PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on July 07, 2016, 08:20:23 PM
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/07/07/its-too-much-d-l-hughley-gets-emotional-talking-about-police-shootings-on-cnn/
While you all were here talking about "Doormat" or other such events, I was having conversations about police assassinations of Black Men.
I honestly felt it was a bit insensitive to not even see a mention on the site as I checked a couple times today. Nobody asked how I felt- nobody cared.
Well, mark my words...were one day closer to "Fuck It" like I said in another post about a week ago. See the link above- I hope you can watch the entire 9min video. Maybe you'll give a shit.
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I do care, and always have, regardless of the race of the individual.
Where you lose me is automatically assuming every single instance of police shooting is uncalled for and motivated by race.
These two recent instances look bad at face value but we need to allow the investigations to proceed.
Do you care about the ongoing situation in Dallas?
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K... What are we supposed to do? I'm not the police. Maybe we should just disband the police altogether and allow anyone to carry a gun. How about that? Would that make people happy?
I don't know why the police do what they do. I'm not police. I'm not there when it happens. Why do police shoot people? How many white people have been shot by police? I don't know. How many non white, or non black people are shot by cops? I don't know. Do they report these, or only black killings? I don't know. How many black police officers kill black people? I don't know.
I don't trust the media. I don't trust the cops of any color. I don't trust inner city black people either. I also don't have a great global solution to race relations problems. Probably fixing he Middle East is easier and that's impossible.
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Supposed to do..?
Watch the video first, then let's talk. Mr Hughley says what I would want to say. His words represent how I feel...and think...and would argue. Americans need to have this discussion, and there's much in there that he said in 9 minutes.
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Again you only seem to care about police violence when the victim is black. I have to hope you actually care about all police violence.
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Well, mark my words...were one day closer to "Fuck It" like I said in another post about a week ago.
Kind of like the snipers that killed 4 officers in Dallas yesterday?
Wonderful response (<=== sarcasm )
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/07/07/its-too-much-d-l-hughley-gets-emotional-talking-about-police-shootings-on-cnn/
While you all were here talking about "Doormat" or other such events, I was having conversations about police assassinations of Black Men.
I honestly felt it was a bit insensitive to not even see a mention on the site as I checked a couple times today. Nobody asked how I felt- nobody cared.
Well, mark my words...were one day closer to "Fuck It" like I said in another post about a week ago. See the link above- I hope you can watch the entire 9min video. Maybe you'll give a shit.
So, 5 cops are murdered and 7 injured in Dallas - is that the "fuck it" that you're speaking of?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/07/07/its-too-much-d-l-hughley-gets-emotional-talking-about-police-shootings-on-cnn/
While you all were here talking about "Doormat" or other such events, I was having conversations about police assassinations of Black Men.
I honestly felt it was a bit insensitive to not even see a mention on the site as I checked a couple times today. Nobody asked how I felt- nobody cared.
Well, mark my words...were one day closer to "Fuck It" like I said in another post about a week ago. See the link above- I hope you can watch the entire 9min video. Maybe you'll give a shit.
Why didn't you care about all of the murders in Chicago over the last weekend? Why don't you care when it's a black murdering a white? Why don't you care when it's black on black murder?
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Why didn't you care about all of the murders in Chicago over the last weekend? Why don't you care when it's a black murdering a white? Why don't you care when it's black on black murder?
I'm sure Jaybird and others care deeply about black on black crime. But let's face it, if you are black, it is embarrassing and difficult to talk about. And it is human nature to want an excuse to alleviate the embarrassment. "Racism" is a convenient excuse. But it is not entirely wrong either.
I think cops overreact to blacks because they are more afraid of blacks than they are of whites. This doesn't make it right, but again, there is that human nature thing. These situations need to be handled individually. And it needs to be handled better than it has been handled all along.
But none of that justifies what happened in Dallas. In fact, what happened in Dallas is exactly the wrong reaction. There is absolutely no excuse for that.
EVEN OBAMA SAID SO, AND HE WAS RIGHT. (That is in caps so Steingar can see it).
The perps need to be executed after a very short trial (if they are still alive).
What happened in Dallas WILL make the situation worse. But then, this is what the REAL racists (black and white) want.
It is all so sad and a lot of innocent people have had their lives ruined.
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The Fundamental Transformation continues.
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The 'discussion' Jaybird wants to have is all one sided and that's why I ignore his race baiting.
When the black community addresses itself instead of blaming whitey I will start to pay attention to race baiting, attention demanding, idiots. When the black community addresses fatherless black children born into poverty, not knowing their fathers, not having a two parent, stable home life, then growing up to belong to a fifth and sixth generation of never ending dependency, failures, I will start to care about the 'discussion' Jaybird wants to have.
As long as race pimps like Sharpton, Jackson, the criminal black lives matter crowd and Barack Obama use race to gain publicity, wealth and fame, I have ZERO interest in Jaybird's discussion.
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Why didn't you care about all of the murders in Chicago over the last weekend?
Because if a criminal kills someone its a crime. Its what criminals do. There is also a process in place to apprehend and punish criminals for these acts.
Police act on behest of the State. When an LEO kills someone it is the State killing someone. Now if it appears that the LEO is killing someone because they are black (like that poor fellow in the car) that's the State killing someone because they're black. And I can easily understand why they'd get so upset about that.
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Because if a criminal kills someone its a crime. Its what criminals do. There is also a process in place to apprehend and punish criminals for these acts.
Police act on behest of the State. When an LEO kills someone it is the State killing someone. Now if it appears that the LEO is killing someone because they are black (like that poor fellow in the car) that's the State killing someone because they're black. And I can easily understand why they'd get so upset about that.
Then why does it barely make the news when a black cop shoots and kills a white person? Where is the outrage? Or when an illegal immigrant from Mexico who has committed a string of felonies and has been deported multiple times comes back in this country and murders a young white woman in cold blood? Where is the outrage? Or when 4 black youths rob a home with a young white mother and her children there and rape and murder her? Where is the outrage?
The above examples are all recent events, but the media chooses to play them down with barely a mention. Where is the outrage?
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Then why does it barely make the news when a black cop shoots and kills a white person? Where is the outrage?
Because in the balance, LEOs usually don't kill white people because they're white. They kill them because they are an immediate danger. There have been a string of killings of black men who were clearly not a danger to anyone.
Or when an illegal immigrant from Mexico who has committed a string of felonies and has been deported multiple times comes back in this country and murders a young white woman in cold blood? Where is the outrage? Or when 4 black youths rob a home with a young white mother and her children there and rape and murder her? Where is the outrage?
It is difficult to get outraged when criminals act like criminals. It is easy to become outraged with the State acts like a criminal.
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Because in the balance, LEOs usually don't kill white people because they're white. They kill them because they are an immediate danger.
Are you trying to claim that no white person has been killed in police custody unless they presented an immediate danger to the police?
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The 'discussion' Jaybird wants to have is all one sided and that's why I ignore his race baiting.
When the black community addresses itself instead of blaming whitey I will start to pay attention to race baiting, attention demanding, idiots. When the black community addresses fatherless black children born into poverty, not knowing their fathers, not having a two parent, stable home life, then growing up to belong to a fifth and sixth generation of never ending dependency, failures, I will start to care about the 'discussion' Jaybird wants to have.
As long as race pimps like Sharpton, Jackson, the criminal black lives matter crowd and Barack Obama use race to gain publicity, wealth and fame, I have ZERO interest in Jaybird's discussion.
After a 9 minute video this is all you have to say??? Thanks for playing. You can leave the room now.
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https://www.facebook.com/uhbeautifulmind/posts/10154150269860991
Here's a Congressional video where Director Comey, in the midst of discussion about Hillary's email server was asked about Police Murder.
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Are you trying to claim that no white person has been killed in police custody unless they presented an immediate danger to the police?
No, but I would not say there's a plague of it either. There appears to be a plague of black men gunned down by police officers.
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https://www.facebook.com/uhbeautifulmind/posts/10154150269860991
Here's a Congressional video where Director Comey, in the midst of discussion about Hillary's email server was asked about Police Murder.
That question was totally out of place and inappropriate for the hearing, and clearly grandstanding.
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There appears to be a plague of black men gunned down by police officers.
If you watch the MSM outlets, yes, they make a point to emphasis this. Just as Rham Emmanuel once said "Never let a good crisis go to waste".
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
Here are five key statistics you need to know about cops killing blacks.
1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.
Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 12 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.
"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.
MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.
"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."
2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to MacDonald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.
"If we’re going to have a 'Lives Matter' anti-police movement, it would be more appropriately named "White and Hispanic Lives Matter,'" said MacDonald in her Hillsdale speech.
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story. In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:
The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.
In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City. One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.
MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Gary Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to MacDonald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.
Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what MacDonald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.
Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences.
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No, but I would not say there's a plague of it either. There appears to be a plague of black men gunned down by police officers.
"appears" being the keyword. Because every instance is played up as "breaking news" on all the 24 hour news stations and all newspapers, blogs and on Youtube.
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Because in the balance, LEOs usually don't kill white people because they're white. They kill them because they believe they are an immediate danger. There have been a string of killings of black men who were clearly not a danger to anyone.
It is difficult to get outraged when criminals act like criminals. It is easy to become outraged with the State acts like a criminal.
FTFY
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I'm not aware of anyone killed by a LEO that didn't act in some way by which they contributed to their demise. If there is, I'd like to know.
The guy in Philadelphia Minneapolis (ed) who had a concealed handgun...he messed up. I think the officer messed up too, but if you carry then it's your job to manage the initial contact with LEOs to ensure that you protect yourself. Having your hand behind your back and then saying "I have a gun" is the wrong thing to do. But as an officer, it's wrong to have someone tell you that they have a gun when they have they hand behind their back and you not having the ability to manage that without shooting the guy - failure on both sides.
Overall, I think officers have gotten a bit quick on the trigger but there IS a reason - because the people they're having to deal with scare them because some of them DO try to kill officers. And also because some of them are just jerks.
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I'm not aware of anyone killed by a LEO that didn't act in some way by which they contributed to their demise. If there is, I'd like to know.
The guy in Philadelphia Minneapolis (ed) who had a concealed handgun...he messed up. I think the officer messed up too, but if you carry then it's your job to manage the initial contact with LEOs to ensure that you protect yourself. Having your hand behind your back and then saying "I have a gun" is the wrong thing to do. But as an officer, it's wrong to have someone tell you that they have a gun when they have they hand behind their back and you not having the ability to manage that without shooting the guy - failure on both sides.
Overall, I think officers have gotten a bit quick on the trigger but there IS a reason - because the people they're having to deal with scare them because some of them DO try to kill officers. And also because some of them are just jerks.
He was told to reach for his wallet. He informed the officer that he had a permit for concealed carry in an open carry State. As Mr Hugely said, this can't be new to these officers - this can't be the first time encountering someone carrying - exercising their 2A rights. He shouldn't end up dead for it.
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NRA goes silent
http://fusion.net/story/323189/nra-members-response-philando-castile-shooting/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=realfuture
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Heard of a van that is loaded with weapons,
Packed up and ready to go
Heard of some grave sites, out by the highway,
A place where nobody knows
The sound of gunfire, off in the distance,
I'm getting used to it now
Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto,
I've lived all over this town
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco,
This ain't no fooling around
No time for dancing, or lovey dovey,
I ain't got time for that now
Seems appropriate.
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He was told to reach for his wallet. He informed the officer that he had a permit for concealed carry in an open carry State. As Mr Hugely said, this can't be new to these officers - this can't be the first time encountering someone carrying - exercising their 2A rights. He shouldn't end up dead for it.
I grew up in St. Paul. I know that neighborhood. I was shocked as Minnesota is not known for that sort of thing. That being said, I have to wonder if I would have been pulled over for a broken tail light as a older white female.
I have been watching police shootings in the news for awhile. We had a latino teen blown away a couple of years ago. I definitely think that the cops are too trigger happy. I suspect that the training is putting too much emphasis on protecting the officer at the cost other lives and the cost of relations between the police and the community.
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I honestly felt it was a bit insensitive to not even see a mention on the site as I checked a couple times today. Nobody asked how I felt- nobody cared.
What makes you so special on this board? Why should we be sensitive to you about this?
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That being said, I have to wonder if I would have been pulled over for a broken tail light as a older white female.
In the dark at night with even partly tinted windows, how would a cop know your race or gender when making the decision to pull you over?
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In the dark at night with even partly tinted windows, how would a cop know your race or gender when making the decision to pull you over?
Did you watch the video? It was still pretty light out.
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He was told to reach for his wallet. He informed the officer that he had a permit for concealed carry in an open carry State. As Mr Hugely said, this can't be new to these officers - this can't be the first time encountering someone carrying - exercising their 2A rights. He shouldn't end up dead for it.
I agree, he should not have ended up dead. But the rule is that you tell the officer on initial contact and he didn't do that. The first thing out of your mouth is that you are carrying and where the weapon is, before you move a muscle. Not when you have your hand behind your back. If I ever screw up and forget, my response will be to slowly put my hands back on the wheel and say "oops, I goofed." This guy goofed several times, first by not telling him, then by telling him When his hands were in the wrong place and at the wrong time, then by not freezing when told not to reach for it.
If an officer starts shouting at you, freeze. Ask what he wants you to do. Very slow movements with spread fingers will go a long way toward preserving your life. Don't go ahead and get the wallet out, don't have anything in your hand.
The officer screwed up too.
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Unverified information starting to come out that the MN guy was stopped because he matched the description of a robbery suspect from a couple of days prior, that he had no CCP, etc. It will be interesting to watch this develop.
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I was driving home one Saturday night last year. I was driving a little fast and a cop pulled me over. He asked for my insurance card and registration. I opened the glove box and pulled out the envelope I keep those in and handed it to him. But I then realized I had recently received a new insurance card that I just put in the glove box and not in the envelope, so I reached back into the glove box to get the new one.
Before I knew it, he had his gun in a two handed grip with his feet spread out and leaning towards me with the gun pointed at my head.
AND I AM DEFINITELY NOT BLACK!
I immediately froze and shut up and then I slooowly withdrew my hands from the area of the glove box to a raised position and explained what I was doing. Once he understood what I was doing he holstered his weapon, but he never apologized. Why should he?
If I was black, I would have yelled racism (later).
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I honestly felt it was a bit insensitive to not even see a mention on the site as I checked a couple times today. Nobody asked how I felt- nobody cared.
I don't recall you or anyone posting a thread about the Dallas shooting either. I thought that was a bit insensitive to not even mention it.
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Unverified information starting to come out that the MN guy was stopped because he matched the description of a robbery suspect from a couple of days prior, that he had no CCP, etc. It will be interesting to watch this develop.
There's always a matching description, after the fact.
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I don't recall you or anyone posting a thread about the Dallas shooting either. I thought that was a bit insensitive to not even mention it.
Dallas was a result of the shootings not the fomenting event to be pulled out of context.
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I suspect that the training is putting too much emphasis on protecting the officer...
100% correct. They are "going home tonight" and they don't give a rip what they have to do to make that happen, up to and including blowing someone away. For the most part they face zero consequences, especially if there's no video. Even if found in the wrong, their employer pays the settlement, they have no skin in the game.
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The officer screwed up too.
Right, but he'll get a pension and the other guy gets flowers.
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I was driving home one Saturday night last year. I was driving a little fast and a cop pulled me over. He asked for my insurance card and registration. I opened the glove box and pulled out the envelope I keep those in and handed it to him. But I then realized I had recently received a new insurance card that I just put in the glove box and not in the envelope, so I reached back into the glove box to get the new one.
Before I knew it, he had his gun in a two handed grip with his feet spread out and leaning towards me with the gun pointed at my head.
AND I AM DEFINITELY NOT BLACK!
I immediately froze and shut up and then I slooowly withdrew my hands from the area of the glove box to a raised position and explained what I was doing. Once he understood what I was doing he holstered his weapon, but he never apologized. Why should he?
If I was black, I would have yelled racism (later).
Yup, you goofed too.
The couple of times I have been stopped, I keep my hands on the wheel. When the officer asks for something, I tell him where it is and what I'm going to do and I slowly take it out, even it it is sitting on the seat next to me. If everyone followed these rules, there would be fewer shootings and less stress. Or I try to get things out before he gets there.
Separate your actions from those who are the problems.
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Once he understood what I was doing he holstered his weapon, but he never apologized. Why should he?
Because he pointed a gun at your head.
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Yup, you goofed too.
The couple of times I have been stopped, I keep my hands on the wheel. When the officer asks for something, I tell him where it is and what I'm going to do and I slowly take it out, even it it is sitting on the seat next to me. If everyone followed these rules, there would be fewer shootings and less stress. Or I try to get things out before he gets there.
Separate your actions from those who are the problems.
That happened to me on Wednesday. My daughter and I had driven 800+ miles from NM Wisconsin to western Nebraska. 8 miles from our destination, Barney Fife was traveling in the opposite direction, pulled over, did a U turn, and pulled me over. I had my wallet with my license and insurance card in my hands, with both hands on the wheel. He also asked for the registration, and my daughter pulled it out of the glove box.
I asked what he had me at, and he said "a little over 70." The speed limit was 65. He gave me a warning.
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So, 5 cops are murdered and 7 injured in Dallas - is that the "fuck it" that you're speaking of?
Well, JB? Is this what you were threatening?
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No one is reporting on all the riots protesting the shooting of white police officers?
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That happened to me on Wednesday. My daughter and I had driven 800+ miles from NM Wisconsin to western Nebraska. 8 miles from our destination, Barney Fife was traveling in the opposite direction, pulled over, did a U turn, and pulled me over. I had my wallet with my license and insurance card in my hands, with both hands on the wheel. He also asked for the registration, and my daughter pulled it out of the glove box.
I asked what he had me at, and he said "a little over 70." The speed limit was 65. He gave me a warning.
Holy crap, risking life for a couple over the speed limit. Cop's gotta ask himself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"
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I agree, he should not have ended up dead. But the rule is that you tell the officer on initial contact and he didn't do that. The first thing out of your mouth is that you are carrying and where the weapon is, before you move a muscle. Not when you have your hand behind your back. If I ever screw up and forget, my response will be to slowly put my hands back on the wheel and say "oops, I goofed." This guy goofed several times, first by not telling him, then by telling him When his hands were in the wrong place and at the wrong time, then by not freezing when told not to reach for it.
If an officer starts shouting at you, freeze. Ask what he wants you to do. Very slow movements with spread fingers will go a long way toward preserving your life. Don't go ahead and get the wallet out, don't have anything in your hand.
The officer screwed up too.
It's not just a rule, it's a law in many states. There is no requirement to inform law enforcement immediately in Minnesota, unless they ask:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/minnesota.pdf
That being said, I think it's a good idea to inform the cop that you are carrying. It shows you're honest and interested in the safety of both of you.
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Holy crap, risking life for a couple over the speed limit. Cop's gotta ask himself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"
My daughter and I were asking ourselves the same thing. Why did he give us a warning? We can only conclude that he had no clock on us (as he couldn't state how fast we were going, and the warning document had no indicated speed) and maybe was just practicing.
I had a firearm in a briefcase, unreachable by me. I elected not to hand my CCW permit to Barnie, even though NE has reciprocity with WI, as Barnie would be even more excited than he was when he pulled me over.
And you're right, I may have been going 7 mph over the limit, max. I thought it was a stupid reason to get stopped.
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JB, is this the "fuck it" you threatened?
“When you are willing and not afraid anymore to pay the price for freedom — don’t let this white man tell you that violence is wrong,” Farrakhan said. “Every damn thing that he got, he got it by being violent — killing people, raping and robbing and murdering. He’s doing it as we speak, and then he has the nerve to come and tell us that violence and hatred won’t get it. Don’t buy that!”
"Speaking about white people as one entity, Farrakhan proclaimed, “He is worthy to be hated.” He also claimed that “God hates,” and man is no better than God."
http://www.allenbwest.com/michellejesse/sick-look-what-nation-of-islam-leader-posted-hours-before-dallas-police-massacre
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What a racist.
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What a racist.
nothing new there.
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I was driving home one Saturday night last year. I was driving a little fast and a cop pulled me over. He asked for my insurance card and registration. I opened the glove box and pulled out the envelope I keep those in and handed it to him. But I then realized I had recently received a new insurance card that I just put in the glove box and not in the envelope, so I reached back into the glove box to get the new one.
Before I knew it, he had his gun in a two handed grip with his feet spread out and leaning towards me with the gun pointed at my head.
AND I AM DEFINITELY NOT BLACK!
I immediately froze and shut up and then I slooowly withdrew my hands from the area of the glove box to a raised position and explained what I was doing. Once he understood what I was doing he holstered his weapon, but he never apologized. Why should he?
If I was black, I would have yelled racism (later).
Proves my point. Cops are too trigger-happy with their only concern being going home safely. In addition to numerous dead civilians, this practice of the police, which seems nearly universal, creates a complete us versus them mentality which splits the police from the rest of society. They is not good for public safety and it is not good for our democratic type of government.
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Proves my point. Cops are too trigger-happy with their only concern being going home safely. In addition to numerous dead civilians, this practice of the police, which seems nearly universal, creates a complete us versus them mentality which splits the police from the rest of society. They is not good for public safety and it is not good for our democratic type of government.
What do you propose then?
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What do you propose then?
Less "shoot first".
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One can hardly blame a cop in a situation where someone who is armed can dispatch him in a matter of seconds. Unless you've been in a situation where the other person has a loaded weapon and could possibly shoot you it's hard to Monday morning quarter back in these situations.
One major problem in our society is the black culture where glorification of violence and killing is mainstream. How many Rap and HipHop songs are out there glorifying killing and killing of cops? Black youth listen to this garbage and also watch movies where thuggery and killing is glorified and sold by the same Hollywood elites that demand gun control.
Cultures take time to develop and a lot longer to eradicate. This culture of violence, thuggery, murder and drugs in the black community has been developing for decades and it's not going away overnight. And the solution is not to disarm law abiding citizens or create a national police force as suggested by the current resident in the WH.
Let's be honest here. The recent killings are being promoted by a terrorist group known as "Black Lives Matter" that is being sponsored by radical progressives in an attempt to create a bigger divide in race relations. Some can deny this all they want, but it's there in plain sight. And since we are constricted in the culture of political correctness it's considered "racist" to call out the perpetrators of this movement and we have a MSM too eager to promote them in the name of ratings and to further their progressive agenda.
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We've moved too far in the direction of cops being a militarized force that is willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Let's move back to some degree toward the police being a citizen and protector of the people serving in a relatively dangerous job. And yes, let's pay them more.
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We've moved too far in the direction of cops being a militarized force that is willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Let's move back to some degree toward the police being a citizen and protector of the people serving in a relatively dangerous job. And yes, let's pay them more.
That's just a piece of the equation. See my previous post, without a cultural change within the black community fixing only a part of the problem.
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We've moved too far in the direction of cops being a militarized force that is willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Let's move back to some degree toward the police being a citizen and protector of the people serving in a relatively dangerous job. And yes, let's pay them more.
I think you have it backwards. Society has become so violent, and criminals have become so well armed that police are in a daily struggle for their lives. Part of the problem is the culture of silence in the black community. They would rather have drug dealers and gang bangers living in their neighbor hood than be a snitch. And there are the courts that release too many violent criminals on technicalities during the arrest. IT is at the point where any and every traffic stop has to be considered a potential life threatening situation.
I don't know what the solution is, but disarming the cops without giving them some other form of protection is not the answer.
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We've moved too far in the direction of cops being a militarized force that is willing to shoot first and ask questions later. Let's move back to some degree toward the police being a citizen and protector of the people serving in a relatively dangerous job. And yes, let's pay them more.
We also tend to only hear about the white cops who shoot blacks because it fits with the narrative. The statistics of police shootings don't back up this narrative that we have some massive problem with blacks being shot by police in this country.
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Less "shoot first".
So...more die first then?
Unacceptable. How about you condemn violence in your own community and condemn aggressiveness by those stopped by police.
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. They would rather have drug dealers and gang bangers living in their neighbor hood than be a snitch.
Maybe they would rather be silent and alive rather than talk and be dead.
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Maybe they would rather be silent and alive rather than talk and be dead.
A rough rule they could follow during a police stop with a similar outcome. If they are cooperative then they are alive. If they are aggressive or do things to set off the officer then they could be dead.
Right now a few in the black community are justifying everything they complain shouldn't be true. Condemnation by black leaders is the route out of this.
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Maybe they would rather be silent and alive rather than talk and be dead.
If the good people in those communities won't stand up against the bad people in those communities, who should? The pOlice? And if the pOLice do show up to take a stand against the bad people in those communities, they get demonized, charged, threatened, and assassinated. It's a circular problem, and the solution HAS to come from within.
I'm not saying police aren't without their problem children, but would YOU do their job today? I wouldn't.
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What do you propose then?
More training and refocusing. These trigger-happy shootings are not only against blacks. White, Asians, Latinos, etc, are also victims. So it is not all about blacks, though I do think that the Black community is a bit hypocritical and does conveniently ignore all the black on black killing.
Some examples of what I think needs to be changed which come from recent events:
In Chicago a police officer shoots an black male in the middle of the street who was walking away and ignoring the police's instructions. No one should be gunned down for running away unless there is reason to believe that they are a clear and present danger to someone else.
In the Minnesota shooting, the police, in the process of "securing the scene" has guns drawn on the girlfriend and screaming instructions at her and eventually handcuffing her and sticking her in a cop car. There was no reasonable suspicion that she was a threat, yet they are trained to treat her like a blood-thirsty terrorist in order to protect the police. The collateral damage is that they police further alienate themselves from the rest of society.
I submit that protecting the safety of police officers is not the most important part of policing. The more we separate the police from the citizenry the more government will have an instrument of oppression as the police will feel no loyalty to the citizenry or the democracy, but rather only to themselves.
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So...more die first then?
Unacceptable. How about you condemn violence in your own community and condemn aggressiveness by those stopped by police.
What about deaths that don't involve violence other than by the police. In Santa Rosa, a kid is walking down the side of the street with a toy gun that fairly realistically looked like an AK, but it was under his arm, pointed at the ground as he was walking along. Police drive up behind him, get out of the car, draw their weapons and yell at him to stop. Kid turns to see who was yelling, and as soon as he turned, one of the two cops blew him away. What message about non-aggression should have been given to his Latino parents that would have prevented this?
If kids have to be taught to walk on egg-shells around the police lest they be shot and killed, how can the police ever expect to obtain assistance, never mind respect, from the general population?
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In the Minnesota shooting, the police, in the process of "securing the scene" has guns drawn on the girlfriend and screaming instructions at her and eventually handcuffing her and sticking her in a cop car.
She was sitting next to a guy who had a gun on his lap and kept reaching toward him.
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I think you have it backwards. Society has become so violent, and criminals have become so well armed that police are in a daily struggle for their lives. Part of the problem is the culture of silence in the black community. They would rather have drug dealers and gang bangers living in their neighbor hood than be a snitch. And there are the courts that release too many violent criminals on technicalities during the arrest. IT is at the point where any and every traffic stop has to be considered a potential life threatening situation.
I don't know what the solution is, but disarming the cops without giving them some other form of protection is not the answer.
Actually you have it backward. Being a police officer has become far more safe over the years. Violent crime among others is down substantially and continues to decline. I've never suggested both sides of the equation don't have a part to play. But I do believe we've strayed too far from what a police officer should be; a member of the community, supported by our tax dollars, protecting the many good from the few bad.
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So...more die first then?
Unacceptable. How about you condemn violence in your own community and condemn aggressiveness by those stopped by police.
If the cops shoot everyone on sight, none of them will die. Obviously no one wants that extreme. I just suggest we've moved too far toward that end of the spectrum, starting with the Reagan administration and bringing us to the militarized forces we have today.
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Well, JB? Is this what you were threatening?
I don't make threats. I just know what can happen when you push people. It's simple human nature to eventually push back and no amount of "turn the other cheek" religion can undo nature.
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She was sitting next to a guy who had a gun on his lap and kept reaching toward him.
Were you there? How do you know this?
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It is on the video.
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It is on the video.
I watched the video. The whole one on youtube, not the edited portions on the MSM. I didn't see anything that looked particularly suspicious, other than she was a bit calmer than I would have expected, but then, everyone handles shock and stress in different ways.
I can see asking her to get out of the care and to keep her hands in site, but it should be done in a matter to ramp down tensions, not ramp them up.
The PR battle matters too. Just ask the officers hit by bottles and rocks last night if they think it was worth it making the situation more inflammatory, just for some minute increase in officer safety.
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One can hardly blame a cop in a situation where someone who is armed can dispatch him in a matter of seconds. Unless you've been in a situation where the other person has a loaded weapon and could possibly shoot you it's hard to Monday morning quarter back in these situations.
One major problem in our society is the black culture where glorification of violence and killing is mainstream. How many Rap and HipHop songs are out there glorifying killing and killing of cops? Black youth listen to this garbage and also watch movies where thuggery and killing is glorified and sold by the same Hollywood elites that demand gun control.
Cultures take time to develop and a lot longer to eradicate. This culture of violence, thuggery, murder and drugs in the black community has been developing for decades and it's not going away overnight. And the solution is not to disarm law abiding citizens or create a national police force as suggested by the current resident in the WH.
Let's be honest here. The recent killings are being promoted by a terrorist group known as "Black Lives Matter" that is being sponsored by radical progressives in an attempt to create a bigger divide in race relations. Some can deny this all they want, but it's there in plain sight. And since we are constricted in the culture of political correctness it's considered "racist" to call out the perpetrators of this movement and we have a MSM too eager to promote them in the name of ratings and to further their progressive agenda.
This is just dripping with so much racial stereotyping...
Your hood is showing
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/anonymous-kkk.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
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What about deaths that don't involve violence other than by the police. In Santa Rosa, a kid is walking down the side of the street with a toy gun that fairly realistically looked like an AK, but it was under his arm, pointed at the ground as he was walking along. Police drive up behind him, get out of the car, draw their weapons and yell at him to stop. Kid turns to see who was yelling, and as soon as he turned, one of the two cops blew him away. What message about non-aggression should have been given to his Latino parents that would have prevented this?
If kids have to be taught to walk on egg-shells around the police lest they be shot and killed, how can the police ever expect to obtain assistance, never mind respect, from the general population?
Contrast with this
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLgvPPoUwAEHfU-.png)
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Actually you have it backward. Being a police officer has become far more safe over the years. Violent crime among others is down substantially and continues to decline. I've never suggested both sides of the equation don't have a part to play. But I do believe we've strayed too far from what a police officer should be; a member of the community, supported by our tax dollars, protecting the many good from the few bad.
Correct. The stats show that police is a safe job.
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Correct. The stats show that police is a safe job.
an illustration of the lack of understanding of what "safe" means.
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What about deaths that don't involve violence other than by the police. In Santa Rosa, a kid is walking down the side of the street with a toy gun that fairly realistically looked like an AK, but it was under his arm, pointed at the ground as he was walking along. Police drive up behind him, get out of the car, draw their weapons and yell at him to stop. Kid turns to see who was yelling, and as soon as he turned, one of the two cops blew him away. What message about non-aggression should have been given to his Latino parents that would have prevented this?
If kids have to be taught to walk on egg-shells around the police lest they be shot and killed, how can the police ever expect to obtain assistance, never mind respect, from the general population?
Why on earth would an officer in LA believe that a young kid would be carrying a machine gun down the street? LA banned all semiautomatic weapons in 1989, why would officers believe a kid would have an AK walking down the street?
In this case, the officer did shoot too quickly. But it is not the usual situation when an officer shoots someone. I agree training is needed to dial back the quick response but most shootings are not caused by shooting.
Bottom line though, officers have guns. If you freak them out, if you push, if you have a gun, then they could see you as a threat. Yes, you should be walking on eggshells around officers because, whether they like it or not, they have a flashing neon sign over then head that says "I can shoot you". For your safety in that situation, you should either advocate disarming the police or being very careful, slow and deliberate with your actions around them.
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I don't make threats. I just know what can happen when you push people. It's simple human nature to eventually push back and no amount of "turn the other cheek" religion can undo nature.
Is the murder of 5 cops and the injury of 7 more what you consider "fuck it"?
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This is just dripping with so much racial stereotyping...
Your hood is showing
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/anonymous-kkk.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
No, you are nothing but a race hustler. No matter what is said, what is done you still feel the need to blame someone, anyone that is not black.
You refuse to be a part of the solution, rather you are a part of the problem.
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In the Castile shooting the GF streaming the video said they were pulled over for a tail light infraction yet, even Snopes says he was pulled over due to a BOLO from a robbery.
It also fun to watch Snopes work so hard to twist things around so they can call something False.
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Why on earth would an officer in LA believe that a young kid would be carrying a machine gun down the street? LA banned all semiautomatic weapons in 1989, why would officers believe a kid would have an AK walking down the street?
In this case, the officer did shoot too quickly. But it is not the usual situation when an officer shoots someone. I agree training is needed to dial back the quick response but most shootings are not caused by shooting.
Bottom line though, officers have guns. If you freak them out, if you push, if you have a gun, then they could see you as a threat. Yes, you should be walking on eggshells around officers because, whether they like it or not, they have a flashing neon sign over then head that says "I can shoot you". For your safety in that situation, you should either advocate disarming the police or being very careful, slow and deliberate with your actions around them.
I don't know about LA. I was talking about Santa Rosa. They are not exactly close to each other.
I don't think anyone should have to wonder if they are freaking out an officer of the law. Bad guys know that they should be on egg shells. The average teenager should not have walk on eggshells around the police. Gangbangers should know that they need to.
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an illustration of the lack of understanding of what "safe" means.
Not really, though it does depend on your definition of safe. Police work is less likely to kill you than many occupations, including garbage man, truck driver, and farmer. Indeed, the homicide rate for police is less than that of the general population. Now I certainly don't contend that being a police officer is the same type of safe as knitting, but the false narrative that being a cop means daily risk of life doesn't help matters.
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an illustration of the lack of understanding of what "safe" means.
http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/
Pay attention to #3 and #15.
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What happened to our resident former cop? Id like to compare a few ideas. Like this:
The Marines taught me weapons handling, trigger and muzzle discipline and the ability to take a man down at 500yards away using an open sighted weapon. And I perform the task VERY well in the cold and wet- the worst conditions for accuracy.
After 9/11 I was given a task, Marine Security Guard, Corporal of the Guard. It was an armed post, I didn't carry a weapon but those above and below my billet did. But I was responsible for the training and decision making of those young men and for every round fired; I was told in no uncertain terms that MY career was on the line on this assignment. The deck was stacked with a mixed bag, one Marine I wouldn't trust with a slingshot but I was forced to work with him and put him on post. All my Marines performed admirably. They were armed and charged with the duty to challenge any and all who approached. It was stressful for all of us, just a few days after 9/11.
Why is it that we trust 18-19 year old with automatic weapons, bandoliers of rounds, grenade launchers, etc yet we can't seem to get good decision making from supposedly trained, mature, educated peace officers.
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I watched the video. The whole one on youtube, not the edited portions on the MSM. I didn't see anything that looked particularly suspicious, other than she was a bit calmer than I would have expected, but then, everyone handles shock and stress in different ways.
I can see asking her to get out of the care and to keep her hands in site, but it should be done in a matter to ramp down tensions, not ramp them up.
The PR battle matters too. Just ask the officers hit by bottles and rocks last night if they think it was worth it making the situation more inflammatory, just for some minute increase in officer safety.
Are you trained in dealing with situations like this? You have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking this, saying you didn't see anything that looked suspicious on the video. In the moment of the incident, the police didn't have that luxury. When someone is sitting in a vehicle and you can't see their hands (and even if you can sometimes) you don't know if they have a weapon that they can easily grab or not. If you let your guard down it only takes a mere second to grab that gun and shoot the cop. The cop already had to fire his weapon to begin with so there is a reasonable chance that he may have to again. Until the person is out of the car and you have control of the situation, cops don't take chances.
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What happened to our resident former cop?
He left because of the lack of civil discourse displayed by some on this site.
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After a 9 minute video this is all you have to say??? Thanks for playing. You can leave the room now.
You have an unnatural need to play make believe and pretend that every - real or imagined - incident is racist and that it affects you. That kind of reminds me of the people who just have to drive out on the interstate and leave teddy bears at the scene of accidents. The drama seems to draw you like a fly to garbage.
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No, you are nothing but a race hustler. No matter what is said, what is done you still feel the need to blame someone, anyone that is not black.
You refuse to be a part of the solution, rather you are a part of the problem.
You have an unnatural need to play make believe and pretend that every - real or imagined - incident is racist and that it affects you. That kind of reminds me of the people who just have to drive out on the interstate and leave teddy bears at the scene of accidents. The drama seems to draw you like a fly to garbage.
I wonder if our admin can tell us if these two accounts are using the same IP.
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I wonder if our admin can tell us if these two accounts are using the same IP.
Look who's talking about sock puppets!
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I wonder if our admin can tell us if these two accounts are using the same IP.
Send him a PM and ask him.
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"Nicest kid you could ever meet" breaks into cop's home, gets shot dead:
http://www.gopusa.com/?p=12337?omhide=true (http://www.gopusa.com/?p=12337?omhide=true)
"LAKESHIRE, Mo. (AP) — An off-duty St. Louis County police officer fatally shot a man as he was trying to enter the officer’s home Saturday evening, police said.
Police said the off-duty officer, who was not identified, shot and killed 20-year-old Tyler Gebhard after he threw a 50-pound concrete planter through a window to enter the Lakeshire home, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
According to police, Gebhard was known to the family and had recently made online threats toward it and “uninvolved members of the community.”"
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Are you trained in dealing with situations like this?
No, but I do know what a gun looks like.
You have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking this, saying you didn't see anything that looked suspicious on the video.
You were the one that claimed that there was something on that tape that justified the treatment of the girlfriend, but you haven't bothered to point out what. It seems that you are the one Monday morning quarterbacking this one.
In the moment of the incident, the police didn't have that luxury. When someone is sitting in a vehicle and you can't see their hands (and even if you can sometimes) you don't know if they have a weapon that they can easily grab or not. If you let your guard down it only takes a mere second to grab that gun and shoot the cop. The cop already had to fire his weapon to begin with so there is a reasonable chance that he may have to again. Until the person is out of the car and you have control of the situation, cops don't take chances.
You have now justified the cops shooting any person they run across if the officer can't see their hands. We pay police to take some chances.
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Do keep in mind that more police officers kill themselves than are killed by firearms and traffic accidents combined. There truly are more dangerous jobs.
Them again, I suspect most cops get pretty beat up by the time they get to my age, having got physically manhandle suspects. On the other hand all the organic chemists I've known died young of cancer. Professions all have their down sides.
Of course, LEOs are mostly public employees with the benefits thereof. Job can't be that bad, I hear all the time about pilot shortages, but I've never heard of a police shortage.
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This is just dripping with so much racial stereotyping...
Your hood is showing
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/anonymous-kkk.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
Whenever you run out of intelligent thoughts ( which is pretty fast most fo the time) you resort to the racist dog whistle.
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No, but I do know what a gun looks like.
You were the one that claimed that there was something on that tape that justified the treatment of the girlfriend, but you haven't bothered to point out what. It seems that you are the one Monday morning quarterbacking this one.
You have now justified the cops shooting any person they run across if the officer can't see their hands. We pay police to take some chances.
No we don't. We pay them to confront and control the bad guys.
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We pay police to take some chances.
No we don't. We pay them to confront and control the bad guys.
And it's something that we don't want untrained people doing right? That's involves risk doesn't it? They all know their jobs may require their lives someday, just as I knew that when I took my Oath to Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States. I'm lucky to make it out alive.
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No, but I do know what a gun looks like.
Excellent. Cops do as well. What they can't see is what is hidden and what is being reached for when hands aren't visible. You're trying to justify a police officer holstering his weapon when the "main" suspect is incapacitated (detained, dead, etc.) and it just doesn't work like that.
You were the one that claimed that there was something on that tape that justified the treatment of the girlfriend, but you haven't bothered to point out what. It seems that you are the one Monday morning quarterbacking this one.
The fact that the police officer had to use his firearm proves that he has to treat everyone in the vehicle with the same threat mentality because he doesn't know what is in that vehicle. Whether the officer was right or wrong to use his firearm is an entirely different issue; in the heat of the moment after the discharge, he has to assume others are armed and thus will not lower his weapon until the situation is under control and everyone is cleared of weapons.
You have now justified the cops shooting any person they run across if the officer can't see their hands. We pay police to take some chances.
Not even close. The police officer, this case, thought the guy was going for a gun and decided to shoot. Was it wrong? I wasn't there. We're talking about a decision that had to be made in a second or less; that's not a lot of time. Sometimes cops get it wrong and they pay the price for that. If that's the case, then we'll see the consequences.
Don't jump to conclusions on this based on what limited knowledge we have, including the video. The video only shows the after math and what the screaming lady had to say, not what happened in the lead up to that. Look back at the other cases where it turns out the cop made the right decision, such as Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. Remember the initial reports? He was accused of shooting a guy in the back when in fact that wasn't anywhere close to the truth.
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No we don't. We pay them to confront and control the bad guys.
Which by definition requires taking some chances. As I mentioned previously, we pay them to protect the many good from the few bad. That means, at times, that the individual personal safety of the officer is not necessarily paramount. There is a balance that can be had, and I think we might be out of balance.
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Which by definition requires taking some chances. As I mentioned previously, we pay them to protect the many good from the few bad. That means, at times, that the individual personal safety of the officer is not necessarily paramount. There is a balance that can be had, and I think we might be out of balance.
Out of balance? Perhaps, but I disagree.
How many traffic stops are made on a daily basis?
How many "go bad"? How often is the cop at fault?
I don't know the answers to these, but I would bet your life's savings that the ratio of cop transgression to total traffic stops is infinitesimal.
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I wonder if our admin can tell us if these two accounts are using the same IP.
Would it really matter? Its not real hard to hide your IP address if you really want to.
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Do keep in mind that more police officers kill themselves than are killed by firearms and traffic accidents combined. There truly are more dangerous jobs.
Them again, I suspect most cops get pretty beat up by the time they get to my age, having got physically manhandle suspects. On the other hand all the organic chemists I've known died young of cancer. Professions all have their down sides.
Of course, LEOs are mostly public employees with the benefits thereof. Job can't be that bad, I hear all the time about pilot shortages, but I've never heard of a police shortage.
The highest paid official in my county last year was a police officer who racked up a ton of overtime. Numerous others were up there. I think that they also get to retire at 55 with pretty much full pay and bennies, including health care.
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No we don't. We pay them to confront and control the bad guys.
You can't do one without the other. If we paid them not to take any chances, they would spend their shift playing cards in the station house. Policing is a risk. Not an unmanageable one as the statistic show. I have little doubt that better training and oversight would reduce the body count.
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Excellent. Cops do as well. What they can't see is what is hidden and what is being reached for when hands aren't visible. You're trying to justify a police officer holstering his weapon when the "main" suspect is incapacitated (detained, dead, etc.) and it just doesn't work like that.
I have not trying to justify holstering or unholstering a weapon. I am talking about how they treated the girlfriend and her kid after a very questionable stop in the first place and then a shooting that does not appear to have been necessary.
The fact that the police officer had to use his firearm proves that he has to treat everyone in the vehicle with the same threat mentality because he doesn't know what is in that vehicle. Whether the officer was right or wrong to use his firearm is an entirely different issue; in the heat of the moment after the discharge, he has to assume others are armed and thus will not lower his weapon until the situation is under control and everyone is cleared of weapons.
We disagree as to whether he had to shoot the guy, though both of us are working on incomplete evidence at this point. I recognize that fact and am willing to let the investigation take its course, but my overarching point is, and has been, that the cops, nationwide, are too trigger happy. I think changes need to be made, though the black community is not entirely blameless in this whole thing either.
Not even close. The police officer, this case, thought the guy was going for a gun and decided to shoot. Was it wrong? I wasn't there. We're talking about a decision that had to be made in a second or less; that's not a lot of time. Sometimes cops get it wrong and they pay the price for that. If that's the case, then we'll see the consequences.
How do you know what the officer was thinking? Do you have some sort of Jedi mind $hit working for you? Regardless of what he is thinking, humans are capable of assessing a situation and reacting in a fraction of a seat. A ball player has half a second to decide whether to swing at a pitch. The cop, with his gun drawn, can decide and pull a trigger in less. If a cop can see a gun, then he/she will know whether it is pointed in his direction or not.
In the Alden Sterling case, the officers claim they saw him reaching for a gun. It would seem to me likely that it would take more time to draw your weapon and shoot than to grab the hand, considering both cops were on top of the guy.
Don't jump to conclusions on this based on what limited knowledge we have, including the video. The video only shows the after math and what the screaming lady had to say, not what happened in the lead up to that. Look back at the other cases where it turns out the cop made the right decision, such as Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. Remember the initial reports? He was accused of shooting a guy in the back when in fact that wasn't anywhere close to the truth.
More times than not, the police will be justified, but it needs to be fewer than that. Brown was a case where the black community has to take most of the fault. Not the least as many of the witnesses lied to stoke the racial tensions and then of course they rioted, burning out their own community which is a bit of insanity.
I haven't jumped to any conclusion about whether the Minnesota shooting was justified. It smells bad, but time will tell. I question the justification for pulling him over in the first place and I believe that they were way, way too aggressive with the GF and her child when trying to "secure" the scene. My point about the cops shooting people was a generalized one, based on dozens of incidents over the last few years, that they are too trigger-happy and I believe that they need more tactical training and probably other reforms as well.
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Excellent. Cops do as well. What they can't see is what is hidden and what is being reached for when hands aren't visible. You're trying to justify a police officer holstering his weapon when the "main" suspect is incapacitated (detained, dead, etc.) and it just doesn't work like that.
The fact that the police officer had to use his firearm proves that he has to treat everyone in the vehicle with the same threat mentality because he doesn't know what is in that vehicle. Whether the officer was right or wrong to use his firearm is an entirely different issue; in the heat of the moment after the discharge, he has to assume others are armed and thus will not lower his weapon until the situation is under control and everyone is cleared of weapons.
1- your logic is flawed in the bold
2- I've already covered that my training is NOT in LE, but I was assigned to an MP unit during my time in the Corps. Police are different in the weapons handling rules that we observed which included
a. Muzzle in a safe direction until and unless a threat has been identified and you intend to engage
b. finger in the safe position (straight and off the trigger) until the decision to fire has been made
c. weapon on safe until time to engage (probably not applicable to LEO)
As a person with weapons training (rifles, pistols and the really heavy & fun stuff), I see the way LEOs handle their side-arms as an open invitation to "making mistakes", like the case of the young lady asleep in her bed and a cops gun "just going off". We were taught (and I believe with all my heart and mind) that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE. Guns just don't "go off" by themselves.
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I have not trying to justify holstering or unholstering a weapon. I am talking about how they treated the girlfriend and her kid after a very questionable stop in the first place and then a shooting that does not appear to have been necessary.
We disagree as to whether he had to shoot the guy, though both of us are working on incomplete evidence at this point. I recognize that fact and am willing to let the investigation take its course, but my overarching point is, and has been, that the cops, nationwide, are too trigger happy. I think changes need to be made, though the black community is not entirely blameless in this whole thing either.
How do you know what the officer was thinking? Do you have some sort of Jedi mind $hit working for you? Regardless of what he is thinking, humans are capable of assessing a situation and reacting in a fraction of a seat. A ball player has half a second to decide whether to swing at a pitch. The cop, with his gun drawn, can decide and pull a trigger in less. If a cop can see a gun, then he/she will know whether it is pointed in his direction or not.
In the Alden Sterling case, the officers claim they saw him reaching for a gun. It would seem to me likely that it would take more time to draw your weapon and shoot than to grab the hand, considering both cops were on top of the guy.
More times than not, the police will be justified, but it needs to be fewer than that. Brown was a case where the black community has to take most of the fault. Not the least as many of the witnesses lied to stoke the racial tensions and then of course they rioted, burning out their own community which is a bit of insanity.
I haven't jumped to any conclusion about whether the Minnesota shooting was justified. It smells bad, but time will tell. I question the justification for pulling him over in the first place and I believe that they were way, way too aggressive with the GF and her child when trying to "secure" the scene. My point about the cops shooting people was a generalized one, based on dozens of incidents over the last few years, that they are too trigger-happy and I believe that they need more tactical training and probably other reforms as well.
Really? How do you justify indicting "the black community"? Do you need a hood too?
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Really? How do you justify indicting "the black community"? Do you need a hood too?
Are you saying the black community is completely blameless?
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Really? How do you justify indicting "the black community"? Do you need a hood too?
Touchy, or are you just trying to make Number7 like me better?
I think that unless you buy the notion that some form of white privilege or racism on the part of law enforcement have taken over all free will of African-Americans, then the black on black violence that brings that community disproportionately into contact with law enforcement, has to be considered a factor to some degree.