Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 06:54:42 AM
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 07:00:54 AM
Post by: Little Joe on April 08, 2016, 07:15:52 AM
I agree completely. The same goes for Trump supporters if Cruz wins the nomination.That's what I have been saying.
Trump is far from perfect. But Hillary would be so much worse it is incalculable.
JeffDG, what say you?
Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 07:24:36 AM
That's what I have been saying.
Trump is far from perfect. But Hillary would be so much worse it is incalculable.
I've said this from day one, and I've stated time and time again I will vote for the Republican nominee.
JeffDG, what say you?
(a) He is not a citizen yet, so right now it's a moot point.
(b) He's only interested in flame throwing and fighting. And from his numerous post he has made it clear if he gets to vote he will help put Hillary in the White House.
(c) Jeff acts more like a liberal than a conservative, that should tell you something.
Post by: JeffDG on April 08, 2016, 07:41:57 AM
That's what I have been saying.http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?topic=622.0
Trump is far from perfect. But Hillary would be so much worse it is incalculable.
JeffDG, what say you?
Post by: JeffDG on April 08, 2016, 07:46:00 AM
I've said this from day one, and I've stated time and time again I will vote for the Republican nominee.So will I, if there is one. Trump is not a Republican, but a Democrat-in-all-but-name.
(a) Being worked on, USCIS received my paperwork on Monday.
(a) He is not a citizen yet, so right now it's a moot point.
(b) He's only interested in flame throwing and fighting. And from his numerous post he has made it clear if he gets to vote he will help put Hillary in the White House.
(c) Jeff acts more like a liberal than a conservative, that should tell you something.
(b) You've not presented one actual policy position other than flame throwing at anyone who is not giving your boy a BJ at every opportunity
(c) I really don't give two shits what you think of me. You're the liberal (Trump) apologist. I've consistently stated conservative principles, but as a Trumpkin you don't know what principles are, so I don't expect you to be able to recognize same.
Post by: bflynn on April 08, 2016, 12:46:17 PM
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 12:51:44 PM
I cannot vote for Trump. That doesn't mean I will vote for Hillary but my conscience will not allow me to vote for him.Then the 2nd Amendment and likely the 1st Amendment will be gone. Thank you very much.
Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 12:53:34 PM
Then the 2nd Amendment and likely the 1st Amendment will be gone. Thank you very much.
I wasn't aware the President could eliminate constitutional amendments?
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 01:02:17 PM
I wasn't aware the President could eliminate constitutional amendments?Please keep up. The next president will likely have to nominate at least 3 Supreme Court justices. The individual RKBA survived by a single vote in Heller. 4 liberal justices said it was not an individual right. What type of justice do you think a president Hillary would nominate, and what do you think they would say about the individual right to keep and bear arms?
With a liberal majority court:
Religious liberty? Gone.
Freedom of assembly? Gone.
Freedom of speech? Gone.
Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 01:20:21 PM
Please keep up. The next president will likely have to nominate at least 3 Supreme Court justices. The individual RKBA survived by a single vote in Heller. 4 liberal justices said it was not an individual right. What type of justice do you think a president Hillary would nominate, and what do you think they would say about the individual right to keep and bear arms?
With a liberal majority court:
Religious liberty? Gone.
Freedom of assembly? Gone.
Freedom of speech? Gone.
Yes, with a President Hillary I would agree. And with our current Senate Majority filled with RINO's it would only help her along.
Post by: Anthony on April 08, 2016, 01:21:21 PM
Post by: JeffDG on April 08, 2016, 01:22:11 PM
Yes, with a President Hillary I would agree. And with our current Senate Majority filled with RINO's it would only help her along.And with Trump as the nominee, President Hillary is assured, along with Senate Majority Leader Schumer, and Speaker Pelosi is in play.
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 01:45:41 PM
And with Trump as the nominee, President Hillary is assured, along with Senate Majority Leader Schumer, and Speaker Pelosi is in play.The down-ticket races if Trump is the nominee show a total blood bath, with a sure loss of the Senate and a likely loss of the House.
Post by: Anthony on April 08, 2016, 01:47:48 PM
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 01:52:57 PM
I wonder if Cruz can pull it off. This is an effed up election.There is chatter that if it appears Trump will not make 1237, and if he is faced with the prospect of going into Cleveland with no round #1 win, he may drop out after NY to avoid the sting of a loss in a round #2 vote.
If anyone hates a loser, it's Trump. I do think he'd rather quit than lose.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 08, 2016, 02:01:57 PM
I cannot vote for Trump. That doesn't mean I will vote for Hillary but my conscience will not allow me to vote for him.
So you vote for Hillary by default.
Purists like you gave us two terms of Obama.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 08, 2016, 02:04:04 PM
What Stan said. Four far left, radical anti 2A judges will neuter the 2A, and essentially take our God given rights to defend ourselves. One Supreme Court case will do this. Heck we only won Heller by one vote, and we had Scalia. We almost lost our rights back then.
We never lose our Rights. But they can and will be seriously infringed by a "liberal" Court.
Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 02:10:32 PM
I wonder if Cruz can pull it off. This is an effed up election.
The only way to pull this out, IMO, is for Trump to team up with Cruz. Cruz is still relatively young and being VP for 4 or 8 years will give him political clout to do 4 or 8 as President.
Post by: Lucifer on April 08, 2016, 02:12:52 PM
There is chatter that if it appears Trump will not make 1237, and if he is faced with the prospect of going into Cleveland with no round #1 win, he may drop out after NY to avoid the sting of a loss in a round #2 vote.
That's not chatter, that delusional.
Post by: Anthony on April 08, 2016, 02:13:59 PM
We never lose our Rights. But they can and will be seriously infringed by a "liberal" Court.
This is a totally different era of Democrats. We are dealing with far left Marxists now. Yes, we can, and will lose some of our rights. We may still have a 2A in name, but it will be interpreted to not be an individual right. Heller will be overturned.
Post by: nddons on April 08, 2016, 02:56:03 PM
That's not chatter, that delusional.Whatever. Here's one article suggesting the possibility.
http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/04/08/george-pataki-ted-cruz-poised-well-new-york/
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 08, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
This is a totally different era of Democrats. We are dealing with far left Marxists now. Yes, we can, and will lose some of our rights. We may still have a 2A in name, but it will be interpreted to not be an individual right. Heller will be overturned.
Civil War II
Post by: Anthony on April 08, 2016, 03:27:24 PM
Civil War II
I hope not, but it will cause a lot of grief, and there are many out there who would probably do something drastic. Again, that wouldn't be good.
Post by: JeffDG on April 08, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
Post by: bflynn on April 08, 2016, 05:49:35 PM
So you vote for Hillary by default.
Purists like you gave us two terms of Obama.
So you count every non vote for Trump as a vote for Hillary. You're saying that Trump is the natural loser.
Post by: Anthony on April 08, 2016, 06:10:52 PM
So you count every non vote for Trump as a vote for Hillary. You're saying that Trump is the natural loser.
If you don't vote for the Republican nominee, whomever it is, yes you are voting for Hillary.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 08, 2016, 06:46:14 PM
So you count every non vote for Trump as a vote for Hillary. You're saying that Trump is the natural loser.
To extrapolate, if no one votes for Candidate A, Candidate B wins.
Simple.
Post by: FastEddieB on April 09, 2016, 05:37:03 AM
And harkening back to those wonderful days when executing prisoners with bullets dipped in pig's blood was a reasonable technique for fighting terrorism.
Sorry, no.
Post by: Anthony on April 09, 2016, 05:45:49 AM
A vote for Trump is a vote for torture and "taking out" terrorist's families.
And harkening back to those wonderful days when executing prisoners with bullets dipped in pig's blood was a reasonable technique for fighting terrorism.
Sorry, no.
Being violent back to the terrorists is the only way we are going to stop them. I once saw an interview with a pilot that was a Vietnam vet. I forget what he flew, but he really was upset by the rules of engagement prolonging the war, and getting more men on both sides killed. He said we needed to be quick, and VIOLENT to bring the powers that be on the other side to the bargaining table to end the war.
Post by: nddons on April 09, 2016, 05:57:26 AM
Being violent back to the terrorists is the only way we are going to stop them. I once saw an interview with a pilot that was a Vietnam vet. I forget what he flew, but he really was upset by the rules of engagement prolonging the war, and getting more men on both sides killed. He said we needed to be quick, and VIOLENT to bring the powers that be on the other side to the bargaining table to end the war.It's amazing that those thoughts aren't in the minds of every General in the Pentagon. Instead they are worried about their jobs, so they are required to be worried about gender accommodations and other social experiments foisted on the Armed Forces.
I was looking at Offutt AFB's site the other day. Remember the Strategic Air Command? "Peace is our Profession?"
Apparently they are now worried about oral piercings.
http://www.offutt.af.mil/News/tabid/6037/Article/703325/oral-piercings.aspx
I fucking shit you not.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 09, 2016, 06:01:22 AM
Being violent back to the terrorists is the only way we are going to stop them. I once saw an interview with a pilot that was a Vietnam vet. I forget what he flew, but he really was upset by the rules of engagement prolonging the war, and getting more men on both sides killed. He said we needed to be quick, and VIOLENT to bring the powers that be on the other side to the bargaining table to end the war.
Nonsense, we just need to get them all jobs, then they'll be too busy to cut heads off.
Post by: nddons on April 09, 2016, 06:07:59 AM
Nonsense, we just need to get them all jobs, then they'll be too busy to cut heads off.Oh, and be nice to them. Outreach. Accommodations. Tolerance. And money. Pay them lots of money. Coexist. Can't forget our Coexist number stickers.
Soon the world will be like one giant Coke commercial from the 1970s.
http://youtu.be/1VM2eLhvsSM
Post by: Mase on April 09, 2016, 06:16:37 AM
Being violent back to the terrorists is the only way we are going to stop them. I once saw an interview with a pilot that was a Vietnam vet. I forget what he flew, but he really was upset by the rules of engagement prolonging the war, and getting more men on both sides killed. He said we needed to be quick, and VIOLENT to bring the powers that be on the other side to the bargaining table to end the war.
War is hell. The only goal should be the total and complete destruction of the enemy.
Do not go into battle for trivial things. Do not commit lives to "police actions" or nation building. Put lives on the line only for defense of the country, and settle for nothing less than total victory.
Post by: Anthony on April 09, 2016, 06:19:57 AM
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 08:26:12 AM
Being violent back to the terrorists is the only way we are going to stop them. I once saw an interview with a pilot that was a Vietnam vet. I forget what he flew, but he really was upset by the rules of engagement prolonging the war, and getting more men on both sides killed. He said we needed to be quick, and VIOLENT to bring the powers that be on the other side to the bargaining table to end the war.
Are you talking about Nazis, Japs, or ISIS?? If you are talking about ISIS, this concept is ridiculous. There is no bargaining table. You seem to think they will give up if you kill their women and children. Nope. They will fight on and more will join.
If you want to beat ISIS, you beat them by being smarter, not more violent. More violent is what they expect from us and what they want from us. The more violent we are, the stronger they get. The best way to beat ISIS, is to not play their media PR game. ISIS is the newest monster of the internet/media era. It's about gamesmanship, not scorched earth.
Post by: Little Joe on April 09, 2016, 08:30:14 AM
Are you talking about Nazis, Japs, or ISIS?? If you are talking about ISIS, this concept is ridiculous. There is no bargaining table. You seem to think they will give up if you kill their women and children. Nope. They will fight on and more will join.Why would they expect more violence from us after 7 years of Obama and his apologies and his ridiculous ROEs?
If you want to beat ISIS, you beat them by being smarter, not more violent. More violent is what they expect from us and what they want from us. The more violent we are, the stronger they get. The best way to beat ISIS, is to not play their media PR game. ISIS is the newest monster of the internet/media era. It's about gamesmanship, not scorched earth.
What they expect from us is that we will weary of the game and give up and go home. That is what keeps them strong and enables their recruitment of new fighters.
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 08:35:49 AM
Nonsense, we just need to get them all jobs, then they'll be too busy to cut heads off.
There is a small amount of truth to this. I'm not sure about ISIS, but many Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters joined because they didn't have jobs and it payed better than anything else.
Post by: nddons on April 09, 2016, 08:43:06 AM
Are you talking about Nazis, Japs, or ISIS?? If you are talking about ISIS, this concept is ridiculous. There is no bargaining table. You seem to think they will give up if you kill their women and children. Nope. They will fight on and more will join.So what does that mean "being smarter?" Do you think turning your back on hem will keep them in the ME, never to attack Western civilization?
If you want to beat ISIS, you beat them by being smarter, not more violent. More violent is what they expect from us and what they want from us. The more violent we are, the stronger they get. The best way to beat ISIS, is to not play their media PR game. ISIS is the newest monster of the internet/media era. It's about gamesmanship, not scorched earth.
I agree with Anthony. Ignore the Nazis, as the German population was not fanatical, and was more Western. But what about Japan? After their surrender after brutal attacks on their mainland, and after the 12-year occupation, MacArthur said "The Japanese people, since the war, have undergone the greatest reformation recorded in modern history."
I think we have a roadmap for how to change history for a brutal group of people, and it starts with beating them into submission.
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 08:43:39 AM
You can't fight terrorism or any war in a Politically Correct manner. Terrorists only respect force.
What evidence do you see in the world that ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or Boko Haram in any way "respect" force? Has any of these groups given up, or surrendered?
You guys still think are fighting Nazis, or Japs, or Russians. We are fighting a whole other breed of monster. They want you to throw gasoline on their fire.
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 09:08:54 AM
So what does that mean "being smarter?" Do you think turning your back on hem will keep them in the ME, never to attack Western civilization?
I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this, we are smarter, by not playing. IT'S NOT OUR FIGHT! We need to stop running around the globe and getting into other people's fights. Yes they are barbaric and nasty, but ISIS needs to be defeated by the Arabs in the area, not people half a world away.
By the way, how do we know that ISIS is so horrible? Because they show us in beautiful high definition three camera shoots, that's why. They put it on the internet and let it go viral. I ask you, why would they do that?? Why not just do simple executions of people they don't like, why all the theatrics? Why put a guy in a box and burn him to death with cameras rolling?
To provoke a response. That's all. They want a fight, but more specifically, they want westerners to fight on Arab land and they want the westerners to commit atrocities. This is how they get recruits on a global scale. If the Arab Muslims commit atrocities against other Arab Muslims, the rest of the Islamic world can't really bitch much, but if Christian Uncle Sam rains whoop ass on women and children then they have something to rally around.
Quote
I think we have a roadmap for how to change history for a brutal group of people, and it starts with beating them into submission.
Yeah, I think we tried that. IIRC, we pretty much beat Saddam's army into submission handily. Remember winning hearts and minds after that? No, we tried this roadmap and we suck at it. It's time to stop being insane by doing the exact same things and expecting different results.
Post by: nddons on April 09, 2016, 09:29:12 AM
I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this, we are smarter, by not playing. IT'S NOT OUR FIGHT! We need to stop running around the globe and getting into other people's fights. Yes they are barbaric and nasty, but ISIS needs to be defeated by the Arabs in the area, not people half a world away.I think you make my point about the Arabs in the "area." ISIS is not staying in their nice little box in the Middle East, and that is MY point. They are marching West, figuratively, not by standing armies, but by the West's open door policy to such butchers. They are NOT staying in the ME; they are walking into Turkey and the gateway to ALL of Europe. We are inviting 100,000 of them, many military-aged men, by Obama's open door policy for these "refugees" and "immigrants."
By the way, how do we know that ISIS is so horrible? Because they show us in beautiful high definition three camera shoots, that's why. They put it on the internet and let it go viral. I ask you, why would they do that?? Why not just do simple executions of people they don't like, why all the theatrics? Why put a guy in a box and burn him to death with cameras rolling?
To provoke a response. That's all. They want a fight, but more specifically, they want westerners to fight on Arab land and they want the westerners to commit atrocities. This is how they get recruits on a global scale. If the Arab Muslims commit atrocities against other Arab Muslims, the rest of the Islamic world can't really bitch much, but if Christian Uncle Sam rains whoop ass on women and children then they have something to rally around.
Yeah, I think we tried that. IIRC, we pretty much beat Saddam's army into submission handily. Remember winning hearts and minds after that? No, we tried this roadmap and we suck at it. It's time to stop being insane by doing the exact same things and expecting different results.
My preference is to kill these men where they stand, before they are standing in Chicago, Albany, Detroit, and Los Angeles. I don't want WWIII to be fought on US soil, but that is certainly what may happen. Europe is being overrun as we speak.
Do you not see the progression?
Edit: To your last paragraph, we haven't tried it since 1945. We killed Saddam's military in Gulf War 1, only to let them weasel out by allowing them to keep their helicopters which they used to kill Kurds, and other foolish moved. If I recall, Schwartzkoff wanted to finish the job. Powell wanted to stop.
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 11:08:53 AM
I think you make my point about the Arabs in the "area." ISIS is not staying in their nice little box in the Middle East, and that is MY point. They are marching West, figuratively, not by standing armies, but by the West's open door policy to such butchers. They are NOT staying in the ME; they are walking into Turkey and the gateway to ALL of Europe. We are inviting 100,000 of them, many military-aged men, by Obama's open door policy for these "refugees" and "immigrants."
My preference is to kill these men where they stand, before they are standing in Chicago, Albany, Detroit, and Los Angeles. I don't want WWIII to be fought on US soil, but that is certainly what may happen. Europe is being overrun as we speak.
Do you not see the progression?
So our goofy president has agreed to lousy immigration policy and your response is to invade the Middle East??! I agree that Europe has made a big mistake and are continuing to do so and I agree that we don't need Muslim "refugees" here in our country. However, whatever threat the "refugees" pose to us, they are only a threat by our own policies. Leave them overseas and they are not a threat. There is no need to invade a foreign country to counter bad policy.
You also make the mistake of assuming that we know where all these men stand so we can kill them all in a short time. We don't. We have no clue. Engaging in this folly is to get entangled in a never ending war of whack a mole. As long as we keep running around with a big hammer smashing things, new moles will keep popping up. Never ending war just like in 1984. Eisenhower's military industrial complex will love it.
Quote
Edit: To your last paragraph, we haven't tried it since 1945. We killed Saddam's military in Gulf War 1, only to let them weasel out by allowing them to keep their helicopters which they used to kill Kurds, and other foolish moved. If I recall, Schwartzkoff wanted to finish the job. Powell wanted to stop.
Are you saying that we didn't completely kill Saddam's army in Gulf War II? IIRC, we had control of the entire country and we stayed there longer than we did in post war Europe, or Japan. We need to give these ideas of conquer and rebuild in our image a rest.
Post by: JeffDG on April 09, 2016, 12:58:38 PM
we stayed there longer than we did in post war Europe, or Japan.Gotta call bullshit on this, as the US remains in both Europe and Japan to this day from WW2, along with Korea.
Post by: Dav8or on April 09, 2016, 02:35:29 PM
Gotta call bullshit on this, as the US remains in both Europe and Japan to this day from WW2, along with Korea.
Oh yeah, I guess that's where we went wrong. We should have set up camp and stayed there indefinitely. That would have been sure to bring success.
Post by: Little Joe on April 09, 2016, 02:50:34 PM
Oh yeah, I guess that's where we went wrong. We should have set up camp and stayed there indefinitely. That would have been sure to bring success.Of course you are being sarcastic, but it would have been better than what we have now.
Post by: FastEddieB on April 10, 2016, 04:58:11 AM
In some of the posts I see an equating of these things with "violence" - as if they're a necessary component of aggressive military action. I disagree.
Interesting recent Dan Carlin Common Sense on the topic. On my phone at Sun 'n' Fun, so not easy to link, but easy to find if you're motivated.
Post by: Joe-KansasCity on April 10, 2016, 04:59:30 AM
Oh yeah, I guess that's where we went wrong. We should have set up camp and stayed there indefinitely. That would have been sure to bring success.
Nice dodge!
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2016, 05:58:37 AM
If anyone thinks torture, summary execution of prisoners and targeting of families are good strategies, clearly Trump is your guy. And go like long on pig blood futures if you're smart.
In some of the posts I see an equating of these things with "violence" - as if they're a necessary component of aggressive military action. I disagree.
Interesting recent Dan Carlin Common Sense on the topic. On my phone at Sun 'n' Fun, so not easy to link, but easy to find if you're motivated.
They have a gun at our heads, and your family's head. Whattaya going to do? Cower, or fight back?
Post by: FastEddieB on April 10, 2016, 06:55:35 AM
More later.
Post by: FastEddieB on April 10, 2016, 07:04:58 AM
Let's say someone says they think it's wrong to torture people.
Often, there's immediate escalation to "Suppose your daughter had a bomb strapped to her, and the only way to find out how to deactivate it was to torture someone. You mean you wouldn't?"
Carlin points out that in a crunch, in dire - and rare - circumstances like this, information would be extracted by any means necessary, and those doing so would be protected from retribution. Which is very different from advocating torture as a regular policy of the government.
When we start down that road, the line between good and evil starts to blur.
IMHO, of course.
Post by: JeffDG on April 10, 2016, 07:38:21 AM
When we start down that road, the line between good and evil starts to blur.And when that line blurs, I pray that we don't have a populist authoritarian in the White House.
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2016, 09:19:03 AM
And when that line blurs, I pray that we don't have a populist authoritarian in the White House.
Or in Ottawa. Oh, yeah, Trudeau. Damn Frenchies!
Post by: JeffDG on April 10, 2016, 09:22:39 AM
Or in Ottawa. Oh, yeah, Trudeau. Damn Frenchies!Having lived through his father (may he rot in hell) I cannot speak his name without needing to spit.
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2016, 09:38:15 AM
Having lived through his father (may he rot in hell) I cannot speak his name without needing to spit.
You know, most Americans know nothing about Canadian politics, but I had to live it in the 80's as I had too do business there, so had to learn the politics. As you know the multi-culturarlism of the English vs French divide has been debilitating to Canada. They hate each other. The French are very, very liberal/progressive. To have another Trudeau as PM is unreal. Worse than Obama, or Hillary.
Montreal is a beautiful city. Drank a lot of Labatt 50 there.
Post by: Dav8or on April 10, 2016, 09:40:08 AM
Nice dodge!
Hey, if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a pedant. ;)
Post by: Dav8or on April 10, 2016, 10:11:13 AM
Of course you are being sarcastic, but it would have been better than what we have now.
Sure, holed up in compounds, sending out squads to quell insurgency after insurgency, facing attack after attack, never ending bleeding of American lives and capital, rising anger throughout the region caused by the American occupation, yeah, that would be better. ::)
You need to think beyond a perpetual American war footing. I don't think the founding fathers ever imagined these US of A to be like the Romans where we must conquer and hold to expand the empire. Many stamp their feet and cry out for smaller federal government, that we must return to the days of 1912 or something. Well, the same is true for the military. We used to have a much, much, much smaller military because we weren't actively trying to control the planet.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 10, 2016, 01:16:56 PM
Oh yeah, I guess that's where we went wrong. We should have set up camp and stayed there indefinitely. That would have been sure to bring success.
Well we certainly see the result of leaving a power vacuum.
Oh, I forgot, ISIS has absolutely no intention on having the US submit to their rule. That's just a "Europe" problem.
Post by: Dav8or on April 10, 2016, 02:15:03 PM
Well we certainly see the result of leaving a power vacuum.
Oh, I forgot, ISIS has absolutely no intention on having the US submit to their rule. That's just a "Europe" problem.
Who cares what ISIS intensions are?? They have absolutely zero power to make us submit to anything. People really need to stop acting like ISIS is the 4th Reich marching across the globe or something. As a military force they are terribly weak and vulnerable. As a terrorist group they are about as effective as any other at this time.
ISIS is a bunch of fanatical thugs with small arms in pick up trucks. That's it. All the fancy equipment they have stolen, or captured is all for show. Tanks, artillery, armored vehicles and even aircraft can all be taken away from them in an afternoon by the US military if need be if they haven't already. In addition they have no supply network to support those assets.
I know that the county I live in has suffered vastly more American deaths due to violence from fellow Americans than ISIS ever has inflicted on the entire country. Try to keep the ISIS "threat" in perspective.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 10, 2016, 02:42:47 PM
Please keep up. The next president will likely have to nominate at least 3 Supreme Court justices. The individual RKBA survived by a single vote in Heller. 4 liberal justices said it was not an individual right. What type of justice do you think a president Hillary would nominate, and what do you think they would say about the individual right to keep and bear arms?
With a liberal majority court:
Religious liberty? Gone.
Freedom of assembly? Gone.
Freedom of speech? Gone.
Those thing can only be taken away if "we the people" allow it to happen. What are you willing to do to stop it?
Post by: JeffDG on April 10, 2016, 03:23:35 PM
At one point the NSDAP was a bunch of thugs in Bavarian Beer Halls too. Would have been a helluva lot easier to deal with them at that stage too, in hindsight.
ISIS is a bunch of fanatical thugs with small arms in pick up trucks.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 10, 2016, 07:47:02 PM
At one point the NSDAP was a bunch of thugs in Bavarian Beer Halls too. Would have been a helluva lot easier to deal with them at that stage too, in hindsight.
“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”- George Santayana
Post by: Dav8or on April 10, 2016, 09:47:59 PM
“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”- George Santayana
At one point the NSDAP was a bunch of thugs in Bavarian Beer Halls too. Would have been a helluva lot easier to deal with them at that stage too, in hindsight.
What a bunch of drama queens! Let me guess... Once Ayatollah Khomeini was the new Hitler. Then Saddam Hussein, Then probably Muqtada al-Sadr, Then probably Osama Bin Laden. Then maybe the Taliban were the new Nazis, oh wait... of course!! Putin is the new Hitler!! How could I forget?!! How many damn neo Nazis are there???!!! Apparently, history is a broken 45 record on 78!! The rise of the 4th Reich seems to be like reoccurring herpes! Who knew?
Post by: Mase on April 10, 2016, 10:10:20 PM
What a bunch of drama queens! Let me guess... Once Ayatollah Khomeini was the new Hitler. Then Saddam Hussein, Then probably Muqtada al-Sadr, Then probably Osama Bin Laden. Then maybe the Taliban were the new Nazis, oh wait... of course!! Putin is the new Hitler!! How could I forget?!! How many damn neo Nazis are there???!!! Apparently, history is a broken 45 record on 78!! The rise of the 4th Reich seems to be like reoccurring herpes! Who knew?
These people announce their intentions. They are quite open about their goals. Apparently, you choose not to believe them.
Post by: Dav8or on April 10, 2016, 11:35:06 PM
These people announce their intentions. They are quite open about their goals. Apparently, you choose not to believe them.
I take their intentions for what they are worth. It's you guys that have the belief in them. You really believe they will pull off their impossible plans even though there are no rational facts to support that they have anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of achieving their goals. What is it about them that frightens you so much?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 11, 2016, 05:17:04 AM
I take their intentions for what they are worth. It's you guys that have the belief in them. You really believe they will pull off their impossible plans even though there are no rational facts to support that they have anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of achieving their goals. What is it about them that frightens you so much?
You must be really young.
What will you say when they demonstrate their first dirty bomb, and then extort the West into becoming a Caliphate or they'll do it again. Of course they'll do it again when our "leaders" balk, then you can buy your prayer rug from Amazon.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 11, 2016, 05:42:11 AM
I take their intentions for what they are worth. It's you guys that have the belief in them. You really believe they will pull off their impossible plans even though there are no rational facts to support that they have anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of achieving their goals. What is it about them that frightens you so much?
While the likelihood of ISIS (and those of that ilk) achieving its objective may be small (albeit higher than it should be thanks to the incredible naivete of a great many people), it would be gross negligence to ignore the threats posed.
Having said that, don't make the additional mistake of thinking I believe the USA actions and responses have been the best possible.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 11, 2016, 05:56:28 AM
Post by: nddons on April 11, 2016, 06:32:04 AM
15 years later the world witnessed the rise of the Third Reich, and did nothing. The result? A new World War, and tens of millions dead.
70 years later, Europe is witnessing the results of its passivity and foolish open door policy with radical Islam, and has done nothing.
Simultaneously, the US is actively ignoring the crisis that is enveloping Europe, and not only are we doing nothing, but we are opening our doors to the same problem that has enveloped Europe. And we do nothing.
We are sheep, and we are inviting the wolves in for dinner.
Post by: JeffDG on April 11, 2016, 08:30:10 AM
You know, most Americans know nothing about Canadian politics, but I had to live it in the 80's as I had too do business there, so had to learn the politics. As you know the multi-culturarlism of the English vs French divide has been debilitating to Canada. They hate each other. The French are very, very liberal/progressive. To have another Trudeau as PM is unreal. Worse than Obama, or Hillary.(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfxYSpHWsAA6mPS.jpg:large)
Montreal is a beautiful city. Drank a lot of Labatt 50 there.
Post by: Number7 on April 11, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
I take their intentions for what they are worth. It's you guys that have the belief in them. You really believe they will pull off their impossible plans even though there are no rational facts to support that they have anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of achieving their goals. What is it about them that frightens you so much?
I read this and thought you must be sitting in a pot, while the water continues to heat, denying that it's a problem.
Post by: Little Joe on April 11, 2016, 04:08:03 PM
I take their intentions for what they are worth. It's you guys that have the belief in them. You really believe they will pull off their impossible plans even though there are no rational facts to support that they have anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of achieving their goals. What is it about them that frightens you so much?Perhaps it is the horrible things they do, and the fact that people like you don't seem to care.
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:14:19 PM
You must be really young.
What will you say when they demonstrate their first dirty bomb, and then extort the West into becoming a Caliphate or they'll do it again. Of course they'll do it again when our "leaders" balk, then you can buy your prayer rug from Amazon.
What kind of crazy shit do you read??!! "Extort the West to become a Caliphate"???? Really?? That's the goofiest crap I've read in while. There is no extort the West. Even the smallest, most liberal countries in Europe wouldn't give in to the dirty bomb threat.
Since before 2001 I have read about the threat of "dirty bombs". Why have we not seen one detonated anywhere in the world? Why do you think he all powerful ISIS will finally pull it off? Al Qaeda just has too much of a conscience? Saddam and with all his WMDs couldn't figure out the postage? Have you considered it's actually harder than you think to pull off?
I really hope you don't lay awake at night worrying about dirty bombs. That would be sad.
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:20:02 PM
While the likelihood of ISIS (and those of that ilk) achieving its objective may be small (albeit higher than it should be thanks to the incredible naivete of a great many people), it would be gross negligence to ignore the threats posed.
Having said that, don't make the additional mistake of thinking I believe the USA actions and responses have been the best possible.
I don't condone ignoring the threats, I say asses them for what they are. So far they are weak and there is zero evidence that they will get any stronger. What does have the potential of making attacks here in the US stronger is invading Iraq again.
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:22:06 PM
They are in it for the long run. We don't reproduce at the rate they do. All they have to do is come here and starting spitting out little Islamist's just as they do in other countries and after some number of years they will be a force to be reckoned with. It's just a matter of time. Some things are easier to attain here in the U.S. because our politicians love to be beholden to groups with a cause.
So, let's be clear here. Are you against ISIS, Muslims, or both? Please be specific.
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:33:07 PM
The world called World War I "The Great War" because no one believed that such aggression and violence could ever happen again.
15 years later the world witnessed the rise of the Third Reich, and did nothing. The result? A new World War, and tens of millions dead.
70 years later, Europe is witnessing the results of its passivity and foolish open door policy with radical Islam, and has done nothing.
Simultaneously, the US is actively ignoring the crisis that is enveloping Europe, and not only are we doing nothing, but we are opening our doors to the same problem that has enveloped Europe. And we do nothing.
We are sheep, and we are inviting the wolves in for dinner.
You do have a clue as to how it was the spiteful victors that wrote the Treaty of Versailles that caused WWII, right??? Your premise is crap and I can't stress how much world war fucking two, indicates nothing about our future with ISIS.
I will agree that the liberals and Obama do appear clueless about the handling of Syrian "refugees". How many have actually been patriated here so far? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:35:12 PM
I read this and thought you must be sitting in a pot, while the water continues to heat, denying that it's a problem.
And I imagine you sitting there, smoking a lot of pot, getting really paranoid and imagining this problem. To be clear with you to, what is the problem, ISIS, or Islam?
Post by: Dav8or on April 11, 2016, 09:41:24 PM
Perhaps it is the horrible things they do, and the fact that people like you don't seem to care.
Perhaps it's the horrible things they serve you on a platter in super high definition to extract a response. Hey you!! You up there on the high horse!! Do you have a clue to all the horrible things that happen right here in America by Americans against other Americans every week that they don't bother to post up on You Tube for you to see???
I think if you found out, you would be calling for an invasion and campaign bombing of America instead.
Keep this crap in perspective and don't be a tool.
Post by: Mase on April 11, 2016, 10:07:22 PM
Do you have a clue to all the horrible things that happen right here in America by Americans against other Americans every week that they don't bother to post up on You Tube for you to see???
Please tell me what Americans are burning other Americans in cages in the name of their religion.
Tell me what Americans are enslaving other Americans and raping their 12-year-old daughters.
Tell me what Americans are dynamiting and destroying churches and other places of worship and ancient structures that don't comport with their religion.
Tell me what Americans are beheading other Americans in the name of their religion.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 12, 2016, 04:51:48 AM
I don't condone ignoring the threats, I say asses them for what they are. So far they are weak and there is zero evidence that they will get any stronger. What does have the potential of making attacks here in the US stronger is invading Iraq again.
How's the view buried deep down in that hole in the sand?
Post by: Little Joe on April 12, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
What kind of crazy shit do you read??!! "Extort the West to become a Caliphate"???? Really?? That's the goofiest crap I've read in while. There is no extort the West. Even the smallest, most liberal countries in Europe wouldn't give in to the dirty bomb threat.BS. They would cave in a heartbeat.
Since before 2001 I have read about the threat of "dirty bombs". Why have we not seen one detonated anywhere in the world?Because GWB kept the pressure on them.
Why do you think he all powerful ISIS will finally pull it off?]Because Obama will stand by and let them.
Al Qaeda just has too much of a conscience? Saddam and with all his WMDs couldn't figure out the postage? Have you considered it's actually harder than you think to pull off?
I really hope you don't lay awake at night worrying about dirty bombs. That would be sad.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 12, 2016, 10:56:05 AM
BS. They would cave in a heartbeat.Because GWB kept the pressure on them.Thanks for the assist, LJ.
]Because Obama will stand by and let them.
Post by: Number7 on April 12, 2016, 05:28:45 PM
You do have a clue as to how it was the spiteful victors that wrote the Treaty of Versailles that caused WWII, right??? Your premise is crap and I can't stress how much world war fucking two, indicates nothing about our future with ISIS.
I will agree that the liberals and Obama do appear clueless about the handling of Syrian "refugees". How many have actually been patriated here so far? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.
Hate capitalism much? Or do you just hate victory if it offends the progressive ideal, which is communism?
Post by: Number7 on April 12, 2016, 05:29:47 PM
And I imagine you sitting there, smoking a lot of pot, getting really paranoid and imagining this problem.
You really hate anything that strays from the mantra, don't you?
Post by: Dav8or on April 12, 2016, 06:38:53 PM
BS. They would cave in a heartbeat.
With what do you support this thesis?? So the Europeans, with thousands of years of history and tradition, are going to to give up their way of life and their freedoms because a bunch of thugs threaten them with a "dirty bomb"?? You should travel to Europe and spend some time there with those people. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
They are not going to surrender their culture, their freedom, all their free socialist stuff and their identity because some idiot with beard threatens to blow something up. Your premise sounds like a bad Monty Python skit. "Oh bloody hell!! They've got a 2 x 4 with a nail sticking out of it!!! Best we lay down and convert to Islam straight away!"
Quote
Because GWB kept the pressure on them. / Because Obama will stand by and let them.
Oh jeez! They better get cracking on this super fearsome weapon. They've had over seven years to accomplish this master plan with the pressure off. Pretty soon their Muslim brother in the White House will be gone. Not sure what's taking them so long, the Bush's are long gone, there is no pressure on them and the borders are wide open. I guess if we're really worried about it, we could get another Bush to put the screws to them.
::)
Post by: Dav8or on April 12, 2016, 06:44:08 PM
Hate capitalism much? Or do you just hate victory if it offends the progressive ideal, which is communism?
What?!? What the hell are you talking about? You type the most random crap. I can't understand how you can read what I wrote and you quoted and then type what you did, but I guess it makes sense to you somehow. I also noticed that you avoiding answering my question to you in that post, but that is your right and option.
Post by: asechrest on April 12, 2016, 09:04:53 PM
What?!? What the hell are you talking about? You type the most random crap. I can't understand how you can read what I wrote and you quoted and then type what you did, but I guess it makes sense to you somehow. I also noticed that you avoiding answering my question to you in that post, but that is your right and option.
Actually you can understand if you know who Number7 is!
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 12, 2016, 09:30:09 PM
With what do you support this thesis?? So the Europeans, with thousands of years of history and tradition, are going to to give up their way of life and their freedoms because a bunch of thugs threaten them with a "dirty bomb"?? You should travel to Europe and spend some time there with those people. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
They are not going to surrender their culture, their freedom, all their free socialist stuff and their identity because some idiot with beard threatens to blow something up. Your premise sounds like a bad Monty Python skit. "Oh bloody hell!! They've got a 2 x 4 with a nail sticking out of it!!! Best we lay down and convert to Islam straight away!"
Oh jeez! They better get cracking on this super fearsome weapon. They've had over seven years to accomplish this master plan with the pressure off. Pretty soon their Muslim brother in the White House will be gone. Not sure what's taking them so long, the Bush's are long gone, there is no pressure on them and the borders are wide open. I guess if we're really worried about it, we could get another Bush to put the screws to them.
::)
You keep ignoring the point that AFTER they explode a nuke (thanks to Kerry and Obama's Iran "deal") to demonstrate their new powers, THEN they will demand that Europe becomes an Islamic State. And they will cave since they have no backbone.
As far as Europeans giving up their way of life, it's already underway with unfettered high-fertility migration from the Middle East. Their "leaders" should be lined up at the Bastille.
I have relatives living in Europe. You?
Post by: nddons on April 13, 2016, 05:13:07 AM
With what do you support this thesis?? So the Europeans, with thousands of years of history and tradition, are going to to give up their way of life and their freedoms because a bunch of thugs threaten them with a "dirty bomb"?? You should travel to Europe and spend some time there with those people. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.My dad earned a Purple Heart and had the opportunity to camp in France from 7 June 1944 through VE Day (with a side excursion in a foxhole for about a week near St Vith, Belgium in December 1944) helping to liberate a country that folded like a cheap suit.
They are not going to surrender their culture, their freedom, all their free socialist stuff and their identity because some idiot with beard threatens to blow something up. Your premise sounds like a bad Monty Python skit. "Oh bloody hell!! They've got a 2 x 4 with a nail sticking out of it!!! Best we lay down and convert to Islam straight away!"
Oh jeez! They better get cracking on this super fearsome weapon. They've had over seven years to accomplish this master plan with the pressure off. Pretty soon their Muslim brother in the White House will be gone. Not sure what's taking them so long, the Bush's are long gone, there is no pressure on them and the borders are wide open. I guess if we're really worried about it, we could get another Bush to put the screws to them.
::)
Post by: Dav8or on April 13, 2016, 08:42:18 AM
You keep ignoring the point that AFTER they explode a nuke (thanks to Kerry and Obama's Iran "deal") to demonstrate their new powers, THEN they will demand that Europe becomes an Islamic State. And they will cave since they have no backbone.
As far as Europeans giving up their way of life, it's already underway with unfettered high-fertility migration from the Middle East. Their "leaders" should be lined up at the Bastille.
I have relatives living in Europe. You?
Wait, before they were going to fold at the sight of a dirty bomb, now it's gone straight to nuke???! Then I suppose that ISIS (Sunni Arab) is going to get this nuke that doesn't even exist yet from Iran (Shia Persian) because these two groups just love each other so much that they would be willing to share their most valuable weapon? How is that supposed to work? Both France and England have enough actual nukes with delivery systems to poof ISIS controlled territory out of existence.
Europe has had a complicated and poor history with Muslims in their countries. They are now reaping the fruits of their short sightedness, bigotry and naivety. However, Europe is the birthplace of fascism and those ideas haven't been completely washed away. I believe there will soon be a serious backlash in Europe, we just haven't reached the tipping point yet. Perhaps a dirty bomb is just what is needed to awaken the European people? We are seeing it now with the trend to dismantle the EU.
So have your relatives bought their prayer mats yet, or might they disagree with you?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 13, 2016, 09:34:56 AM
Wait, before they were going to fold at the sight of a dirty bomb, now it's gone straight to nuke???! Then I suppose that ISIS (Sunni Arab) is going to get this nuke that doesn't even exist yet from Iran (Shia Persian) because these two groups just love each other so much that they would be willing to share their most valuable weapon? How is that supposed to work? Both France and England have enough actual nukes with delivery systems to poof ISIS controlled territory out of existence.
Europe has had a complicated and poor history with Muslims in their countries. They are now reaping the fruits of their short sightedness, bigotry and naivety. However, Europe is the birthplace of fascism and those ideas haven't been completely washed away. I believe there will soon be a serious backlash in Europe, we just haven't reached the tipping point yet. Perhaps a dirty bomb is just what is needed to awaken the European people? We are seeing it now with the trend to dismantle the EU.
So have your relatives bought their prayer mats yet, or might they disagree with you?
My relatives can't believe what is happening to their countries. They are being overrun with Third World throwbacks.
Re Sunni/Shit, remember "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Nuclear Device Delivery System:
(http://www.1-87vehicles.org/images/Misc_Trucks/isuzu_botail_ryder_lf_lg.jpg)
Post by: Dav8or on April 14, 2016, 08:40:42 AM
My relatives can't believe what is happening to their countries. They are being overrun with Third World throwbacks.
Re Sunni/Shit, remember "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
In this case, these enemies hate each other way more than they hate us. The US may be the great Satan, we are not the end all and be all. You have to remember that a group like ISIS is passionate about hating pretty much everybody that isn't them. The hate for the Shia goes back way before there ever was a US of A. If you want to fear an ISIS nuke, a far more probable scenario (although not as politically fun and cool because you can't blame Obama for it) is they get a nuke from Pakistan.
Pakistan has had real working nukes for decades. There are people in Pakistan that are like minded to those in ISIS and Al Qaeda, but again not everybody gets along. An extremist group like ISIS really believes they are supreme in the ordained by Allah terrorism business and so kind of piss off everyone else that also think they are in the ordained by Allah terrorism business. They also piss off people like those that are in the Pakistani intelligence service, or military. People that might actually help them with a bomb.
Quote
Nuclear Device Delivery System:
(http://www.1-87vehicles.org/images/Misc_Trucks/isuzu_botail_ryder_lf_lg.jpg)
Hmmm... a toy truck is likely too small. A real full sized one might work! ;) This threat and that of the shipping container is one that has worried security folks since 9/11/01. Since that time, the US has been screening and looking for exactly this threat with some pretty sophisticated equipment. None have ever been found. I don't know what they do in Europe. Why ISIS would suddenly be more successful than Al Qaeda ever was I don't understand.
ISIS is real good at attracting attention to itself and recruiting idiots all around the globe with the use of the internet and social media, but their terror operations are pretty much standard, generic playbook stuff. Get guns, get suicide vest, go to crowded place. They seem to lack the creativity of Al Qaeda. Sorry, IMO, the weak threat of an ISIS nuke in a box truck does not warrant the invasion of the Middle East... again.
Post by: nddons on April 14, 2016, 08:51:00 AM
You're right. Torturing and crucifying a Catholic Priest on Good Friday is so "been there, done that."
ISIS is real good at attracting attention to itself and recruiting idiots all around the globe with the use of the internet and social media, but their terror operations are pretty much standard, generic playbook stuff. Get guns, get suicide vest, go to crowded place. They seem to lack the creativity of Al Qaeda. Sorry, IMO, the weak threat of an ISIS nuke in a box truck does not warrant the invasion of the Middle East... again.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 14, 2016, 09:25:55 AM
Why ISIS would suddenly be more successful than Al Qaeda ever was I don't understand.Because George W Bush kept AQ on the run.
Post by: Little Joe on April 16, 2016, 12:48:33 PM
Because George W Bush kept AQ on the run.And because more and more Americans are saying "its not or problem" and letting them run amok.
Post by: Lucifer on April 19, 2016, 06:02:48 PM
There is chatter that if it appears Trump will not make 1237, and if he is faced with the prospect of going into Cleveland with no round #1 win, he may drop out after NY to avoid the sting of a loss in a round #2 vote.
If anyone hates a loser, it's Trump. I do think he'd rather quit than lose.
So do you think he will concede this week or next week?