PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: nddons on June 10, 2021, 07:05:27 PM
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https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/fauci-wuhan-826k/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=press_release
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Yea, but hey, it was just research.
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Doesn't fit the narrative.
I doubt the communist democrats will be willing to discuss it with us.
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Five years from 2014? Hmm.
https://tv.gab.com/channel/davidkirkland/view/2014-video-obama-says-there-will-60bcf2f6366ab51bb7dd1b3b
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And in about the same time frame Pope Tony stated that gain of function research was important and “worth it” even if it created a pandemic.
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Five years from 2014? Hmm.
https://tv.gab.com/channel/davidkirkland/view/2014-video-obama-says-there-will-60bcf2f6366ab51bb7dd1b3b
What he didn’t say is that we first have to suspend the Bill of Rights as we build the “infrastructure.” But that’s what happened.
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Makes sense. They were on the front lines of emerging virus research. There were Americans working in those labs. Sounds like an RO1 grant. I recall there a couple nonprofits who had been working there for a decade who had grants nixed by Trump. They were doing research on the coronaviruses of bats. I recall the grants had huge priority scores, way higher than anything I ever sent in.
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And when they were done some enterprising person sold the infected bats at the local market.
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And when they were done some enterprising person sold the infected bats at the local market.
Possible. I've read bad things about Chinese labs. Here's the thing though. When I've gone one these sorts of inspections the things we bitch about are peeling paint or chemicals stored wrong. I've never seen anyone mouth pipette something dangerous or really do anything that untoward. And I've worked with Chinese scientists fresh off the boat. They were never anything less than meticulous; they functioned up to Western standards. One was one of the most productive scientists I've ever seen, heck my boss' wife, who I don't think even had a PhD had a better CV than me and was recruited by some big name schools.
Based on what I've seen I really doubt the escape theory. My sampling isn't that small, I've worked with a lot of Chinese scientists. At my postdoc I was the only American in the lab. I just never saw anything that would make me think that science in China is that much different from science here. If their habits were that bad there they'd have bad habits here until we taught them otherwise. I never saw that.
Our intelligence services claim that two members of that lab checked into local hospitals with respiratory problems about the time of the COVID outbreak. Yeah, suspicious, but it could have easily been the flu or some other respiratory illness. They have those in Wuhan.
Sadly, we'll never know. The Chinese are being entirely tight lipped about the whole thing, generating lots of suspicion.
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I suspect that the Chinese would not send their idiots here to steal our technology. They would send their best and brightest. The Chinese I've worked with here are also really really good, both students and researchers. But at our university, we wouldn't send our idiots over to China to do research either.
And you're right. We'll never really know what happened. After all this time the crime scene has been sanitized. As have been all the people involved.
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I suspect that the Chinese would not send their idiots here to steal our technology. They would send their best and brightest. The Chinese I've worked with here are also really really good, both students and researchers. But at our university, we wouldn't send our idiots over to China to do research either.
And you're right. We'll never really know what happened. After all this time the crime scene has been sanitized. As have been all the people involved.
Trump was on to the CCP sending their “best and brightest” to US universities to steal research. Too bad he said pussy and offended baby-killing democrats who voted for Biden.
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I suspect that the Chinese would not send their idiots here to steal our technology.
In my experience the Chinese didn’t steal anything, we were happy to give it to them. To most scientists a scientific breakthrough is a good thing no matter which nation it occurs in. You guys are really wrapped up in this whole science fiction virus thing. I suspect bio weapons folks are more interested in weaponizing
extant pathogens.
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In my experience the Chinese didn’t steal anything, we were happy to give it to them. To most scientists a scientific breakthrough is a good thing no matter which nation it occurs in. You guys are really wrapped up in this whole science fiction virus thing. I suspect bio weapons folks are more interested in weaponizing
extant pathogens.
Didn’t U.S. and USSR scientists work together on rockets even during the Cold War? I thought I read that recently. Although we were rivals in the space race. I think they did it secretly. Wouldn’t want the public to know.
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In my experience the Chinese didn’t steal anything, we were happy to give it to them. ...
Which just shows how limited your experience is.
Sure, it's true that many people made some money (in the short run) moving production facilities (and the technology) to China. However, beyond your little world, the harsh reality is that nation states and corporations have a long history of espionage, military and commercial. It would be precious for you to claim that China isn't still actively looking to steal technology.
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Which just shows how limited your experience is.
Sure, it's true that many people made some money (in the short run) moving production facilities (and the technology) to China. However, beyond your little world, the harsh reality is that nation states and corporations have a long history of espionage, military and commercial. It would be precious for you to claim that China isn't still actively looking to steal technology.
There is no doubt a difference between the academic and business worlds. China definitely steals corporate proprietary secrets and intellectual property through illegal means, I read a whole book on it. Heck, my own husband saw an ad while he was in China taking credit for his own company’s patented invention. But university researchers often like to collaborate is my understanding.
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There is no doubt a difference between the academic and business worlds. China definitely steals corporate proprietary secrets and intellectual property through illegal means, I read a whole book on it. Heck, my own husband saw an ad while he was in China taking credit for his own company’s patented invention. But university researchers often like to collaborate is my understanding.
Don’t kid yourself. Lots of those university researchers from China have ties to the CCP and the military, and are selected by the CCP to come here for research, and also to gather intellectual material and other intellectual property.
China lacks the technology of the west, and they need this to make their goal. NASA is a prime example. Yes, NASA shares technology and scientific research, but the contractors to NASA indeed have intellectual data they don’t share. The Chinese want this and use NASA as their conduit.
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But university researchers often like to collaborate is my understanding.
You're right. But my university has a long list of things we're not allowed to export or collaborate on with certain countries. We're even restricted in what we can bring with us. For example:
All university travel to the below countries WILL REQUIRE that an Informational Technology Services clean laptop be used during university business travel to these countries. Your university issued laptop computer SHALL NOT be transported to any of the below countries.
Iran
Syria
Sudan
North Korea
Cuba
Ukraine (Crimea Region)
China
Russia
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Don’t kid yourself. Lots of those university researchers from China have ties to the CCP and the military, and are selected by the CCP to come here for research, and also to gather intellectual material and other intellectual property.
Oh I am aware of that. I’m just saying they don’t have to steal it in the academic setting; we just give it to them. (Unless a university is doing classified research.)
China lacks the technology of the west, and they need this to make their goal. NASA is a prime example. Yes, NASA shares technology and scientific research, but the contractors to NASA indeed have intellectual data they don’t share. The Chinese want this and use NASA as their conduit.
Exactly, but NASA isn’t a university. Although universities have developed specific things NASA uses such as the shuttle heat tiles. I would imagine those type projects would be prohibited from sharing with China.
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Exactly, but NASA isn’t a university. Although universities have developed specific things NASA uses such as the shuttle heat tiles. I would imagine those type projects would be prohibited from sharing with China.
At least in the beginning of NASA part of their mandate/charter was that the technology developed by NASA was to be in the public domain. I'm sure it's more complicated than that (especially with NASA facilities/equipment/etc being used for classified launches)
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Oh I am aware of that. I’m just saying they don’t have to steal it in the academic setting; we just give it to them. (Unless a university is doing classified research.)
Exactly, but NASA isn’t a university. Although universities have developed specific things NASA uses such as the shuttle heat tiles. I would imagine those type projects would be prohibited from sharing with China.
Academic settings are a conduit into intellectual property. That’s what they want.
I think the associate perfesser would be shocked to find out how many of his fellow Chinese researchers have ties to the CCP.
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At least in the beginning of NASA part of their mandate/charter was that the technology developed by NASA was to be in the public domain.
Ah, that fits with my memory of hearing they worked with Russian scientists.
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Academic settings are a conduit into intellectual property. That’s what they want.
I think the associate perfesser would be shocked to find out how many of his fellow Chinese researchers have ties to the CCP.
Ties or not I’m sure any Chinese person will be subject to the CCP if they think he has something of value. It’s like the CCP regards the people as its property which is basically why I find them and governments like them abhorrent.
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In my experience the Chinese didn’t steal anything, we were happy to give it to them. To most scientists a scientific breakthrough is a good thing no matter which nation it occurs in. You guys are really wrapped up in this whole science fiction virus thing. I suspect bio weapons folks are more interested in weaponizing
extant pathogens.
Back in the late '70s, early '80s I worked for a fortune 500 technology company. We wanted to expand to China to both manufacture and distribute our product. But while this would have been extremely profitable for us because of the cheap labor, the huge market, and giant incentives from the Chinese Government (eg: free land and building and little or no tax), in exchange they wanted the rights to our patents and other IP. We passed and went elsewhere, but obviously many industries cooperated with them.
If outright theft and espionage don't work, they don't mind falling back on bribery, coercion or even honey pots.
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In my experience the Chinese didn’t steal anything, we were happy to give it to them. To most scientists a scientific breakthrough is a good thing no matter which nation it occurs in. You guys are really wrapped up in this whole science fiction virus thing. I suspect bio weapons folks are more interested in weaponizing
extant pathogens.
You’re kidding, right?
Well I guess when you are academia reaping the benefit of $14 billion of annual revenue to accommodate 360,000 Chinese Nationals in US universities, such “science fiction” helps pay your salary.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/us-looks-to-block-chinese-grad-students-and-researchers-visas-67591
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Ah, that fits with my memory of hearing they worked with Russian scientists.
I’m sure the SAC officers sitting underground in silos in Minot would have been thrilled to know that.
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You’re kidding, right?
Well I guess when you are academia reaping the benefit of $14 billion of annual revenue to accommodate 360,000 Chinese Nationals in US universities, such “science fiction” helps pay your salary.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/us-looks-to-block-chinese-grad-students-and-researchers-visas-67591
Thats roughly $38K person Chinese scientist if those numbers are right. Doesn't sound like much of a salary for someone with a PhD.
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Thats roughly $38K person Chinese scientist if those numbers are right. Doesn't sound like much of a salary for someone with a PhD.
You are a fucking idiot.
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Thats roughly $38K person Chinese scientist if those numbers are right. Doesn't sound like much of a salary for someone with a PhD.
So, you think the CCP gives one iota crap about what their PhD's are paid? Seriously??
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So, you think the CCP gives one iota crap about what their PhD's are paid? Seriously??
He has no idea because he doesn't actually think.
He regurgitates whatever his masters tell him to pretend to think.
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So, you think the CCP gives one iota crap about what their PhD's are paid? Seriously??
Since the numbers applied to the USA I thought about what we pay researchers. Like I said, 38K ain't much for a PHD. It's a lot for a student though, and a lot fo Chinese students are trained here. Lots from Taiwan, too.
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Thats roughly $38K person Chinese scientist if those numbers are right. Doesn't sound like much of a salary for someone with a PhD.
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it, Sport?
Do you know the difference between income and expense? A salary is an expense. Tuition and fees are income.
“University officials note that banning Chinese nationals who participate in research could slow scientific progress and result in untoward economic consequences. The 360,000 Chinese nationals who come to the US for graduate studies or postdocs contribute about $14 billion to academic institutions, largely from tuition and other fees, Reuters reports. “
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Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it, Sport?
One really has to wonder how an individual can obtain a PhD in anything by having poor writing and reading comprehension skills.
Or are the degrees awarded strictly based upon ideology of the candidate and a willingness to indoctrinate others?
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Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it, Sport?
Do you know the difference between income and expense? A salary is an expense. Tuition and fees are income.
“University officials note that banning Chinese nationals who participate in research could slow scientific progress and result in untoward economic consequences. The 360,000 Chinese nationals who come to the US for graduate studies or postdocs contribute about $14 billion to academic institutions, largely from tuition and other fees, Reuters reports. “
My bad, my mind on another track. However, your understanding of academia could use some improvement. The vast majority of grad students and postdoctoral researchers pay bubkiss in tuition. Mostly it's just numbers moved around. I've never heard of postdocs being on tap for anything, but that could just be the institutions at which I worked.
All of the Chinese I've known in science worked their cans off hard. I asked a couple about it, and the answer was quite illuminating. They said that everything was in English, which with they weren't entirely conversant. What do you do when you aren't working? Got to a movie? Couldn't understand any of it. Watch TV? Same. Hard to go do outdoor sports in the middle of the city. They wind up working because it's more entertaining that sitting in the house doing nothing. At least, that's what they told me.
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My bad, my mind on another track. However, your understanding of academia could use some improvement. The vast majority of grad students and postdoctoral researchers pay bubkiss in tuition. Mostly it's just numbers moved around. I've never heard of postdocs being on tap for anything, but that could just be the institutions at which I worked.
It's pretty common for grad students who work for the university or teach to get tuition waivers. But that's only tuition. The fees are what really add on the costs.
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Thats roughly $38K person Chinese scientist if those numbers are right. Doesn't sound like much of a salary for someone with a PhD.
That $14Billioin doesn't go to those 360k Chinese students. They don't get squat.
The $14 B goes to a much smaller number of corrupt American Bureaucrats.
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They said that everything was in English, which with they weren't entirely conversant.
So you were led to believe
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So you were led to believe
Just imagine for a moment these Chinese researchers talking with each other after meeting and listening to the associate perfesser. :o
"These Americans are so stupid!" "Xi was right!"
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Just imagine for a moment these Chinese researchers talking with each other after meeting and listening to the associate perfesser. :o
"These Americans are so stupid!" "Xi was right!"
I was in a lab where I was the only American. Had to write all the papers. I recall them listening to the then Chinese Premier, I think it was Li Peng. They were so happy to make fun of him and criticize. Said they couldn't do it in China.
One of them came to see me in my one horse town, her daughter had a competition there. It was such a pleasure to see her. During dinner she claimed I was the only one ever to work in that lab she could stand, which came as a huge surprise to me (only women that could ever stomach my presence are my mom and my wife, and both of those are marginal at best). But thankfully she gave me some closure on something that had been bothering me tremendously.
One day awhile back I went to look up a review I'd published with my boss. I just fed his name into Pubmed, I figured I'd come up with it. There really weren't many recents, a real surprise. During my tenure that lab had been one of the most productive in the NIH. I figured my boss was headed for section chief. Deserved it too, hugely bright guy.
I did a bit more digging and discovered that he had moved back to China. Couldn't for the life of me figure out why. He hasn't published in the international literature since that I know of.
Thankfully my colleague from DC shed some light on the situation. Apparently after I left interpersonal issues got really bad in the lab, and HR even got involved. When my boss got the job offer from China he took it and ran. That of course gives me one of my very few regrets in life.
I could have kept him here. I know I could have. Had I really known what was going on (I visited the lab during this period and knew something was up) I could have easily talked him into staying. I could have recruited him here in a heartbeat, I know the med school dead keeps a war chest in case someone like him drops in his lap. My old boss could have scored an endowed Chair someone easily. He was that good. And I know he'd have listened to me. And now he's lost to the Western Scientific community, a real shame.