PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on October 28, 2015, 09:35:29 AM
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As he should have been
http://www.pressherald.com/2015/10/28/lawyer-teen-suffered-several-injuries-in-classroom-arrest/ (http://www.pressherald.com/2015/10/28/lawyer-teen-suffered-several-injuries-in-classroom-arrest/)
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I'm not going to take this guys side, but I would ask what actions do you believe should have been taken? The student was texting during class and asked to stop and give up her phone by the teacher. I suppose they could have shut the class down and called her parents and asked them to come take her out of school.
Brings up a question to me, should cell phones even be allowed in schools?
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I agree that a response was warranted, but now she's in an arm cast with neck and back injuries and a rugburn on her forehead from being dragged out. Another student who showed disapproval of the cops actions was also arrested...WTF? ??? His response was over the top for using a cellphone. He clearly failed the use of good judgment test on that one.
I recall once when I was in school where another student's entire desk got pushed out of the classroom. Nobody was hurt, only embarrassed.
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It was definately an over reaction,however the student was defying authority,of the school and the officer. The country is starting to fall into the Ferguson syndrome,disrespect authority,and play the race card,at every opportunity.
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Some kids respond to analysis, others to force. Also, do not underestimate the bizarre attachment young people have to their devices. Combined with a natural desire to resist authority, plus what all else is going on their heads, it means that sometimes you have to get their attention in a big way. Even delightfully compliant and pleasant moi had the cord applied to my behind in a very painful way at times. Agreed that discipline is failing mightily on many fronts right now. I say bring it back.
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Defying the rules, she broke her phone out in class. It happens. My kids have been caught doing that and suffered the consequences. But this girl didn't put it away, and when the teacher told her to leave she said no. The teacher summoned a member of administration who asked her to leave - she refused. The SRO was called and he asked her to leave - she refused.
I think the officer was rough in his handling of her, but I do not see where he did anything to warrant being fired. You simply can not have kids doing anything they want in school and defying authority.
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Defying the rules, she broke her phone out in class. It happens. My kids have been caught doing that and suffered the consequences. But this girl didn't put it away, and when the teacher told her to leave she said no. The teacher summoned a member of administration who asked her to leave - she refused. The SRO was called and he asked her to leave - she refused.
I think the officer was rough in his handling of her, but I do not see where he did anything to warrant being fired. You simply can not have kids doing anything they want in school and defying authority.
Agreed
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Brings up a question to me, should cell phones even be allowed in schools?
The high school my kids go to encourage it so that they have online access because there are no computers in those rooms. They push technology at every opportunity, knowing they're going that direction in colleges and the workforce.
The down side is that the phones are not to be out except during certain times. To me, that's talking out of both sides of your mouth, inviting trouble. Because there are certain times the phones are not to be out, and invariably some kid is caught checking his texts at those times. I've suggested that checking texts isn't a big deal as long as it's not obvious. If it becomes a problem, at that point ask the particular student to put his phone away.
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Ya the technology push right now in schools is crazy. My school is giving every kid in high school a new MacBook and middle schoolers get iPads.
Phone use in class is inevitable. The officer was out of line.
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It's been reported that there is a video of someone striking the officer.
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The girl tried to fight back from what I hear. Good for her!
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The girl tried to fight back from what I hear. Good for her!
You have got to be kidding me. Are you an anarchist?
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I am not an anarchist. He was abusing her. A badge does not excuse his behavior granting her legal right to defend herself.
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I just read that the young lady is in foster care, having recently become an orphan, and now THIS.
DL Hugely said on Facebook "If any parent had done to THEIR own child what that SC Cop did and it were on tape the parents would be charged with child abuse! #TeamDl"
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I am not an anarchist. He was abusing her. A badge does not excuse his behavior granting her legal right to defend herself.
She refused to listen the the teacher's order. She refused to follow the order of the administration. Failing that, they called in the cop, and she refused to follow his orders. When he went to physically remove her, she hit him, resulting in his use of force.
What should anyone have done? Stop teaching everyone else while this girl disrupted the education of everyone else? If so, for how long? All day?
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This is such bullshit. Hooray, I can say Bullshit!
Students in my class have phones out all the time. Do I care? I use all sorts of technology in the classroom. If they'd rather goof off than listen to me, what do I care?
From every news account I've seen the student wasn't being disruptive, just non compliant. Fine. Leave her be. Let her goof off on her phone. Let them all do it, and flunk them all on their next exam. The smart ones will figure it out, and I haven't time to worry about the rest.
Besides, if there's one thing a teenage girl doesn't like, its begin ignored.
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I couldn't clearly make out where she hit him and therefore presume that it was after the parts that are publicly shown. If this is true, then it dashes your theory that his action was justified to the degree of aggressiveness he used in removing her.
Furthermore: Now that we know more about her circumstances (recently orphaned from losing her mother) does it make sense to treat her with a little more compassion than to cookie cutter label her behavior as "teenage rebellion"? or worse and call her a "thug"? It's the thought process that bears the stench of inhumane treatment. Once your logic arrives there, it becomes a foregone conclusion that race had a factor in, not only the media's treatment of this (ie wait until all the fact have arrived, this isn't racial, she was belligerent) but that evoked a trained response from the general populace and an apathy to her plight.
Contrast her treatment to that of Dylan Roof. He admitted to murdering 9 people was calmly escorted out and then taken to Burger King. Is the disparate treatment (by the mass media) clear?
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Give me a break, JB. I'm sure the cop had no idea that she was recently orphaned. It was obviously important enough to the teacher and vice principal that she be removed from class that the police had to be called.
You didn't answer my question. What else's should have been done? Let her continue to disrupt class?
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Both the officer and the student were in the wrong. The student was being non-compliant and perhaps disruptive. She clearly did not want to leave her desk, so they should have moved her AND the desk - all at once - out to the hall, to the back corner of the classroom with her nose facing the corner, or down to the principal's office.
Also, I see the officer's actions as an act of frustration, not racism. His thankless job is to put up with all sorts of teenage bullshit, day after day, and he may have reached his tipping point with that student (WHICH IS NO EXCUSE). My point is, it wasn't racism. Not everything that involves a black and a white is racism.
I spent one school year as a substitute teacher and there were a few times when I would've LOVED to get a kid in a headlock before tossing them through a window.
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You didn't answer my question. What else's should have been done? Let her continue to disrupt class?
I've yet to see anything suggesting the student was being disruptive outside her noncompliance. And omygoodness, she just lost her mother? The teacher couldn't be a little sensitive to the fact?
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Give me a break, JB. I'm sure the cop had no idea that she was recently orphaned. It was obviously important enough to the teacher and vice principal that she be removed from class that the police had to be called.
You didn't answer my question. What else's should have been done? Let her continue to disrupt class?
The school administration should have known, as it was THEIR JOB TO KNOW. I also read that she was new to that class (or school - not sure). IMO, this is just getting worse for being able to defend the thought process of the school.
I don't know about her being disruptive, so can't comment on that. However, you clearly didn't read my earlier posts on the subject.
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I can never understand justifying child abuse just be cause it happens at school.
What danger did the child cause by being a jerk, and does anyone think that if it were anyone but government employees doing the abusing, would it be excused under similar circumstances?
Not long ago a police sergeant in Clearwater Florida dragged a woman out of her car and arrested her for..... Wait for it.... Taking too long to get her order properly delivered at a fast food places while he was waiting in line behind her.
The city manage actually defended his behavior as appropriate for the circumstances.
The government has become the greatest danger to the public by excusing violent reactions that are totally over the top, inviting even more abusive behavior not to mention formenting the hatred we are seeing of the police.
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I can never understand justifying child abuse just be cause it happens at school.
What danger did the child cause by being a jerk, and does anyone think that if it were anyone but government employees doing the abusing, would it be excused under similar circumstances?
Not long ago a police sergeant in Clearwater Florida dragged a woman out of her car and arrested her for..... Wait for it.... Taking too long to get her order properly delivered at a fast food places while he was waiting in line behind her.
The city manage actually defended his behavior as appropriate for the circumstances.
The government has become the greatest danger to the public by excusing violent reactions that are totally over the top, inviting even more abusive behavior not to mention formenting the hatred we are seeing of the police.
Nevermind what's right vs wrong. Defend the bottom line at all costs. This is short-term thinking. The public needs to hold those officials accountable to a standard of common sense and common decency. Tyrants write laws too to protect their rights of tirade.
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http://madworldnews.com/applaud-termination-officer/
A little extra reading
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So what did we teach the kids. Do whatever the hell you want and don't listen to any instructions and if anyone trys to make you follow rules they Will be punished.
Even scarier what did we just teach those charged with the task of creating safe and productive learning environments.
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http://madworldnews.com/applaud-termination-officer/ (http://madworldnews.com/applaud-termination-officer/)
A little extra reading
Noooo, that article wasn't biased at all.....(/sarcasm)
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Cop *might* have been a bit heavy handed, but as for her, tough crap. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
So, now kids don't have to listen to anybody, even the cops. What a world we live in.
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Where's her father, who should be around to comfort and support her after her mom passed? If he's not dead, then he's probably nowhere to be found or in the hoosegow. :(
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http://madworldnews.com/applaud-termination-officer/ (http://madworldnews.com/applaud-termination-officer/)
A little extra reading
Noooo, that article wasn't biased at all.....(/sarcasm)
Right. It obviously wasn't written by unbiased journalists like the CNBC moderators of Wednesday's debate.
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Cop *might* have been a bit heavy handed, but as for her, tough crap. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
So, now kids don't have to listen to anybody, even the cops. What a world we live in.
Exactly. And I love that quote.
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This is such bullshit. Hooray, I can say Bullshit!
Students in my class have phones out all the time. Do I care? I use all sorts of technology in the classroom. If they'd rather goof off than listen to me, what do I care?
From every news account I've seen the student wasn't being disruptive, just non compliant. Fine. Leave her be. Let her goof off on her phone. Let them all do it, and flunk them all on their next exam. The smart ones will figure it out, and I haven't time to worry about the rest.
Besides, if there's one thing a teenage girl doesn't like, its begin ignored.
There's a huge difference between your teaching environment and a high school. In college it's primarily the student's responsibility to make sure that he knows the subject matter to pass the class. In high school the responsibility of educating falls on the school. You could fail every student in one of your classes and if you could document that every student did not know the minimums the chips fall where they may. If a public school teacher did that SHE would be at fault for not being able to get the material across to the students...and rightly so.
The teacher needs 100% control of the classroom, within reason, so that she can do her job.
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There's a huge difference between your teaching environment and a high school. In college it's primarily the student's responsibility to make sure that he knows the subject matter to pass the class. In high school the responsibility of educating falls on the school. You could fail every student in one of your classes and if you could document that every student did not know the minimums the chips fall where they may. If a public school teacher did that SHE would be at fault for not being able to get the material across to the students...and rightly so.
The teacher needs 100% control of the classroom, within reason, so that she can do her job.
How exactly does sending a girl out of the room educate her better than leaving her in situ. By the way, you can't force anyone to learn anything. Can't be done. If they don't want to learn it doesn't matter what you do, they won't.
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When a liberal is beating the drum for oppressive government intervention, violent reactions, and over reactions, I am always reminded of all their "peaceful" revolutions, except there weren't any that didn't turn toxic, brutal. Degrading, and violent.
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I am not an anarchist. He was abusing her. A badge does not excuse his behavior granting her legal right to defend herself.
She refused to listen the the teacher's order. She refused to follow the order of the administration. Failing that, they called in the cop, and she refused to follow his orders. When he went to physically remove her, she hit him, resulting in his use of force.
What should anyone have done? Stop teaching everyone else while this girl disrupted the education of everyone else? If so, for how long? All day?
She is a dumb highschool student and should have never been treated that way for that offense.
How do you handle the situation? Dismiss the other kids from the classroom to the cafeteria. Now she is alone with the cop, administrator, and teacher. After her classmates have gone she would have folded like a house of cards and complied. Expell her from school for 3 days and have her write a paper on disruptive behavior in class and how it affects everyone. If she doesn't do it expell her for good.
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There's a huge difference between your teaching environment and a high school. In college it's primarily the student's responsibility to make sure that he knows the subject matter to pass the class. In high school the responsibility of educating falls on the school. You could fail every student in one of your classes and if you could document that every student did not know the minimums the chips fall where they may. If a public school teacher did that SHE would be at fault for not being able to get the material across to the students...and rightly so.
The teacher needs 100% control of the classroom, within reason, so that she can do her job.
How exactly does sending a girl out of the room educate her better than leaving her in situ. By the way, you can't force anyone to learn anything. Can't be done. If they don't want to learn it doesn't matter what you do, they won't.
Is anyone concerned about the student's behavior adversely impacting the other students?
How does coddling a misbehaving student enhance the learning environment?
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There's a huge difference between your teaching environment and a high school. In college it's primarily the student's responsibility to make sure that he knows the subject matter to pass the class. In high school the responsibility of educating falls on the school. You could fail every student in one of your classes and if you could document that every student did not know the minimums the chips fall where they may. If a public school teacher did that SHE would be at fault for not being able to get the material across to the students...and rightly so.
The teacher needs 100% control of the classroom, within reason, so that she can do her job.
How exactly does sending a girl out of the room educate her better than leaving her in situ. By the way, you can't force anyone to learn anything. Can't be done. If they don't want to learn it doesn't matter what you do, they won't.
Is anyone concerned about the student's behavior adversely impacting the other students?
How does coddling a misbehaving student enhance the learning environment?
The disruption to the day's lesson plan was the teacher's insistence that the student put away her phone. What would have happened if he simply continued with the day's lesson plan?
Ans: We would have never heard about this in the first place.
Question: Does it concern anyone that the school failed to consider her as an individual (with needs that are not cookie-cutter) who by all appearances is dealing with grief and a (lackluster) foster care system?
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http://www.youngcons.com/breaking-tons-of-students-walk-out-in-protestover-officer-who-was-fired/
Seems like a lot of the students think this all went down wrong.
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http://www.youngcons.com/breaking-tons-of-students-walk-out-in-protestover-officer-who-was-fired/
Seems like a lot of the students think this all went down wrong.
RACIST!
Oh, wait.....
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153378597898432 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153378597898432)
Apologize in advance if anyone doesn't have a Facebook account. I think this man explains succinctly and eloquently the feelings shared by many.
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153378597898432 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153378597898432)
Apologize in advance if anyone doesn't have a Facebook account. I think this man explains succinctly and eloquently the feelings shared by many.
Yet another call by Louie to kill people as retribution. You should be proud.
As for your statement, it seems like "many" don't include other students in the school who walked out in support of the police officer.
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You cannot ignore that's the way many people feel and that it's a wound that gets irritated every-time something like this happens.
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You cannot ignore that's the way many people feel and that it's a wound that gets irritated every-time something like this happens.
Facts be damned, right? :rolleyes:
I suspect those students that walked out in support of the officer know a whole lot more about the situation that you or I know about it.
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You cannot ignore that's the way many people feel and that it's a wound that gets irritated every-time something like this happens.
Facts be damned, right? :rolleyes:
I suspect those students that walked out in support of the officer know a whole lot more about the situation that you or I know about it.
Touch my child like that and we'll see what facts matter.
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You cannot ignore that's the way many people feel and that it's a wound that gets irritated every-time something like this happens.
Facts be damned, right? :rolleyes:
I suspect those students that walked out in support of the officer know a whole lot more about the situation that you or I know about it.
Touch my child like that and we'll see what facts matter.
If you would raise your child to respect the rules, listen to the teacher, listen to the vice principal, listen to the LEO, and not strike the LEO, she wouldn't have had to be touched like that.
Instead you must have raised her to believe that no rules apply to her other than her own rules, to disrespect all authority, and do whatever she damned well pleases whenever she damned well pleases, and anyone who tells her differently is racist.
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You cannot ignore that's the way many people feel and that it's a wound that gets irritated every-time something like this happens.
Facts be damned, right? :rolleyes:
I suspect those students that walked out in support of the officer know a whole lot more about the situation that you or I know about it.
Touch my child like that and we'll see what facts matter.
If you would raise your child to respect the rules, listen to the teacher, listen to the vice principal, listen to the LEO, and not strike the LEO, she wouldn't have had to be touched like that.
Instead you must have raised her to believe that no rules apply to her other than her own rules, to disrespect all authority, and do whatever she damned well pleases whenever she damned well pleases, and anyone who tells her differently is racist.
Poor logic.
1st of all, my children grow up in a home where they know they are loved and where there are clearly communicated expectations and boundaries for those expectations. I understand that not everyone is so fortunate to have a parent who loves them enough to communicate that enforcing discipline is part of that expression of love.
If my child were wayward outside of my presence, I expect those in authority to do what is necessary to restore good order and discipline, even if my child is the guilty party- in fact, I would feel let down if that did not occur.
I will not allow you, nor anyone to tell me that what I saw in that video is NOT what I saw - and that is abuse. IMO the officer went from 0-100 and there was no attempt to contain or deescalate the situation. Based on preponderance of the evidence, I think the man in the video expressed his feelings and those of many other MEN who are FATHERS quite accurately.
Firing the police officer very likely saved him from injury or worse and is in everyone's best interest.
BTW- no one points out the fact that since we've seen 2 videos of the incident that they were recorded on.....wait for it.....OTHER STUDENTS CELLPHONES. Had they not broken the rules, this incident would have been swept under the rug, with ZERO opportunity to Monday Morning Quarterback the handling of the situation.
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
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This is such bullshit. Hooray, I can say Bullshit!
Students in my class have phones out all the time. Do I care? I use all sorts of technology in the classroom. If they'd rather goof off than listen to me, what do I care?
From every news account I've seen the student wasn't being disruptive, just non compliant. Fine. Leave her be. Let her goof off on her phone. Let them all do it, and flunk them all on their next exam. The smart ones will figure it out, and I haven't time to worry about the rest.
Besides, if there's one thing a teenage girl doesn't like, its begin ignored.
This is why I should always read responses first. I completely agree with your comments, and it is what I do in my classroom.
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
Agree.
The response was disproportionate to the "crime."
Now, had she actually been disruptive--and I've experienced that in my classes--that's different. Looked to me like she simply wanted to disengage. After several attempts to get her attention or take away her phone, she continued to resist. So? Write up a report, and send her back home to her sad life.
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
Agree.
The response was disproportionate to the "crime."
Now, had she actually been disruptive--and I've experienced that in my classes--that's different. Looked to me like she simply wanted to disengage. After several attempts to get her attention or take away her phone, she continued to resist. So? Write up a report, and send her back home to her sad life.
They should have tazed her and been done with it. She could have been easily removed from the classroom then and it would have sent a message. As it is most of the students in the class were backing the policeman.
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
Agree.
The response was disproportionate to the "crime."
Now, had she actually been disruptive--and I've experienced that in my classes--that's different. Looked to me like she simply wanted to disengage. After several attempts to get her attention or take away her phone, she continued to resist. So? Write up a report, and send her back home to her sad life.
They should have tazed her and been done with it. She could have been easily removed from the classroom then and it would have sent a message. As it is most of the students in the class were backing the policeman.
Tasing a child to "send a message" is called ruling with an iron fist. That's a bad idea in "the land of the free".
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There seems to be a growing trend with some cops to demand COMPLETE submission. If you don't immediately comply, or ask questions you run the risk of what happened to this girl. They also have become government, thug fee collectors as more, and more they find ways to levy fines, court costs, penalties, etc. No different from the mob if you ask me, accept they have badges, government bueacracy, and the courts behind them.
(We don't need no stinking badges!)
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There seems to be a growing trend with some cops to demand COMPLETE submission. If you don't immediately comply, or ask questions you run the risk of what happened to this girl. They also have become government, thug fee collectors as more, and more they find ways to levy fines, court costs, penalties, etc. No different from the mob if you ask me, accept they have badges, government bueacracy, and the courts behind them.
(We don't need no stinking badges!)
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
Agree.
The response was disproportionate to the "crime."
Now, had she actually been disruptive--and I've experienced that in my classes--that's different. Looked to me like she simply wanted to disengage. After several attempts to get her attention or take away her phone, she continued to resist. So? Write up a report, and send her back home to her sad life.
They should have tazed her and been done with it. She could have been easily removed from the classroom then and it would have sent a message. As it is most of the students in the class were backing the policeman.
I would suggest that even tazing would be too much. As Steingar has said, if she's quietly deciding to withdraw, then let her do that.
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The modern LEO so often, simply makes things worse. Instead of dealing with the situation like an adult, he chose to deal with it like a thug. Sorry if that offends the sensibilities of those who think government is the final authority on all things, but escalating a BS problem like a freaking phone in a freaking classroom, is as stupid as beating a motorist because they refuse to act sufficiently meek.
The idea that adults can;t act like adults it the real problem, not a spoiled, stupid brat.
Agreed.