PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on June 08, 2017, 05:23:56 AM
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Do you remember when you were young and told an old person something and they had this stupid blank look on their face? And you knew it was because they couldn't relate to what you just said and they were so stuck in the mud they would never be able to grasp the wild incredible thing you just told them about? So you just dropped the subject because they were so old fashioned they had no clue what you were about?
That happened to me a lot when I was young. Now I'm an old person and now I know what was really going on behind the face. The stupid blank look is boredom because you have already been there done that and know more about it than the young person can possibly imagine and you are so over it.
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I have more of a disconnect with the focus of young people now than with their life experiences. I see them is face down in their I Phones totally enamored with whatever social media they are on. I fear that their social skills are not developed, but I am occasionally surprised by some. I think technology, and the influence of media has drastically changed younger people, and society, and not for the better. What I see on network TV, the few times I flip through channels is disturbing, and I always wonder what my parent's would think, as they are gone now. They would be utterly SHOCKED.
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I have more of a disconnect with the focus of young people now than with their life experiences. I see them is face down in their I Phones totally enamored with whatever social media they are on. I fear that their social skills are not developed, but I am occasionally surprised by some. I think technology, and the influence of media has drastically changed younger people, and society, and not for the better. What I see on network TV, the few times I flip through channels is disturbing, and I always wonder what my parent's would think, as they are gone now. They would be utterly SHOCKED.
I'm reserving judgment whether it will be a net good or bad thing. I see a lot of bad but also a lot of good, like me being able to ask the whole world any question on any subject on a little device I carry around in my pocket. The human race has definitely taken a big step that will change us deeply and who knows where it will lead. I think there were only two things in our entire evolutionary history that had as great an impact: learning to control fire, and learning agriculture and herding. Coming in at fourth would be the printing press which brought information to the masses. But technology and the Internet beats that out and is in third place. It's so new we have yet to see what the consequences, good and bad, will be. I agree it is changing how we interact socially, but I'm not sure exactly about the end result.
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I'm reserving judgment whether it will be a net good or bad thing. I see a lot of bad but also a lot of good, like me being able to ask the whole world any question on any subject on a little device I carry around in my pocket. The human race has definitely taken a big step that will change us deeply and who knows where it will lead. I think there were only two things in our entire evolutionary history that had as great an impact: learning to control fire, and learning agriculture and herding. Coming in at fourth would be the printing press which brought information to the masses. But technology and the Internet beats that out and is in third place. It's so new we have yet to see what the consequences, good and bad, will be. I agree it is changing how we interact socially, but I'm not sure exactly about the end result.
I'm not saying technology is bad, or has hurt society, but I see a coarsening of society, vulgarity, and less focus on how we treat each other. I don't know if that is due to technology or not, but it may be playing a part. I fear we are getting less "personal" with less ramifications for how we treat each other.
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I'm not saying technology is bad, or has hurt society, but I see a coarsening of society, vulgarity, and less focus on how we treat each other. I don't know if that is due to technology or not, but it may be playing a part. I fear we are getting less "personal" with less ramifications for how we treat each other.
I absolutely agree with this. Is it Miss Manners that said manners is the cornerstone of civilization? Without them society decays into a lot of bad things and I think we are witnessing this very thing happening.
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Do you remember when you were young and told an old person something and they had this stupid blank look on their face? And you knew it was because they couldn't relate to what you just said and they were so stuck in the mud they would never be able to grasp the wild incredible thing you just told them about? So you just dropped the subject because they were so old fashioned they had no clue what you were about?
That happened to me a lot when I was young. Now I'm an old person and now I know what was really going on behind the face. The stupid blank look is boredom because you have already been there done that and know more about it than the young person can possibly imagine and you are so over it.
It's both, actually.
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I have more of a disconnect with the focus of young people now than with their life experiences. I see them is face down in their I Phones totally enamored with whatever social media they are on. I fear that their social skills are not developed, but I am occasionally surprised by some. I think technology, and the influence of media has drastically changed younger people, and society, and not for the better. What I see on network TV, the few times I flip through channels is disturbing, and I always wonder what my parent's would think, as they are gone now. They would be utterly SHOCKED.
Just wait until AI starts taking over. No need for anyone to think or do much of anything that we now consider to be "productive."
We're going to turn into the Eloi.
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Just wait until AI starts taking over. No need for anyone to think or do much of anything that we now consider to be "productive."
We're going to turn into the Eloi.
It may have been on here, or maybe on another website, but a recently retired tech executive from Silicon Valley pretty much said the same thing. What scares me is the military's fascination with AI, and unmanned everything. We will have UAV's fighting each other in the air, robots on the ground, and crewless ships on the oceans with pilotless aircraft. We are becoming obsolete!
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It may have been on here, or maybe on another website, but a recently retired tech executive from Silicon Valley pretty much said the same thing. What scares me is the military's fascination with AI, and unmanned everything. We will have UAV's fighting each other in the air, robots on the ground, and crewless ships on the oceans with pilotless aircraft. We are becoming obsolete!
We are going to end up like that Star Trek episode where the computers fight the war and declare how many people were killed then you march yourself into the vaporizing machine.
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It's both, actually.
Yeah I guess there are some things I just don't relate to, like husbands doing their own laundry. I grew up where that was the wife's territory, Dad never messed with the washing, and I've done all the washing in my marriage even when I worked full time so when my daughter says she and her husband do their laundry completely separately, I have a real hard time understanding why on earth they do it that way. But that's when I respond, "I don't understand why on earth you do it that way." When I give them the stupid blank look it's usually because I have been around that block so much it's old news, so old I don't even want to comment on it and cannot even fake surprise or wonder that you've figured that out or had that adventure as if your generation is the first who ever thought of it. Or else I simply didn't hear what you said and don't feel like saying "Huh?" yet again.
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I feel so utterly sorry for most of you. I see the best in young people, and it is good indeed. What I see in youth today is one of the very few things that truly gives me hope for the future.
The one thing noone seems to understand is no matter where or when you go, people are people.
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I feel so utterly sorry for most of you. I see the best in young people, and it is good indeed. What I see in youth today is one of the very few things that truly gives me hope for the future.
The one thing noone seems to understand is no matter where or when you go, people are people.
You must be real proud, an entire generation that has been subject to indoctrination. It must warm your heart knowing they will be lock step in whatever nonsense the progressives put out. Never question, never use independent thought, no critical thinking skills, just obedience. Ms Reality Winner is a fine example.
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I feel so utterly sorry for most of you. I see the best in young people, and it is good indeed. What I see in youth today is one of the very few things that truly gives me hope for the future.
The one thing noone seems to understand is no matter where or when you go, people are people.
I have no idea what you mean. Why are you sorry for us? And where have we implied we can't also see the best in young people? Just because we see the disadvantages of their noses buried in technology doesn't mean we see no good in them.
Yes people are people, that's a given. All old people used to be young once. But young people haven't been old yet, so of the two groups, old people have more perspective. That doesn't make us better, it just means we are farther along the pathway toward death.
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You must be real proud, an entire generation that has been subject to indoctrination. It must warm your heart knowing they will be lock step in whatever nonsense the progressives put out. Never question, never use independent thought, no critical thinking skills, just obedience. Ms Reality Winner is a fine example.
Hey Steingar, is this why they are the best hope for the future, because you think they tend to be progressive liberals? Is does seem Lucifer is assuming that's what you mean. Or do you think they have characteristics that have nothing to do with politics that you're talking about? And if so are they different from the characteristics any other generation had?
Or is it because they have tools now that we didn't, like the Internet?
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I feel so utterly sorry for most of you. I see the best in young people, and it is good indeed. What I see in youth today is one of the very few things that truly gives me hope for the future.
The one thing noone seems to understand is no matter where or when you go, people are people.
Feeling full of yourself, AGAIN???
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Yeah I guess there are some things I just don't relate to, like husbands doing their own laundry. I grew up where that was the wife's territory, Dad never messed with the washing, and I've done all the washing in my marriage even when I worked full time so when my daughter says she and her husband do their laundry completely separately, I have a real hard time understanding why on earth they do it that way. But that's when I respond, "I don't understand why on earth you do it that way." When I give them the stupid blank look it's usually because I have been around that block so much it's old news, so old I don't even want to comment on it and cannot even fake surprise or wonder that you've figured that out or had that adventure as if your generation is the first who ever thought of it. Or else I simply didn't hear what you said and don't feel like saying "Huh?" yet again.
I can't fathom why it's any issue at all if the man does the/some laundry. In fact a young man ought to be taught how to do laundry, and do the dishes, and plant flowers, and mop, and clean, and cook. And he ought to be taught that these are not necessarily a "woman's job", because said young man is likely to be on his own during many times of his life, and he'll need not only to know how to do these things, but also to not utterly resent that he has to do them. Or, said young man may grow into a beautiful relationship with a woman who enjoys yardwork, and said young couple may happily agree to divide the household chores well outside of the social norms of yesteryear.
A bit about me: I don't mind saying my age. I'm 37, so fairly young, I guess. I'm a professional in my daily job - shirt and tie. Those who don't know me probably think I'm a white collar dude through-and-through. I'm not muscular or tall and don't come across as a burly guy. But come to my house and you'll see the flowers I planted myself and the small lime tree I'm cultivating along. On the table might be the dinner I cooked, because I love cooking and I'm the chef in my house. I can sew (sewed my dog's first bed, actually). I sometimes do my own laundry. Now open the garage and you'll find no less than 5 smoke-belching two-stroke engined machines and roughly 8 gas cans with various ratios of gas/oil premix. I have a two-stroke jet ski I fixed myself and a Spanish-made race replica motorcycle that I'm in the process of rebuilding. And oh yes, I learned to fly because I wanted the challenge.
I don't know why anyone would have difficulty relating to these things, whether it's a traditional "manly" thing I'm doing or not. I kind of think my ability to do all these things makes me dynamic and interesting. When you're having difficulty relating to the goings on of younger people, or you're thinking to yourself how you've been there and done that and know so much more than them, I hope that sometimes you consider, rather than their perspective being worse, it might just be different, and sometimes may even be better. And sometimes, especially if it involved electronics, you really CAN'T relate, and it's definitely you, not them. ;)
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"Relating to young people is no different than it was fifty years ago.
Instead of pretending to understand, or appreciate their style of music and entertainment, I ask open ended questions and see what comes next. Some young people are quite erudite and intelligent and some are airheads, which tracks with people of my generation.
The difference comes when smoke and vapor issues come up like 'social justice' and personal responsibility. Most young people have been indoctrinated into code words and trigger phrases that they cant define, nor apply with anything more than generalizations and flat out wrong retorts.
Rather than talk to a blank wall, its best to simply point out the facts and offer actual examples of things that accomplish something instead of sounding nice and PC.
I too plant and care for flower beds, feed squirrels and birds, pet the neighbors dogs and engage their kids in discussions about the latest superhero, or really cool video game. When they grow up I try to engage them in substantive discussions about their future and their civic responsibility, which has become so old fashion that its about to become popular again.
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I can't fathom why it's any issue at all if the man does the/some laundry. In fact a young man ought to be taught how to do laundry, and do the dishes, and plant flowers, and mop, and clean, and cook. And he ought to be taught that these are not necessarily a "woman's job", because said young man is likely to be on his own during many times of his life, and he'll need not only to know how to do these things, but also to not utterly resent that he has to do them.
You jumped to a great big huge conclusion. I never said the husband shouldn't know how to do these things. You are right he should, and he will certainly be alone many times and need to do these things, even if it's only when his wife goes to visit her mother for a week. And women should know how to do the basic "manly" things like change a flat tire or kill a bug for the same reason. But for this to be true it's not necessary for them to do everything 50/50 on a daily basis. That's what I'm referring to. To my mind, it's more efficient if one person does all the laundry because it means a full load for whites for example, and so the machine is run less. And traditionally it's been the woman who does it, so that's my mindset, but it's because traditionally it's the man who had the full time job.
A bit about me: I don't mind saying my age. I'm 37, so fairly young, I guess. I'm a professional in my daily job - shirt and tie. Those who don't know me probably think I'm a white collar dude through-and-through. I'm not muscular or tall and don't come across as a burly guy. But come to my house and you'll see the flowers I planted myself and the small lime tree I'm cultivating along. On the table might be the dinner I cooked, because I love cooking and I'm the chef in my house. I can sew (sewed my dog's first bed, actually). I sometimes do my own laundry. Now open the garage and you'll find no less than 5 smoke-belching two-stroke engined machines and roughly 8 gas cans with various ratios of gas/oil premix. I have a two-stroke jet ski I fixed myself and a Spanish-made race replica motorcycle that I'm in the process of rebuilding. And oh yes, I learned to fly because I wanted the challenge.
I don't know why anyone would have difficulty relating to these things, whether it's a traditional "manly" thing I'm doing or not. I kind of think my ability to do all these things makes me dynamic and interesting.
Certainly. My husband can cook meals and does so all the time, and in fact he's the one who planted the flowers in our back yard. As well as he is just like you with the garage full of mechanical things and of course flying. For my part, I handle all the bill paying, traditionally a man's job.
My mother always told me to get an education and have a "backup" career just in case I found myself widowed or something and needed to support myself. I took her advice and went to college but instead of learning secretarial skills or nursing, I chose to become a mechanical engineer. That was back when only 2% of the ME class were female so I was breaking gender roles. I took flying lessons. I worked once cutting down trees. We raised our girls to know how to change their tires and oil, and other basics. And my husband was very involved in diaper changing and raising our kids.
So it's not that I have a problem with men knowing how to do laundry and I agree with you that they should. Now that I think about it, it would make more sense if the husband did all the laundry than they each doing their own. Maybe that's my issue, the fact that they do it separately. That just makes no sense to me at all. That would drive me insane. If for example I go to put my clothes into the dryer and find his load still there. I just cannot see how that works.
When you're having difficulty relating to the goings on of younger people, or you're thinking to yourself how you've been there and done that and know so much more than them, I hope that sometimes you consider, rather than their perspective being worse, it might just be different, and sometimes may even be better.
No it's not about knowing more than them. It's about having seen the road they haven't yet seen. They may and do know more than me in many areas, but what I'm talking about is life experience, and that's not about quantity of knowledge, it's about perspective. And it's not about being "worse". They don't have a "worse" perspective because they are young, they just have a more limited one. There is no value judgement. They have to have a limited one, there's no other way, because you have to focus in on your current learning before you can move on.
Take my grandson for example. There was a time around age 3 months, when he was all about attempting to connect his hands to the object just in front of his face, and coordinate that connection with his vision. He was teaching himself hand-eye coordination. He had apparently only just realized that these knobs of flesh waving around in front of his face were things he might be able to control, and was now working very hard to maneuver them to touch the thing his eyes were looking at. First it's random flailing, then his eyes focus on one point and he stills himself and has a look of pure concentration, and then one arm moves with intention toward that focal point. But he mistakenly removes his eyes from the point too soon, his hand swats at the thing and misses it. But he's connected the hand to the thing before if purely by accident so he knows the physical sensation. It is starting to dawn on him that sensation is connected with the visual image that he sometimes rests his eyes on. So he calms himself again, refocuses his eyes on the object, and again tries to make the hand hit it on purpose.
That's what the kid has to do at that age. He's no choice. He can't progress in life until he masters this step. I don't look down on him because he doesn't know anything he will in the future. On the contrary, I'm proud of him for his efforts and I have empathy for his struggles. It's the same throughout your life, this never changes. When teens and early 20s go through dating for the first time, it's what they need to do to learn and develop, I don't think they are "worse" than me because they haven't been there done that yet. It's new to them and they're working it out.
We do this throughout life. At middle age there are certain things we go through. I now look back and observe 40 year olds teaching themselves certain things. And it's just like the 3 month old baby. I can see what they're attempting, I know what it is, and I can see what their future is, just like I know that baby will soon be grasping the toy and bringing it to his mouth. There's no value judgement there. I don't think I'm "better" just because I'm farther along the road. It's just sometimes I have limited patience to sit and talk about it because now at age 60 I have my own problems to deal with. And I now realize that my 90 year old mother is looking at me struggling with my little 60 year old problems and she sees the pathway before me that I am still blind to.
And sometimes, especially if it involved electronics, you really CAN'T relate, and it's definitely you, not them. ;)
The other day I screamed at my husband, "I can't figure out how to do this on my iPhone! I need a 5 year old to help me."
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"Relating to young people is no different than it was fifty years ago.
Instead of pretending to understand, or appreciate their style of music and entertainment, I ask open ended questions and see what comes next. Some young people are quite erudite and intelligent and some are airheads, which tracks with people of my generation.
The difference comes when smoke and vapor issues come up like 'social justice' and personal responsibility. Most young people have been indoctrinated into code words and trigger phrases that they cant define, nor apply with anything more than generalizations and flat out wrong retorts.
I think this is part of being a young adult. You come into awareness of broad social issues, and you take on the surface opinions floating around out there. There is a transition from just accepting what your parents taught you to what you imagine by comparison is "thinking for yourself" as an adult. Unfortunately today the predominant opinions available are these code words and trigger phrases being trotted out by a media with a very biased agenda. So these young people are NOT actually thinking for themselves; they're taking on the culture around them with no more depth than when they simply accepted what their parents told them as a child.
The next step in maturity is to dig deeper. Rather than believe for example that women are being unfairly compensated for work because of sexism just because you keep hearing this in the media and all your friends believe it, you question whether this is in fact true, and you work at gaining a more comprehensive understanding of the issue. This requires applying critical thinking, objectivity, willingness to accept new information, and so on. To fully appreciate the women's compensation issue, you even need to have a working knowledge of basic economics; supply and demand and so forth. Over time you learn that issues aren't so simple, but there are layers of facts to be considered, that you simply aren't aware of when you first consider the idea.
For example when I was 14 the Vietnam War was in full force. Because I never fit in with the popular kids at school, my friends were the nerds and rejects, and several of them were taking on the hippie culture. For my part, I saw on TV every day reports of Americans killed. Without much depth of thought or understanding, I took on the opinion the war was "bad" and we should get out of it, simply because my friends thought that and I had no more information than Americans were being killed and some of them were going to be my friends. Indeed a common topic of conversation with my male peers was the draft lottery.
Fortunately at age 14 I had not yet started writing letters to the editor or participating in any demonstrations so my opinion had no effect on society. By the time I started doing those things I had matured and come to a deeper understanding of the whole thing. I came to understand how we become involved, WHY we were involved, and furthermore, the mistakes we made and the reasons we failed, and the reasons the anti-war activists were in fact wrong and caused much more needless damage, probably even causing us to lose the war. That's the difference between an immature opinion and a fully informed mature opinion.
Such nuanced concepts such as this: No matter whether it is right or wrong to have entered a war, once entered, you must fully support it to win as fast and as decisively as possible or you'll cause massively increased human suffering. I didn't get that at age 14. I do now.
I'm not saying my fully formed opinion is the correct one; someone else might have a different opinion but also based on a lot of critical thinking to support it. There are so many different ways to study a thing we don't all come to identical conclusions. I'm saying that young people go through a process of maturity that involves increasingly complex steps of thought in forming their views. IN GENERAL the younger they are, the more shallow their opinion. They may FEEL deeply about it, but that's not the same as having performed deep objective examination.
Rather than talk to a blank wall, its best to simply point out the facts and offer actual examples of things that accomplish something instead of sounding nice and PC.
Yes and you are helping them start the process of critical examination of all the facts. First they need to be made aware that there are facts outside their limited viewpoint. Hopefully that should be all that's needed to get them to explore the matter more deeply. To recognize propaganda is one of the first things they must learn.
I too plant and care for flower beds, feed squirrels and birds, pet the neighbors dogs and engage their kids in discussions about the latest superhero, or really cool video game. When they grow up I try to engage them in substantive discussions about their future and their civic responsibility, which has become so old fashion that its about to become popular again.
Sounds like you're pretty cool. One of the things wrong with our educational system and our lifestyles in general is that we segregate the generations. Kids are put into classes with all the same age rather than benefiting from older ones and helping younger ones. Grandparents live in retirement farms now rather than staying in the home with the family. We've lost some of the benefits of young people being exposed to older people's ideas, and old people enjoying being around the optimistic energy of the young.
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I have very little contact with younger people today, so most of my thoughts about them come from others who do have contact with them. Occasionally, when I do interact with them, I am often surprised when they are NOT the self absorbed, I Phone, entitled people that I hear about. I have a neighbor kid that helps me with some yard work when I am away on business, or just can't handle something around the house. He is polite, respectful, hard working, and just an all around good kid. His older brother used to help me out, and he is exactly the same. I called their Mother, and told them she had raised two really good sons. Here are two boys, who are industrious, and want to EARN their money. They do not think the world owes them something, and I am sure their parents are the same.
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I have very little contact with younger people today, so most of my thoughts about them come from others who do have contact with them. Occasionally, when I do interact with them, I am often surprised when they are NOT the self absorbed, I Phone, entitled people that I hear about. I have a neighbor kid that helps me with some yard work when I am away on business, or just can't handle something around the house. He is polite, respectful, hard working, and just an all around good kid. His older brother used to help me out, and he is exactly the same. I called their Mother, and told them she had raised two really good sons. Here are two boys, who are industrious, and want to EARN their money. They do not think the world owes them something, and I am sure their parents are the same.
That made me think of a gaming buddy I made online playing World of Warcraft. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's where you are in a fantasy world as a cartoony character playing with other people who control cartoony characters, about 2000 people per server. You are in one of two enemy factions who can "kill" each other in most cases if you wander out of your faction's territories. (There are servers where you can choose to be safe from real life players, only the artificial intelligence cartoons can kill you, but I rarely played on those.)
Anyway on those servers where you can be killed it's common for higher level players to go around "ganking" lower level players as they attempt to quest and level up. "Gank" means to kill someone much weaker than you are, or to gang up on a player so that he has no chance. So as you level up you must wander out into the dangerous world and questing becomes not only about completing your assigned task, but trying to avoid enemy players. Why would anyone play on these servers and not the ones where you are safe? Because it is extremely thrilling to be predator to those below you and prey to those above you, or to spar with your equals, and such conflict interrupts the boring questing projects.
Back in the day (they have ruined the game now) the enemy factions could not talk to each other. All talking is written in a "chat" box and it's like reading subtitles. If you talked in the game, your enemies would see an unintelligible foreign language. Only those of your own faction would see what you really typed. This increased the reality of the schism between factions. But there was a forum outside the game where players could go and interact in real life. Then we could talk to each other.
So there I was, a low level "baby" in the game, just left my safe birth zone, and exposed for the first time to the dangers of the world at large. I have been tasked with killing AI (artificial intelligence) zombies in a cemetery as a leveling quest, and the quest takes many hours and days. I'm staying at an inn in that zone. It was common back then for the enemy to "raid" villages and the surrounding landscape. I was "Alliance" and the enemy was "Horde". There was a gang of three Horde that came every night to raid the zone and kill any low level players trying to quest there. They found me, a lone female, questing every evening in the cemetery and proceeded to gank me mercilessly. They made it hard for me to complete my quest so naturally I got my high level buddies to come defend me. Long story short, a feud ensued and it spilled over into the real life forums where we could all speak English and trash talk.
So during all this trash talk one of the three, for whatever reason, decided he wanted to learn more about me, who was I in real life? So he reached out to me on the forum with an olive branch and again, long story short, my relationship with all three transformed into a close friendship. When they found out that I am in reality a 50 year old housewife (I was only 50 back then) and I found out they were three 19 year old boys, we all were intrigued to learn more about each other. I ended up being like the Aunt they needed, they came to me for advice, and on my part, I never had sons, and always wanted a son so they kind of filled that role for me too. We got Ventrillo which is a platform separate from the game where you all get into a voice chat room together. So while our characters in the game could not communicate, we the real life people were in voice contact while we played.
This resulted in massive fun! Now I could roam with their gang as an enemy and of course I was viewed as a traitor by some of my faction, but also acted as a double agent, enticing my new friends to betray their faction and assist my faction. I could also arrange planned duels between high level equals, when you allow two enemy players to fight to the death.
Anyway, all of that is neither here nor there. We lived in separate states but eventually I met one of them in real life. And here is why you reminded me of him. This kid wanted more than anything to be a car mechanic. He loved cars, but he was not able to learn how to work on cars at school. There was no mechanic shop. Their was a private school but he didn't have the money. He worked at a pretzel place in the mall, and turned most of his money over to his parents who had run into financial trouble and were about to lose their home. For three years I played with these guys, and in all that time this kid kept wanting to move away from home and start his own life, but felt obligated to assist the family. He had one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen in a person of any age, and it was heartbreaking to see him unable to follow his dream. He would not abandon his parents to lose their home, but he was sacrificing his future.
In his case, besides the whole mortgage fiasco that got his parents into that pickle, the entire problem was that high school is focused on college prep. We have been lied to now for generations, that everyone can be a doctor or lawyer and we need to force all children through 12 years of school with those professional goals in mind, and we have gotten away from respecting other career choices - the blue collar choices. I don't know how or when carpentry and welding and mechanics got out of the public school curriculum, but it was not available to him and resulted in him feeling trapped and blocked from moving on in life. That and his parents; his father had been taken ill - it was not that they were slackers either. The bottom line is this family was badly hurt by this country's economic and educational situation.
But the kid on the inside was no different from any of us at that age. He had the same dream - he wanted to find a nice girl and raise a family, and he wanted to have a solid career doing the thing he knew he was good at.
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We lived in separate states but eventually I met one of them in real life. And here is why you reminded me of him. This kid wanted more than anything to be a car mechanic. He loved cars, but he was not able to learn how to work on cars at school. There was no mechanic shop. Their was a private school but he didn't have the money. He worked at a pretzel place in the mall, and turned most of his money over to his parents who had run into financial trouble and were about to lose their home. For three years I played with these guys, and in all that time this kid kept wanting to move away from home and start his own life, but felt obligated to assist the family. He had one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen in a person of any age, and it was heartbreaking to see him unable to follow his dream. He would not abandon his parents to lose their home, but he was sacrificing his future.
In his case, besides the whole mortgage fiasco that got his parents into that pickle, the entire problem was that high school is focused on college prep. We have been lied to now for generations, that everyone can be a doctor or lawyer and we need to force all children through 12 years of school with those professional goals in mind, and we have gotten away from respecting other career choices - the blue collar choices. I don't know how or when carpentry and welding and mechanics got out of the public school curriculum, but it was not available to him and resulted in him feeling trapped and blocked from moving on in life. That and his parents; his father had been taken ill - it was not that they were slackers either. The bottom line is this family was badly hurt by this country's economic and educational situation.
But the kid on the inside was no different from any of us at that age. He had the same dream - he wanted to find a nice girl and raise a family, and he wanted to have a solid career doing the thing he knew he was good at.
That's an interesting story. I hope he was eventually able to follow his dream. There are good kids out there, and they are facing challenges we could never imagine. Technology, the economy, the poor direction society is going, and "real" job growth are all big issues. I fear that lack of good jobs, that pay well are not as available today. I think a lot of younger people are "settling" for less.
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I am an old WoW player. And Final Fantasy before that. And way back in the day, text-based MUDs on AOL. Good times.
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Hey Steingar, is this why they are the best hope for the future, because you think they tend to be progressive liberals? Is does seem Lucifer is assuming that's what you mean. Or do you think they have characteristics that have nothing to do with politics that you're talking about? And if so are they different from the characteristics any other generation had?
Or is it because they have tools now that we didn't, like the Internet?
No, its because you are all utterly wrong about them. Some of them are liberal, some conservative. Some hardworking, some not so much. Some enormously intelligent, some a little less so. In summary, they are just like the generation before them, and the generation before that. Its the one thing you people will never understand though you live to be 100. People are people, period.
What gives me hope is the previous generations built the greatest nation the world and expanded the reach and quality of the human experience in the process. The generation coming up isn't one whit worse. They will do great things.
The only real surprise I've gotten is the degree of computer illiteracy.
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No, its because you are all utterly wrong about them. Some of them are liberal, some conservative.
Well, it is known that younger people, especially ones without work experience are more idealistic, and liberal/progressive than older folks. That is normal. Things change when they start earning a pay check, and see that hefty percentage come out to the point their net is almost half their gross. (Taxes, medical, etc).
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I sorta kinda agree with Steingar. Kids today are the same as kids have always been. Their only problem is the way they were raised, and that is their parents fault.
But I do disagree a little in that most kids are naively liberal. Always have been, but this generation seems to have been indoctrinated even more than usual. Again, this is primarily the fault of their parents, and the schools. And the media. And Hollywood. They have succumbed to all but logic, which kids (in general) have always done.
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No, its because you are all utterly wrong about them. Some of them are liberal, some conservative. Some hardworking, some not so much. Some enormously intelligent, some a little less so. In summary, they are just like the generation before them, and the generation before that. Its the one thing you people will never understand though you live to be 100. People are people, period.
I realize I've written whole huge walls of text in this thread, and I wouldn't blame you for not reading them. But I believe I said this exact same thing.
And what's with this "you people"? I thought that was a racist term.
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And what's with this "you people"? I thought that was a racist term.
The perfesser has shown time and time again he's racist, and he's not shy about showing it.
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I am an old WoW player. And Final Fantasy before that. And way back in the day, text-based MUDs on AOL. Good times.
OMG then we are kindred spirits, even if we disagree on politics. Before WoW I played FPS, the Doom series, and Quake. I miss WoW, the last few times I tried to play I couldn't stand it. They've screwed everything up. Oh well it had it's time.
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No, its because you are all utterly wrong about them. Some of them are liberal, some conservative. Some hardworking, some not so much. Some enormously intelligent, some a little less so. In summary, they are just like the generation before them, and the generation before that. Its the one thing you people will never understand though you live to be 100. People are people, period.
I guess your exemplary IQ makes you so much smarter than regular people.
We the YOU PEOPLE you progressive windbags constantly demean are the backbone of this nation.
The pathetic, snowflakes and whining, sniveling progressive (I am talking about you) never have and never will provide much of the energy that makes America great because you have a a very small, jealous, angry, ugly soul and spend you life pretending to be better than everyone else to avoid the blackness of your own heart/
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Now I'm an old person [....]
Before WoW I played FPS, the Doom series, and Quake.
Those are not the games an "old" person would look fondly back on. You are probably just middle age.
I was born in 1956. I don't consider myself old. Maybe that is why I have no idea what the secrets are of being old. Maybe in another 20 or 30 years....
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Those are not the games an "old" person would look fondly back on. You are probably just middle age.
I was born in 1956. I don't consider myself old. Maybe that is why I have no idea what the secrets are of being old. Maybe in another 20 or 30 years....
I was born in 1956.
Old is relative. I feel very old relative to a 20 year old but pretty young relative to my mother.
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I was born in 1956.
So are middle age! ;)
The electronic games I recall were on an Atari 2600 - but was in my early twenties then. Prior to that only previous exposure to computer games was on an HP 2000 timeshare system accessed from my high school via modem by way of a teletype. Kind of stopped playing such games in the early 1980s. Mostly got too busy.
Old is relative. I feel very old relative to a 20 year old but pretty young relative to my mother.
My mom was born in 1920 - I guess our parents were part of the "Greatest generation" because they lived through a great depression and the largest war in history and managed to still thrive.
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So are middle age! ;)
The electronic games I recall were on an Atari 2600 - but was in my early twenties then. Prior to that only previous exposure to computer games was on an HP 2000 timeshare system accessed from my high school via modem by way of a teletype. Kind of stopped playing such games in the early 1980s. Mostly got too busy.
I guess technically my first video game was Pong. But my first home video game was the original Doom shareware, just the first three maps. I was absolutely hooked. But that was what the early 90s? I was already nearing 40. I missed out on the console video games, I got into gaming kind of late.
My mom was born in 1920 - I guess our parents were part of the "Greatest generation" because they lived through a great depression and the largest war in history and managed to still thrive.
My Dad was born in 1921 and my mom in 1927. Yes, that generation was like no other because of what they had to face and they stepped up to the plate. Both my parents had fathers who fought in WWI. My Dad's Dad in France, my Mom's Dad for the "wrong" side on the Austrian/Italian border.
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OMG then we are kindred spirits, even if we disagree on politics. Before WoW I played FPS, the Doom series, and Quake. I miss WoW, the last few times I tried to play I couldn't stand it. They've screwed everything up. Oh well it had it's time.
I spent too many college evenings playing multiplayer Quake. ;D
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I was born in 1956 as well. Logic is a forte of mine, but in fifth grade "new math" totally destroyed my budding relationship with math and I veered away from it into English and such. New math went away fairly quickly but I never recovered from the trauma of it. I suppose that is why computers were not a big draw for me.
My only computer games were Pong and Dr. Mario and Tetris.
But I was in love with Sky King. 🙂 And Lloyd Bridges and Roy Rogers ... and the Professor on Gilligan's Island. And the chopper pilots on "Whirlybirds." So all was not lost! 🚁🚁🚁
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But I was in love with Sky King. 🙂 And Lloyd Bridges and Roy Rogers ... and the Professor on Gilligan's Island. And the chopper pilots on "Whirlybirds." So all was not lost! 🚁🚁🚁
LIKE.
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in 1920 - I guess our parents were part of the "Greatest generation" because they lived through a great depression and the largest war in history and managed to still thrive.
So much this!!
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I spent too many college evenings playing multiplayer Quake. ;D
Me only single player and also Quake II. I think Quake was the first game using a true 3D engine. The previous ID games used mere illusion for 3D.
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I was born in 1956 as well. Logic is a forte of mine, but in fifth grade "new math" totally destroyed my budding relationship with math and I veered away from it into English and such. New math went away fairly quickly but I never recovered from the trauma of it. I suppose that is why computers were not a big draw for me.
My only computer games were Pong and Dr. Mario and Tetris.
But I was in love with Sky King. 🙂 And Lloyd Bridges and Roy Rogers ... and the Professor on Gilligan's Island. And the chopper pilots on "Whirlybirds." So all was not lost! 🚁🚁🚁
is that what happened to me in 5th grade!?!?! My math crashed. All I remember is not getting it. The teacher had paper train cars hung over the chalk board. Each kid had their name on a car and she ordered them according to math grade. I was always the caboose. I couldn't understand how I could be the stupidest kid in class with math when I did so well with everything else. Except gym of course. I never forgave Kennedy for putting phys ed in the schools.
But I overcame it eventually. Advanced calculus became my favorite subject in college.
The professor on Gilligan's Island was hot! I crushed on him too. Loved Star Trek and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and land of the Giants and Lost in Space.
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is that what happened to me in 5th grade!?!?! My math crashed. All I remember is not getting it. The teacher had paper train cars hung over the chalk board. Each kid had their name on a car and she ordered them according to math grade. I was always the caboose. I couldn't understand how I could be the stupidest kid in class with math when I did so well with everything else. Except gym of course. I never forgave Kennedy for putting phys ed in the schools.
But I overcame it eventually. Advanced calculus became my favorite subject in college.
The professor on Gilligan's Island was hot! I crushed on him too. Loved Star Trek and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and land of the Giants and Lost in Space.
Having a sub-standard math teacher can really set you back, more so than in other subjects because your understanding of current subject matter builds on previous subject matter. I had a bad math teacher in elementary school (Mr. Abernathy), and ended up being put in remedial math, which was a place that I clearly did not belong. I later excelled in math, up through advanced calc and DiffEq and enginnernig-related math in college.
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I was born in 1959, so have some of the same memories. I think my Dad helped me to get through "new math". He did everything the old way, but was able to show me how to translate it. I didn't have a crush on Lloyd Bridges, but I did like Sea Hunt, and the other shows of that era. I have vague memories of Sky King, but I remember shows like Dick Van Dyke, Combat, The Munsters, The Adams Family, Gilligans Island, Batman, I Dream of Jeanie, McHale's Navy, Time Tunnel, The Rat Patrol, Star Trek, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, etc.
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Having a sub-standard math teacher can really set you back, more so than in other subjects because your understanding of current subject matter builds on previous subject matter. I had a bad math teacher in elementary school (Mr. Abernathy), and ended up being put in remedial math, which was a place that I clearly did not belong. I later excelled in math, up through advanced calc and DiffEq and enginnernig-related math in college.
Exactly. I loved differential equations, Laplace transforms, etc. I could do that stuff all day long. And you are so right about it building on previous. I somehow got past 5th grade and then in 9th grade my Algebra 1 class was in a basement classroom with extremely bad environmental controls. It was broiling hot in the winter so they could get heat to the rest of the building, and it was the first morning class. I've never been a morning person. I was so physically miserable I couldn't focus at all and again I did poorly. I actually made an F one semester and barely passed the whole thing with a D. But in Algebra 2 I must have made it all up because I did fine (in a more comfortable classroom later in the day) and then Geometry and all my college math classes pretty much A's and B's, and ended up with an engineering degree.
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And what's with this "you people"? I thought that was a racist term.
Referring mostly to the out of touch conservacrats who populate this site who are insufficiently gifted to recognize what "you people" means in context. I keep forgetting my audience.
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Referring mostly to the out of touch conservacrats who populate this site who are insufficiently gifted to recognize what "you people" means in context. I keep forgetting my audience.
It's not that you keep forgetting your audience. It's that you don't know or understand who your audience is.
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Referring mostly to the out of touch conservacrats who populate this site who are insufficiently gifted to recognize what "you people" means in context. I keep forgetting my audience.
I guess one needs an IQ of 000, like you, to understand your ignorant egotistical bullshit.
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Referring mostly to the out of touch conservacrats who populate this site who are insufficiently gifted to recognize what "you people" means in context. I keep forgetting my audience.
Of course you have no facts to back up your statement that we are "out of touch". So, how are we out of touch? Or is that just a repeat of what you hear in the faculty lounge, where people are guaranteed a job, and don't have to worry about day to day economics, and therefore UTOPIAN?
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Referring mostly to the out of touch conservacrats who populate this site who are insufficiently gifted to recognize what "you people" means in context. I keep forgetting my audience.
Isn't "you people" automatically considered a bigoted phrase?
Keep in mind that I'm not offended here because I'm not part of "them". Just asking
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I was also born in 1956. don't want to go through the whole generational incompat thing, but I believe there is a greater disconnect than several previous generations. Not sure how I'm going to keep this short, cuz there seems to be a lot of moving parts. Some of the disconnect has to do with the Mazlowian hierarchy as it relates to US society. There's a lot of polarizing influence around, in part due to the baser needs of the youth being fully accommodated. One of the most obvious signs in the recent socialization of 'microagression'. Man, talk about not getting the point of independent thought, and ideological difference. Young people seem to be attuned to every little thing said, or a look or a statement in context. Putting the words 'you' and 'people' together in a statement causes some folks to get all bent. Jeez, get over yourselves already.
I have two kids. Both are exceptionally smart, one is near-genius. They work hard, in VERY different fields and contribute significantly to betterment of society. They are also very well compensated for their work. One is an engineer, and deals with complex and non-interactive research. The other is a teacher and musician. I find it - literally and figuratively amazing how insensitive the teacher/musician is to other ideas, thoughts, and simple courtesy. I think it's part of the environment. There is a complete entitlement mentality that surrounds the school structure.
I also see a reduction in social skills. Not sure if it's caused by tech or a result of exposure to tech, but I consider tech to be a real focus of problems. When I watch a family at dinner, and the kids are completely sunk in their hand-set games, it makes me very sad. I'd almost prefer a bratty, noisy, obstreperous little terror than a mind-numbed drone kid drowning in electronic soup. Sad.
My engineer kid gets along with almost everyone as peers and in higher or lower relationships. How strange, that the one who doesn't get much human interaction at work is so much better at it than the one who's job it is to interact professionally with kids all the time. Baffling, but kids - ya know?
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When I see young people today with the ear buds in, playing with their phones, and oblivious to the world around them including other people I think of "Tommy" by The Who.
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I was also born in 1956. don't want to go through the whole generational incompat thing, but I believe there is a greater disconnect than several previous generations. Not sure how I'm going to keep this short, cuz there seems to be a lot of moving parts. Some of the disconnect has to do with the Mazlowian hierarchy as it relates to US society. There's a lot of polarizing influence around, in part due to the baser needs of the youth being fully accommodated. One of the most obvious signs in the recent socialization of 'microagression'. Man, talk about not getting the point of independent thought, and ideological difference. Young people seem to be attuned to every little thing said, or a look or a statement in context. Putting the words 'you' and 'people' together in a statement causes some folks to get all bent. Jeez, get over yourselves already.
I have two kids. Both are exceptionally smart, one is near-genius. They work hard, in VERY different fields and contribute significantly to betterment of society. They are also very well compensated for their work. One is an engineer, and deals with complex and non-interactive research. The other is a teacher and musician. I find it - literally and figuratively amazing how insensitive the teacher/musician is to other ideas, thoughts, and simple courtesy. I think it's part of the environment. There is a complete entitlement mentality that surrounds the school structure.
I'm actually not sure how much of a thing "microagression" is. It seems to me sort of a boutique issue, which a few young folks and professional social critics are prone to latch on to as the issue-du-jour, but which inevitably fades away as a whole lotta' nothing. I know not a single person in my social circle who is on board the microagression train. And that includes some ultra-liberal folks.
I also see a reduction in social skills. Not sure if it's caused by tech or a result of exposure to tech, but I consider tech to be a real focus of problems. When I watch a family at dinner, and the kids are completely sunk in their hand-set games, it makes me very sad. I'd almost prefer a bratty, noisy, obstreperous little terror than a mind-numbed drone kid drowning in electronic soup. Sad.
This is poor parenting. Social skills are taught, not inherent. In my house, no phones are allowed at the dinner table.
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I was also born in 1956.
Yet another one! I guess '56 was a vintage year. Or at least quite the bumper crop.
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I'm actually not sure how much of a thing "microagression" is. It seems to me sort of a boutique issue, which a few young folks and professional social critics are prone to latch on to as the issue-du-jour, but which inevitably fades away as a whole lotta' nothing. I know not a single person in my social circle who is on board the microagression train. And that includes some ultra-liberal folks.
It is driven by universities, students, and the media. If it is not a real "thing", then Liberal/Progressives need to reign in these entities, before the new crop of entitled becomes mainstream.
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Of course microagressions aren't real. The left is only, and I repeat, ONLY concerned with getting and keeping power through deception. It's all they have to offer ... nothing real, nothing that truly nourishes human flourishing.
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I'm actually not sure how much of a thing "microagression" is. It seems to me sort of a boutique issue, which a few young folks and professional social critics are prone to latch on to as the issue-du-jour, but which inevitably fades away as a whole lotta' nothing. I know not a single person in my social circle who is on board the microagression train. And that includes some ultra-liberal folks.
This is poor parenting. Social skills are taught, not inherent. In my house, no phones are allowed at the dinner table.
I don't want to get bogged down in this one theme, but I can tell you that the alt-left are using 'microagression' as another tool in the limitation on rights, specifically free speech. In the US, shutting down free speech is particularly hard, due in large part to the 1st amendment. Right or wrong, "hate" speech is protected. If it weren't then we would have a panel of 'experts' trying to decide what is hate speech and what isn't. Frex; 'you people' has NO ethnic or racial content. However, those with the 600Lb chip on their should have taken up the cudgel that 'you people' is now racist. Well just eff that. I'll write or say 'you people' with any social/civil organizational makeup I want. If I'm talking about or to a group of MDs I might use 'you people'. If I'm talking about a group of youths who are causing havoc, I might use it, no matter their gender, color, religion, etc.
Schools and some civic dept are now on the microagression bandwagon trying to use it as a method for limiting rights. It's another of the end-around deals just like the Fast & Furious was an end-around trying to limit the right to keep and bear. This is a major problem with progressive thinking. That you can substitute some kind of elitist panel of experts to decide what is, and what is not a right. Strangely, many liberals think that the labors and materials related to health are somehow a right. That a person has a right to take from those who invest wisely in their health and give that same benefit to those who choose to live unwisely, and don't invest in their health. my answer to that is in the US - there is absolutely a clear right to PURCHASE health insurance. No one from the gov, or private industry will ever limit or eliminate your right to BUY insurance. But - that's not what the libs want. They not only want to limit what is said, written, etc it all needs to be authorized, validated, but they need to control how, where, when, why things get done or not done.
This is in direct contravention of what the US is all about. We are about liberty. We are about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. We are about leaving people alone, unless they are in dire condition. All this focus on never hearing a bad word, and everyone singing the correct song, in the correct verse, and don't let your lawn grow over 2", and make sure your teeth are brushed every morning, and your car doesn't pollute more than 1 microgram of CO, and no one can ever, ever be offended. Just makes me sick. In fact, it makes me want to go out and offend as many liberals as I can possible work in my schedule.
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Offending liberals is easy. Just tell them the truth.
Works every time.