PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on March 18, 2020, 05:13:52 PM
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Really cool math models of virus spread in different scenarios.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
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I wonder how similar they are to the Man Made Climate Change models? :D
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I wonder how similar they are to the Man Made Climate Change models? :D
Looks like it's very similar. Pick the worst possible scenario, massively publicize it, and ignore everything else when it goes against your "settled" hypothesis. Demonize everyone who dares to say "wait a minute..."
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Not very realistic at all. First, about 90% of the dots should stop moving after they get the illness. They're sick, many of them spectacularly so. And about 1-2% of the sick dots should disappear, since that's the rough fatality rate of COVID-19.
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Not very realistic at all. First, about 90% of the dots should stop moving after they get the illness. They're sick, many of them spectacularly so. And about 1-2% of the sick dots should disappear, since that's the rough fatality rate of COVID-19.
Ding ding ding!!!!
Also the corrupted blood incident in World of Warcraft taught the CDC some things about unexpected human behavior that math model doesn’t consider such as some people risking illness in order to help others, and other people deliberately going around infecting others, and still others simply going into infected areas out of curiosity, and many others leaving the cities and self isolating in sparsely populated areas. Of course gaming behavior is not an ideal analogy either since in-world death is temporary but it is inconvenient.
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Not very realistic at all. First, about 90% of the dots should stop moving after they get the illness. They're sick, many of them spectacularly so. And about 1-2% of the sick dots should disappear, since that's the rough fatality rate of COVID-19.
That's a cool addition. The sick dots should also leave a trail of "sick" that affects whoever crosses it for a while until they become too sick to move.
Then pack a bunch of healthy dots in an aluminum tube with one sick dot. Fun!
When I went to the ortho to get my foot cast off I noticed that all the magazines are gone. They said it's because the virus can live on paper for a few days and they don't want it to spread that way. Never thought of that.
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That's a cool addition. The sick dots should also leave a trail of "sick" that affects whoever crosses it for a while until they become too sick to move.
Then pack a bunch of healthy dots in an aluminum tube with one sick dot. Fun!
When I went to the ortho to get my foot cast off I noticed that all the magazines are gone. They said it's because the virus can live on paper for a few days and they don't want it to spread that way. Never thought of that.
Our firm is quarantining all paper received from clients for two days. Admin is wearing surgical gloves when they disassemble these documents and scan them. We are also stressing to clients to accept digital copies of returns vs paper copies, and if they insist on paper, we are to talk to them about the health risks.
I’ve never seen anything like this.
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Our firm is quarantining all paper received from clients for two days. Admin is wearing surgical gloves when they disassemble these documents and scan them. We are also stressing to clients to accept digital copies of returns vs paper copies, and if they insist on paper, we are to talk to them about the health risks.
I’ve never seen anything like this.
My accountants are doing the same. It’s crazy. Past a certain point I’m not going to go to extreme lengths to avoid invisible hypothetical germs. The more I wash my hands the worse my eczema, and then I have little breaks in the skin inviting pathogens. I’m not going to wear a mask on my face or use latex gloves to read my mail or spray disinfectant on packages I get. I’ll take reasonable precautions but not hysterical ones.
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It's become insane. We are f*cked as a society. I'm sitting here in FULL SCUBA gear now, flippers and all! Just like the guy in "The Graduate" complete with breathing noises!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YceVzCVPMVE
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I'm still trying to get my hands on MOPP 4 gear. After all, we can't be too careful...
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Our firm is quarantining all paper received from clients for two days. Admin is wearing surgical gloves when they disassemble these documents and scan them. We are also stressing to clients to accept digital copies of returns vs paper copies, and if they insist on paper, we are to talk to them about the health risks.
I’ve never seen anything like this.
Put the paper into an oven and heat to at least 165 to 212 F for 5 to 10 minutes. Most paper shouldn’t catch on fire and according to web sources most viruses (except some extremophiles) become inactive anywhere from 165 to 212 F. So a setting of 225 or 250 should do the trick.
Let cool and add frosting for a sweet crispy desert.
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It's become insane. We are f*cked as a society. I'm sitting here in FULL SCUBA gear now, flippers and all! Just like the guy in "The Graduate" complete with breathing noises!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YceVzCVPMVE
"Plastics."
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"Plastics."
Everything that goes around, comes around, huh?
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Put the paper into an oven and heat to at least 165 to 212 F for 5 to 10 minutes. Most paper shouldn’t catch on fire and according to web sources most viruses (except some extremophiles) become inactive anywhere from 165 to 212 F. So a setting of 225 or 250 should do the trick.
Let cool and add frosting for a sweet crispy desert.
Not many CPA firms have autoclaves. And I’m guessing microwaves won’t work. Lol.
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Not many CPA firms have autoclaves. And I’m guessing microwaves won’t work. Lol.
A toaster oven or food dehydrator might work, depending on whether the paper fit inside. It may be that microwaves might work, depending on whether any of the viruses chemical bonds resonate at the microwave frequencies typically used.
There are fancy expensive tools to accomplish a task, and there are less expensive alternatives that work almost as well. For example, there are expensive industrial dehydrators for drying things like plastics. I found that the PLA plastic filament spools I use in my 3D printer absorbs air moisture and will cause occasional bubbles in the print. Plus the plastic filament gets brittle. Some firms were selling dehydrators for 3D spools for hundreds of dollars. But 3D hobbyists found that lightly modified cheap food dehydrators worked just fine, so I bought one for $50.
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It may be that microwaves might work, depending on whether any of the viruses chemical bonds resonate at the microwave frequencies typically used.
I don't think it would be good for the microwave. At least in the olden days we were warned never to run the MW dry or it will cause damage. You could put a cup of water in there and that would protect the MW, but the steam might not be good for the paperwork. The IRS won't accept "The Microwave ate my papers".
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This fucking virus isn't ANTHRAX!!!
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This fucking virus isn't ANTHRAX!!!
You'd think it was anthrax and Ebola sandwich.
It's contagious, about 1% deadly for high-risk patients who were probably going to die soon of something else, but people aren't going to drop in the street bleeding from their orifices. I can't believe the response.
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You'd think ti was anthrax and Ebola sandwich.
It's contagious, about 1% deadly for high-risk patients who were probably going to die soon of something else, but people aren't going to drop in the street bleeding from their orifices. I can't believe the response.
It might be closer to 3%, but that is still vastly different than the Ebola fatality rate
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It might be closer to 3%, but that is still vastly different than the Ebola fatality rate
It’s going to end up much lower than that, possibly:
The woefully inadequate data we have so far, the meta-research specialist argues, indicates that the extreme measures taken by many countries are likely way out of line and may result in ultimately unnecessary and catastrophic consequences. Due to extremely limited testing, we are likely missing “the vast majority of infections” from COVID-19, he states, thus making reported fatality rates from the World Health Organization “meaningless.”
“Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes,” Ioannidis explains. With very limited testing in many health systems, he suggests, that “selection bias” may only get worse going forward.
Ioannidis then zooms in on the “one situation” where “an entire, closed population was tested”: the Diamond Princess cruise ship’s quarantined passengers. While the fatality rate was 1.0%, he points out, the population was largely elderly, the most at-risk demographic. Projected out onto the age structure of the U.S. population, he calculates, the death rate is more like 0.125%, with a range of 0.025% to 0.625% based on the sample size
https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus?itm_source=parsely-api
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It’s going to end up much lower than that, possibly:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus?itm_source=parsely-api (https://www.dailywire.com/news/stanford-professor-data-indicates-were-overreacting-to-coronavirus?itm_source=parsely-api)
There was another closed environment where the entire population was tested: Vo Italy:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/eradicated-coronavirus-mass-testing-covid-19-italy-vo (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/eradicated-coronavirus-mass-testing-covid-19-italy-vo)
It has a population of 3000.
“We made an interesting finding: at the time the first symptomatic case was diagnosed, a significant proportion of the population, about 3%, had already been infected – yet most of them were completely asymptomatic.”
“In Italy, we have struggled with a rampant rise of mortality (the number of casualties divided by the number of infected people), which has reached an apparent value of 8% [...] only the obviously symptomatic subjects – those needing medical care – have been tested for the virus and thus counted as cases. [...] asymptomatic or quasi-symptomatic subjects represent a good 70% of all virus-infected people”
So the infected population was about 1+.70/.30 times larger (3.33). They had one reported death. Too small a number to say anything reliable, but at face value indicates an “actual” mortality rate of 1% whereas using only the symptomatic cases in the denominator would make it seem there was a mortality rate of 3.7%
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https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/super_flu_or_a_mild_cold.html
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Again, for the vast, vast majority of people, contracting this corona virus is NOT a death sentence. It is a cold/flu. If you are already compromised with health issues and/or age, then yes, you are at much higher risk. Act accordingly.
This is the largest ploy to control an election, economy and society in my lifetime, and after this is all over, we have to make our voices heard to make sure it does not happen again.
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Again, for the vast, vast majority of people, contracting this corona virus is NOT a death sentence. It is a cold/flu. If you are already compromised with health issues and/or age, then yes, you are at much higher risk. Act accordingly.
This is the largest ploy to control an election, economy and society in my lifetime, and after this is all over, we have to make our voices heard to make sure it does not happen again.
THIS!
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I would love to see a list with party affiliation of each governor or mayor that has called to shut down businesses, etc. I have a pretty good idea how it would weighted.
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I would love to see a list with party affiliation of each governor or mayor that has called to shut down businesses, etc. I have a pretty good idea how it would weighted.
Just look at those that think we need to shut down everything for weeks, and even months. You'll see a common thread.
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Again, for the vast, vast majority of people, contracting this corona virus is NOT a death sentence. It is a cold/flu. If you are already compromised with health issues and/or age, then yes, you are at much higher risk. Act accordingly.
This is the largest ploy to control an election, economy and society in my lifetime, and after this is all over, we have to make our voices heard to make sure it does not happen again.
I really hope this (like all their schemes to get rid of Trump) royally backfires on them, and he wins in November by a popular vote margin over 60%. I could then die happy.
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https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/
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https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/
I read this earlier. We have allowed the leftist progressives to whip this into hysteria, and their MSM to stoke the flames.
The genie is out of the bottle, and the leftist now have a new chapter in their playbook.
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I read this earlier. We have allowed the leftist progressives to whip this into hysteria, and their MSM to stoke the flames.
The genie is out of the bottle, and the leftist now have a new chapter in their playbook.
Let's hope it has awakened the Sleeping Giant of who really populates, and values America for what it represents.
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Let's hope it has awakened the Sleeping Giant of who really populates, and values America for what it represents.
I suspect as we come out of this more Americans will move conservative. This has been a huge wakeup call, and the MSM has put on such a shitty display that more and more are waking up to just how vile and deceptive the leftist progressives truly are.
To the dismay of the leftist and their media, Trump's approval numbers have increased, not declined. The DNC's presumptive nominee keeps making a fool of himself even as the MSM tries to hide it.
This summer the leftist will bombard the media with claims of how bad the economy is, and of course, point the blame at Trump. They will continually decry our only hope is to elect a dementia ridden old man and let his subrogates institute bigger government and more socialist agendas.
Now that they (leftist) know how to crash a thriving economy, don't be surprised this fall as we approach election that another "epidemic" appears, you know, the flu and cold season. They will get their media to go into hysteria and demand action.
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I suspect as we come out of this more Americans will move conservative. This has been a huge wakeup call, and the MSM has put on such a shitty display that more and more are waking up to just how vile and deceptive the leftist progressives truly are.
To the dismay of the leftist and their media, Trump's approval numbers have increased, not declined. The DNC's presumptive nominee keeps making a fool of himself even as the MSM tries to hide it.
This summer the leftist will bombard the media with claims of how bad the economy is, and of course, point the blame at Trump. They will continually decry our only hope is to elect a dementia ridden old man and let his subrogates institute bigger government and more socialist agendas.
Now that they (leftist) know how to crash a thriving economy, don't be surprised this fall as we approach election that another "epidemic" appears, you know, the flu and cold season. They will get their media to go into hysteria and demand action.
When the dust settles and people realize this was a big nothing, or at least not anything like the Media and Democrats were telling them, hopefully most won't put up with another economy, wealth crashing move.
If this turns out like I think it will, there would be a REVOLT if they tried to do this again. Yes, I know they will take credit for "flattening the curve" and saving all those people with their destructive, complete shut down policies.
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The one single good thing about this is it’s a great dry run for a REAL plague.
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Whipping up more hysteria https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients
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The one single good thing about this is it’s a great dry run for a REAL plague.
Either that, or it turns out to be a big nothing as many believe.
THEN, when a REAL plague comes along; well, "The boy who cried wolf" comes to mind.
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The one single good thing about this is it’s a great dry run for a REAL plague.
What to confirm we are a nation of wusses and Nancy Boys (present company excluded) that accept government control and over reach without question?
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I'm starting to think this virus is some sort of evil magic. I didn't believe the stories of people transmitting the virus in the absence of symptoms at first, it flies in the face of everything I know about viruses. But I'm now hearing it from trustworthy sources. How it does that I'll never know.
Then there's it's persistence on surfaces. I'm hearing sober sources with good methodology measure persistence for days. There are bacteria that can't do that. This is like some sort of evil magic descending upon us.
Sorry, everything we're going through is well worth it. We don't do all this stuff and this virus will rip through our population like a hot knife through butter. It'll tank our medical system and take a bunch of things with it. The only growth industry will be death care.
And my biggest worry isn't for right now, like I've been saying unless this is really and truly a magic virus summer should stop it. Viruses don't like hot temperatures and sunshine. Two of their routes of infection, aerosols and surfaces, aren't available anymore. Yes they can still be transmitted, but it isn't as easy for them.
But next fall...
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This is like some sort of evil magic descending upon us.
I know all the conspiracy theories have rightfully been debunked, but if someone was actually trying to come up with a virus to cause a pandemic, he couldn't do much better than this.
Tim
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I know all the conspiracy theories have rightfully been debunked, but if someone was actually trying to come up with a virus to cause a pandemic, he couldn't do much better than this.
Tim
I'm not so sure as even if most people get it, a very, very small percentage, mostly old and already compromised will be at risk. Those are the people that should be quarantined.
I do know that the playbook for future biological, societal upheaval now includes this type of virus.
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I know all the conspiracy theories have rightfully been debunked, but if someone was actually trying to come up with a virus to cause a pandemic, he couldn't do much better than this.
Tim
You'd want something that targets the very young and maybe military age males.
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You'd want something that targets the very young and maybe military age males.
Evidently, not if you just want to crash the economy and create societal upheaval.
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You'd want something that targets the very young and maybe military age males.
That would certainly be correct if you wanted a true biological weapon, but as Anthony suggested, maybe the goal could be simple societal upheaval and/or political disruption.
Edit: Anthony beat me to the punch on this one.
Tim
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And my biggest worry isn't for right now, like I've been saying unless this is really and truly a magic virus summer should stop it. Viruses don't like hot temperatures and sunshine.
That's why I question them closing the beaches.
Ok, perhaps there is the issue of really crowded beaches with little personal separation, but why are they banning beach driving? That is almost by definition, social distancing. Those people in those cars would be close together even if they weren't in cars at the beach.
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That would certainly be correct if you wanted a true biological weapon, but as Anthony suggested, maybe the goal could be simple societal upheaval and/or political disruption.
Edit: Anthony beat me to the punch on this one.
Tim
It was you who inspired me sir. :)
Who benefits from a U.S. economic severe downturn, and potentially Trump gone and a Biden Presidency?
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And my biggest worry isn't for right now, like I've been saying unless this is really and truly a magic virus summer should stop it. Viruses don't like hot temperatures and sunshine. Two of their routes of infection, aerosols and surfaces, aren't available anymore. Yes they can still be transmitted, but it isn't as easy for them.
But next fall...
I agree that's how normal viruses work. But right now Australia is getting infected and they are in the warm season. How is the spread down under compared to the spread here in the north?
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I agree that's how normal viruses work. But right now Australia is getting infected and they are in the warm season. How is the spread down under compared to the spread here in the north?
https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers
"Of the 874 confirmed cases in Australia, 7 have died from COVID-19. More than 115,000 tests have been conducted across Australia."
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https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers
"Of the 874 confirmed cases in Australia, 7 have died from COVID-19. More than 115,000 tests have been conducted across Australia."
Makes me feel a bit better. Yay for global warming!
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I agree that's how normal viruses work. But right now Australia is getting infected and they are in the warm season. How is the spread down under compared to the spread here in the north?
Australia is a big Continent/Country. Much of it is close to the S. Pole. I'm curious if they see any difference between North Australia and South Austrailia.
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I'm not so sure as even if most people get it, a very, very small percentage, mostly old and already compromised will be at risk. Those are the people that should be quarantined.
I do know that the playbook for future biological, societal upheaval now includes this type of virus.
The problem is the rate for severe life-threatening but treatable illness is running about 20%. There hasn’t been a sickness like this for 100 years. Easily transmissible, highly infectious with a hospitalization rate that high. Before vaccines Polio maybe. And I think for Polio outbreaks they used to do what we’re doing now.
Plagues are no new things. There are plagues you’ve never heard of that killed millions. And if you think GDP and economic output are important, you’ll realize they don’t amount to a hill of beans when you’re dying of Coronavirus
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. There hasn’t been a sickness like this for 100 years. ...
sure, if you ignore the flu that happens every year.
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sure, if you ignore the flu that happens every year.
How conveniently he forgets. I project that this will be no worse than most typical years for deaths from viruses. What a total scam. If it is worse, it will be only marginally worse, and not at all justification for U.S. economic shutdown.
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https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-evidence-over-hysteria
BTW, twitter has banned this article, and when you try to to view it, they place warnings to discourage you from going to the site.
Wonder why?
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How conveniently he forgets. I project that this will be no worse than most typical years for deaths from viruses. What a total scam. If it is worse, it will be only marginally worse, and not at all justification for U.S. economic shutdown.
But the Kool Aid is cherry flavored this time! And it's free! Drink up!
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Social distancing and quarantine will only lengthen the time of infection. It will NOT reduce the total number of people getting infected. The only benefit is not overwhelming ER's and ICU's. We will contract the virus and build up an immunity like all the other viruses. Those that are old, weak, sick, etc, are at risk for a worse time.
All these measures are doing is drawing things out, not saving lives.
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Social distancing and quarantine will only lengthen the time of infection. It will NOT reduce the total number of people getting infected. The only benefit is not overwhelming ER's and ICU's. We will contract the virus and build up an immunity like all the other viruses. Those that are old, weak, sick, etc, are at risk for a worse time.
All these measures are doing is drawing things out, not saving lives.
Yea, but...........Fauci says we need to shut everything down for several weeks..........................
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Yea, but...........Fauci says we need to shut everything down for several weeks..........................
You mean Fauci the Hillary worshipper. That Fauci?
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Social distancing and quarantine will only lengthen the time of infection. It will NOT reduce the total number of people getting infected. The only benefit is not overwhelming ER's and ICU's. We will contract the virus and build up an immunity like all the other viruses. Those that are old, weak, sick, etc, are at risk for a worse time.
All these measures are doing is drawing things out, not saving lives.
To be fair, reducing the peak demand on medical services can in fact help save lives.
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You mean Fauci the Hillary worshipper. That Fauci?
Yep, that one. He's a swamp dweller. Unfortunately he was forced upon Trump, and at this time the President can't do anything about it.
Once this is over, Fauci needs to go.
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The problem is the rate for severe life-threatening but treatable illness is running about 20%.
Is that 20% of cases bad enough to drive you to your doctor to be tested? Are they accounting for all the cases asymptomatic or so mild you don't do anything about it?
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To be fair, reducing the peak demand on medical services can in fact help save lives.
That's true, but is it worth what we are doing, and could temporary ER's be set up instead to handle the peak demand for services? It would seem creating more capacity for emergency healthcare and testing would be a better alternative than crashing the economy.
Yes, your point is valid.
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That's true, but is it worth what we are doing, and could temporary ER's be set up instead to handle the peak demand for services? It would seem creating more capacity for emergency healthcare and testing would be a better alternative than crashing the economy.
Yes, your point is valid.
I’m tending to agree with you now. It would have been better to let it peak high and get it over with because the long term suffering and even deaths from lost jobs, lost wealth and a crashed economy could end up totaling far more.
Michael is right that you don’t care about the economy if you are dying of the coronavirus. But most people won’t die of it, not even close, and care a great deal.
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Yet another great hoax perpetuated on the American people.
Hopefully enough people are waking up to just how evil and vile the leftist progressives truly are, and realizing that they will burn everything down just to get their way.
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I don't understand why temporary testing and treatment centers haven't been set up to handle a surge of those with symptoms. Most of these people have other cold and flue viruses. Not Corona.
We've even set up mobile surgical units in the past in war zones! The Armed forces do it all the time. If we have the ability to do that, why not mobile, temporary Virus testing and treatment units?
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I don't understand why temporary testing and treatment centers haven't been set up to handle a surge of those with symptoms. Most of these people have other cold and flue viruses. Not Corona.
We've even set up mobile surgical units in the past in war zones! The Armed forces do it all the time. If we have the ability to do that, why not mobile, temporary Virus testing and treatment units?
This.
Again, look behind the curtain.
Gee, back in December, remember when the dims were going breakneck speed to impeach Trump? Remember, we were told that it was dire, and we had to remove him immediately to save the country. Then there was the 5 week delay, then the "let's drag impeachment out for months".
The sarcastic side of me says there were many factors in play. The dims were keeping this current event on the back burner because they knew the impeachment hoax would fail.
Timing for all of this is rather suspect, and with the MSM stoking daily panic makes it even seem more suspect.
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I don't understand why temporary testing and treatment centers haven't been set up to handle a surge of those with symptoms. Most of these people have other cold and flue viruses. Not Corona.
We've even set up mobile surgical units in the past in war zones! The Armed forces do it all the time. If we have the ability to do that, why not mobile, temporary Virus testing and treatment units?
There aren't enough test kits available.
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There aren't enough test kits available.
Let’s talk about that. Why are they in short supply?
I saw the governor of Michigan complaining about the lack of test kits. She has two world class universities in her state. Same with nearly every other governor. Why not unleash the research and medical potential by getting the MDs and PhDs to put test kits together? Think of the army of smart people who could do this if they were put to the task?
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It's not the kits that are the bottleneck, it's the labs that processes the swabs.
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Let’s talk about that. Why are they in short supply?
I saw the governor of Michigan complaining about the lack of test kits. She has two world class universities in her state. Same with nearly every other governor. Why not unleash the research and medical potential by getting the MDs and PhDs to put test kits together? Think of the army of smart people who could do this if they were put to the task?
Just how long do people think it should take to develop and then mass-produce millions of test kits? Especially consider the expectation that these kits should be just about free (if one listens to the bleating of the left)
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It's not the kits that are the bottleneck, it's the labs that processes the swabs.
I’ve heard the opposite. One of my managers has been out with pneumonia since March 6. I asked if they tested him for Covid-19, and he said he didn’t think so, and was told they don’t have enough kits at this large hospital group and they felt confident it was “just” pneumonia.
If it is labs to process the tests, surely universities could be well suited to do that.
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I’ve heard the opposite. One of my managers has been out with pneumonia since March 6. I asked if they tested him for Covid-19, and he said he didn’t think so, and was told they don’t have enough kits at this large hospital group and they felt confident it was “just” pneumonia.
If it is labs to process the tests, surely universities could be well suited to do that.
And yet they test Senator Rand Paul "out of an abundance of caution", even though he was asymptomatic. He tested positive.
And they still try to say we are a "classless" society. That is true, unless you are not in the privileged class.
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What does it take to get a lab certified?
Would we accept a lab result that wouldn't stand up in court?
What lab would accept the responsibility for reporting possibly incorrect results (false positive or false negative)?
I'm thinking about those OTC test kits for opiods or THC or colesterol. The kit instructions usually indicate that the results are presumptive and need to be confirmed by a certified test. Would such a presumptive test be useful or would everyone much rather have the certified results?