Post by: Number7 on July 19, 2016, 05:32:05 PM
In a short amount of time the walking criminal conspiracy, Hilary Clinton will do the same.
As much as I hate it I have an obligation to decide how to vote in November.
The facts are clear: Never have the two parties put forth such pathetic nominees and yet they both managed to do so in the same election year.
I Will Never Vote For The Walking Crime Spree in Moa pants suits.
Never.
Ever.
That leaves the rest of the world to write in, or I could just suck it up and vote for The Donald.
I could pull the lever for the Libertarian candidate but don't feel any clear urge to do so.
There will be plenty of fringe candidates but they're always fringe candidates.
I could write in Ted Cruz because that's where my heart tells me to vote.
I can vote down the ballot and refuse to vote for either one, or anyone else.
What say you???
Post by: Number7 on July 19, 2016, 05:34:58 PM
The Donald has wrapped up the nomination on the first ballot, which I didn't expect.
In a short amount of time the walking criminal conspiracy, Hilary Clinton will do the same.
As much as I hate it I have an obligation to decide how to vote in November.
The facts are clear: Never have the two parties put forth such pathetic nominees and yet they both managed to do so in the same election year.
I Will Never Vote For The Walking Crime Spree in Moa pants suits.
Never.
Ever.
That leaves the rest of the world to write in, or I could just suck it up and vote for The Donald.
I could pull the lever for the Libertarian candidate but don't feel any clear urge to do so.
There will be plenty of fringe candidates but they're always fringe candidates.
I could write in Ted Cruz because that's where my heart tells me to vote.
I can vote down the ballot and refuse to vote for either one, or anyone else.
What say you???
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/19/trump-closes-deal-becomes-republican-nominee-for-president.html
(https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/c134.0.206.206/p206x206/13450814_1045195275517424_467160467944526030_n.png?oh=8e7760b383eecee70970fb8d4b0282de&oe=58233DC4)
Post by: Little Joe on July 19, 2016, 06:56:50 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on July 19, 2016, 07:26:09 PM
Post by: Dav8or on July 19, 2016, 08:50:42 PM
Post by: Kristin on July 19, 2016, 09:08:30 PM
Ryan was good, Christie was great and entertaining and Don Jr. do a wonderful job.
Ryan and Christie were good for the faithful, but then speeches won't change the mind of a single swing voter. Don Jr. did better and he talked about what America might look like under Trump. If I were Hillary, I would hope that all the GOP and the Trump campaign did nothing, 24/7, until the election, except bash me (Hillary). Everyone who was going to vote against Hillary because she is Hillary have already made up their minds. All those fish have been caught. Trump has to change the bait if he has a prayer of landing the big fish in November.
Post by: SoonerAviator on July 19, 2016, 10:16:25 PM
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Post by: Dav8or on July 19, 2016, 10:27:22 PM
Definitely going Libertarian on this one. What a shitshow of candidates the D/R parties have selected. Won't make much difference in OK, but I can't vote for anyone else with a clear conscience.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Welcome brother!!! Gary Johnson 2016!!!
Post by: Mr Pou on July 20, 2016, 04:00:13 AM
Quote
Posted by: Dav8or
« on: July 19, 2016, 10:27:22 PM »
Insert Quote
Quote from: SoonerAviator on July 19, 2016, 10:16:25 PM
Definitely going Libertarian on this one. What a shitshow of candidates the D/R parties have selected. Won't make much difference in OK, but I can't vote for anyone else with a clear conscience.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Welcome brother!!! Gary Johnson 2016!!!
While honorable, that's like taking a whizz in a dark suit: It might feel good, but nobody's going to notice.
My take is to vote for Trump, lesser of two evils. Really, ANYONE other than Hillary! I'd even vote for Steingar.
Post by: Steingar on July 20, 2016, 05:38:46 AM
Post by: Little Joe on July 20, 2016, 05:53:28 AM
The Donald is the GOP candidate for POTUS. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.I would too if I was a Hillary supporter.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on July 20, 2016, 06:16:45 AM
The Donald is the GOP candidate for POTUS. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
how are you going to feel when the corrupt doormat becomes the DNC candidate for POTUS?
Post by: Little Joe on July 20, 2016, 06:37:18 AM
how are you going to feel when the corrupt doormat becomes the DNC candidate for POTUS?Forget throwing up a little in my mouth. I will probably barf all over the living room.
Post by: Steingar on July 20, 2016, 09:20:59 AM
how are you going to feel when the corrupt doormat becomes the DNC candidate for POTUS?
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life. The funny thing is that Trump is easily the least qualified candidate. Couldn't even have his old lady give a speech without incident.
Post by: Mase on July 20, 2016, 11:19:51 AM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life.
This is called the willing suspension of disbelief.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on July 20, 2016, 11:25:12 AM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life. The funny thing is that Trump is easily the least qualified candidate. Couldn't even have his old lady give a speech without incident.
sad, very sad.
even here on Pilot Spin, I don't think I should express my level of disdain.
Post by: LevelWing on July 20, 2016, 12:06:41 PM
Post by: Kristin on July 20, 2016, 03:02:58 PM
Fortunately, I don't have to vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum. There are lots of ways to vote: None of the Above.
Post by: Number7 on July 20, 2016, 03:44:22 PM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life. The funny thing is that Trump is easily the least qualified candidate. Couldn't even have his old lady give a speech without incident.
that is either truly sad, utterly ignorant, or purposefully dishonest. Congratulations you have lowered my opinion of your intellect a couple of notches.
Post by: SoonerAviator on July 20, 2016, 06:11:17 PM
Welcome brother!!! Gary Johnson 2016!!!Lol yeah, even though he's a long shot statistically, there's no way I can vote for either of the other two. It truly is sad that such deplorable examples of humans are the "best" that America has to offer for Executive leadership.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Post by: Dav8or on July 20, 2016, 08:11:40 PM
I am going with Johnson. Those I have to admit, that if California's vote can down to me to swings its 55 electoral votes that would in turn swing the election, i.e. I got to choose for the country between Trump or Clinton, Trump has some serious selling to do to get me to pick him over Hillary. I see too much aggression very time he is challenged and that has been a pattern all his life. He has never had much use for advisors and that has been a life long habit pattern. He has demonstrated himself to be ignorant of the geopolitical landscape of the world and he will need a lot of advice and he will need to take it. I don't seem him doing that, so I don't want to see him with the nuclear launch codes.
Fortunately, I don't have to vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum. There are lots of ways to vote: None of the Above.
Way to go sister!! Welcome to the Gary for 2016 campaign! Maybe we can get the Libertarian numbers high enough that the Libertarians take themselves seriously and actually put together a campaign for 2020!
Post by: Number7 on July 21, 2016, 07:25:15 AM
Way to go sister!! Welcome to the Gary for 2016 campaign! Maybe we can get the Libertarian numbers high enough that the Libertarians take themselves seriously and actually put together a campaign for 2020!
Policy wise - other than the question of income tax - I just can't get excited about Gary Johnson.
I don't endorse legalizing drugs. We've seen what drug abuse does to the inner cities and now just about everywhere else. I don't believe in outlawing the death penalty. There has to be an ultimate punishment for terrorists, murderers and those who would destroy America.
The idea of a free for all in the area fo gay adoption is just silly. Psychiatrists constantly remind us that the children raised by gay couples are much more often depressed than children raised by a mother and a father.
There is much to admire and much to reject about the Libertarian positions but I do appreciate there being an alternative to the two party criminal enterprise system.
Post by: Steingar on July 21, 2016, 07:50:21 AM
I don't endorse legalizing drugs. We've seen what drug abuse does to the inner cities and now just about everywhere else.
While I dislike drug use, especially among the young, our strategy of interdiction and punishment clearly isn't working an never has. I'd prefer social tolerance and an emphasis on treatment. Worked for Portugal.
I don't believe in outlawing the death penalty. There has to be an ultimate punishment for terrorists, murderers and those who would destroy America.
I'd rather lock them up. The recantation of an aged terrorist is far better for society than his execution. The death penalty is expensive, ineffective, and applied in a racist fashion. I'd sooner see it gone.
The idea of a free for all in the area fo gay adoption is just silly. Psychiatrists constantly remind us that the children raised by gay couples are much more often depressed than children raised by a mother and a father.
Have you a citation for that?
Post by: Number7 on July 21, 2016, 08:15:20 AM
While I dislike drug use, especially among the young, our strategy of interdiction and punishment clearly isn't working an never has. I'd prefer social tolerance and an emphasis on treatment. Worked for Portugal.
I'd rather lock them up. The recantation of an aged terrorist is far better for society than his execution. The death penalty is expensive, ineffective, and applied in a racist fashion. I'd sooner see it gone.
Have you a citation for that?
Billions have been wasted treating drug addiction with mixed results at best.
A dead terrorist is no burden on taxpayers and presents zero risk repeating his crimes.
As for gay adoption facts.
You are an academic. Look it up.
Post by: Steingar on July 21, 2016, 08:55:50 AM
Billions have been wasted treating drug addiction with mixed results at best.
Far more has been spent on interdiction and punishment, with poor results at best. Several western democracies have experimented with drug tolerance with successful outcomes.
A dead terrorist is no burden on taxpayers and presents zero risk repeating his crimes.
The process of capital punishment is ruinously expensive, far more than incarceration. It has no effect on crime rates, and innocent people have been executed.
As for gay adoption facts.
You are an academic. Look it up.
Indeed I have, and reached a very different conclusion, which is why I requested a citation. I doubt strongly you have one of any worth whatsoever.
Post by: Number7 on July 22, 2016, 07:49:59 AM
Indeed I have, and reached a very different conclusion, which is why I requested a citation. I doubt strongly you have one of any worth whatsoever.
You are intellectually lazy beyond belief but that is a common trait among progressive academics. Head in the sand and all that.
As an academic, instead of seeking truth, you constantly refute truth to support your politics and personal convictions.
Of course your standard bearer swears that mmgw causes terrorism but can't explain why that only affects Muslims and not Jews and Christians, or anyone else for that matter. Only Muslims are driven to terrorism by the make believe effects of mmgw according to your prophet Obama.
As for studies about depression and children of gay couples, your intellectual laziness notwithstanding.
A new study by a Canadian economist is challenging the notion that children in families headed by homosexual couples are as well-adjusted as their counterparts in traditional families. The study by Douglas Allen, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, found that young adult children of same-sex couples are 35 percent less likely to graduate from high school than young adult children of traditional married couples.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/family/item/16815-canada-study-kids-in-gay-families-hampered-in-school
Study outcomes
Children raised in homes where the parents engaged in same-sex relationships were more likely than their counterparts in intact biological families to:
Experience poor educational attainment
Report overall lower levels of mental and physical health
Be in counseling or mental health therapy
Suffer from depression
Have recently thought of suicide (statistical significance exists only for children of fathers in same-sex relationships)
Be sexually molested (both inappropriate touching and forced sexual act)
Be unemployed or part-time employed as young adults
Have pled guilty to non-minor legal offenses
Live in homes with lower income levels (statistical significance only for children of mothers in same-sex relationships)
http://www.imfcanada.org/archive/655/children-parents-who-have-same-sex-relationships-new-study
https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13709971_873783289395122_8343969718242846554_n.jpg?oh=8da0403fc6d242ece55c6921d8c41d81&oe=5834F93F
http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research
http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx
http://marriagelaw.cua.edu/secure/No%20Basis.pdf
Post by: SoonerAviator on July 22, 2016, 02:34:48 PM
You are intellectually lazy beyond belief but that is a common trait among progressive academics. Head in the sand and all that.
As an academic, instead of seeking truth, you constantly refute truth to support your politics and personal convictions.
Of course your standard bearer swears that mmgw causes terrorism but can't explain why that only affects Muslims and not Jews and Christians, or anyone else for that matter. Only Muslims are driven to terrorism by the make believe effects of mmgw according to your prophet Obama.
As for studies about depression and children of gay couples, your intellectual laziness notwithstanding.
A new study by a Canadian economist is challenging the notion that children in families headed by homosexual couples are as well-adjusted as their counterparts in traditional families. The study by Douglas Allen, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, found that young adult children of same-sex couples are 35 percent less likely to graduate from high school than young adult children of traditional married couples.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/family/item/16815-canada-study-kids-in-gay-families-hampered-in-school
Study outcomes
Children raised in homes where the parents engaged in same-sex relationships were more likely than their counterparts in intact biological families to:
Experience poor educational attainment
Report overall lower levels of mental and physical health
Be in counseling or mental health therapy
Suffer from depression
Have recently thought of suicide (statistical significance exists only for children of fathers in same-sex relationships)
Be sexually molested (both inappropriate touching and forced sexual act)
Be unemployed or part-time employed as young adults
Have pled guilty to non-minor legal offenses
Live in homes with lower income levels (statistical significance only for children of mothers in same-sex relationships)
http://www.imfcanada.org/archive/655/children-parents-who-have-same-sex-relationships-new-study
https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13709971_873783289395122_8343969718242846554_n.jpg?oh=8da0403fc6d242ece55c6921d8c41d81&oe=5834F93F
http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research
http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx
http://marriagelaw.cua.edu/secure/No%20Basis.pdf
I read the study, as well as several critiques of the study. The conclusions he came to are due to some seriously flawed logic and statistical manipulation. Some of it doesn't account for a lot of variables, and leads him to correlate data that has a high probability of non-causal. I'd probably put this study on the list to view with extreme skepticism.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 22, 2016, 03:00:04 PM
I am going with Johnson. Those I have to admit, that if California's vote can down to me to swings its 55 electoral votes that would in turn swing the election, i.e. I got to choose for the country between Trump or Clinton, Trump has some serious selling to do to get me to pick him over Hillary. I see too much aggression very time he is challenged and that has been a pattern all his life. He has never had much use for advisors and that has been a life long habit pattern. He has demonstrated himself to be ignorant of the geopolitical landscape of the world and he will need a lot of advice and he will need to take it. I don't seem him doing that, so I don't want to see him with the nuclear launch codes.
Fortunately, I don't have to vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum. There are lots of ways to vote: None of the Above.
Yeah, heaven forbid a male actually show some level of testosterone in the current PC, unisex world. Trump is not exactly who I would have chosen, but at least he understands what it takes to succeed in life's endeavors. Say what you might about him, but he is a successful man with what it takes to lead. The doormat on the other hand has accomplished absolutely nothing herself. Nothing! Being present when others achieve success doesn't count. She is also devoid of any leadership qualities. She doesn't inspire. She has no vision. She has no organizational capabilities. She only conveys that she is entitled, and it's somehow her turn. We are at a tipping point in this country, and vote for the doormat will ensure the demise of the country as founded. Individual liberty and exceptionalism will be finally, and fully traded for collectivism. I'm not sure the end result is substantially different with Tump, but at least there is some glimmer of hope with a Trump administration.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 22, 2016, 03:02:59 PM
The Donald is the GOP candidate for POTUS. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Don't worry, That discomfort will mask the nauseating and unpleasant fact that your head is up your ass
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 22, 2016, 03:04:50 PM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. ....
Rationalization at it's finest.... Or maybe willful ignorance.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on July 22, 2016, 03:54:39 PM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life. The funny thing is that Trump is easily the least qualified candidate. Couldn't even have his old lady give a speech without incident.So her level of corruption, which has been well documented, is okay with you, because to you it doesn't exceed the general level of political corruption.
Here's an idea. Why don't we dig up, expose and punish corruption, instead of just looking the other way and saying "Politicians will be politicians?" They are supposed to serve us, not themselves. It is probably anger at their general failure to do so that has led to this Trump thing.
I disagree with you about Trump, in that I can think of many others less qualified. It is looking like he is surrounding himself with level-headed people who actually care about America.
Hillary doesn't seem to care about America, and that is probably what led to Sanders' surge; he is passionate at least. And Trump is passionate and vigorous. Hillary? Meh.
Post by: Lucifer on July 22, 2016, 04:03:41 PM
Post by: Gary on July 22, 2016, 04:50:58 PM
Hillary is passionate about Hillary, and she is passionate about the Clinton Criminal Foundation.
Likewise, the Donald is all about the Donald. Or.... are you suggesting that Mr. Trump has become an altruistic, benevolent servant of the downtrodden middle class folks?
Seems as though the most used reason mentioned on this board to vote for the Donald is "he's not Hillary". While that is certainly one aspect, what else is out there that would cause me to vote for him? Does he have a policy to reduce the Federal Debt? Do like the idea he would defeat ISIS, but exactly how is he going to do that? Can anyone even identify who ISIS is? Bringing jobs back to the US is an admirable idea, how is that going to happen? Will he reduce taxes, and cut spending to match? Lots of ideas that sound wonderful, till those nasty details of implementation are considered.
The office of President isn't a dictator, if Mr. Trump is going to accomplish these things, he will need help. From what I've seen, he is as vilified by the left as Hillary is by the right. Seems quite a few on the right aren't exactly jumping for joy at his nomination. Do you believe that a President Trump will get the cooperation he needs to accomplish things? Many have said that President Obama was divisive , well, IMHO, a President Trump could make President Obama look like an amatuer.
Post by: SoonerAviator on July 22, 2016, 04:55:56 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid a male actually show some level of testosterone in the current PC, unisex world. Trump is not exactly who I would have chosen, but at least he understands what it takes to succeed in life's endeavors.
Gary Johnson has summited some of the tallest peaks on every continent. How's that for testosterone? The only way the Donald gets to the top of even a modest hill is via helicopter, lol.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Post by: Lucifer on July 22, 2016, 05:01:41 PM
Likewise, the Donald is all about the Donald. Or.... are you suggesting.......
I see reading and comprehension are difficult for you.
My comments were about Hillary, and only Hillary. Your lame attempt to try to twist my post and suggest I had meant something else is pathetic at best.
Hillary couldn't give 2 shits about anyone except herself. Her entire history has shown that over and over again.
Post by: JeffDG on July 22, 2016, 05:05:01 PM
Likewise, the Donald is all about the Donald. Or.... are you suggesting that Mr. Trump has become an altruistic, benevolent servant of the downtrodden middle class folks?Of course.
He gave that money to vets, after he promised to do so, and waited months, and was called on it by the newspapers...very generous.
Post by: Gary on July 22, 2016, 05:13:30 PM
I see reading and comprehension are difficult for you.
Yes, we do seem to have a failure to communicate. Perhaps I'll use smaller words and sentences in the future.
Hillary couldn't give 2 shits about anyone except herself. Her entire history has shown that over and over again.
Fair enough, there is some truth to what you said.
Post by: JeffDG on July 22, 2016, 05:14:50 PM
I see reading and comprehension are difficult for you.Yet you're all in for Donnie, who you can say precisely the same thing about.
My comments were about Hillary, and only Hillary. Your lame attempt to try to twist my post and suggest I had meant something else is pathetic at best.
Hillary couldn't give 2 shits about anyone except herself. Her entire history has shown that over and over again.
Post by: nddons on July 22, 2016, 06:55:51 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid a male actually show some level of testosterone in the current PC, unisex world. Trump is not exactly who I would have chosen, but at least he understands what it takes to succeed in life's endeavors. Say what you might about him, but he is a successful man with what it takes to lead. The doormat on the other hand has accomplished absolutely nothing herself. Nothing! Being present when others achieve success doesn't count. She is also devoid of any leadership qualities. She doesn't inspire. She has no vision. She has no organizational capabilities. She only conveys that she is entitled, and it's somehow her turn. We are at a tipping point in this country, and vote for the doormat will ensure the demise of the country as founded. Individual liberty and exceptionalism will be finally, and fully traded for collectivism. I'm not sure the end result is substantially different with Tump, but at least there is some glimmer of hope with a Trump administration.
Welcome back, Joe! 👍
Post by: nddons on July 22, 2016, 07:01:09 PM
So her level of corruption, which has been well documented, is okay with you, because to you it doesn't exceed the general level of political corruption.
Here's an idea. Why don't we dig up, expose and punish corruption, instead of just looking the other way and saying "Politicians will be politicians?" They are supposed to serve us, not themselves. It is probably anger at their general failure to do so that has led to this Trump thing.
I disagree with you about Trump, in that I can think of many others less qualified. It is looking like he is surrounding himself with level-headed people who actually care about America.
Hillary doesn't seem to care about America, and that is probably what led to Sanders' surge; he is passionate at least. And Trump is passionate and vigorous. Hillary? Meh.
I felt better about Trump after he selected Mike Pence.
Post by: asechrest on July 22, 2016, 07:18:24 PM
I felt better about Trump after he selected Mike Pence.
Then his plan worked.
Post by: Kristin on July 22, 2016, 08:29:00 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid a male actually show some level of testosterone in the current PC, unisex world. Trump is not exactly who I would have chosen, but at least he understands what it takes to succeed in life's endeavors. Say what you might about him, but he is a successful man with what it takes to lead. The doormat on the other hand has accomplished absolutely nothing herself. Nothing! Being present when others achieve success doesn't count. She is also devoid of any leadership qualities. She doesn't inspire. She has no vision. She has no organizational capabilities. She only conveys that she is entitled, and it's somehow her turn. We are at a tipping point in this country, and vote for the doormat will ensure the demise of the country as founded. Individual liberty and exceptionalism will be finally, and fully traded for collectivism. I'm not sure the end result is substantially different with Tump, but at least there is some glimmer of hope with a Trump administration.
I don't know what Trump's testosterone levels are. I am sure you don't either, and probably neither does he. However, he proudly boast that he hits back 10 times as hard as he perceives that he was hit. His actions demonstrate that he at least tries to accomplish that. The world as it is needs a more subtle approach.
Trump may or may not be a leader. So far all I have seen is a rallying point for the truly pissed off. What he has become, after that speech last night, is panderer in chief. His 50-75 promises often would work at counter-purposes to one of his other promises and in any event would bankrupt the country in very short order if he was actually to do them. Of course, he will not do any of them, but what will we got. No one knows.
Whatever Hillary's issues are, I am betting that she is the next President, though I hope that the Libertarians get a boost out of it.
Post by: Kristin on July 22, 2016, 08:32:52 PM
So her level of corruption, which has been well documented, is okay with you, because to you it doesn't exceed the general level of political corruption.
Here's an idea. Why don't we dig up, expose and punish corruption, instead of just looking the other way and saying "Politicians will be politicians?" They are supposed to serve us, not themselves. It is probably anger at their general failure to do so that has led to this Trump thing.
I disagree with you about Trump, in that I can think of many others less qualified. It is looking like he is surrounding himself with level-headed people who actually care about America.
Hillary doesn't seem to care about America, and that is probably what led to Sanders' surge; he is passionate at least. And Trump is passionate and vigorous. Hillary? Meh.
Some might prefer a corrupt president that makes a few hundred million more off a White House gig to one who puts use into another trillion dollar war. Personally, I have preferred it if GWB embezzled a $1B of taxpayer money rather than throw this country into Iraq.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 22, 2016, 08:33:26 PM
Gary Johnson has summited some of the tallest peaks on every continent. How's that for testosterone? The only way the Donald gets to the top of even a modest hill is via helicopter, lol.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Completely irrelevant fact since Mr Johnson is not, and will not be a contender in this election.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 22, 2016, 08:36:21 PM
Welcome back, Joe! 👍
Thanks Stan...It's good check in to see what's up...
Post by: Kristin on July 22, 2016, 08:39:39 PM
Hillary couldn't give 2 shits about anyone except herself. Her entire history has shown that over and over again.
This would be an awesome quote if it was true. But then you wouldn't be caught dead reading her biography, now would you. That would take all of fun out of shoveling the BS.
Post by: Kristin on July 22, 2016, 08:41:32 PM
I felt better about Trump after he selected Mike Pence.
So at least now there is one Christian on the ballot, even if he is the Veep.
It kills me that the hardcore Christians are voting for Trump on religious grounds and Hillary probably goes to church more in a month than Trump does in a decade.
Post by: Dav8or on July 22, 2016, 09:31:17 PM
Hillary is passionate about Hillary, and she is passionate about the Clinton Criminal Foundation.
And Trump is passionate about Trump and also the Donald. If you think Donald Trump would give a rat's ass about the American people, you are seriously delusional. Witness today's Cruz rag-a-thon. He's more pissed about Cruz not stepping in line and endorsing him than anything Hillary has done.
Post by: Dav8or on July 22, 2016, 09:36:02 PM
I felt better about Trump after he selected Mike Pence.
Why? What's so great about Mike Pence? From what I've read he's pretty much accomplished nothing and a B- list politician.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 23, 2016, 05:07:02 AM
Pretty darn good actually. The "corrupt doormat" is no more corrupt than any other politician operating not eh national scale. She is easily the most qualified candidate to be President I've seen in my life. The funny thing is that Trump is easily the least qualified candidate. Couldn't even have his old lady give a speech without incident.
LMAO! Qualified?
She stayed with a perjuring rapist husband to preserve her power and influence.
She carpetbagged her way to Senate seat. No accomplishments, she didn't even deliver jobs to her upstate constituents as promised.
She was crushed in her first presidential bid by an upstart with less accomplishments than she had. They hate each other's guts.
The "consolation prize" to roll over for 8 years and was to be appointed to SecState by her conquering opponent. We know how that went.
Now she believes to her core that she "deserves" what was taken from her 8 years ago. It's her "turn." That sickens me. There is no other viable candidate in the D party? Bernie was put up as a strawman.
As far as Trump being wholly unqualified, bullshit. He is probably the most accomplished and ready to PUT AMERICA FIRST, save RWR, in my lifetime.
Post by: nddons on July 23, 2016, 05:09:04 AM
Why? What's so great about Mike Pence? From what I've read he's pretty much accomplished nothing and a B- list politician.Then you should read a little more. He's been a good governor with conservative bonafides, unlike the guy at the top of the ticket.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 06:44:10 AM
This would be an awesome quote if it was true. But then you wouldn't be caught dead reading her biography, now would you. That would take all of fun out of shoveling the BS.
"Your ignorance is their power".
Now that's an awesome quote.
Even Hillary's campaign slogan "I'm with her" clearly shows that it's all about her and her ambitions, screw everybody else.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 06:47:15 AM
Why? What's so great about Mike Pence? From what I've read he's pretty much accomplished nothing and a B- list politician.
And Trump is passionate about Trump and also the Donald. If you think Donald Trump would give a rat's ass about the American people, you are seriously delusional. Witness today's Cruz rag-a-thon. He's more pissed about Cruz not stepping in line and endorsing him than anything Hillary has done.
It's fun watching you spout off liberal talking points daily, right on cue.
"Your ignorance is their power".
Perfect.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 06:55:16 AM
So at least now there is one Christian on the ballot, even if he is the Veep.
It kills me that the hardcore Christians are voting for Trump on religious grounds and Hillary probably goes to church more in a month than Trump does in a decade.
So now the acid test for being a Christian is how often one attends a church service?
Soooooooo.........if that's the case, what about your guy Obama who claims to be a Christian but hasn't set foot in a church for over a decade?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on July 23, 2016, 07:12:02 AM
So now the acid test for being a Christian is how often one attends a church service?I've seen pictures of him in church. Going into a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going into a hangar makes you an airplane.
Soooooooo.........if that's the case, what about your guy Obama who claims to be a Christian but hasn't set foot in a church for over a decade?
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 07:16:06 AM
I've seen pictures of him in church. Going into a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going into a hangar makes you an airplane.
But Kristin claims it does?
I would think Hillary uses the church like she used her Secretary of State position, just as another way to solicit for the Clinton Crime Foundation.
Post by: asechrest on July 23, 2016, 08:02:00 AM
I've seen pictures of him in church. Going into a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going into a hangar makes you an airplane.
Yes it does, if you also say you're a Christian and don't egregiously abuse the label (via terrorism, for example).
Post by: Dav8or on July 23, 2016, 09:57:18 AM
As far as Trump being wholly unqualified, bullshit. He is probably the most accomplished and ready to PUT AMERICA FIRST, save RWR, in my lifetime.
Why is it that Trump is seen as more accomplished than Romney was? Admit it. You like Trump because he's loud mouth and talks like an idiot in a bar and in spite of his screw ups, failed predictions and ridiculous business ventures, he still has millions.
Romney was the better candidate but he lacked the ranting babble to dumb it down for America. The only thing Trump is ready to put first is Trump as witnessed by his obsession with Ted Cruz. Trump is one of those annoying guys that always has to be right, even when they are flat wrong and has to get the last word.
Post by: Dav8or on July 23, 2016, 10:15:00 AM
Then you should read a little more. He's been a good governor with conservative bonafides, unlike the guy at the top of the ticket.
The ranking I saw was he has been an OK governor with mediocre approval ratings.
https://morningconsult.com/state-governor-rankings/
His particular conservative bonafides are the ones I care least for personally, but it is easy to say that he is way more conservative than Trump. Trump really isn't a conservative, or a liberal. He's just Trump. Ralph Kramden goes to Washington, with Pence as Ed Norton.
BTW, here is what the real Ralph Kramden thinks of Trump-
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 10:41:33 AM
Trump is one of those annoying guys that always has to be right, even when they are flat wrong and has to get the last word.
Pot, meet Kettle.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
Pot, meet Kettle.C'mon. You've used that like a dozen times today. The trumpalumpas not giving you new insults to use?
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 23, 2016, 11:36:15 AM
....It kills me that the hardcore Christians are voting for Trump on religious grounds....
Why? Could it be they are tired of being lied to by pieces of human refuge like Hillary who claim to be "Christians like them" only to lie, cheat, and sell out their country only to grab/keep power while lining their pockets. This isn't that hard to understand, even if one is only passively paying attention. They believe Trump will not do what this long line of career politicians have done and therefore see him as having stronger morals and a man of his word.... You've always stuck me as a very bright person, why is this so hard?
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 11:39:14 AM
Why? Could it be they are tired of being lied to by pieces of human refuge like Hillary who claim to be "like them" only to lie, cheat, and sell out their country only to grab/keep power while lining their pockets. This isn't that hard to understand, even if one is only passively paying attention. You've always stuck me as a very bright person, why is this so hard?You realize that everything you wrote there could just as easily be applied to Trump and his gang as to Hillary, right?
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 23, 2016, 11:43:03 AM
You realize that everything you wrote there could just as easily be applied to Trump and his gang as to Hillary, right?
How so Jeff? I know you have a hardon for Trump, but attempting sleazeball equivalency with either of the Clintons is laughable.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 12:08:01 PM
How so Jeff? I know you have a hardon for Trump, but attempting sleazeball equivalency with either of the Clintons is laughable.
Let me break it down:
Could it be they are tired of being lied toTrump constantly lies. Even when called on it, he doubles down. He still insists that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the JFK assasination (as of yesterday when he repeated it)
only to lie, cheat, and sell out their country only to grab/keep power while lining their pockets.Trump has lied, cheated and sold out everyone around him to line his own pockets. He was just ordered to pay nearly $300k in legal fees for a contractor he stiffed for $30k, then forced to take him to court.
The level of lack of self-awareness among the Trump true-believers is staggering. Just about every single accusation they hit Hillary with, Trump has done the same thing, or in many cases worse. About the only one he hasn't done is compromise national security, and the only reason he hasn't done that is that nobody has been stupid enough to trust him with national security info
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 23, 2016, 12:22:49 PM
The level of lack of self-awareness among the Trump true-believers is staggering. Just about every single accusation they hit Hillary with, Trump has done the same thing, or in many cases worse. About the only one he hasn't done is compromise national security, and the only reason he hasn't done that is that nobody has been stupid enough to trust him with national security info
"In much cases worse....." It is your self awareness which is truly lacking my friend.... but then all this gnashing of teeth over Trump is really irrelevant if you truly believe in conservative or libertarian ideals. There is only one choice on the ballot that will not support Hillary. I admire the conviction of those supporting third party candidates like Johnson, but the fact of the matter is those protest votes will elect someone we know will finish the job of substantially changing/destroying the United States.
I realize places like this need to debate the issues for the next few months, but a simple choice about our country's future was defined when Trump won the nomination a few weeks back. In my opinion, this is a very simple decision. Vote for Trump, or elect Hillary. Period.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 12:38:38 PM
"In much cases worse....." It is your self awareness which is truly lacking my friend.... but then all this gnashing of teeth over Trump is really irrelevant if you truly believe in conservative or libertarian ideals. There is only one choice on the ballot that will not support Hillary. I admire the conviction of those supporting third party candidates like Johnson, but the fact of the matter is those protest votes will elect someone we know will finish the job of substantially changing/destroying the United States.If you are able to endorse the kind of human being that Trump is, then so be it. I, however, cannot.
I realize places like this need to debate the issues for the next few months, but a simple choice about our country's future was defined when Trump won the nomination a few weeks back. In my opinion, this is a very simple decision. Vote for Trump, or elect Hillary. Period.
Remember, there is no "Not Hillary" voting option. You are voting FOR Trump. That means you're voting for someone who is, at this moment, showing themselves to be potentially mentally unstable, paranoid and, I never thought I would say this, a bigger narcissist than Obama. That's your decision, but don't cloak it in "I'm not voting for Trump, I'm voting against Hillary", because that's a load of bullshit that you're deluding yourself with.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 23, 2016, 12:59:15 PM
If you are able to endorse the kind of human being that Trump is, then so be it. I, however, cannot.
Remember, there is no "Not Hillary" voting option. You are voting FOR Trump. That means you're voting for someone who is, at this moment, showing themselves to be potentially mentally unstable, paranoid and, I never thought I would say this, a bigger narcissist than Obama. That's your decision, but don't cloak it in "I'm not voting for Trump, I'm voting against Hillary", because that's a load of bullshit that you're deluding yourself with.
Bwwwwaaaahaahahaahahahahahahha. No shit Pilgrim. Stick you condensing, self righteous attitude up your ass! I told you specifically why I am voting for Trump, and you chose to assign different motives. If you chose to continue this arrogant, know-it-all prick schtick, I'll continue to respond in kind.
I am voting for TRUMP because the alternative is not tenable. A vote for anyone but Trump elects Hillary. Period. All you emotional nonsense doesn't change that fact. I get it that you don't like Trump. I'm not particularly fond of him either, but the election of Hillary will assure the destruction of the country as it was founded. Numerous seats on the Supreme Courts will be in play in the next administration and that fact alone will substantially change the direction of the country over the next several decades. I strongly believe the damage, which will occur because of her appointments, will be irreversible. Therefore, voting for anyone that helps elect Hillary, or sitting out this election as a protest is pure stupidity, IMHO.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 01:09:02 PM
It's hilarious how bad a lack of self-awareness that shows.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on July 23, 2016, 01:16:24 PM
I get the biggest kick out of Trumpkins who say "Hillary is just out for herself, it's all me, me, me! I can't vote for that, so I'm voting for TRUMP!"
It's hilarious how bad a lack of self-awareness that shows.
It's hilarious how Trump Haters can get so emotional, they lose all sense of reality and logic.
Post by: LevelWing on July 23, 2016, 01:20:30 PM
This is a very hard election but I keep coming back to the question of, if I vote for Trump this time and he doesn't win, what's the argument going to be in 2020 if the Republicans nominate another less than ideal candidate? Vote for him anyway to prevent Hillary from getting another four years? I've asked several times when this nasty cycle will end and I have yet to receive a sufficient response. I'm still on the fence though I'm currently leaning towards a write-in (which is not a vote for Hillary, no matter how you look at it).
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 01:23:12 PM
I'm waiting for Trump to start going after Hillary instead of Cruz. I understand he can't expend all of his political ammo right now but this petty stuff of attacking Cruz needs to stop. He discussed unity during his announcement of Mike Pence and he's not showing it when he continues to attack Cruz.But, but, Cruz told people to vote their conscience. That's a deep insult to the Trumpies...they know that if they vote their conscience they won't be voting for Donnie boy. They have to subsume their conscience to vote for Donnie.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 01:24:28 PM
I'm still on the fence though I'm currently leaning towards a write-in (which is not a vote for Hillary, no matter how you look at it).
Embrace SMOD!
(http://hoystory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/SMOD_2016.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 01:27:32 PM
I'm still on the fence though I'm currently leaning towards a write-in (which is not a vote for Hillary, no matter how you look at it).
Sure it is. Do you actually believe the write in will win?
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 01:29:50 PM
Sure it is. Do you actually believe the write in will win?Unless his write in is for Hillary, it is manifestly not a vote for Hillary.
Just like a vote for Trump is not a vote against Hillary, but a vote FOR the Cheeto Jesus.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 01:33:24 PM
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 01:36:46 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/13/paul_ryan_at_town_hall_opposing_trump_is_a_vote_for_hillary_clinton.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/13/paul_ryan_at_town_hall_opposing_trump_is_a_vote_for_hillary_clinton.html)So?
I disagree with Rep Ryan.
I don't go for the <InsertPoliticianHere> Can Say No Wrong school that is endemic of you Trumpkins. I feel comfortable with assessing situations for myself, not needing to be spoon fed the talking points of the day coming from Donnie's twitter rantings.
Post by: LevelWing on July 23, 2016, 01:40:54 PM
Sure it is. Do you actually believe the write in will win?Of course not, but that's not the point. The point of a write-in is to vote for the person who best represents your positions if they are not on the main ballot. For some, Trump is not that person. We've discussed this at length here; not voting for Trump is not the same as voting for Hillary.
Post by: LevelWing on July 23, 2016, 01:42:44 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/13/paul_ryan_at_town_hall_opposing_trump_is_a_vote_for_hillary_clinton.htmlThat doesn't make him right. This is an equivalency argument that's trying to be used and I understand the point that everyone is trying to make but at the same time it's being used to guilt people into voting for Trump. If Trump was that great of a candidate to begin with, we wouldn't need to have people out there convincing their own base to vote for the party's nominee. I don't recall this sort of talk when Bush ran in 2000.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Of course not, but that's not the point. The point of a write-in is to vote for the person who best represents your positions if they are not on the main ballot. For some, Trump is not that person. We've discussed this at length here; not voting for Trump is not the same as voting for Hillary.
So you will be OK with a President Hillary?
Post by: LevelWing on July 23, 2016, 01:48:01 PM
So you will be OK with a President Hillary?Stop trying to guilt me, especially when I've said I'm still on the fence. I've made it clear that I will not vote for Hillary nor do I want to see her as president.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 01:57:14 PM
Stop trying to guilt me, especially when I've said I'm still on the fence. I've made it clear that I will not vote for Hillary nor do I want to see her as president.
LOL! No one is trying to "guilt you".
Just a straight up question. So let me see if I have this now, you will write in a candidate that has zero chance of winning, but you don't want to see Hillary getting elected either........Right?
So the reality is there are only two people who will have the real chance of becoming the 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. That is a fact.
So if you don't want to see Hillary get elected..............What's the real choice?
Post by: LevelWing on July 23, 2016, 02:05:07 PM
LOL! No one is trying to "guilt you".Standing on principle. I've already stated my thoughts on why I think Trump will damage the conservative movement going forward if he wins (not to mention the damage he's already done). I've also stated (now multiple times in this thread alone) that I'm on the fence, but I won't be guilted or bullied into voting for Trump. This is going in circles now.
Just a straight up question. So let me see if I have this now, you will write in a candidate that has zero chance of winning, but you don't want to see Hillary getting elected either........Right?
So the reality is there are only two people who will have the real chance of becoming the 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. That is a fact.
So if you don't want to see Hillary get elected..............What's the real choice?
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 02:11:12 PM
Standing on principle.
So while you stand on principle, President Hillary will continue the legacy of Obama and even appoint 4 to 5 SC Justices which will affect the rest of your life.
Got it.
This is going in circles now.
A big "no shit" on that one buddy.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 02:30:17 PM
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 02:31:20 PM
So while you stand on principle, President Hillary will continue the legacy of Obama and even appoint 4 to 5 SC Justices which will affect the rest of your life.Wow, the number keeps climing. Used to be 2-3, now it's 4-5. Soon, she'll be appointing all 9 on January 21! How many card-carrying Communists were in Hillary's State Department anyway?
Got it.
A big "no shit" on that one buddy.
Never take advice from someone who thinks "vote your conscience" is an indictment.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 03:59:50 PM
"Your ignorance is their power".
Now that's an awesome quote.
Yes! Especially so when it applies to 99% of the Trump supporters too.
Quote
Even Hillary's campaign slogan "I'm with her" clearly shows that it's all about her and her ambitions, screw everybody else.
That certainly makes her different them Trump. :o
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 04:04:27 PM
Yes! Especially so when it applies to 99% of the Trump supporters too.
Yes, typical liberal talking point.
Ever have an original thought? Or is independent thought looked down upon in the liberal world?
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:10:45 PM
She stayed with a perjuring rapist husband to preserve her power and influence.
You know this how? She told you? Maybe you did a Vulcan mind meld? Or maybe you are talking out of your nether regions.
Quote
She carpetbagged her way to Senate seat. No accomplishments, she didn't even deliver jobs to her upstate constituents as promised.
That is despicable of her. She is clearly the only politician to have promised something she couldn't deliver anyway and then welched on the deal. You have convinced me! Trump for sure will be able to up defense spending huge, build a 1000 mile wall, spend trillions on infrastructure, and have a huge tax cut. Absolutely! I believe! I believe! Hallelujah! I am a convert to magical thinking.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:13:04 PM
So now the acid test for being a Christian is how often one attends a church service?
Soooooooo.........if that's the case, what about your guy Obama who claims to be a Christian but hasn't set foot in a church for over a decade?
That would be highly indicative. That and she carries the Bible around and actually reads from it. Trump too a few weeks to find a Bible and clearly has never read the thing. Another indicator. Of course, the definition of a Christian can be a bit loosy goosy.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:14:52 PM
But Kristin claims it does?
I would think Hillary uses the church like she used her Secretary of State position, just as another way to solicit for the Clinton Crime Foundation.
If that is your best thinking, you are in a world of hurt as you are dead wrong, unless everyone who has ever known her from childhood are all lying en masse.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 04:24:06 PM
You know this how? She told you? Maybe you did a Vulcan mind meld? Or maybe you are talking out of your nether regions.
That is despicable of her. She is clearly the only politician to have promised something she couldn't deliver anyway and then welched on the deal. You have convinced me! Trump for sure will be able to up defense spending huge, build a 1000 mile wall, spend trillions on infrastructure, and have a huge tax cut. Absolutely! I believe! I believe! Hallelujah! I am a convert to magical thinking.
Yea, we can't bring up the facts about Bill. It was all a vast right wing conspiracy after all.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 04:26:16 PM
If that is your best thinking, you are in a world of hurt as you are dead wrong, unless everyone who has ever known her from childhood are all lying en masse.
Oh yes, I forgot, you read her biography. And it must be the 100% gospel truth.
Let me guess, you read Baracks two books and you believed every word there as well?
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:26:23 PM
Bwwwwaaaahaahahaahahahahahahha. No shit Pilgrim. Stick you condensing, self righteous attitude up your ass! I told you specifically why I am voting for Trump, and you chose to assign different motives. If you chose to continue this arrogant, know-it-all prick schtick, I'll continue to respond in kind.
It's hilarious how Hillary Haters can get so emotional, they lose all sense of reality and logic.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 04:28:06 PM
It's hilarious how Hillary Haters can get so emotional, they lose all sense of reality and logic.
It's hilarious how Hillary supporters have their heads so far up their asses they can't tell fiction from reality.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
Yes, typical liberal talking point.
Is it? I wouldn't know. I don't talk to enough of them. You must though. It seemed like most of what I have read on this forum.
Quote
Ever have an original thought? Or is independent thought looked down upon in the liberal world?
I don't think you know what an independent thought is. Like me give you a clue. If you agree with it, it is not independent. FTFY!
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:35:25 PM
Oh yes, I forgot, you read her biography. And it must be the 100% gospel truth.
Let me guess, you read Baracks two books and you believed every word there as well?
Proud of being ignorant are we? At least it is one more book on the subject than you have read.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 04:36:50 PM
It's hilarious how Trump supporters have their heads so far up their asses they can't tell fiction from reality.
FTFY!
Vote Johnson!
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 05:32:34 PM
FTFY!
Vote Johnson!
So you are a staunch liberal and Hillary supporter, but then you pivot to Johnson?
Interesting.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 05:35:33 PM
Proud of being ignorant are we? At least it is one more book on the subject than you have read.
I've read many books, and many books on the subject. You choose only to believe the one that puts Hillary in a positive light.
But there are many many books written by individuals who know Hillary and don't put her in such a positive position. But you will just come back and blame the vast right wing conspiracy, on cue.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 05:57:17 PM
Yes, typical liberal talking point.Pot-Kettle
Ever have an original thought? Or is independent thought looked down upon in the liberal world?
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 05:58:52 PM
Oh yes, I forgot, you read her biography. And it must be the 100% gospel truth.This from the guy who thinks Donnie is the messiah, and The Art of the Deal is the revealed word of God.
Let me guess, you read Baracks two books and you believed every word there as well?
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 06:20:44 PM
So you are a staunch liberal and Hillary supporter, but then you pivot to Johnson?
Interesting.
You have tunnel vision. You look at everything through the lens of Hillary/Trump. It affects your ability to comprehend, or you would know that I am not a "liberal", whatever you think that means. I am a card carrying member of the Disgusted Party. If you had been mouthing brainless slogs against Trump and Conservatives, I would have been picking on that too. I am against brainless partisanship that is certain about "facts" because they read them on some right/left wing website, but never bother to look at the big picture and never bother to search out the facts for themselves.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 06:28:21 PM
I've read many books, and many books on the subject. You choose only to believe the one that puts Hillary in a positive light.
But there are many many books written by individuals who know Hillary and don't put her in such a positive position. But you will just come back and blame the vast right wing conspiracy, on cue.
I didn't put her in a positive position. I called a couple of claims about her to be lies. I have read several different sources, quoting different people, all of who say that Hillary is a devote Methodist. There is also a lot written by people who know that are critical of many aspects of Hillary. I believe those too because that was the where the weight of the evidence took me. You interpret my calling out one point about Hillary as a lie, to be evidence that I like everything about her. I am sure that you use better logic in your business life as you wouldn't likely be playing with airplanes. But when it comes to politics, you seem to lose that ability, which is true of half a dozen or some anti-Hillary folks here.
I am not voting for Hillary, not based on lies, but based on one thing only. I can't tell who might own Hillary, but I am afraid that someone does when the Clinton's rake in the kind of loot that they have raked in since Billy Bob left the White House. They didn't get that money for charm, talent, or good looks. So I am wondering what strings might be attached to that loot. I can't prove anything, but there is enough unanswered questions that mean I can't support her.
Post by: JeffDG on July 23, 2016, 06:33:44 PM
I have read several different sources, quoting different people, all of who say that Hillary is a devote Methodist.Lucifer will be quoting Hedly Lamar from Blazing Saddles lumping Methodists in with all other manner of thugs soon.
Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 06:47:17 PM
You have tunnel vision. You look at everything through the lens of Hillary/Trump. It affects your ability to comprehend, or you would know that I am not a "liberal", whatever you think that means. I am a card carrying member of the Disgusted Party. If you had been mouthing brainless slogs against Trump and Conservatives, I would have been picking on that too. I am against brainless partisanship that is certain about "facts" because they read them on some right/left wing website, but never bother to look at the big picture and never bother to search out the facts for themselves.
I've read most of what you have written here and you come off as a closet liberal. But like most California liberals you try to cloak it as a "moderate".
Whatever, keep pretending.
Post by: Kristin on July 23, 2016, 08:05:10 PM
I've read most of what you have written here and you come off as a closet liberal. But like most California liberals you try to cloak it as a "moderate".
Whatever, keep pretending.
Reading with tunnel vision doesn't count as you are clearly reading without understanding.
I don't care what you call me. Only a right wing whack job thinks that "liberal" is an insult. Since I don't know how you define "liberal", and I am sure you don't either, it is hard to be offended. But if, as I would guess, "liberal" is anyone that disagrees with you, I will take that with pride.
And to be perfectly honest, I have some positions that are more often than not attributed to "liberals". I believe in a woman's right to an abortion in at least the first half of the pregnancy. I don't care who marries whom. I doubt that homosexuality is a choice. I would probably vote to legalize most drugs. I also support the 2nd Amendment as an individual right and oppose gun control. I would phase out SS and Medicare and just flat end Obamacare. I would scrap the dept's of Education and Energy and promote energy independence. I support a strong military and an engaged foreign policy but would be skeptical about committing U.S. forces beyond smacking the odd terrorist. When I did commit U.S. troops it would be all in until the mission is accomplished and then out as fast as possible. No nation building.
So if that checked off all your "liberal" boxes, then indeed, I am a "liberal", at least in your mind.
Post by: Lucifer on July 23, 2016, 08:55:40 PM
I am a "liberal"
Thanks for the clarification. Of course there was really never any doubt. ::)
Post by: Kristin on July 24, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Of course there was really never any doubt. ::)
Apparently I fit your definition of "liberal", so that works for me. I am sure that we disagree on most issues as well.
Post by: JeffDG on July 24, 2016, 02:42:50 PM
Thanks for the clarification. Of course there was really never any doubt. ::)So, you take a post that talks about your tendency to read with tunnel vision, and then exemplify it!
Post by: MarkZ on July 24, 2016, 07:39:00 PM
Post by: Mase on July 24, 2016, 07:57:26 PM
When did being a liberal equate to being such a bad thing? I thought political discourse was a good thing, or is groupthink really the way to go?
When did liberals stop calling themselves liberals and start calling themselves progressives?
I think a more accurate descriptive term for both is Statists.
Post by: MarkZ on July 24, 2016, 07:59:38 PM
When did liberals stop calling themselves liberals and start calling themselves progressives?
I think a more accurate descriptive term for both is Statists.
Maybe it is. But what is a Statist, and how is that different from a liberal or a progressive?
Post by: Mase on July 24, 2016, 08:19:37 PM
Maybe it is. But what is a Statist, and how is that different from a liberal or a progressive?
A Quick Definition (http://www.conservapedia.com/Statism)
Post by: Kristin on July 24, 2016, 09:06:48 PM
When did liberals stop calling themselves liberals and start calling themselves progressives?
I think a more accurate descriptive term for both is Statists.
The term "liberal" goes back to the founding of our country. Then liberal meant the concept of freedom for the individual. It become more of a political definition in the 20th century. Rush Limbaugh has been working for three decades to turn it into an insult, at which point it lost its definitional underpinnings. I am a classic, 18th Century liberal.
Progressive seemed to be a term I have heard applied to the turn of the century worker's rights movements. Teddy Roosevelt was one of its champions. It seems to be largely interchangeable these days with the label "liberal" though a lot of leftists seem to prefer it to "liberal" as the latter has been so demonized in some circles.
Post by: Kristin on July 24, 2016, 09:08:26 PM
A Quick Definition (http://www.conservapedia.com/Statism)
Quick and dirty. That is a definition from a religious point of view.
Wikipedia treats it in a little more depth. After reading both, I am not sure I yet have a clear handle on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism
Post by: Dav8or on July 24, 2016, 09:53:13 PM
When did being a liberal equate to being such a bad thing? I thought political discourse was a good thing, or is groupthink really the way to go?
About the time when the left wing realized that they controlled the media, the schools, academia and much of the courts. They then realized that if they made a "movement" or a "cause" out of something they could effect real change. Then they were "educated" or came to the conclusion that everything was better in Europe and the socialist ways they do things is superior to our provincial, back waters ways and set abut changing that.
Once the left did this, the reaction from the right was, "You're either with us, or agin' us!" Black or white, no shades of gray. They laid out hard, inflexible "principles" and "core values" that must be adhered to or... your agin' us. The right wing has been boxed into just AM talk radio, the internet and Fox News. From these places they provide plenty of slogans and derogatory phrases to attack the enemy with. They get repeated again and again.
These media outlets proclaimed "liberal" a dirty word and it has stuck amongst the right wing faithful.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on July 25, 2016, 03:57:08 AM
When did being a liberal equate to being such a bad thing?
when liberals started infringing on our rights.
> I thought political discourse was a good thing
discourse is indeed a good thing.
don't try to quash discourse by complaining when liberals are called out for their, um, errors and lies.
Post by: Anthony on July 25, 2016, 04:56:40 AM
Post by: nddons on July 25, 2016, 06:05:31 AM
When did being a liberal equate to being such a bad thing? I thought political discourse was a good thing, or is groupthink really the way to go?Discourse is a good thing. Which is why it is so troubling and dangerous when liberals attempt to physically silence and criminalize dissent from the liberal orthodoxy.
Post by: Mase on July 25, 2016, 06:55:15 AM
Discourse is a good thing. Which is why it is so troubling and dangerous when liberals attempt to physically silence and criminalize dissent from the liberal orthodoxy.
POA itself, and the example of shutting down the Spin Zone, typifies the liberal mindset. If you don't like it, shut it down (never mind that participation is voluntary). Force your views onto everyone.
Our wonderful open site here is the result.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 25, 2016, 07:21:20 AM
The term "liberal" goes back to the founding of our country. Then liberal meant the concept of freedom for the individual. It become more of a political definition in the 20th century. Rush Limbaugh has been working for three decades to turn it into an insult, at which point it lost its definitional underpinnings. I am a classic, 18th Century liberal."Liberal" today means the desire to control- based on their own twisted morals- everyone's lives to the nth detail, pre-conception to grave, and take from producers and give it to nonproducers in exchange for political control.
Progressive seemed to be a term I have heard applied to the turn of the century worker's rights movements. Teddy Roosevelt was one of its champions. It seems to be largely interchangeable these days with the label "liberal" though a lot of leftists seem to prefer it to "liberal" as the latter has been so demonized in some circles.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 25, 2016, 07:22:07 AM
POA itself, and the example of shutting down the Spin Zone, typifies the liberal mindset. If you don't like it, shut it down (never mind that participation is voluntary). Force your views onto everyone.
Our wonderful open site here is the result.
Well put.
Also, liberals are masters of projection.
Post by: Number7 on July 25, 2016, 10:52:04 AM
Well put.
Also, liberals are masters of projection.
Liberal has become synonymous with oppression of free thought in favor of political correctness, which is nothing but communism in action.
Rush Limbaugh had ZERO to do with making liberal a bad word.
LIBERALS had everything to do with making the working literal definition of liberal an evil word.
Kristin blaming Rush is as stupid as everything else she plants her flag in. Rush simply reflects the thoughts of many, which si why well over 20 million tune in to his show everyday.
Post by: LevelWing on July 25, 2016, 11:26:25 AM
POA itself, and the example of shutting down the Spin Zone, typifies the liberal mindset. If you don't like it, shut it down (never mind that participation is voluntary). Force your views onto everyone.In fairness, POA is a privately owned site and they can do as they wish. The result of what they chose to do is this site opening. In response, we can choose not to participate there, and some have.
Our wonderful open site here is the result.
The answer to speech you don't like isn't less speech, it's more speech.
Post by: Mase on July 25, 2016, 12:14:04 PM
In fairness, POA is a privately owned site and they can do as they wish. The result of what they chose to do is this site opening. In response, we can choose not to participate there, and some have.
Of course they can. But by doing so they showed their true sentiments.
Post by: Kristin on July 25, 2016, 01:06:54 PM
"Liberal" today means the desire to control- based on their own twisted morals- everyone's lives to the nth detail, pre-conception to grave, and take from producers and give it to nonproducers in exchange for political control.
That is the conservatives' definition in part. As we can see from the other answers, the term "liberal" gets every bit of angst hung on it about everything that is changing in society that conservatives don't like. This rather fits with the dictionary definition of conservative as someone who resists change. The dictionary definition of liberal is the opposite, someone who embraces change. While in the dictionary, those definitions don't seem oft used in conversation.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on July 25, 2016, 01:32:22 PM
That is the conservatives' definition in part. As we can see from the other answers, the term "liberal" gets every bit of angst hung on it about everything that is changing in society that conservatives don't like. This rather fits with the dictionary definition of conservative as someone who resists change. The dictionary definition of liberal is the opposite, someone who embraces change. While in the dictionary, those definitions don't seem oft used in conversation.
the dictionary definition of "liberal" and "conservative" doesn't fit the political liberal or the political conservative.
so why bring up the dictionary?
Post by: acrogimp on July 25, 2016, 01:39:09 PM
the dictionary definition of "liberal" and "conservative" doesn't fit the political liberal or the political conservative.It is called a logical fallacy, specifically, 'appeal to authority', an attempt to misdirect/cancel out opposition by suggesting because A comes from B, and B is an authority, A is unassailable.
so why bring up the dictionary?
'Gimp
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 25, 2016, 07:28:58 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid a male actually show some level of testosterone in the current PC, unisex world. Trump is not exactly who I would have chosen, but at least he understands what it takes to succeed in life's endeavors. Say what you might about him, but he is a successful man with what it takes to lead. The doormat on the other hand has accomplished absolutely nothing herself. Nothing! Being present when others achieve success doesn't count. She is also devoid of any leadership qualities. She doesn't inspire. She has no vision. She has no organizational capabilities. She only conveys that she is entitled, and it's somehow her turn. We are at a tipping point in this country, and vote for the doormat will ensure the demise of the country as founded. Individual liberty and exceptionalism will be finally, and fully traded for collectivism. I'm not sure the end result is substantially different with Tump, but at least there is some glimmer of hope with a Trump administration.she is despicable. This coronation must be stopped.
Post by: Kristin on July 26, 2016, 08:22:43 PM
the dictionary definition of "liberal" and "conservative" doesn't fit the political liberal or the political conservative.
so why bring up the dictionary?
The point is that the definition is quite malleable. The right wing media made the term into an insult, without ever defining it.
Post by: Anthony on July 27, 2016, 05:20:10 AM
The point is that the definition is quite malleable. The right wing media made the term into an insult, without ever defining it.
Wrong. The Left hijacked the term liberal, and also the term "progressive" to mean COMMUNISM. They both have nothing to do with their original meaning thanks to the Democrats, the mainstream media, government, and education.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on July 27, 2016, 05:22:29 AM
The point is that the definition is quite malleable. The right wing media made the term into an insult, without ever defining it.
I think you are confusing "malleable" with overloaded. By that I mean, there are words with multiple meanings.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 27, 2016, 06:05:49 AM
Post by: Lucifer on July 27, 2016, 06:15:36 AM
(http://www.nixonrising.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Washington-Times-forward-story.jpg)
Obama has a life long history of socialism and communism. Anyone that can read and do a bit of research on him and it becomes very evident what his leanings are.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on July 27, 2016, 07:57:43 AM
Obama has a life long history of socialism and communism. Anyone that can read and do a bit of research on him and it becomes very evident what his leanings are.
Right, and over 50% of the voting population agrees with the concept of making America more Soviet.
Post by: Kristin on July 27, 2016, 03:41:45 PM
Wrong. The Left hijacked the term liberal, and also the term "progressive" to mean COMMUNISM. They both have nothing to do with their original meaning thanks to the Democrats, the mainstream media, government, and education.
Where did some leftist media redefine "liberal" as communist? I think what you really mean is that right wingers have redefined "liberal" to mean "communist", as well as facist, hates American, etcetera, ad nauseam.
Thanks for adding one more right-wing inspired definition to prove my point that "liberal" has become a malleable term used to insult people who don't spout the same vitriol that you do.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on July 27, 2016, 03:56:20 PM
In reality, those on each side who are not extremists are fairly sensible. But you don't often see those groups on the media, even though they are, I believe, quite large.
Center right is almost always the most successful government, world wide.
Post by: Anthony on July 28, 2016, 04:54:55 AM
Where did some leftist media redefine "liberal" as communist? I think what you really mean is that right wingers have redefined "liberal" to mean "communist", as well as facist, hates American, etcetera, ad nauseam.
Thanks for adding one more right-wing inspired definition to prove my point that "liberal" has become a malleable term used to insult people who don't spout the same vitriol that you do.
Please quote my "vitriol". Where is it? Wanting the Constitution to matter is vitriol now?
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2016, 05:34:03 AM
Please quote my "vitriol". Where is it? Wanting the Constitution to matter is vitriol now?According to the Trumkins at the Republican convention it is.
Post by: nddons on July 28, 2016, 05:51:28 AM
Please quote my "vitriol". Where is it? Wanting the Constitution to matter is vitriol now?That's the "Charter of Negative Liberties" to leftists.
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2016, 05:58:37 AM
That's the "Charter of Negative Liberties" to leftists.That name appears only in Aticle XII
Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
Post by: JeffDG on July 28, 2016, 06:28:26 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/trump-seeks-more-foreign-guestworkers-for-his-companies?utm_term=.mtWe2GWx9#.jj8WXoxJ6
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Post by: Number7 on March 26, 2024, 08:00:18 AM
And BOY am I glad I was wrong.
Go President Trump!