PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on April 27, 2016, 06:15:13 AM
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http://spectator.org/articles/66124/ted-cruz%E2%80%99s-kasich-problem
I confess I am astounded.
Having written some columns in favor of a Trump-Cruz ticket, knowing that one primary after another has anti-Establishment candidates Donald Trump and Ted Cruz collectively racking up as much as 80% of the vote, it certainly seemed crystal clear what Republican voters were saying.
Under no circumstances did they want an umpteenth GOP Establishment candidate who was nothing more than Democrat-lite or so tied into the Establishment that one could be sure only that the last thing they would bring to the White House was serious change. Clearly, in the minds of GOP voters Trump and Cruz were the anti-Establishment guys. Hooray!
And then? And then.
Yesterday we find out that Ted Cruz apparently had a road-to-Damascus vision that caused him to suddenly realize well, gee. If he couldn’t get to the required 1,237 delegates for victory in Cleveland, the next best thing was for him to team up with… with… the Establishment’s Mr. Kasich! Not the anti-Cartel Trump, but the Cartel’s very own Kasich. Yes, a Trump-Cruz anti-Establishment alliance would end the nomination battle on the spot with a decided victory. But no, Cruz’s epiphany was to suddenly veer leftward while the battle rages. In the second Big Mistake of his campaign — the “New York values” business being the first — Cruz has just abruptly ventured for a walk on the Dark Side.
I know, I know. He wants to be president. I wanted him to be vice president so he could get to be president because I felt there was reasonable concern he couldn’t get there on his own at this point. A Trump-Cruz alliance made perfect sense. New York and Texas, the showman and the scholar, the businessman and the constitutional lawyer. Both the sons of immigrants to boot, with Cruz a Hispanic. Who better to be discussing the finer points of putting conservatives on the Court during those weekly presidential-vice presidential lunches than Vice President Cruz? Even more to the point, who better — whether vice president or not — to have running point for the anti-Establishment President Trump than Ted Cruz?
Instead, for whatever reason, Senator Cruz has gone in exactly the other direction. Sending his own campaign manager out there to deal with the Kasich campaign manager whose record for trashing conservatives when he isn’t playing on the team with liberal Democrats is just truly sterling.
Just swell.
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http://spectator.org/articles/66124/ted-cruz%E2%80%99s-kasich-problem
And people like to deride Trump for his "Deals". ::) ::)
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I know they won't because they want a contested convention, but Kasich, and Cruz should bow out.
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I know they won't because they want a contested convention, but Kasich, and Cruz should bow out.
Why?
Unless Trump gets to 1237, they have every right to go to the convention and fight it. If Trump can't get a majority, he is not entitled to the nomination, he'll have to fight it out on the floor like everyone else.
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Maybe because all their doing right now is splitting the party. Cruz has no path to 1237 and Kasich, sure the hell, has no path to 1237. Does Kasich really believe he'll get chosen as the lesser of three evils if there is a second, third or fourth ballot?
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Maybe because all their doing right now is splitting the party. Cruz has no path to 1237 and Kasich, sure the hell, has no path to 1237. Does Kasich really believe he'll get chosen as the lesser of three evils if there is a second, third or fourth ballot?
It was Cruz lecturing Kasich that he had no mathematical way to win the nomination and he should drop out. Now Cruz has no mathematical way to 1237 but yet his own rules don't apply to him.
Right now Trump only needs 47% of the remaining delegates to get 1237 and most analyst are projecting even if Trump under performs he will get that.
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Maybe because all their doing right now is splitting the party. Cruz has no path to 1237 and Kasich, sure the hell, has no path to 1237. Does Kasich really believe he'll get chosen as the lesser of three evils if there is a second, third or fourth ballot?
So, if the primaries end and Trump doesn't have 1237, will you then argue that he should drop out too?
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So, if the primaries end and Trump doesn't have 1237, will you then argue that he should drop out too?
That is a childish argument.
Who would he be conceding to?
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That is a childish argument.
Who would he be conceding to?
How is it different than saying "Cruz can't get 1237, he should drop out?"
After the primaries are done, if Trump doesn't have 1237, he can't get 1237, so should drop out.
The race isn't done until someone gets to 1237, it's not done because a particular candidate can't.
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How is it different than saying "Cruz can't get 1237, he should drop out?"
After the primaries are done, if Trump doesn't have 1237, he can't get 1237, so should drop out.
The race isn't done until someone gets to 1237, it's not done because a particular candidate can't.
IT was your boy Cruz that said Kasich should drop out because he can't get to 1237 and that he was hindering Cruz's chances. So you are arguing against your boy Cruz's statement. You don't like it? Bitch to Cruz.
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(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s549/lucifer68/cruz%20fiorina%20dating_zps9mi5hi6r.jpg)
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How is it different than saying "Cruz can't get 1237, he should drop out?"
After the primaries are done, if Trump doesn't have 1237, he can't get 1237, so should drop out.
The race isn't done until someone gets to 1237, it's not done because a particular candidate can't.
Hey, stop changing the rules! It's not like the majority rule thing has been around since 1856 or anything!
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Hey, stop changing the rules! It's not like the majority rule thing has been around since 1856 or anything!
Well, according to Trump, 1237 is just a random made up number. Math is hard for Trump and his minions.
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Ted Cruz doesn't have a Kasich problem, he has a Ted Cruz problem.
And a Rafael Cruz problem, and a Heidi Cruz problem, and a Carly Fiorina problem, and a Glenn Beck problem, and a dirty-tricks campaigning problem, and so on. Kasich and his delusion are pretty far down the list of problems Cruz is facing (I think Kasich actually needs medical treatment, he is bat-shit crazy, literally Bernie Sanders territory crazy).
Cruz is not engaging enough, he is a rigid idealogue with very thin skin - to me the more I hear him the more he comes off as a weird mix of that kid in school who thought he knew more than everybody else and Mr. Haney from Green Acres. If he only communicated in the written word it might be better but his voice, mannerisms and overall tenor when speaking is severely off-putting for me. As I have said before, I really wanted to like him but I find his conservatism to be one of opportunity and his approach to campaigning to be distasteful.
Trump is certainly not a better big 'C' conservative but he is a far better candidate if you want to measure by votes gathered, coverage gained, or crossover appeal - all of which the establishment class and the consultants have been saying for decades are what the Republicans need to win - well, here is a guy delivering on those needs - and he is using the most powerful chapter out of the other teams' playbook, hit first, hit hard, move on. And taken on whole I believe his life's body of work suggests a pragmatic political conservatism with some social liberalism and with a protectionist bent - I don't agree with him on everything, but I don't need to.
Cruz's campaign for months now has not been about outright victory, it has been to come in second and then work the backroom deals and delegate math for 2nd, 3rd or 4th votes in a contested convention - that is a loser's strategery in my opinion and as more of the logic and approach in play has come to light I believe it has not only hurt him as a candidate and damaged the Republican brand through perceived trickery (I know it is acceptable, pointing out the perception), it is damaging the trust we all need to have in the selection process (although it is worse for the Dem's with their soooperdelegate BS IMO) and it is now causing these supposed 'loyal' delegates themselves to question whether or not this plan will irreparably damage the party (I believe it will end the Republican party as a national party).
I'm not going to defend every dumb thing Trump has said anymore than I did for W, but of the remaining candidates he is my choice - not the best choice, but the one I can vote FOR, for my own reasons and beliefs. Nobody has to agree with me although it is tiresome to not only have to deal with the ever so predictable railings of the professionally agitated loonies on the Left, but to now also have to deal with the same #nevertrump madness from the likes of George Will, the RINO establishment or even some of the other Conservatives on this site.
I may be able to pull the lever AGAINST Hillary if Cruz legitimately ends up the nominee through letter-of-the-law 'legal' chicanery, but if the establishment installs someone else entirely I'm sitting it out and will as I have said before, let it all burn and just focus on taking care of me and mine.
'Gimp
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I agree with much of what Gimp writes re: Cruz. (Who'd a thunk it?) Trump is going to have the delegates or he is going to be so close that denying him on the subsequent ballot's risks splitting the party and hurting the down ticket races. It makes it more likely that the GOP loses the senate and if the Dems have the senate and the WH we will have a left wing SCOTUS. Avoiding that should be job one of the GOP. Period!
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Ted Cruz doesn't have a Kasich problem, he has a Ted Cruz problem.
And a Rafael Cruz problem, and a Heidi Cruz problem, and a Carly Fiorina problem, and a Glenn Beck problem, and a dirty-tricks campaigning problem, and so on. Kasich and his delusion are pretty far down the list of problems Cruz is facing (I think Kasich actually needs medical treatment, he is bat-shit crazy, literally Bernie Sanders territory crazy).
Cruz is not engaging enough, he is a rigid idealogue with very thin skin - to me the more I hear him the more he comes off as a weird mix of that kid in school who thought he knew more than everybody else and Mr. Haney from Green Acres. If he only communicated in the written word it might be better but his voice, mannerisms and overall tenor when speaking is severely off-putting for me. As I have said before, I really wanted to like him but I find his conservatism to be one of opportunity and his approach to campaigning to be distasteful.
Trump is certainly not a better big 'C' conservative but he is a far better candidate if you want to measure by votes gathered, coverage gained, or crossover appeal - all of which the establishment class and the consultants have been saying for decades are what the Republicans need to win - well, here is a guy delivering on those needs - and he is using the most powerful chapter out of the other teams' playbook, hit first, hit hard, move on. And taken on whole I believe his life's body of work suggests a pragmatic political conservatism with some social liberalism and with a protectionist bent - I don't agree with him on everything, but I don't need to.
Cruz's campaign for months now has not been about outright victory, it has been to come in second and then work the backroom deals and delegate math for 2nd, 3rd or 4th votes in a contested convention - that is a loser's strategery in my opinion and as more of the logic and approach in play has come to light I believe it has not only hurt him as a candidate and damaged the Republican brand through perceived trickery (I know it is acceptable, pointing out the perception), it is damaging the trust we all need to have in the selection process (although it is worse for the Dem's with their soooperdelegate BS IMO) and it is now causing these supposed 'loyal' delegates themselves to question whether or not this plan will irreparably damage the party (I believe it will end the Republican party as a national party).
I'm not going to defend every dumb thing Trump has said anymore than I did for W, but of the remaining candidates he is my choice - not the best choice, but the one I can vote FOR, for my own reasons and beliefs. Nobody has to agree with me although it is tiresome to not only have to deal with the ever so predictable railings of the professionally agitated loonies on the Left, but to now also have to deal with the same #nevertrump madness from the likes of George Will, the RINO establishment or even some of the other Conservatives on this site.
I may be able to pull the lever AGAINST Hillary if Cruz legitimately ends up the nominee through letter-of-the-law 'legal' chicanery, but if the establishment installs someone else entirely I'm sitting it out and will as I have said before, let it all burn and just focus on taking care of me and mine.
'Gimp
I can appreciate if you don't like Cruz' speaking style; I can't stand listening to Trump as much as I despise listening to Obama.
But a Rafael Cruz problem? , A Heidi Cruz problem? A Carly Fiorina problem? A Glenn Beck problem? Chicanery? Sorry, but that's simple regurgitation of the pathetic character assassinations organized by Trump and advanced by the billions of dollars of free press coverage by the Trump (aka ratings)-crazed media. When Trump can't win in the field of ideas, he resorts to pathetic shit like this to obfuscate his lack of depth. And too often his supporters regurgitate it.
But we're not looking for a buddy, or a daddy, or a pal. We're looking for a president.
We are on the precipice of nominating a person with historically unmatched negatives among all voters, women, blacks, and Hispanics. He's a man who's conservative bonafides are about a day old, and no track record of following up on his promises, likely including building the wall if you consider the unreleased tapes from the NY Times. His candidacy will result in a landslide defeat, a loss of the Senate and the House, and the death of the conservative movement, at least within the Republican Party.
Cruz is not perfect, and no candidate is. However, he's the only Constitutional conservative in the race, and the most conservative candidate since Reagan. And he's about to be taken out by a reality TV star with a bigger mouth. Woe be to all of us if that happens.
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I can appreciate if you don't like Cruz' speaking style; I can't stand listening to Trump as much as I despise listening to Obama.
But a Rafael Cruz problem? , A Heidi Cruz problem? A Carly Fiorina problem? A Glenn Beck problem? Chicanery? Sorry, but that's simple regurgitation of the pathetic character assassinations organized by Trump and advanced by the billions of dollars of free press coverage by the Trump (aka ratings)-crazed media. When Trump can't win in the field of ideas, he resorts to pathetic shit like this to obfuscate his lack of depth. And too often his supporters regurgitate it.
But we're not looking for a buddy, or a daddy, or a pal. We're looking for a president.
We are on the precipice of nominating a person with historically unmatched negatives among all voters, women, blacks, and Hispanics. He's a man who's conservative bonafides are about a day old, and no track record of following up on his promises, likely including building the wall if you consider the unreleased tapes from the NY Times. His candidacy will result in a landslide defeat, a loss of the Senate and the House, and the death of the conservative movement, at least within the Republican Party.
Cruz is not perfect, and no candidate is. However, he's the only Constitutional conservative in the race, and the most conservative candidate since Reagan. And he's about to be taken out by a reality TV star with a bigger mouth. Woe be to all of us if that happens.
Stan like it or not his Dad and the stuff he spouts is a problem for Cruz as a candidate, his Wife's position at Goldman Sachs is a problem for Cruz as a candidate, Fiorina's record at HP and elsewhere is a problem for Cruz (and was a massive desperation move that everyone read as such, polling shows 85% see it as a pure desperation move in fact) that has failed to move the needle, Glenn Beck and his oddness are a problem for Cruz as a candidate.
The Dem machine will turn each of these into Spruce Goose sized albatrosses to hang around Cruz's neck and he has shown to be incapable of being seen as a sympathetic character as well as ineffective at fighting back (see his failed schoolyard bully outing against the Trump supporters on the Morning Joe for how well that goes).
I occasionally cringe when Trump speaks, same as I did when W spoke, but I would rather have that than a polished turd teleprompter like Obama or a focus group tested schmoozer like Bill Clinton. Cruz is off putting for a lot of people, as evidenced by his failure to beat Trump. If Trump was such a lightweight moron as some seem to believe, he should be easy to beat, yet Cruz can't close the deal and has had his ass handed to him in the last set of primaries and will lose massively today in Indiana and again in California.
Trump also has things the Dem machine will try and use against him however during this campaign he has shown himself to be unbelievably resilient, able to counterpunch while still being seen as a 'victim' AND he has shown an incredible ability to turn these attacks around - that is not opinion, that is fact backed up by the voting results to-date.
We have never in our lifetimes seen the kind of attacks against a Democrat that I expect to see in a Trump v AnyDem election, and I for one am waiting with baited breath.
Despite the negatives (historically high for both sides), polling is starting to show Trump coming out on top over Hillary, and we have yet to see any actual campaigning from either side yet - Trump has more opportunity to bring in traditional Reagan-Democrats than anyone since Reagan himself, move the needle 5 points in the rust belt, or in the African American community for example and it is over. Still too early to say but as this is shaping up it seems to be a far better match than predicted even a couple months ago.
There is no actual polling to suggest a down-ticket bloodbath, that is a talking point.
We can trade barbs on whose record is more reliably conservative and nothing will change - as someone who has followed Trump's writings, actions and such for over 2 decades I see someone with a conservative base but with liberal social beliefs and a protectionist bent as I said, that is in no way DemocratLite, not as strong on several issue important to me as I want but on the whole acceptable to me. But know this, I acknowledge that Trump is not a big 'C' conservative - however I also believe firmly that Ted Cruz is nowhere near as reliably conservative as you and others appear to think he is.
The truth is that neither of these men are going to destroy the Republican Party by themselves, nor can either man destroy the nation by themselves, that is hyperbole forwarded by the folks with the most to lose in this election cycle whether Cruz or Trump wins, and that is the establishment themselves - don't buy into their self-protecting bullshit.
'Gimp
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Stan like it or not his Dad and the stuff he spouts is a problem for Cruz as a candidate, his Wife's position at Goldman Sachs is a problem for Cruz as a candidate, Fiorina's record at HP and elsewhere is a problem for Cruz (and was a massive desperation move that everyone read as such, polling shows 85% see it as a pure desperation move in fact) that has failed to move the needle, Glenn Beck and his oddness are a problem for Cruz as a candidate.
The Dem machine will turn each of these into Spruce Goose sized albatrosses to hang around Cruz's neck and he has shown to be incapable of being seen as a sympathetic character as well as ineffective at fighting back (see his failed schoolyard bully outing against the Trump supporters on the Morning Joe for how well that goes).
I occasionally cringe when Trump speaks, same as I did when W spoke, but I would rather have that than a polished turd teleprompter like Obama or a focus group tested schmoozer like Bill Clinton. Cruz is off putting for a lot of people, as evidenced by his failure to beat Trump. If Trump was such a lightweight moron as some seem to believe, he should be easy to beat, yet Cruz can't close the deal and has had his ass handed to him in the last set of primaries and will lose massively today in Indiana and again in California.
Trump also has things the Dem machine will try and use against him however during this campaign he has shown himself to be unbelievably resilient, able to counterpunch while still being seen as a 'victim' AND he has shown an incredible ability to turn these attacks around - that is not opinion, that is fact backed up by the voting results to-date.
We have never in our lifetimes seen the kind of attacks against a Democrat that I expect to see in a Trump v AnyDem election, and I for one am waiting with baited breath.
Despite the negatives (historically high for both sides), polling is starting to show Trump coming out on top over Hillary, and we have yet to see any actual campaigning from either side yet - Trump has more opportunity to bring in traditional Reagan-Democrats than anyone since Reagan himself, move the needle 5 points in the rust belt, or in the African American community for example and it is over. Still too early to say but as this is shaping up it seems to be a far better match than predicted even a couple months ago.
There is no actual polling to suggest a down-ticket bloodbath, that is a talking point.
We can trade barbs on whose record is more reliably conservative and nothing will change - as someone who has followed Trump's writings, actions and such for over 2 decades I see someone with a conservative base but with liberal social beliefs and a protectionist bent as I said, that is in no way DemocratLite, not as strong on several issue important to me as I want but on the whole acceptable to me. But know this, I acknowledge that Trump is not a big 'C' conservative - however I also believe firmly that Ted Cruz is nowhere near as reliably conservative as you and others appear to think he is.
The truth is that neither of these men are going to destroy the Republican Party by themselves, nor can either man destroy the nation by themselves, that is hyperbole forwarded by the folks with the most to lose in this election cycle whether Cruz or Trump wins, and that is the establishment themselves - don't buy into their self-protecting bullshit.
'Gimp
Man, I do not get you.
So let me get this straight. Ted's problem is that his wife was employed, with a bank, consistent with her undergraduate and graduate degrees? In what world does this constitute a "problem?"
I guess it would be better if Cruz was having an affair with Heidi while still married to his second wife, with whom he cheated upon while still married to his first wife. I guess Cruz is unlucky in love.
This sounds like the leftists who shouted "HALLIBURTON" when George Bush did anything.
Fiorina was hired to save HP; she negotiated a merger with Compaq, the largest merger in technology at that time. And yes, I know it's shocking, but people get laid off with mergers. And this is a problem for Ted? I thought this was the year of the outsiders.
Face it. Nothing Cruz could do, in terms of having parents, a wife, or a running mate, would be acceptable to you.
What a sad state of affairs that these are the important matters in this race.
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Man, I do not get you.
So let me get this straight. Ted's problem is that his wife was employed, with a bank, consistent with her undergraduate and graduate degrees? In what world does this constitute a "problem?"
I guess it would be better if Cruz was having an affair with Heidi while still married to his second wife, with whom he cheated upon while still married to his first wife. I guess Cruz is unlucky in love.
This sounds like the leftists who shouted "HALLIBURTON" when George Bush did anything.
Fiorina was hired to save HP; she negotiated a merger with Compaq, the largest merger in technology at that time. And yes, I know it's shocking, but people get laid off with mergers. And this is a problem for Ted? I thought this was the year of the outsiders.
Face it. Nothing Cruz could do, in terms of having parents, a wife, or a running mate, would be acceptable to you.
What a sad state of affairs that these are the important matters in this race.
Stan you were so close, I said for Cruz as a candidate, not for Cruz for me - yuuuuge difference. I have reasons for not supporting Cruz, but they are not his Dad, his Wife, his uber-stupid and palpably desperate 'running mate' selection, or Glenn Beck - those don't even rate for me. How he has campaigned (bad behaviors, bad decisions, etc.), his record in the Senate, his mannerisms/how he communicates, and his claim to be a consistent conservative when his actions show other all rank much higher for me.
We are talking about someone trying to get elected as President of the United States, that means all 330 million of us, and that will be the person who gets the most votes - Cruz can't even get a plurality within his own party, how does he do it in a General in what is arguably a center-left nation? Current polling shows him down to Hillary by as much as twice the margin of Trump, and that is only in polls that show Hillary winning, nothing on RCP shows Cruz beating her or crazy Bernie.
'Gimp
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Current polling shows him down to Hillary by as much as twice the margin of Trump, and that is only in polls that show Hillary winning, nothing on RCP shows Cruz beating her or crazy Bernie.
Wow, that's almost the most dishonest thing I've seen written.
RCP shows Clinton +6 over Trumpy boy, and less +4 over Cruz.
How is losing by 4 "twice the margin" of 6?
Congrats to the Trumpkins for our new President Clinton, along with Democrat majorities in the House and Senate.