PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 03, 2020, 05:23:15 AM
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Now "experts" are starting to publically worry that people won't take the covid-19 vaccine when one becomes available. They are warning that the pandemic will be with us forever if people don't get vaccinated.
Why do I get the feeling that the power-hungry pukes will use this to implement forced-vaccinations?
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I never implement version 1.0 of anything. I might consider the vaccine once everyone in government has had a dose.
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Yea, but what about all those pharmaceutical companies with their government paid development money? I mean seriously, a captured market of billions to sell to?
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The MMR vaccine isn’t even mandatory despite measles and mumps outbreaks nationwide. He’ll, one was in my home town. But the docs are right about this one. If a majority of people don’t get vaccinated the virus will be with us for a long long time to come. I still have deep-seated concerns about the first round of vaccines and won’t do the Oxford one under any circumstances.
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So, you want people to take vaccines, but you reserve the right to refuse to take a vaccine yourself.
POS speaks with forked tongue.
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The MMR vaccine isn’t even mandatory despite measles and mumps outbreaks nationwide. He’ll, one was in my home town. But the docs are right about this one. If a majority of people don’t get vaccinated the virus will be with us for a long long time to come. I still have deep-seated concerns about the first round of vaccines and won’t do the Oxford one under any circumstances.
It will only be with us for a long time to come if we continue this stupid social distancing. Otherwise we’d all get natural immunity or die as nature intended.
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So, you want people to take vaccines, but you reserve the right to refuse to take a vaccine yourself.
POS speaks with forked tongue.
There are quite a few vaccines currently under development. The mRNA vaccines have never before been used, but if they prove safe in clinical trials I would take one. However, I will under no circumstances take the Oxford vaccine. There are also subunit vaccines and more traditional ones under development that I would happily take. My reservations about the mRNA vaccines simply come from their novelty. My reservation about the Oxford vaccine come from the fact that I’m pretty certain it’s going to kill some people, and I’d rather not be one of them.
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There are quite a few vaccines currently under development. The mRNA vaccines have never before been used, but if they prove safe in clinical trials I would take one. However, I will under no circumstances take the Oxford vaccine. There are also subunit vaccines and more traditional ones under development that I would happily take. My reservations about the mRNA vaccines simply come from their novelty. My reservation about the Oxford vaccine come from the fact that I’m pretty certain it’s going to kill some people, and I’d rather not be one of them.
Interesting. What’s the mechanism about the Oxford one that will do that?
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Interesting. What’s the mechanism about the Oxford one that will do that?
I mean neither to be pedantic nor long-winded. It can be very difficult to distill the nuances of biotechnology into layman’s terms. I will endeavor to do so.
Legacy vaccines are either killed or weakened viruses that can prime the immune system without causing disease. Most of the vaccines you’ve encountered fit into this paradigm.
About a decade ago a new type of vaccine came on the market from Merck. Human Pappilomavirus (HPV) was difficult to culture, so a part of the virus, one of its coat proteins, was cloned, expressed in yeast, purified and used as a vaccine. This was the first subunit vaccine, and has been wildly successful.
Some of the vaccines in Phase 3 trials are so-called mRNA vaccines. Like the HPV vaccine they rely on the expression of a coat protein of the virus. However, these vaccines trick your cells into producing the viral protein to prime the immune system. They deliver an mRNA.
The instructions to make your are encoded in your DNA. When it comes time for the DNA to direct production of a protein (which is one of the main things your DNA does) an mRNA is produced. The mRNA is taken to the site of protein production and directs assembly of the protein.
The mRNA vaccines deliver an artificial mRNA into cells that encodes a viral protein. The idea is the cell makes the viral protein and secretes it. Once in the bloodstream the immune system can react to it and you get your immunity.
It really isn’t as simple as that, since mRNAs are delicate things that are both easily destroyed and unable to enter cells. The mRNAs themselves have been strengthened and packaged into bodies that can penetrate cell membranes. They’ve been working on this a LONG time, but might have at last achieved success. If this works you’re going to see a host of therapeutics based on the concept.
The Oxford vaccine is similar in that it tricks cells to make viral proteins. However, the Oxford vaccine uses a virus to do the delivery. Called Adeno Associated Virus (AAV) it is a gene therapy delivery vector. AAV can persist in cells for a long time, so it can deliver needed proteins stably. And there’s the rub.
I don’t know how long the mRNA’s from mRNA vaccines will persist in cells, I don’t think those data are even available, given that they’re proprietary. I’m willing to bet money not that long, just long enough to make some protein. I suspect the mRNA vaccines are just good enough based on the infancy of the technology.
AAV sticks around, that’s why it works for gene therapy. So you have a cell making a viral proteins for a long time, probably after serum IgM and IgG levels have peaked. Meaning that you have an active immune response against a protein actively being made by cells in the body. The immune system is likely to mistake the cells making that protein as a foreign invader at that point, and react against them. That’s autoimmunity, a Pandora’s box I don’t want to see opened. Moreover, it will take long enough to develop that it could be missed by Phase 3 trials.
I’m by no means an expert virologist, nor will I lay claim to immunological expertise. But the last time I had misgivings about a new therapeutic people died. I hope I’m wrong about this one, in the meantime I won’t be taking it.
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AAV sticks around, that’s why it works for gene therapy. So you have a cell making a viral proteins for a long time, probably after serum IgM and IgG levels have peaked. Meaning that you have an active immune response against a protein actively being made by cells in the body. The immune system is likely to mistake the cells making that protein as a foreign invader at that point, and react against them. That’s autoimmunity, a Pandora’s box I don’t want to see opened. Moreover, it will take long enough to develop that it could be missed by Phase 3 trials.
WOW!!! Thanks for taking the trouble to type all that out. Makes total sense to me and I agree with you 1000%. I have enough problems with autoimmunity. My immune system doesn’t need more encouragement to be over enthusiastic. Sheesh.
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It will only be with us for a long time to come if we continue this stupid social distancing. Otherwise we’d all get natural immunity or die as nature intended.
I believe that’s true. I went to a wedding this afternoon and reception this evening. 400 people were invited and 200 people showed up. Except for the servers and bartenders, there were 2/200 masktards there. For the first time in a long time, life went back to normal.
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I believe that’s true. I went to a wedding this afternoon and reception this evening. 400 people were invited and 200 people showed up. Except for the servers and bartenders, there were 2/200 masktards there. For the first time in a long time, life went back to normal.
Unless someone was infectious. In that case people could die. I wouldn't subject people I care about to that kind risk to celebrate my nuptials.
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Unless someone was infectious. In that case people could die. I wouldn't subject people I care about to that kind risk to celebrate my nuptials.
You have a greater chance of dying riding your motorbike or driving your car, and even flying your airplane. Are you cutting that activity out as well?
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You have a greater chance of dying riding your motorbike or driving your car, and even flying your airplane. Are you cutting that activity out as well?
My risk on my bike and in my aircraft are controlled. You might stand a greater risk of dying riding your motorcycle or flying your airplane, but I do not.
Going to a large gathering I can't control where the other participants have been. I can't control where the air is flowing and can't accurately gauge it either, so if there are viral-laden aerosols I can't avoid them. Personally, I honestly think having a giant wedding right now is the height of irresponsibility. That said, it is a free country and people are entitled to be irresponsible.
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Unless someone was infectious. In that case people could die. I wouldn't subject people I care about to that kind risk to celebrate my nuptials.
For how long? Years? Lives will end with people not living life, people not embracing their loved ones in nursing homes, people not playing with their grand kids, lives destroyed because of the economic disaster of closing restaurants and other personal service businesses due to a virus with a 98% recovery rate.
We may all eventually get this. 60 million Americans were infected with H1N1 and FedGov or the states didn’t do anything to prevent it, aside from Biden creating panic. I’ve read that it was pure luck that it’s lethality wasn’t worse.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992
We all entered this sphere with a terminal case of life. I chose not to live each day hiding like a rodent.
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My risk on my bike and in my aircraft are controlled. You might stand a greater risk of dying riding your motorcycle or flying your airplane, but I do not.
Going to a large gathering I can't control where the other participants have been. I can't control where the air is flowing and can't accurately gauge it either, so if there are viral-laden aerosols I can't avoid them. Personally, I honestly think having a giant wedding right now is the height of irresponsibility. That said, it is a free country and people are entitled to be irresponsible.
And here's the deal. It can be considered irresponsible riding your bike or flying your airplane as well. But statistics do prove out you have a far greater risk of dying either flying or bike riding than from Covid19.
The fall storms are coming, and your chance of dying from a lightning strike are greater than dying from Covid19.
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The media and democrats have convinced people covid is a very high risk issue. It is NOT.
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You have a greater chance of dying riding your motorbike or driving your car, and even flying your airplane. Are you cutting that activity out as well?
you obviously don't know that POS is the world's greatest biker and pilot.
::)
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My risk on my bike and in my aircraft are controlled.
Didn’t you have at least one accident on landing? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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Didn’t you have at least one accident on landing? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Prop strike
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My risk on my bike and in my aircraft are controlled. You might stand a greater risk of dying riding your motorcycle or flying your airplane, but I do not.
Hard for you to control all the idiots on the road when you are on your motorcycle. You can only anticipate so much of what the other drivers are going to do.
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you obviously don't know that POS is the world's greatest biker and pilot.
::)
Depends on how you define "greatest". To me the greatest bikers are the ones who've ridden the longest without accident or incident. I've ridden bikes since the mid 80's. I've ridden in three countries and on just about every surface on which one can ride a motorcycle. I've ridden everything from a Goldwing to a Supersport. Had one low speed get off on the Wing on a rainy night, and that's it. That would make me a "great" rider.
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Depends on how you define "greatest". To me the greatest bikers are the ones who've ridden the longest without accident or incident. I've ridden bikes since the mid 80's. I've ridden in three countries and on just about every surface on which one can ride a motorcycle. I've ridden everything from a Goldwing to a Supersport. Had one low speed get off on the Wing on a rainy night, and that's it. That would make me a "great" rider.
But still, motorcycles are dangerous and the government should be out protecting us from ourselves; shouldn't they?
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But still, motorcycles are dangerous and the government should be out protecting us from ourselves; shouldn't they?
Motorcycles aren't dangerous, cages are. If you ride enough bike that you can get away from the cages you're actually in fairly good stead if you ride responsibly. Speaking of riding responsibly, if you take alcohol out of the motorcycle accident statistics bikes become far safer than airplanes and lots of other things. Last I saw half of all motorcycle accidents involve some sort of recreational substance.
I admit I'm not Odin's gift to aviation and won't claim to be. I hedge my bets there by only flying on VFR days. I'll admit, the airplane could really get me. That said, take running into weather and running out of gas out of the aircraft accident statistics and it gets better. I don't push into bad wx ever, and I am conscientious to the point of paranoia about fuel. That and I fly a Mooney. If the chips come down down that hard all I have to do is bring the ship in under control. Unless I'm crashing into a cliff face like Wile E. Coyote my Mooney will take care of me.
The vast majority of my flights are also in Flatistan, where I won't run into a cliff face like Wile E. Coyote.
And to be honest, most of my 'rona avoidance is because of Mrs. Steingar. Bring the damn thing on, I think I'd rather get it over with. But if my spouse of 28 years gets it she could easily die, she has significant comorbidities. So no movies, no going out to dinner (just made yummy lox, don't have to), no parties, no nothing that isn't outside and doesn't involve more than a few people. I don't even like to go out shopping, too damn many people. And I don't fly anywhere I have to worry about being in proximity to anyone. That includes all the friends I like to visit, all the relatives I have nearby, just about everyone. And that's the way it will be until I'm vaccinated against this virus. And if the choice is to continue to do this or take the Oxford vaccine, I'll continue my hermitage.
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And to be honest, most of my 'rona avoidance is because of Mrs. Steingar. Bring the damn thing on, I think I'd rather get it over with. But if my spouse of 28 years gets it she could easily die, she has significant comorbidities. So no movies, no going out to dinner (just made yummy lox, don't have to), no parties, no nothing that isn't outside and doesn't involve more than a few people. I don't even like to go out shopping, too damn many people. And I don't fly anywhere I have to worry about being in proximity to anyone. That includes all the friends I like to visit, all the relatives I have nearby, just about everyone. And that's the way it will be until I'm vaccinated against this virus. And if the choice is to continue to do this or take the Oxford vaccine, I'll continue my hermitage.
And here it is in a nutshell. You agree risk is personal, and should be considered as such.
So does everyone else here. So why not let us, as individuals, make the determination of the risk we are willing to take, whether it be flying, driving, scuba diving, skydiving, etc and even how we want to deal with Covid19?
For those who want to mask up, do so. For those who want to avoid groups and socializing, go right ahead. But please don't force everyone else to go along with it. Personal choice, right?
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And here it is in a nutshell. You agree risk is personal, and should be considered as such.
So does everyone else here. So why not let us, as individuals, make the determination of the risk we are willing to take, whether it be flying, driving, scuba diving, skydiving, etc and even how we want to deal with Covid19?
For those who want to mask up, do so. For those who want to avoid groups and socializing, go right ahead. But please don't force everyone else to go along with it. Personal choice, right?
Your right to liberty ends where you can infect me with a deadly virus. What you still don't seem to understand is masks don't protect you, at least the ones you are most likely wearing. I suspect the mask Mrs. Steingar made me is somewhat protective, but I've no proof. Might just be emotional on my part.
Masks protect those around you. You wear them as a courtesy to those with whom you come into contact. If everyone masked up and maintained social distance the virus would have a really hard time of it.
Sure you do you and I'll do me, but that's because (thankfully) you live far away from me. A pity you'll potentially spread the virus to those around you, but there's naught I can do about it. I'm just thankful that those who live and work around me are more considerate of the others in their community.
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science...
"Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population"
"FFP2 masks provided adults with about 50 times as much protection as home made masks, and 25 times as much protection as surgical masks. "
"In a final experiment, retention of particles expelled inside the masks was studied. Here again, mask type was strongly correlated with (transformed) protection factors. Protection factors for all type of masks were considerably lower than those observed for inward protection. The home-made masks only provided marginal protection, while protection offered by a surgical mask and an FFP2 mask did not differ (figure 3)."
"A recent analysis of the 1918 epidemic, noted that cities where strict interventions were implemented early on to prevent transmission, were overall worse-off than cities where some degree of transmission occurred early on [16]. Given the need for the population to acquire sufficient natural immunity over time, it can not be excluded that the amount of protection conferred by home made masks might sufficiently reduce viral exposure to impact on transmission during the early waves, while allowing people enough exposure to start mounting an efficient immune response. Further field studies are needed to assess acceptability and effectiveness of masks worn by people from the general population. "
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Your right to liberty ends where you can infect me with a deadly virus. What you still don't seem to understand is masks don't protect you, at least the ones you are most likely wearing.
But you driving a car, or riding a motorbike, or flying your airplane can't harm innocents around you? Of course you can. So should we allow government to remove those risk to protect everyone else? Of course not.
What you don't seem to get is the sick and the ones that are weakened need to be careful and safeguard themselves. And that should be their individual choice, not governments.
Remember the liberal battle cry "My body! My choice!" ? Why is this not relevant in this discussion?
When you isolate the sick, the elderly and those who are compromised, it's called quarantine.
When you inflict needless orders against a healthy society it's called tyranny.
Masks protect those around you.
And by removing your right to drive we protect those who could be easily killed by your automobile, or your motorbike. Shouldn't we protect the innocent?
And how many GA crashes into houses have we seen? If we remove the right to fly, we protect those innocents on the ground. Don't they deserve protection?
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But you driving a car, or riding a motorbike, or flying your airplane can't harm innocents around you? Of course you can. So should we allow government to remove those risk to protect everyone else? Of course not.
What you don't seem to get is the sick and the ones that are weakened need to be careful and safeguard themselves. And that should be their individual choice, not governments.
Remember the liberal battle cry "My body! My choice!" ? Why is this not relevant in this discussion?
When you isolate the sick, the elderly and those who are compromised, it's called quarantine.
When you inflict needless orders against a healthy society it's called tyranny.
And by removing your right to drive we protect those who could be easily killed by your automobile, or your motorbike. Shouldn't we protect the innocent?
And how many GA crashes into houses have we seen? If we remove the right to fly, we protect those innocents on the ground. Don't they deserve protection?
This. All of it, and that's why Leftists (Marxists/Democrats) are huge hypocrites. Not for thee, but for me because they think they are superior, better, and smarter and for the greater good when the OPPOSITE is true. They are for Totalitarian Oppression with them as the rulers and elite. Total bullshit.
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But you driving a car, or riding a motorbike, or flying your airplane can't harm innocents around you? Of course you can. So should we allow government to remove those risk to protect everyone else? Of course not.
Reduction to absurdity. Kinda funny, since I don't drive daily anyway.
What you don't seem to get is the sick and the ones that are weakened need to be careful and safeguard themselves. And that should be their individual choice, not governments.
The problem is it isn't always obvious who's going to get slammed with this thing. But I can't have a choice to just shut myself in. Gotta work, gotta get groceries to stuff down my neck. Everybody wears masks, less likely I get sick doing it. I don't get sick, I don't make anyone else sick. Everyone happy.
Remember the liberal battle cry "My body! My choice!" ? Why is this not relevant in this discussion?
Again absurd. All anyone is asking you to do with your body is not transmit sickness.
When you isolate the sick, the elderly and those who are compromised, it's called quarantine.
Elderly need groceries to stuff down their elderly necks. If the guys supplying said groceries are sick because you were too important to wear a mask, elderly die.
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When you inflict needless orders against a healthy society it's called tyranny.
What is your big deal about masks? Really? Do you consider it tyranny that you have to wear trousers?
And by removing your right to drive we protect those who could be easily killed by your automobile, or your motorbike. Shouldn't we protect the innocent?.
Again, absurd. When I ride the scooter I'm far more likely to get hurt than hurt anyone. That said, lots of folks have to drive to get to work and buy said groceries with their salaries. Isn't optional. Funny thing is locked up in their cages they aren't going to transmit viruses to anyone.
And how many GA crashes into houses have we seen? If we remove the right to fly, we protect those innocents on the ground. Don't they deserve protection?
Actually, GA crashes that hurt folks on the ground are a trifle rare. In the meantime the 'rona has killed over 200,000 people and the year's not out. I don't think 200,000 people have died in GA plane crashes in the history of GA.
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Reduction to absurdity. Kinda funny, since I don't drive daily anyway.
The problem is it isn't always obvious who's going to get slammed with this thing. But I can't have a choice to just shut myself in. Gotta work, gotta get groceries to stuff down my neck. Everybody wears masks, less likely I get sick doing it. I don't get sick, I don't make anyone else sick. Everyone happy.
Again absurd. All anyone is asking you to do with your body is not transmit sickness.
Elderly need groceries to stuff down their elderly necks. If the guys supplying said groceries are sick because you were too important to wear a mask, elderly die.
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What is your big deal about masks? Really? Do you consider it tyranny that you have to wear trousers?
Again, absurd. When I ride the scooter I'm far more likely to get hurt than hurt anyone. That said, lots of folks have to drive to get to work and buy said groceries with their salaries. Isn't optional. Funny thing is locked up in their cages they aren't going to transmit viruses to anyone.
Actually, GA crashes that hurt folks on the ground are a trifle rare. In the meantime the 'rona has killed over 200,000 people and the year's not out. I don't think 200,000 people have died in GA plane crashes in the history of GA.
Let's cut to the chase here. You and your fellow travelers know what a scam this is. And it's one you and your fellow travelers have embraced, because you see the power it gives you.
Power is contagious, power is overwhelming. You now have in your arsenal a powerful tool that allows you (meaning you and the radical left) to control the actions of others, and bypass that pesky document called the constitution.
By admitting the obvious lie would weaken you, and take away a valuable asset, so you maintain it no matter what. Even making an inane argument to keep it, doesn't matter.
So in the perfesser's world, "My Body, My Choice!" is OK as long as it's killing innocent human beings, but when it comes to the government arbitrarily stripping rights from citizens using absolutely no science to back it up, we should just comply, well, because!
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Let's cut to the chase here. You and your fellow travelers know what a scam this is. And it's one you and your fellow travelers have embraced, because you see the power it gives you.
Power is contagious, power is overwhelming. You now have in your arsenal a powerful tool that allows you (meaning you and the radical left) to control the actions of others, and bypass that pesky document called the constitution.
By admitting the obvious lie would weaken you, and take away a valuable asset, so you maintain it no matter what. Even making an inane argument to keep it, doesn't matter.
So in the perfesser's world, "My Body, My Choice!" is OK as long as it's killing innocent human beings, but when it comes to the government arbitrarily stripping rights from citizens using absolutely no science to back it up, we should just comply, well, because!
So you really do think it tyranny that you’re required to wear pants? A mask is nothing more than another article of clothing. Seems like an awfully small thing to do get your knickers in a bunch.
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So you really do think it tyranny that you’re required to wear pants? A mask is nothing more than another article of clothing. Seems like an awfully small thing to do get your knickers in a bunch.
Again, you’re deflecting.
I can wear pants, slacks, shorts or a speedo, that’s my choice. But the government demanding I wear a useless face diaper to make a politician feel better?
In case you’ve missed it while snug in your little bubble, many Americans are suffering under the tyranny of radical politicians. Just today Bill DeBlasio has decreed he will lock down parts of his city and close “non essential” businesses, and schools. And while doing this, he will still allow protesters to riot. Even Gov Coumo jumped in and has now threatened to shut down churches and synagogues.
The government does not have the power to choose which business is essential, nor does it have the ability to null and void the first amendment.
The so called emergency order is not relying on science, it’s purely political.
This virus has an overall 99.99% survival rate.
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So you really do think it tyranny that you’re required to wear pants? A mask is nothing more than another article of clothing. Seems like an awfully small thing to do get your knickers in a bunch.
Here I thought the issue was more substantial, such as the outlawing the means of living for millions of people based on an unproven theory that it might save some lives. Limiting their movements. Stuff like that.
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mikey has used every lie in his arsenal trying to justify his ego, idiocy and Blind obedience to the communist horde.
Since that isn't working he will be along stringing together a bunch of blasphemy, bullshit, and babbling blitzkrieg of hate, any second.
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It’s like the Dem governors are nursing this thing along for as long as they can, and destroying lives and livelihoods seems to be part of the game they’re playing for personal power.
Masks are detrimental to human flourishing and are NOT simply “an article of clothing.” We take so many cues from faces, and express so much with our faces ... this masking CANNOT become “normal.” Every time I put on a mask, and they’re required by our Dem governor in every establishment here, I feel like I’m choking off my immune system’s natural function.
The CDC and WHO cannot even agree on a simple, justifiable narrative for what they “recommend.” Masks good, masks maybe good, masks symbolic. They have changed their decrees so often they’re like the mainstream media now ... no one trusts them.
The left has weaponized this thing and is drooling for a “transitional” President Biden, sliding into a Harris dystopia.
Hell of a mess.
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Becky nailed it. When our 9 month old granddaughter was here I realized her entire life has been with masks. The only people she sees without masks are her immediate family inside the house. And maybe the other babies at her daycare. The adults all wear masks. The first year of life you are learning facial expressions. What is this doing to her brain wiring for social relationships?
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Here I thought the issue was more substantial, such as the outlawing the means of living for millions of people based on an unproven theory that it might save some lives. Limiting their movements. Stuff like that.
My thoughts too. In fact, I thought it was so obvious that I read further before stating that to see if anyone else brought it up. Yeah, the masks are a pain, but I tolerable and I can understand their risk/reward. But the other aspect is as you said, the shutting down of businesses, bringing the nation and people's lives to a halt. At my age every day I sit at home feels like another waste of my life, something which is becoming in shorter and shorter supply every day.
I know that since I am older and heavier than I should I am at somewhat more risk, therefore even if the government didn't shut everything down, I would still be cautious of where I go and how I interact with other people. But some of the authoritarian actions are killing the very lives they purport to save.
My younger (55 yrs old) brother just told me that he received his final divorce papers. Both he and his wife were layed off and the bills kept coming. They were stuck at home and the tension and stress lead to more and more arguments of an escalating nature. They never came to blows but they were both afraid of each other and finally, she just moved back with her 80 yr old mother. Now he has been forced out of his house and sleeps in his car. If I weren't sending him sizable amounts of cash, he would be on the street or in a homeless shelter.
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My thoughts too. In fact, I thought it was so obvious that I read further before stating that to see if anyone else brought it up. Yeah, the masks are a pain, but I tolerable and I can understand their risk/reward. But the other aspect is as you said, the shutting down of businesses, bringing the nation and people's lives to a halt. At my age every day I sit at home feels like another waste of my life, something which is becoming in shorter and shorter supply every day.
I know that since I am older and heavier than I should I am at somewhat more risk, therefore even if the government didn't shut everything down, I would still be cautious of where I go and how I interact with other people. But some of the authoritarian actions are killing the very lives they purport to save.
My younger (55 yrs old) brother just told me that he received his final divorce papers. Both he and his wife were layed off and the bills kept coming. They were stuck at home and the tension and stress lead to more and more arguments of an escalating nature. They never came to blows but they were both afraid of each other and finally, she just moved back with her 80 yr old mother. Now he has been forced out of his house and sleeps in his car. If I weren't sending him sizable amounts of cash, he would be on the street or in a homeless shelter.
Hundreds of thousands maybe millions of stories like this. Yet this damage is not being catalogued and not compared to Covid deaths. Trump keeps alluding to it but gets blasted by the left and the media making it seem like he’s saying something evil. The heartless disregard for this collateral damage of the shutdown proponents is astounding.
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The radical progressives thrive on hate and power. They now own the Democrat Party and those who still blindly follow them.
"Wear your mask! Social distance! Close ALL non essential businesses! This is the new normal!"
"What's next?" Oh, next you ask?
Anything now can be claimed as a "National Emergency" and thus laws can be kicked aside and replaced with "Executive Orders".
If we get a Harris Administration, be prepared for a "Systemic Racism National Emergency" to be declared. Also be prepared for a "Climate Change National Emergency". Just think of all the new orders that we'll see and experience "for the good of everyone."
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The radical progressives thrive on hate and power. They now own the Democrat Party and those who still blindly follow them.
"Wear your mask! Social distance! Close ALL non essential businesses! This is the new normal!"
"What's next?" Oh, next you ask?
Anything now can be claimed as a "National Emergency" and thus laws can be kicked aside and replaced with "Executive Orders".
If we get a Harris Administration, be prepared for a "Systemic Racism National Emergency" to be declared. Also be prepared for a "Climate Change National Emergency". Just think of all the new orders that we'll see and experience "for the good of everyone.
Yes, Becky nailed it again. I don't know how to multi quote on this software. Anyway, I think you nailed what the Demcoart/Media Alliance wants for us. National Emergencies that demand strict control of the populace as the new normal. Soviet Union style edicts.
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This virus has an overall 99.99% survival rate.
The rate of hospitalization is somewhat north of that. The rate at which people are permanently or semi-permantly disabled by the virus is in the double digits, last time I checked. And we still really don't know all the stuff the virus does to the human body. Last week I read in Science that lots of COVID patients wind up with myocarditis that can persist for weeks after the infection abates. Doing nothing and letting the virus run rampant in our population is the height of irresponsibility. Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
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Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
We vote and we will re-elect Trump and other Republicans. We also have money and can support the politicians we like and organizations that donate. So yes we do affect public policy. We need to get herd immunity and the lock downs were sold to us as a two week "flatten the curve", temporary measure. Now you want to make them permanent solely for your Marxist style, big government control. NO FUCKING WAY.
This virus is a big nothing burger to those that aren't extremely old or have other health issues. Let those people voluntarily give up their rights, freedoms, liberties, and jobs.
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The rate of hospitalization is somewhat north of that. The rate at which people are permanently or semi-permantly disabled by the virus is in the double digits, last time I checked. And we still really don't know all the stuff the virus does to the human body. Last week I read in Science that lots of COVID patients wind up with myocarditis that can persist for weeks after the infection abates. Doing nothing and letting the virus run rampant in our population is the height of irresponsibility. Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
Thankfully you're nothing more than a quack academic and are kept away from anything pertaining to public policy. ;)
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Thankfully you're nothing more than a quack academic and are kept away from anything pertaining to public policy. ;)
I told you he would be along to spread his ignorance and hate, once his bloviating bullshit failed.
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The rate of hospitalization is somewhat north of that. The rate at which people are permanently or semi-permantly disabled by the virus is in the double digits, last time I checked. And we still really don't know all the stuff the virus does to the human body. Last week I read in Science that lots of COVID patients wind up with myocarditis that can persist for weeks after the infection abates. Doing nothing and letting the virus run rampant in our population is the height of irresponsibility. Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
source?
btw - for those that want actual data, today (6 Oct) during a press conference Gov Baker (during the Q&A portion) mentioned that many of the covid-19 cases hospitalized aren't there because of covid-19. He said that the number of cases hospitalized because of covid-19 has been hovering around 250 for quite some time.
Let's see, maskachusetts has about 11,000 active cases... divide by, carry the 2... less than 3% hospitalized because of covid-19.
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https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/10/06/do-masks-really-work-heres-what-the-charts-tell-us-n1009481
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In maskachusetts, we got past the surge in April before the mask mandate came down from gov Baker.
April was the peak in maskachusetts
6 May was when masks were required by gov baker.
who knew that wearing a mask would prevent the spread retroactively?
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The rate of hospitalization is somewhat north of that. The rate at which people are permanently or semi-permantly disabled by the virus is in the double digits, last time I checked. And we still really don't know all the stuff the virus does to the human body. Last week I read in Science that lots of COVID patients wind up with myocarditis that can persist for weeks after the infection abates. Doing nothing and letting the virus run rampant in our population is the height of irresponsibility. Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
I'm not old! I'm probably the youngest or close to youngest person on here.
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you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
Excuse me? I’m an embittered old woman.
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The rate of hospitalization is somewhat north of that. The rate at which people are permanently or semi-permantly disabled by the virus is in the double digits, last time I checked. And we still really don't know all the stuff the virus does to the human body. Last week I read in Science that lots of COVID patients wind up with myocarditis that can persist for weeks after the infection abates. Doing nothing and letting the virus run rampant in our population is the height of irresponsibility. Thankfully you're nothing more than a pack of embittered old men and have no impact on public policy.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201006/c207af005d48b682561ac5f7957d8660.jpg)