PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 10, 2023, 11:16:54 AM
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country to completely fall to Islam and Sharia?
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They’re close.
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Seems to depend on what you mean by "fall". Articles that attempt to list countries that currently follow Sharia Law have only a few countries in common. These sites differ in their lists:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/sharia-law-countries (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/sharia-law-countries)
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-follow-sharia-law.html (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-follow-sharia-law.html)
https://groundreport.in/what-is-sharia-law-how-many-countries-follow-them/ (https://groundreport.in/what-is-sharia-law-how-many-countries-follow-them/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Sharia_by_country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Sharia_by_country)
In the US and many western nations the population and therefore the judiciary are mainly Christian or secular. As much as the US Constitution gets abused by the Judiciary I am relatively confident that only those aspects of Sharia that are already allowed by the Constitution would be upheld.
Of the threats to our liberties I think worries over Sharia are very low priority because there are more important threats to deal with.
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Of the threats to our liberties I think worries over Sharia are very low priority because there are more important threats to deal with.
Hear, hear! I think such fears usually reflect an underlying dislike of the Muslim religion and often a desire to suppress it.
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https://x.com/leslibless/status/1733708589686985012?s=20
https://x.com/leslibless/status/1733940426581676514?s=20
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Go ask Japan how they have dealt with the Muslim problem.
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jim and peter are suffering from wishful thinking syndrome.
Where radical islam is concerned, the threat is immediate and getting worse.
Pretending in their never ending need to pretend to be politically correct is how London has gotten so fucking screwed up.
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Go ask Japan how they have dealt with the Muslim problem.
You'll need to clarify the nature of the problem they dealt with.
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Go ask Japan how they have dealt with the Muslim problem.
But, but....they're Racist!!!
The Japanese are wise to preserve their culture. Neither us, nor the British want to preserve our largely Anglo-European culture, which has made us great and successful, Previous immigrants became "American" and assimilated. Today most don't.
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You'll need to clarify the nature of the problem they dealt with.
Other than to pander to your ego, why should he?
Reasonable people, and those not desperate to gain attention by pretending to be intellectually superior and thoughtful, when they're really just full of shit, already fully understand the problem.
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You'll need to clarify the nature of the problem they dealt with.
Oh right, I forgot, Islam is the religion of peace. Carry on. ::)
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Oh right, I forgot, Islam is the religion of peace. Carry on. ::)
Of course Jihad is an element of Islam. But how is promoting action against someone merely for their beliefs justified? Millions of Muslims go about their lives peacefully without a thought to Jihad or harming anyone.
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Of course Jihad is an element of Islam. But how is promoting action against someone merely for their beliefs justified? Millions of Muslims go about their lives peacefully without a thought to Jihad or harming anyone.
Like I stated earlier, please see how Japan deals with this.
And you're right, not all Muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are Muslim. ;)
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Like I stated earlier, please see how Japan deals with this.
And you're right, not all Muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are Muslim. ;)
Ok, I checked around and you are probably relying on bogus assertions circulating on the net about Japan's policies on immigration of Muslims and the teaching of Islam. Japan has done nothing specifically for or against Muslims or Islam.
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Ok, I checked around and you are probably relying on bogus assertions circulating on the net about Japan's policies on immigration of Muslims and the teaching of Islam. Japan has done nothing specifically for or against Muslims or Islam.
Try to emigrate to Japan even with being a non Muslim and offering valuable work skills. See what happens.
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Ok, I checked around and you are probably relying on bogus assertions circulating on the net about Japan's policies on immigration of Muslims and the teaching of Islam. Japan has done nothing specifically for or against Muslims or Islam.
Not relying on bogus assertions. Japan doesn't take kindly to foreigners wanting to come into their country and demanding special treatment due to their religion, nor do the Japanese take kindly to allowing just anyone to come into their country and attempt to start changing the Japanese culture.
The Japanese have watched what has happened in Europe and the US with regards to the Muslims, and they in no way want that on their shores.
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I miss Japan. I spent 15 months assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo from 2000-2001. And yes. You conform to their culture, language, etc. Not the other way around. I also spent 12 months on Okinawa, but even though that's technically Japan, it's almost like 2 separate cultures.
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Of course Jihad is an element of Islam. But how is promoting action against someone merely for their beliefs justified? Millions of Muslims go about their lives peacefully without a thought to Jihad or harming anyone.
The problem isn’t beliefs. It’s culture, then importing many numbers to become the majority population, then proceeding to impose that culture on the native population, and getting elected to positions where you can influence policy, or simply to intimidate the native culture to begin suppressing themselves.
That’s all well and good if you want your own culture to dwindle and to watch your country become something unrecognizable. Law will follow.
It’s the normal course of our species through time, Europeans did it to the Native Americans. I’m not making a moral argument. I’m making a practical one. If you like our culture, our Constitutional Republic, where we don’t live under sharia law, might want to pay attention to population demographics. The U.S. is in no immediate danger from a fundamentalist Islam takeover and is in fact in far more danger from the left, but ignore trends to your peril.
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I miss Japan. I spent 15 months assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo from 2000-2001. And yes. You conform to their culture, language, etc. Not the other way around. I also spent 12 months on Okinawa, but even though that's technically Japan, it's almost like 2 separate cultures.
I lived and worked in Japan for 2 years.
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I lived and worked in Japan for 2 years.
I wish I took more pictures when I was there. But I do have a few when I climbed Mt. Fuji and in front of the Olympic rings where they did the downhill events. I'm too lazy too look that up right now.
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Try to emigrate to Japan even with being a non Muslim and offering valuable work skills. See what happens.
I'm well aware of Japan's monoculture. The US is more multicultural and has benefitted from that variety, IMHO. Whatever Japan does to maintain its monoculture would be inappropriate here so I don't see any lessons that can be taken from it.
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I wish I took more pictures when I was there. But I do have a few when I climbed Mt. Fuji and in front of the Olympic rings where they did the downhill events. I'm too lazy too look that up right now.
Never climbed Fuji, but saw it every day when I went outside. Never locked my car either.
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though it is very hard for intellectually blind liberals to understand, unchecked immigration brings with it damaging and explosive results.
The liberal thinks pretending to be loving and tolerant is all it takes to hold the high ground and feel important. Then one day those who hate America and Americans for their freedom to ignore the cultural / religious bindings they brought with them and refuse to caste off, start killing Americans for their thought crimes and freedoms.
muslim assholes murdering their daughters in America for imagined sins is an excellent example. muslim pshychos killing people in public places just because is another.
All the phony tolerance and inclusivity liberal have ever brought to the table is weakness, stupidity, violence, and economic ruin.... unless you think new york, san francisco, and los angelas is being bettered by the illegal alien invasion going on.
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though it is very hard for intellectually blind liberals to understand, unchecked immigration brings with it damaging and explosive results.
Natives of the American continents would likely agree.
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Natives of the American continents would likely agree.
Utter, self serving, bullshit and you know it.
Your argument is as pathetic as your reasons for making it.
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Natives of the American continents would likely agree.
I guess it depends on who you mean by "Natives of the American continents"
I wonder if people know where these so-called "natives" came from...
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I guess it depends on who you mean by "Natives of the American continents"
I wonder if people know where these so-called "natives" came from...
Did the people who were in the Americas when the Europeans arrived themselves encounter people who proceeded them when they arrived? If it was unpopulated virgin land then it doesn't matter whence they came. Unless they displaced Lizard people or something, in which case I expect descendants of Lizard People will soon come forth and demand reparations of American Indians.
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Natives of the American continents would likely agree.
As I pointed out, the original natives were supplanted by a tsunami of immigration from Northern Europe as well as African slaves. But today, the descendants of those invaders, black and white, are the new natives. We were all born here, and we have just as much right to claim America as our native land in turn. We aren’t responsible for what our ancestors did and you can’t go back and change history. It’s what humans do: migrate and if necessary, defeat and take over land and resources from weaker less developed cultures. It’s brutal but it’s nature’s way. The new immigrants (Latin Americans, Muslims and more Africans) are now trying to do it in their turn, but we have no obligation to allow them and every right to defend against it.
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Did the people who were in the Americas when the Europeans arrived themselves encounter people who proceeded them when they arrived? If it was unpopulated virgin land then it doesn't matter whence they came. Unless they displaced Lizard people or something, in which case I expect descendants of Lizard People will soon come forth and demand reparations of American Indians.
Supposedly they came over from Asia and populated unoccupied land. Just because they were the first Homo sapiens here doesn’t give their descendants any rights to take it back. Nowhere in nature does it work like that.
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I'm well aware of Japan's monoculture. The US is more multicultural and has benefitted from that variety, IMHO. Whatever Japan does to maintain its monoculture would be inappropriate here so I don't see any lessons that can be taken from it.
The lesson is screening people that could harm you and not let every poor person in looking for a handout to siphon from the productive CITIZEN in America. Our immigration policy is a very dangerous and economically draining OPEN DOOR. You cannot be that dense. ::)
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The lesson is screening people that could harm you and not let every poor person in looking for a handout to siphon from the productive CITIZEN in America. Our immigration policy is a very dangerous and economically draining OPEN DOOR. You cannot be that dense. ::)
He is.
Hate America First runs deep in liberals.
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Did the people who were in the Americas when the Europeans arrived themselves encounter people who proceeded them when they arrived? If it was unpopulated virgin land then it doesn't matter whence they came. Unless they displaced Lizard people or something, in which case I expect descendants of Lizard People will soon come forth and demand reparations of American Indians.
Grab a history book. “Native” tribes moved among all of the Americas, conquering what ever other “native” tribes were on the land that they wanted. Conquering was usually violent and permanent, as has been forever in time.
That doesn’t mean a country can’t or shouldn’t control its borders, and admit people who serve its purposes, not the purposes of the aliens.
Virtually every other country in the world controls its borders better than the US. Why is that? It’s because we have people in control who wish to subvert the US for their own gain in power (democrats) or money (republicans), all while Joe Citizen sits on the couch, hoping they die before this self-inflicted invasion comes to their doors.
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He is.
Hate America First runs deep in liberals.
I don't believe that, but Japan and most other countries do not want anybody just waltzing in like we do. It's maddening.
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I don't believe that, but Japan and most other countries do not want anybody just waltzing in like we do. It's maddening.
Yet, here we are and can do nothing about it.
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Yet, here we are and can do nothing about it.
Hey, at least we got Santos out of Congress!
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The lesson is screening people that could harm you and not let every poor person in looking for a handout to siphon from the productive CITIZEN in America. Our immigration policy is a very dangerous and economically draining OPEN DOOR.
The proposal at hand seems to be to screen based on religious beliefs. If you think that is wise then IMHo you are being naive about how that could be abused by the government. Given a choice on policy priorities, I fear the government more than I fear illegal immigrants. "We had to destroy our freedom to save it" seems to be the mantra - add ever more government selectivity.
You cannot be that dense. ::)
I sympathize with what you felt when you wrote that since I feel that way sometimes too. After decades of posting I realized it was generally counterproductive to articulate frustrations that way.
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Grab a history book.
I've already got a bunch I've read. The attached photo is a subset of the ones I've read. Some are ebooks. I've also seen excerpts of Thomas Sowell's books that includes some discussion on American Indians. It covers what you just wrote. The online Encyclopedia Britannica has plenty of free history articles that I've read. Better curated than Wikipedia.
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Here's immigration in a nutshell:
1) Everyone must enter legally. No exceptions.
2) Only admit those who have something to offer our society. For instance, highly skilled individuals. We already have an abundance of low skill workers.
3) Those who want to enter must agree to learn, or already speak english. They must also be willing to learn how our laws work. We are not interested in how it was where they came from.
4) They must be able to provide for themselves. No depending on getting into our welfare system.
5) During their time as a Permanent Legal Resident, if they commit any crimes, prompt deportation.
Think this sounds a bit too harsh? Go to almost any other country and look at their immigration requirements.
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I don't believe that, but Japan and most other countries do not want anybody just waltzing in like we do. It's maddening.
Japan is an island nation whose archipelago includes over 14,000 islands. There is no way to enter except by boat or airplane. That cuts down the problem a lot.
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Japan is an island nation whose archipelago includes over 14,000 islands. There is no way to enter except by boat or airplane. That cuts down the problem a lot.
So would a border wall with armed security. Several countries use this method, and it works well.
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Here's immigration in a nutshell:
1) Everyone must enter legally. No exceptions.
2) Only admit those who have something to offer our society. For instance, highly skilled individuals. We already have an abundance of low skill workers.
3) Those who want to enter must agree to learn, or already speak english. They must also be willing to learn how our laws work. We are not interested in how it was where they came from.
4) They must be able to provide for themselves. No depending on getting into our welfare system.
5) During their time as a Permanent Legal Resident, if they commit any crimes, prompt deportation.
Think this sounds a bit too harsh? Go to almost any other country and look at their immigration requirements.
I agree with all of that except #2. We do NOT have enough low-skilled workers THAT ARE WILLING TO WORK.
Perhaps we should allow low-skilled workers in on a quota basis. How many of them do we need after yanking subsidies and handouts for our low skilled workers that won't work for wages offered?
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I agree with all of that except #2. We do NOT have enough low-skilled workers THAT ARE WILLING TO WORK.
Perhaps we should allow low-skilled workers in on a quota basis. How many of them do we need after yanking subsidies and handouts for our low skilled workers that won't work for wages offered?
It also appears to be the case that all of Lucifer's requirements except for #2 are already the law in some form:
https://www.usa.gov/naturalization (https://www.usa.gov/naturalization)
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It also appears to be the case that all of Lucifer's requirements except for #2 are already the law in some form:
https://www.usa.gov/naturalization (https://www.usa.gov/naturalization)
Imagine that! Gee, and all we keep hearing is "we need immigration reform". How about just using the laws we have?
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Here's immigration in a nutshell:
1) Everyone must enter legally. No exceptions.
2) Only admit those who have something to offer our society. For instance, highly skilled individuals. We already have an abundance of low skill workers.
3) Those who want to enter must agree to learn, or already speak english. They must also be willing to learn how our laws work. We are not interested in how it was where they came from.
4) They must be able to provide for themselves. No depending on getting into our welfare system.
5) During their time as a Permanent Legal Resident, if they commit any crimes, prompt deportation.
Think this sounds a bit too harsh? Go to almost any other country and look at their immigration requirements.
Add they cannot emigrate from a country that holds anti-American views. That would include most of the Middle East. Oh well.
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What if you wanted to invade the US but you can't just land ships on our shores and go that route. Why not bring thousands across the open border on a daily basis and at the go time bring the all together at the place you intend to attack first. I imagine getting the weapons in place would not be too difficult. Look at the pictures and videos of those crossing the border.
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Add they cannot emigrate from a country that holds anti-American views. That would include most of the Middle East. Oh well.
I disagree. People escaping anti-American countries should be allowed to apply for entry. They may be subject to more scrutiny, but should have the opportunity to escape their shithole country. Like you can't ban everyone from leaving California and entering Florida. But you can and should ban the nutcase liberal freaks.
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I disagree. People escaping anti-American countries should be allowed to apply for entry. They may be subject to more scrutiny, but should have the opportunity to escape their shithole country. Like you can't ban everyone from leaving California and entering Florida. But you can and should ban the nutcase liberal freaks.
If they make it to Mexico they can apply for asylum in Mexico. I suppose they could apply to the U.S. from there and wait in line with all other legal applicants.
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If they make it to Mexico they can apply for asylum in Mexico. I suppose they could apply to the U.S. from there and wait in line with all other legal applicants.
Not only can they, that is what they are legally required to do, but hey, who follows the law anymore. The administration makes it up as they go.
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Not only can they, that is what they are legally required to do, but hey, who follows the law anymore. The administration makes it up as they go.
Biden canceled Trump's "remain in Mexico" policy on day 1 of his administration.
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I disagree. People escaping anti-American countries should be allowed to apply for entry. They may be subject to more scrutiny, but should have the opportunity to escape their shithole country. Like you can't ban everyone from leaving California and entering Florida. But you can and should ban the nutcase liberal freaks.
I used to agree with you, and thought all people sought freedom and liberty. Thus, I supported the Gulf War. I was wrong. Some people, when given freedom and liberty, will simply regress back to tribalism and being controlled.
We can make case-by-case decisions, such as when westernized Iranians were fleeing when the Mullahs came into power, but in general I think some people cannot accept the freedom and liberty our nation provides.
In addition, there are a lot of countries closer to where they are from which they can seek asylum. No need to cross the globe to do so.
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So would a border wall with armed security. Several countries use this method, and it works well.
Why don't we have a platoon stationed every mile along the border?
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Why don't we have a platoon stationed every mile along the border?
No need. Just have the border wall, and 20 yards or so north place a fence making a kill zone. Place signs in English and Spanish on the south side of the wall with warnings do not enter, or you will be shot.
Place snipers roughly every mile. If someone enters, drop them right there. After the first few bodies lay rotting in the sand, word will spread fast.
Problem solved.
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No need. Just have the border wall, and 20 yards or so north place a fence making a kill zone. Place signs in English and Spanish on the south side of the wall with warnings do not enter, or you will be shot.
Place snipers roughly every mile. If someone enters, drop them right there. After the first few bodies lay rotting in the sand, word will spread fast.
Problem solved.
This is exactly what we need to do. And it will never happen. This country is too pussified to actually enforce immigration law.
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No need. Just have the border wall, and 20 yards or so north place a fence making a kill zone. Place signs in English and Spanish on the south side of the wall with warnings do not enter, or you will be shot.
Place snipers roughly every mile. If someone enters, drop them right there. After the first few bodies lay rotting in the sand, word will spread fast.
Problem solved.
Half of all illegal aliens come here on valid entry visas and then overstay them indefinitely.
As to the killing wall "final solution" I happen to think punishment of a perpetrator should be proportionate to the loss inflicted on the victim. But hey, that's just my view and I realize that view makes me a member of a vanishing minority.
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Half of all illegal aliens come here on valid entry visas and then overstay them indefinitely.
As to the killing wall "final solution" I happen to think punishment of a perpetrator should be proportionate to the loss inflicted on the victim. But hey, that's just my view and I realize that view makes me a member of a vanishing minority.
We should just shoot them in the leg then. Beyond that, what is your plan to deter them Jim? I was always taught, one should not criticize without offering an alternative. Let's not forget, we've allowed a small Army of young men into the country unchallenged at this point.
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This is exactly what we need to do. And it will never happen. This country is too pussified to actually enforce immigration law.
That's not enforcing immigation law. That's emulating the Berlin Wall.
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Half of all illegal aliens come here on valid entry visas and then overstay them indefinitely.
That's why we have laws that state this is illegal, and can result in deportation. This is also why we have an agency with paid staff to find these people and deport them. Law Enforcement is also allowed by law to assist in finding these people as they ARE BREAKING LAWS.
As to the killing wall "final solution" I happen to think punishment of a perpetrator should be proportionate to the loss inflicted on the victim. But hey, that's just my view and I realize that view makes me a member of a vanishing minority.
Many countries have a zero tolerance policy on people entering illegally and breaking their laws. Why should the US be allowing what is going on right now? If the same situation was happening elsewhere, our news media and government would call it an invasion and immediately start sending them money to try to stop it.
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That's not enforcing immigation law. That's emulating the Berlin Wall.
Bullshit.
During the time of the Berlin Wall, that was put in place to keep people contained. If anyone wanted entry from the west, they could walk up and request a crossing, however citizens of the east could not do the same except for very limited circumstances.
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A country without a secure border is not a country.
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A country without a secure border is not a country.
Security does not require the use of lethal force at the slightest provocation
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I'm sure that jim and bob will be first in line to take a bullet when the invaders start shooting....
You know, libertarianism and all that bullshit.
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Security does not require the use of lethal force at the slightest provocation
Someone entering my home without permission will be met with lethal force. The country should be no different. A large number of military age males entering the country without permission is not a slight provocation.
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Nuances are lost on some
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I’ve seen the light. Shoot everyone and let God sort them out!
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Security does not require the use of lethal force at the slightest provocation
Slightest provocation??? YGTBSM. Our country is being invaded by military age men by the thousands. Add in others coming in who we have no idea of who they are, or what diseases they are carrying.
We’ve already admitted terrorist according to the government. Maybe when they start attacking inside our border you and others will admit it’s a bit more than a “slight provocation”.
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Nuances are lost on some
Projection?
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I’ve seen the light. Shoot everyone and let God sort them out!
No one gets shot unless they decide to break our laws. Or are you in favor of just letting them in first???
What is so terrible about not letting people enter illegally?
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That's not enforcing immigation law. That's emulating the Berlin Wall.
I thought the Berlin wall was there to keep people IN, not OUT.
We are not there yet, but if Biden and the Dems stay in power then we may get there. Just like people are escaping California and New York and are going to Idaho, Florida and Texas.
That's why I want a President that has a really good chance of beating them. If Trump turns out to be that guy then I will happily support him. But I'm not going to support him because I agree with him. I will only support him if I think he can win.
In this case, losing is just too destructive to allow.
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Slightest provocation??? YGTBSM. Our country is being invaded by military age men by the thousands millions. Add in others coming in who we have no idea of who they are, or what diseases they are carrying.
We’ve already admitted terrorist according to the government. Maybe when they start attacking inside our border you and others will admit it’s a bit more than a “slight provocation”.
FIFY
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This is exactly what we need to do. And it will never happen. This country is too pussified to actually enforce immigration law.
Claymores and tripwires would be my preference.
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Half of all illegal aliens come here on valid entry visas and then overstay them indefinitely.
As to the killing wall "final solution" I happen to think punishment of a perpetrator should be proportionate to the loss inflicted on the victim. But hey, that's just my view and I realize that view makes me a member of a vanishing minority.
Absurd.
Nobody comes over the Rio Grande with a valid entry visa.
What is proportionate about an invasion? Breaking into this country isn’t like speeding 12 mph over the limit.
Should we add up the number of Americans killed by illegals and use that number in determining who should be killed at the border?
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Absurd.
Nobody comes over the Rio Grande with a valid entry visa.
What is proportionate about an invasion? Breaking into this country isn’t like speeding 12 mph over the limit.
Should we add up the number of Americans killed by illegals and use that number in determining who should be killed at the border?
Leftists CONSTANTLY play with words to change the meaning of the discussion to things they can attack.
When their bullshit fails, they always revert to stupid and lame, and that's where thos two are now.
The next step will be vile and ugly.
Then threats of violence.
Libs never change their bullshit, or their methods.
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That's not enforcing immigation law. That's emulating the Berlin Wall.
No.. Berlin Wall was to keep people IN.
We need ro keep people OUT.
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<sigh>
The Berlin wall was used to keep people on one side of the wall... using deadly force.
The "keep people in" vs "keep people out" isn't relevant. But, as I said, apparently too subtle.
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<sigh>
The Berlin wall was used to keep people on one side of the wall... using deadly force.
The "keep people in" vs "keep people out" isn't relevant. But, as I said, apparently too subtle.
Keeping people in is imprisonment. Keeping people out is protecting your own sovereignty. Big difference.
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Keeping people in is imprisonment. Keeping people out is protecting your own sovereignty. Big difference.
I guess you’re not as subtle as Bob, Rush.
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We should just shoot them in the leg then. Beyond that, what is your plan to deter them Jim? I was always taught, one should not criticize without offering an alternative. Let's not forget, we've allowed a small Army of young men into the country unchallenged at this point.
Randy, since illegal immigration happens worldwide and has been around since the invention of tribal, empire, and national borders the long term solution seems to me to establish laws that mute the negative effects of those illegals who escape detection. Such as restricting public social safety nets to those people who (or their families) have previously contributed time or money to the social safety group. Or who are in immediate need of medical attention.
As to illegal immigrant young men - they've been coming across the borders for as long as I've been alive. People come because they can do unskilled farm labor. That pretty much meant young men were likely to get hired (or sent/expected to work by their families) so illegal immigration from Mexico has likely always skewed that way. By the way, it turns out the term "wetback" goes back to the 1920s and even the government used the term in 1950's "Operation Wetback". It was the largest mass deportation in American history. And yet we still have a problem, but the demographics are changing. You remember the Indian family that froze to death trying to illegally cross into the US from Canada? Similar tragedies on the southern border.
I don't know who among those reading this has ever had to kill someone - I sure haven't and hope to never be placed in that position. Maybe they can shed light on how easy or hard (emotionally or morally) it is to pick off strangers for the crime of crossing the border. I would not kill someone just for crossing our lawn. (I might yell "Get off my lawn" of course.) And except in war zones I'm not aware of any nation that has a policy of killing civilians trying to enter illegally, among other bad things. (I did find a recent case of Saudi Arabian border troops killing civilian refugees among other atrocities. It happened in a war zone but the border troops knew they were civilian refugees.)
The road to tyranny, IMHO, is having impatience with an imperfect police and justice system skewed to protect the innocent. Otherwise we end up with things like Qualified Immunity and a universal surveillance state.
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^^^^^I'm not going to quote all that. We already live in a Totalitarian Police State when it comes to treatment of legal CITIZENS, especially those that disagree with the Democrat Fascists and this invalid "Administration". Yet we allow ILLEGAL ALIENS in, many that harm us or have the potential to do great harm to us. Harsh measures are required to stop this. Measures that act as a deterrent. Letting them in and living illegally past their visa dates or just staying here without a visa isn't working. No other country does that. Why should we be different? Life jail sentences for the Cartel members and terrorists would be a start. Hard time too, not fattening them up and nice quarters like Gitmo.
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My first job as a high schooler was working at a very large evergreen nursery in Illinois. It had three divisions, nursery, potted and balled & burlapped. Summer was quite busy, potting new plants, etc. The nursery had a bunk house and in the spring the migrants came up from Mexico and worked through to fall and went back to Mexico. They had no intention of staying through the year, yet were productive while they were here. That's how it worked then. I do remember that the crew was always sparse on a Saturday after payday on Friday, they were sleeping off the drinking from the night before.
That is how I got my chance to operate the Bobcat. The Mexican that did it, suddenly left and quit showing up and I was given the chance to take his place. Learned how to mix the soil for planting and all kind of cool things. My start there was being placed in a huge group of one gallon potted plants and asked to sort them into three groups. Awesome fun, not. It did allow me to do some fun things later on while I worked there.
BTW, a mall now sits on that land.
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Though I appreciate jim's position, I fail to see any relevance to the current situation.
liberal tears and sob story arguments don't cut it against the violence perpetrated against legal citizens by illegals, that should have been denied entry, kicked out, or jailed until deportation. the hand wringing, whining liberal bullshit doesn't cut it when measured against the damage done to America because of leftist assholes and their fake tears.
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Randy, since illegal immigration happens worldwide and has been around since the invention of tribal, empire, and national borders the long term solution seems to me to establish laws that mute the negative effects of those illegals who escape detection. Such as restricting public social safety nets to those people who (or their families) have previously contributed time or money to the social safety group. Or who are in immediate need of medical attention.
As to illegal immigrant young men - they've been coming across the borders for as long as I've been alive. People come because they can do unskilled farm labor. That pretty much meant young men were likely to get hired (or sent/expected to work by their families) so illegal immigration from Mexico has likely always skewed that way. By the way, it turns out the term "wetback" goes back to the 1920s and even the government used the term in 1950's "Operation Wetback". It was the largest mass deportation in American history. And yet we still have a problem, but the demographics are changing. You remember the Indian family that froze to death trying to illegally cross into the US from Canada? Similar tragedies on the southern border.
I don't know who among those reading this has ever had to kill someone - I sure haven't and hope to never be placed in that position. Maybe they can shed light on how easy or hard (emotionally or morally) it is to pick off strangers for the crime of crossing the border. I would not kill someone just for crossing our lawn. (I might yell "Get off my lawn" of course.) And except in war zones I'm not aware of any nation that has a policy of killing civilians trying to enter illegally, among other bad things. (I did find a recent case of Saudi Arabian border troops killing civilian refugees among other atrocities. It happened in a war zone but the border troops knew they were civilian refugees.)
The road to tyranny, IMHO, is having impatience with an imperfect police and justice system skewed to protect the innocent. Otherwise we end up with things like Qualified Immunity and a universal surveillance state.
Trump’s policies were working much better than Biden’s. What I am impatient with is not our justice system skewed to protect the innocent. I’m impatient with the evil Democrats who are deliberately destroying our culture and economy by allowing millions of unvetted illegals to just waltz in, and the cowardly Republicans who won’t do anything about it. They should have impeached Joe Biden on day 2 of his administration after he reversed Trump’s remain in Mexico policy.
When the government refuses to even defend our border, then insults it’s own citizens by giving benefits to illegal invaders - yes, invaders - over the citizens, how do you expect those citizens to react? It’s completely normal and natural for the human species to start thinking of using violence to defend our resources. Most living organisms do.
Yes we have higher brains capable of abstract concepts like “morality” and “the sanctity of human life” but when it comes to threatening our own means of survival through jobs and resources or directly from unvetted criminals and possible terrorists, then the lizard brain takes over and starts looking for the ultimate way to defend our territory like any other species: violence.
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The nursery had a bunk house and in the spring the migrants came up from Mexico and worked through to fall and went back to Mexico. They had no intention of staying through the year, yet were productive while they were here. That's how it worked then.
The demographics of illegals have changed since you worked that job. Is it possible that some of the Mexicans you worked with had valid H-2A agriculture work visas? Employer may have simply employed illegals, but even back then I think temp agriculture work visas were available (just never enough.)
I found this graphic on this web page: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/)
(https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/SR_23.11.16_unauthorized-immigrants_3.png?w=640)
I was surprised to see that about 5% of illegal immigrants were estimated to be from India. I would suspect these are mostly people who over-stayed their work visas.
Got this graphic from https://immigration.procon.org/demographics-of-immigrants-in-the-united-states-illegally/ (https://immigration.procon.org/demographics-of-immigrants-in-the-united-states-illegally/)
(https://images.procon.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/Undocumented-Immigrants_-Countries-of-Birth-1.png)
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Where do these stats come from if they're "undocumented"? Seriously.
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Where do these stats come from if they're "undocumented"? Seriously.
I also think it’s fair to lump Mexicans in with all central and South American invaders to get a true assessment of our invasion by our neighbors.
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29% “other” is ominous. What are they trying to hide?
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Where do these stats come from if they're "undocumented"? Seriously.
PEW Research methodology: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/)
The absolute numbers are likely wrong to some unknown degree, but if the methodology remains the same over the years there is higher chance it will capture trend lines reasonably close.
The problem with disputing any particular estimate is that if you want to claim the problem is worse than it used to be then you need to substitute in your own estimate along with methodology. One cannot reasonably bemoan the lack of more concrete numbers while simultaneously claiming the problem is now worse. There would be no way to prove it is worse if all estimates are suspect. Then you have no basis except personal opinion to make claims one way or another.
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Then you have no basis except personal opinion to make claims one way or another.
And you have a problem with that? This is still pilot"spin", isn't it? Eliminate personal opinion and we might as well shut this site down.
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And you have a problem with that? This is still pilot"spin", isn't it? Eliminate personal opinion and we might as well shut this site down.
Personal opinion is fine. But when there are sources that attempt to eke out objective data I'll grant them greater priority than someone's personal opinion. Selection bias may occur, your mileage may vary. This post void where prohibited by law.
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PEW Research methodology: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/)
The absolute numbers are likely wrong to some unknown degree, but if the methodology remains the same over the years there is higher chance it will capture trend lines reasonably close.
The problem with disputing any particular estimate is that if you want to claim the problem is worse than it used to be then you need to substitute in your own estimate along with methodology. One cannot reasonably bemoan the lack of more concrete numbers while simultaneously claiming the problem is now worse. There would be no way to prove it is worse if all estimates are suspect. Then you have no basis except personal opinion to make claims one way or another.
Are you saying there aren't a lot more illegals crossing the border now than there were in past years?
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"If the total number of crossings exceed 5,000 per day" YGTBSM That's 1.8 million a year!
Just close the fucking border!
One idea under consideration is to allow Homeland Security officials to stop migrants from applying for asylum at the southern border if the total number of crossings on a day exceeds 5,000.
Border agents are overwhelmed after single day totals exceeded 10,000 illegal aliens entering the U.S. by the southern border every day of this week.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12868573/Senate-closes-deal-new-hardline-border-policy-ban-asylum-5-000-crossings-day-Mayorkas-heads-Capitol-Hill-talks-new-migration-plan-billions-Israel-Ukraine-aid.html
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Are you saying there aren't a lot more illegals crossing the border now than there were in past years?
No. The data in those graphs only goes to 2019 and 2021 so doesn't show recent changes. Elsewhere I read that the covid pandemic allegedly held the influx steady, but since then the number of captured illegals has climbed a lot in the last two years. That part is caused by Biden Administration policies that encourage illegal immigration.
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PEW Research methodology: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/unauthorized-immigration-estimate-methodology/)
The absolute numbers are likely wrong to some unknown degree, but if the methodology remains the same over the years there is higher chance it will capture trend lines reasonably close.
The problem with disputing any particular estimate is that if you want to claim the problem is worse than it used to be then you need to substitute in your own estimate along with methodology. One cannot reasonably bemoan the lack of more concrete numbers while simultaneously claiming the problem is now worse. There would be no way to prove it is worse if all estimates are suspect. Then you have no basis except personal opinion to make claims one way or another.
I used to go out drinking with the Pew kids from Mainline Philly, when we were all in college. A lot of fun, but now hard lefties. Not saying the data is wrong, but still. It's still a lot of Mexicans, Central and South Americans and who knows else. Not all bad, but not all good either.
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I used to go out drinking with the Pew kids from Mainline Philly, when we were all in college. A lot of fun, but now hard lefties. Not saying the data is wrong, but still. It's still a lot of Mexicans, Central and South Americans and who knows else. Not all bad, but not all good either.
Yeah, that vague 29% no doubt includes people from the mid-east whether jihadists or not, people from Africa, Ukraine and maybe even Russian men fleeing from the meat grinder before Putin electrified the fence and made it harder to draft dodge.
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Is there any way to run background checks on these illegals as they are caught or surrender at the border? Do those shithole countries they are escaping from even know who these people are or where they are from or if they have a criminal history? Do we have any way of evaluating them?
If not put up a wall. Make that two walls about 100 ft apart with a no-mans land in between and put laser tracking robotic snipers to take out anyone in there. Technology can do a pretty decent job of distinguishing a human from an animal.
If we CAN:
First fix the legal immigration system that takes years or decades and keeps desirables out and allows low-lifes in.
As for those sneaking in:
-process them and send the undesirables back right away. Including the ones that can't be identified.
-Require that they speak some basic English.
-Implant Apple Air Tag or other trackers in them
-Store their photographs, voice prints, finger prints, eye scans and DNA data.
-Require that they get jobs, pay taxes and remain employed, without access to government assistance programs.
-Require that they "check in" monthly, like a parolee, where among other things, they have to demonstrate their English fluency and keep their employment and address updated.
-Do not allow them to bring relatives in that have not gone through the same process.
-They have to pass the same citizenship test as legal immigrants before they are granted more permanent status.
-Deport anyone that violates any of the rules or breaks any laws.
Yeah, this would be expensive, but would it be as expensive as what it is costing us now?
And yeah, it would be very intrusive, but that's their cost of admission.
Edit: now for coffee and read all the reasons this is a stupid idea.
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Here's novel idea...
TREAT ALL illegals as illegal and kick them out.
If they commit crimes, punish them to and then kick them out.
If their shit hole home land, or the commie UN doesn't like it, kick the fucking UN out of the country and let them pay their own bills and take all the spies using diplomatic passports with them.