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Messages - Little Joe

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7606
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 05:26:02 PM »
How is that not conservative?
I used the words "give" and "free" more than once.

And I didn't even address the situation with the invalids and incapacitated, which would need to be addressed.

7607
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 04:18:50 PM »
Sounds great. Let's hear more than platitudes and moral lectures.
I've mentioned my ideas a couple of times, and nobody commented except for Dave to tell me that I will lose my conservative creds.

In a nutshell,
1. do not give poor people money or food stamps.
2. Do give them food, basic shelter, education and child care if they have a job. Also provide free birth control.
3. Do not try to make them "comfortable" in their poverty.  Emphasize that if they want nice things they have to work for it.

7608
Spin Zone / Re: Who would your grandmother vote for?
« on: March 20, 2016, 01:25:07 PM »
My grandmother voted for whoever my grandfather told her to.

7609
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 09:51:21 AM »
That does seem to be the case. With conservatives it seems to be an all or nothing proposition. You're either with them, or you're against them. If you disagree with one of the conservative platforms, your are then labeled a liberal. So yeah, a lot of people look liberal to a true conservative that would never consider themselves a liberal.
But then it's the liberals that think that if you are against illegal immigration, you
hate  all immigrants.
And it is the liberals that think that if you want to reduce regulations, you are promoting anarchy.
and it is the liberals that if you are for reducing welfare, you want kids and old people to starve to death.
And it is the liberals that think that if you want to reduce tax rates that you want tax revenue to go down.
And it is liberals that think trying to keep radical Muslim terrorists out of the country means you hate all Muslims.

7610
Spin Zone / Re: General Election Prediction
« on: March 20, 2016, 09:41:08 AM »
Wow.
The anti-Trump conspirators are pulling out all the stops, aren't' they?
you can feel the panic.

7611
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 08:27:03 AM »
Believe the reverse is also true!  ;D

Guess if one is way out there on the right, everyone looks liberal.

Gary
Of course,
but we were talking about Politifact as an unbiased source.

7612
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 08:19:46 AM »
Any website, news site, fact checker... etc. will have a bias.. They are all written by people who inherently have their own bias built in.  That being said, I've found that Politi-fact to be one of the more accurate and least partisan ones out there.  They never struck me as unabashedly liberal.  Your opinion may differ.  ;D

Gary
The more liberal you are, the less liberal they look.

7613
Spin Zone / Re: Trump vs. Clinton
« on: March 20, 2016, 08:11:14 AM »
The "Dear Leader" is an allusion to the fact that Trump is running purely on a "Cult of Personality".  He is the biggest threat to the Republican Party I've seen in my lifetime, and as such, I will do what little I can to try and stop him.
"Dear Leader" is a reference to the North Korean leadership under the Kim Jong rule.

I"m sure you know of the violence and atrocities they have perpetrated on their own people.  Your comparison of Trump to them is outlandish and disgusting.  I don't care how you rationalize it.

If Trump is anywhere near as bad as you say he would be out of office in 4 years, if not sooner.  Perhaps he can't deliver on all of his promises, but at least he doesn't promise to transform America into a weak, third world socialist clone of Eastern Europe.

7614
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 20, 2016, 07:59:53 AM »
Sadly, I see no practical solution to poverty in this country. The Left's big hand out gravy train is proven to not lift many up and the Right's tough love, lift yourself up on your own, sink or swim ideals have been tried and never worked before. As a person who was born into a family of engineers, I see solutions, they just wouldn't be popular, or constitutional. So yeah, the poor will be with us for a good long while.
I want to expound on this without creating a new thread with a poll.
I do agree with this:
Quote
The Left's big hand out gravy train is proven to not lift many up

But I want to know how many on this board really feel this way:
Quote
the Right's tough love, lift yourself up on your own, sink or swim ideals

I for one think there is a middle ground, but that middle is closer to the "sink and swim" side than the "gravy train" side.  Sure, people on the bottom need help.  They need to learn how to stop digging their own hole.  They need to learn how to become self sufficient.  But supporting them is a comfortable life style is not going to motivate them.

We need to give them hope (with apologies to Obama) and support.  But we also need to show them that the status quo is not an option either.

I think giving money directly to  the poor is the worst thing we can do.  We can give them basic shelter, we can give them food, we can give them training and an education.  I'm even good with providing free child care so that they can get a productive job, AND free birth control.  But we should also give them the knowledge that if they want more, they have to work for it.

7615
Spin Zone / Re: Trump vs. Clinton
« on: March 20, 2016, 07:26:32 AM »
Corrected that to make your point more honestly.
I don't think Jeff is clueless.  I think he is extremely smart and very opinionated.  When I am on his side (most of the time), I appreciate his depth of knowledge and his insight.  But when we are on opposite sides, he is extremely annoying.  His continuous use of "Dear Leader" really turns me off and makes me not even want to debate him, or read his posts.

7616
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 18, 2016, 03:16:30 PM »
This solution predicated on a supposition that we have an epidemic of people having babies for welfare benefits. I'd like your data on that, please.
Just because a lot of the evidence is anecdotal doesn't mean it isn't valid.

7617
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 18, 2016, 02:00:45 PM »
What about not having children until you can afford them,  you know, personal responsibility?
That should be made a national priority.
I am not saying you have to be rich to have kids.  But you need to at least be able to support yourself.

7618
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 18, 2016, 01:15:46 PM »
Great job, and I mean that. Despite your poverty, it sounds like your mother was a great role model. Let us endeavor to understand whether there are structural changes we can make so that those born into poverty without role models, and not as intrinsically well-prepared for success, may join our ranks. That's what I'm getting at.
One start would be to provide assistance to young "couples" with kids.  In my opinion, one of the greatest failings of government is forcing the fathers of young children to leave the family so that the single mother can qualify for assistance.  But the assistance should be limited in both scope and longevity.  Give them basic foodstuffs like beans and rice (both are healthy).  Provide BASIC shelter for a limited amount of time.  But don't just give them money.  And make them earn what assistance they are given.  Providing child care for other working couples comes to mind.  Even picking up trash in their neighborhood can be productive and give the residents something to be proud of.  I hated my neighborhood when I was a kid because it was filthy and I was embarrassed to bring my friends home.  I wanted to get out of that neighborhood so bad I was willing to work for it.

7619
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 18, 2016, 12:47:00 PM »
Do you suggest that babies, toddlers, and primary-school aged children have an ability to "make choices" that will lift their families out of poverty? Do you reject the idea that being brought up in poverty causes structural and biological deficiencies that may affect social mobility? And since studies have shown that those brought up with wealth have a far greater chance of maintaining wealth in their own adulthood (and vice versa), do we conclude that there is a causal link between the amount of money your parents have and how lazy you will be later in life?
No.  I don't reject those things at all.  Poverty is definitely an obstacle that needs to be overcome.  But overcoming obstacles takes effort.  That may require effort over generations so that each new generation has more opportunities than their previous generation.  Making excuses for failure makes failure easier.

I remember when I was a kid and my widowed mother with three boys would depend on our church to bring groceries.  I remember my mother working two or three jobs, usually coming home as we were waking up.  I remember buying a 50 cent bag of cheetos and a box of baggies and selling a dozen bags of cheetos at school for a dime each so I could buy lunch. 

So dont' tell me about poverty.  I lived it. I know about safety nets and what they are good for.

I remember pumping gas, waiting tables and making pizzas between classes so I could graduate from a good State school while paying in-state tuition.  Yes, it took me eight years to get my 4 year degree.  And yes, I know tuition is higher now than it was.  But I earned it and I am proud of it.  And I do know kids today that are working and going to school without running up tons of debt.

I know other kids that chose a different path.  They thought they were cool because they dropped out of school.  Some of them even got a job.  The lucky ones are still working that same job and complaining about how the rich keep getting richer and they are still poor.

Yeah, being born into poverty sucks.  Some people are happy to use that as an excuse.  It takes work to get out of poverty.  But if you don't have to put in the effort, you will never get out of it.

7620
Spin Zone / Re: The problem with liberals.
« on: March 18, 2016, 11:57:07 AM »
Do you suggest that babies, toddlers, and primary-school aged children have an ability to "make choices" that will lift their families out of poverty? Do you reject the idea that being brought up in poverty causes structural and biological deficiencies that may affect social mobility? And since studies have shown that those brought up with wealth have a far greater chance of maintaining wealth in their own adulthood (and vice versa), do we conclude that there is a causal link between the amount of money your parents have and how lazy you will be later in life?
Do you reject that government programs that pay single women to have more and more babies, and penalizes them if they actually do get a job, doesn't contribute to the "generational poverty" that is rampant?

Safety nets = good.
Government enabling and encouraging of poverty = bad.


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