PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: InTheSoup on September 06, 2016, 09:16:23 AM

Title: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: InTheSoup on September 06, 2016, 09:16:23 AM
I just cant quite see why some people say things like "either hillary or trump, we are screwed" What is it that I cant see? You either belive in one direction or the other right?
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 06, 2016, 09:44:51 AM
I just cant quite see why some people say things like "either hillary or trump, we are screwed" What is it that I cant see? You either belive in one direction or the other right?
Hillary is a very far leftist.  We all know what she is, although the evil part doesn't really bother other leftists.

Trump has some leftist tendencies, and he will often change his position so we don't really know exactly what he is.  This lack of purity really bothers some fringe conservatives.  It bothers me too, but not as much as Hillary.  At least I don't think Trump will take us down as fast as Hillary will, and given enough time, his policies may be what we need to pull us together again.


Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 06, 2016, 10:01:21 AM
Hillary is a very far leftist.  We all know what she is, although the evil part doesn't really bother other leftists.

Trump has some leftist tendencies, and he will often change his position so we don't really know exactly what he is.  This lack of purity really bothers some fringe conservatives.  It bothers me too, but not as much as Hillary.  At least I don't think Trump will take us down as fast as Hillary will, and given enough time, his policies may be what we need to pull us together again.

This country needs a major kick in the ass.  Hillary = more of the same decline into authoritarian socialism.  Trump = mad as hell and not going to take it anymore America First.  It could be great if the voters could make this choice without the propaganda wing of the Democrat Reich controlling the popular opinion, but if nothing else Trump plays the MSM like a fiddle.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Number7 on September 06, 2016, 05:00:58 PM
Hilary Clinton is a serial criminal. From Rose Law Firm to Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation, Hilary Clinton has and will continue to commit crimes, lie about them, have -or have surrogates that will - have people killed who have damaging information about her.
Donald Trump says mean things.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Steingar on September 07, 2016, 06:42:33 AM
Hilary Clinton is a serial criminal. From Rose Law Firm

So Bill and Hillary were in Arkansas, home of good ol' boy corruption.  Moreover, they're in a backwater state far from the national spotlight.  Add to that they're hard up for cash, since Bill's salary is one of the lowest (for a governor) in the nation.  Ken Starr spent years investigating their dealing there.  Apparently he stereotype of corruption is accurate, since he indicted practically their entire social circle.  And the only dirt he could get on them was Monica Lewinsky.

to Benghazi 

George Bush sent the troops into Iraq where 3,000 of them died needlessly.  But you guys are all worried about the one ambassador who bought it.  The most pathetic thing is there have been more hearings on Benghazi than on 911 itself.

and the Clinton Foundation,

was rated more highly than the Red Cross last time I checked.  But stemming world poverty must not be a worthwhile goal in your book.  That's assuming you have one you use for aught but coloring.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Number7 on September 07, 2016, 06:53:21 AM
So Bill and Hillary were in Arkansas, home of good ol' boy corruption.  Moreover, they're in a backwater state far from the national spotlight.  Add to that they're hard up for cash, since Bill's salary is one of the lowest (for a governor) in the nation.  Ken Starr spent years investigating their dealing there.  Apparently he stereotype of corruption is accurate, since he indicted practically their entire social circle.  And the only dirt he could get on them was Monica Lewinsky.


The second in command to Ken Starr, who strongly lobbied to avoid criminal charges for the serial criminal Hilary Clinton was none other than....
wait for it...
James Comey, now Director of the FBI where he chose to ignore Hilary Clinton's crimes and claim that she didn't intend to commit them.
Your other assertions about the Whitewater Investment scams are also lies, as you conveniently ignore the fact that the serial criminal Hilary Clinton suppressed records (where are we hearing about that in the current news?) until ONE DAY after teh statute of limitations expired then claimed they magically appeared on the dining room table.


George Bush sent the troops into Iraq where 3,000 of them died needlessly.  But you guys are all worried about the one ambassador who bought it.  The most pathetic thing is there have been more hearings on Benghazi than on 911 itself.

Do you actually read the bullshit you spin? It is pathetic that someone who claims to be an intelligent and educated adult would try to smoke this as a defense of the serial liar, serial criminal and all around dirt bag, Hilary Clinton.
Your best response is pathetic.... 'But Bush!!!'
What a child you are.


was rated more highly than the Red Cross last time I checked.  But stemming world poverty must not be a worthwhile goal in your book.  That's assuming you have one you use for aught but coloring.

The Clinton foundation is as pathetic a lie as your defense of it. At last count the serial criminals Bill and Hilary Clinton used less than 13% of the 'donations' which is code for bribes, for anything other than to enrich themselves. That you are willing to stand up and lie like this is proof of your devotion to ignorance and stupidity.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 07, 2016, 07:05:49 AM
The Clinton foundation is as pathetic a lie as your defense of it. At last count the serial criminals Bill and Hilary Clinton used less than 13% of the 'donations' which is code for bribes, for anything other than to enrich themselves. That you are willing to stand up and lie like this is proof of your devotion to ignorance and stupidity.
The Foundation itself does a lot of good work.  It is hard to take that away from it.

But the means to that end is not so good.
First, their methods of fund raising is questionable at best, most likely criminal, and likely treasonous.

And also, the Clintons are able to use the fund as a personal stash to further their corrupt ambitions.  It is such a complex financial puzzle that it is impossible to find out where all it reaches and who is controlling all the sub-pieces, or exactly how much money it controls.

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: bflynn on September 07, 2016, 07:34:39 AM
I'm not hearing a reason Trump is as bad a Clinton.  I think there's a reason for that.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: InTheSoup on September 07, 2016, 07:53:22 AM
I'm not hearing a reason Trump is as bad a Clinton.  I think there's a reason for that.

I'm not hearing why if you chose either one, we are screwed. Like I said before. You either believe in one direction for the country or the other. Just seems like such a weak comment when people aay we are screwed either way. I just cant understand what they are referring to.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: nddons on September 07, 2016, 07:57:05 AM
The Foundation itself does a lot of good work.  It is hard to take that away from it.

But the means to that end is not so good.
First, their methods of fund raising is questionable at best, most likely criminal, and likely treasonous.

And also, the Clintons are able to use the fund as a personal stash to further their corrupt ambitions.  It is such a complex financial puzzle that it is impossible to find out where all it reaches and who is controlling all the sub-pieces, or exactly how much money it controls.
A third year law student could make a RICO case and have the Clintons in prison within a year.

That we choose to accept rampant and blatant corruption, a consolidation of power, and rampant illegality as the new "normal" with no ramifications whatsoever is a signal that the end of the United States is near, and why I will probably be voting for Trump in November - to try to forestall the impending decline of America.

I am so, so sad for the mess that I am leaving my daughter.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Steingar on September 07, 2016, 10:39:28 AM
A third year law student could make a RICO case and have the Clintons in prison within a year.

For what, exactly?  For being Secretary of state during a terrorist attack on foreign soil?  For the basement E-mail server?  Do keep in mind that someone has to improve that she intentionally mishandled classified information.  Good luck with that one.

There have already been huge investigations of Whitewater, the Travel office, Bhengazi, and now this E-mail nonsense.  After all that, all of these rather seasoned investigators couldn't bring anyone up on any charges beyond perjury for Bill because he didn't tell the court that he'd jizzed some woman's dress.

That we choose to accept rampant and blatant corruption,

Trump routinely buys politicians in payoff play schemes.  He's said so numerous times.  Nothing illegal about it, but you can't say it isn't corrupt. From the looks of it he bought off the AG who was investigating his university.

a consolidation of power, and rampant illegality as the new "normal" with no ramifications whatsoever is a signal that the end of the United States is near, and why I will probably be voting for Trump in November - to try to forestall the impending decline of America.

You're voting for a neo-facist white-power advocate and worried about the demise of the United States?

I am so, so sad for the mess that I am leaving my daughter.

You're leaving your daughter one of the best if not the best nation on the planet.  The good news is it matter little which of them gets into office.  If the Hildebeast is elected she'll quickly torpedo herself wth idiotic scandals of her own making.  The GOP hates her with such vitriol that they'll do their damnedest to obstruct whatever she tries, and things will continue as they are.  Given the the have economic growth and full employment I don't see that as a bad thing.

If the Orange One is elected, well the only people who hate him more than the Democrats are the Republicans.  Same outcome.  The only difference is the Orange One will destroy the GOP.  And that would be a true pity.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 07, 2016, 11:45:32 AM
The dilemma voters face is obvious.  Two bad candidates.  So I plan to vote for the person who will be the most fun to watch.  Like Scott Adams, I don't wish to "watch the Clintons decompose over the next eight years."  While we don't know for sure what Trump will, exactly, do, whatever he does will be infinitely more interesting than his opponent's tired and proven ineffective liberal policies. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 07, 2016, 12:03:50 PM
For what, exactly?   For the basement E-mail server?  Do keep in mind that someone has to improve that she intentionally mishandled classified information. 

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Intentions are immaterial, except maybe in sentencing.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: bflynn on September 07, 2016, 12:28:22 PM
For what, exactly?

Obstruction of justice.  We are now forced to take her word that the 13,000 deleted emails contained nothing incriminating.  That this is only the latest in a long series of things where Hillary took sole possession of evidence being sought by investigators, reviewed it and then gave it to the investigators after modification.

Try this - you or I get a subpoena for our person email, stored on a server in our house.  We tell the investigators, Ok, no problem.  just let me go through and remove all the personal emails about recipes and yoga and stuff and then I'll give them to you.  Oh, after I give them to you, I'm going to scrub the disk with the same software used by the CIA to destroy data so Super Secret Squirrel classification stuff cannot be ever be reconstructed.

What's your call.  Are you or I going to jail for deleting the emails or not?  Did we obstruct justice by potentially destroying evidence?  Did the IT guys helping us potentially commit conspiracy to obstruct justice by giving us information about what needed to be done and how to do it?

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: nddons on September 07, 2016, 08:15:45 PM
For what, exactly?  For being Secretary of state during a terrorist attack on foreign soil?  For the basement E-mail server?  Do keep in mind that someone has to improve that she intentionally mishandled classified information.  Good luck with that one.

There have already been huge investigations of Whitewater, the Travel office, Bhengazi, and now this E-mail nonsense.  After all that, all of these rather seasoned investigators couldn't bring anyone up on any charges beyond perjury for Bill because he didn't tell the court that he'd jizzed some woman's dress.

Trump routinely buys politicians in payoff play schemes.  He's said so numerous times.  Nothing illegal about it, but you can't say it isn't corrupt. From the looks of it he bought off the AG who was investigating his university.

You're voting for a neo-facist white-power advocate and worried about the demise of the United States?

You're leaving your daughter one of the best if not the best nation on the planet.  The good news is it matter little which of them gets into office.  If the Hildebeast is elected she'll quickly torpedo herself wth idiotic scandals of her own making.  The GOP hates her with such vitriol that they'll do their damnedest to obstruct whatever she tries, and things will continue as they are.  Given the the have economic growth and full employment I don't see that as a bad thing.

If the Orange One is elected, well the only people who hate him more than the Democrats are the Republicans.  Same outcome.  The only difference is the Orange One will destroy the GOP.  And that would be a true pity.

I thought you made your last post a couple weeks ago after calling us stupid fucking morons in an unsolicited personal attack.  What, just a ruse to soothe your short man complex?

It's obvious you don't know what a RICO Act case is all about.  Why don't you get a graduate student to research it for you and brief you on it.  Here's a start:  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

And no, you don't need to prove intent for mishandling classified information.  How pathetically simplistic. 

You appear to confuse me with someone who supports Trump.  Pay attention. 

As for my daughter, I know that you don't have any offspring to worry about, but I do.  Our debt is growing to unsustainable levels, and should interest rates rise, it will make debt service impossible.  Liberties are under attack, and power is consolidating in the executive and judiciary beyond Constitutional authority, which is precursor to tyranny.  Race relations have done a 180, civil unrest is on the rise, and the large inner cities are killing fields.  The People have abdicated their desire for self-governance. 

And where do you see economic growth and full employment?  Certainly not with Obama or Hillary. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 08, 2016, 03:07:26 AM

And where do you see economic growth and full employment?  Certainly not with Obama or Hillary.

Think about the employment opportunities under the free college plan...

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Number7 on September 08, 2016, 06:34:10 AM
Unfortunately the progressive cartel is able to brainwash weak and tethered people, like academics, who then go out and repeat whatever they are told to repeat. Once that level of brainwashing is complete, you give birth to an educational cartel that is simply a clanging gong that claims to believe whatever idiotic bullshit comes down from their handlers.
Clearly Steingar believes what he was told to believe without the slightest inclination to see for himself. His arguments aren't lame, they are born of voluntary blindness insulated from any shred of reality.
When he ignores the Benghazi conspiracy of lies to conveniently make it all about everything except gun running to radical Muslims, which is the real reason Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama were willing to blame free speech and a you tube, you see the shallow weakness of progressives at work.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: PaulS on September 08, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
The dilemma voters face is obvious.  Two bad candidates.  So I plan to vote for the person who will be the most fun to watch.  Like Scott Adams, I don't wish to "watch the Clintons decompose over the next eight years."  While we don't know for sure what Trump will, exactly, do, whatever he does will be infinitely more interesting than his opponent's tired and proven ineffective liberal policies.

I like that way of looking at the election and I feel the same way. I also think Trump will be more effective at turning things around, although 8 years of more than doubling the deficit and years of quantitative easing will come home to roost. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Steingar on September 12, 2016, 09:00:00 AM
I thought you made your last post a couple weeks ago after calling us stupid fucking morons in an unsolicited personal attack. 

I called you morons because none of you understand the workings of a court of law or the duties of an attorney, though you felt compelled to comment on such.  Breathtaking stupidity, which is why I question my own participation on this board.  Why should I discuss anything with people who don't understand high school civics?

And no, you don't need to prove intent for mishandling classified information.  How pathetically simplistic. 

Then why isn't Petraeus in jail?  He knowingly passed on classified information to his lover, who wasn't even in government.  Quite a bit more serious than having the stuff on an insecure server.

As for my daughter, I know that you don't have any offspring to worry about, but I do.  Our debt is growing to unsustainable levels, and should interest rates rise, it will make debt service impossible. 

Explain unsustainable.  We are one GDP in debt.  That's like being in debt to the tune of your annual salary, which most Americans are.  No, it isn't the most desirable way to do things.  But a national crisis?  Hardly.

Liberties are under attack, and power is consolidating in the executive and judiciary beyond Constitutional authority, which is precursor to tyranny.

Sorry, just not seeing it.  But go ahead and rant, it obviously does you some good.

Race relations have done a 180, civil unrest is on the rise, and the large inner cities are killing fields.  The People have abdicated their desire for self-governance. 

You really think race relations are better than they were in the 50's?  Or the 60's?  You don't get out much.

And where do you see economic growth and full employment?  Certainly not with Obama or Hillary.

Actually, data I see from Economists suggests we have full employment right now.  No doubt you guys will argue, but given the fact you don't know what an attorney does I don't pay it much mind.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Anthony on September 12, 2016, 09:17:07 AM
So much fail Michael.  You can't see due to your hyper indoctrinated brain.  I don't even know where to begin. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 12, 2016, 09:19:33 AM
I called you morons because none of you understand the workings of a court of law or the duties of an attorney, though you felt compelled to comment on such.  Breathtaking stupidity, which is why I question my own participation on this board.  Why should I discuss anything with people who don't understand high school civics?

Assuming facts not in evidence.

I guess as a professor you feel qualified to assess the knowledge of other people outside your area of expertise.

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 12, 2016, 09:25:48 AM

Explain unsustainable.  We are one GDP in debt.  That's like being in debt to the tune of your annual salary, which most Americans are.  No, it isn't the most desirable way to do things.  But a national crisis?  Hardly.


"one GDP in debt"?  Pretty dumb way to look at the debt at the Federal level.  Not all of the GDP is available to the Federal Government to pay off debt (or are you one of those liberals who think that everything is the GOVERNMENTS?)

Do you understand that there are other debts?  For example, personal debts, debts at the State and Local levels.

But if you insist on your metric of GDP...  you aren't concerned about the total debt growing higher and higher and higher?  Most Americans would have the common sense to stop borrowing.

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 12, 2016, 10:22:38 AM
Most Americans would have the common sense to stop borrowing.

Or have their credit card shut off by the bank.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Mase on September 12, 2016, 10:28:14 AM


You really think race relations are better than they were in the 50's?  Or the 60's?  You don't get out much.



Among all the errors in your post, this stands out most.  No one said race relations are better now;  just the opposite.  Obama et al have reversed the progress that was being made.  And, some believe, intentionally.
Title: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: nddons on September 12, 2016, 10:36:49 AM
Among all the errors in your post, this stands out most.  No one said race relations are better now;  just the opposite.  Obama et al have reversed the progress that was being made.  And, some believe, intentionally.
It's a cute, childish tactic of the left - pick the timeline that makes the statement ridiculous, then ridicule the statement.

No doubt race relations are better than in 1860 as well. But I think they are much worse since 2008. Much worse.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Steingar on September 12, 2016, 01:28:34 PM
Among all the errors in your post, this stands out most.  No one said race relations are better now;  just the opposite.  Obama et al have reversed the progress that was being made.  And, some believe, intentionally.

Based on the version of reality you wish to see, not the version that is.  Sort of like Trump's laments on the  crime-ridden streets of America.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Mase on September 12, 2016, 02:31:41 PM
Based on the version of reality you wish to see, not the version that is.  Sort of like Trump's laments on the  crime-ridden streets of America.

Can you cite just a couple examples of where Obama has improved race relations and/or the climate of discussion?
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 12, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
It's a cute, childish tactic of the left - pick the timeline that makes the statement ridiculous, then ridicule the statement.

No doubt race relations are better than in 1860 as well. But I think they are much worse since 2008. Much worse.
This is true.

Race relations are way better than they were in the '50s, or almost any other time you can think of.  But I think they peaked around the time Obama took office and have been declining since then.  But there are exceptions.  It seems to me that young people are much less race obsessed than older people.  But it is the older people that Obama is successfully pitting against each other.

I still have hope that future generations will get over the majority of the race issues.  But the way things are going, those future generations are going to have a whole new set of problems, like poverty, low achievement and dependency on government.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Mase on September 12, 2016, 04:05:52 PM
BLM types mostly appear to be under 30.  Some of the most militant appear to be college age or students.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 12, 2016, 04:18:17 PM
BLM types mostly appear to be under 30.  Some of the most militant appear to be college age or students.
Yeah, there is that.  But I was drawing from my own observations and since I am white, most of my observations are of white people.  I see white people, and young white people in particular,as being much less racist than in the past.  But for some reason, all the blacks seem to see are the negatives. 

But I can actually relate to that in a way too.  When I owned my business I thought we had great, appreciative customers.  We would get dozens of compliments daily.  But occasionally we would get a real jerk that complained about everything.  So guess which customer we dwelt on when we got home and tried to sleep.  It was that jerk that kept me awake and kept me from enjoying what should have been a good experience.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: DJTorrente on September 12, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
George Bush sent the troops into Iraq where 3,000 of them died needlessly. 

You don't own a car, do you?  Or buy anything that is delivered by overland (diesel-fueled) truck?  Or heat your home in the winter?  Then you can say that our middle east intervention is "needless".  Otherwise you're either ignorant or hypocritical about the excruciatingly screeching halt the US economy would grind to without the free flow of oil at market prices.

Thanks to fracking (and in spite of environmentalist intervention and Obama policies -- but that is redundant, isn't it?), this is less so today than it was 15 years ago; but an interruption of middle east oil production would still produce a considerably negative shock.  It was/is vital to US interests that this not be the case.

Keep beating the 15-year old talking points.  There are some High School freshmen who weren't alive the first time they were used who might readily believe you.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Lucifer on September 12, 2016, 05:31:42 PM

George Bush sent the troops into Iraq where 3,000 of them died needlessly.


 And Hillary, along with many democrat Congressmen and Senators authorized it as well a publicly supported it.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Anthony on September 12, 2016, 09:20:45 PM
And Hillary, along with many democrat Congressmen and Senators authorized it as well a publicly supported it.

Most of the Democrats voted for it, including Hillary and John Kerry. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Mase on September 12, 2016, 09:46:49 PM
They voted for it only because Bush lied.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 13, 2016, 03:55:43 AM
They voted for it only because Bush lied.

so the dumb President Bush outstmarted those poor liberals.

How smart are those liberals?

Those poor liberals really like playing the victim, don't they....
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Mr Pou on September 13, 2016, 05:00:11 AM
so the dumb President Bush outstmarted those poor liberals.

How smart are those liberals?

Those poor liberals really like playing the victim, don't they....

I have some friends and cow-orkers that still claim that everything wrong today is STILL Bush's fault, and that Obama hasn't had enough time to undo all the bad that Bush did.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: JeffDG on September 13, 2016, 05:05:49 AM
"one GDP in debt"?  Pretty dumb way to look at the debt at the Federal level.  Not all of the GDP is available to the Federal Government to pay off debt (or are you one of those liberals who think that everything is the GOVERNMENTS?)

Do you understand that there are other debts?  For example, personal debts, debts at the State and Local levels.

But if you insist on your metric of GDP...  you aren't concerned about the total debt growing higher and higher and higher?  Most Americans would have the common sense to stop borrowing.
Not only that, but the analogy of being "one year's salary in debt" presumes that the federal government receives the entire GDP of the nation as income.  That kind of analogy fails an elementary-school level of economic literacy.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Number7 on September 13, 2016, 05:08:04 AM
Not only that, but the analogy of being "one year's salary in debt" presumes that the federal government receives the entire GDP of the nation as income.  That kind of analogy fails an elementary-school level of economic literacy.

In terms of economics, many if not a majority of hard line liberals are completely ignorant, or at least act that way.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 13, 2016, 05:27:53 AM
Not only that, but the analogy of being "one year's salary in debt" presumes that the federal government receives the entire GDP of the nation as income.  That kind of analogy fails an elementary-school level of economic literacy.
Well, you see, they could receive all that revenue. But they concede to allow us to keep some of it. For now.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: bflynn on September 13, 2016, 05:46:21 AM
I have some friends and cow-orkers that still claim that everything wrong today is STILL Bush's fault, and that Obama hasn't had enough time to undo all the bad that Bush did.

Ask them if they intended to 1) imply that Bush was so powerful that his influence continues today and 2) imply that Obama is so weak and impotent that he can't control the environment to the same extent that Bush did.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: bflynn on September 13, 2016, 06:20:57 AM
Explain unsustainable.  We are one GDP in debt.  That's like being in debt to the tune of your annual salary, which most Americans are.  No, it isn't the most desirable way to do things.

"one GDP in debt" is a meaningless number.  The US government's debt is 19.3 trillion on a ~3 trillion dollar government income.  If being one year in debt is bad then being 6.43 years in debt must be even worse.  This is like having a $100,000 salary and owing $643,333 in debt.  With that kind of debt, the US's FICO score would probably be in the low 300s (300 is the minimum).

Unsustainable?  No, regrettably this is very sustainable for a long time.  But it sucks money from people to do it and the ones it impacts the hardest is the poor and middle class. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 13, 2016, 06:23:40 AM
"one GDP in debt" is a meaningless number.  The US government's debt is 19.3 trillion on a ~3 trillion dollar government income.  If being one year in debt is bad then being 6.43 years in debt must be even worse.  This is like having a $100,000 salary and owing $643,333 in debt.  With that kind of debt, the US's FICO score would probably be in the low 300s (300 is the minimum).

Unsustainable?  No, regrettably this is very sustainable for a long time.  But it sucks money from people to do it and the ones it impacts the hardest is the poor and middle class.

"like having a $100,000 salary and owing $643,333 in debt. "  and on top of that, borrowing even more money each year.

Most people pay down their debt.

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Number7 on September 13, 2016, 08:49:03 AM
"like having a $100,000 salary and owing $643,333 in debt. "  and on top of that, borrowing even more money each year.

Most people pay down their debt.

To an academic progressive, the truth is perfectly obvious. As long as you can borrow you are never broke.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: nddons on September 13, 2016, 03:06:48 PM
"one GDP in debt" is a meaningless number.  The US government's debt is 19.3 trillion on a ~3 trillion dollar government income.  If being one year in debt is bad then being 6.43 years in debt must be even worse.  This is like having a $100,000 salary and owing $643,333 in debt.  With that kind of debt, the US's FICO score would probably be in the low 300s (300 is the minimum).

Unsustainable?  No, regrettably this is very sustainable for a long time.  But it sucks money from people to do it and the ones it impacts the hardest is the poor and middle class.
It is sustainable now ONLY because interest rates are close to 1%, and the debt service is STILL being paid for with borrowed money.

What happens when the Treasury yields start moving up to 2%?  What about 4%, 6%, or more?
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Anthony on September 13, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
It is sustainable now ONLY because interest rates are close to 1%, and the debt service is STILL being paid for with borrowed money.

What happens when the Treasury yields start moving up to 2%?  What about 4%, 6%, or more?

Total collapse.  Interest rates are being held artificially low.  It shows anemic and non existent economic growth.  Interest rates can only go one way.  UP.  The stock market will tank and the true stagflation in our economy will be revealed. 
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 14, 2016, 05:41:36 AM
Wall Street isn't going to allow the rates to go up since it would affect the so heavily.  They've invested a lot of money in politicians to let that happen.  The Fed will just keep posturing to keep up the illusion.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 14, 2016, 06:12:49 AM
Wall Street isn't going to allow the rates to go up since it would affect the so heavily.  They've invested a lot of money in politicians to let that happen.  The Fed will just keep posturing to keep up the illusion.

"illusion"?

what?

Things haven't gotten better and better and better under obama's watch?

Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: bflynn on September 14, 2016, 08:33:00 AM
Total collapse.  Interest rates are being held artificially low.  It shows anemic and non existent economic growth.  Interest rates can only go one way.  UP.  The stock market will tank and the true stagflation in our economy will be revealed.

Total collapse (can) comes from hyperinflation, the definition of which is debated.  In my money collection, I have a 1931 German 1000 mark note (in very poor condition).  When it was printed, it was worth about $1.20 US.  A year later a whole wheelbarrow full of these notes couldn't buy a loaf of bread.  A year after that Hilter became Chancellor of Germany.

But I think it's important to note that hyperinflation is not the only way it can happen.  It is devaluation of the currency which is the problem.  The United States has been monetizing it's debt, which also devalues the currency.  I think we are fortunate that the rest of the world has been in recession too, so as the money was devalued, it was checked by the overall pullback.  Net effect has been that we got away with it.  It just made the poor poorer.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
Except for the stock markets, I believe we are in a period of hidden STAGFLATION.  Real inflation is being hidden as is real unemployment.  The only thing that is saving inflation right now is low oil costs.  However, electricity rates are still climbing.  Low oil costs are also a very bad sign, as that shows LACK OF DEMAND due to a SLOW ECONOMY.  Look at GDP growth.  It is almost negative.  Factor in REAL INFLATION and it is negative. 

This administration, meaning Obama, has publicly said they want to stifle the demand for energy due to MMGW.  Nice, huh?  They get rich, we suffer.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: JeffDG on September 18, 2016, 01:08:30 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14265006_10157302808345462_8467539401679928771_n.jpg?oh=bcc6225ad6058f57a1b81684980bea8f&oe=587CF32A)
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Little Joe on September 18, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14265006_10157302808345462_8467539401679928771_n.jpg?oh=bcc6225ad6058f57a1b81684980bea8f&oe=587CF32A)
I see some salvageable parts on the one on the left.
Which one would that be?
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: JeffDG on September 18, 2016, 01:15:40 PM
I see some salvageable parts on the one on the left.
Which one would that be?
'Cent you can't pick the parts you want.  Eat up, and you have to finish the whole thing.
Title: Re: What exactly is it about Trump that qualify his win as equally bad?
Post by: Gary on September 18, 2016, 03:28:47 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14265006_10157302808345462_8467539401679928771_n.jpg?oh=bcc6225ad6058f57a1b81684980bea8f&oe=587CF32A)

Unappetizing, but accurate.  ;D