Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 09:42:44 AM
From the article:
Keep in mind that Donald J. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David the week of Sept. 11 to strike what was essentially a surrender deal, but cancelled after the obvious backlash of hosting the Taliban on 9/11. Instead, he sent Pompeo to Qatar to sign the deal with the Taliban, and announced that he had given the Taliban everything they asked for because “everyone is tired of war.”
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 16, 2021, 09:47:55 AM
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 09:50:39 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
Okay, School me. What's wrong with them?
Far left leaning website. Basically garbage reporting for low information types.
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 09:54:08 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 09:58:57 AM
Is the article proferring a false narrative based on fictional facts?
Do some research on it. It's a twisted narrative.
Over the next 48 hours we will see an avalanche of this type fake news as the MSM and BIG Tech in conjunction with the Democrat Communist try in desperation to divert attention away from a colossal failure of the Biden Administration.
Post by: Username on August 16, 2021, 09:59:29 AM
Is the article proferring a false narrative based on fictional facts?No, a false narrative (spin) based on actual facts.
Post by: Username on August 16, 2021, 10:21:15 AM
Quote
Trump even had private discussions with the top Taliban leader, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. I could only imagine what was said and promised.
Biden had six months to back out of whatever agreement Trump made with the Taliban, if any. Biden wiped out most of Trump's executive orders, so why stick with it? If it went OK, then Biden gets all the credit. Now that it went bad he can blame Trump. Despite a month ago saying that everything was under control and Afghanistan is in great shape.
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
Does that relieve the Biden administration from the guilt of fucking up the withdrawal? Was the treaty that Trump brokered the only thing he did that Biden was unable to reverse?
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
So you're saying that we should never negotiate with our enemies? But beyond that, the author of your article has no idea what was going on, and has only speculation:Beat me by "thiiiis much".
Biden had six months to back out of whatever agreement Trump made with the Taliban, if any. Biden wiped out most of Trump's executive orders, so why stick with it? If it went OK, then Biden gets all the credit. Now that it went bad he can blame Trump. Despite a month ago saying that everything was under control and Afghanistan is in great shape.
Post by: Username on August 16, 2021, 10:27:44 AM
Beat me by "thiiiis much".You said it much better than I did :)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 16, 2021, 10:33:49 AM
Now we have a shit show going on. The Taliban has taken control of the country. We are begging them to let us get our people out. Afghan citizens have flooded the airport, the only airport available to us that has exactly one runway that must handle very large, very heavy military transports. Afghan citizens are blocking that runway at this point and will need to be cleared before operations can be resumed. How long before the Taliban says, "fuck this" we want to some American heads? Maybe soon or maybe not at all, time will tell.
What do I expect to hear from President Biden? That he was just following Trumps plan and that plan was flawed so it is not his fault. Ask your self this, did the follow Trumps plan for border security, how Trumps plan for the pipelines? Have they followed any of Trumps plans? The answer is not no but hell no, they wouldn't follow any of Trumps plans if their lives depended on it. To do so would be to adit that Trump had any good ideas. If you believe they just followed Trumps plan, I have a bridge to sell you.
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 11:13:07 AM
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 11:48:00 AM
I agree that it is beneath the dignity of any office to blame the prior holder of said office.
My understanding is Trump brokered a deal to leave by a certain date, and all parties agreed to the date and the conditions (who has what territory) then Biden canceled it, this pissed off the Taliban (rightly so, because word of honor is important) and so the Taliban went around to all the warlords telling them the U.S. went back on its word, and since the U.S. didn’t hold up their end, we shouldn’t either and that’s what got the warlords stirred up and able to recruit a bunch of new fighters also pissed that the U.S. broke their promise.
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 11:52:33 AM
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 11:55:54 AM
At what point did the Afghan government ask the US to honor the schedule? Is this why they overthrew the government or was it because it was always a puppet regime?
It was, but then so is Biden.
Post by: bflynn on August 16, 2021, 11:57:11 AM
Anyone want to bet Biden does this?
Post by: Number7 on August 16, 2021, 12:09:39 PM
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/15/2046070/-Taliban-leader-and-top-commanders-are-among-the-5000-fighters-Trump-released-against-objections?fbclid=IwAR3TYj9EW4FUtIw67gEXVDe8cHaMRFFM-8MxzNUtlxv-44KHTIlCVS5bxKA (https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/15/2046070/-Taliban-leader-and-top-commanders-are-among-the-5000-fighters-Trump-released-against-objections?fbclid=IwAR3TYj9EW4FUtIw67gEXVDe8cHaMRFFM-8MxzNUtlxv-44KHTIlCVS5bxKA)
From the article:
Keep in mind that Donald J. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David the week of Sept. 11 to strike what was essentially a surrender deal, but cancelled after the obvious backlash of hosting the Taliban on 9/11. Instead, he sent Pompeo to Qatar to sign the deal with the Taliban, and announced that he had given the Taliban everything they asked for because “everyone is tired of war.”
I don't know how anyone could find a less authentic source.
Maybe Pravda, but I doubt it.
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2021, 12:13:53 PM
There is one solution, but I doubt Biden...errr, Biden's puppet masters will make use of it. We should send in 20,000 troops immediately and stabilize the situation and then begin an orderly evacuation.I disagree vehemently.
Anyone want to bet Biden does this?
We should station one or two naval fleets in the Indian Ocean, stage a bunch of B52s and B2 Bombers in the area and threaten the shit out of the Taliban if they interfere with our withdrawal in any way. A10s (if we still have any) and waves of Predators can escort caravans of our troops and civilians and any Afghans that we choose as they make their way to the airport. Once we have completely left the country, with our tail between our legs, we tell the Taliban that Afghanistan is there problem now.
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 12:21:11 PM
Start threatening them with a bombing campaign, or a drone assaults campaign and they will put Americans and other foreigners in strategic locations.
Biden and Team have no good way out of this, period. A colossal failure. He'll be along shortly in a lame attempt to blame all of this on Trump.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
So you're saying that we should never negotiate with our enemies? But beyond that, the author of your article has no idea what was going on, and has only speculation:^^^This^^^
Biden had six months to back out of whatever agreement Trump made with the Taliban, if any. Biden wiped out most of Trump's executive orders, so why stick with it? If it went OK, then Biden gets all the credit. Now that it went bad he can blame Trump. Despite a month ago saying that everything was under control and Afghanistan is in great shape.
Jaybird, you’re on the wrong side of the argument once again. When an article says the meeting at camp david was “essentially a surrender agreement”, the authors essentially don’t have any clue what they are talking about.
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
His whole speech is just arguing that we shouldn’t stay. TOTALLY missing the point that we should have left even earlier and would have if not for HIM.
Haha! He says we will continue to speak out for women’s rights.
He gonna send 6000 troops in to get our civilians out.
He’s warning the Taliban if they attack those troops we will respond and then “conclude our military withdrawal”.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2021, 01:34:26 PM
Wow! Biden is throwing the Afghan army under the bus.The Afghan Army SHOULD be thrown under the bus; they chose to run away instead of defending THEIR country from terrorists. Fuck em.
His whole speech is just arguing that we shouldn’t stay. TOTALLY missing the point that we should have left even earlier and would have if not for HIM.
Haha! He says we will continue to speak out for women’s rights.
He gonna send 6000 troops in to get our civilians out.
He’s warning the Taliban if they attack those troops we will respond and then “conclude our military withdrawal”.
But also, his blame game is pathetic. This is HIS Saigon.
Is it me, or did he sound like Foster Brooks?
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 01:36:09 PM
The Afghan Army SHOULD be thrown under the bus; they chose to run away instead of defending THEIR country from terrorists. Fuck em.
But also, his blame game is pathetic. This is HIS Saigon.
Is it me, or did he sound like Foster Brooks?
Foster Brooks was way more coherent.
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
The Afghan Army SHOULD be thrown under the bus; they chose to run away instead of defending THEIR country from terrorists. Fuck em.
But also, his blame game is pathetic. This is HIS Saigon.
Is it me, or did he sound like Foster Brooks?
They fought when they had U.S. air and intel support. When we withdrew that they couldn’t.
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
They fought when they had U.S. air and intel support. When we withdrew that they couldn’t.I guess the Talaban had a better air force than the one we gave the government troops.
Oh wait!
Stan and Biden are right. The Afghan army, and their fleeing politicians, should be thrown under the bus. I'm happy Biden did it.
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 02:12:19 PM
But he doesn't, and they believed their own bullshit and lies. People on the ground in Afghanistan knew what was coming and what would happen, but they were ignored because they were not of the elite.
Hillary Clinton as SoS pulled the same stupid shit in Libya. These assclowns will never learn.
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 02:14:16 PM
I guess the Talaban had a better air force than the one we gave the government troops.
Oh wait!
Stan and Biden are right. The Afghan army, and their fleeing politicians, should be thrown under the bus. I'm happy Biden did it.
My point is, he didn’t take any responsibility himself, although I was surprised he didn’t specifically blame Trump (unless I missed it) he very vaguely sidestepped the issue of not complying with Trump’s negotiated May 1 date. No, saying “the buck stops here” doesn’t count as taking responsibility. Plenty of the Afghan military have died fighting the Taliban and I found it pretty slimy of Biden to put the blame for this clusterfuck on them.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2021, 02:21:32 PM
They fought when they had U.S. air and intel support. When we withdrew that they couldn’t.The Taliban don’t have air support. You would think a 300,000 person army would have more than two testicles among them.
I think they could fight back if they wanted to. Instead, I saw military-aged men at the airport trying to evacuate their country, leaving their women to the Taliban.
I’m guessing your husband, or any other man you know, would not allow that to happen to you.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2021, 02:23:30 PM
I guess the Talaban had a better air force than the one we gave the government troops.Please don’t ever say something like they again. I almost threw up in my mouth.
Oh wait!
Stan and Biden are right. The Afghan army, and their fleeing politicians, should be thrown under the bus. I'm happy Biden did it.
That being said, Biden abdicated all responsibility for his Saigon, and blamed EVERYONE but himself or his cabinet. Fucking loser.
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
. Instead, I saw military-aged men at the airport trying to evacuate their country, leaving their women to the Taliban.Then again, they look at women as chattel. I might be tempted to leave my horse behind if I was facing beheading.
I’m guessing your husband, or any other man you know, would not allow that to happen to you.
And we were fighting and dying for these people.
I hope that as a nation, we have learned our lesson about getting involved in other countries politics. We were justified going in to remove Al Queda and going after Bin Laden. the mission should have ended then.
As to us providing them air support, that was true in the beginning. But we also gave them an air force and trained them to fly. They actually flew most of the close air support for the past few years, as long as we were there to pay their salaries and pay for upkeep of their airplanes and provide ongoing training. I wonder what is going to happen to that air force now.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2021, 02:41:17 PM
Then again, they look at women as chattel. I might be tempted to leave my horse behind if I was facing beheading.They are probably going to Iran as we speak.
And we were fighting and dying for these people.
I hope that as a nation, we have learned our lesson about getting involved in other countries politics. We were justified going in to remove Al Queda and going after Bin Laden. the mission should have ended then.
As to us providing them air support, that was true in the beginning. But we also gave them an air force and trained them to fly. They actually flew most of the close air support for the past few years, as long as we were there to pay their salaries and pay for upkeep of their airplanes and provide ongoing training. I wonder what is going to happen to that air force now.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9893929/Taliban-fighters-control-skies-Afghanistan-seizing-mi-17-helicopters.html
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 16, 2021, 05:06:36 PM
My understanding is Trump brokered a deal to leave by a certain date, and all parties agreed to the date and the conditions (who has what territory) then Biden canceled it, this pissed off the Taliban (rightly so, because word of honor is important) and so the Taliban went around to all the warlords telling them the U.S. went back on its word, and since the U.S. didn’t hold up their end, we shouldn’t either and that’s what got the warlords stirred up and able to recruit a bunch of new fighters also pissed that the U.S. broke their promise.
DING DING DING!
CORRECT!
Here's a news story from April 14 that explains the Taliban response to the Biden administration's delay of the Trump administration's negotiated withdrawal:
From: https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-promises-nightmare-u-troops-181109602.html (https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-promises-nightmare-u-troops-181109602.html)
Quote
Taliban Promises ‘Nightmare’ for U.S. Troops in Final Afghanistan Stretch
Ruchi Kumar, Sami Yousafzai
April 14, 2021
The Taliban never kept secret what their reaction would be if the Biden administration delays the withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan, and now that it’s happened, U.S. forces may have to deal with a new, unbridled wave of violence and bloodshed in the months leading up to the new September pull-out deadline.
Hours after news broke on Tuesday that following a “rigorous policy review,” President Joe Biden is planning to have all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan by Sept. 11—a break away from the previously agreed May 1 deadline—Taliban military leaders sat down for a policy review of their own. The group then announced it would be boycotting peace talks unless “all foreign forces completely withdraw from our homeland.”
Speaking to The Daily Beast on Wednesday, Mullah Salih Khan, a Taliban group commander from Afghanistan’s Helmand Province, said that the insurgent group is “very much prepared to strike,” against U.S. and Afghan government forces, warning that the militants will turn Afghanistan “into a nightmare” for them.
Mullah Mujahid Rahman, a Taliban subcommander from the Ghazni province, added that the U.S. has “proven they can’t be trusted after retreating from the May 1 deadline,” and that the group is willing to “fight till the end” of the U.S. presence in Afghanistan.
“We have the pride of defeating about 100,000 invaders from [different] countries in Afghanistan. A few thousand won’t be a problem at all,” he said, referring to the 3,500 American troops still stationed in the country.
Experts say this reaction shouldn’t come as a surprise.
“Afghanistan will likely see an unrestricted fighting season, with attacks on Afghan provincial capitals as well as against foreign forces,” Andrew Watkins, Crisis Group's Senior Analyst for Afghanistan, told The Daily Beast. “It is hard to say if the talks have been entirely halted, but it’s also difficult to see any reason for the Taliban to continue, if, as they seem to suggest so far, the Doha deal has been broken by the U.S.”
There were signs of the violence-to-come even before U.S. officials shared news of the extended deadline, when rumors of a seemingly inevitable delay were swirling both domestically and abroad.
Most dramatic among them was one video shared across their social media platforms last week, portraying what appears to be the Taliban’s training facility, somewhere between the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The 50-second clip, made in English for the benefit of international parties, shows an assortment of 50 odd young men—part of the Taliban’s martyrdom-seeking forces of suicide bombers and fighters—dressed in military fatigues and with their faces covered.
Wearing a jacket with the initials “I.E.A”, an acronym for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan—the Taliban’s self-given name—one of them issues a warning against the Americans: “God willing, if they do not abide by the agreement they will be responsible for the killing in the next war,” he said, adding that the martyrdom forces are “waiting the order of the Emir and the establishment of the Islamic system all around the world.”
“It seems clear from the Taliban’s response that even if they privately celebrate the news of a U.S. withdrawal, the primary mood is mistrust, and they reject the announcement as an abrogation of the U.S.-Taliban deal,” said Watkins, adding that while the Taliban may resume talks with Americans, “there is very little chance of the Taliban committing to real compromise in peace talks with other Afghan stakeholders.”
Other stakeholders believe that the seeming disintegration of the peace process might not entirely be on Biden, but can also be attributed to developing fractures within the Taliban’s insurgency.
“Not all of the Taliban have been in favor of power-sharing, inclusive governments. Many among them want a monopoly over everything,” Rahmatullah Nabil, a former Afghan spy chief, told The Daily Beast.
He was referring to the many recent proposals made public that detail a potential deal between the Taliban and the Afghan government. One such proposal from the U.S. recommended a power-sharing agreement between the warring parties and has been criticized by the members of the U.S. Congress.
Nabil continues to maintain strong intelligence networks and had previously warned of the Taliban’s lack of commitment to the process and the U.S.-facilitated deal, which seems to have emboldened the insurgent group.
“The Taliban is consulting with their leaders in Pakistan… but with no actual pressure on the Taliban’s main backers like the Pakistani military and ISI, we will plunge into another crisis if the peace process collapses and Americans withdraw,” he warned.
Hekmatullah Azamy, deputy director of the Centre for Conflict and Peace Studies, an Afghan think tank closely observing the political and security developments, gave a similar assessment.
“The Taliban’s military wing feels compelled to teach the Americans a lesson for not abiding with their promised deadline, and as such, they will restart the violence. Unfortunately, the political wing that is conducting the negotiations is unable to convince them otherwise,” Azamy told The Daily Beast.
In any case, an increase in violence seems inevitable.
“Such units are already prepared for battle,” Azamy said, referring to the information gathered by his organization. “They understand that it won’t be easy, and the U.S. is fully equipped to respond to their attacks. But many among them are willing to engage in conflict anyway.”
Meanwhile, Afghan government officials are opting to remain optimistic, as the U.S.’s extended stay in Afghanistan gives them a little more time to develop diplomatic and political pressure on the Taliban to agree to a possible ceasefire.
“I think the U.S.’s extension on troop withdrawal could be a good thing for Afghanistan. It will force the Taliban to reconsider their stance,” a senior Afghan security official told The Daily Beast. But the official was less certain that the Taliban would actually escalate violence against the U.S. right away: “They have gained so much, it is unlikely that they will risk it all,” he said.
Some in the Taliban, however, continue to promise otherwise.
“We never paused our Jihad after the U.S.-Taliban deal,” said Mullah Salih Khan, one of the Taliban commanders who spoke to The Daily Beast. “There is nothing for the Taliban to lose, but the puppet Afghan government will lose everything.”
Post by: Number7 on August 16, 2021, 05:06:54 PM
Had Biden had competent military advisors, and a competent staff of advisors, plus competent Intelligence experts, this would have been different.
But he doesn't, and they believed their own bullshit and lies. People on the ground in Afghanistan knew what was coming and what would happen, but they were ignored because they were not of the elite.
Hillary Clinton as SoS pulled the same stupid shit in Libya. These assclowns will never learn.
They never learn because they have no fucking idea how to lead.
Other than protest and feel offended by tweets, these cunts have nothing to offer.
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 05:43:59 PM
There is one solution, but I doubt Biden...errr, Biden's puppet masters will make use of it. We should send in 20,000 troops immediately and stabilize the situation and then begin an orderly evacuation.What does this look like, Mr. Citizen?
Anyone want to bet Biden does this?
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 05:46:55 PM
Wow! Biden is throwing the Afghan army under the bus.What commander removes military assets before evacuating civilians? This makes no sense to me, EXCEPT as a prelude to a pointless expansion.
His whole speech is just arguing that we shouldn’t stay. TOTALLY missing the point that we should have left even earlier and would have if not for HIM.
Haha! He says we will continue to speak out for women’s rights.
He gonna send 6000 troops in to get our civilians out.
He’s warning the Taliban if they attack those troops we will respond and then “conclude our military withdrawal”.
I guess we need something to take our minds off the pandemic, but geez, choose something better.
Post by: Jaybird180 on August 16, 2021, 05:51:13 PM
Afghanistan: 5
Everyone else: 0
(cynical humor)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 16, 2021, 05:55:21 PM
What's the score now?
Afghanistan: 5
Everyone else: 0
(cynical humor)
Afghanistan hasn't won.
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 06:33:51 PM
What commander removes military assets before evacuating civilians? This makes no sense to me, EXCEPT as a prelude to a pointless expansion.
I guess we need something to take our minds off the pandemic, but geez, choose something better.
That’s what has been nagging at the back of my mind all day! The more Biden kept saying he was ending the war and would not let a fifth president have to deal with it, the more uncomfortable I got, like, why am I doubting what he’s saying? And now you’ve made it come to the front on my mind. What if he gets us back into it.
Post by: Lucifer on August 16, 2021, 06:40:38 PM
That’s what has been nagging at the back of my mind all day! The more Biden kept saying he was ending the war and would not let a fifth president have to deal with it, the more uncomfortable I got, like, why am I doubting what he’s saying? And now you’ve made it come to the front on my mind. What if he gets us back into it.
He won't, the Chinese won't let him.
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2021, 07:06:27 PM
The Taliban don’t have air support. You would think a 300,000 person army would have more than two testicles among them.
I think they could fight back if they wanted to. Instead, I saw military-aged men at the airport trying to evacuate their country, leaving their women to the Taliban.
I’m guessing your husband, or any other man you know, would not allow that to happen to you.
What the rank and file were facing was not the well equipped 300,000 person army the news would have you believe. It’s coming out that those numbers were inflated. There was corruption among the officials who took salaries for “ghost” soldiers, and who did not pay the real ones. There were food shortages. There were threats and propaganda from the Taliban who also started finding and executing the most trained among them well before the surge started. There was very low morale. This opposed to the well motivated guerrillas of the Taliban. We, the American public, have been misled because our billions of tax dollars were funding it.
Each one of them is facing certain execution probably not quick and painless. It’s a rare person with enough balls to face that certainty by yourself when all those around you are fleeing. The failure was the leadership in the military and the politicians. You can criticize the soldiers for lack of balls, go ahead, but it pissed me off when Biden, more filthy and corrupt than all <300,000 of the rank and file soldiers in Afghanistan put together, accuses them of cowardice from the comfort of the White House.
Post by: nddons on August 17, 2021, 08:19:52 AM
What the rank and file were facing was not the well equipped 300,000 person army the news would have you believe. It’s coming out that those numbers were inflated. There was corruption among the officials who took salaries for “ghost” soldiers, and who did not pay the real ones. There were food shortages. There were threats and propaganda from the Taliban who also started finding and executing the most trained among them well before the surge started. There was very low morale. This opposed to the well motivated guerrillas of the Taliban. We, the American public, have been misled because our billions of tax dollars were funding it.I don’t disagree with what you said at all, and our positions aren’t mutually exclusive. I agree, Biden’s lack of taking responsibility was astounding.
Each one of them is facing certain execution probably not quick and painless. It’s a rare person with enough balls to face that certainty by yourself when all those around you are fleeing. The failure was the leadership in the military and the politicians. You can criticize the soldiers for lack of balls, go ahead, but it pissed me off when Biden, more filthy and corrupt than all <300,000 of the rank and file soldiers in Afghanistan put together, accuses them of cowardice from the comfort of the White House.
The Green Beret, Rangers and other SF types’ main jobs are to build the resistance within the countries. They armed and trained the Montagnards in Vietnam, for example, and they turned out to be proud warriors.
I don’t know what it is about the Middle East man, however. The Iraq military nearly folded and lost to ISIS before Trump put the screws to them.
Maybe we as a nation have learned a valuable lesson. Some people would rather be subjects and captives than carry the burden of freedom.
Fuck em all.
Post by: Rush on August 17, 2021, 08:45:32 AM
I don’t disagree with what you said at all, and our positions aren’t mutually exclusive. I agree, Biden’s lack of taking responsibility was astounding.
The Green Beret, Rangers and other SF types’ main jobs are to build the resistance within the countries. They armed and trained the Montagnards in Vietnam, for example, and they turned out to be proud warriors.
I don’t know what it is about the Middle East man, however. The Iraq military nearly folded and lost to ISIS before Trump put the screws to them.
Maybe we as a nation have learned a valuable lesson. Some people would rather be subjects and captives than carry the burden of freedom.
Fuck em all.
But Little Joe said you and Biden agreed and it almost made you throw up. I guess seeing your name and Biden’s juxtaposed was too much. ;D
How about all three: Stan, Biden, and Little Joe are all okay throwing the Afghan military under the bus.
I understand what you are saying and I know we agree more than disagree. Unless you’ve been there, and I haven’t, we can’t know what they’re dealing with. Basic things such as climate and terrain might be behind people’s behavior. For example food availability seems to be an issue in Afghanistan, maybe not so much in the jungles of SE Asia. Many Middle East men look on the edge of starvation. Gaunt faces, very skinny. They say an army moves on its stomach. Paychecks equal food. If corrupt officers were withholding pay, that alone would cause them to desert or not feel up to fighting.
The Middle East seems stuck in tribalism for whatever reason (climate and terrain? Genetically they’re descended from nomads and just haven’t outgrown it?) and that makes you more loyal to a tribe than to a centralized government so an Afghanistan state was doomed from the start, and the Taliban is essentially a warring tribe. It can be hard or impossible on the individual level to fight the system in place.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on August 17, 2021, 09:18:22 AM
Maybe we as a nation have learned a valuable lesson. Some people would rather be subjects and captives than carry the burden of freedom.
We don't need to look offshore to see that.
Post by: nddons on August 17, 2021, 10:26:41 AM
We don't need to look offshore to see that.Boy, ain’t that the truth.
Post by: Rush on August 17, 2021, 10:31:18 AM
Boy, ain’t that the truth.
Yup.
Post by: Anthony on August 17, 2021, 11:17:19 AM
We don't need to look offshore to see that.
When you're own DHS defines what at least half the country thinks and says a Domestic Terrorism threat and calls White Supremacists the number 1 terrorist threat you know we are living in an oppressive, police state that willfully ignores the Constitution and other laws to install their Fasco-Communist agenda.
Post by: Steingar on August 18, 2021, 07:29:45 AM
I can only hope that 20 years out of power has tempered the Taliban some. It sounds like it might have, I think they've realized that they really can't be a pariah state. Might curb some of their worst instincts. Might not.
Oh, they emptied all the jails. Some of those guys were Taliban fighters. Some of them were criminals, murderers and thieves and whatnot. Way to go Taliban! Afghanistan is their mess now. Good fucking riddance.
Post by: nddons on August 18, 2021, 07:53:28 AM
This one is on Biden. That said, there was no way out withdrawal wasn't going to be pandemonium, and yes we should have done it far sooner. Obama should have done it. Trump should have done it. The one thing I would like to have seen would have been us quietly spiriting out our allies (all those guys who helped us over the years) before the collapse.You would have thought that the Army War College, West Point, the US Air Force Academy, and the Naval Academy might have had a text book or history book describing how a withdrawal should happen; perhaps one they had a picture of the helicopter on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, for example.
I can only hope that 20 years out of power has tempered the Taliban some. It sounds like it might have, I think they've realized that they really can't be a pariah state. Might curb some of their worst instincts. Might not.
Oh, they emptied all the jails. Some of those guys were Taliban fighters. Some of them were criminals, murderers and thieves and whatnot. Way to go Taliban! Afghanistan is their mess now. Good fucking riddance.
You would have thought one or more of those generals or admirals would have pulled those old dusty text books and binders off their shelf and looked at them over the last 20 years.
You would have thought one of those generals or admirals would have advised their superiors in their chain of command to say, “Hey, just FYI, pulling the military out without getting Americans out and without withdrawing our weapons and assets may not be a good thing to do.”
You would have thought one of those superiors would have gone to the SecDef to advise him and the president of the same.
You would have thought.
Post by: Little Joe on August 18, 2021, 07:53:53 AM
This one is on Biden. That said, there was no way out withdrawal wasn't going to be pandemonium,There can be problems and there can be huge problems. Yes, there were going to be logistical problems surrounding any sort of withdrawal plan. But I would be hard pressed to figure out a withdrawal process plan that could have been any worse. As you said, this is on Biden. Even his advisors have said he failed to heed recommendations because he wanted it done NOW.
Post by: Anthony on August 18, 2021, 08:01:02 AM
You would have thought that the Army War College, West Point, the US Air Force Academy, and the Naval Academy might have had a text book or history book describing how a withdrawal should happen; perhaps one they had a picture of the helicopter on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, for example.
You would have thought one or more of those generals or admirals would have pulled those old dusty text books and binders off their shelf and looked at them over the last 20 years.
You would have thought one of those generals or admirals would have advised their superiors in their chain of command to say, “Hey, just FYI, pulling the military out without getting Americans out and without withdrawing our weapons and assets may not be a good thing to do.”
You would have thought one of those superiors would have gone to the SecDef to advise him and the president of the same.
You would have thought.
Exactly. There are planned, orderly, systematic, gradual ways to withdrawal. That was what Trump was trying to do and his own Party and the Democrats stopped him because they are bought and paid for by the MIC. BOTH PARTIES. Biden has a majority, a cooperative MEDIA and other factors that could have enabled him to do a proper withdrawal but no. This entire Admin is INCOMPETENT. They can only do corrupt politics not ADMINISTRATION including running and managing things that are critical.
Post by: Rush on August 18, 2021, 08:07:05 AM
This one is on Biden. That said, there was no way out withdrawal wasn't going to be pandemonium, and yes we should have done it far sooner. Obama should have done it. Trump should have done it. The one thing I would like to have seen would have been us quietly spiriting out our allies (all those guys who helped us over the years) before the collapse.
I can only hope that 20 years out of power has tempered the Taliban some. It sounds like it might have, I think they've realized that they really can't be a pariah state. Might curb some of their worst instincts. Might not.
Oh, they emptied all the jails. Some of those guys were Taliban fighters. Some of them were criminals, murderers and thieves and whatnot. Way to go Taliban! Afghanistan is their mess now. Good fucking riddance.
I’m thinking if Trump had been reinaugurated, no doubt he would have stuck to the original deal. He would have been quietly removing the Americans and the military equipment prior to the May 1 deadline. The Taliban would not have been able to claim the U.S. broke the deal first and used that to stir up rage and recruit fighters. I believe that eventually we may have had the same result but it would not have happened this swiftly and it might have taken months or years before they got to Kabul, and, our people would have been already gone, and we wouldn’t have left them our hardware. Of course I can’t prove Trump would have done it that way. But in Trump’s reign nothing like this happened and since Biden it’s all falling apart. If no other reason, the world sees how weak Biden is, and that is emboldening them all (China, etc.). Trump may not have been liked by other heads of state but he was respected for standing up to them. Biden is like an empty shell with nobody home, nobody in charge, and the administration is out of control of everything.
PS just read Anthony’s post. Maybe Trump wouldn’t have been able to get them out early because of uncooperative MIC. I don’t know enough about it.
Post by: Username on August 18, 2021, 08:08:27 AM
You would have thought that the Army War College, West Point, the US Air Force Academy, and the Naval Academy might have had a text book or history book describing how a withdrawal should happen; perhaps one they had a picture of the helicopter on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, for example.Maybe, but I don't think so. The military is built to go in and kick ass. Plenty of books on how to do that. But once the ass kicking is done, it's up to the political class to figure out how to disengage. Viet Nam wasn't a failure on the part of the military, it was a political failure. Same as Afghanistan. The military did a great job there. They kicked ass when the ass needed kicking. Trump had a plan for getting out. Biden fucked that up because that's what he does. If there's wrong way to do something, you can count on him to do it that way.
Post by: jb1842 on August 18, 2021, 08:28:29 AM
You would have thought that the Army War College, West Point, the US Air Force Academy, and the Naval Academy might have had a text book or history book describing how a withdrawal should happen; perhaps one they had a picture of the helicopter on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon, for example.
You would have thought one or more of those generals or admirals would have pulled those old dusty text books and binders off their shelf and looked at them over the last 20 years.
You would have thought one of those generals or admirals would have advised their superiors in their chain of command to say, “Hey, just FYI, pulling the military out without getting Americans out and without withdrawing our weapons and assets may not be a good thing to do.”
You would have thought one of those superiors would have gone to the SecDef to advise him and the president of the same.
You would have thought.
You don't get that many stars by not knowing how to play the game. They are nothing more than lap dogs now, doing what they are told and not rocking the boat.
Post by: Rush on August 18, 2021, 09:15:03 AM
Maybe, but I don't think so. The military is built to go in and kick ass. Plenty of books on how to do that. But once the ass kicking is done, it's up to the political class to figure out how to disengage. Viet Nam wasn't a failure on the part of the military, it was a political failure. Same as Afghanistan. The military did a great job there. They kicked ass when the ass needed kicking. Trump had a plan for getting out. Biden fucked that up because that's what he does. If there's wrong way to do something, you can count on him to do it that way.
Listening to a bunch of Vietnam vet memoirs, they were hampered by politicians in DC limiting the ROE. We should never go to war unless we go all in to WIN. Same with Afghanistan, we should have nuked their mountain hideaways. Or not gone at all.
Post by: Lucifer on August 18, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
Listening to a bunch of Vietnam vet memoirs, they were hampered by politicians in DC limiting the ROE. We should never go to war unless we go all in to WIN. Same with Afghanistan, we should have nuked their mountain hideaways. Or not gone at all.
VietNam was what Eisenhower warned u about the MIC. It was at the end of WW2 and Korea when the MIC figured out just how profitable war was (for them) and endless "conflicts" meant a river of money for them.
When most senior military leave the ranks they get very lucrative jobs with defense contractors. Follow the money.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 18, 2021, 09:48:28 AM
Post by: jb1842 on August 18, 2021, 10:34:24 AM
Post by: Little Joe on August 18, 2021, 10:36:35 AM
And why the fuck did we abandon all the weaponry and ammo, including a modern air force and artillery and tons of explosives. That stuff should have been rounded up and detonated with a missile. They would have heard that explosion in Tehran.
Post by: Lucifer on August 18, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
And why the fuck did we abandon all the weaponry and ammo, including a modern air force and artillery and tons of explosives. That stuff should have been rounded up and detonated with a missile. They would have heard that explosion in Tehran.
"Alex, I'll take "Biden is an incompetent moron" for $500"
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on August 18, 2021, 10:50:25 AM
There is a huge difference between retreating while under attack by superior forces and what we are seeing here. We had the superior force. We made the decision to withdraw for reasons other than being defeated. This could have been planned and executed in a much more orderly fashion. This was not inevitable or unavoidable.
And why the fuck did we abandon all the weaponry and ammo, including a modern air force and artillery and tons of explosives. That stuff should have been rounded up and detonated with a missile. They would have heard that explosion in Tehran.
We could take out the entire Taliban leadership with one Tomahawk aimed at the former embassy.
Post by: Steingar on August 18, 2021, 12:19:11 PM
We could take out the entire Taliban leadership with one Tomahawk aimed at the former embassy.And with that we kill the sane ones, so the insane ones can take over. There are more. There are always more. Like I said, good fucking riddance.
Post by: Number7 on August 18, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
If they were sane they wouldn't be torturing women for being seen in public and going door to door murdering people becsuse they can.
Drop a fucking daisy cutter on the embassy and make sure to carpet bomb all their other locations.
Post by: Number7 on August 18, 2021, 06:50:55 PM
There can be problems and there can be huge problems. Yes, there were going to be logistical problems surrounding any sort of withdrawal plan. But I would be hard pressed to figure out a withdrawal process plan that could have been any worse. As you said, this is on Biden. Even his advisors have said he failed to heed recommendations because he wanted it done NOW.
With Miley and the senile imposter in charge, this IS the best possible result.
|Any other outcome would be far worse.
Don't rule out another decade long greound war, reclaiming the ground senile one gave up with the witless assistance of that fucking asshole miley.