PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 25, 2018, 11:49:31 AM
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My husband is planning to go to Oshkosh! I have long held that the decision to fly to Oshkosh ranks right up there with the decision to fly an unfamiliar craft and to fly in dicey weather, and just indicates a general, overall stupidity.
Crashes abound at that place. I've seen threads where pilots totally swear off ever going again after one visit, because of the danger and chaos and proximity.
How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
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My husband is planning to go to Oshkosh! I have long held that the decision to fly to Oshkosh ranks right up there with the decision to fly an unfamiliar craft and to fly in dicey weather, and just indicates a general, overall stupidity.
Crashes abound at that place. I've seen threads where pilots totally swear off ever going again after one visit, because of the danger and chaos and proximity.
How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
How many crashes do you hear about at Oshkosh. How many planes fly in there? Do the math; it ain't that bad.
How can you respect his decisions? He married you didn't he?
And what does "The Mueller show is a small beer" mean any way?
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I have friends that fly in there every year and none of them have crashed. You read the NOTAM, follow it to a "T" and keep your head on a swivel. Helps to have someone along for the ride. Make sure you know how to fly the plane at 90 knots and work on spot landings a bit.
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My husband is planning to go to Oshkosh! I have long held that the decision to fly to Oshkosh ranks right up there with the decision to fly an unfamiliar craft and to fly in dicey weather, and just indicates a general, overall stupidity.
Crashes abound at that place. I've seen threads where pilots totally swear off ever going again after one visit, because of the danger and chaos and proximity.
How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
Congrats on being a moron. There's been I think one midair collision at Oshkosh in its whole history. Yeah, there's crashes. Get 10,000 airplanes together anywhere and there will be crashes. Eppy said it right though, follow the NOTAM, aviate, navigate, and communicate. Most of the crashes have come from simple miscontrol, some of them possibly from distraction. Those things can happen anywhere.
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Congrats on being a moron. There's been I think one midair collision at Oshkosh in its whole history. Yeah, there's crashes. Get 10,000 airplanes together anywhere and there will be crashes. Eppy said it right though, follow the NOTAM, aviate, navigate, and communicate. Most of the crashes have come from simple miscontrol, some of them possibly from distraction. Those things can happen anywhere.
One of the few people that don't regularly insult you and you call her a moron.
You are a jerk and it is appalling that you have power over young minds.
I think she is over-reacting here, but Becky has been a very good participant here with a very considered point of view. You on the other hand, are a MORON!
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One of the few people that don't regularly insult you and you call her a moron.
You are a jerk and it is appalling that you have power over young minds.
I think she is over-reacting here, but Becky has been a very good participant here with a very considered point of view. You on the other hand, are a MORON!
I am venally insulted by someone with no familiarity with one of the greatest aviation events in the world smears it with lies.
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I am venally insulted by someone with no familiarity with one of the greatest aviation events in the world smears it with lies.
More proof that you are a jerk. I'll bet if you poll your students, you will find the vast majority of them have no idea of the significance of Oshkosh. Or poll your relatives, or fellow idiot professors.
I'ms sorry, but you really pissed me off when you called Becky a moron, and I dont' even know her except for her Pilot Spin posts. But I know she isn't a moron.
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I am venally insulted by someone with no familiarity with one of the greatest aviation events in the world smears it with lies.
Change the word aviation to guns and leave off 'events in the world', and you have the VAST majority of democrats. The smearing is clueless, truthless, baseless, brainless and PERFECTLY represents the Democratic Party and specifically you academic progressive, know nothing, idiots.
Just saying.
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Life is a risk, but also a reward.
Piloting a GA plane is a greater risk, with concomitant greater reward(than walking, biking, etc).
Going into KOSH is a greater risk for a GA pilot. But again - the greater reward.
One of the best times I've had with flying was my two trips to KOSH with my daughter. We became so close, and it's lasted many years. Frankly, I don't think your hubby is really looking for your respect, or approval. I know I didn't ask my wife if I should go or not. I just decided to go, and take my kid. One year we went, there was a crash and a fatality(the Breezy went down). Risk - reward. GA is the poster child for this concept.
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My husband is planning to go to Oshkosh! I have long held that the decision to fly to Oshkosh ranks right up there with the decision to fly an unfamiliar craft and to fly in dicey weather, and just indicates a general, overall stupidity.
Crashes abound at that place. I've seen threads where pilots totally swear off ever going again after one visit, because of the danger and chaos and proximity.
How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
I'm not sure that I have ever seen a thread where pilots swear off going Oshkosh. It is true that there are some poeple who do not follow the rules for flying in, but 99% of the people do and it works. It would probably help to restore your confidence to find some youtube videos of the Fisk arrival and see how it works. I read the notam, watched video, studied Google maps in satellite mode then watched more videos and I can see how it all works. There is a system and thousands and thousands of pilots successfully use it every year.
The big place at Oshkosh get themselves into trouble is basic airmanship around the runway. Every year someone gets slow or tries to make the base to final turn too sharp or tries to force the airplane down and gets in trouble. But this is airmanship 101 and pilots making dumb mistakes. Once again, you can be prepared. You know what ATC is going to tell you - at some point, turn base, then final and land on or after a dot. So pay attention in the turn, keep your speed up and be good at spot landings. Remember that going around is an option, especially if you are too fast.
It is not actually a crazy thing to do.
Michael - live with respect for others.
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Congrats on being a moron.
Congrats on being bipolar.
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Congrats on being bipolar.
That would explain a lot.
Perhaps I was too hard on the poor guy.
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Congrats on being a moron. There's been I think one midair collision at Oshkosh in its whole history. Yeah, there's crashes. Get 10,000 airplanes together anywhere and there will be crashes. Eppy said it right though, follow the NOTAM, aviate, navigate, and communicate. Most of the crashes have come from simple miscontrol, some of them possibly from distraction. Those things can happen anywhere.
Where did you pull "midair" from? The history of crashes at Oshkosh is, understandably, significant. I think the decision to fly into a situation where the risk is exponentially elevated by immense (amateur!) traffic is questionable.
Much of my concern is for my husband's safety on the way there and back. He has very little mountain flying experience, and has never done a cross country flight of that great length. In addition, I worry that his alertness and capability will be affected by lack of sleep and eating weird food, as one experiences when setting out on a long flight with many legs and then sleeps on the ground under a plane's wing. Which is his plan.
The fact that I don't respect or agree with his decision doesn't mean I don't want him to have a great life and fulfill his dreams. I have a friend whose husband has been in two serious motorcycle crashes yet continues to ride. And she still cries after he leaves on a road trip.
An observant wife knows her husband better than anyone, because she sees him in many different situations. Cause for worry is not only generated by statistics, but by personal observations. And when you love someone deeply, it's hard to see them ratchet up the risk factors in their choices.
http://journaltimes.com/news/national/plane-crashes-at-the-eaa/article_e2c93881-3089-525f-80e3-7ff64b3ae989.html
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I don't know where you live, and how far to KOSH. How about planning the route with him, and helping with concerns on the stress(physical, mental, psychological) involved in a significant XC. Decision-making is much more important than the actual flight segments. Frex; One is in SoCal, heads to KOSH via maybe, PHX, ABQ, MCI, MLI, OSH. What happens if one gets stuck by weather in Kansas City? Suppose the gen gives out in ABQ?
A concern I had was get-there-itis(and get-back-itis). One needs to make decisions along the way that affect the entire trip. Can your husband make informed, and logical decisions? Is he willing to turn around, go back where he took off, and sit for a day? Or two? Or five?
Right now this is the weather over Middleton, just SW of KOSH:
WSUS32 KKCI 301655
SIGC
CONVECTIVE SIGMET 91C
VALID UNTIL 1855Z
WI IL
FROM 10N DLL-20NW BAE-40WNW ORD-40S DLL-10N DLL
AREA EMBD TS MOV FROM 18025KT. TOPS TO FL440.
OUTLOOK VALID 301855-302255
FROM 40SW YQT-30W GIJ-30WSW BWG-FAM-BRD-40SW YQT
WST ISSUANCES EXPD. REFER TO MOST RECENT ACUS01 KWNS FROM STORM
PREDICTION CENTER FOR SYNOPSIS AND METEOROLOGICAL DETAILS.
REFER TO MOST RECENT WPC ADVISORY FOR DETAILS ON SUBTROPICAL
DEPRESSION ALBERTO.
There's a curved line of junk from Rockford IL, all the way to the Canadian border. But - KOSH is reporting 7 MI BKN 4500, BKN 6000 which is completely VFR. What to do?
Further, and more important to me is how much do you want to run HIS life? This, is a question far beyond the scope of the risks of danger of flying to KOSH and back.
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I don't know where you live, and how far to KOSH.
According to an entry over on the PoA member map, Becky lives in or near Richland, WA.
So something like KRLD - KOSH
About 1300 nm straight line.
The accident statistics for Airventure aren't so bad so long as the accidents that happened to those headed to it occur some distance away - so they don't get counted.
My advice to Becky's husband is to sleep in a hotel at overnight stops. (Unless he's used to and enjoys sleeping on the ground. Why add to the risk factor by flying fatigued after a bad night of sleep?)
I'd budget a minimum of 3 days to get there.
As to mountain experience - it looks like the highest ranges in his way are under 8k ft. So highest he needs to go is 9500 or 11500 east and 10500 returning, which should avoid most need for mountain flying experience, which is normally meant to mean flying through mountain valleys and landing at mountain airstrips (rather than flying above mountains whose heights within 10 to 20 miles in any direction are below the aircraft.)
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According to an entry over on the PoA member map, Becky lives in or near Richland, WA.
So something like KRLD - KOSH
About 1300 nm straight line.
The accident statistics for Airventure aren't so bad so long as the accidents that happened to those headed to it occur some distance away - so they don't get counted.
My advice to Becky's husband is to sleep in a hotel at overnight stops. (Unless he's used to and enjoys sleeping on the ground. Why add to the risk factor by flying fatigued after a bad night of sleep?)
I'd budget a minimum of 3 days to get there.
As to mountain experience - it looks like the highest ranges in his way are under 8k ft. So highest he needs to go is 9500 or 11500 east and 10500 returning, which should avoid most need for mountain flying experience, which is normally meant to mean flying through mountain valleys and landing at mountain airstrips (rather than flying above mountains whose heights within 10 to 20 miles in any direction are below the aircraft.)
TRUE THAT!!!
Especially the SLEEP in a HOTEL thing. Rest is a huge weapon against accidents. We all know that. It's not news to anyone - first time flight student, right up to airline pilots.
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I don't know where you live, and how far to KOSH. How about planning the route with him, and helping with concerns on the stress(physical, mental, psychological) involved in a significant XC. Decision-making is much more important than the actual flight segments. Frex; One is in SoCal, heads to KOSH via maybe, PHX, ABQ, MCI, MLI, OSH. What happens if one gets stuck by weather in Kansas City? Suppose the gen gives out in ABQ?
A concern I had was get-there-itis(and get-back-itis). One needs to make decisions along the way that affect the entire trip. Can your husband make informed, and logical decisions? Is he willing to turn around, go back where he took off, and sit for a day? Or two? Or five?
...
Further, and more important to me is how much do you want to run HIS life? This, is a question far beyond the scope of the risks of danger of flying to KOSH and back.
He would probably share his planning process if I asked, but I could offer little in the way of assistance. My specific fears could be probably be allayed somewhat by seeing how he plans to deal with the situations I most worry about.
I've seen him cancel planned flights due to weather several times; he is a very conservative pilot, so I should probably extrapolate that to an Oshkosh trip.
I didn't want him to start flying 12 years ago but he did anyway, and bought the plane in 2013. Around 2007 or so I started a thread on POA about my concerns, one of which is that he has vasovagal syncope. I've seen him drop to the floor unconscious twice, once when hearing someone describe an accident they were in, and once when he was having a blood draw. The sight of or thought of blood seems to do it. Amazingly, he shared this with the doctor but still got his medical. At an aviation convention, I asked at the FAA booth about this, and they told me because the incidents were several years apart, all was okeydokey. But I seem to have trouble accepting that.
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I am venally insulted by someone with no familiarity with one of the greatest aviation events in the world smears it with lies.
What a classic liberal reaction! Textbook case! Misinterpretation, introduction of tangential idea, reframing, hyperbole, and self-inflicted grave insult from the perception not the reality!
Teach it, brother!
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Thanks, Jim and everyone except Michael. I now have some knowledgeable questions to ask him to address my concerns. We are at KPSC bit he flies out of KRLD.
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What a classic liberal reaction! Textbook case! Misinterpretation, introduction of tangential idea, reframing, hyperbole, and self-inflicted grave insult from the perception not the reality!
Teach it, brother!
Attempting to understand the vomit that flushes out of Steingar is like trying understnad why rattlesnakes bite.
Mike is proud of his ignorance and egotistical behavior, just like a good marxist, progressive democrat, bigot.
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Attempting to understand the vomit that flushes out of Steingar is like trying understnad why rattlesnakes bite.
Mike is proud of his ignorance and egotistical behavior, just like a good marxist, progressive democrat, bigot.
It is relatively easy to figure out why a rattle snake bites. Their reasons are much more logical than brainwashed, delusional liberals,
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'Conservative pilot' is a good thing. I bet he takes very good care of his plane as well. Also, since it's an owned plane, he doesn't have to worry near as much about schedules, and flight hours, and fuel, and breakage.
I would advise sitting down and asking about the flight plan, scheduling, and alternatives. Ask if you can help, and see if he wants to share. BTW, if he gets FF most of the way, you can track him using the tail number. The northern route may have some weather systems along the way, but they tend to blow through and not stagnate. Also, with good weather radar on the ground, a lot of summer pop-ups can be flown around. I've had to do that several times.
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I've flown to Osh one time, but chose to fly into Appleton, and take the shuttle bus to avoid the traffic. It worked out great. It also enabled a better departure scenario.
I've also done several AOPA fly ins at Frederick, MD. Now those felt like Dresden, or Schweinfurt.
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My process for getting in to the mess is to fly to Portage or Reedsville, or somewhere nearby and spend the night in my tent. Then, I get up at O-dark thirty and I'm near the Fisk arrival point at 06:00:01 ready for assignment. I've never had an issue with traffic. I do the opposite when leaving. Get my departure briefing at 19:30, get in and call for departure, or get in the line about 19:40, and I'm usually in the air in 10 min, and off to Portage or whomever has the best weather and fuel. Next morning, up at dawn, fill the tank, and back in the air. Works great, avoids most of the flight traffic. I also get full value for my time at KOSH doing this because I don't have to pay for the overnight fee on my first full day, and I get full advantage of my overnight fee on my last day there.
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So he had great flights the last couple of days and is now poised in Wautoma, MN to go into OSH when the weather clears. I am worried that hundreds of other people are poised in towns around OSH waiting for the very same thing and they will get tangled up in the airspace there!
I can fret to you all and keep him free to check the weather. 😊
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No such city in MN. However, there is a Wautoma in WI just west of KOSH. Pretty sure he's still on the ground there:
Conditions at: KOSH (OSHKOSH , WI, US) observed 1204 UTC 22 July 2018
Temperature: 17.8°C (64°F)
Dewpoint: 17.2°C (63°F) [RH = 96%]
Pressure (altimeter): 29.95 inches Hg (1014.3 mb)
Winds: from the N (350 degrees) at 14 MPH (12 knots; 6.2 m/s)
Visibility: 1.25 miles (2.01 km)
Ceiling: 900 feet AGL
Clouds: overcast cloud deck at 900 feet AGL
Weather: -RA BR (light rain, mist)
Low ceiling, low vis, light rain. Have a bkfst and try later.
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How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
Do what I do. Get a ton of life insurance on him, and a bunch of additional liability insurance over the plane's policy and then let him do what he wants. You don't have to respect his decisions. You just have to put a good plan B in place in case his decisions mess up your life.
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Still in Wautoma, and people are having to return from attempting OSH because the traffic is so heavy. He says it’s like a mini-fly-in at Wautoma. Will try again tomorrow.
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Wise decision. Hope he has better luck soon.
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I still don't understand the "small beer" reference.
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"Small beer" is something that is considered unimportant - more of a British saying. Compared to the safety of loved ones, Mueller is very much small beer.
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He’s landed at OSH! What a relief.
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My husband is planning to go to Oshkosh! I have long held that the decision to fly to Oshkosh ranks right up there with the decision to fly an unfamiliar craft and to fly in dicey weather, and just indicates a general, overall stupidity.
Crashes abound at that place. I've seen threads where pilots totally swear off ever going again after one visit, because of the danger and chaos and proximity.
How can I respect my husband's decisions ever again?
>:(
Heard this at the gym today; thought about you:
Girl you gotta love your man
Girl you gotta love your man
Take him by the hand
Make him understand
The world on you depends
Our life will never end
Gotta love your man
(Jim Morrison, "Riders on the Storm")
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I’m awfully glad he’s back, and that we are mutually happy to see each other again. I grouse on here about his flying, but I have a strong ethic about not ruining today, or creating regrets, by grousing at him. He know how I feel, but thank God we also know what’s really important in this life.
Plus, he brought me a cool t-shirt. 😎
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Sweet.
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I’m awfully glad he’s back, and that we are mutually happy to see each other again. I grouse on here about his flying, but I have a strong ethic about not ruining today, or creating regrets, by grousing at him. He know how I feel, but thank God we also know what’s really important in this life.
Plus, he brought me a cool t-shirt. 😎
After re-reading my post, I thought it sounded dumb and insulting. I apologize for that. At the time, I thought it was funny and I have always liked the Doors. Theirs was the only major concert I attended as a teenager.
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Well, there is an awful (and I mean awful) lot of truth to the narrative of flying breaking up marriages, if one spouse doesn’t want it there. My original thread on POA, in which I expressed my unhappiness about my husband flying, was filled with supportive suggestions but also with downright bashing of my view of the matter. “My first wife didn’t like my flying, so I found one who did.” “He’s a man, doing what men do, so just shut up already.” And so on.
Silently suffering while slavishly adhering to the ideal of “unconditional love” would wear out the staunchest spouse at some point, I believe. Love can die, slowly or suddenly, a harsh fact many people don’t believe until it happens to them.
I’ve been determined to find all the good I can in my husband and in our life together, respecting our different views, especially about flying. He also has made sure we have plenty of things we share, and time together. I cannot complain.