PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: PeterNSteinmetz on August 16, 2023, 08:48:30 PM
-
What do people here think of Trump’s prospects in the general election?
Apparently the polling on this has him and Biden in a dead heat in the general election. Certainly he has his very strong base. But it strikes me that is not enough in itself to win in the general.
If he tacks toward the middle as the election closes in, it seems he won’t lose his base. But that may just bring us back to a repeat of 2020. This is of course the general strategy.
Could another strategy be to instead tack further right and in a libertarian way? It is often said that the far right and far left sort of converge when it comes to many freedom issues. I know he is a populist nationalist, but I wonder if that might work?
-
It’s going to come down to a few swing states and those will be heavily compromised with cheating. Whether it’s enough to overcome the Trump votes I have no idea. His tacking to middle or more right would have to appeal to independent voters just in those states and a lot of them.
It’s a tricky question but assuming independents are independent for the reason that they’re not far right, I’d say tacking to the middle would be better if I had to pick one. But I’d rather he just stay focused on the economy, what matters to people’s day to day life. It would be risky to change position on an issue while his momentum is going in the right direction.
He shouldn’t roll out anything on gun control for example. Some centrists or independents might be for “sensible gun control” so he shouldn’t go all 2nd amendment absolutist but neither should he propose any new gun control or he will piss off the 2nd amendment absolutists.
When asked about crime he should leave gun control out of it and focus on improving the economy as a bad economy is related to crime, focus strengthening police forces, strengthening the border, and promoting armed security in schools to protect children.
On abortion he needs to stay the hell away from the subject as much as possible. He can state that it is correct to send it back to the states period end of story. If he says he supports a federal level ban on abortion or the FDA ban on the “abortion pill” then he will piss off a lot of libertarians, centrists and Constitutionalists. But if he says something like the FDA should allow the “abortion pill” he might lose a lot of far right pro-lifers and he cannot afford that. So he needs to STFU about abortion altogether. When asked about it, bring the subject back to the economy. “I’m going to get inflation down, bring back low gas prices and bring back jobs so people don’t feel like they can’t afford a child which is a major reason people get abortions. Next question.”
Most people don’t face guns or abortions on a daily basis but they do face high food and gas prices and wages that don’t keep up. 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and using credit cards to buy groceries. They face this all day long every day and that is what Trump needs to leverage. He needs to focus on energy specifically because fuel costs are a major underlying cause of high prices. He needs to campaign on stopping the flow of dollars to Ukraine as another cause because we are printing money we don’t have, and he maybe needs to address the pandemic’s role in hurting the economy. Just say the pandemic hurt the economy but it would have been worse if I hadn’t gotten it so good by 2019.
-
If it was a level playing field where elections were decided by ideas, then Trump would win in a landslide.
But he's against a VERY biased media who amplifies a dork in a MAGA hat yelling at one of the privileged class while downplaying the mostly peaceful fires and bombs and killings of the left. And all of Hollywood. And all of the establishment class. And the MIC. And the academics right down to preschool. Last time they underestimated his popularity. Now they will do whatever it takes to destroy it. And they will cheat on the election. Lastly they will Lee Harvey him and then Ruby the Lee to erase all evidence.
I truly hope that there are enough people out there who will see through the shit and vote for Trump. But he will have a very tough time at it. CAN he win? Yes. Certainly. Will he win, I don't think so. There's just too much aligned against him.
-
Speaking with acquaintances that live outside of Florida I’m surprised at how many people tell me about friends, coworkers, and neighbors who hint at. Going for President Trump but hesitate to speak or otherwise signal their support because of the toxic leftists that go scorched earth whenever anyone voices their support.
Even hollyweird types seem to be careful speaking up.
-
Speaking with acquaintances that live outside of Florida I’m surprised at how many people tell me about friends, coworkers, and neighbors who hint at. Going for President Trump but hesitate to speak or otherwise signal their support because of the toxic leftists that go scorched earth whenever anyone voices their support.
Even hollyweird types seem to be careful speaking up.
And this is the desired effect. And we are not just talking toxic leftist, as the UniParty and the establishment republicans have joined in.
Paul Fuckin' Ryan, one of the biggest UniParty hacks of all time, now sits on the board of FoxNews and has contributed greatly to their narrative to push establishment candidates. Paul Fuckin' Ryan is behind the "Trump will get the nomination but lose in the general" while pushing a candidate that can't even win in the primaries.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb! jumps in. ::)
-
I look for hilary to start campaigning and claiming she is just doing it to save democracy.
By that time I’d expect lizzy borden cheney to declare her desire to save democracy
-
Most people don’t face guns or abortions on a daily basis but they do face high food and gas prices and wages that don’t keep up. 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and using credit cards to buy groceries. They face this all day long every day and that is what Trump needs to leverage. He needs to focus on energy specifically because fuel costs are a major underlying cause of high prices. He needs to campaign on stopping the flow of dollars to Ukraine as another cause because we are printing money we don’t have, and he maybe needs to address the pandemic’s role in hurting the economy. Just say the pandemic hurt the economy but it would have been worse if I hadn’t gotten it so good by 2019.
Very true. The other thing I suspect Trump should stay absolutely away from is "the 2020 election was stolen from me". That is related to many of his indictments and frankly most people don't think fraud was a significant factor in the outcome and that it makes him look like a sore loser. I don't see any upside for him because while this riles up his base, they are going to stand behind him anyway. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be able to stay away from that subject. I imagine it really bothers his ego and he just can't help himself.
-
Very true. The other thing I suspect Trump should stay absolutely away from is "the 2020 election was stolen from me". That is related to many of his indictments and frankly most people don't think fraud was a significant factor in the outcome and that it makes him look like a sore loser. I don't see any upside for him because while this riles up his base, they are going to stand behind him anyway. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be able to stay away from that subject. I imagine it really bothers his ego and he just can't help himself.
The state run media, the democrat communist party and the Washington UniParty want everyone to stop talking about 2020. Ask yourself why?
FJB supposedly got 81 million votes, the largest in history. January 6th was a staged riot to deflect from the 2020 election, and when FJB was inaugurated he surrounded himself with 20,000 troops. All of this was done by a guy that supposedly won the largest vote total in history.
Our country has been in a constitutional crisis since the election of 2020. We've watched rights being eroded, we now have a weaponized federal government with a DoJ/FBI acting like the KGB. We have a congress that acts like a politburo. We're pouring money into unsustainable green energy plans and a useless war in Ukraine. All of this brought to us by a senile perverted pedophile criminal who gained office under mountains of evidence of voter fraud.
Ignoring a problem is not how you make it go away. Right now the democrat communist are plotting to make 2020 seem insignificant with what they have planned.
-
Very true. The other thing I suspect Trump should stay absolutely away from is "the 2020 election was stolen from me". That is related to many of his indictments and frankly most people don't think fraud was a significant factor in the outcome and that it makes him look like a sore loser. I don't see any upside for him because while this riles up his base, they are going to stand behind him anyway. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be able to stay away from that subject. I imagine it really bothers his ego and he just can't help himself.
THAT SINGLE naive belief is what needs to be called out and disproven continually from the rooftops, Congress, all campaigns, and all media. The election was stolen. Fact. Biden’s “win” statistically was impossible. To believe otherwise is magical thinking employed because the true horror of being taken captive by crimimals is too awful for most comfortable Americans to accept.
Also, what Lucifer just posted.
No amount of intellectual sophistry can overcome what we face. “Sore loser” is just another trope applied to Donald Trump because it deflects attention onto him and away from the horror of the reality.
-
I wholeheartedly agree with what Lucifer and Becky just posted however I also agree with Peter. Trump should not be the one to constantly hammer on it, but everyone else should. Trump himself should focus on what he will do when in office.
We need all Republicans at all levels to push the election fraud loud and clear, but because Trump was the personal loser, it does make it look “personal” for him to yammer on about it and hence not about us the people. His focus needs to be on us the people and our immediate problems with the presumption he WILL be re-elected. But everyone else needs to fight like hell to make sure that happens, not because we want Trump but because we need elections to be trustworthy or our nation is dead.
-
and President Trump and all people should make sure that the election is done with integrity.
Even if Presidenet Trump isn't running, he should still be looking for election integrity.
-
A fair election is racist.
-
Wait…isn’t hilary the rightful President?
How come nobody is indicting her for election interference?
What about stacy abrams? I specifically heard her demand the results of two elections be overturned,
-
Wait…isn’t hilary the rightful President?
How come nobody is indicting her for election interference?
What about stacy abrams? I specifically heard her demand the results of two elections be overturned,
OwlGore brought in an Army of lawyers to litigate the 2000 election, and his followers and MSM went 24/7 howling “stolen election”. They even went to court several times, but failed each time due to no evidence. Why even OwlGore assembled a WH transition team with federal funding.
John Kerry pleaded stolen election in 2004. Hillary pleaded stolen election in 2016, and went as far as producing fraudulent evidence against the winner.
-
I just looked it up and about 1/3 of the US believe that election fraud was a significant factor. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/almost-third-americans-still-believe-2020-election-result-was-fraudule-rcna90145
This is higher than I would have expected but makes things a bit more complicated for Trump. I tend to agree with Rush however that it is likely best from the point of view of gaining votes to not hammer on it.
And Becky, I will note that saying a belief is naive is just applying a label and doesn't really say much about the fact of it. Also that since a belief itself cannot be naive, it borders on making an assumption about the speakers state of mind. I understand that is your strong belief though. I guess we haven't tested whether that is falsifiable.
-
I should also note, though this is somewhat off topic, that I understand why a large number of people have a strong inclination to think the election was "stolen". It is far easier to think that is the case and that voting will get us out of this mess than to face what I think is the sad reality.
We likely won't get out of this mess by voting. Both factions of the uniparty want to split the electorate just about 50/50 and keep them constantly bickering and fighting and voting for one or the other faction. This keeps them in power. And also tends to hide the fact that they are both rapidly stripping away our liberties with statist interventions.
But it is much more comfortable and easy to think it will be fixed by voting. Voting is a fairly safe and easy thing to do. I wished it would work, but I doubt it.
-
I should also note, though this is somewhat off topic, that I understand why a large number of people have a strong inclination to think the election was "stolen". It is far easier to think that is the case and that voting will get us out of this mess than to face what I think is the sad reality.
We likely won't get out of this mess by voting. Both factions of the uniparty want to split the electorate just about 50/50 and keep them constantly bickering and fighting and voting for one or the other faction. This keeps them in power. And also tends to hide the fact that they are both rapidly stripping away our liberties with statist interventions.
But it is much more comfortable and easy to think it will be fixed by voting. Voting is a fairly safe and easy thing to do. I wished it would work, but I doubt it.
Voter apathy is strong in this country, this is what has created career politicians. If you ask Joe Citizen what he thinks of congress, he'll immediately tell you "they suck!". Then if you ask him how he thinks his congressman is doing, he'll say "Oh, he's ok. It's the rest of them that are bad".
All one needs to do is look at the percentages of voters that actually vote versus registered. It's appalling, and even worse in an off year election. The ones who do vote go in and vote on name recognition.
We have some real trash in congress and the senate. These people couldn't run a Slurpee machine at a 7/11, but here they are in congress, while their staff creates legislation that they blindly submit without even reading.
Our founding fathers never ever envisioned career politicians. And the 17th amendment only complicated the problem.
-
People can believe or not believe the 2020 election was stolen based on their shallow consumption of information. The watchers of MSNBC and CNN won’t of course and many Trump voters who watch Fox might not also.
You have to have dug into the facts to be convinced that it was virtually impossible statistically for Biden to have won. If you dig deep into the facts, you have to be delusional to still think Biden won. You have to understand bellwether counties, the history of how states have gone, read the forensic reports of the Dominion machines, read or seen video of testimonies and affidavits of fraudulent ballots or improper “curing” of illegitimate votes, and so on. There is plenty of evidence of massive and organized fraud in at least six states in the critical districts that flip flopped the count from Trump to Biden late that night or the next day. If you did that deep dive then it’s very unlikely you still think Biden legitimately won.
-
If you did that deep dive then it’s very unlikely you still think Biden legitimately won.
Have to disagree. For example, when we last looked into the allegations of "coordinated systematic fraud" in the film 2000 Mules, the analysis is quite faulty.
Perhaps you have non-falsifiable beliefs about this. What sort of evidence would it take to persuade you of the truth of the assertion: the fraud that existed in the 2020 Presidential election was not sufficient to affect the outcome?
Is there any that could possibly exist? If so, what would do it for you?
Personally I think the declared winning margin was well within the normal error rate of this type of process. The person who "won" was essentially random.
-
why does it devolve to only "oordinated systematic fraud"?
-
why does it devolve to only "oordinated systematic fraud"?
Bob IIRC you have non-falsifiable beliefs about this subject. So I will just politely acknowledge those are your beliefs and won’t be discussing them further with you. Unless you want to demonstrate your beliefs are falsifiable of course. Cheers, Peter
ETA: but what do you think of Trump’s chances of winning the general election?
-
And this is the desired effect. And we are not just talking toxic leftist, as the UniParty and the establishment republicans have joined in.
Paul Fuckin' Ryan, one of the biggest UniParty hacks of all time, now sits on the board of FoxNews and has contributed greatly to their narrative to push establishment candidates. Paul Fuckin' Ryan is behind the "Trump will get the nomination but lose in the general" while pushing a candidate that can't even win in the primaries.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb! jumps in. ::)
Relax. We aren’t all lemmings following the rhetoric of a single man, such as some Trump supporters.
I haven’t watched Fox News since Tucker left, and this have no idea what Ryan and his network are saying, but most clear thinking people can step back and objectively see that Trump is less less popular and more burdened with his legal problems than he ever was in 2020.
But he’s got that 60% of the GOP and 30% of the electorate right behind him.
-
One example of cheating is that several states courts changed their election rules by extending voting days, accepting mail-in ballots after the deadline, and mass mailing ballots to everyone in the name of "pandemic". The election rules can ONLY be changed by the state legislature, not by decree or by the court.
While it's possible that all the mail-in ballots came in on time and were only filled in by officially registered voters, it's clear that they were not on time and were filled in by people who were either not allowed to vote or by those voting many times "to help someone out". There are many other allegations of cheating, but this alone was enough to tip the balance over to FJB.
-
Have to disagree. For example, when we last looked into the allegations of "coordinated systematic fraud" in the film 2000 Mules, the analysis is quite faulty.
Perhaps you have non-falsifiable beliefs about this. What sort of evidence would it take to persuade you of the truth of the assertion: the fraud that existed in the 2020 Presidential election was not sufficient to affect the outcome?
Is there any that could possibly exist? If so, what would do it for you?
Personally I think the declared winning margin was well within the normal error rate of this type of process. The person who "won" was essentially random.
I wasn’t even counting what they did in 2000 Mules. I’m still trying to figure out what throwing an orange up in the air has to do with any of this.
-
Bob IIRC you have non-falsifiable beliefs about this subject. So I will just politely acknowledge those are your beliefs and won’t be discussing them further with you. Unless you want to demonstrate your beliefs are falsifiable of course. Cheers, Peter
ETA: but what do you think of Trump’s chances of winning the general election?
lame dodge.
You CLAIM I have a non-falsifiable belief. For example, have you actual proof that I'm not open to being shown how the mail-in ballots have integrity?
I don't have confidence in the integrity of the election process. Just pretend I'm from the show-me state.
-
petey is trying to shut down the topic by introducing utter bullshit and calling it scientific.
Anyone with an actual brain, not a devotion to left wing idiocy, can see that widespread, massive vote fraud was perpetrated and that democrat appointed judges and assholes on the court made up the law to try and keep the truth from seeing the light of day.
Pretending that understanding obvious facts is anything but legitimate just further erodes petey's objectivity as a self proclaimed scientist, and destroys his believability.
To protect himself from the truth of this observation, petey will declare the topic closed, just like the fucktard mmgw whores who try to shut down dissent by declaring that the science is settled.
-
One example of cheating is that several states courts changed their election rules by extending voting days, accepting mail-in ballots after the deadline, and mass mailing ballots to everyone in the name of "pandemic". The election rules can ONLY be changed by the state legislature, not by decree or by the court.
While it's possible that all the mail-in ballots came in on time and were only filled in by officially registered voters, it's clear that they were not on time and were filled in by people who were either not allowed to vote or by those voting many times "to help someone out". There are many other allegations of cheating, but this alone was enough to tip the balance over to FJB.
Some of the cheating had otherwise technically legal votes but was in fact unconstitutional as you point out in your first paragraph.
Look, the Dems admitted to “fixing” the election, they outright bragged about it in the Time article. They said here’s how we are going to make sure Trump doesn’t win: A. B. C. Etc.
-
I wholeheartedly agree with what Lucifer and Becky just posted however I also agree with Peter. Trump should not be the one to constantly hammer on it, but everyone else should. Trump himself should focus on what he will do when in office.
We need all Republicans at all levels to push the election fraud loud and clear, but because Trump was the personal loser, it does make it look “personal” for him to yammer on about it and hence not about us the people. His focus needs to be on us the people and our immediate problems with the presumption he WILL be re-elected. But everyone else needs to fight like hell to make sure that happens, not because we want Trump but because we need elections to be trustworthy or our nation is dead.
And therein lies the problem which Peter was asserting.
I don’t think there is any possible way that Trump doesn’t make the 2024 election about the 2020 election, and how he was cheated. That line of thinking will suck up all the oxygen in the room.
Thus, a good chunk of the electorate will look at him as a sore loser.
I’ve said before, I’d the 2024 election is all about Trump, we will lose the general. There’s no question in my mind.
If he makes it about us, he could win, but I don’t think he’s capable of stepping outside of himself to do that.
-
I wasn’t even counting what they did in 2000 Mules. I’m still trying to figure out what throwing an orange up in the air has to do with any of this.
Really. I am actually surprised. But if you want to explore further see https://reasonandmeaning.com/2020/11/26/why-non-falsifiable-beliefs-are-absurd/ .
Since you avoid the question I will assume your beliefs on this are non-falsifiable until demonstrated otherwise.
-
lame dodge.
For example, have you actual proof that I'm not open to being shown how the mail-in ballots have integrity?
Yes, I think that many of your prior postings on the subject strongly indicate the beliefs are non-falsifiable. And the inability or unwillingness to demonstrate how to falsify them sort of makes it a very reasonable conclusion. Until shown otherwise by demonstrating how they would be falsified.
-
What would change my mind, Peter?
Well, it would have been far more advantageous for the Dem/RINO/cabal immediately to begin releasing ALL election data as requested to show a squeaky clean election. “Oh, my! Some fraud? We need to look into that!” And then do it. Answer all challenges with proof things were done properly. That would have satisfied me.
What actually did they do? Censor, obscure, shadowban, gaslight, label, refuse to answer germane questions, take down videos and testimonies, try to delegitimize actual audits and canvasses, address NOT AT ALL the repeated question of who ordered the counting stopped in six states at the same time, and INDICT and attempt to destroy a former President of the United States for the sole reason that he could expose them once and for all and remove their power.
Add to that the fact that my husband and I saw the 2020 election stolen before our very eyes on election night. We saw the weird jumps in numbers, the way too early call of Arizona, took screenshots, watched multiple sources covering the election, and watched in horror as the counting continued the following day as is the modus operandi of the fraudsters which we have seen many times in our state.
Videos of Republican poll watchers being kept 100 feet from the actual counting. Depositions and hearings and of course video of the suitcases of ballots being pulled out from under tables, after the counting was “stopped” and most workers sent home. Those ballots were then run multiple times through the machines. On camera. Someone forgot security cams were running. We saw the video.
Depositions of workers comparing ballots and saying ballots were brought in with the ovals filled in for Biden with the exact same off-center position. Printed on a printer along with ballot itself. Analysis of paper, finding that fraudulent ballots indeed were not legal. We saw these testimonies.
Dominion employees testifying they were told by their management to sit there and not do anything to the machines. Not to touch them, even if someone told them there was a problem. We saw these testimonies.
And on and on and on. Answer each of my statements above with proof I didn’t see what I saw, or that what I saw was not true. The depth and breadth of this fraud were chillingly obvious, and not just to us. There are people at all levels in place to do it again, there is no question.
I’ll grant that my premises have the potential to be falsifiable. But in three years they haven’t been. I wish I were wrong. But to expect President Trump to stop talking about this massive steal is absurd. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE DEM/RINO/CABAL WANTS HIM, AND YOU, TO DO.
-
We have some real trash in congress and the senate. These people couldn't run a Slurpee machine at a 7/11, but here they are in congress, while their staff creates legislation that they blindly submit without even reading.
Our founding fathers never ever envisioned career politicians. And the 17th amendment only complicated the problem.
Some of the greatest entertainment - in a demolition derby-type of entertainment - is to see bartender AOC try to act like a seasoned career lawyer in congressional hearings. I don’t think bartender school covered ConLaw.
-
Really. I am actually surprised. But if you want to explore further see https://reasonandmeaning.com/2020/11/26/why-non-falsifiable-beliefs-are-absurd/ .
Since you avoid the question I will assume your beliefs on this are non-falsifiable until demonstrated otherwise.
I’m not avoiding it so much as I’m busy working at my job, with a very sore tooth, and I just can’t concentrate enough or have time right now to come up with a response about what it would take to convince me the election wasn’t stolen.
Edit: What Becky said!
-
Relax. We aren’t all lemmings following the rhetoric of a single man, such as some Trump supporters.
I haven’t watched Fox News since Tucker left, and this have no idea what Ryan and his network are saying, but most clear thinking people can step back and objectively see that Trump is less less popular and more burdened with his legal problems than he ever was in 2020.
But he’s got that 60% of the GOP and 30% of the electorate right behind him.
That’s rich, puppy kicker.
We aren’t all lemmings following the rhetoric of a single man
Says the lemming following the rhetoric of a guy that can’t even get a campaign out of the gutter. ::) ::)
-
What would change my mind, Peter?
Well, it would have been far more advantageous for the Dem/RINO/cabal immediately to begin releasing ALL election data as requested to show a squeaky clean election. “Oh, my! Some fraud? We need to look into that!” And then do it. Answer all challenges with proof things were done properly. That would have satisfied me.
OK, so that sounds at least in principle falsifiable. So you would need to see all the election data released? Exactly what does that entail in your view? Some questions come immediately to mind.
Is this just for the counties where people wanted to contest it? Or all of them?
Can it be confined to just the Presidential race?
What exactly do you mean by "all the election data"? A copy of each and every ballot?
-
That’s rich, puppy kicker.
Says the lemming following the rhetoric of a guy that can’t even get a campaign out of the gutter. ::) ::)
Trump: DeSantis is a RINO.
3 seconds later…
Lucifer: DeSantis is a RINO!
Trump: DeSantis is establishment.
3 seconds later…
Lucifer: DeSantis is establishment!
And on and on and on.
-
Trump: DeSantis is a RINO.
3 seconds later…
Lucifer: DeSantis is a RINO!
Trump: DeSantis is establishment.
3 seconds later…
Lucifer: DeSantis is establishment!
And on and on and on.
LOL. Your channeling your inner JeffDG.
-
https://twitter.com/DiamondandSilk/status/1691965774825435578