PILOT SPIN
Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on May 17, 2019, 08:02:56 PM
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It's well known Tigers are a superior aircraft, and vastly superior to Mooneys.
Your thoughts. ;D
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Oh God. Here comes Anthony.....
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I feel like a "Progressive", triggered.
Some people think the Grumman Tiger is like a fixed gear Mooney. No. The Mooney wing is totally different. The Mooney does not turn, nor have the light, "sports car" handling of a Tiger. The only similarity is the cleaner airframe, and efficiency. The Tiger is the best fixed gear, fixed prop 180HP airplane going. Even better than newer designs like the Diamond DA40.
The Tiger will get a good 15 - 20 KTAS over similarly powered Cessnas and Pipers, and the takeoff length isn't much more as opposed to what some people will say. My Tiger was based at a 1900 foot field before I acquired it, although I wouldn't use that field at gross weight.
The sliding canopy is great in the summer, and does NOT leak. My Cherokee leaked, my Tiger, never. The castoring nosewheel is simple, and allows excellent tight turns and ground maneuvering. You will get an honest 135 KTAS in cruise on 10 GPH, so with 51 gallons useable of fuel a good five hour range, so you can fly four hours with a one hour reserve.
The Tiger is an excellent IFR platform and not "twitchy" as some would have you believe. It also has a nice big rudder, and is excellent and very stable in crosswinds. Best crosswind plane I have ever flown.
However, the Tiger, like the Mooney will not tolerate speed (energy) mismanagement. If you don't do final at 70 knots (a bit slower or faster depending on weight) you will float all the way down the runway if too fast. If you try to force it onto the runway it will porpoise (Pilot Induced Oscillation) and you will get a nosewheel strike which is a big no no. You must land the Tiger on the mains, so if too fast, or too high or both, GO AROUND.
I have time in a Mooney M20F, and it is a very nice plane, and with 200 HP faster than the 180 HP Tiger. I also have a tiny bit if time in a M20C, which is also a nice plane but with 180 HP like the Tiger, and I believe it was about 5 knots faster, or maybe a few more. Pretty similar, but the Tiger is fixed gear, fixed prop, and is more fun to fly.
Much of my Time in the Tiger was east coast, but for several years I had it based in Colorado, and flew in and around the Rocky Mountains a lot. It was fine in that environment, but I kept it to a two place plane in the summer due to the Density Altitude issues. It has been to Leadville, CO (Lake County, KLXV) several times and was fine. KLXV is the highest public use airport in North America at 9.934 Feet.
There did I not get too uptight? :)
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No offense taken. Good healthy debate is just what this forum needs. We will have to do it again. What other topics can we talk about :-<
> Naughty Wizards are the best kind<i></i>
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My M20c will out climb and outrun any Tiger on any day. The Tiger gets its speed from a cruise prop (except those that have been equipped with constant speed props at considerable expense, comes standard on the Mooney) and as such climbs like a dog. A Tiger can only outrun a Mooney if its flogged, run it at 65-75% and its a 125 knot plane. My Mooney run that way is a 140 knot plane most days. What those of you drooling over Tigers forget is purchase price. Most Tigers sell for way more than similarly equipped Mooneys. The price for a well equipped Tiger can often buy a 201, which is about 30 knots faster.
The Mooney is an outstanding IFR platform, enormously stable in all axes. The only problem with the Mooney is you can't just point the nose down. A Mooney can go down or slow down, but not both at once. That, and pilots who fly Mooneys have to be on the trim side. Those wide of beam just don't fit. Sucks for them.
There are those who just don't have the stones to fly complex aircraft. For them Tigers are a really nice choice, about as fast as you can go in a trainer. I'll take my complex aircraft any day. Takes an endorsement to fly a Mooney. Takes a checkbook to fly a Tiger.
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There are those who just don't have the stones to fly complex aircraft. For them Tigers are a really nice choice, about as fast as you can go in a trainer. I'll take my complex aircraft any day. Takes an endorsement to fly a Mooney. Takes a checkbook to fly a Tiger.
Speed isn't everything. Babes love taildragger pilots. Neener neener.
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My Mooney run that way is a 140 knot plane most days.
And you brag about that? ::)
I own a Bonanaza and I laugh at your Mooney. 140kts; hah. I do that at about 50% power, or when climbing at >500ft/min.
I go about 170kts at 13gph and have room for my massive shoulders.
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My M20c will out climb and outrun any Tiger on any day. The Tiger gets its speed from a cruise prop (except those that have been equipped with constant speed props at considerable expense, comes standard on the Mooney) and as such climbs like a dog. A Tiger can only outrun a Mooney if its flogged, run it at 65-75% and its a 125 knot plane. My Mooney run that way is a 140 knot plane most days. What those of you drooling over Tigers forget is purchase price. Most Tigers sell for way more than similarly equipped Mooneys. The price for a well equipped Tiger can often buy a 201, which is about 30 knots faster.
The Mooney is an outstanding IFR platform, enormously stable in all axes. The only problem with the Mooney is you can't just point the nose down. A Mooney can go down or slow down, but not both at once. That, and pilots who fly Mooneys have to be on the trim side. Those wide of beam just don't fit. Sucks for them.
There are those who just don't have the stones to fly complex aircraft. For them Tigers are a really nice choice, about as fast as you can go in a trainer. I'll take my complex aircraft any day. Takes an endorsement to fly a Mooney. Takes a checkbook to fly a Tiger.
Complex - without a constant speed or controllable pitch propeller? Ok.
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And you brag about that? ::)
I own a Bonanaza and I laugh at your Mooney. 140kts; hah. I do that at about 50% power, or when climbing at >500ft/min.
I go about 170kts at 13gph and have room for my massive shoulders.
You'll never hear me say bad word about a Bo. I like the Mooney better because 1) I haven't massive shoulders hence don't need the room for them and 2) the only Bo's I could afford I couldn't afford the maintenance. Last I heard Textron isn't making any new tail feathers for them either.
Sorry, the M20c is the biggest bang for your buck in general aviation. It is the most speed you can get for the least money. And whoever said speed isn't everything obviously doesn't take many airplane trips. It is also the most least maintenance of all the complex singles. Bulletproof Johnson bar gear, hydraulic flaps, it has the least breakable and most easily maintained systems.
I only harp on Tigers because they're overprice in the marketplace IMHO.
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You'll never hear me say bad word about a Bo. I like the Mooney better because 1) I haven't massive shoulders hence don't need the room for them and 2) the only Bo's I could afford I couldn't afford the maintenance. Last I heard Textron isn't making any new tail feathers for them either.
Sorry, the M20c is the biggest bang for your buck in general aviation. It is the most speed you can get for the least money. And whoever said speed isn't everything obviously doesn't take many airplane trips. It is also the most least maintenance of all the complex singles. Bulletproof Johnson bar gear, hydraulic flaps, it has the least breakable and most easily maintained systems.
I only harp on Tigers because they're overprice in the marketplace IMHO.
Thanks for ruining my attempt to start an argument with your reasonableness.
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My M20c will out climb and outrun any Tiger on any day. The Tiger gets its speed from a cruise prop (except those that have been equipped with constant speed props at considerable expense, comes standard on the Mooney) and as such climbs like a dog. A Tiger can only outrun a Mooney if its flogged, run it at 65-75% and its a 125 knot plane. My Mooney run that way is a 140 knot plane most days. What those of you drooling over Tigers forget is purchase price. Most Tigers sell for way more than similarly equipped Mooneys. The price for a well equipped Tiger can often buy a 201, which is about 30 knots faster.
The Mooney is an outstanding IFR platform, enormously stable in all axes. The only problem with the Mooney is you can't just point the nose down. A Mooney can go down or slow down, but not both at once. That, and pilots who fly Mooneys have to be on the trim side. Those wide of beam just don't fit. Sucks for them.
There are those who just don't have the stones to fly complex aircraft. For them Tigers are a really nice choice, about as fast as you can go in a trainer. I'll take my complex aircraft any day. Takes an endorsement to fly a Mooney. Takes a checkbook to fly a Tiger.
You're about 10 knots low on the KTAS. The Tiger at 75% power pushes 140 KTAS at altitude. I flew mine at 65% - 70% normally and flight plan for 135 KTAS. I like the Mooney M20C a lot, but it gets maybe 5 - 7 knots more with the complex prop and retract gear. The Tiger is also more fun to fly, and has the nifty sliding canopy.
The Tigers are priced the way they are for a reason. They are worth it and people LIKE them. Plus you don't have to be an amputee to sit in the back seats. There is a reason the AOPA article about the Tiger was titled "The littlest Fighter". It is because it handles like one, but also a good IFR platform with plenty of stability.
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The Tigers are priced the way they are for a reason. They are worth it and people LIKE them. Plus you don't have to be an amputee to sit in the back seats.
One of the best flights of my life was in the back seat of a Tiger.
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You're about 10 knots low on the KTAS. The Tiger at 75% power pushes 140 KTAS at altitude. I flew mine at 65% - 70% normally and flight plan for 135 KTAS. I like the Mooney M20C a lot, but it gets maybe 5 - 7 knots more with the complex prop and retract gear. The Tiger is also more fun to fly, and has the nifty sliding canopy.
The Tigers are priced the way they are for a reason. They are worth it and people LIKE them. Plus you don't have to be an amputee to sit in the back seats. There is a reason the AOPA article about the Tiger was titled "The littlest Fighter". It is because it handles like one, but also a good IFR platform with plenty of stability.
Here’s Anthony leaving OSH in 2014.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
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Speed? so what? isn't the purpose of flying to be, ya know, flying?
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Speed? so what? isn't the purpose of flying to be, ya know, flying?
No.
The purpose is to fly FAST.
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No.
The purpose is to fly FAST.
I’ll take flying a 200HP 1943 Fairchild PT-26 at 110mph at 1,000 AGL with the canopy open and my arm on the canopy rail any day of the week.
THIS is flying.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190813/c7884a84ee630c3ba15fb2311637d6d2.jpg)
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Here’s Anthony leaving OSH in 2014.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
The F-5 is one of my favorites! Yeah, that's me. :)
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No.
The purpose is to fly FAST.
how sad for you.
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I’ll take flying a 200HP 1943 Fairchild PT-26 at 110mph at 1,000 AGL with the canopy open and my arm on the canopy rail any day of the week.
THIS is flying.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190813/c7884a84ee630c3ba15fb2311637d6d2.jpg)
I can't argue with that. It looks like fun. If I could have two airplanes I would love one of those. But if I tried to take that on a trip from Florida to Alaska, by time I got there, I'd have to turn right around.
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how sad for you.
Don't waste your pity on me, unless you think everyone should like exactly the same things.
Maybe when I get old I will like slow airplanes. But I'm only 67 now.
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Don't waste your pity on me, unless you think everyone should like exactly the same things.
Maybe when I get old I will like slow airplanes. But I'm only 67 now.
I'm flying my buddy's 2007 G36 Thursday. I may get younger flying it. :)
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... unless you think everyone should like exactly the same things.
hmmmmm
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You're about 10 knots low on the KTAS. The Tiger at 75% power pushes 140 KTAS at altitude. I flew mine at 65% - 70% normally and flight plan for 135 KTAS. I like the Mooney M20C a lot, but it gets maybe 5 - 7 knots more with the complex prop and retract gear. The Tiger is also more fun to fly, and has the nifty sliding canopy.
I fly mine at 70% and get 140 KTAS at altitude. Difference is I paid way way less for my Mooney than I could have for a Tiger. There are fewer Tigers, and the prices are a lot more. Don't know about insuring one.
The Tigers are priced the way they are for a reason. They are worth it and people LIKE them.
People LIKE things for all sorts of silly reasons. People bought pet rocks. Doesn't make them good for anything more than breaking windows.
Plus you don't have to be an amputee to sit in the back seats.
I use my back seats for Young Eagles and little else. When's the last time you actually had human bodies in the back seat? I could count the number of times I've had adult back seat passengers in an airplane on the fingers of one hand. Indeed, I wanted a short body Mooney since I didn't want to pay for a big, back seat, nor did I want to haul one around with me all the bleeding time.
There is a reason the AOPA article about the Tiger was titled "The littlest Fighter". It is because it handles like one, but also a good IFR platform with plenty of stability.
If you are unable to see the internal inconsistency in this last statement we're done.
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I use my back seats for Young Eagles and little else. When's the last time you actually had human bodies in the back seat? I could count the number of times I've had adult back seat passengers in an airplane on the fingers of one hand. Indeed, I wanted a short body Mooney since I didn't want to pay for a big, back seat, nor did I want to haul one around with me all the bleeding time.
I've had people in the back a decent amount except in the summers when I lived in Colorado, where the DA at my home field could get over 10K feet sometimes. But, it's not just about putting people in the back. I can fold down the rear seats and have a six foot long cargo space for a couple o bikes, camping gear or whatever else. Once I had the aileron from a Saratoga back there to take to a maintenance shop for a buddy of mine.
If you are unable to see the internal inconsistency in this last statement we're done.
Well then you no nothing about balance, and nuance. Just because the Tiger handles well, doesn't make it unstable. I have flown Mooneys. A friend's M20C, and another's M20F. I liked the F much better due to the extra 20 HP, and longer cabin. Have you ever flown a Tiger or just read abut them? Lots of misinformation out there.
Mooneys are great planes, but handle somewhat truck like. The only real upgrade for me would be an M20J/201 due to the speed mods and 160 KTAS cruise.