it to Hillary.
Any way you cut it, 2016 is the year the RNC will go down in flames.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 02:27:42 PM
You are delusional to think a far right ideologue that is a religious zealot could win a general election.I realize the existence of people who have religious faith makes you want to run off to your safe zone and cradle your blankie, but most people are able to move beyond hating people just because of their beliefs, and vote for the best person running.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 02:29:03 PM
I don't see Trump supporters voting Cruz. I do see them going home and sitting out the election which gives it to Hillary.Which perfectly demonstrates that Trump supporters have the same emotional age (about 6 or 7) as their candidate.
Any way you cut it, 2016 is the year the RNC will go down in flames.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 02:40:05 PM
Which perfectly demonstrates that Trump supporters have the same emotional age (about 6 or 7) as their candidate.
No, it demonstrates that ideologues that are religious zealots make poor choices for presidential candidates.
Post by: Little Joe on April 07, 2016, 02:42:48 PM
Which perfectly demonstrates that Trump supporters have the same emotional age (about 6 or 7) as their candidate.Well, what do you think most Cruz supporters will do if Trump gets the nod? Jeff would probably vote for Hillary. For one thing he would not want to miss his first chance to vote and he already said Hillary would be better than Trump.
I"m not sure what you would do, but I think you'd either abstain, or vote for Trump rather than handing it to the Ds, but I'm not sure.
Post by: Mase on April 07, 2016, 02:46:26 PM
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 02:49:44 PM
Well, what do you think most Cruz supporters will do if Trump gets the nod? Jeff would probably vote for Hillary. For one thing he would not want to miss his first chance to vote and he already said Hillary would be better than Trump.
Nailed that one.
I"m not sure what you would do, but I think you'd either abstain, or vote for Trump rather than handing it to the Ds, but I'm not sure.
He would sit at home, and of course help elect Hillary.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 02:53:48 PM
I still haven't figured out how Cruz qualifies as a "religious zealot." (Some) people speak of him as if that is a given, but I don't see it.
Interestingly enough he hides his true religion (Pentecostal) because it may hurt him with votes. His father does the whole Pentecostal bit (speaking in tongues, etc) and I'm sure sooner or later a video will emerge of Cruz doing the same. Who knows, maybe when he gets t W. Virginia he'll dance around with snakes.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
Well, what do you think most Cruz supporters will do if Trump gets the nod? Jeff would probably vote for Hillary. For one thing he would not want to miss his first chance to vote and he already said Hillary would be better than Trump.I would vote for the Republican candidate. Trump may be a fuck-up in office, but we know with absolute certainty the type of far left justices a president Hillary would put in the bench in four years.
I"m not sure what you would do, but I think you'd either abstain, or vote for Trump rather than handing it to the Ds, but I'm not sure.
The Second Amendment as an individual right only won by a single vote in Heller - four liberal justices said it was not an individual right. What would happen to the 2nd Amendment ("Two Amendment" for Trump) with additional liberal justices?
Because most Cruz supporters value Ted's devotion to the Constitution, they would follow suit with me, the #NeverTrump crowd notwithstanding.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 02:57:13 PM
I still haven't figured out how Cruz qualifies as a "religious zealot." (Some) people speak of him as if that is a given, but I don't see it.Agreed. To some, praying or speaking of God outside the four walls of a church brands you a religious zealot, with no chance of redemption from the anti-God orthodoxy.
Post by: Number7 on April 07, 2016, 02:57:38 PM
Cruz can't win the general because he cannot get the demographics. His base is far right ideologues and religious zealots and there are not enough of them to give him a majority. He has problems attracting independents and moderate democrats will have nothing to do with him.
And Hillary and the DNC will rip him to shreds in the general.
Sounds exactly what RINO's said in 1980 about Ronald Reagan.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 02:58:41 PM
I would vote for the Republican candidate. Trump may be a fuck-up in office, but we know with absolute certainty the type of far left justices a president Hillary would put in the bench in four years.
The Second Amendment as an individual right only won by a single vote in Heller - four liberal justices said it was not an individual right. What would happen to the 2nd Amendment ("Two Amendment" for Trump) with additional liberal justices?
Because most Cruz supporters value Ted's devotion to the Constitution, they would follow suit with me, the #NeverTrump crowd notwithstanding.
This is the biggest issue for me. If a Dem wins, the court will be far left for many decades. They will neuter the 2A the first chance they get. We'll be lucky to posses a flintlock.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 02:58:56 PM
Sounds exactly what RINO's said in 1980 about Ronald Reagan.Precisely.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 03:00:42 PM
Sounds exactly what RINO's said in 1980 about Ronald Reagan.
Actually in 1980 Reagan appealed to independents and moderate Democrats, which were called "Reagan Democrats". That's what propelled him to a landslide victory.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 03:01:05 PM
Agreed. To some, praying or speaking of God outside the four walls of a church brands you a religious zealot, with no chance of redemption from the anti-God orthodoxy.
The media has branded Cruz a religious zealot. Watch what happens if he is nominated. They will ratchet it up several notches.
Post by: Number7 on April 07, 2016, 03:02:10 PM
Actually in 1980 Reagan appealed to independents and moderate Democrats, which were called "Reagan Democrats". That's what propelled him to a landslide victory.
Actually, Ronald Regan appealed ACROSS THE BOARD to lots of people, including hard core conservatives who liked his anti-communist radio programs from the sixities.
Post by: Number7 on April 07, 2016, 03:02:56 PM
The media has branded Cruz a religious zealot. Watch what happens if he is nominated. They will ratchet it up several notches.
The longer I watch this election cycle, the more I am convinced that the traditional media has lost their grip on the majority, and are playing to the far fringe and doing it rather poorly.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 03:07:25 PM
Actually, Ronald Regan appealed ACROSS THE BOARD to lots of people, including hard core conservatives who liked his anti-communist radio programs from the sixities.
Exactly. Cruz does not have the same appeal. Democrats would rather stick a fork in their eye than even consider Cruz and moderates are turned off by his religious zealotry.
Cruz's plan as was discribed to Rush Limbaugh over lunch a couple of years ago was to get all of the evangelicals to support him and he felt that would give him the election. However he lost the evangelical vote big time across the south, which was suppose to be his strong point. Even they for the majority aren't buying into him.
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 05:52:36 PM
Well, what do you think most Cruz supporters will do if Trump gets the nod? Jeff would probably vote for Hillary. For one thing he would not want to miss his first chance to vote and he already said Hillary would be better than Trump.Except I've said explicitly that I'll not vote for Hillary, or Trump, because I refuse to vote for Democrats. I'll vote third party or write in. Probably SMOD.
Post by: Mase on April 07, 2016, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 06:24:23 PM
Apparently, Rudy Giuliani has now endorsed Trump.
Interesting.
Post by: nddons on April 07, 2016, 06:30:22 PM
Interesting.Cruz doesn't have his own Cruz Tower in NYC from which you can get NY "benefits" if you know what I mean.
Post by: Lucifer on April 07, 2016, 06:45:34 PM
Interesting.
Cruz doesn't have his own Cruz Tower in NYC from which you can get NY "benefits" if you know what I mean.
Cruz shit in his mess kit when he slammed New Yorkers with his "New York Values" slip during one of the debates.
He's now having his ass handed to him by New Yorkers.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 06:56:36 PM
Cruz shit in his mess kit when he slammed New Yorkers with his "New York Values" slip during one of the debates.
He's now having his ass handed to him by New Yorkers.
Yes, he really did step in it. I am surprised that an experienced, smart politician like Cruz said that.
Post by: Mase on April 07, 2016, 06:57:08 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/07/rudolph-giuliani-to-vote-for-but-not-endorse-donald-trump/ (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/07/rudolph-giuliani-to-vote-for-but-not-endorse-donald-trump/)
Post by: Dav8or on April 07, 2016, 08:09:33 PM
I don't see Trump supporters voting Cruz. I do see them going home and sitting out the election which gives it to Hillary.
Any way you cut it, 2016 is the year the RNC will go down in flames.
Actually no, 2016 will be the year that conservatives as a cohesive voting block will go down in flames. We started this election cycle with sixteen candidates. SIX TEEN... and this is where we are now? This is the best the conservatives can do?
There is no "conservative movement". There are conservative splinter groups splintering this way and that. There is no longer enough common bond to keep conservative minded people together and focused. IMO, both Trump and Cruz are terrible choices, but it is what it is. Maybe from the ashes somebody worthy will rise up in 2020.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 08:12:59 PM
Post by: Mase on April 07, 2016, 08:15:27 PM
There is no "conservative movement". There are conservative splinter groups splintering this way and that. There is no longer enough common bond to keep conservative minded people together and focused.
Do not make the mistake of writing off conservatives just yet. We got the House in 2010, and we got the Senate in 2012. We are not done yet, not by a long shot.
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 08:24:23 PM
Do not make the mistake of writing off conservatives just yet. We got the House in 2010, and we got the Senate in 2012. We are not done yet, not by a long shot.
And a lot of Governors, and state legislatures went Republican. However Republicans are not necessarily conservative. Many are go along to get along with the Democrats, and we get more spending, and more taxes. They all want to grow the pie so they get bigger pieces of it. It's corruption.
Post by: JeffDG on April 07, 2016, 08:35:07 PM
I think Cruz is a non establishment conservative. Trump, not so much.Trump has bought and paid for the "establishment", and conservative, GMAFB
Post by: Anthony on April 07, 2016, 08:38:28 PM
Trump has bought and paid for the "establishment", and conservative, GMAFB
Could be, but they still seem to hate Trump. They dislike Cruz, they hate Trump.