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Messages - SoonerAviator

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Spin Zone / Re: More sewerage from a squad member
« on: December 16, 2019, 09:19:32 PM »
“...decriminalizing consensual sex work...”
That’s something I support. That and dropping other victimless “crimes”.

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Spin Zone / Re: PoA does it again.
« on: December 15, 2019, 09:03:27 AM »
I really don’t think that talking about POA is any different from talking about any other subject.

There are some interesting things about POA as they relate to our experiences there and here. It’s kind of interesting that basically, on POA, you can’t talk about POA and its policies and posters, but on Pilotspin we can talk about POA and its policies and posters freely. That’s a sweet irony, and pointing out irony is interesting.

We have some friends who are smart, interesting conservatives with whom we always have great conversations about ANYTHING AT ALL. No limits. We call ourselves “sanctuary friends.” We even invented a holiday that we celebrate together called “Sanctuary Friendsgiving.” Our conversations include pointing out now and then how we feel about the liberals in our lives and in our country. We point out the direction things are taking, and how we feel about it.

Similarly, it’s interesting here to point out things we notice about POA, such as their startling policy (that I had never noticed before) of removing locked threads entirely. Deplatforming and silencing those who dissent from The Narrative in many venues is a disturbing sign of our ever tightening media bias and control, and it is .... interesting to talk about.

We are all here because POA shut down the Spin Zone, and we wanted to continue freely conversing about anything.

I will posit that it is absolutely vital for human flourishing to have the freedom to talk about anything, including your ability to talk about anything. Change my mind.

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Spin Zone / Re: PoA does it again.
« on: December 15, 2019, 04:15:31 AM »
Which one of us do you believe let things slip over outside the SZ?  Surely you can name someone. Also, which of us causes threads to get locked over there now? 

One of the things folks are critical of is what, they perceive, to be a  bias in the suspending or hand slapping that goes on.
If you don't care, why have you commented?
Eppy, 99 times out of a hundred, I agree with you.  But occasionally, I think we see something differently.

The way I see Sooner in this exchange is, he doesn't care what POA does, and he is curious about why so many people here seem to care so much.

I disagreed with their decision to get rid of the spin zone.  So I came over here to do essentially the same thing. 
Most of the people over there seem to like it over there.  So I too am curious about why some people here still seem to hold a grudge.

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Now the real fun begins.  In the senate the President will have rights, rights the dims can’t arbitrarily remove to their benefit.  The Presidents legal team can begin discovery and issue depositions, subpoenas and interrogatories.  And they will carry the weight of the law. 

I don't think so.  I think they will open the hearings, talk for a few hours and then vote to acquit.  They may stretch it out a little longer so they can all get their photo-ops for the people back home, but they are not going to do a thorough investigation. 

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Spin Zone / Re: I hate libertarians
« on: November 14, 2019, 12:04:04 PM »


Canadian Libertarian, eh?  Cute!


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Spin Zone / Re: I hate libertarians
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:22:19 AM »
Curious why you didn’t vote for Simon’s R opponent.

Mind you, bizarre Rs do show up on ballots occasionally. My theory is that the weirdest of them are libertarians trying to pass themselves off as Republicans.

(Need to insert here again that I like Jim )
Honestly, I don’t recall any warts on the GOP candidate at the time. I was pretty anti-establishment back then (see my vote for Ross Perot above), and was looking for a decent person. I actually met him on the street one morning in Chicago as I was walking from Union Station to my office. It was in front of the Civic Opera House.  He didn’t have an entourage but had maybe one person with him. I just said “good morning Senator” as I waked past him, and he stopped to chat with me. It made an impression.

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Spin Zone / Re: I hate libertarians
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:15:41 AM »
There’s an interesting thought. It’s possible that a strengthened Republican Party, with the more appealing elements of libertarianism, might begin to catch on as being more true to our founding principles.

Trump reorienting Rs toward the working class is a good start. Many Republicans are also coming around to see the war on drugs is a failure and causing more harm than good, and criminal justice reform is no longer just a liberal cause. Also conservatives are becoming less willing to send kids to die in third world shit holes. These are all ways in which Rs are evolving toward erstwhile liberal and libertarian positions, however, it is essential the R party does not abandon free market economics, bringing us to.....

Quote
Again, though, we have to know the enemy. And the enemy (half the country) worships the ideal of a nanny state. I don’t see how we walk that back, until the starry-eyed nanny staters actually have to live under the nanny hammer and begin to envision something better.

Herein lies the great problem. Half the country now and possibly all the young generations henceforth, because our educational system is virtually 100% taken over by nanny staters. There is no possibility of reversing the headlong plunge into socialist collapse unless this changes. Same with mainstream media. But here is the thing about libertarians you don’t seem to recognize: they provide a pathway away from that, and such pathways are too rare and so precious where they exist. They are the tunnel through no man’s land between liberalism and conservatism.

It’s much easier to convince a liberal to consider learning something about libertarianism than it is to convince them to be open to reading or listening to conservatives. It’s well known that the best way to bring someone around to your point of view is to first find common ground. Too many liberals don’t know shit about economics. Get on their side with social issues, and that way you have their ear, then introduce them to free market concepts and the harm of economic collectivism.

This is probably the only true hope for libertarianism if it’s to help save our country, because it’s not going to save it by winning elections. And if it goes away (like you seem to want it to) convince me that conservatives and Republicans alone can win over the little miseducated kiddies, because I don’t see it.

I hear you about siphoning elections. But we are headed to socialism anyway. All the siphoning will do is get us there faster, but maybe the publicity will draw curious liberals - especially malleable youngsters - and maybe in the long run help draw people away from the far left.

We are in a situation now where Spock needs to jettison the fuel: Risk a faster orbit decay for a shot at saving ourselves.

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Spin Zone / Re: I hate libertarians
« on: November 06, 2019, 05:15:46 PM »
They split the vote, and siphon off votes that typically go to the conservative.   Kentucky Governor race is an example.  The Libertarian candidate siphoned off enough votes to throw the election to the democrat.

Ah - well it is good to know the Libertarians are actually doing that well. Of course the Republican candidate should have left the race to allow the Libertarian candidate to win.

Many people bitch about how the Republicans are indistinguishable from Democrats when it comes to government growth, but when a real alternative comes along the alternative is supposed to step aside in favor of the entrenched parties. Madness I say.

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Spin Zone / Liberal/Leftist Policies That are Beneficial for the Citizens
« on: October 31, 2019, 08:43:55 AM »
Sox came about after the collapse of Enron. A byproduct is that it collapsed one of the top 5 accounting firms, Arthur Andersen, putting 28,000 people out of work. That was a ridiculous price to pay for the malfeasance of a couple partners of the massive firm.

I was briefly in the SOX game at a previous firm, but I soon learned it was closer to mental masturbation than an actual “fix” to a  nominal problem.

By the way, as a competitor to Andersen, the CPA profession took no pleasure in seeing a competitor collapse. It was damaging to the entire profession.

10
Spin Zone / Re: Why I don't "believe" in science
« on: May 11, 2019, 12:09:38 PM »
That's an excellent article!  I might pick a nit with what he says about Kuhn, I've read Kuhn and I can talk about his philosophy; well he does say Kuhn is responsible for elevating consensus over science and if that is true that's not what Kuhn meant, but it wouldn't be the first time a wise person's words were completely twisted and misused.

I haven't read Kuhn in the original, but from what I have read *about* his work, I agree that reducing science to a matter of consensus appears to be a significant distortion of what Kuhn was all about. I'd also agree that that is a nit! ;)

I especially like Tracinski's example of plate tectonics vis. climate change, since PT was indeed a fringe theory for nearly 50 years because no one (before Harry Hess) could dream up a plausible mechanism for continental drift, and because critical evidence was lacking for whether it was actually happening. Dismissing CD was scientifically defensible until both of those factors changed. Similarly, there is sufficient evidence today for increasing greenhouse warming to justify the consensus belief - but that doesn't make it true, and the climate system is complex enough that people continue to debate about the relative magnitude of the greenhouse effect vs. aerosols vs. internal variability. The people for whom support for science is code for fighting climate change reduce a legitimate - and necessary - scientific debate to a purely political issue driven by competing philosophical and financial interests. That's about as anti-science an attitude as I can think of.

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Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
Ah yes, the single data point 3 days into the Presidency, lol.  I think I'll reserve any judgment on his impact in the financial markets for a good year or more, once the volatility from having a new President has worn off.  If he begins to institute import tariffs or screws up on the TransPac/NAFTA agreements, I have a feeling the DOW won't be painting nearly as rosy a picture.

And of course we know the big run up to 20,000 since Nov 9th was due to Obama.  ;)

12
My point was that if you have the option of being on welfare and not working, or working a minimum wage job for 40+ hours a week to be in the same (or worse) position financially when you add it all up, then why would anyone choose the latter?

1)Not really going to be able to play the self-respect card with people who have little concept of it in regards to working a minimum-wage job.  I know that feeling of respect, but I don't think it's something you can "sell" to those on welfare.

2)Those on welfare don't care if it's a drag on society, nor do they likely have any concept of it's impact on the government.  Most of them don't even make the link between working people's taxes paying for them to live for free.

3) I don't disagree on the concept, but convincing a welfare recipient to live on minimum wage without welfare assistance for the "work experience" is similar to convincing a lawyer to do pro bono work.

4) See answer #3 above. 

5) Absolutely, that goes with any job.  It's almost always easier to find a good job if you have one.

To summarize:  you have to remember that, by telling welfare recipients that a minimum wage job is better than welfare, you are going to have to convince them it's better.  I already know the benefits and satisfaction of doing honest labor and being self-sufficient/productive as I was raised to be so.  Those who have spent a lifetime in poverty, aren't likely to agree with you that it's better to work a minimum wage job so that they can earn the intangible benefits of self respect, valuable job experience, learning work ethic, or ease of finding a better job later on, when they'd still be in the same spot they're currently in while having to work much harder for it.
ok,in that context, I will agree with you.

For the individual, welfare might make more sense than a job.  But THAT is the whole crux of the problem.  As a society, we are purposely breeding a welfare class and that is destructive to society as a whole, and to the individual.

There are people that can't work a real job
 and there are people that won't work a real job as long as there is an easier alternative.

It is the latter that we have to deter and convince while still  helping the former.

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I'm no liberal, and that phrase has nothing to do with being a liberal.  It was a statement of fact about what would happen to low-income families if their welfare monies were suddenly reduced to the point that they can't afford food, rent, etc. 

I don't believe the changes should be sudden.  They need to be announced in advance and phased in.

But none of the suggestions so far will help at all if we don't fix our education system.  Public trade schools alone would do wonders.  Lowering the minimum wage for apprenticeships might help people get that first job and some job training.

14
that everyone grew up in an environment that fostered their ability to succeed.  In many of these lifetime welfare cases, these people have been surrounded by others who never escaped poverty, and know nothing other than welfare, drugs, and broken homes.  It's not like you and I, where if we were forced with a life on welfare, or pursuing a better job, we would have have the wherewithal to achieve the latter.  So, you provide them with a step-by-step plan that moves them along the road to getting themselves out of poverty.

I am just of the mentality that, with people in many of these situations, they just aren't motivated the same way you and I are.  Since they can't see past the next paycheck, you can't make them realize it's better on the other side.  As Becky mentioned, it's not a simple problem in the least, and it certainly won't be fixed with a simple answer or else it would have been implemented by now.

At one point in my life I thought everyone had opportunity, and that if you wanted something enough you'd work hard to get it.  I no longer believe this is the case.  As you say above, there are people that no nothing but poverty, and everyone around them only knows poverty.  They neither have hope for improvement nor a blueprint for how to achieve a better, self supporting life.  There are a few that beat the odds out of shear perseverance.  That is rare.  I believe most of the urban poor have given up.  There is no easy solution to this problem, but I know the current system isn't helping, it is hurting.     

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So why is a minimum wage job a better option than being on welfare? Either way you're poor and only have enough money to live paycheck to paycheck.  So how do you walk back welfare benefits to a point so low that you can't possibly live on it (defeats the entire purpose of welfare), but not so low as to be seen as throwing people and their families onto the street? 

It's just not a matter of "reducing benefits".  If there are no decent jobs, or you have no employable skill set, you will just end up with people in more squalor than they were on welfare.  If it gets reduced enough, people will resort to crime in order to make ends meet.  If you aren't willing to admit that the only real way to get people off of welfare is to help lift them out of poverty,then there really isn't any more to discuss.  Taking away sugary drinks from people doesn't make them want to get a job.

Most people agree that is the answer. It is the "how" that gets lost in political posturing and stupid policies.

Look. However it is done, it will hurt for a while. But building a fence at the edge of the cliff is always going to be a better solution than building a hospital at the bottom of the cliff.

Some very sharp minds and hard workers are coming into the government right now. I would not be surprised to see some innovative solutions coming forth, for this and other problems.

But there will be pain. That's why it hasn't been done already.

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