PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on July 20, 2023, 12:06:28 PM
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So we were all lied to by agencies and individuals supposedly acting on our best interest.
https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1682053685008891909
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Yes, and they're still lying about Covid but also man made climate change, EVs, how evil fossil fuel is, etc.
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Yes, and they're still lying about Covid but also man made climate change, EVs, how evil fossil fuel is, etc.
It's a lot easier when they have all dissenting views violently suppressed. It's all about money and control. It has nothing to do with public health, climate, social engineering, or anything else they say they are working on. Simply replace any topic they are talking about with "the money" and it all makes a lot more sense.
We want you to get vaccines because of the money.
We want you to drive EVs because of the money.
We want to ban drilling for oil because of the money.
We want [ethnic group] to riot in the streets because of the money.
See? It's easy.
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It's a lot easier when they have all dissenting views violently suppressed. It's all about money and control. It has nothing to do with public health, climate, social engineering, or anything else they say they are working on. Simply replace any topic they are talking about with "the money" and it all makes a lot more sense.
We want you to get vaccines because of the money.
We want you to drive EVs because of the money.
We want to ban drilling for oil because of the money.
We want [ethnic group] to riot in the streets because of the money.
See? It's easy.
The closest thing to the truth I’ve ever seen, although I would add, “and the power”.
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The closest thing to the truth I’ve ever seen, although I would add, “and the power”.
Yes, he's spot on and you're also right it's about power and control.
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Yes, he's spot on and you're also right it's about power and control.
I mean I guess that’s tied together. They can’t continue taking money from ordinary people when all the people have freedom. There comes a point, and we have well crossed it, when you must subjugate the people to continue draining them of their money, and money is of course just a stand in for their labor and property. What is it now, well over half? Of our total earnings and wealth is turned over to government and government enabled mega corporations. Hell it’s probably more like 80-90 percent by now if you include the cost of all the regulations baked into the economy by unelected bureaucrats.
We are really beginning to chafe about it but they ensured their continued hold on power by eliminating income tax for the lower half of the population and getting them dependent on handouts, while the lower half is too stupid to realize they’re still paying every time they buy anything, and in the fact that they can’t climb the socioeconomic ladder when the erstwhile free market stifles jobs and small businesses and therefore is no longer really free.
If you can keep it, indeed.
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I think RFK, Jr is correct about the distortions introduced by having the government involved in vaccine production and distribution through the FDA and the CDC.
However, in terms of the underlying scientific facts he is quite off base. For example his claim that the Covid-19 vaccines are the most dangerous ever produced.
Of course he has ZERO training or ability to actually understand the scientific literature on subtle points. These should of course not be political questions at all. Recently he is just jumping on all sorts of bandwagons that he thinks will make him popular. As most politicians do.
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... For example his claim that the Covid-19 vaccines are the most dangerous ever produced.
kind of like all the people that claim covid-19 is the worst we've ever experienced, eh?
Kind of like all the people that claim covid-19 is highly contagious, eh?
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Sort of, yes. There has been a lot of distortion of the scientific facts involving Covid-19 for political purposes by people in both branches of the uniparty.
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People are hopelessly distorted about Covid. I went to a doctor appointment yesterday and the nurse was wearing a mask. I told her I couldn’t hear her so she lowered her mask.
I said, “Isn’t the Covid hysteria all over with now?”
And she said, “Oh no, we had nine cases this week!”
(Oh sure, I thought. How many of those were false positives?)
But I said, “Aren’t they a lot milder now?”
And she said, “Well everybody is different.” (No deaths mentioned.) “And there are all kinds of variations now!”
And I said, “Yes, just like how the common cold and flu mutates and there are all kinds of variations.”
Silence. I guess it’s too much to hope that she saw the logic there, or dislogic, of handling Covid differently than we’ve been handling colds and flu for all time.
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I was saying from the beginning of the covid panic that we were either overreacting to covid or had been grossly underreacting to the flu (anyone remember the Hong Kong flu pandemic in '68 and '69?). Couldn't have it both ways.
edit: I generally avoid "I told you so", but couldn't help myself... sorry.
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People are hopelessly distorted about Covid. I went to a doctor appointment yesterday and the nurse was wearing a mask. I told her I couldn’t hear her so she lowered her mask.
I said, “Isn’t the Covid hysteria all over with now?”
And she said, “Oh no, we had nine cases this week!”
(Oh sure, I thought. How many of those were false positives?)
But I said, “Aren’t they a lot milder now?”
And she said, “Well everybody is different.” (No deaths mentioned.) “And there are all kinds of variations now!”
And I said, “Yes, just like how the common cold and flu mutates and there are all kinds of variations.”
Silence. I guess it’s too much to hope that she saw the logic there, or dislogic, of handling Covid differently than we’ve been handling colds and flu for all time.
A lot of people are hopelessly damaged (mentally) by the scamdemic.
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I was saying from the beginning of the covid panic that we were either overreacting to covid or had been grossly underreacting to the flu (anyone remember the Hong Kong flu pandemic in '68 and '69?). Couldn't have it both ways.
edit: I generally avoid "I told you so", but couldn't help myself... sorry.
I remember the Hong Kong flu. It was a thing but we didn’t go bat shit crazy and commit economic suicide over it.
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I remember the Hong Kong flu. It was a thing but we didn’t go bat shit crazy and commit economic suicide over it.
Well, of course, it didn’t come from bats ;-)
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A lot of people are hopelessly damaged (mentally) by the scamdemic.
They use Propaganda because it works. Many people are easily duped. Covid and MAN made climate change are just two examples.
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They use Propaganda because it works. Many people are easily duped. Covid and MAN made climate change are just two examples.
I hate to pull the IQ card but since all y’all are pilots you are all well to the right on the curve. Which means most of the world is stupider than you which is why propaganda works so well on them and why it is so frustrating to us. Because their stupidity affects our lives.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Enu28K1YGz8/hqdefault.jpg)
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Have you read that book?
I feel frustrated for my husband who is very intelligent. Just ordered it for him.
Aaron Clarey is the guy who wrote “Enjoy the Decline.”
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Have you read that book?
I feel frustrated for my husband who is very intelligent. Just ordered it for him.
Aaron Clarey is the guy who wrote “Enjoy the Decline.”
Your husband. Ha! Like you aren’t.
Yes I have read it. Have you read “Enjoy the Decline”? I haven’t. I thought it might be irrelevant when Trump was elected but it looks like we are back on track and then some. Maybe I need to get it.
I think your husband will like “Curse of the High IQ” and maybe you should read it too. It explained a lot about me. I thought I was stupid when I was a kid because I could not relate to the pace of teaching in school, was never on the same wavelength as my classmates and thought something was wrong with me.
The boys had nothing to do with me because this was grade school and they weren’t interested yet and I couldn’t relate to the girls at all because I was already interested in STEM stuff while they were doing whatever silly shit girls do. Gossiping, backbiting, who knows. I was very much a loner at school (I had a couple good friends in the neighborhood that weren’t in my class) until I got to high school and found other weirdos, outcasts, and nerds to hang with.
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Haven’t read “Enjoy the Decline” but I do have it here. I finally at some point in my life got comfortable with the idea that I’m a woman who thinks. I used to cringe and squirm when stuck with girls and women who just wanted to talk about clothes and makeup and crap like that. After you get ridiculed a few times for wanting to talk about the meaning and purpose and complexity and mystery and beauty of life, you tend to shut up and arrange your life so you’re around people who also do that. But they’re few and far between, sadly. Also, I agree with you that women voting is a problem. Except you and I of course. Hahaha!!!
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Haven’t read “Enjoy the Decline” but I do have it here. I finally at some point in my life got comfortable with the idea that I’m a woman who thinks. I used to cringe and squirm when stuck with girls and women who just wanted to talk about clothes and makeup and crap like that. After you get ridiculed a few times for wanting to talk about the meaning and purpose and complexity and mystery and beauty of life, you tend to shut up and arrange your life so you’re around people who also do that.
^^^^This this this!!! Back when I was a kid, female “nerd” was not a recognized category. If you were a skinny nerdy boy at least you had an identity. You might have been bullied and teased and called four eyes and egghead but your intellectual prowess was grudgingly acknowledged, if used against you.
As a female, being a deep thinker had no category. You were just unfathomable to the other girls. Maybe it’s a little better these days since female “nerds” are a thing popularized by Amy on “Big Bang Theory” and before that Willow on “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” in the 90s. But in the early 60s you were just supposed to want to marry and have babies. You didn’t think higher thoughts or aspire to be anything else.
To make everything even more confusing to me, I did want to marry and have babies. But I wanted nothing to do with superficial things like clothes, makeup or, God forbid, housework. I wanted to clone myself. One of me would be Samantha Stevens, with the husband and the babies but the power to twitch away all the mundane chores. The other of me would be an astronaut or an astrophysicist. That conflict defined me for decades.
But they’re few and far between, sadly. Also, I agree with you that women voting is a problem. Except you and I of course. Hahaha!!!
Of course! But I’d give up my right to vote in a heartbeat if all other women did too. What happens if women on average turn around and become more conservative and men become more liberal? Is that even possible? The theory is that women vote more with emotion and men are more pragmatic about real world results. Men understand economics and job productivity and women, being natural nurturers, want to “take care of” the downtrodden. I don’t think that will ever change, it’s built into our genes.
Aaron Clarey says: Women want to marry a high earning man and then they vote to tax him to death.
He nails it, that’s the average female Democrat.
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Only place on the internet where folks miss Polio.
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Only place on the internet where folks miss Polio.
Please show us the post where someone here alluded to missing polio.
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Please show us the post where someone here alluded to missing polio.
You are dissing vaccines, which were the only thing that stopped Polio. A bit of a conclusion on my part.
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You are dissing vaccines, which were the only thing that stopped Polio. A bit of a confusion on my part.
You are a fucking idiot.
Congratulations on finding a new way to remind everyone.
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You are dissing vaccines, which were the only thing that stopped Polio. A bit of a conclusion on my part.
Actually it’s not the only thing. Better sanitation played a big role in stopping polio. And nobody dissed vaccines in this thread. What we are dissing is government involvement in how the vaccine is presented to the public. Lies, forced mandates, policies that enrich politicians and bureaucrats.
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You are dissing vaccines, which were the only thing that stopped Polio. A bit of a conclusion on my part.
Please show the post where the polio vaccine is being "dissed".
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Actually it’s not the only thing. Better sanitation played a big role in stopping polio. And nobody dissed vaccines in this thread. What we are dissing is government involvement in how the vaccine is presented to the public. Lies, forced mandates, policies that enrich politicians and bureaucrats.
In a minute mikey will be reminding us all how he is a professor supposedly teaching genetics and that means no one else has the right to comment on anything he doesn’t like.
Typical asshole troll move.
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Please show the post where the polio vaccine is being "dissed".
Oh, is Prof. Michael Weinstein jumping to conclusions again?
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Let’s take RFKJr as an example. I’m going to guess Michael would not vote for him because he is “anti-vax”. And he might assume I would vote for him because he is “ant-vax”. Anti- vax is in quotes because RFKJr is not anti-vax, his problem is the vaccines aren’t tested enough and we are giving far too many unnecessary ones, and this may be having long term negative effects that are being blocked from being studied/acknowledged by the profit motive.
But that would be a wrong assumption. (The assumption that I like RFKJr because he is supposedly anti-vax.) That is incorrect. What I like about RFKJr’s anti-vax stance is that he is against forced vaccination. It is his position on the role of government in vaccination, not his position on the science about vaccines, that I like.
If RFKJr were to favor using power of government to ban vaccines, I would be equally against that as I am against mandating vaccines. I want to be free to get the polio vaccine, the smallpox vaccine, and even the Covid vax if I so desire.
It’s not about the vax. I don’t even buy that the clot shot actually causes clots. I’m waiting for rational studies instead of a lot of anecdotal stories. For me it’s all about government and it’s role in regulating my liberty.
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Polio, whooping cough, measles and other dangerous viruses used to kill and maim tens of thousands of children every year. Now they don't, because of these dangerous vaccines you're all going on about. Yes, vaccines themselves can have side-effects like any other medication. But the rate of vaccine side effects and their severity are badly dwarfed by the damage done by the viruses they protect us from.
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Polio, whooping cough, measles and other dangerous viruses used to kill and maim tens of thousands of children every year. Now they don't, because of these dangerous vaccines you're all going on about. Yes, vaccines themselves can have side-effects like any other medication. But the rate of vaccine side effects and their severity are badly dwarfed by the damage done by the viruses they protect us from.
You are unaware of what's being discussed.
So back on topic, do you support the government being able to demand or mandate the use of vaccines?
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The overwhelming legal uses of firearms badly dwarf illegal firearm uses
Sauce goose and all that
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Polio, whooping cough, measles and other dangerous viruses used to kill and maim tens of thousands of children every year. Now they don't, because of these dangerous vaccines you're all going on about. Yes, vaccines themselves can have side-effects like any other medication. But the rate of vaccine side effects and their severity are badly dwarfed by the damage done by the viruses they protect us from.
Not in the same league. Stop being intentionally dishonest. Those are several decades old, well known and well TESTED true vaccines. The Covid shots ARE NOT.
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It’s not about the vax. I don’t even buy that the clot shot actually causes clots. I’m waiting for rational studies instead of a lot of anecdotal stories. For me it’s all about government and it’s role in regulating my liberty.
Good luck getting “rational studies” in our lifetimes, if ever, because $$$$$$$$$ tends to hide real data.
Also, look what you wrote. “… a lot of anecdotal stories.” Really? I’m seeing them too. Everywhere. In my real life. That’s empirical data, which people tend to default to when the “data” they’re being fed become untrustworthy. Those are real data points.
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You are unaware of what's being discussed.
So back on topic, do you support the government being able to demand or mandate the use of vaccines?
Absolutely, if they need prevent the spread of dangerous disease. A big part of the government's function is to keep its citizenry safe. We have a big military to keep us safe from invasion, and we should be able to use our big medical establishment to keep us safe from infective disease. As it is there's lots of things you can't do without vaccines. I don't think you can send your kids to school, I couldn't work where I do, and I'm certain there's more. Moreover, my employer has a rather large list of vaccinations required for its faculty and students.
I think it reasonable that parents send their kids to a state-sponsored school without the worry that they're going to contract an infective disease and die.
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Not in the same league. Stop being intentionally dishonest. Those are several decades old, well known and well TESTED true vaccines. The Covid shots ARE NOT.
Even then, there were well-known safety issues with the vaccines themselves. Remember, you’re asking parents to inject a perfectly healthy child with a bright future ahead of them with a product that might save their life or damage it. Truth.
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Not in the same league. Stop being intentionally dishonest. Those are several decades old, well known and well TESTED true vaccines. The Covid shots ARE NOT.
A vaccine is anything that elicits and immune response. The legacy vaccines mostly used killed virus (though a couple used viruses weakened by mutation), the newer use viral subunits produced in cells. Now you're going to tell me you have big problems with the Shingrix vaccine?
The mRNA vaccines are a real breakthrough, we had COVID vaccines in a year. That's fast, and impossible with just about anything else. The vaccines based on gene therapy vectors were good, but not quite as. It is true that they caused blood clots in a very small minority of people. Still, at the rate folks were being maimed and killed by COVID, the vaccines were a life-saver, and truly ended the scourge of the pandemic.
I'm certain you'll all be pleased to know that just about all the COVID vaccines give you a very very mild case of myocarditis. COVID itself will give you a very bad case of myocarditis. Something about being immune to COVID gives you myocarditis, and so far no one knows why.
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Absolutely, if they need prevent the spread of dangerous disease. A big part of the government's function is to keep its citizenry safe. We have a big military to keep us safe from invasion, and we should be able to use our big medical establishment to keep us safe from infective disease. As it is there's lots of things you can't do without vaccines. I don't think you can send your kids to school, I couldn't work where I do, and I'm certain there's more. Moreover, my employer has a rather large list of vaccinations required for its faculty and students.
I think it reasonable that parents send their kids to a state-sponsored school without the worry that they're going to contract an infective disease and die.
This is precisely why parents are backing off and removing their children from schools that require the dozens of vaccines the CDC says are “needed.”
Get real, Steingar. You know most of said vaccines (notice I did not say all) are for diseases that are not even contagious, the vaccines are not proven effective, and, as we are discussing in this thread, CARRY KNOWN RISKS, often greater than the disease they’re supposed to deflect.
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Absolutely, if they need prevent the spread of dangerous disease. A big part of the government's function is to keep its citizenry safe. We have a big military to keep us safe from invasion, and we should be able to use our big medical establishment to keep us safe from infective disease. As it is there's lots of things you can't do without vaccines. I don't think you can send your kids to school, I couldn't work where I do, and I'm certain there's more. Moreover, my employer has a rather large list of vaccinations required for its faculty and students.
I think it reasonable that parents send their kids to a state-sponsored school without the worry that they're going to contract an infective disease and die.
OK. How much testing should be done for a vaccine to be determined as safe? What is an acceptable number (percentage) of vaccine injuries that should be allowed for a vaccine to be mandatory? What, in your professional opinion, should be a maximum number of vaccine related deaths before a vaccine is removed from public consumption?
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mikey is desperate to hijack the discussion so we won’t discuss dr. mengele fauci and his $120 million dollar windfall off his government salary and how that is directly connected to the fake ass vaccines that incompetent assholes like mike constantly push.
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OK. How much testing should be done for a vaccine to be determined as safe? What is an acceptable number (percentage) of vaccine injuries that should be allowed for a vaccine to be mandatory? What, in your professional opinion, should be a maximum number of vaccine related deaths before a vaccine is removed from public consumption?
There are several phases of trials that involve tens of thousands of test subjects. This is all very public knowledge easily researched. Your government is far more stringent about the substances that can be used as medications than many foreign lands.
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I'm certain you'll all be pleased to know that just about all the COVID vaccines give you a very very mild case of myocarditis. COVID itself will give you a very bad case of myocarditis. Something about being immune to COVID gives you myocarditis, and so far no one knows why.
sloppy. sloppy. sloppy.
are you saying that the vaccines causes myocarditis in EVERYONE that gets the jab?
and COVID doesn't cause a bad case of myocarditis, except in a small percentage of people. When I had covid, I didn't have a bad anything.... certainly didn't have a bad case of myocarditis.
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There are several phases of trials that involve tens of thousands of test subjects. This is all very public knowledge easily researched. Your government is far more stringent about the substances that can be used as medications than many foreign lands.
OK. So let's discuss the Covid-19 vaccines.
1) Why did the manufacturers skip various phases of testing?
2) Why, in the past with other vaccines, when the VAERS system showed a few deaths caused by a vaccine, the vaccine was immediately pulled from public consumption. But when injuries and deaths attributed to the Covid19 vaccines were reported, the VAERS system was deemed a not reliable source of information?
3) Why haven't the manufacturers of the various Covid19 vaccines sought a full approval of their vaccines? There was one that did, but never produced the approved version and only offered the EUA version only.
4) Why did one manufacturer try to seal the data of the vaccines for 75 years?
5) The Covid19 vaccinations on a whole have been shown to be ineffective in their purpose. Why would the government insist through mandates that people continue to use these if the data shows no real benefits and very real possibilities of debilitating side effects, including death?
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OK. So let's discuss the Covid-19 vaccines.
1) Why did the manufacturers skip various phases of testing?
If I recall correctly, and I give a big proviso on that, they didn't skip anything. They were allowed to do some things simultaneously that normally they would do in lock step, as part of Operation Warp Speed.
2) Why, in the past with other vaccines, when the VAERS system showed a few deaths caused by a vaccine, the vaccine was immediately pulled from public consumption. But when injuries and deaths attributed to the Covid19 vaccines were reported, the VAERS system was deemed a not reliable source of information?
Used to be VAERS was used by sober actors to report actual vaccine problems, and it worked well. But the COVID vaccines got badly politicized, so anyone who had anything happen after a jab reported it. I think about it this way, our doctors offices and hospitals are full of sick people, people get sick. I suspect that lots of folks got the jab and subsequently got sick because that's what they were going to do anyway. And what got reported to VAERS was such jumble that I doubt anyone could find any commonality, i.e. honest-to-gosh vaccine side effects.
3) Why haven't the manufacturers of the various Covid19 vaccines sought a full approval of their vaccines? There was one that did, but never produced the approved version and only offered the EUA version only.
Dunno, but I'm certain it comes down to money. Could be they're happy with things as they are, they're earning lots from the vaccines with the approvals they've got. Why spend extra for more approval when they're got enough already?
4) Why did one manufacturer try to seal the data of the vaccines for 75 years?
Dunno, act the manufacturer. Test data is supposed to be public knowledge. The components of the vaccine are intellectual property, though.
5) The Covid19 vaccinations on a whole have been shown to be ineffective in their purpose. Why would the government insist through mandates that people continue to use these if the data shows no real benefits and very real possibilities of debilitating side effects, including death?
We no longer have hospitals full of COVID patients, so the vaccines seem pretty damned effective to me.
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ummm... mikey, like every other fake ass intellectual liberal, does all he can to IGNORE the fact that ALL viruses run out of steam because the human body works against it.
That FACT upsets ALL of their carefully crafted lies and obfuscations about how many people got FILTHY RICH by having the corrupt cdc and fda demand everyone get the fake ass vaccines.
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There are several phases of trials that involve tens of thousands of test subjects. This is all very public knowledge easily researched. Your government is far more stringent about the substances that can be used as medications than many foreign lands.
So you're in favor of forcing pregnant women to take Thalidomide?
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If I recall correctly, and I give a big proviso on that, they didn't skip anything. They were allowed to do some things simultaneously that normally they would do in lock step, as part of Operation Warp Speed.
Actually there was, especially if the desired results were not being met in a previous test.
Used to be VAERS was used by sober actors to report actual vaccine problems, and it worked well. But the COVID vaccines got badly politicized, so anyone who had anything happen after a jab reported it. I think about it this way, our doctors offices and hospitals are full of sick people, people get sick. I suspect that lots of folks got the jab and subsequently got sick because that's what they were going to do anyway. And what got reported to VAERS was such jumble that I doubt anyone could find any commonality, i.e. honest-to-gosh vaccine side effects.
Are we seriously discounting each and every covid vaccine injury report? Many of those reports came from very reliable sources with very reliable data. And even if we take only a small percentage of those reports as reliable, it still exceeded the thresholds of previous vaccine injuries which caused previous vaccines to be pulled immediately.
Dunno, but I'm certain it comes down to money. Could be they're happy with things as they are, they're earning lots from the vaccines with the approvals they've got. Why spend extra for more approval when they're got enough already?
Could it be under the EUA they were shielded by the US government from lawsuits from people injured by their vaccines? Remember these manufacturers were lobbying the government for mandatory vaccines and boosters, so wouldn't an FDA approval boosted the public confidence in these vaccines?
Dunno, act the manufacturer. Test data is supposed to be public knowledge. The components of the vaccine are intellectual property, though.
Yes, suppose to be public knowledge. These vaccines were developed for with tax payer funds, so the public has a right to the information, but yet when it came to data on vaccine effectiveness, injuries and death Pfizer wanted the data sealed for 75 years.
We no longer have hospitals full of COVID patients, so the vaccines seem pretty damned effective to me.
So what about natural immunity? Are you implying natural immunity didn't play a role in this?
And speaking to natural immunity, why was the government so against this concept with regards to Covid19?
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So, Michael, what is the pulmonary issue your wife is having right now? Could be there are not hospitals full of COVID patients because the mutations have symptoms like a cold and are not serious enough to even think about hospitalization.
I think, at this point, everyone in my immediate family, including my wife, has had COVID at least one. None of them ever required hospitalization. The most recent was my grand-daughter who tested positive after our cruise. I have yet to have COVID.
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Absolutely, if they need prevent the spread of dangerous disease. A big part of the government's function is to keep its citizenry safe. We have a big military to keep us safe from invasion, and we should be able to use our big medical establishment to keep us safe from infective disease. As it is there's lots of things you can't do without vaccines. I don't think you can send your kids to school, I couldn't work where I do, and I'm certain there's more. Moreover, my employer has a rather large list of vaccinations required for its faculty and students.
I think it reasonable that parents send their kids to a state-sponsored school without the worry that they're going to contract an infective disease and die.
How can you get behind this line of reasoning when the government has proven they don't give a flying fuck about the safety of its citizens and will lie to their faces about it? Do they not teach the Tuskegee Experiment in schools anymore?
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So, Michael, what is the pulmonary issue your wife is having right now? Could be there are not hospitals full of COVID patients because the mutations have symptoms like a cold and are not serious enough to even think about hospitalization.
Forgive me, but I'll keep my wife's illness a bit private for now. Shouldn't have even mentioned it. Don't know that I did.
I think, at this point, everyone in my immediate family, including my wife, has had COVID at least one. None of them ever required hospitalization. The most recent was my grand-daughter who tested positive after our cruise. I have yet to have COVID.
Of the folks I've known personally with COVID, a couple died (they were quite old, but COVID is what got them) and about a third were sufficiently debilitated over the long term to be affected in their employment. During one winter hospitals were full of unvaccinated patients, most of the vaccinated ones had a more minor illness and didn't need medical intervention. Not everyone got it that bad, but lots did.
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So you're in favor of forcing pregnant women to take Thalidomide?
It was the FDA that headed off that particular clusterfuck, a pretty big feather in their cap. Like I said, they're pretty careful about what they allow to be used for medications in America. Thalidomide was supposed to ward off morning sickness. Turns out to be teratogenic for humans.
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Once all the fake data gets weeded out, COVID was more in line with the common flu with regards to hospitalizations and deaths. Of course hospitalizations we’re up over COVID (never at the levels predicted) but that was due to the media and government fear mongering. And don’t forget the government incentivizing hospitals to report all illness as COVID.
Also amazing how influenza all but ceased to exist during COVID. Could it have been people with the flu were given highly inaccurate COVID test that was rife with false positives?
FJB warned us of a “dark winter of death” that never materialized. More fear mongering?
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During one winter hospitals were full of unvaccinated patients, most of the vaccinated ones had a more minor illness and didn't need medical intervention.
That statement simply isn’t true. What is true once those who actually had COVID had natural immunity and no further illness, while those who vaccinated had repeated occurrences of covid.
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Polio, whooping cough, measles and other dangerous viruses used to kill and maim tens of thousands of children every year. Now they don't, because of these dangerous vaccines you're all going on about. Yes, vaccines themselves can have side-effects like any other medication. But the rate of vaccine side effects and their severity are badly dwarfed by the damage done by the viruses they protect us from.
That is true one on one in terms of immediate side effects. What is less understood are the long term, and collective effects.
For example, there is now an epidemic of shingles in the elderly. The cause may be a combination of people having fewer children, grandparents not living near the children, and the chickenpox vaccine meaning children no longer get chickenpox. Back in the day grandparents would be exposed to chickenpox the disease in their grandchildren, which acted like a natural booster to their own immunity to the virus, strengthening their system against shingles. Since the culture changed plus the chickenpox vaccine, we now have a need for the shingles vaccine to protect the elderly.
There is also an epidemic of allergies, depression, ADHD, anxiety and other disorders, the causes of which are not understood, but it could possibly be the effects of giving children dozens of vaccinations, confusing their systems and leading to what I term occult autoimmune attack, like myoencelphalopathy for instance, that seems chronologically connected to this proliferation of vaccines. No, I am not thinking for certain this is the case. My point is that it hasn’t been sufficiently studied: the long term effects on the population as a whole.
One obvious one is that we aren’t culling the weaker genes, but that is true of all health interventions including glasses, antibiotics, surgeries, just about any technologically advanced solution to a naturally occurring problem. Our species is collectively growing weaker, stupider, and more dependent on that same technology as a result.
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That statement simply isn’t true. What is true once those who actually had COVID had natural immunity and no further illness, while those who vaccinated had repeated occurrences of covid.
https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2021/09/02/dr--vanderhoff---this-is-a-hospital-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated- (https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2021/09/02/dr--vanderhoff---this-is-a-hospital-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-)
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235 (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/unvaccinated-covid-patients-overwhelm-ohio-hospitals-as-delta-surges-across-state.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/unvaccinated-covid-patients-overwhelm-ohio-hospitals-as-delta-surges-across-state.html)
https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/ (https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/)
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/coronavirus/unvaccinated-covid-19-patients-fill-local-hospitals (https://foxbaltimore.com/news/coronavirus/unvaccinated-covid-19-patients-fill-local-hospitals)
Problem with natural immunity is you have to go through the disease to get it. That's an illness that kills 1% of its victims and maims upward of 30%. I'll take the vaccine, thank you.
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That is true one on one in terms of immediate side effects. What is less understood are the long term, and collective effects.
For example, there is now an epidemic of shingles in the elderly. The cause may be a combination of people having fewer children, grandparents not living near the children, and the chickenpox vaccine meaning children no longer get chickenpox. Back in the day grandparents would be exposed to chickenpox the disease in their grandchildren, which acted like a natural booster to their own immunity to the virus, strengthening their system against shingles. Since the culture changed plus the chickenpox vaccine, we now have a need for the shingles vaccine to protect the elderly.
There is also an epidemic of allergies, depression, ADHD, anxiety and other disorders, the causes of which are not understood, but it could possibly be the effects of giving children dozens of vaccinations, confusing their systems and leading to what I term occult autoimmune attack, like myoencelphalopathy for instance, that seems chronologically connected to this proliferation of vaccines. No, I am not thinking for certain this is the case. My point is that it hasn’t been sufficiently studied: the long term effects on the population as a whole.
One obvious one is that we aren’t culling the weaker genes, but that is true of all health interventions including glasses, antibiotics, surgeries, just about any technologically advanced solution to a naturally occurring problem. Our species is collectively growing weaker, stupider, and more dependent on that same technology as a result.
Thank the Black Death for all the autoimmune disorders we see in our society. Prior to the Death autoimmune disorders were rare in society, at least they weren't discussed much in ancient texts. However, to survive a Yersinia infection you needed one hell of an immune system, so most of humanity went through a selection for enchanted immune responses. Enhanced immune responses came at the expense of autoimmune disorders, which are quite prevalent in our society.
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Thank the Black Death for all the autoimmune disorders we see in our society. Prior to the Death autoimmune disorders were rare in society, at least they weren't discussed much in ancient texts. However, to survive a Yersinia infection you needed one hell of an immune system, so most of humanity went through a selection for enchanted immune responses. Enhanced immune responses came at the expense of autoimmune disorders, which are quite prevalent in our society.
Interesting hypothesis. I’d not heard that one before but I can see the logic.
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I don’t believe for a second that the hospitals were crowded with unvaccinated Covid patients and here’s why.
Hospitals were overloaded at the beginning of 2021 because the elderly, most with comorbidities, were being struck down by Covid and most eventually were put on ventilators and most died. Very quickly the most vulnerable were taken. And the hospitals virtually emptied. The hospital ship in New York Harbor provided by President Trump at the request of that city remained unoccupied. Nurses in hospitals famously were making dancing videos. Hospital workers and nurses across the globe made videos, many posts on uncensored media, and debunked the trope of crowding. The virus already had begun to weaken, as viruses do. But the fear had to remain stoked to sell the (now known to be ineffective) jabs.
Enter the vaccines. We still have no reliable record of how many people were vaccinated, but it is now very clear that far fewer received it than previously “reported,” and an amazingly low percentage of people received only one shot of the two-shot series. Officially, a person was not considered fully vaccinated for an approximately 30-day period: The second shot was received two weeks after the first and not until two weeks after THAT was a person considered vaccinated.
My stepdaughter was insisting we should get vaxxed and was doing rotations in hospitals and said she saw Covid signs on rooms down every hall and all were unvaccinated patients. When we asked about the timeline and whether they were just considered unvaccinated because the full post-vax time criterion had not been reached, she got angry. When we asked, because we were sad that she was angry at us for not getting the jabs, if any if her co-workers and colleagues had decided not to get the jab, and if so why, she said they did not ask each other that.
It was very soon after the vax rollout that people who’d been jabbed started getting Covid. It was stunning and unforgettable. They’re still getting Covid now, multiple times even, if the dubious tests can be trusted, which is up for argument. And the reason I started this thread was not only the RFK interview, but the massive body of evidence now emerging after the Covid Vax debacle that THE FEWER VACCINES ONE GETS THE HEALTHIER THEY ARE.
This is not to say all vaccines should be done away with. But informed consent is a joke when the real-world consequences of a vaccine are hidden and fear of the vaxxed-against disease is stoked.
I’ll close with this. Over the last three years I’ve been in hospitals and clinics for a number of reasons, including a colonoscopy and ER visits and wrist surgery and follow ups and routine doctor visits. NOT ONCE have I been asked if I’ve gotten the Covid vaccine. NEVER has that question shown up on forms or been asked in person. It’s my belief the medical community is in full knowledge of their gross incompetence and wants it to go away. I ask you, if they’re not asking, how can they know if a person’s illness may be vaccine induced? They can’t, because they don’t want to know.
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Problem with natural immunity is you have to go through the disease to get it. That's an illness that kills 1% of its victims and maims upward of 30%. I'll take the vaccine, thank you.
But the vaccine did not a) prevent infection or b) reduce the severity of infection. It was ineffective. On the other hand, natural immunity was very effective.
So for the record, you are all for the government mandating a citizen to inject a substance into their body that may either permanently damage them, or even kill them. Correct?
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But the vaccine did not a) prevent infection or b) reduce the severity of infection. It was ineffective. On the other hand, natural immunity was very effective.
So for the record, you are all for the government mandating a citizen to inject a substance into their body that may either permanently damage them, or even kill them. Correct?
I really do think this is contrary to the studies.
With the initial variants it is clear that the mRNA vaccines reduced your chances of being infected by 85-95%. Isn’t that “preventing” the infection. It’s efficacy was lower than some prior vaccines but not others.
The reduction off serious illness and death after infection in those vaccinated is quite well documented. Isn’t that “reducing” the severity?
And for the record, I don’t think that having Covid-19 ever constituted a significant enough risk of serious harm to others to mandate anything!
Also for the record, I don’t think the risk - benefit ratio was likely ever on the positive side for people under 29, and it only got worse as time went on. For those over 65 the risks of infection rose rapidly. I always thought using these vaccines on children was quite ill-advised.
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I really do think this is contrary to the studies.
With the initial variants it is clear that the mRNA vaccines reduced your chances of being infected by 85-95%. Isn’t that “preventing” the infection. It’s efficacy was lower than some prior vaccines but not others.
The reduction off serious illness and death after infection in those vaccinated is quite well documented. Isn’t that “reducing” the severity?
We'll disagree. As the vaccine show progressed, they had to keep readjusting the narrative. What started out as "safe and effective" turned into "we'll, it really doesn't keep you from getting infected, it doesn't stop the spread, and if you get sick after being vaccinated you may even be sicker than a non vaccinated person."
My personal experience with people I know with vaccine injuries made it a no go.
And for the record, I don’t think that having Covid-19 ever constituted a significant enough risk of serious harm to others to mandate anything!
Also for the record, I don’t think the risk - benefit ratio was likely ever on the positive side for people under 29, and it only got worse as time went on. For those over 65 the risks of infection rose rapidly. I always thought using these vaccines on children was quite ill-advised.
Agreed. Government has no business mandating medical procedures on anyone. Where does the line get drawn? If we allow government to mandate a vaccine, what will they want to mandate next? The Nuremberg Code was put in place for a reason.
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The ONLY and entire purpose of the Covid vaccine scam was to enrich fucking democrats and give cover for stealing the election thru illegal fake ballots.
The Mikey and Peter voices are howling bullshit spoon fed them so often they have lost all sense of reality.
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The Mikey and Peter voices are howling bullshit spoon fed them so often they have lost all sense of reality.
I've made the same arguments as Peter on this forum, but you forgot to insult me. I feel neglected.
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I've made the same arguments as Peter on this forum, but you forgot to insult me. I feel neglected.
You will just have to live with the outrage…
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We'll disagree. As the vaccine show progressed, they had to keep readjusting the narrative. What started out as "safe and effective" turned into "we'll, it really doesn't keep you from getting infected, it doesn't stop the spread, and if you get sick after being vaccinated you may even be sicker than a non vaccinated person."
Ok, though I will say the studies on this are fairly clear. Vaccine efficacy decreased over time as the virus evolved to be good at spreading and avoid immune suppression by the vaccine. There is nothing surprising about that. This is what respiratory viruses do. They become more contagious and less dangerous over time.
There is no reason to assume some conspiracy or malice here.
When reasonable people disagree they look to the actual data and analyses in the peer-reviewed literature if they want to try and understand the nature of the disagreement. If you want to discuss the peer reviewed literature, always happy to do so.
My personal experience with people I know with vaccine injuries made it a no go.
And if you want to rely on anecdote for your choices, that is of course your perogative. Many people do because personal experience is very direct and powerful. OTOH, professionals have to rely on the peer-reviewed studies and data when providing advice.
Agreed. Government has no business mandating medical procedures on anyone. Where does the line get drawn? If we allow government to mandate a vaccine, what will they want to mandate next? The Nuremberg Code was put in place for a reason.
I share your concerns. There was NO moral justification for what was done in terms of mandates. It is a very dangerous precedent and shows how easy it is to scare the heck out of everyone and get them demanding the surrender of their and everyone else’s rights.
I think a very strong moral case can be made for human freedom. I don’t think the presentation of that case is helped by distorting science in either direction for political purposes. This is one of the reasons that I think it critical that people like myself, who have scientific credentials and support human freedom on moral grounds, speak out strongly in defense of the truth, separating it from politics.
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When the cdc spent years cooking the books the data they released was bullshit.
Pretending it is true just because it was published is like thinking Sesame Street was true because it was on tv.
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When the cdc spent years cooking the books the data they released was bullshit.
Pretending it is true just because it was published is like thinking Sesame Street was true because it was on tv.
It would not just be the CDC cooking the books but health agencies in countries around the world. A global conspiracy.
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Title of thread still holds, for me. These are not inert substances. They contain ingredients that are surprisingly toxic, considering that they’ll be injected into healthy people. Even my doctor stepdaughter admits this, while remaining displeased with our refusal to get jabbed.
Covid has been mutating constantly. A couple we know got a Covid vaccine this Spring so they could go on a cruise. The pharmacist administering it told them he was very sorry that the cruise required it, “because this vaccine will have nothing to do with any Covid variant you’re going to encounter.”
My question would be, why are these shots still being administered? They don’t work and they’re toxic.
I think we can answer that question with no tin foil hat vibes whatsoever. It’s money.
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The only problem with the Covid "vaccines" I have is that they were hastily produced and not fully tested like others. Plus they're not truly vaccines and "talk" to your DNA in, I believe, unprecedented ways on a mass scale.
However, the much bigger problem is Government and Corporations mandating people take them or lose rights, ability to travel and their livelihood. Terrible precedent and totally out of bounds, especially for Government but also Corporations acting on their behalf. This is Fascism.
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I think that by far, the biggest catastrophe of the COVID episode was the closing of the schools.
I'm hearing that the military is finding it even more difficult to find recruits that can pass the written tests. It was bad enough when the fat kids couldn't pass the physical test. We not only screwed the younger generation, we screwed every generation that will depend on those younger kids for generations.
RDS fought that more than anyone and was accused of abusing kids.
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I think that by far, the biggest catastrophe of the COVID episode was the closing of the schools.
I'm hearing that the military is finding it even more difficult to find recruits that can pass the written tests. It was bad enough when the fat kids couldn't pass the physical test. We not only screwed the younger generation, we screwed every generation that will depend on those younger kids for generations.
RDS fought that more than anyone and was accused of abusing kids.
My company is in high schools all over the country, so I see a pretty decent cross section of kids around the country. We are going to be paying for closing down the schools for the next 20+ years. And, as frequently is the case, the kids that could afford it the least, got impacted the most. We had schools closed for three months (~March - May) up to almost 18 months.
I'll never forget what one of my really good teachers told me. This school had been closed for 18 months and was just starting up again. He was just beside himself at how many of his students were gone. No record of what happened to them, or were they went..
These are the impacts of Covid that no one talks about....
-Dan
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I think that by far, the biggest catastrophe of the COVID episode was the closing of the schools.
I'm hearing that the military is finding it even more difficult to find recruits that can pass the written tests. It was bad enough when the fat kids couldn't pass the physical test. We not only screwed the younger generation, we screwed every generation that will depend on those younger kids for generations.
RDS fought that more than anyone and was accused of abusing kids.
Agree but there is a silver lining. When the kids were home doing school remotely, the parents caught glimpses of what was being taught and were horrified at some of it, hence the awakening of parents now starting to attend school board meetings.
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I share your concerns. There was NO moral justification for what was done in terms of mandates. It is a very dangerous precedent and shows how easy it is to scare the heck out of everyone and get them demanding the surrender of their and everyone else’s rights.
I think a very strong moral case can be made for human freedom. I don’t think the presentation of that case is helped by distorting science in either direction for political purposes. This is one of the reasons that I think it critical that people like myself, who have scientific credentials and support human freedom on moral grounds, speak out strongly in defense of the truth, separating it from politics.
I rather agree, though I disagree on the government's ability to mandate a medical intervention like a vaccine. My reasoning is as follows: keeping the citizenry safe has ever been a function of government. We have a giant military to keep us safe from foreign invasion, the government should be able to take steps to limit our harm from a pestilential invasion. Governments have been doing this sort of thing for centuries trying to limit the impact of plagues. The word "quarantine" came from medieval Dubrovnik, whose city fathers decided that incoming sailors needed a period of isolation to ensure they didn't bring in the Black Plague. They isolated them on a nearby island for 40 days, the period of the biblical flood. 40, hence quarantine.
Was COVID sufficiently dangerous to warrant such a response? I'd argue it was, since it killed 1% of its victims and maimed many. You might argue otherwise, and that's fine. At the time it seemed plenty dangerous and threatened to collapse our medical system, indeed it nearly did so in many places. Thankfully the vaccines had high efficacy in preventing serious disease (the function of a vaccine, by the way) and the pandemic was largely halted.
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Mikey is such a good little communist.
He even parrots utter bullshit like he was brainwashed by the best (worst).
What utter hogwash, mikey.
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Was COVID sufficiently dangerous to warrant such a response? I'd argue it was, since it killed 1% of its victims and maimed many.
I don't want to argue with you because I agree with most of what you are saying on this topic. But one of my many complaints I have about the government response to covid was how far overboard it went. The mandates were far too broad and the risk/reward just wasn't there across the board. From the beginning I said the restrictions should have been aimed at us old people that were actually at serious risk.
So here is my question to you. I would (and will later) look into this more, but today is my wife's birthday and we are going on a field trip today.
When you say it killed 1% of its victims, is that 1% of ALL Covid cases? Is that stat still valid or was it only valid at the begining? Was it valid for all age ranges? Never mind that I think many of those Covid cases were actually those many flu cases that seemed to disappear while the Covid cases soared.
I would just like a little more context about that statistic.
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I think that by far, the biggest catastrophe of the COVID episode was the closing of the schools.
I'm hearing that the military is finding it even more difficult to find recruits that can pass the written tests. It was bad enough when the fat kids couldn't pass the physical test. We not only screwed the younger generation, we screwed every generation that will depend on those younger kids for generations.
RDS fought that more than anyone and was accused of abusing kids.
I don't know what was worse, the impact to children, or the devastation to small businesses. As we've discussed here, it was all purposeful. Covid was just a useful tool.
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Should be “NON-effectiveness.” The lowest incidence of Covid was seen in those with ZERO doses of the Covid vaccine. This is in a population of median-aged healthcare workers, so it excludes elderly and children.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v5
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I don't want to argue with you because I agree with most of what you are saying on this topic. But one of my many complaints I have about the government response to covid was how far overboard it went. The mandates were far too broad and the risk/reward just wasn't there across the board. From the beginning I said the restrictions should have been aimed at us old people that were actually at serious risk.
So here is my question to you. I would (and will later) look into this more, but today is my wife's birthday and we are going on a field trip today.
When you say it killed 1% of its victims, is that 1% of ALL Covid cases? Is that stat still valid or was it only valid at the begining? Was it valid for all age ranges? Never mind that I think many of those Covid cases were actually those many flu cases that seemed to disappear while the Covid cases soared.
I would just like a little more context about that statistic.
It started out that but was an average across all people but it was just an average and hence meaningless. Covid was tied positively to age. The death rate in infants was virtually zero. Children like .00001 or something. Healthy young adults maybe .01, obese sick adults 1% and then over age 50 it begins to rise by decade of age until in your 80s it might be 20-30%.
So talking about a 1% death rate makes no sense in terms of how to quarantine or take other measures. To lock down all of society when young healthy people and children had extremely low death rates was insane. They should have locked down nursing homes and told middle aged or older to stay home, and let the rest of society function. Kids should never have been kept out of school. We now know that this was devastating to their immune systems. Regular exposure to pathogens is vital to keep the immune system strong. Kids kept isolated for months then experienced a backlash of more disease when they finally came out.
At the very very beginning they thought the overall death rate was 5% and that might have justified a draconian response but only for the first couple weeks like Fauci said “two weeks to flatten the curve”. He should have stuck to that instead of extending it for two years and destroying the economy.
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I rather agree, though I disagree on the government's ability to mandate a medical intervention like a vaccine. My reasoning is as follows: keeping the citizenry safe has ever been a function of government. We have a giant military to keep us safe from foreign invasion, the government should be able to take steps to limit our harm from a pestilential invasion. Governments have been doing this sort of thing for centuries trying to limit the impact of plagues. The word "quarantine" came from medieval Dubrovnik, whose city fathers decided that incoming sailors needed a period of isolation to ensure they didn't bring in the Black Plague. They isolated them on a nearby island for 40 days, the period of the biblical flood. 40, hence quarantine.
Was COVID sufficiently dangerous to warrant such a response? I'd argue it was, since it killed 1% of its victims and maimed many. You might argue otherwise, and that's fine. At the time it seemed plenty dangerous and threatened to collapse our medical system, indeed it nearly did so in many places. Thankfully the vaccines had high efficacy in preventing serious disease (the function of a vaccine, by the way) and the pandemic was largely halted.
The difference is that today we have a total global economy. Back before the last century or two, the overwhelming majority of one’s survival needs was locally produced. You could isolate without doing too much economic damage and damage to people’s livelihoods relative to today. But now, the first red flag was the great toilet paper shortage. You make a sudden large change in social habits you instantly create disruption in a supply chain that wraps all around the planet. There is almost nothing in your household or pantry that doesn’t consist of multiple parts or ingredients that originated hundreds or thousands of miles away from you if not from another country on the other side of the planet.
The net effect of lockdowns was to drive small suppliers out of business and concentrate wealth and goods in the hands of large monopolistic corporations. Walmart was allowed to stay open but mom and pop closed down for good because they couldn’t survive months of not being allowed to operate. Large corporations could use their connections and wholesale contracts to more easily get supplies. Even then they had to scramble and we had lots of empty shelves.
At some point you have to face the death and maiming caused by this economic damage and measure it and compare it to the death and maiming of Covid. It is possible the damage caused by the draconian policies to the world economy is net worse. But the government and pro-lockdowners refuse to even address it much less try to figure which is less harmful overall. You would think a SCIENTIST would want to do that!
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It started out that but was an average across all people but it was just an average and hence meaningless. Covid was tied positively to age. The death rate in infants was virtually zero. Children like .00001 or something. Healthy young adults maybe .01, obese sick adults 1% and then over age 50 it begins to rise by decade of age until in your 80s it might be 20-30%.
So talking about a 1% death rate makes no sense in terms of how to quarantine or take other measures. To lock down all of society when young healthy people and children had extremely low death rates was insane. They should have locked down nursing homes and told middle aged or older to stay home, and let the rest of society function. Kids should never have been kept out of school. We now know that this was devastating to their immune systems. Regular exposure to pathogens is vital to keep the immune system strong. Kids kept isolated for months then experienced a backlash of more disease when they finally came out.
At the very very beginning they thought the overall death rate was 5% and that might have justified a draconian response but only for the first couple weeks like Fauci said “two weeks to flatten the curve”. He should have stuck to that instead of extending it for two years and destroying the economy.
Thank you.
You have nailed it 100%. We watched either what was glaring ignorance on the part of the "medical professionals" or a deliberate action to plunge the country into chaos. For us that were actually "following the science" it was apparent what was going on.
When that little megalomaniac Fauci demanded "I am the science" it was even more apparent what was happening.
Oh, and let's not forget the Governors that sent covid positive patients into nursing facilities, among other atrocities.
The final straw was once it was evident the so called vaccines were worthless, the government's insistence that everyone get the shot and repeated shots. The pharmaceuticals made money beyond their wildest dreams with no fear of reprisal from the harm being done by their product, and we the taxpayer were footing the bill all the way.
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When you say it killed 1% of its victims, is that 1% of ALL Covid cases? Is that stat still valid or was it only valid at the begining? Was it valid for all age ranges? Never mind that I think many of those Covid cases were actually those many flu cases that seemed to disappear while the Covid cases soared.
I would just like a little more context about that statistic.
Very early estimates of the infection fatality rate were even higher, like 5%. Remember this was when there were no reliable tests for infection available, so the denominator was not known with any great certainty.
Within a few months, the IFR was estimated to be in the range of 0.25%. That is perhaps 2-3 X more dangerous than most prior seasonal influenzas.
Over time the IFR dropped as the contagiousness went up. Rather typical behavior of a respiratory virus.
As Rush noted, the IFR was always very dependent on age, rising rapidly above age 65.
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Hahahahahaha! Like something will ever come of this. DOJ will drop it down a black hole.
https://twitter.com/HannahDCox/status/1686739231006248960
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When the modern day mengele (fauci) sees his net worth jump to over $120 million dollars on a government salary and he gets paid untold millions from the scam vaccine that the communist democrats pushed for all it was worth, then it is automatic that blind, ideologues would run around babbling the liberal line of bullshit about infection and mortality rates;
while ignoring the truth that hospitals were paid to lie about covid rates, and doctors were losing their licenses to practice medicine if they dared to prescribe ivermectin which worked wonders for a tiny fraction of the cost paid to the scam vaccine manufacturers, and we are expected to suck off the penis of the left claiming their latest bullshit graph proves anything other than they still know how to lie.
When the communist democrats in office use the doj and medical boards to shut down ANY non-government medical opinions and advice, you already know they are lying out of their asses.
It is no surprise that the big state leftists here are sucking from the same government penis and repeating whatever lie they've been told to repeat.
It's not like democrats have any integrity, anyway...
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Hahahahahaha! Like something will ever come of this. DOJ will drop it down a black hole.
https://twitter.com/HannahDCox/status/1686739231006248960
Exactly. If Sir Fouchi is found to be a liar, then their entire "I am the science" narrative falls apart. And that makes it just that much harder to control us next time.
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(https://i.imgur.com/31F3hQu.png)
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From the start to today COVID killed roughly 1% of its victims. Earlier cases were spread among age groups with a skew toward the elderly, but once the treatments got better and vaccines came into play deaths became more skewed toward the elderly. Still, had no one done nothing we'd have expected 3 million deaths and a third of the nation with lingering side effects. Moreover, had no one done anything we'd. have crashed the medical system. Need to give birth? Hospitals are full of COVID patients? Broke your hip? Hospitals are full of COVID patients.
Please don't tell me it never happened because it did, right in my old stomping grounds. There was a week where you couldn't go to a hospital in Lucas county here in Ohio. The hospitals were all full of COVID patients. That was with lockdowns and vaccines. Imaging how bad it've been without that stuff.
Was the lockdown too much? Did it go to far? Perhaps, perhaps not. We can't see the world where we didn't do any of that, so it's a hard question to address. Should we have closed schools? It is true kids don't buy it form COVID (we know that now, we didn't back then) but even so, they are marvelous disease vectors. While they themselves won't perish, they can transmit the disease to lots of folks who will.
Again, these are very difficult questions without easy answers. All I can say is had we done nothing the result would have been well nigh disastrous.
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you don't know what would have happened.
you can certainly postulate what COULD have happened.
but even your "genius" mind doesn't know what would have happened.
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Moreover, had no one done anything we'd. have crashed the medical system. Need to give birth? Hospitals are full of COVID patients? Broke your hip? Hospitals are full of COVID patients.
Please don't tell me it never happened because it did, right in my old stomping grounds. There was a week where you couldn't go to a hospital in Lucas county here in Ohio. The hospitals were all full of COVID patients. That was with lockdowns and vaccines. Imaging how bad it've been without that stuff.
I think that the hospital thing could have been handled MUCH better. Yeah, there were a lot of patients with COVID in the hospital. Many may have been there with something else but since they had COVID they were treated as highly contagious and put into isolation. Huge swaths of hospitals were turned into quarantine units forcing other units out. Break a hip? Too bad. Covid lockdown. Can't come in because our hip ward has Covid patients. Yes, there are only two in a 50 bed ward, but we can't take any chances.
I had to wait a year for my gall bladder surgery because no one but Covid (and emergencies) were being treated at my hospital. And I needed three boosters and they weren't available yet. So yeah, hospitals shut down. But mostly because of stupidity rather than a rational isolate the serious cases and get on with treating the non-covid patients. How bad would it have been without that stuff? Not bad at all and many fewer would have died. Yes, they died because of Covid. Covid stupidity. Because people overreacted to Covid and their heart / hip / gall bladder / whatever burst.
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From the start to today COVID killed roughly 1% of its victims. Earlier cases were spread among age groups with a skew toward the elderly, but once the treatments got better and vaccines came into play deaths became more skewed toward the elderly. Still, had no one done nothing we'd have expected 3 million deaths and a third of the nation with lingering side effects. Moreover, had no one done anything we'd. have crashed the medical system. Need to give birth? Hospitals are full of COVID patients? Broke your hip? Hospitals are full of COVID patients.
Please don't tell me it never happened because it did, right in my old stomping grounds. There was a week where you couldn't go to a hospital in Lucas county here in Ohio. The hospitals were all full of COVID patients. That was with lockdowns and vaccines. Imaging how bad it've been without that stuff.
Was the lockdown too much? Did it go to far? Perhaps, perhaps not. We can't see the world where we didn't do any of that, so it's a hard question to address. Should we have closed schools? It is true kids don't buy it form COVID (we know that now, we didn't back then) but even so, they are marvelous disease vectors. While they themselves won't perish, they can transmit the disease to lots of folks who will.
Again, these are very difficult questions without easy answers. All I can say is had we done nothing the result would have been well nigh disastrous.
Sweden didn't lock down, and they faired better than countries that did.
Many hospitals did not see a huge influx of covid patients. What they did experience was people rushing to a hospital when they had a sniffle because of all the fear mongering in the media. Lots of hospitals were deserted because they closed off routine treatments in case of the feared covid overload, which resulted in medical professionals being laid off and hospitals taking massive financial hits.
In my state hospitals report daily bed availability and ICU availability. During covid, hospitals never reached peak and the numbers stayed average. Even the hospital CEO's came out and said there were no increases.
Then add in the government manipulation of covid numbers, and blurring "dying with" and "dying of" covid. A person gets admitted to the ER with a gunshot wound and dies, then the death certificate reports "Died of covid19".
And add in all of the false positives of the covid testing and the crappy made covid test that somehow always showed a positive.
And why did the flu disappear during covid? That's another one no one wants to address.
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I think that the hospital thing could have been handled MUCH better. Yeah, there were a lot of patients with COVID in the hospital. Many may have been there with something else but since they had COVID they were treated as highly contagious and put into isolation. Huge swaths of hospitals were turned into quarantine units forcing other units out. Break a hip? Too bad. Covid lockdown. Can't come in because our hip ward has Covid patients. Yes, there are only two in a 50 bed ward, but we can't take any chances.
I had to wait a year for my gall bladder surgery because no one but Covid (and emergencies) were being treated at my hospital. And I needed three boosters and they weren't available yet. So yeah, hospitals shut down. But mostly because of stupidity rather than a rational isolate the serious cases and get on with treating the non-covid patients. How bad would it have been without that stuff? Not bad at all and many fewer would have died. Yes, they died because of Covid. Covid stupidity. Because people overreacted to Covid and their heart / hip / gall bladder / whatever burst.
A coworker’s mother died because she was afraid to go to the hospital because of Covid fearmongering. The hospital wasn’t overrun. She sat at home with chest pain for two days and died.
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A coworker’s mother died because she was afraid to go to the hospital because of Covid fearmongering. The hospital wasn’t overrun. She sat at home with chest pain for two days and died.
And when she finally got to the mortuary, they performed a covid test that showed positive so her death was listed as a covid death. I'd put money on that because it played out over and over.
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And when she finally got to the mortuary, they performed a covid test that showed positive so her death was listed as a covid death. I'd put money on that because it played out over and over.
It was a regular MI. She probably didn’t have Covid because she was too scared to leave her house. But if she did test positive it would likely have been a false positive and yes, they would have counted it as a Covid death.
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It was a regular MI. She probably didn’t have Covid because she was too scared to leave her house. But if she did test positive it would likely have been a false positive and yes, they would have counted it as a Covid death.
Most of the covid test were coming from China, and most of those test were shown to give false positives.
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Newsletter I receive daily. Interesting article today.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/jackpot-tuesday-august-8-2023-c-and?utm_source=substack&publication_id=463409&post_id=135826584&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true
🔬 The puzzle pieces continue to fall into place, and a significant new puzzle piece dropped last week, in the form of a preprint published to MedRxIV on July 31st, titled “SARS-CoV-2 Uses CD4 to Infect T Helper Lymphocytes.”
Although “just” a preprint, it features no fewer than seventy-seven authors. And it has already gathered three positive peer reviews. Let’s start with their conclusion, and then try to unpack what it means. The study’s admittedly obscure conclusion:
We demonstrated that SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein (S) directly binds to the CD4 molecule, which in turn mediates the entry of SARS-CoV-2 in T helper cells. This leads to impaired CD4 T cell function and may cause cell death. SARS-CoV-2-infected T helper cells express higher levels of IL-10, which is associated with viral persistence and disease severity. Thus, CD4-mediated SARS-CoV-2 infection of T helper cells may contribute to a poor immune response in COVID-19 patients.
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you'd like to think that geniuses like ol POS would understand how data needs to be evaluated and valididated.
Overcount covid deaths (and don't try to claim they weren't overcounted - plenty of evidence from the government that they were overcounting) and undercount cases and voila you've created a bogus CFR. But in true "scientist" fashion, it fits your agenda so you use it even though the numbers are complete crap.
If people counted vaccination deaths with the same disregard for honesty, you (yes, you POS) would be going bonkers.
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A nice video. True facts. Until the very end when it strongly implied we should trust all vaccines the same as the smallpox. It kind of implied we are idiots if we don’t trust all new vaccines because we don’t “remember” the horrors of smallpox.
What does the smallpox vaccine have to do with Covid 19? I don’t think anyone here is anti-smallpox vaccine. Smallpox had a much higher fatality rate and the vaccine is very highly effective for life. It truly is an amazing success story. But you cannot draw a logical conclusion that all vaccines are equally wonderful.
Anyway it’s a very good video and maybe you didn’t post it for the reasons I said above concerning Covid but just because it’s informative and interesting.
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I think POS Mikey’s conclusion is that all humankind owes it to progressive communist assholes to believe whatever they/we are told to believe without reservation and without question.
Good communist that he is, that strategy is perfect for shallow, egotistical, idiots like him,
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So perfesser, when are you going to address this post you made pre Biden Admin?
Trump can do nothing, and I do mean nothing, to speed vaccine development. As I've said already, the vaccines are coming along more quickly that in past outbreaks because of new technology. Because it is new technology we have to be very, very careful about its implementation. I have deep reservations about this technology, and the last time I had reservations this deep people died.
You quickly confuse science with ideology, hence why anyone can actually take you seriously. The video you posted is in direct opposition to what you posted above.
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I think POS Mikey’s conclusion is that all humankind owes it to progressive communist assholes to believe whatever they/we are told to believe without reservation and without question.
Good communist that he is, that strategy is perfect for shallow, egotistical, idiots like him,
The video does imply that a global, centrally controlled implementation of the smallpox vaccine was needed to eradicate smallpox. Anyone not a communist totalitarian reserves a deep suspicion for any global, centrally controlled project, especially if implemented by an institution given authority to use force. Even so, for a disease with a death rate of 1 in 3, one could make an argument that it’s justified.
For Covid? A disease that has devolved into something indistinguishable from any other mild coronavirus infection, and a vaccine with dubious, short lived benefit and evidence of negative side effects in certain demographics, it looks more like an excuse for justifying centralized control over us, rather than a necessary evil like it would be for something with a kill rate of smallpox.
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I think there's also a fundamental difference between smallpox and covid. You get exposed to smallpox the reaction is very clear and fairly quick. You get exposed to covid you may or may not have symptoms ranging from none to "like the flu". Testing the smallpox vaccine was relatively easy. Get the shot. Get exposed. If you don't get smallpox, it's good to go. Testing covid vaccines was nearly impossible in the timeframe needed to get big pharma and the elites their required obedience from the masses. Plus the money. Can't let the masses know that they don't really need it.
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“That evidence cannot exist.” Not, “does not.” “Cannot.”
https://kirschsubstack.com/p/my-short-conversation-with-alison
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The title of this thread is "vaccines are inherently unsafe". I think showing a video that describes the utter destruction of one of the worst human pathogens in history puts the lie to that, #7's insults be damned (I could posit him as an insult-generating AI, but AI's aren't that stupid and can write far better). You can add Polio to that list as well, it isn't yet gone but it is fairly well contained, at least for now.
Of course, were it up to folks like the ones in this thread these diseases would be rampant, and lots of people would be dying. It was vaccines that did them in.
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The title of this thread is "vaccines are inherently unsafe". I think showing a video that describes the utter destruction of one of the worst human pathogens in history puts the lie to that, #7's insults be damned (I could posit him as an insult-generating AI, but AI's aren't that stupid and can write far better). You can add Polio to that list as well, it isn't yet gone but it is fairly well contained, at least for now.
Of course, were it up to folks like the ones in this thread these diseases would be rampant, and lots of people would be dying. It was vaccines that did them in.
You're deflecting (again ::) )
Still waiting on why you changed your tune 180 degrees on the covid vaccines.
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mikey doesn’t feel the need to defend or explain his bullshit, because we would all immediately see right thru it.
Waiting for a cogent response is going to be as satisfying as waiting for the gop to go after biden.
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The title of this thread is "vaccines are inherently unsafe". I think showing a video that describes the utter destruction of one of the worst human pathogens in history puts the lie to that, #7's insults be damned (I could posit him as an insult-generating AI, but AI's aren't that stupid and can write far better). You can add Polio to that list as well, it isn't yet gone but it is fairly well contained, at least for now.
Of course, were it up to folks like the ones in this thread these diseases would be rampant, and lots of people would be dying. It was vaccines that did them in.
Both can be true at the same time. One vaccine saved the world from a high fatality disease but other vaccines can injure and kill despite also preventing disease. Nothing is really 100% safe. I don’t think it’s fair to make a blanket statement either way, that they’re all totally safe or that they are all unacceptably unsafe.
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Both can be true at the same time. One vaccine saved the world from a high fatality disease but other vaccines can injure and kill despite also preventing disease. Nothing is really 100% safe. I don’t think it’s fair to make a blanket statement either way, that they’re all totally safe or that they are all unacceptably unsafe.
I don’t know why some people can’t seem to hold those two thoughts at the same time. For that matter, the world is not binary yet we insist on making it so.
I do think the thread title holds, vis a vis the linked article in the first post. All vaccines carry risk. The healthiest people (I know, Steingar, they’re alive) are those who have received the fewest vaccines. Therefore vaccines are not safe, in the general understanding of the word, which for most people would be “ harmless” or “inert.” They re not. Yet it is true that a category called “acceptably unsafe” exists.
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Just think of the disclaimers after every TV ad for a new drug.
The one I usually like the most is, don't take xyz if you are allergic to xyz.
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I don’t know why some people can’t seem to hold those two thoughts at the same time. For that matter, the world is not binary yet we insist on making it so.
Part of this disconnect is how devoted liberals are to the world being a zero sum game.
The idea that there is more than one result from any action, and/or the concept that x plus y doesn’t always result in a is anathema to progressives,
Just because a sometimes equals b doesn’t mean it must, or always does. Libs ac
Can’t wrap their heads around the idea that capturing taxes results in greater tax revenue. It is an impossible concept to them.
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The title of this thread is "vaccines are inherently unsafe". I think showing a video that describes the utter destruction of one of the worst human pathogens in history puts the lie to that, #7's insults be damned (I could posit him as an insult-generating AI, but AI's aren't that stupid and can write far better). You can add Polio to that list as well, it isn't yet gone but it is fairly well contained, at least for now.
Of course, were it up to folks like the ones in this thread these diseases would be rampant, and lots of people would be dying. It was vaccines that did them in.
Nobody is against Small Pox and many other vaccines. So stop purposely lying and making it about THAT. This is about the COVID VACCINE. Which was/is a total SCAM. Just like Man's role in climate change. Another SCAM/HOAX.
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Just think of the disclaimers after every TV ad for a new drug.
The one I usually likes the most is, don't take xyz if you are allergic to xyz.
That’s a good one. It’s always some new unheard of drug that you wouldn’t know you were allergic to until you try it.
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I don’t know why some people can’t seem to hold those two thoughts at the same time. For that matter, the world is not binary yet we insist on making it so.
I do think the thread title holds, vis a vis the linked article in the first post. All vaccines carry risk. The healthiest people (I know, Steingar, they’re alive) are those who have received the fewest vaccines. Therefore vaccines are not safe, in the general understanding of the word, which for most people would be “ harmless” or “inert.” They re not. Yet it is true that a category called “acceptably unsafe” exists.
Right, and that’s the implication in the original link you posted. The pharmaceutical company admitted there is a level of unavoidable unsafe-ness and asked for liability protection under the assumption that we would push these vaccines on everyone therefore there WILL be bad outcomes caused by the vaccine, with the presumption that that’s an acceptable price to pay for reducing or eradicating the disease. A huge net benefit. (What is best for the greatest number of people.)
And that is TRUE. In the short run wrt one specific disease at a time. But what has never been addressed by the “experts” and what RK and others have tried to talk about is what happened when we are no longer giving just one or two good vaccines (say, smallpox and polio) but dozens to children from infancy. Does that have any kind of negative consequence on the immune system? Does it cause conditions that seem to have appeared in recent generations that never were recognized before, like ADHD?
An analogy is antibiotics. Great to cure one infection. Use them too often and in too many people, you end up with resistant bugs. This is well known. Why does the pharmaceutical industry resist the idea that too many vaccines could also be a bad thing? Probably because with antibiotics they develop new antibiotics for the drug resistant bugs and make even more money but with vaccines that wouldn’t be the answer, the answer would be just to use them less.
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Nobody is against Small Pox and many other vaccines. So stop purposely lying and making it about THAT. This is about the COVID VACCINE. Which was/is a total SCAM. Just like Man's role in climate change. Another SCAM/HOAX.
He can’t stop lying about the topic.
His entire argument is based on twisting and lying and being an asshole rather than honestly confront the issue.
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one of the root problems with this whole safe/unsafe is: no one really defines "safe" and "unsafe"
In the aviation world, especially airworthiness certification, "safe" and "unsafe" are meaningless. It's about being safe enough. As in, acceptable level of safety.
we take risks every day, we do things that have potentially bad outcomes, but we try to manage the risk and reduce the probability of a bad outcome to an acceptable level.
Sure, there are people that don't think things through (the invincibility of youth comes to mine).
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one of the root problems with this whole safe/unsafe is: no one really defines "safe" and "unsafe"
In the aviation world, especially airworthiness certification, "safe" and "unsafe" are meaningless. It's about being safe enough. As in, acceptable level of safety.
we take risks every day, we do things that have potentially bad outcomes, but we try to manage the risk and reduce the probability of a bad outcome to an acceptable level.
Sure, there are people that don't think things through (the invincibility of youth comes to mine).
That is correct! Corporations make this calculation based on cost/benefit. A safety feature of a car for example that costs $1 billion to put in all the cars but only would save 1 extra life. The corporation figures one life isn’t worth a billion dollars. They would be CORRECT.
There IS a price you can put on a life. You have to consider opportunity cost. You can spend that billion on something else that might save millions of lives.
The problem you always run into is the public is generally stupid and doesn’t grasp this concept. They say “if only one life can be saved it’s worth a billion dollars.” The more rare the harm the greater the emotional idiocy of the public. Hence they go nuts over a rare airliner crash but ignore the hundreds of thousands of car crashes that kill many more people.
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Nobody is against Small Pox and many other vaccines. So stop purposely lying and making it about THAT. This is about the COVID VACCINE. Which was/is a total SCAM. Just like Man's role in climate change. Another SCAM/HOAX.
I've already quoted the title of this thread, which I will repeat, "Vaccines are inherently unsafe". I've put the lie to that by illustrating the effect of vaccines on a a pair of ancient and dangerous viruses, smallpox and polio. I could easily add diseases like measles, mumps, and whooping cough, which used to routinely kill children but are now far less common in our society (sadly, its vaccine skeptics like you all that keep these ancient scourges alive).
I would submit the COVID vaccines themselves are very, very safe. No, nothing is perfect (one of my best students got sent to the hospital from a COVID vaccine), all medications have side-effects. But the COVID vaccines stopped the pandemic in its tracks and have an admirable safety record (fantasies notwithstanding).
I fear moving forward the pathogens are going to win. Vaccine hesitancy has moved from the fringe into the mainstream, thanks to conspiracy mongering and general scientific illiteracy. I think in the future vaccines will be used less and viral disease will be seen more. The saddest thing is when you go to the hospital for a preventable viral disease I get to pick up part of the tab.
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I would submit the COVID vaccines themselves are very, very safe. No, nothing is perfect (one of my best students got sent to the hospital from a COVID vaccine), all medications have side-effects. But the COVID vaccines stopped the pandemic in its tracks and have an admirable safety record (fantasies notwithstanding).
Because it is new technology we have to be very, very careful about its implementation. I have deep reservations about this technology, and the last time I had reservations this deep people died.
So which is it? And why did you make a 180 on your opinion?
And on your comment "all medications have side effects". Yes, it's documented that the covid vaccines can give the patient myocarditis, among other serious problems. Yet knowing this, our government was forcing people to take the vaccine against their will. Many people had their livelihoods destroyed over this. But the pharmaceuticals and the government held immunity from liable.
I fear moving forward the pathogens are going to win. Vaccine hesitancy has moved from the fringe into the mainstream, thanks to conspiracy mongering and general scientific illiteracy.
What conspiracy? We watched people like Fauci tell lie after lie, we watched the government censor and intimidate, and we say medical professionals stripped of their credentials for speaking out. The pharmaceuticals also were caught lying, which in turn made people hesitant.
Lack of transparency, outright lies and misrepresentations of the government, the media and the pharmaceuticals brought this on.
I think in the future vaccines will be used less and viral disease will be seen more. The saddest thing is when you go to the hospital for a preventable viral disease I get to pick up part of the tab.
Then explain to us how admitting millions at the border, with no vetting, no medical exams and no requirement for vaccinations is different than forcing citizens to submit to having something injected into their body against their will.
We as citizens will be picking up the tab for diseases like TB, leprosy and a whole host of others that were eradicated from our land because of the failures of the Biden Administration. Yet you are mysteriously silent on that subject.
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I've already quoted the title of this thread, which I will repeat, "Vaccines are inherently unsafe". I've put the lie to that by illustrating the effect of vaccines on a a pair of ancient and dangerous viruses, smallpox and polio. I could easily add diseases like measles, mumps, and whooping cough, which used to routinely kill children but are now far less common in our society (sadly, its vaccine skeptics like you all that keep these ancient scourges alive).
I would submit the COVID vaccines themselves are very, very safe. No, nothing is perfect (one of my best students got sent to the hospital from a COVID vaccine), all medications have side-effects. But the COVID vaccines stopped the pandemic in its tracks and have an admirable safety record (fantasies notwithstanding).
I fear moving forward the pathogens are going to win. Vaccine hesitancy has moved from the fringe into the mainstream, thanks to conspiracy mongering and general scientific illiteracy. I think in the future vaccines will be used less and viral disease will be seen more. The saddest thing is when you go to the hospital for a preventable viral disease I get to pick up part of the tab.
Unsafe = Risk. And it's true for all medical procedures, drugs AND vaccines. If you've read the other above posts it's about acceptable levels of risk. This is determined by thorough TESTING and experience over time.
This was NOT DONE for the Covid vaccines. There is potentially an UNACCEPTABLE level of risk associated with them.
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I've already quoted the title of this thread, which I will repeat, "Vaccines are inherently unsafe". I've put the lie to that by illustrating the effect of vaccines on a a pair of ancient and dangerous viruses, smallpox and polio. I could easily add diseases like measles, mumps, and whooping cough, which used to routinely kill children but are now far less common in our society (sadly, its vaccine skeptics like you all that keep these ancient scourges alive).
I would submit the COVID vaccines themselves are very, very safe. No, nothing is perfect (one of my best students got sent to the hospital from a COVID vaccine), all medications have side-effects. But the COVID vaccines stopped the pandemic in its tracks and have an admirable safety record (fantasies notwithstanding).
I fear moving forward the pathogens are going to win. Vaccine hesitancy has moved from the fringe into the mainstream, thanks to conspiracy mongering and general scientific illiteracy. I think in the future vaccines will be used less and viral disease will be seen more. The saddest thing is when you go to the hospital for a preventable viral disease I get to pick up part of the tab.
Let’s say you are completely right. Can you not see how obfuscation, censorship, and forced mandates have created mistrust? If vaccine hesitancy is a problem, it might have been created by government and drug companies’ overzealous pursuit of profit and power. The profit motive is obvious. The power motive is the apparent glee some people have in being able to force large numbers of people to do things whether they want to or not.
We have discovered that the federal government was directly involved with censoring free speech about Covid, the vaccines, and treatment options. We have discovered that doctors and pharmacists have been fired for not agreeing with the government’s approved positions - positions not backed up by scientific studies, and that have changed. The FDA now approves ivermectin for Covid yet speech about ivermectin was censored and professionals persecuted when the Feds decided it wasn’t acceptable. They were forcibly suppressing speech without even knowing one way or the other if ivermectin was valid as they now must admit because now they admit maybe it is effective.
You might be totally right, the Covid vaccine might be the SAFEST vaccine ever developed. But the despicable behavior of the experts during this pandemic have killed any credibility they had. They do not deserve our trust, they brought it on themselves. It used to be only the hippie yippies of old who were anti-vax. If half the public is now, you only have yourself to blame, if you support censorship and forced mandates.
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IF, as mikey claims, the whole world needs to be endlessly vaccinated and the government is doing it’s very best to force that, then WHY are millions of criminal illegal aliens walking thru the border without having to be vaccinated for all 75 “horribly necessary” vaccines????
Because mikey is lying out his ass as usual.
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So which is it? And why did you make a 180 on your opinion?
I am a scientist, and have deep reservations about untested technology. However, the vaccines were very thoroughly tested and received the greatest test of all, they were administered to hundreds of millions of people.
And on your comment "all medications have side effects". Yes, it's documented that the covid vaccines can give the patient myocarditis, among other serious problems. Yet knowing this, our government was forcing people to take the vaccine against their will. Many people had their livelihoods destroyed over this. But the pharmaceuticals and the government held immunity from liable.
It appears being immune to COVID gives you myocarditis whether your immunity comes from a vaccine or a naturally elicited immune reaction. That said, the vaccine induced myocarditis is very mild and usually clears up within a few days with the patient none the wiser. COVID itself can induce a very dangerous myocarditis that can easily be lethal and takes weeks to overcome with treatment.
What conspiracy? We watched people like Fauci tell lie after lie, we watched the government censor and intimidate, and we say medical professionals stripped of their credentials for speaking out. The pharmaceuticals also were caught lying, which in turn made people hesitant.
Everything that comes out of your gob is a conspiracy theory except the occasional birthday wish. As far as lies, everything that ever came out of tRump's mouth was that,
Lack of transparency, outright lies and misrepresentations of the government, the media and the pharmaceuticals brought this on.
The government misrepresented nothing, and stopped treatment with the J&J and Astra Zeneca vaccines at the advent of blood clots, and only resumed when the blood clots turned out to occur at a negligible frequency.
Then explain to us how admitting millions at the border, with no vetting, no medical exams and no requirement for vaccinations is different than forcing citizens to submit to having something injected into their body against their will.
The migrants are a sad and enormously complex reality driven by socioeconomic and climatic factors. And like it or not they're needed. We are an entirely two-faced nation about them, they'd not come here if they couldn't get jobs and they can, quite easily. They do the jobs Americans won't.
We as citizens will be picking up the tab for diseases like TB, leprosy and a whole host of others that were eradicated from our land because of the failures of the Biden Administration. Yet you are mysteriously silent on that subject.
Prove it. And I don't want to see any of your fuckwad conspiracy-mongering blogs either. I would remind you that most cases of both disorders are easily remedied by antibiotics, though antibiotic strains of TB do exist. That said, I've yet to hear of any on our shores.
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Old pos is busy changing the terms of debate to avoid the simplest questions.
Utter bullshit from a fake ass academic.
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I am a scientist, and have deep reservations about untested technology. However, the vaccines were very thoroughly tested and received the greatest test of all, they were administered to hundreds of millions of people.
It appears being immune to COVID gives you myocarditis whether your immunity comes from a vaccine or a naturally elicited immune reaction. That said, the vaccine induced myocarditis is very mild and usually clears up within a few days with the patient none the wiser. COVID itself can induce a very dangerous myocarditis that can easily be lethal and takes weeks to overcome with treatment.
Everything that comes out of your gob is a conspiracy theory except the occasional birthday wish. As far as lies, everything that ever came out of tRump's mouth was that,
The government misrepresented nothing, and stopped treatment with the J&J and Astra Zeneca vaccines at the advent of blood clots, and only resumed when the blood clots turned out to occur at a negligible frequency.
The migrants are a sad and enormously complex reality driven by socioeconomic and climatic factors. And like it or not they're needed. We are an entirely two-faced nation about them, they'd not come here if they couldn't get jobs and they can, quite easily. They do the jobs Americans won't.
Prove it. And I don't want to see any of your fuckwad conspiracy-mongering blogs either. I would remind you that most cases of both disorders are easily remedied by antibiotics, though antibiotic strains of TB do exist. That said, I've yet to hear of any on our shores.
I’ll say it again, you are not a scientist. You’re an ideologue. This very discussion proves it beyond a shadow of doubt.
So in conclusion, you were against the COVID vaccine under one administration, now you are all for it under another. And you despise individual rights.
You are also legitimizing open borders, even to the extent those crossing are carrying disease.
Answer this, why should citizens be forced to vaccinate and illegal invaders be given a pass? Can you rationalize this?
As far as conspiracies? You and your fellow travelers have decried anything you disagree, or when your dear leaders get caught as “conspiracy”. Funny thing all those so called conspiracies become fact.
Explain that.
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I am a scientist, and have deep reservations about untested technology. However, the vaccines were very thoroughly tested and received the greatest test of all, they were administered to hundreds of millions of people.
Are you admitting that we were all being used as test subjects without being informed that we were the test study?
It appears being immune to COVID gives you myocarditis whether your immunity comes from a vaccine or a naturally elicited immune reaction. That said, the vaccine induced myocarditis is very mild and usually clears up within a few days with the patient none the wiser. COVID itself can induce a very dangerous myocarditis that can easily be lethal and takes weeks to overcome with treatment.
True, according to my doctor who treated both.
Everything that comes out of your gob is a conspiracy theory except the occasional birthday wish. As far as lies, everything that ever came out of tRump's mouth was that,
Trump uses exaggeration and hyperbole with nearly every sentence he speaks. It’s his style. Usually his basic point is correct. Biden and the Dems and their media minions on the other hand tell outright, bold faced, complete and total lies, the exact opposite of truth. Stuff like “inflation is going down”, “the economy is getting better”, “the 2020 election was the most secure ever, and the 2016 election was fraudulent”, “we will add IRS agents to only go after the super rich, oh by the way we will now require any transaction over $600 to be reported to the IRS. But we aren’t coming after Joe Sixpack”. And on and on and on….
The government misrepresented nothing, and stopped treatment with the J&J and Astra Zeneca vaccines at the advent of blood clots, and only resumed when the blood clots turned out to occur at a negligible frequency.
The migrants are a sad and enormously complex reality driven by socioeconomic and climatic factors. And like it or not they're needed. We are an entirely two-faced nation about them, they'd not come here if they couldn't get jobs and they can, quite easily. They do the jobs Americans won't.
Prove it. And I don't want to see any of your fuckwad conspiracy-mongering blogs either. I would remind you that most cases of both disorders are easily remedied by antibiotics, though antibiotic strains of TB do exist. That said, I've yet to hear of any on our shores.
I have seen reports of both. As I recall, leprosy in Florida and TB more states than one. Also bed bugs are brought here by “migrants” (illegal aliens).
It’s true they do some jobs Americans won’t, because American youth is lied to and misled by leftist educators telling them they can all be social workers and community activists. Just take on a bunch of college loan debt and get a degree and support our bloated higher institutions of learning. Whatever you do, do NOT learn a trade or consider actually doing physical work. Our intelligentsia make sure our kids know how contemptible manual labor is while they themselves have Hispanic maids and landscapers.
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mikey - you are so blind, stupid, and intentionally ignorant fo SO MANY things, most of us have given up challenging your never-ending bullshit.
If it wasn't for truly delusional sound bites, you wouldn't be capable of posting anything.
Why don't you take the blinders of communism off your pathetic eyes, and look around?
The reason is that you are terrified of the truth. Somewhere deeply hidden in your flawed psyche, you know that your make-believe reality is a figment
of your overactive need to pretend that you are important, brilliant, deserving, and special.
I would bet your mommy told you that constantly.
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Maybe Michael can explain why Biden keeps telling Gold Start parents that his son came home from Iraq in a flag draped coffin.
To me, there is no more egregious lie a President can tell. Just as bad as stolen valor, but we know Democrats do that.
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Maybe Michael can explain why Biden keeps telling Gold Start parents that his son came home from Iraq in a flag draped coffin.
To me, there is no more egregious lie a President can tell. Just as bad as stolen valor, but we know Democrats do that.
I think the explanation is fairly simple. He is a demented old man.
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I think the explanation is fairly simple. He is a demented old man.
He was telling lies decades before clear signs of dementia. Even Wikipedia acknowledges that in 1987 he falsely claimed "he had earned three degrees in college, that he attended law school on a full scholarship, that he had graduated in the top half of his class, and that he had marched in the civil rights movement."
And as early as 1968 wikipedia reports he failed "a course due to an acknowledged "mistake" when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school." He had other plagiarizing incidents in his past.
Delaware voters kept him office from 1973 to 2009. He really owes them a lot.
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Are you admitting that we were all being used as test subjects without being informed that we were the test study?
Like Zyklon-B was tested on millions of "willing" subjects.
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Like Zyklon-B was tested on millions of "willing" subjects.
Lol.
Comparing the two is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
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Lol.
Comparing the two is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Not really. The only difference between Zyklon-B and the Covid vaccine is lethality. An authoritative government forces a chemical on the population for the purpose of control and domination. Round everyone up, lock them down, get in line for the (showers / vaccine line). Close the businesses of the undesirables. Make everyone dependent on the government. If there are a (millions / thousands) deaths, so what. It's for the greater good.
Not much of a stretch at all.
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Lol.
Comparing the two is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
and then, of course, comparing covid-19 to smallpox is a bit of a stretch too, right?
(not pointing at you Little Joe)
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Zyklon-B may be the Final Solution if crashing the economy, seizing energy and cancel culture (losing your job over your opinions) doesn't work.