PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on June 20, 2023, 02:02:34 PM
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So a tourist submersible going to veiw the Titanic wreck is lost. At 10k to 12k depth, there is little room for error. Yet people pay big bucks to go down in a questionable craft to look at an old shipwreck.
I personally don't understand why. The seas are filled with shipwrecks, often in waters much shallower and easier to veiw.
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$250,000 sure doesn’t get you the entertainment you expected.
I can’t imagine a worse feeling than either being lost below the waves, suffocating, or waiting for 5,000 PSI to hit you.
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Good chance the ship imploded, and at that depth it was extremly quick, they never knew what got them.
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My understanding is that there were no customers, just crew.
Of course that doesn't make it any better though.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12215585/Coast-Guard-admits-not-able-rescue-five-people-board-missing-Titanic-tourist-sub.html
There are five people onboard, including three wealthy tourists, and the sub's oxygen supply is now just 40 hours, giving rescue crews until Thursday morning to find it before it runs out.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12215585/Coast-Guard-admits-not-able-rescue-five-people-board-missing-Titanic-tourist-sub.html
I guess I misunderstood it.
Or the article I read the other day got it wrong.
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Ok, this might explain my confusion.
I read this:
The Titanic-touring vessel contained one pilot and four "mission specialists,".
But I missed this:
According to the U.S. Coast Guard. "Mission specialists" are paid passengers that take turns operating sonar equipment and performing the tasks necessary to complete a dive.
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I don't like being in anything I can't fly nor drive. Hard pass.
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I don't like being in anything I can't fly nor drive. Hard pass.
Yep. The kid who was my back seater in the PT-26 on my first flight into AirVenture just finished a 6-year commitment to the Navy. He was on the USS Key West, a Los Angeles class submarine.
No thank you.
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I don't like being in anything I can't fly nor drive. Hard pass.
Me too. In five hours I’ll be trapped in a large tube in the sky that I’m not flying. Then DFW for a couple of hours, then another big sardine can I can’t fly or even see out the front windshield of. I hate it. No offense to you airline pilots. I love you. Please don’t kill me today.
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Me too. In five hours I’ll be trapped in a large tube in the sky that I’m not flying. Then DFW for a couple of hours, then another big sardine can I can’t fly or even see out the front windshield of. I hate it. No offense to you airline pilots. I love you. Please don’t kill me today.
Safe travels.
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And the only way out of that fancy propane tank is to have someone on the outside undo a dozen bolts. No way for anyone inside to escape on their own.
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Inspirational my ass. I’ll take the retired military eight days a week.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1671372833979785217
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<sigh>
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Inspirational my ass. I’ll take the retired military eight days a week.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1671372833979785217
Good grief. Maybe I'm a bad person, but now I find myself hoping that there is a tragedy.
From the comments:
Lost Sub: HELP! Somebody please save us!
Company: We read you loud and clear but can’t send anyone to help you right now.
Lost Sub: WTF?! WHY?!
Company: No BIPOC people were available ATM to do a deep water dive search and rescue. Have a nice life, though! ✌️
Lost Sub: ?!
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Good grief. Maybe I'm a bad person, but now I find myself hoping that there is a tragedy.
From the comments:
This crap is just insanity. I hope these Masters of the Universe realize how WRONG they were.
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Where da engineering team at?
https://oceangateexpeditions.com/our-team/
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Safe travels.
Thanks! Made it to NC!
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Help me out. These things are taken to sea by a ship, right? Seems said ship would stay right over the launch area until the submersible resurfaces. The submersible does have emergency equipment like air bladders to use for resurfacing in case of emergency. But even if they were able to resurface, apparently the surface search underway right now covers 10,000 square miles, I presume because the craft could drift. But wouldn’t there be a locator beacon of some sort that would let it be located? My theory is that it had a structural failure and everything just sank.
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Help me out. These things are taken to sea by a ship, right? Seems said ship would stay right over the launch area until the submersible resurfaces. The submersible does have emergency equipment like air bladders to use for resurfacing in case of emergency. But even if they were able to resurface, apparently the surface search underway right now covers 10,000 square miles, I presume because the craft could drift. But wouldn’t there be a locator beacon of some sort that would let it be located? My theory is that it had a structural failure and everything just sank.
currents push surface ships
currents push subs. how far would a 5 knot current push a sub in the time it takes to come up from 12000’ ?
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currents push surface ships
currents push subs. how far would a 5 knot current push a sub in the time it takes to come up from 12000’ ?
Seems maybe there would be multiple locator beacons or signals then? Surely this very scenario was strategized for? This is why I think it’s on the bottom.
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Help me out. These things are taken to sea by a ship, right? Seems said ship would stay right over the launch area until the submersible resurfaces. The submersible does have emergency equipment like air bladders to use for resurfacing in case of emergency. But even if they were able to resurface, apparently the surface search underway right now covers 10,000 square miles, I presume because the craft could drift. But wouldn’t there be a locator beacon of some sort that would let it be located? My theory is that it had a structural failure and everything just sank.
Becky, my inclination is that something failed terribly, except for the banging that has been heard. I do wonder why their team has not been able to do anything or provide any useful info.
Just found this.....https://thepostmillennial.com/it-was-a-suicide-mission-german-adventurer-recalls-his-past-experience-aboard-titanic-exploring-submersible-now-lost-at-sea
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Everything I've read regarding this "craft" and the company's CEO (who ironically will likely go down with the ship, literally) was "designed" on the back of a napkin and the former director of operations quit because the CEO was 100% opposed to any third-party certifications, because "inspiration" was more important than safety and he didn't want "50 year old white guys" piloting it.
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I do wonder why their team has not been able to do anything or provide any useful info.
Just found this.....https://thepostmillennial.com/it-was-a-suicide-mission-german-adventurer-recalls-his-past-experience-aboard-titanic-exploring-submersible-now-lost-at-sea
DEI hires. What could possibly go wrong?
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Everything I've read regarding this "craft" and the company's CEO (who ironically will likely go down with the ship, literally) was "designed" on the back of a napkin and the former director of operations quit because the CEO was 100% opposed to any third-party certifications, because "inspiration" was more important than safety and he didn't want "50 year old white guys" piloting it.
We reap what we sow. In this case he may have reaped the reaper.
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Everything I've read regarding this "craft" and the company's CEO (who ironically will likely go down with the ship, literally) was "designed" on the back of a napkin and the former director of operations quit because the CEO was 100% opposed to any third-party certifications, because "inspiration" was more important than safety and he didn't want "50 year old white guys" piloting it.
I wonder how many “50-year old white guys” are involved in the rescue of that submersible? Asking for a friend.
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Anyone know what difference this makes?
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Anyone know what difference this makes?
Perhaps pointing out that this unfortunately means less money for the GOP or perhaps extending sadomasochistic authoritarians some good news.
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Fake. A conservative would have hired the retired military white guys.
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Becky, my inclination is that something failed terribly, except for the banging that has been heard. I do wonder why their team has not been able to do anything or provide any useful info.
This is what I think. It drifted a bit off course then had a catastrophic implosion which would have presumably broke it into pieces, not easily recognizable as the submersible by sonar especially if not in the immediate vicinity of the Titanic. I don’t buy the banging. It was picked up by an aircraft using listening buoys. Who knows what that was if anything.
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This is what I think. It drifted a bit off course then had a catastrophic implosion which would have presumably broke it into pieces, not easily recognizable as the submersible by sonar especially if not in the immediate vicinity of the Titanic. I don’t buy the banging. It was picked up by an aircraft using listening buoys. Who knows what that was if anything.
I agree. All speculation of course, but I think it imploded and they all died instantly. Take stupid risks pay stupid prices.
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I agree. All speculation of course, but I think it imploded and they all died instantly. Take stupid risks pay stupid prices.
With the CEO who put diversity hire over merit and brushed off safety concerns when warned. This has got to be one of the greatest self owns of all time.
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I agree. All speculation of course, but I think it imploded and they all died instantly. Take stupid risks pay stupid prices.
I believe that when you’re so rich that all worldly things are ordinary one has to do otherworldly things just to get a kick. Go into space on SpaceX, go to the Titanic, etc.
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I believe that when you’re so rich that all worldly things are ordinary one has to do otherworldly things just to get a kick. Go into space on SpaceX, go to the Titanic, etc.
I agree. It's a different plane of existence I guess. Essentially they can no longer be "grounded". I mean look at us. We need to fly planes to get our kicks. Some people think THAT is nuts. :)
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With the CEO who put diversity hire over merit and brushed off safety concerns when warned. This has got to be one of the greatest self owns of all time.
This trend is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.
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I think also that it was crushed. This guy says there are ways for them to resurface but none were used,
https://newstalk870.am/salvage-expert-has-little-hope-for-titanic-sub-recovery/
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This trend is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.
Big time.
https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/01/complex-systems-wont-survive-the-competence-crisis/
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This trend is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.
And I guess I’m a bad person for actually pulling for karma to kick these people in the ass.
I feel the same when some California tourists walk up to pet Bison in Yellowstone. Goooo Bisons!!!
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Big time.
https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/01/complex-systems-wont-survive-the-competence-crisis/
Looks like a great article, but it’s long! I’ll have to read it this weekend.
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More resurfacing options.
“Josh Gates, a Discovery Channel host who also took a dive in the Titan in 2021, told CNN in a separate report there were four ways to get the submersible to resurface. According to Gates, there is a computer-controlled weight release, a manual-valve system that injects air into exterior ballast containers and a hydraulic system designed to drop the weights. The submersible can also detach from its sled which helps the vessel resurface.
Even if the Titan has resurfaced, however, the passengers have no way of exiting the vessel as they are dead-bolted in from the outside, making the search for the missing submersible all the more desperate as oxygen stores deplete. With just 96 hours of oxygen purported to be on board, the Titan’s crew, missing since Sunday, will need a “miracle” to get out of this situation alive.”
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Big time.
https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/01/complex-systems-wont-survive-the-competence-crisis/
Great article. The stupidity of Leftists never ceases to amaze me. They live in an unrealistic fantasy world of feel good, destructive, make believe.
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More resurfacing options.
“Josh Gates, a Discovery Channel host who also took a dive in the Titan in 2021, told CNN in a separate report there were four ways to get the submersible to resurface. According to Gates, there is a computer-controlled weight release, a manual-valve system that injects air into exterior ballast containers and a hydraulic system designed to drop the weights. The submersible can also detach from its sled which helps the vessel resurface.
Even if the Titan has resurfaced, however, the passengers have no way of exiting the vessel as they are dead-bolted in from the outside, making the search for the missing submersible all the more desperate as oxygen stores deplete. With just 96 hours of oxygen purported to be on board, the Titan’s crew, missing since Sunday, will need a “miracle” to get out of this situation alive.”
This submersable is clown show designed. It's "backups" were a joke.
When the Thresher was lost, on their last transmission they were going to attempt an emergency blow of the ballast tanks. However, due to a design error, the lines of the air supply had frozen over due to the low temps and prevented the blow. I suspect this crudely built sub didn't take this into account.
Computer controlled weight release is no good without electricity. This vessel has documented electrical failures on dives. The hydraulic system, again, would be of no use if it relies on electric controlled valves.
Any penetration of the pressure hull is a weak point, and with 5000psi surrounding the craft, makes the smallest leak a danger. From everything I have read, there are minimal if any thru hulls.
There are reports that the veiw port has been flexing in on dives. How many dives was it stressed for? Who knows as it appears the company shunned engineering and safety.
The closing from the outside without any way to open from the inside is beyond stupid, and goes to show the lack of engineering and cheap construction.
General Dynamics Electric Boat has a lot of those old white guy engineers (among others) who wouldn't touch this contraption, and could have offered sound advise. But hey, what would they know, right? ::)
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I’m waiting for rachel madcow to proclaim that four years of Trump -Pence weakened regulations so badly that these accidents are inevitable.
Of course, mikey would believe her.
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The eight-hour delay in OceanGate reporting the comms loss apparently was because the submersible usually returns in eight hours and they’d had comms failures before, so they decided just to wait. Brilliant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIbBaWQE5U
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Just saw this, may not mean anything......
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With just 96 hours of oxygen purported to be on board, the Titan’s crew, missing since Sunday, will need a “miracle” to get out of this situation alive.”
Let's just suppose you are one of the 5.
96 hours of O2 for 5 people = 480 hours for one person.
Just sayin,
There might be one or two survivors.
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With the CEO who put diversity hire over merit and brushed off safety concerns when warned. This has got to be one of the greatest self owns of all time.
This trend is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.
United Airlines' official policy is DEI hires over experience and merit. Remember that when you're making travel plans.
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Let's just suppose you are one of the 5.
96 hours of O2 for 5 people = 480 hours for one person.
Just sayin,
There might be one or two survivors.
They had no system to scrub the CO2 from the air. I think that would have killed them before running out of oxygen.
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This trend is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.
Idiocracy in the making.
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Looks like the outcome we were all expecting...reports saying piecesof the sub found on the ocean floor.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230622/7fb88c2b1ba0a53d7049b4e9e884d611.jpg)
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I guess the company went under.
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One ping Vasily. Only one.
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Looks like the outcome we were all expecting...reports saying piecesof the sub found on the ocean floor.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464
From the BBC link:
“A submarine expert who worked for OceanGate – the company that operates the missing submersible – warned of potential safety problems in 2018, according to US court documents.
David Lochridge moved from Scotland to Washington state to work for the firm. In a BBC interview in 2017 he enthused about the mission and said it was "destined for the sea".
But less than a year later he warned his bosses that flaws in the Titan's carbon hull might go undetected without more stringent testing, and urged the company to have an outside agency certify the vessel.
He said his verbal warnings were ignored until he wrote a report and was called into a meeting with several officials - including OceanGate chief executive Stockton Rush, who is aboard the missing submersible.
OceanGate responded by firing Lochridge. The company sued him for revealing confidential information, and the submarine expert countersued for unfair dismissal. The lawsuit was later settled.
Through his lawyer, Lochridge declined to comment.
Court documents also state that Lochridge learned that the manufacturers of the Titan’s forward viewport only certified it to a depth of 1,300 metres. The Titanic wreck lies 3,800 metres below the ocean surface.”
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From the WSJ:
Top Secret U.S. Navy System Heard Titan Implosion Days Ago
Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first detected Titan tragedy
By Ben Kesling, Gordon Lubold, Costas Paris
June 22, 2023 at 5:37 pm ET
WASHINGTON—A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission, officials involved in the search said.
The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.
“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”
The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns.
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I guess the company went under.
Got me chuckling! 🤣
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From the WSJ:
Top Secret U.S. Navy System Heard Titan Implosion Days Ago
Underwater microphones designed to detect enemy submarines first detected Titan tragedy
By Ben Kesling, Gordon Lubold, Costas Paris
June 22, 2023 at 5:37 pm ET
WASHINGTON—A top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission, officials involved in the search said.
The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.
“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”
The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns.
Back in my day it was called SOSUS.
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The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns.
I have to laugh at that request.
If the Navy doesn't want the specific system used to be named, then all the Navy has to do is NOT TELL ANYONE.
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I have to laugh at that request.
If the Navy doesn't want the specific system used to be named, then all the Navy has to do is
NOT TELL ANYONE.
Ding ding! Especially since we all know now that the thing imploded or exploded. Full stop. The Navy just had to get their oar in. “See what we have! We can hear subs!”
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The SOSUS network is in Tom Clancy novels and others.
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Unbelievable really.
https://streamable.com/y3u011
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The SOSUS network is in Tom Clancy novels and others.
Exactly. I read all Clancy’s major novels, and SOSUS was a big part of a few of them.
Now, we can’t have SOSUS, because it ends in US, and that probably is the white supremacist cry of the super duper MAGA crowd.
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(http://)
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But I want "inspiring"!
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But I want "inspiring"!
And it KILLED you.
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And it KILLED you.
But you felt good...
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Too soon?
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The CEO was under a lot of pressure. Lots of sunk costs.
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In other news, Obama is very upset that the submarine rescue attempt got more press than a boat full of migrants sinking off Greece.
In an interview with CNN host Christiane Amanpour in Athens, Greece Thursday night, the 44th president railed against "inequality" in our "democracy" and claimed the fact that news of the missing OceanGate sub dominated the news cycle, while the sinking of a migrant boat in the Mediterranean Sea did not, is an example of this "inequality."
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Anyone surprised the father/son Pakistanis got in that thing?
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In other news, Obama is very upset that the submarine rescue attempt got more press than a boat full of migrants sinking off Greece.
More proof Obama the Marxist and HIS appointed staff members are running the country, excuse me, ruining the country. Of course Susan Rice left recently for some reason. But you can she’s helping plot something with the Marxist, worries about 2024 most likely.
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Anyone surprised the father/son Pakistanis got in that thing?
Given all that now is known, and apparently has been known by literal experts for years, about the company, the CEO, and “that thing,” I’m surprised anyone got into it. I wouldn’t get into it on dry land. Hubris, idiocy or both would be required to go two miles under the sea in it. I suppose one could begin to think one was so special or “inspiring” that the laws of physics wouldn’t apply to one.
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Never again. “You are going to kill somebody.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65998914
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Never again. “You are going to kill somebody.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65998914
What a tool. >:(
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Here's an interesting factoid: Isador Straus, the co-founder of Macy's, and his wife perished on the Titanic. Their great-great-granddaughter, Wendy Rush is married to the CEO of OceanGate, who died trying to reach the Titanic.
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I saw a YouTube video of a former Navy deep sea diver who said their bodies were immediately “returned to the circle of life” as they basically disintegrated when the pressure vessel blew.