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Messages - Lucifer

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2281
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 29, 2016, 10:32:59 AM »
So what makes you think Trump will make it to the White House?  He is losing in nearly every poll to Hillary Clinton (RCP Clinton + 2.8), and his negatives are lodged at 58%.

Meanwhile Cruz beats Clinton (RCP Cruz + .8) and Rubio beats Clinton (RCP Rubio +4.7). 

Did you watch the Chris Wallace interview that I posted here yesterday?  Tell me where he actually answered a question.

What troubles me is that you talk about the Cruz and Rubio schoolyard shenanigans, but never say the same thing or worse about Trump, and that's  consistent with all Trump supporters that I know.

Take any issue that I've posted here:  pro-eminent domain to give property to private owners, anti-First Amendment desire to "open up" the libel laws so he can sue people, and numerous other liberal positions, and I don't think I've received one post in defense of Trump. Not one. They have just been ignored.

But they will not go away.

I've heard that the dems are surfacing videos from Trump's appearances on the Howard Stern show, where he is rating women, saying "look at that face, she's only a 5" and "I'd do her".  I'll see if I can find that.  But how will that work with the "GOP war on women" narrative that is guaranteed to come out?
I am not a Trump supporter and feel no need to provide any defense.  I do find several positions he holds problematic although I think each of those issues have had more hay made about them than they deserve with respect to what it appears Trump's position actually is - bottom line is nobody in consideration is an ideal candidate, frankly none of them are even good candidates for a variety of reasons both political as well as personal.

WRT to national polling, it may or may not be accurate - the big unpredictable element is how a candidate Trump would campaign against Hillary (or Bernie), I believe scorched earth doesn't even begin to describe the withering assault I would expect a candidate Trump to unleash - if anyone can move the needle on Hillary (or Bernie) it is Trump, since the establishment has demonstrated again and again they are unwilling/incapable of actually taking it to the opposition - this belief I have by the way is one of the fundamental reasons that people who actively support Trump do so, in their own words - he takes no shit - we the people are tired of being shit on again and again by both parties and Trump is capitalizing on that (almost like he knows what he is doing).

WRT to shenanigans, the reason Trump folks call it out when others do it and not when he does is based on expectations I think more than anything - it is expected from Trump and is considered out of character for the Pols, that is also why they are so bad at it IMO.  He gets benefit of the doubt for his behavior in the same way Cruz is excused by his supoprters, and Rubio is excused by his supporters - there is zero difference there, it is pure human nature to support 'your guy'

WRT war on women trope, my belief is that like every other thing that was supposed to torpedo Trump's campaign, it is based on conventional beliefs, conventional experience and conventional assumptions which are inapplicable for Trump because unlike the other candidates (with notable exception of Dr. Carson) he is not a creation of the establishment or of the political media therefore neither can truly destroy him.  The bullshit identity politics victim card is overplayed and anyone trying to continue using it will be seen as, you guessed it a loser, a yuuuuuuge loooooser.

Trump is riding a populist groundswell that has not, in my opinion, even come close to its zenith - and the continued 'attacks' against him from the esablishment, the media and the Democrats will all only serve to continue to expand his support from the vast middle ground.  The consultant class has been telling both parties for decades that they can only win if they secure the middle, and that only they (the consultants) can help them - Trump is nuking that and that may be one of the best results of his involvement in this campaign season, but only if future candidates are taking notes.

'Gimp

2282
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 29, 2016, 09:22:17 AM »
Now, since our buddy Lucifer insists that people answer for every stupid thing folks who support Cruz do (ie Glenn Beck), where's the same demand for Dear Leader to answer for David Duke who has endorsed Trump?


Hell, Dear Leader isn't even asked to answer for those whom he supports, like the convicted stock-swindler that he hired as a senior advisor.
This may come as a surprise to you Jeff but in America once someone has paid their debt to society, for a crime committed nearly 2 decades ago and 10 years prior to being involved in any business or campaign dealings with Trump for example, that person can go on their merry way and people might even seek them out for advice as they work to overcome their past mistakes.  That is how our justice system is supposed to work.

Or does having a criminal act in one's past invalidate a person form every doing anything possibly good or constructive in your mind?  If so that might make it essentially impossible for you to vote, or trust anyone to do basically anything.  Or could it be, that once again, your hard-on for Trump prevents you from seeing rationally?

As I have said, there are rational and fact based reasons to support or oppose Trump, like almost any other candidate - but the one-trick pony repetitive namecalling, dumb-ass cartoons and posting of left-media dredged-up 2 decades old misdeeds of someone tangentially related to a campaign is truly low grade weak shit.  Others at least try to make it about actual policy issues, or questions of specific beliefs Trump may or may not hold.

By all means though, please continue your jihad.  Just like the establishment and the lamestream media you just don't get it, you don't understand why the guy is gaining ground with every attack made, and in the end it just makes you look immature, petty and small-minded.  Like Rubio and Cruz's latest schoolyard level shenanigans, pure childishness.

With Justice Scalia's untimely passing, I will grudgingly pull the handle for whoever takes the R nom this year since even a slight move left in the makeup of SCOTUS will essentially end the American experiment.  I am confident that any of the remaining candidates, Trump included, will make the right decision on SCOTUS with help from the rest of the party and the Conservative movement at large - if there is not a Republican in the White House you can count on McConnell and the Republican Senate folding like a cheap lawn chair.

'Gimp

2283
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 26, 2016, 10:39:58 PM »
The melting pot you credit as an asset to our country is exactly what Trump and his followers seem to want to greatly restrict.
So wrong as to not be in the same universe.  Immigration does not equal illegal immigration, not the same.

Show one single direct quote from Trump (or any of the folks here who people seem to think support him) that is blanket against legal immigration, I quadruple dog dare you. 

All sovereign nations control immigration to one extent or another - to include legally picking who can and cannot immigrate - without a border a nation is not sovereign.  This can include religious, ethnic or political grounds, and has, not only for America but for many other nations (like Mexico, or Cuba or Japan - basically all of them).  Many do so with fences and walls (e.g., Vatican City).

Many if not most of us are immigrants - my mom's family has been here since the 1700's but my Dad's family didn't come over until the early 1900's.  Came in accordance with the laws in place at the time - processed in through Ellis Island direct from Poland.

Trump is married to an immigrant (Slovenia), his previous wife was an immigrant (Czech) - look past the 2 second soundbites and do some actual research and think for yourself.

'Gimp

2284
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 25, 2016, 09:10:15 PM »
How?

Because you're holding out your views and selections to be the only correct ones, and different ones to be from those of lesser intelligence, or less rational, or whatever.

I don't get it either. I know some rather bright, perceptive and compassionate people who have signed on with Trump. I just did not expect that.

2285
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 24, 2016, 03:26:22 PM »
I think they are spot on. Trump does not have family values, or religious values, or traditional values. He has Trump values and they are whatever he sees fit. Like he said himself, he could shoot somebody and his supporters wouldn't care. They would just assume that person had it coming. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

Trump supporters are so drunk with this false idea that he is some sort of outsider maverick that is going to come to Washington, kick ass, yell "You're fired!!", shout down liberals, those in congress and clean house. They really hope they are somehow electing King Donald the 1st that will right this ship short order. So whatever he did, does or says is irrelevant. Sadly, they are delusional and it seems nothing can stop this train wreck in the making.
If this is what you actually think then you hold a pretty poor view of a large and growing number of the population. 

This is why Trump does well and people are left scratching their heads (Bush, Christie, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, the establishment, etc.) - they, and you, are assigning/projecting onto the electorate in a haphazard, ill informed and ultimately petty way, underestimating the reasons why people support him, and worse, debasing people who do as stupid, angry, hate-filled, racist, homophobic anti-immigrant blind followers, etc.

This is the same language used to describe people who listen to Rush Limbaugh, by people on the left who completely don't understand his listeners.  It's the same derisive, dismissive and insulting look-down-your-snoot that we on the right have had to deal with from the left for decades, and now we are using the same tactics in describing people arguably on our side of the fence or those who would join us, for choosing to support the 'wrong' guy - it is truly disappointing.

There are rational and fact-based reason to support or oppose Trump as a candidate, the fact so many folks resort to name-calling not just towards Trump but the people who support him, and the hyperventilating about what those people believe he may or may not do is juvenile.  The fact people who apparently consider themselves intelligent and erudite fall for the very sound-bite attack dog misrepresentation or fabrications about the guy they say are why they can't support him only show they have largely not done any real research themselves, really pot and kettle stuff IMO.

'Gimp

2286
Spin Zone / Re: NV/SC
« on: February 22, 2016, 07:08:55 PM »
What's your argument going to be when the President does nominate someone and the Senate either doesn't hold hearings and a vote or begins voting down every nominee the President sends?

The Senate has that constitutional right.  Checks & Balances sometimes work as designed.

2287
Spin Zone / Re: NV/SC
« on: February 22, 2016, 10:07:28 AM »
I really like that idea.  Cruz would be a much better Justice than President (IMNSHO).

And unless everyone else drops out soon, Trump will be the GOP candidate and Hillary will be President (unless she gets indicted, but I don't see that happening).
Don't accept the hype - Hillary is no more likeable than Trump and if you think Trump has been hard on his GOP competition I predict we haven't seen anything yet if he gets to the General.

I also predict that Trump more than any Republican candidate in 30 years has the 'opportunity' to pull votes from the other side precisely for the very reason some die-hard conservatives don't like him - he is not a doctrinally pure conservative - but the dirty little secret is that nobody who has run since Reagan has been a doctrinally pure conservative, the difference is in the marketing and that's where Trump is at his best.

Republican turnout in the primaries has been epic, in both closed and open primaries, the people are moving and if we have to take a non-doctrinally pure outsider to put a stake through the heart of the RINO establishment that's a price I am willing to pay, especially if it clears the decks for better non-establishment/non-scion candidates in the future.

I wonder though if we won't have Dem-Bush levels of Trump Derangment Syndrome but within our own side (I am no longer a registered Republican, they spat in my face one too many times, that ship sailed a couple years ago).

'Gimp

2288
Spin Zone / Re: Who knows what was in my head?
« on: February 21, 2016, 01:22:36 PM »
Gimp, I respect your posts, but I think you're off base here. Jeff is seeing what many conservatives are seeing or believing about what I see is a Trojan horse candidate in Donald Trump.

Except for his strong immigration stance, I see and hear every one of his current positions, including the Second Amendment, to be in direct contradiction to positions that he had previously taken, including those taken fairly recently. Take any topic - the Gulf War, assault weapons, waiting periods, pro-choice, abortions, late-term abortions, Obamacare, the individual mandate, taxation, governmental spending - he is currently one standard rate 1 minute turn from where he used to be.

Worse, he is holding some positions that are simply NOT conservative positions.  See eminent domain.

I am as passionate about this as anyone, and make no excuses for it. I don't think Jeff should either.

So to point these things out is not out of line in this debate in this election year. Nor is it out of line for Pilot Spin.
The idea of Trump, or anyone really, being able to pull off a 'trojan horse' candidacy, in the modern day, is laughable in my opinion - tinfoil hat kind of stuff.

It honestly bugs me that I end up coming off as an apologist for Trump, not because I don't respect him since I do, quite a bit after following his career/public life since the Art of the Deal, but moreso because it strikes me odd that some people seem to think he needs 'protection' or explanation.  I don't say he is a Conservative, never have.  I acknowledge that he has has held and in some cases still holds positions that are not party-line, I know he has donated to Democrat as well as Republican candidates over the years.  But the sum total of his history is far more conservative than liberal, IMO, but absolutely more Republican than Democrat.

With respect to his speaking off the top of his head, I personally find it so refreshing that I give him a fair amount of latitude but definitely understand it puts some folks off.  After so many years of fake people with fake stories and so on I prefer what I perceive as a more direct honesty even if it means holding and having to explain non-party-line positions - this is why I found the outsiders attractive this go 'round - Jindal, Carson, Fiorina and Trump.

The attitude displayed in Jeff's posts and in the mainstream media and from the establishment completely miss why most folks who I do know who are supporting Trump are doing so - dismissing them as unintelligent hate-filled racist rubes - basically the same view that Democrats have of the non-Democrat majority in the nation.  I find it distasteful that we are using the same techniques and tactics we decry from the Left in describing/attacking our own.

I get people find Trump threatening on a number of levels, I know some folks don't trust him - and there are reasons for people to not support, even oppose him as a candidate for the Republican nomination - but there are still 4 other men running FOR the nomination - where is the energy to convince people to support one or more of them?  There are still two crusty old socialists running for the Democrat nomination, where is the energy pointing out the dangers of their positions, etc.?

'Gimp

2289
Spin Zone / Re: Who knows what was in my head?
« on: February 21, 2016, 11:55:53 AM »
So, lacking the ability to defend his positions, the Trumpkins continue to say to his critics "SHUT UP!"
And again, I am still not a Trump supporter, I am just tired of your endless bullshit hard-on obsession and your total inability to deal with his current success in the primaries.

I don't want you to shutup because you criticize him, I just wish you'd spend even 10% of the energy on something else, anything else, underwater basket weaving, your love for Klingon opera, your budding Bromance with the Bernster, why Hillary should never be President, don't really care - just ANYTHING else. 

There is a reason that the terms One Trick Pony and One Hit Wonder are pejoratives - it gets old.

Simple fact of the matter is that Trump has garnered a substantial amount of support, across a wide audience and for a wide array of reasons and like it or not that is what it takes to win elections. 

But there's only been 3 primaries so far, never mind Trump has more delegates than everyone else put together so far, he only has 3-4% of the total delegates needed, and Marco and Cruz are not going to drop out although Kasich and Carson soon should and I predict will (although Carson may go all the way if he can keep enough donations coming in to at least pretend to compete - and for good reason I am not ascribing any deviousness to him).

You may not agree with that support but to dismiss, deride and demean it in the ways you continue to do only shows you have no idea why he is actually so popular, but you are in good company in that it is a problem you share with essentially all of the mainstream media, the the Republican and Democrat establishments, basically everyone on K street, and all of his current opponents.

It's just tiresome Jeff, literally has cut down on the visits I make here because between your incessant harping and Jaybird's jihad this place really isn't as fun.

'Gimp

2290
Spin Zone / Re: Hillary's way out
« on: February 18, 2016, 05:38:04 PM »

I don't know if her ego will allow her.  She is obsessed with power, and becoming President even if it means doing Soros's, Saudi, China's, etc bidding.
Actually, I agree with lucifer in this case. The coughing gigs are just ... odd. Health is the #1 most graceful reason to step out and retain the belief that you would have won.

2291
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 18, 2016, 05:02:06 PM »
#RealDonaldTrump when asked about JeffDG's hard-on for him....

2292
Spin Zone / Re: NBC/WSJ National Poll: Cruz 28, Trump 26
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:43:09 PM »
National polls mean jack shit during the primaries.

2293
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:53:02 AM »
An hour and a half video?  Um, no.

I'm about half-way through, and so far it's quite enlightening.

I am not opposed to some form of amnesty, nor a long path to citizenship - people are an asset, not a liability.

But Cruz's squirming to try to explain away previous pro-amnesty statements and actions is pathetic. I'd respect him more if he owned his prior positions and explained how his views have changed over time and why.

It's clear he's just morphing into whatever position he thinks will get him elected.

And before you say, "They all do that...", maybe study up on logical fallacies and tell us which one you'd be committing.

2294
Spin Zone / Re: Question for the Trumpkins?
« on: February 16, 2016, 04:06:06 PM »
Oh, it's even better than that. Apparently Code Pink is a big fan, as is Michael Moore.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/15/trump-scores-crucial-code-pink-endorsement/

Let's see. Bush is responsible for 9/11. Bush LIED about WMD and lead us to war on a known lie.

Is he running for the Democratic nomination, or is he just willing to adopt the most far left talking points and destroy the rest of the field by threats of lawsuits and retribution and lies and distortions to secure the nomination via the most despicable scorched earth destruction of the Republican Party?

EDIT:  Oh, that's right. I forgot.

IMMIGRATION!!!!!

So all tactics are acceptable.
Rush had a great show today about why Trump may be doing/saying some of what he is doing/saying and it has to do with the open primary in SC - some interesting points raised and a couple excellent calls that would put to rest a lot of the 'controversy' in this thread in particular.

Trump is definitely not playing by the normal rules and it really confuses/consternates a lot of folks - right, wrong or indifferent he has changed the narrative and if he dropped out tomorrow that would be the lasting impact of his involvement this cycle.  I hope he does not drop out, do not expect him to drop out because the elitist ruling class need a collective punch in the gut and kick to the teeth regardless of which side of the aisle they reside on.

'Gimp

2295
Spin Zone / Re: Hookers for Hillary
« on: February 16, 2016, 08:58:19 AM »
Who says they aren't eager for Hillary's business as well?

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