PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on February 26, 2023, 06:17:28 PM
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Didn't want to muck up the other thread.
A nationals divorce brings up a lot of questions in my mind. I already mentioned a couple in the other thread.
I'll repost those here, y'all can add your questions or answer them also.
How do you build a military from scratch and fund it?
What would the new Government look like?
What would stop the U.S.A. from declaring war against the new Government?
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Didn't want to muck up the other thread.
A nationals divorce brings up a lot of questions in my mind. I already mentioned a couple in the other thread.
I'll repost those here, y'all can add your questions or answer them also.
How do you build a military from scratch and fund it?
Many of the free states already have a National Guard and Air National Guard, plus bases including all the hardware. So the basis of a military is already there.
What would the new Government look like?
Like the original intent of the constitution. Fedgov would be limited, with the majority going to the states.
What would stop the U.S.A. from declaring war against the new Government?
Well, considering they can't figure out which bathroom to use, or what a woman is, I wouldn't be too worried. Plus, the wealth is contained in the free states, while the blue shitholes can't produce anything and are underwater in massive debt.
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What states do you think would divorce?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP
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All fifty states have a three branch government in place.
Going alone would be painful for a while for well managed states and total circle jerk for the rest.
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I'm for no Fedgov. Bring back the Articles of Confederation. This is not negotiable.
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What states do you think would divorce?
Personally, I don't think any would, although there may be a sizable number of rebels in many states.
Rather than secession, I would guess it would be more of a civil war, but not like the last one with one geographical area (North) against the other (South). It will be neighbors and neighborhoods against each other.
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Personally, I don't think any would, although there may be a sizable number of rebels in many states.
Rather than secession, I would guess it would be more of a civil war, but not like the last one with one geographical area (North) against the other (South). It will be neighbors and neighborhoods against each other.
Editing my own reply, just in case anyone has already read it:
Such a civil war between neighbors and neighborhoods could indeed be fought with handguns, shotguns and rifles. Tanks and fighter aircraft wouldn't be necessary. Yes, FedGov would still have those weapons, but who would they use them on? How much collateral damage would they cause? They would be killing their own supporters.
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brings to mind this:
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Editing my own reply, just in case anyone has already read it:
Such a civil war between neighbors and neighborhoods could indeed be fought with handguns, shotguns and rifles. Tanks and fighter aircraft wouldn't be necessary. Yes, FedGov would still have those weapons, but who would they use them on? How much collateral damage would they cause? They would be killing their own supporters.
Government on every level including Law Enforcement, Military etc would go after Rebel citizens without hesitation. The government would give them no alternative but arrest and possibly execution.
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Government on every level including Law Enforcement, Military etc would go after Rebel citizens without hesitation. The government would give them no alternative but arrest and possibly execution.
They’re already doing it. The J6 “rebels”.
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https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonexaminer.com%2Fnews%2Fwashington-secrets%2Fmarjorie-taylor-greene-nailed-it-support-across-the-board-for-national-divorce
She has been mocked by elites for suggesting that politically divided liberals and conservatives stop faking it and get a “national divorce,” but pollsters who have studied the controversy agree that there is widespread support for Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s proposition of a red-state-blue-state breakup.
“It’s across the board,” said Jeremy Zogby, pollster and managing partner at Zogby Strategies, which has studied the issue for years. “It's staggering to the extent it cuts across all demographics,” he told Secrets.
Other pollsters, notably the left-right team that has conducted the Battleground Poll, have also found the nation leaning toward civil war for years. In that survey, more see the potential for civil war.
“When asked to rate the level of political division in the country on a scale from 0 to 100 where 0 is no division and 100 is division on the edge of a civil war, respondents led to a mean score of 71,” said the last version of the survey.
Critics of Greene’s political “divorce” have portrayed her continued explanation of the plan as “loony,” but Zogby and his father, pollster John Zogby, said that the idea has been around for years and is gaining steam not just in the United States but overseas.
On their weekly podcast, John Zogby said that Greene’s plan, which would encourage red and blue states to break up while keeping a smaller national government, has helped to kick up the debate.
“Marjorie Taylor Green, three words that I really never thought that I'd be discussing about anything, let alone on this podcast, sent out a tweet that's had an enormous response and ripple effect in which she calls for a national divorce,” he said.
He noted that he and Jeremy Zogby have polled on the issue for years and that there is “nothing in our polling that would contradict” her view of the division in the country.
In a National Divorce, our Department of Defense would defend America’s borders not be on the verge of WWIII with Russia and China because our overly powerful federal warlords serve Ukraine first. https://t.co/CM0R6RP8As
— Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸 (@RepMTG) February 22, 2023
Jeremy Zogby provided Secrets data from recent polling showing substantial support from Democrats, Republicans, all ages, and parts of the country for a potential divide.
In July 2020 data, for example, when asked if “states seceding from the Union” is legal or illegal, 39% said illegal, 36% said legal, and the rest were unsure. Among Democrats, 43% said legal, to 32% illegal. Of Republicans, 46% said illegal, to 36% legal.
In a second question asked in December 2021, the parties were split when asked if the nation’s partisans could make up. He said that 47% said that they “will overcome the current political and cultural divide and form a national unity again.” But 29% said it is time “to engage in something like a national divorce,” and “significantly” 24% were unsure.
“When tracking these numbers over time, it becomes clear a sizable portion of the American public keeps a plan B in case all else fails. While half of the public in the latter poll believe we’ll overcome the increasing partisan warfare -- nearly one-third, cutting across major demographics, believe that the train may have left the station,” said Jeremy Zogby.
Four in 10 New Yorkers want out of tax-sucking 'Vampire State'
“New Yorkers,” said @zogbystrategies analyst Jeremy Zogby, are looking “elsewhere as the ‘Empire State’ is increasingly viewed as ‘the Imperial State,’ or even the ‘Vampire State.'”https://t.co/klUEV8UGjD pic.twitter.com/2MeknamwI1
— Paul Bedard (@SecretsBedard) March 14, 2022
A student of world history, he said that the trend has already taken root in the U.S., with Californians moving to Texas and New Yorkers to Florida.
“This is not new,” said John Zogby.
And current issues stirring in the nation may prompt greater debate, they said. Jeremy Zogby, for example, cited the rail disaster in East Palestine, Ohio, and the political fallout that has dogged the Biden administration and anger at him for seeming to ignore the crisis in favor of giving attention and billions of dollars to Ukraine.
The chemical spill and poor response may be the “tipping point,” said Jeremy Zogby. “I don't think it's going to go away, that sentiment. I mean, our polling data has continuously shown that there's a sizable portion of the public that would be in favor of” a Greene-style divorce.
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What states do you think would divorce?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP
States broadly, but probably more intrastate: Eastern Washington v. Seattle, Chicago V. the rest of the state.
Eastern Oregon has already voted to start making the move to join Idaho.
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States broadly, but probably more intrastate: Eastern Washington v. Seattle, Chicago V. the rest of the state.
Eastern Oregon has already voted to start making the move to join Idaho.
The suburbs are now solid blue Commie/Fascist, big Government/Corporate/MEDIA/Education sell outs, the rest of the states are Red, but the Metro areas have the majority of the populace.
Cutting out the cancer is a good analogy. How do we break away from it?
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I love MTG bringing up this idea. She’s right.
From a practical perspective I don’t know how it could happen, but it gets the conversation going.
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/03/business-leader-kevin-oleary-blue-states-are-becoming-uninvestable-video/
Kevin O’Leary is an internationally recognized leader and pundit in business and investing. In a few recent media appearances, he has claimed that blue states like Massachusetts, New York, California and others have become uninvestable.
What he means by that is that it is pointless to start a company in these states because they punish success through excessive taxes and punitive regulations. He called out AOC and Elizabeth Warren by name.
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Look at the grimace on the CNN anchors faces - you can actually tell when their sphincters tighten.
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The entire Northeast and West Coast is also becoming uninvestable.
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The entire Northeast and West Coast is also becoming uninvestable.
The blue counties and states are becoming useless parasites. They’re going to double down on the entitlement mentality and demand that productive people support them. They’ve started this with demands for “reparations”, student loan bale outs, cries to “tax the rich” and so on. Direct federal funding is next.
They’re far too stupid to recognize that prosperity comes from a free market with minimal government interference. If they succeed in forcing the red areas to support them, the entire country will go down the drain. The producers will either be strangled out of existence or we really will have a civil war.
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The blue counties and states are becoming useless parasites. They’re going to double down on the entitlement mentality and demand that productive people support them. They’ve started this with demands for “reparations”, student loan bale outs, cries to “tax the rich” and so on. Direct federal funding is next.
They’re far too stupid to recognize that prosperity comes from a free market with minimal government interference. If they succeed in forcing the red areas to support them, the entire country will go down the drain. The producers will either be strangled out of existence or we really will have a civil war.
The people making demands are the ones that never have worked a living.
They have always lived off of those of us that paid out bills and taxes, served our country, raised our own kids and paid their college tuition,
These people are nothing and never will be.
Their legacy will be laziness, selfishness, racism, hatred and violence.
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Atlanta is going to shit worse than it was. Antifa is down here now. They tried to burn down a jail ysterday
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The people making demands are the ones that never have worked a living.
They have always lived off of those of us that paid out bills and taxes, served our country, raised our own kids and paid their college tuition,
These people are nothing and never will be.
Their legacy will be laziness, selfishness, racism, hatred and violence.
I count among those all the social justice warriors with political science degrees and “jobs” in activist organizations who don’t produce one bit of anything anyone wants. I have more respect for drug pushers in the hood. At least they’re providing a product that’s actually in demand by the free market, and risking jail or death in the process. The baby mamas that kicked them out preferring government welfare money? I have no respect for them at all.
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Atlanta is going to shit worse than it was. Antifa is down here now. They tried to burn down a jail ysterday
They will be charged with domestic terrorism for sure. Our Attorney General told us so.
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They will be charged with domestic terrorism for sure. Our Attorney General told us so.
Let me get this straight. The authorities finally admit that the violent extreme left Antifa are domestic terrorists? Along with parents who attend school board meetings, radical Catholics, and grandmothers who took selfies on the Capitol grounds on J6?
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Let me get this straight. The authorities finally admit that the violent extreme left Antifa are domestic terrorists? Along with parents who attend school board meetings, radical Catholics, and grandmothers who took selfies on the Capitol grounds on J6?
was he being sarcastic?
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Let me get this straight. The authorities finally admit that the violent extreme left Antifa are domestic terrorists? Along with parents who attend school board meetings, radical Catholics, and grandmothers who took selfies on the Capitol grounds on J6?
You left out anyone (anyone at all) with the last name Trump.
Just having the last name is a domestic terrorist now, from our moronic, retard attorney general.
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And anyone who LEGALLY owns guns.
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You left out anyone (anyone at all) with the last name Trump.
Just having the last name is a domestic terrorist now, from our moronic, retard attorney general.
And all registered Republicans unless they have knelt and paid homage to the Uniparty and disavowed Trump.
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was he being sarcastic?
I don’t know. Is my sarcasm detector on the fritz?
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I don’t know. Is my sarcasm detector on the fritz?
I suspect so, but perhaps I'm not up on the latest. I would be quite surprise if the AG said there were be any prosecution of the "mostly peaceful" protesters.
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I don’t know. Is my sarcasm detector on the fritz?
Yes, you may need to get that module fixed. ;)
There is no green font in Tapatalk.
Maybe I should just use TINGFIT in the future.
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I suspect so, but perhaps I'm not up on the latest. I would be quite surprise if the AG said there were be any prosecution of the "mostly peaceful" protesters.
My reference was to last week’s grilling of Garland by Sens. Kennedy, Hawley, Cruz, and others. He claimed that the DOJ would prosecutes people who bomb pro-life crisis pregnancy centers as much as they do of people praying in front of Planned Parenthood, but those darned sneaky crisis pregnancy bombers are doing their bombing at night and in secret, so they are much harder to catch than the pro life prayer givers are doing so in the light of day with video cameras everywhere.
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Yes, you may need to get that module fixed. ;)
There is no green font in Tapatalk.
Maybe I should just use TINGFIT in the future.
I almost asked what TINGFIT stands for but I figured it out. ;D
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Yes, you may need to get that module fixed. ;)
There is no green font in Tapatalk.
Maybe I should just use TINGFIT in the future.
When the Aliens (not Mexicans, extra terrestrial Aliens) rebuilt me they enhanced that module. Rush, I can give you their contact info....
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/wayne-root-whether-you-like-it-or-not-the-national-divorce-of-america-is-happening-here-is-the-proof/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/wayne-root-whether-you-like-it-or-not-the-national-divorce-of-america-is-happening-here-is-the-proof/)
Call it a “National Divorce.” Call it a “trial separation.” Call it a “Great American Relocation.” Call it whatever you want. But we have to make plans to get away from these insane, radical, extreme, communist SUICIDE BOMBERS.
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I almost asked what TINGFIT stands for but I figured it out. ;D
I came back here and unfigured it. But I just woke up. Let me see what happens when this coffee kicks in.
DUH! There is no green font in tap a talk. Facepalm. It took 3 mugs of coffee. Geez I’m getting demented.
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/wayne-root-whether-you-like-it-or-not-the-national-divorce-of-america-is-happening-here-is-the-proof/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/wayne-root-whether-you-like-it-or-not-the-national-divorce-of-america-is-happening-here-is-the-proof/)
He’s not wrong but the problem is as he says: red states are booming and blue states are dying. This means the blue states MUST hang on to the red states as parasites. They will declare martial law and kill every Republican if they have to to prevent a true divorce. Some are openly calling for this.
Also it’s not possible to withhold your money from woke corporations. It has infected most of them. The majority of our food is controlled by just a dozen or so parent corporations. Most of our stuff is made in China, a literal communist country that our ruling oligarchy must keep happy. Our money value is controlled by the feds. What bank are you going to keep it in where 1) it’s value is immune from federal idiocy and 2) they won’t just directly freeze it if they decide you’re a “domestic terrorist” which apparently now Protestant schoolchildren are because the trans community is so oppressed by them it’s justified to go kill them, if you believe the tweets coming from the White House.
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(https://i.imgur.com/KWireU7.png)
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He’s not wrong but the problem is as he says: red states are booming and blue states are dying. This means the blue states MUST hang on to the red states as parasites.
However, the blue cities/states don't see it that way. They look at the red counties/states as the parasites mooching off the tax dollars from their worthless but high paying jobs, while the reality is that the manufacturing, the food, the resources are in the red areas.
California may have water rights, but when push comes to shove, it's always better to be upstream.
Also it’s not possible to withhold your money from woke corporations. It has infected most of them.
Yeah it's getting really hard to avoid woke corporations, but as Matt Walsh said, we can put AB out of business, and then move on to the next one.
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However, the blue cities/states don't see it that way. They look at the red counties/states as the parasites mooching off the tax dollars from their worthless but high paying jobs, while the reality is that the manufacturing, the food, the resources are in the red areas.
California may have water rights, but when push comes to shove, it's always better to be upstream.
Yeah it's getting really hard to avoid woke corporations, but as Matt Walsh said, we can put AB out of business, and then move on to the next one.
Matt Walsh is wise beyond his years. I like this crop of young conservatives.
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Matt Walsh is wise beyond his years. I like this crop of young conservatives.
They’re too conservative in some ways. But it’s a backlash against the way more extreme and completely insane lengths to which the left has gone.
We are headed straight for an authoritarian tyranny. Probably of the leftist variety but possibly a right wing counter revolution. I don’t want either but historically the left variety kills more people than the right so that’s the side I’d have to fall on if forced to choose, but I don’t approve of either.
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They’re too conservative in some ways. But it’s a backlash against the way more extreme and completely insane lengths to which the left has gone.
We are headed straight for an authoritarian tyranny. Probably of the leftist variety but possibly a right wing counter revolution. I don’t want either but historically the left variety kills more people than the right so that’s the side I’d have to fall on if forced to choose, but I don’t approve of either.
I’m curious what type of authoritarian tyranny is being suggested by these conservatives. I know Matt Walsh has spearheaded laws that prohibit child mutilation, but this never had to be done until the trans terrorists started going after the children.
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I’m curious what type of authoritarian tyranny is being suggested by these conservatives. I know Matt Walsh has spearheaded laws that prohibit child mutilation, but this never had to be done until the trans terrorists started going after the children.
Like the push for a nationwide ban on the abortion drug when the entire argument of the right over RvW was that it is a state issue. However that isn’t an “authoritarian tyranny” in totality, just one small example of a conservative wanting to enable centralized (federal) control over something that was never mentioned in the Constitution and hence should remain the purview of states.
What I’m referring to isn’t embodied in an individual yet but could be if the left pushes things too far. Let’s say by some miracle a Republican wins in 2024 or 2028, and the entire U.S. erupts in leftist rioting way beyond what they did in 2020, maybe they set off a suitcase nuke, or sabotage the entire electric grid or something. This on top of an economy reeling from years of Bidenomics and the right correctly deduces the country can only be saved if we declare martial law, and suspend elections for enough years to rebuild our oil reserves, get control of inflation, crack down on the riots, prosecute the criminals, and restore social order.
I’d be all for that. Except whoever set that in motion would NEVER reverse it. We’d have a permanent right wing dictatorship. We might love it for the temporary peace and prosperity it would bring but soon enough it would become just as corrupt and malevolent as any other.
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Like the push for a nationwide ban on the abortion drug when the entire argument of the right over RvW was that it is a state issue. However that isn’t an “authoritarian tyranny” in totality, just one small example of a conservative wanting to enable centralized (federal) control over something that was never mentioned in the Constitution and hence should remain the purview of states.
That goes under "own goal" scoring. And sadly not an isolated case. Biden for the win in 2024 even without cheating. :'(
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That goes under "own goal" scoring. And sadly not an isolated case. Biden for the win in 2024 even without cheating. :'(
Yep.
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They’re too conservative in some ways. But it’s a backlash against the way more extreme and completely insane lengths to which the left has gone.
We are headed straight for an authoritarian tyranny. Probably of the leftist variety but possibly a right wing counter revolution. I don’t want either but historically the left variety kills more people than the right so that’s the side I’d have to fall on if forced to choose, but I don’t approve of either.
It's impossible to be too conservative. Tyranny from the left, tyranny from the right; they may be called different things, but to the person with a boot on their neck, it's the same thing. There really is no left or right, but rather an up or down: control by one or total government control (tyranny) to no control and no government (anarchy). That is how the founders saw it, equally dangerous, so they sought a balanced center or people's law, and that is what true conservatism is about.
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It's impossible to be too conservative. Tyranny from the left, tyranny from the right; they may be called different things, but to the person with a boot on their neck, it's the same thing. There really is no left or right, but rather an up or down: control by one or total government control (tyranny) to no control and no government (anarchy). That is how the founders saw it, equally dangerous, so they sought a balanced center or people's law, and that is what true conservatism is about.
Well obviously. I well remember Ronaldus Magnus’s speech where he said that it’s not a matter of left or right but rather up into liberty or down into tyranny.
But we are having a problem defining conservatism. The go-to definition for me, if overly simplistic, is conservatives are for economic freedom but social/personal controls and liberals are the reverse. By that definition you can indeed be too conservative if you try to exert excessive control over personal behavior such as making it illegal to smoke pot in your own home.
By “up into liberty” Reagan wasn’t talking about anarchy, but maximum freedoms under a Constitutional framework. That’s what you probably call the balanced center or “true conservatism”. I call that “classical liberalism”. But if you want to define “conservatism” as “preserving the traditional system” then that works and we are in agreement.
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I don't know where I saw it, but the left / right spectrum is not a line but a circle. Eventually the far left and the far right bend around to become the same thing.
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I don't know where I saw it, but the left / right spectrum is not a line but a circle. Eventually the far left and the far right bend around to become the same thing.
Correct, and elwood blues is right that it doesn’t matter the color of the boot on your neck. All authoritarian systems whether right or left eventually devolve into totalitarianism which defined is controlling both the economic sphere as well as the personal/social. They have to. People cannot be allowed economic freedom because then you can’t control them. They can’t be allowed personal freedom for much the same reason. Humans by nature reject subservience and do not voluntarily tolerate a too restrictive government for very long, even if they think they want it at first, because they want to see the “other side” defeated. So it becomes necessary to forcibly keep them down. And of course, the politicians who rise to the top, either right or left, tend to be Machiavellian- it’s how they got there- and surround themselves with others whose primary personality characteristic is a love of controlling everyone else’s life.
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Go far enough to the left and you end up on the right.
The reverse is also true. Look at the self righteous obsession the communist democrats have with imposing their religion on the rest of us.
replace communist liberal with fundamental muslim and the resemblance is startling.
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Go far enough to the left and you end up on the right.
The reverse is also true. Look at the self righteous obsession the communist democrats have with imposing their religion on the rest of us.
replace communist liberal with fundamental muslim and the resemblance is startling.
I would say Man Made Climate Change is the Left's "Religion". They use it to justify almost everything and as a means to control, subjugate and impoverish the rest of us. The issue they are clueless about, along with many others, is that they, the Useful Idiots, will ALSO become the cannon fodder by which the Elite further consolidate their power and wealth.
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Young folks today can't handle freedom and thus do not want it.
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Young folks today can't handle freedom and thus do not want it.
I try really hard to find counter examples. There are some young folks that rise to the top, do the hard work, and excel despite the school training systems and social pressures. But for the most part the younger you go, the more they want to be controlled. It's easier when they don't have to think. Social media tells them what to think, what to do, what to believe, what to rebel against. Any independent thought is immediately wiped from their brains. Maybe it's because I'm old. When I was young the most overt control my parents had was to come home when the street lights turn on and don't play on the runway. But by encouragement and being outstanding role models I turned into the wonderful thing I am today. But these youngsters are bubble wrapped from the beginning, being driven to and from various activities that they may or may not want to attend. I had a bike, I got there myself. Just walk it across busy streets. Today's youth are used to massive overcontrol. It's just natural that they shift the control from what parents they have to the government.
Does every generation think this of the next one?
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I would say Man Made Climate Change is the Left's "Religion". They use it to justify almost everything and as a means to control, subjugate and impoverish the rest of us. The issue they are clueless about, along with many others, is that they, the Useful Idiots, will ALSO become the cannon fodder by which the Elite further consolidate their power and wealth.
Yes it is, that and the other “woke” causes have replaced religion. Religion is a basic human inclination. We have an instinctive need to have something in which to put faith which by definition is a belief not proved by observable reality. It’s a model we construct in our minds to explain the otherwise inexplicable. That doesn’t mean the model is false, just that it requires “faith” to accept it.
When society loses religion (faith in a higher power), it must construct other models to meet that need, models that are equally unprovable, or in some cases are completely false, such as the idea that gender is not binary. A cult forms around these ideas and spreads just like any religion.
Climate change, especially the belief that catastrophe is right around the corner, is another such replacement for religious faith. It is identical to the Christian fundamentalists who insist the rapture is imminent. Both believe humanity is so evil that it needs to be wiped out and that’s going to happen pretty soon, and we will have deserved it.
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Well obviously. I well remember Ronaldus Magnus’s speech where he said that it’s not a matter of left or right but rather up into liberty or down into tyranny.
But we are having a problem defining conservatism. The go-to definition for me, if overly simplistic, is conservatives are for economic freedom but social/personal controls and liberals are the reverse. By that definition you can indeed be too conservative if you try to exert excessive control over personal behavior such as making it illegal to smoke pot in your own home.
By “up into liberty” Reagan wasn’t talking about anarchy, but maximum freedoms under a Constitutional framework. That’s what you probably call the balanced center or “true conservatism”. I call that “classical liberalism”. But if you want to define “conservatism” as “preserving the traditional system” then that works and we are in agreement.
Yes, the up/down came from Reagan's speech. I didn't make up the balanced center either. That came from The Making of America: The Substance and Meaning of the Constitution, W. Cleon Skousen, 1985
From the book:
Historically, the Founders knew they were pioneering new territory. In the past, ninety-nine percent of the human race had to live out their lives under Ruler's Law, with all power in the ruler.
They would not have understood our modern mismeasurement which puts communism at the extreme “left” and fascism at the extreme “right” – as though they were opposites. In reality they are simply different names for similar forms of despotism – the police state. They both belong together on the side of the spectrum representing despotic government.
They said at one extreme we have “too much government” and at the other “too little government.” They despised tyranny but considered anarchy even worse. They felt the greatest challenge to civilized man is discovering some method of structuring a government, under control of the people, which would eliminate both mobocracy and tyranny.
The founders were optimistic as well as realistic about human nature. They realized that all human beings are a mixture of sunshine and shadow. The sunshine consists of the perfectibility of human reason. This makes government and civilization possible. The darker side of human nature is the imperfectibility of human passion and man's faulty sense of judgment that makes government necessary. As James Madison stated: “As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust, so there are other qualities in human nature which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence.”
The Founders' goal was to revive the ancient principles which would allow the sunshine side of human nature to enjoy virtually unlimited freedom, while setting up appropriate safeguards to prevent the doleful shadow of human passion, greed, and lust for power from spreading a permanent “dark ages” across the face of the globe.
As Clinton Rossiter wrote, there is ”no happiness without liberty, no liberty without self-government, no self-government without constitutionalism, no constitutionalism without morality – and none of these great goods without stability and order.”
Jefferson and several of the other Founders had discovered that the most substantive principles of representative government were those practiced by ancient Israel under the leadership of Moses. Jefferson had also studied the institutes of government of the Anglo-Saxons and had found they were almost identical to those of the Israelites.
That basic pattern is where our form of government came from – people's rule or the balanced center.
I recommend reading The Making of America and The 5,000 year Leap, also by Skousen.
He also wrote The Naked Communist and The Naked Capitalist, which are also good reads.
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Yes, the up/down came from Reagan's speech. I didn't make up the balanced center either. That came from The Making of America: The Substance and Meaning of the Constitution, W. Cleon Skousen, 1985
From the book:
Historically, the Founders knew they were pioneering new territory. In the past, ninety-nine percent of the human race had to live out their lives under Ruler's Law, with all power in the ruler.
They would not have understood our modern mismeasurement which puts communism at the extreme “left” and fascism at the extreme “right” – as though they were opposites. In reality they are simply different names for similar forms of despotism – the police state. They both belong together on the side of the spectrum representing despotic government.
They said at one extreme we have “too much government” and at the other “too little government.” They despised tyranny but considered anarchy even worse. They felt the greatest challenge to civilized man is discovering some method of structuring a government, under control of the people, which would eliminate both mobocracy and tyranny.
The founders were optimistic as well as realistic about human nature. They realized that all human beings are a mixture of sunshine and shadow. The sunshine consists of the perfectibility of human reason. This makes government and civilization possible. The darker side of human nature is the imperfectibility of human passion and man's faulty sense of judgment that makes government necessary. As James Madison stated: “As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust, so there are other qualities in human nature which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence.”
The Founders' goal was to revive the ancient principles which would allow the sunshine side of human nature to enjoy virtually unlimited freedom, while setting up appropriate safeguards to prevent the doleful shadow of human passion, greed, and lust for power from spreading a permanent “dark ages” across the face of the globe.
As Clinton Rossiter wrote, there is ”no happiness without liberty, no liberty without self-government, no self-government without constitutionalism, no constitutionalism without morality – and none of these great goods without stability and order.”
Jefferson and several of the other Founders had discovered that the most substantive principles of representative government were those practiced by ancient Israel under the leadership of Moses. Jefferson had also studied the institutes of government of the Anglo-Saxons and had found they were almost identical to those of the Israelites.
That basic pattern is where our form of government came from – people's rule or the balanced center.
I recommend reading The Making of America and The 5,000 year Leap, also by Skousen.
He also wrote The Naked Communist and The Naked Capitalist, which are also good reads.
Nobility and depravity, the twin pillars on which our government stands. Depravity seems to have an axe at the base of the nobility pillar right now, and I’m seeing wood chips.
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Nobility and depravity, the twin pillars on which our government stands. Depravity seems to have an axe at the base of the nobility pillar right now, and I’m seeing wood chips.
Yes and I think it has something to do with this. It’s obvious where we are in that cycle right now.
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Late to the party, but let's say it does become a shooting war between liberal and conservatives. Not states, but rather regions. It seems that most liberals tend to congregate in large cities where conservatives are spread out. As such, the target for eliminating liberals is much smaller; easier to take out a bunch at one time.
Add to that, I would guess most of the rank and file military folks are conservative as well and would turn on their woke generals. So the big weapons would be in control of the conservative side. The liberals? Not so much.
In reality, I doubt such a scenario would happen. It would take a hell of a lot of covert organization to plan such an action. But one can dream.
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Late to the party, but let's say it does become a shooting war between liberal and conservatives. Not states, but rather regions. It seems that most liberals tend to congregate in large cities where conservatives are spread out. As such, the target for eliminating liberals is much smaller; easier to take out a bunch at one time.
Add to that, I would guess most of the rank and file military folks are conservative as well and would turn on their woke generals. So the big weapons would be in control of the conservative side. The liberals? Not so much.
In reality, I doubt such a scenario would happen. It would take a hell of a lot of covert organization to plan such an action. But one can dream.
That’s what I keep saying. We don’t need to split by state, we need to kick a few large cities out of the country. That’s where most of the trouble is. Welcome by the way.
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Late to the party, but let's say it does become a shooting war between liberal and conservatives. Not states, but rather regions. It seems that most liberals tend to congregate in large cities where conservatives are spread out. As such, the target for eliminating liberals is much smaller; easier to take out a bunch at one time.
Add to that, I would guess most of the rank and file military folks are conservative as well and would turn on their woke generals. So the big weapons would be in control of the conservative side. The liberals? Not so much.
In reality, I doubt such a scenario would happen. It would take a hell of a lot of covert organization to plan such an action. But one can dream.
Welcome. I’m still gobsmacked by the realization that I’m living in a time when conversations like this one really are happening. It’s so awful that my brain doesn’t want to accept it. Yet there is a certain eagerness, survival instinct probably, to get on with and suffer the battles required to remove the toxic rot that has destroyed my country. Waiting around isn’t going to do it.
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Welcome by the way.
Welcome.
Thanks for the welcome.
I was here before as NippleBoy and had a few posts, but I was accidentally banned after the great hack of 2019. I chatted with one of the mods (can't remember which one anymore) to find out what happened, and they agreed that the ban was accidental, but for whatever reason, it could not get undone and suggested I just continue with a different username. Unfortunately, any ID I used on my computer was banned as well. Or at the very least I could not login from my computer regardless of which ID I used. As such, I waited until I got a new computer before attempting it again.
So, all that being said, thanks again for the welcome. And I hope I don't get banned again!!!
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The only bans that have ever happened here are spammers.
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The only bans that have ever happened here are spammers.
Actually, I think you were the one I was chatting with.
I promise I won't spam you!!!
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Actually, I think you were the one I was chatting with.
I promise I won't spam you!!!
Wasn't me.
Welcome to the board.
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Thanks for the welcome.
I was here before as NippleBoy and had a few posts, but I was accidentally banned after the great hack of 2019. I chatted with one of the mods (can't remember which one anymore) to find out what happened, and they agreed that the ban was accidental, but for whatever reason, it could not get undone and suggested I just continue with a different username. Unfortunately, any ID I used on my computer was banned as well. Or at the very least I could not login from my computer regardless of which ID I used. As such, I waited until I got a new computer before attempting it again.
So, all that being said, thanks again for the welcome. And I hope I don't get banned again!!!
Sounds like your machine’s MAC address was being banned, not the IP. I didn’t know that’s how it worked and it kind of creeps me out that the system is collecting MAC addresses.
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Wasn't me.
Welcome to the board.
Oops!! You're right. My apologies. It was Anthony.
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Sounds like your machine’s MAC address was being banned, not the IP. I didn’t know that’s how it worked and it kind of creeps me out that the system is collecting MAC addresses.
I had never heard/seen such a thing either. I tried using a company computer to log in with my original ID and that computer was banned as well.
No worries though. I have no intention of trying it again and waiting another 7 years or so before I get a new computer.
I'll return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Oops!! You're right. My apologies. It was Anthony.
Really? Don't remember that. I fall on my head too much so forget stuff.
Welcome back!
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Really? Don't remember that. I fall on my head too much so forget stuff.
Welcome back!
August 2019 was a long time ago. (Found a private message notification from when we chatted, but it didn't have the user name.)
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Sounds like your machine’s MAC address was being banned, not the IP. I didn’t know that’s how it worked and it kind of creeps me out that the system is collecting MAC addresses.
Ethernet MAC addresses do not propagate over the Internet Protocol. Once an Ethernet frame reaches a modem and has to transmit the Ethernet payload over something other than Ethernet, such as a cable, DSL, or other connection that uses some other link-layer protocol the Ethernet header, which includes the source and destination MAC addresses, is discarded since those aren't part of the payload delivered to the next link layer.
Without knowing what kind of error The Loan Arranger was seeing it isn't possible to even attempt to determine the real cause of his issues. But I know enough about network protocols to rule out bans based on MAC addresses - at least at the web server end.
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August 2019 was a long time ago. (Found a private message notification from when we chatted, but it didn't have the user name.)
2019 was a whole universe ago. A whole nother dimension.