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Messages - azure

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1
Spin Zone / Re: Covidiocy Continued
« on: January 25, 2021, 03:09:57 PM »
Quote from: Rush on January 23, 2021, 08:08:44 PM
Asymptomatic transmission is very rare. Otherwise how did New Zealand eliminate covid? They aggressively isolated anyone with symptoms and it vanished from the island. They’ve done that more than once after new cases are brought over. If asymtomatic transmission was really an issue they wouldn’t have been able to do that. The news totally squashes this fact.

From what I've read, they aggressively isolated pretty much everyone, not just anyone with symptoms. They instituted an aggressive lockdown of the entire country until cases had dropped to undetectable levels. They also mandated isolation for anyone entering the country, though I think that was eventually relaxed somewhat for people coming from countries that had successfully eliminated the virus.

I'm not sure what measures they have in place currently; all of my sources were written last (northern hemisphere) summer.

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Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:49:41 PM »
Quote from: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2021, 06:34:05 PM
Two points:
(1) Federal law generally trumps state law. So locally enacted gun laws cannot violate the federal constitution. So says the US Supreme Court.
(2) State constitutions can and do grant rights not enumerated in the Federal constitution. Gun rights exist in 44 state constitutions. Many do not contain any of clauses that confuse gun control advocates. E.g in SD it states “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.” One summary of all states: https://gun-control.procon.org/state-constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-2/

I think we agree on both points. For (1), I'm pretty sure DC v. Heller is the relevant ruling. And to my understanding, Heller does not forbid local jurisdictions from enacting restrictions on gun sales and licensing requirements, e.g. for a license to carry in public. It doesn't require universal constitutional carry such as we have in VT.

I do think that banning an entire class of weapons, e.g. "assault rifles", will be very problematic under Heller, especially since they are used by many people for legitimate purposes such as target practice.

3
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:35:17 PM »
Quote from: Anthony on January 07, 2021, 06:23:26 PM
It's not location, it is the people.  Jail the abusers of gun laws and other laws with no plea deals.  Problem solved.  Don't restrict the rights of the law abiding.  Yes one size does not fit all.

Yes, it's the people. And in an ideal world, in which the police had unlimited resources, I'd agree with you. As a practical matter, dealing with people who abuse the right to bear arms in a crowded city like Detroit would be an even worse nightmare for police without those laws. I see the laws as a tool in the toolbox for law enforcement to use to get bad people off the streets.

The best argument one could use against that is that it doesn't work, because the guns are mostly in the hands of people who don't respect the law anyway, and the law abiding are disarmed. That's a valid point, but I do think the decision should be left to the local level.

4
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:22:48 PM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 06:19:06 PM
Exactly the reply I expected from you.  ::)

 I'd fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you came unarmed.   ;)

And that's exactly the reply I expected from you... a vacuous ad hominem. Another reason I rarely come around here.

5
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:21:28 PM »
BTW, just to be clear, I'm not a doctrinaire supporter of the 2nd Amendment - I do support the right of local jurisdictions to enact laws limiting the right to bear arms. I'm against such legislation on the federal level because it would then override the rights of local jurisdictions to retain or enact constitutional carry. I agree that no right is absolute, and there are places where firearms should not be allowed. But there are also jurisdictions where constitutional carry has been very successful - for example, my state of Vermont has one of the lowest per capita rates of violence involving guns of any state in the country. The efforts of urban transplants to enact strong gun-control legislation notwithstanding, there is no "gun problem" to be solved here, no reason to limit the right to bear arms.

The situation is different in places like, e.g., Detroit. There is no one size fits all solution here.

6
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:13:22 PM »
Quote from: Kristin on January 07, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
I support the Second Amendment, but likely have a different view of its limitations than you do.  Trump and his fervent supporters make clear that assault rifles are more likely to destroy the democracy than save it.  Besides, if the military was the culture you say they do, then they will take care of any threats to democracy so the citizenry won't need to.

Not sure I follow your logic here. What role did assault rifles play in yesterday's assault on democracy, other than as theater props?

7
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:10:14 PM »
Quote from: President Elect EppyGA on January 07, 2021, 06:03:55 PM
We can assume you are looking forward to free flow of illegal immigrants once again?

You'd assume wrong. Where would you even get such an idea?

8
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 06:08:03 PM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 02:47:24 PM
So should articles of impeachment be drafted and sent to the senate on the afternoon of January 20th?   After all, the evidence is very damning and easily rises to High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

The evidence of everything you allege is HIGHLY controversial. The evidence against the current President is not, except in the minds of conspiracy theorists.

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Should we demand a congressional hearing into his rape of Tara Reid?  Shouldn't all women be believed?

You blast me for lack of facts, but here you don't even have the right person. It's Tara READE, not Tara Reid (an actress) who has made that allegation. Since so far there is no corroboration, and since Ms. Reade's credibility is seriously damaged by other false statements she has made, I don't think a congressional hearing is even close to being appropriate for now. If other women come forward with similar allegations, that will change things, but we're not anywhere near that point.

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Should a Special Prosecutor be appointed to look into his and his families shady business dealings?  His taxes?

Not based on the evidence that's available now. So far, everything that has been used to support allegations of corruption has been debunked, as far as I'm aware.

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Should we get leaked copies of all his documents and leaked copies of his phone calls with foreign leaders?

Now you're getting ridiculous.

And no, the claim that Biden pressured for the removal of Viktor Shokin to shut down an investigation that would expose Hunter Biden's shady business dealings doesn't pass close inspection either. But you're apparently deep into the conspiracy theory mindset, so it's useless trying to argue that point with you.

9
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 05:56:22 PM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
No I won't, you once again refuse to look at facts.  The "pre-construction" process means the money has already been allocated and the permits being pulled and material delivered.  So add back in the original numbers and it is a substantial undertaking.

 The new administration would have to get legislation passed to try to recover the money, and the contracts have cancellation clauses that must be paid.   Little to no chance of that happening.

And Congress is now effectively controlled by Democrats, so getting such legislation passed is well within the realm of possibility.

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Because you lack the facts.  No problem.

So do you... see below.

10
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 02:20:06 PM »
Quote from: Little Joe on January 07, 2021, 12:43:21 PM
I for one am glad to have her back and hope she stays.

Thanks!

TBH, after classes start again on Monday I will probably be scarce again. During the academic year I'm only active on one or two sites - mostly TPP. I've dropped off of PoA too for the most part, too much censorship.

11
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 02:18:14 PM »
Quote from: Anthony on January 07, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
You said at the Pilot 's Place that you didn't like this website nor its participants.   I'm paraphrasing of course, but why are you back?  What changed?

It's the holiday break and I thought I'd check in again. Thanks for the warm welcome.

12
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 02:15:56 PM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
So, should Joe Biden be held to the same standards Trump was held to?   Should he face the same scrutiny?

Yes.

13
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 02:14:58 PM »
Quote from: Lucifer on January 07, 2021, 11:03:47 AM
341 new miles completed

That's the only total that really counts. "Under construction" miles may or may not be completed under the new administration. "Pre-construction process"? Gimme a break.

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The United States Has Brought the Leader of ISIS to Justice

Absolutely, this is one success I give Trump credit for. The killing of Soleimani is another.

I'm not going to do a point by point with you on this. We can both cut and paste lists of putative successes and failures. I'm mostly concerned with Trump's foreign policy ineptitude, so I'll point you to the article below, which I think gives a good - and fair - summary of where Trump stands as a head of state on the world stage. I'll add his ordering an air strike on Iran and then withdrawing it at the last minute, giving concern about collateral damage as the reason, since it's something he should have known BEFORE ordering the strike, and the way he handled it projects an image of weakness and vacillation.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/

On the domestic front, his botching of his border detention policy, losing track of the families of large numbers of children, has to go down as a colossal failure and a P/R nightmare of the first order.

No, Trump was not a total failure, but as @bflynn said, he had few unqualified successes, and NONE of that makes up for his post-election behavior. Nixon was a far more capable President (imo) in the foreign policy department, and he was (rightly) forced out of office when his involvement in covering up the Watergate break-in became clear. Trump deserves the same fate after yesterday.

14
Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 09:06:16 AM »
Quote from: Mr Pou on January 07, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
On the surface I agree with some of what you say. But on the flip side, I reserve judgement until (if ever) it is known WHO exactly showed up at this rally. Once the word was out, it was quite easy for disruptors to arrive in the crowd, to incite what could have been a peaceful rally and/or to try and alter perception of the rally.

Was calling the rally the brightest move? No. Was Trump the reason for the violence? It can't be determined.

I don't think I implied that Trump was THE reason for the violence. I said that he bears a large fraction of the responsibility. Of course, the largest share of that responsibility belongs with the criminals who participated in the uprising. But I don't care whether some of the protestors were infiltrators, much of what was caught on video strongly suggests that many of the participants, if not the vast majority, were actual Trump supporters, including far-right militia groups. I have seen no evidence that the insurrection was a false-flag operation, and I think it's grasping at straws to insist that it may have been.

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Spin Zone / Re: January 6
« on: January 07, 2021, 08:58:14 AM »
Quote from: bflynn on January 07, 2021, 08:47:24 AM
Trump's actions for the past 4 years have shown an appalling lack of judgement and leadership.  Even things that he was "good" at, thing he gets credit for like the wall are a qualified success.  It's a fraction of what it could have been if he had been level minded.

There's not a single place I'd say he was an unqualified success.  Even in foreign policy, he did well in the Middle East, but our allies hate him.

Not sure I would call the wall even a qualified success. ;) After all, very little of it has been built, and Mexico has not paid for what has.

Yes, he has shown poor judgment and leadership for his entire term. I've said that before, even here i think. I can point to MANY examples of actions of his that have either embarrassed this country or outright weakened it. My point was that yesterday raises all of that to a whole new level. It also raises the question of whether he should be removed from office NOW. I don't know if there is a practical way to do that at this point, but I am glad to hear that the idea is being discussed at high levels (reports of Executive Branch officials discussing invoking the 25A).

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