PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: NippleBoy on January 20, 2019, 03:55:08 PM
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Just signed up. Looked at a few threads. From what I can tell almost everyone seems to be conservative. I only picked up on one liberal.
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Yeah, and I sort of regret that.
Asechrest is a professed liberal, but he seems to be waffling. Other liberals that have participated here tend to leave because they are outnumbered and take offense at that.
If you are a liberal, I hope you stick around and voice logical reasons for your positions. But as you will read, many here believe there are no logical reasons for liberal positions. Maybe you can change that.
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Yes. Please enlighten us.
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Welcome!
I'm not sure political labels are terribly helpful, but yeah, there does seem to be a skew to the conservative side. Libertarians and classical liberals seem to be the next sizeable group (I happen to think the two share enough in common to almost be a joint group,) with progressive/socialist liberals in the minority. All in my estimation of course.
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Asechrest is a professed liberal, but he seems to be waffling.
IIRC he has described himself as a classical liberal - which IMHO puts him closer to libertarian ideology. I think he could be turned into a full-blown libertarian once we get him into one of our re-education camps for reprogramming. ;D
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Asechrest has described himself as a “transitioning” liberal. I think he means he is progressing rightward.
Honestly, I wish some liberal would answer the questions posed in the “I was thinking ...” thread. If I saw robust, defensible answers to those questions, I’d surely give them much thought.
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Just signed up. Looked at a few threads. From what I can tell almost everyone seems to be conservative. I only picked up on one liberal.
Glad to have you here.
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Just signed up. Looked at a few threads. From what I can tell almost everyone seems to be conservative. I only picked up on one liberal.
Welcome.
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Thanks for the welcomes.
I worked for the RNC during the early Reagan years. Great job at the time. Can't say I'm 100% republican on all matters, but I do lean that way quite a bit, if not libertarian.
I must say, that I don't seem to recall anytime in the past the amount of crybabyness that has occurred since Trump was elected. In the past the worst I seem to recall was seeing bumper stickers that said "Is it (insert next election year here) yet?" and general complaints.
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We've been 'graced' with a number of liberal trolls who come here, babble the tired old sound bites, and then get offended because most of us reject their brand of bullshit. I've never understood why liberals think they are entitled to have their opinions respected, then get to shit all over anyone else with a different one. Of course, when that doesn't work, they immediately run off to pout, project their feelings onto us and write out a long, stupid 'goodbye cruel members,' post.
If we're so cruel, why do they feel the need to write out their whining little goodbye???
Many of our avowed liberals and a couple of libs who pretended to be conservative disappeared right after President Trump won in 2016. We never heard from several since.
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Sky dog would be a good example.
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I'll never forget Kristin (Ms "Miltantly Moderate") chastising me a week before the 2016 election and telling me "Your world is about to come crashing down around you!"
Right after Trump won, she disappeared.
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I'll never forget Kristin (Ms "Miltantly Moderate") chastising me a week before the 2016 election and telling me "Your world is about to come crashing down around you!"
Right after Trump won, she disappeared.
Along with a couple of others.
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I'll never forget Kristin (Ms "Miltantly Moderate") chastising me a week before the 2016 election and telling me "Your world is about to come crashing down around you!"
Right after Trump won, she disappeared.
Along with a couple of others.
I guess their world came crashing down around them.
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I'll never forget Kristin (Ms "Miltantly Moderate") chastising me a week before the 2016 election and telling me "Your world is about to come crashing down around you!"
Right after Trump won, she disappeared.
I find that many that claim to be "Moderate" are anything but. Typically the are Militantly Progressive.
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I find that many that claim to be "Moderate" are anything but. Typically the are Militantly Progressive.
I consider myself a moderate. But my liberal in-laws think I am extreme right. I prove it to them every time I mention Trump without a pejorative.
Maybe compared to their far-left views, I am far right.
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I consider myself a moderate. But my liberal in-laws think I am extreme right. I prove it to them every time I mention Trump without a pejorative.
Maybe compared to their far-left views, I am far right.
Labels tend to be misleading. I cite Kristin because she called herself "militantly moderate", but in fact she was "far left progressive".
Ever notice that left leaning folks, most of the time, never want to associate themselves with the ideology they are clinging too? Yet the folks on the right never have a problem identifying as conservative. That alone tells you a lot.
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I consider myself a moderate. But my liberal in-laws think I am extreme right. I prove it to them every time I mention Trump without a pejorative.
Maybe compared to their far-left views, I am far right.
In comparison you probably are. Today we have a Democrat Party hijacked by the FAR LEFT so even moderates are far right in comparison.
I would encourage opposing views on this site, however, I don't see anyone really able to defend a Democrat position, or policy with anything but emotion, and name calling.
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I would encourage opposing views on this site, however, I don't see anyone really able to defend a Democrat position, or policy with anything but emotion, and name calling.
You're right, so I find it useful to do it myself. I'm willing to change my position if I find that it's outdated, incorrect, or harmful. Not only in politics but in my work and other activities.
Being unable to find a democrat who can defend their position without resorting to "well you follow the mango poopyhead" (which is where I stop listening / reading), I went over to democrats.org to see just what their positions are and try to come up with reasons to support them.
I was surprised to see that many of their positions are already being addressed by the Trump administration:
RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
Raising Workers’ Wages
Protecting Workers’ Fundamental Rights
Supporting Working Families
Helping More Workers Share in Near-Record Corporate Profits
Expanding Access to Affordable Housing and Homeownership
Protecting and Expanding Social Security (doing that with higher wages and more workers)
Ensuring a Secure and Dignified Retirement (having a job is a good thing)
Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service (OK, not that. Why would we want to do this?)
Many other issues I can agree with. What I don't agree with is how they intend to implement their strategy. Their strategy is either bigger government or taking from one group and giving to another. "Build a 21st century infrastructure." Great. Sounds good. Let's do that. But how they want to do it sucks: "Democrats will also create an independent, national infrastructure bank that will support critical infrastructure improvements." Yeah, no chance for corruption and waste there.
Other issues I flat out disagree with. For example, "making the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes". They are already paying virtually all of the taxes. And democrats never define what is their "fair share".
The point I'm making here is that we can't depend on the democrats to present and defend their own ideas. For the most part, they are not able to either because they lack the intellectual horsepower to do so or their positions cannot be defended. But we do ourselves a disservice to live in an echo chamber. Exploring and analyzing alternate ideas is a good thing. It's often uncomfortable and it requires work, but the result is a more thorough understanding of the other side, a stronger defense of the issues we want to defend, and perhaps some modification of existing ideas to something better.
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^^^^Good idea. Here are soime Democrat positions.
Man Made Climate Change - The Dems are for a "carbon tax", and a cap and trade program run by government.
Illegal Aliens/Border Security - The Dems are for Amnesty for illegals, which to me is the same a Open Borders.
Repeal Trump Tax cuts - This one baffles me. They want to effectively raise rates even though we are seeing record Fed tax revenue.
Further restrict the extraction of domestic fossil fuels - Dems don't like drilling, fracking and they hate coal even if it is just for export.
"Free" college - yeah good luck with that.
"Free Health Care" - Single payer, government run healthcare. Yeah good luck with that.
More gun control laws - We already have 22,000 gun laws on the books. Most are unconstitutional, yet the Dems want more with the eventual ban and confiscation of most of them like the UK, and Australia have. Criminals don't follow these laws, and if you disarm the law abiding they will be even more emboldened.
Can any of these be defended reasonably, and logically? Other Dem talking points, strategies, or policies?
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In comparison you probably are. Today we have a Democrat Party hijacked by the FAR LEFT so even moderates are far right in comparison.
I would encourage opposing views on this site, however, I don't see anyone really able to defend a Democrat position, or policy with anything but emotion, and name calling.
When you consider your opposition to be the literal embodiment of evil, and your position is reinforced by the willing accomplices in the media, then there are no lengths that are out of bounds if used to try to defeat evil.
That is how you get the violent, disruptive, uncivil attempts by the left to not just ignore but SILENCE the right or conservatives, by whatever means necessary and possible.
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^^^^Good idea. Here are soime Democrat positions.
Man Made Climate Change - The Dems are for a "carbon tax", and a cap and trade program run by government.
Illegal Aliens/Border Security - The Dems are for Amnesty for illegals, which to me is the same a Open Borders.
Repeal Trump Tax cuts - This one baffles me. They want to effectively raise rates even though we are seeing record Fed tax revenue.
Further restrict the extraction of domestic fossil fuels - Dems don't like drilling, fracking and they hate coal even if it is just for export.
"Free" college - yeah good luck with that.
"Free Health Care" - Single payer, government run healthcare. Yeah good luck with that.
More gun control laws - We already have 22,000 gun laws on the books. Most are unconstitutional, yet the Dems want more with the eventual ban and confiscation of most of them like the UK, and Australia have. Criminals don't follow these laws, and if you disarm the law abiding they will be even more emboldened.
Can any of these be defended reasonably, and logically? Other Dem talking points, strategies, or policies?
Regarding repealing the Trump tax cuts, the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher knew of this back in 1990:
“All levels of income are better off than they were in 1979. But what the honorable member is saying is that he would rather the poor were poorer provided the rich were less rich. That way you will never create the wealth for better social services as we have. And what a policy. Yes. He would rather have the poor poorer provided the rich were less rich. That is the Liberal (British Socialists) policy. Yes it came out. He didn’t intend it to but it did.”
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I was surprised to see that many of their positions are already being addressed by the Trump administration:
Wasn't Trump formerly a democrat?? Just like Reagan?
If true on both, it's seems as if they liked the democrat ideas, but saw that the implementation was rather absurd.
I believe Mr. Username made a similar point.
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Asechrest has described himself as a “transitioning” liberal. I think he means he is progressing rightward.
Honestly, I wish some liberal would answer the questions posed in the “I was thinking ...” thread. If I saw robust, defensible answers to those questions, I’d surely give them much thought.
Yes. From what I can tell I'm moving, perhaps not "rightward", but Libertarian-ward. Not sure I can put a finger on it, though.
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Yes. From what I can tell I'm moving, perhaps not "rightward", but Libertarian-ward. Not sure I can put a finger on it, though.
I respect asechrest for his straightforward and honest positions. I often virulently disagree with his conclusions, but he isn't someone who proclaims the talking points given by the communist party. Why the communists call themselves the democratic party is beyond me.
I think of him (you) as a classic liberal, like those who protested the Vietnam War, but refused to spit and abuse returning soldiers. As for those cowards, I still have nothing but vile contempt.
One would never catch asecrest attempting to have a law passed making it illegal for teenagers to wear a MAGA hat, like a low-life, scum sucking liberal congressman is recommending. There is nothing liberal about modern liberals. They are the worst exxample of regressive this side of the islamic loudmouthed, punks.
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Wasn't Trump formerly a democrat?? Just like Reagan?
If true on both, it's seems as if they liked the democrat ideas, but saw that the implementation was rather absurd.
I believe Mr. Username made a similar point.
Yes Trump was. But he is a pragmatist first and foremost, and likes to actually get stuff done, not do stuff just for feelgood warm fuzzies. He also might be a narcissist who has found that if he keeps all his campaign promises he might build himself a great legacy. Plus he is a businessman and understands how policy affects the economy. These are what drives him, I believe, not a fixed ideology.
Edit: one more thing: He is a scrapper. The more someone tries to obstruct him the more he digs in. The left has chosen to be his enemy rather than his friend, so they've blown any chance of him siding with them anymore.
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Wasn't Trump formerly a democrat?? Just like Reagan?
If true on both, it's seems as if they liked the democrat ideas, but saw that the implementation was rather absurd.
I believe Mr. Username made a similar point.
Are you presuming Username’s gender? Sorry, you’re banned for 1.8 seconds. Ok, ban is over. Welcome back. I hope you learned your lesson.
Ha. Welcome to SZ. What causes you to be a NippleBoy?
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When gender is unknown or involves both, the male pronoun is used. :p
That's by far the longest ban I've ever had on this board!!!
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When gender is unknown or involves both, the male pronoun is used. :p
You are showing your age. That thinking was taught in the "pre-enlightenment" age. (ie, my youth).
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You are showing your age. That thinking was taught in the "pre-enlightenment" age. (ie, my youth).
Ugh. That is correct English. It's very jarring otherwise.
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Ugh. That is correct English. It's very jarring otherwise.
I would have been more offended if I was referred to as "they". <shudder>
Yes, I was born a he, identify as a he, and will forever remain a he.
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I respect asechrest for his straightforward and honest positions. I often virulently disagree with his conclusions, but he isn't someone who proclaims the talking points given by the communist party. Why the communists call themselves the democratic party is beyond me.
I think of him (you) as a classic liberal, like those who protested the Vietnam War, but refused to spit and abuse returning soldiers. As for those cowards, I still have nothing but vile contempt.
One would never catch asecrest attempting to have a law passed making it illegal for teenagers to wear a MAGA hat, like a low-life, scum sucking liberal congressman is recommending. There is nothing liberal about modern liberals. They are the worst exxample of regressive this side of the islamic loudmouthed, punks.
Something funny -
After I bought my old Snapper rear engine rider, and being a fan of Forrest Gump, I bought a Bubba Gump Shrimp Company hat. It's red. I'm wearing it most weekends.
I regularly get stared at, and I think it's because red hats have become so ubiquitous with MAGA hats that they're trying to see what's written on it.
Of course, it could just be because I look stupid in dirty jeans and a Bubba Gump hat. ;D
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I don't understand how the words "Make America Great Again" can be seen as racist, sexist, and homophobic. Why is the Left so consumed about someone wearing a red hat with this phrase. Would it be better if it said, "Let's allow America to continue to degrade"? Would the Left embrace that due to a seemingly inherent hatred for what America has been?
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Ugh. That is correct English. It's very jarring otherwise.
Correct English is dead. “Woke” is not an adjective. It is a verb, and the past tense of the verb “wake.” Wake is also a noun.
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I don't understand how the words "Make America Great Again" can be seen as racist, sexist, and homophobic. Why is the Left so consumed about someone wearing a red hat with this phrase. Would it be better if it said, "Let's allow America to continue to degrade"? Would the Left embrace that due to a seemingly inherent hatred for what America has been?
I can just see it now: a blue hat with "Fundamentally Transform America" on it. The left would love it and would make them easier to identify.
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I can just see it now: a blue hat with "Fundamentally Transform America" on it. The left would love it and would make them easier to identify.
Or a "You didn't build that!!!" hat. These people are sick.
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I find that many that claim to be "Moderate" are anything but. Typically the are Militantly Progressive.
I am moderate and I despise the term progressive.
Yes, I built that.