Post by: Jaybird180 on September 23, 2017, 06:40:35 PM
102 Gallon Useable Fuel CapacityGross 3850 lbEmpty 2631 lbUseful Load 1219 lb
Seems to me that you're done before you get started. Even IF you can find adults that actually weigh 170 or less that's 1020 lbs. You can only carry 33 gals of fuel.
What's a Bonanza burn at LOP???
Sheesh! You might be able to stay in the pattern, you can forget going anywhere.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 23, 2017, 08:58:36 PM
With the tanks full you can still carry 617 lbs of people and other junk.
Guess I don't underastand the problem with the fuel capacity.
Post by: Little Joe on September 24, 2017, 05:50:52 AM
Looking at a Bonanza online...with these numbers, what's the friggin' point!
102 Gallon Useable Fuel CapacityGross 3850 lbEmpty 2631 lbUseful Load 1219 lb
Seems to me that you're done before you get started. Even IF you can find adults that actually weigh 170 or less that's 1020 lbs. You can only carry 33 gals of fuel.
What's a Bonanza burn at LOP???
No airplane is perfect. All small airplanes have to make serious trade-offs between Useful Load, Range, speed and cost.
To me, the biggest trade-off for the Bonanza is useful load combined with a rear CG. Even if you have a useful load of (eg) 600#s, that doesn't mean you can put four 150# people in there, unless three of them sit up front.
But for my purposes, where 99% of our flights are just my wife and me, it is a fabulous airplane. We can carry full fuel and a few hundred pounds of gear. With full fuel, we rarely have to buy much fuel at those expensive places. And I love moving along at almost 170kts.
btw, I get around 163 kts LOP at around 11.5gallons and around 169 kts ROP at around 15.5 gallons. I used to go LOP all the time, but I find I really like the extra few kts and the extra fuel at ROP is not that big a deal for me.
Sheesh! You might be able to stay in the pattern, you can forget going anywhere.
Post by: invflatspin on September 24, 2017, 05:40:02 PM
If I want to carry four 200Lb people, I limit to 44 gallons. Again, at 9GPH That will take me +3 hours or 405NM. Pretty much my bladder/sanity limit.
I've tankered fuel around plenty when only two are onboard. Nothing wrong with having big tanks. If you have to fill them all the time, you may be doing something wrong.
Post by: Jaybird180 on September 25, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
A 5-seat Cirrus wouldn't allow us to bring grandma.
The OP airplane doesn't seem like it has much utility at full fuel. I guess I didn't account for using partial tanks and then filling the cabin.
How do you get a Bo to burn 9GPH. Book cruise in our C-172S was 10.5GPH but the POH also prohibited LOP operations also. It was an IO-180 engine.
Post by: Little Joe on September 25, 2017, 09:40:58 AM
I have a family of 5. My MIL is usually part of our plans also, so that makes 6. The children are small now but if I buy a Bonanza then it could serve us a long time - into their teens and beyond. Then we're likely to outgrow the airplane...unless something happens to grandma before their teens (a morbid thought, but a possibility).I suppose if I throttled the IO520 back far enough and ran really LOP I could get it to 9GPH, but that would sort of defeat one of the main reasons for buying a Bo in the first place.
A 5-seat Cirrus wouldn't allow us to bring grandma.
The OP airplane doesn't seem like it has much utility at full fuel. I guess I didn't account for using partial tanks and then filling the cabin.
How do you get a Bo to burn 9GPH. Book cruise in our C-172S was 10.5GPH but the POH also prohibited LOP operations also. It was an IO-180 engine.
Post by: Jaybird180 on September 25, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
I have a Bo, and tip tanks, and 20gal aux for a total of 90 useable. My useful load is 1065. My payload full fuel is 525. I can carry 3 FAA adults, and a few small bags. With that fuel, at economy cruise I can fly 9 hours @ 135kts, or a distance of 1215NM or 1400SM with an hour reserve.
If I want to carry four 200Lb people, I limit to 44 gallons. Again, at 9GPH That will take me +3 hours or 405NM. Pretty much my bladder/sanity limit.
I've tankered fuel around plenty when only two are onboard. Nothing wrong with having big tanks. If you have to fill them all the time, you may be doing something wrong.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 25, 2017, 10:12:20 AM
I have a family of 5. My MIL is usually part of our plans also, so that makes 6. The children are small now but if I buy a Bonanza then it could serve us a long time - into their teens and beyond. Then we're likely to outgrow the airplane...unless something happens to grandma before their teens (a morbid thought, but a possibility).
A 5-seat Cirrus wouldn't allow us to bring grandma.
The OP airplane doesn't seem like it has much utility at full fuel. I guess I didn't account for using partial tanks and then filling the cabin.
How do you get a Bo to burn 9GPH. Book cruise in our C-172S was 10.5GPH but the POH also prohibited LOP operations also. It was an IO-180 engine.
You need a Navajo.
Post by: invflatspin on September 25, 2017, 10:18:23 AM
50-55% power, 12k', LOP. I burn 8.8-9GPH reliably, every time, all the time.
The Bonanza, is an amazingly clean airframe. It has 80% flush riveting, fully enclosed gears(incl nose), double tapered wing, V tail configuration, retractable step, cowl flaps, wing root fairings, and I have some mods that make it even more sleek.
Post by: invflatspin on September 25, 2017, 10:23:57 AM
the 5th seat in the V tail Bo is a joke. To carry six all up, incl baggage for a trip, plan on spending $150k out the door, plus $10k/year for mx, plus training, plus gas for two engines. My choice would easily be an early Aerostar non-pressure, non-turbo. they are just sooooooooo cool factor. There are other ways, but I'm not going to put my six people in a Cessna 210, or Cher 6-300. Not gonna do it.
Post by: invflatspin on September 25, 2017, 10:29:45 AM
I suppose if I throttled the IO520 back far enough and ran really LOP I could get it to 9GPH, but that would sort of defeat one of the main reasons for buying a Bo in the first place.
Whatever tunes your piano. Push all colored knobs forward, and leave them there until starting a descent. A lot of Bo pilots do/did that. (see 'fork-tailed doctor killer' ref)
Some people are not anachronisms.
Post by: Jaybird180 on September 25, 2017, 10:49:56 AM
Single engine, six full adult seats is a very narrow and costly market genre. Unless you want to go up to an early A36, you are out of luck. Even the early A36 with the uprated engine is a tough sell for six full size 'mericanz.
the 5th seat in the V tail Bo is a joke. To carry six all up, incl baggage for a trip, plan on spending $150k out the door, plus $10k/year for mx, plus training, plus gas for two engines. My choice would easily be an early Aerostar non-pressure, non-turbo. they are just sooooooooo cool factor. There are other ways, but I'm not going to put my six people in a Cessna 210, or Cher 6-300. Not gonna do it.
I've never been in a Bonanza. And I don't care much for the look of the V-Tail. I like the looks of the (A)-36 models a lot.
Post by: invflatspin on September 25, 2017, 11:53:18 AM
I've never been in a Bonanza. And I don't care much for the look of the V-Tail. I like the looks of the (A)-36 models a lot.
I'm ok with that. So were tens of thousands of other V tail buyers. The V tail Bonanza was the best selling retract for literally decades. Outperformed everything tossed in it's path.
That's why I get lots of questions/snark about mine. 'You can't get 9GPH in a Bonanza!' (yes, I can) 'You can't carry 4 full size adults!' (yes again) 'Every Bonanza tears the tail off every time it leaves the ground!' (better safety record than 210 and Lance) But - don't get in one. Remain proud. Stiff upper lip, and all that.
Post by: Little Joe on September 25, 2017, 12:33:56 PM
You have no taste. You might as well fly a Cessna.
I've never been in a Bonanza. And I don't care much for the look of the V-Tail. I like the looks of the (A)-36 models a lot.
;)
Post by: Anthony on September 25, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
I've never been in a Bonanza. And I don't care much for the look of the V-Tail. I like the looks of the (A)-36 models a lot.
Turn in your Pilot Cert, AND your Man Card. Bite your tongue!!!
Post by: Jaybird180 on September 26, 2017, 06:39:29 AM
I've never flown a Bonanza YET. It's not that I don't want to, just never had the opportunity. I've flown a Mooney though 8)
Post by: nddons on September 27, 2017, 04:07:39 PM
Turn in your Pilot Cert, AND your Man Card. Bite your tongue!!!I did my BFR in a Beech T-34 Mentor last month. Do I get to keep my man card?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 27, 2017, 05:24:29 PM
I did my BFR in a Beech T-34 Mentor last month. Do I get to keep my man card?
You get an extra one, Stan.
Post by: Anthony on September 27, 2017, 05:56:18 PM
I did my BFR in a Beech T-34 Mentor last month. Do I get to keep my man card?
That was a response for not liking the look of the V Tail Bo from someone else. Now, just for questioning me, and my authority, you now need to go buy Tampons, and tell the check out clerk they're for you!
:)
Post by: invflatspin on September 27, 2017, 06:46:50 PM
I did my BFR in a Beech T-34 Mentor last month. Do I get to keep my man card?
Pfft. No tailwheel, no hand prop, meh. A monkey can land a T-34. Call me when you do it in a T-6, or Stearman. 8)
Post by: nddons on September 28, 2017, 05:08:57 AM
That was a response for not liking the look of the V Tail Bo from someone else. Now, just for questioning me, and my authority, you now need to go buy Tampons, and tell the check out clerk they're for you!Only if they do a tampon price shock over the loudspeaker while I'm standing in line.
:)
Post by: nddons on September 28, 2017, 05:21:30 AM
Pfft. No tailwheel, no hand prop, meh. A monkey can land a T-34. Call me when you do it in a T-6, or Stearman. 8)Working on the T-6. In the mean time I'm building up tailwheel time in a Fairchild PT-26. Here's a pic or two of me performing a Stars and Stripes Honor Flight escort a couple weeks ago, where we escort the Delta Airbus past the water salute and onto the runway, take off before the Honor Flight, then do a 180 and do a pass off the Airbus wing so the vets can see us. The other aircraft is our SNJ.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170928/0ac7b7a993cfc5513a3954aa0b4c0ee0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170928/468fea3e8578c902e035ba3866c84470.jpg)
Here's me landing at OSH during AirVenture:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170928/35e8d38bfb9c6cdcf722418f8bd5b38f.jpg)
Post by: invflatspin on September 28, 2017, 06:16:35 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 28, 2017, 06:34:00 AM