PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on March 06, 2024, 07:31:05 AM
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We really need to fix our immigration system. And I'm not just talking about securing the border and sending all illegals home, although that is step one.
But we need to make it easier for immigrants to come in legally. And we need to be able to track them, put them to work, make them pay taxes and hold them accountable for their actions.
We need them.
I walk about 5 miles every morning. There is a lot of growth and construction going on around here. There are armies of guys with shovels laying fiber optic cable. They are all hispanic. There are huge McMansions going up in my neighborhood. All the workers are hispanic. I stopped to ask them a question and none of them could speak English. But they were working really hard and doing a beautiful job. A lot of docks on the intracoastal waterway have been decimated by the past several hurricanes. There are many crews working on them. They are all Hispanic. Two houses on my block are getting new roofs. Dozens of Hispanics with maybe one white guy as a supervisor.
And almost everyone I know that needs a repair man or contractor says they can't find one that can be booked for months or a year out.
When I go to restaurants it takes forever to be seated, even though there are obviously dozens of empty tables. Not enough staff. One restaurant owner told me he could hire as many as he needed, but they have to be able to speak English, thus not enough staff.
I wish we could trade our lazy free loading "natural born citizens" in for hard working immigrants. But they need to learn to speak the damn language.
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We already have a multitude of laws on the books dealing with immigration, and we have laws dealing with illegals.
By simply following the laws as written would stop all of this bullshit. No one in government has the will.
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We already have a multitude of laws on the books dealing with immigration, and we have laws dealing with illegals.
By simply following the laws as written would stop all of this bullshit.
How's that working out?
Yes. We have a lot of laws. Most of them stupid. We need to get rid of the stupid laws and implement some that makes sense.
No one in government has the will.
Agreed.
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How's that working out?
Yes. We have a lot of laws. Most of them stupid. We need to get rid of the stupid laws and implement some that makes sense.Agreed.
So how are our current immigration laws and laws on illegals stupid? Please point out these laws.
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So how are our current immigration laws and laws on illegals stupid? Please point out these laws.
They're not working. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why does it take decades for someone to be legally granted the right to live here permanently?
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They're not working. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why does it take decades for someone to be legally granted the right to live here permanently?
Also, the quota system is stupid.
Anchor baby laws are stupid.
States laws that allow illegals to vote are stupid.
The list is endless.
But if I took the other position you would object to that too.
Here, I'll save you the time:
"Poor me".
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They're not working. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why does it take decades for someone to be legally granted the right to live here permanently?
Laws don't work if they are not enforced. it's just that simple.
And it doesn't take decades to gain citizenship. It's 5 years.
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Also, the quota system is stupid.
As opposed to an open border that allows thousands per day? ::)
Anchor baby laws are stupid.
That has been addressed, but again, congress is unwilling to clear that up as are the courts.
States laws that allow illegals to vote are stupid.
Has nothing to do with immigration laws. Please stay on subject.
The list is endless.
But if I took the other position you would object to that too.
You have yet to articulate which laws are "stupid" and why. So far all you've done is regurgitate a bunch of liberal talking points.
I'm willing to have this conversation if we can stick to the topic and use factual information. Are you?
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This topic said nothing about new laws. It said we need to fix the system. Part of that is to enforce existing laws.
You invented the part about new laws.
But you don’t care about the topic. You just want to nitpick and see whatever the fuck you want to see.
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This topic said nothing about new laws. It said we need to fix the system. Part of that is to enforce existing laws.
You invented the part about new laws.
But you don’t care about the topic. You just want to nitpick and see whatever the fuck you want to see.
OK, the system is based upon laws created by congress. If these laws are followed as written, the system works. Agreed?
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Enforce existing laws including the penalties for hiring illegals, but both Democrats and Establishment Republicans won't do it. Trump will.
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Enforce existing laws including the penalties for hiring illegals, but both Democrats and Establishment Republicans won't do it. Trump will.
So you and Luther think all of the laws that our worthless, uniparty Congress have ginned up are all just fine and we don't need to get rid of any or make any new ones? After all, they are smarter than us.
Yeah, that's a good plan. Good luck getting your roof replaced, or getting a table at your favorite restaurant.
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So you and Luther think all of the laws that our worthless, uniparty Congress have ginned up are all just fine and we don't need to get rid of any or make any new ones? After all, they are smarter than us.
Yeah, that's a good plan. Good luck getting your roof replaced, or getting a table at your favorite restaurant.
So which of these laws do you want changed? And what do you propose the change to be?
-Luther
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So which of these laws do you want changed? And what do you propose the change to be?
-Luther
I've already said what I think. But since you think everything is fine the way it is, I'm not going to change your mind.
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I've already said what I think. But since you think everything is fine the way it is, I'm not going to change your mind.
You actually haven't said anything, except for some fallacies.
Anyway, the immigration laws we have aren't "broken". Neither are the laws that deal with illegal invaders. If the laws are enforced the system works very well.
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You actually haven't said anything, except for some fallacies.
Anyway, the immigration laws we have aren't "broken". Neither are the laws that deal with illegal invaders. If the laws are enforced the system works very well.
If all the laws were enforced, we wouldn't have any problems.
If wishes were horses . . .
I said we have a problem and we need to fix it.
What part of that do you have a problem with? Be specific. I'll wait.
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If all the laws were enforced, we wouldn't have any problems.
If wishes were horses . . .
I said we have a problem and we need to fix it.
What part of that do you have a problem with? Be specific. I'll wait.
I agree. It's a dereliction of duty that the executive, legislative and judicial branches refuse to enforce the laws. The current regime has put the illegal immigration into hyper drive and has essentially crashed the system. Congress refuses to act in their role of oversight, and judicial has also indicated they aren't interested.
Congress is the biggest problem, career politicians. Second is the career bureaucrats that work under the executive ignoring laws and the regulations they wrote.
The only fix is at the ballot box.
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I just did a quit net search for some history of U.S. immigration laws. Didn't bother with the wikipedia entry. Did find a "brief" history at the Cato Institute (a libertarian site):
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/brief-history-us-immigration-policy-colonial-period-present-day#conclusion (https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/brief-history-us-immigration-policy-colonial-period-present-day#conclusion)
It covers the main changes in laws from pre-colonial times up to the beginning of Biden's administration. It seemed a long read and I got to about the 1950s before skipping to the end. I'll go back and read the skipped portion later.
Anyhoo, it seems that immigration laws changed with shifts in wind direction. Cultural fears and prejudices often shaped the laws, other times economic needs and desires. For example, if I understand correctly, Mexican migrants and immigrants were sometimes encouraged, sometimes not - so deported, sometimes both actions happening at the same time. The latter I think was when the Bracero Program and Operation Wetback were operating: "Some illegal immigrants took “a walk‐around the statute” to gain a bracero worker visa—a process where they were driven down to the Mexican border by the INS or Border Patrol and made to take one step across the border and then immediately reenter the United States legally with a bracero work visa."
The article seems to conclude current immigration laws are an inconsistent patchwork of past laws in need of correction by congress.
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So you and Luther think all of the laws that our worthless, uniparty Congress have ginned up are all just fine and we don't need to get rid of any or make any new ones? After all, they are smarter than us.
Yeah, that's a good plan. Good luck getting your roof replaced, or getting a table at your favorite restaurant.
The new Uniparty hasn't really touched immigration law. Name any significant changes you think have been passed. The biggest change is NON-ENFORCEMENT.
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The truth is we need immigration. We aren’t making enough of our own babies. There are two things a nation requires if it is to remain dominate on the world stage, strong and safe from attack: Population and wealth. Oh we can talk about how the citizens all need to have guns and so on, but without people the guns are useless. We need young people for defense, and to work to produce the wealth.
There is no indication that the crash in young Americans’ desire to reproduce is going to change any time soon. And no indication that the frightening lack of interest in joining the military is going to change. If our young adults refuse to make more young people, we need to import them.
The problem is that immigration is good only if they assimilate. They must embrace our system of government and share our values, generally. Otherwise it’s not immigration, it’s a cultural and eventually, a literal takeover.
Example, sharia law. We’re seeing it in Europe. When masses come in and set up communities that retain all the old customs and form of governance and eventually worm their way into the existing power structure, they affect change in the host country. Maybe the change isn’t good or bad, but the point is, if you like your country, its culture and form of government, you don’t want some outside force to take it over.
What’s the difference between immigrants that assimilate and immigrants that don’t? As far as I can tell two main things: 1. If they must work to survive, they will within a generation or two embrace the host country and its values. Example, the Irish. Another example: Mexicans who aren’t criminal gangsters but who just want to work, within a generation or two become fully assimilated. (This doesn’t mean they don’t bring cultural enrichment. It means they are paying taxes and become more or less “American” in their values.) But if they are supported by government handouts, they don’t assimilate because they don’t have to. This is a huge problem in Europe.
2. If a group has a strong fundamentalist ideology, then it will not embrace “Western decadence” but will self isolate and retain a separate culture despite being hard workers. Biggest example: The Amish. Some Jewish sects. (Although they aren’t immigrants at this point.) But these two basically just want to be left alone and aren’t trying to change the host country’s constitutional framework. Muslims are a different story. When they come and set up large communities, they start talking about integrating their “law” into the host system. It’s their literal religious mission to change their environment into one of Islamic rule.
So a successful legal immigration system will carefully vet newcomers, will require them to work, will require them to learn about our system of government, swear allegiance to it, and will be mindful of allowing large influxes of groups with fascist theocratic ideology. And it needs to do this much more efficiently than we are now.
Simultaneously we MUST shut down the illegal invasion. Station machine gun nests all along the border and send a clear message. Then invite them to apply legally.
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In 1968-69 I worked at an evergreen nursery. Every summer a group of migrants came to the nursery and worked through the summer and then went back to Mexico for the winter. The nursery actually had housing for them.
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The new Uniparty hasn't really touched immigration law. Name any significant changes you think have been passed. The biggest change is NON-ENFORCEMENT.
How many times do I have to say it? I never brought up new laws. I only responded to irrelevant questions. I said we have a problem and we have to fix it. YES! Enforcement is a big part of it.
But you don't really care about what I said, do you? You just want to criticize.
Tell me you don't think we have an immigration problem, and try to type it with a straight face.
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In 1968-69 I worked at an evergreen nursery. Every summer a group of migrants came to the nursery and worked through the summer and then went back to Mexico for the winter. The nursery actually had housing for them.
There is a large corporate owned indoor tomato grow operation in my town a few miles from my house. They have dorms and a soccer field for the migrant workers.
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How many times do I have to say it? I never brought up new laws. I only responded to irrelevant questions. I said we have a problem and we have to fix it. YES! Enforcement is a big part of it.
But you don't really care about what I said, do you? You just want to criticize.
Tell me you don't think we have an immigration problem, and try to type it with a straight face.
Please highlight any part of my post that criticized you. Your persecution complex is showing again. ::)
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There is a large corporate owned indoor tomato grow operation in my town a few miles from my house. They have dorms and a soccer field for the migrant workers.
So why aren't they being prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens?
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In 1968-69 I worked at an evergreen nursery. Every summer a group of migrants came to the nursery and worked through the summer and then went back to Mexico for the winter. The nursery actually had housing for them.
There is such a thing as temporary work visas. Nothing wrong with that. Other than the competition for wages. Americans demand higher wages and migrants accept less, which is a large part of the problem. This is due to asymmetry in the two economies. Minimum wage laws in the U.S., differentials in standard of living, cost of living, and so on.
The American consumer demands low prices, putting pressure on corporations to minimize cost by hiring cheap labor. The American consumer has also screwed itself in this manner by insisting on cheap Chinese made shit thereby destroying local manufacturing bases around the country. They’re not entirely to blame; government overregulation is also largely responsible.
The American consumer also destroyed mom and pop small businesses on Main Street by transferring all their buying to Walmart, who in turn stopped inventorying American made shit and switched to substandard Chinese crap, thereby ensuring an endless loop of trashing and re-buying the same items instead of investing in a well made piece that lasted a generation. Of course for that traditional quality American made paradigm to work, you have to have an expanding population, otherwise there’s no market to sell your well made long lasting stuff to and you go out of business. And here we are. Once again, Americans are screwing themselves by not having babies.
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So why aren't the being prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens?
Don't know. It's a Canada owned company, so they probably paid their dictator loving PM to beg Biden and the DOJ to leave them alone? Honestly, we don't have any problems with them, and they keep to themselves. It's Obama's sons from Detroit and Cleveland that come to the amusement park and indoor waterparks that cause the problems around us.
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Don't know. It's a Canada owned company, so they probably paid their dictator loving PM to beg Biden and the DOJ to leave them alone? Honestly, we don't have any problems with them, and they keep to themselves. It's Obama's sons from Detroit and Cleveland that come to the amusement park and indoor waterparks that cause the problems around us.
I suspect the reason for not cracking down on companies hiring illegal aliens is that if they do, and companies are forced to pay Americans American wages, prices will rise by a lot creating unhappiness among the people with whomever is the current political regime. If they can even get Americans to lower themselves to picking crops and shingling roofs.
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The article seems to conclude current immigration laws are an inconsistent patchwork of past laws in need of correction by congress.
So what are the inconsistency in the laws that need correction? A foreign national wants to come to the US and become a permanent resident that will eventually lead to naturalization. What needs correction in the laws that define the process that would prevent this person from achieving citizenship?
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Unfortunately the communist have blurred the difference between illegal immigration (invaders) and immigration, so much so that people can't understand the difference.
What we have right now isn't covered under the immigration laws, policy and procedures. It's an outright invasion of our country, and is being promoted by the president. What FJB has done, and is still doing rises to high crimes and misdemeanors, yet congress is too feckless to do anything about it.
We actually have laws to deal with people illegally entering our country, but again the laws are ignored. We now have legions of military aged men we know nothing about inside our country, as well as people associated with terrorist groups. Add in that countries like Venezuela have emptied their prisons by sending them here as we witness crime rising.
Next on the agenda is the communist in congress will demand amnesty for all the "newcomers".
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I suspect the reason for not cracking down on companies hiring illegal aliens is that if they do, and companies are forced to pay Americans American wages, prices will rise by a lot creating unhappiness among the people with whomever is the current political regime. If they can even get Americans to lower themselves to picking crops and shingling roofs.
I live in a large farming area. My house is less than 100 yards from 100s of farmed acres, some of it farmed by my extended family. Across the street from the tomato farm is a company that makes the majority of aluminum cans used in North America, and they are expanding. And the city next to me is building a large data center. A hard working American near me doesn't need to pick crops if they don't want to and unless it is the family business. And I don't think there was 1 non American who re-shingled my roof 4 years ago. I live in a very unique part of Ohio.
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How is it Trump was able to stem the flow while Biden cannot? Maybe this should be in green
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I don't think Trump airlined in over 300,000 under cover either.
We have FJB ignoring laws, endangering states by not providing security under the law in defiance of his oath, bragging about defying the supreme court, not to mention rooms full of evidence of bribery, diverting funding from other agencies to give to the invaders, yet congress still just can't seem to find a reason to impeach the bastard.
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I live in a large farming area. My house is less than 100 yards from 100s of farmed acres, some of it farmed by my extended family. Across the street from the tomato farm is a company that makes the majority of aluminum cans used in North America, and they are expanding. And the city next to me is building a large data center. A hard working American near me doesn't need to pick crops if they don't want to and unless it is the family business. And I don't think there was 1 non American who re-shingled my roof 4 years ago. I live in a very unique part of Ohio.
Maybe it varies by area. My sister watched a lot of renovation in her neighborhood in NC and told me, “The Mexicans do the roofing, the blacks do the framing, and the whites do the plumbing and electric.” Just her observations but it seemed the same here when our neighbor built their house. Before anyone screams racism, these job choices are the workers’. The contractors will hire anyone who is qualified and shows up not drunk.
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The truth of our immigration problem is found in this simple phrase.
The democrat communist party is a cabal of traitors committing treason.
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The truth of our immigration problem is found in this simple phrase.
The democrat communist party is a cabal of traitors committing treason.
Biden deliberately did this himself on his first day in office when he reversed Trump’s executive orders which were doing an acceptable job throttling the flow. Biden is a traitor to the United States. Or whoever the hell pulls his strings.
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Maybe it varies by area. My sister watched a lot of renovation in her neighborhood in NC and told me, “The Mexicans do the roofing, the blacks do the framing, and the whites do the plumbing and electric.” Just her observations but it seemed the same here when our neighbor built their house. Before anyone screams racism, these job choices are the workers’. The contractors will hire anyone who is qualified and shows up not drunk.
We still have plenty of lazy white people here, don't get me wrong. You still see Mexicans on construction crews here, but they are still mostly working the large corporate farms. Cedar Point amusement park, about 15 minutes from me, is starting their summer hiring. 5000+ people. They hire a lot of people from Europe for the summer and have their own dorms, too. They can't get enough locals to staff it anymore.
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I don't think Trump airlined in over 300,000 under cover either.
We have FJB ignoring laws, endangering states by not providing security under the law in defiance of his oath, bragging about defying the supreme court, not to mention rooms full of evidence of bribery, diverting funding from other agencies to give to the invaders, yet congress still just can't seem to find a reason to impeach the bastard.
I think border states should do their own enforcement, like TX is trying to do. Ignore Federal law and kick the Feds out.
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U think border states should do their own enforcement, like TX is trying to do. Ignore Federal law and kick the Feds out.
Us Texans are pretty fired up about this.
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U think border states should do their own enforcement, like TX is trying to do. Ignore Federal law and kick the Feds out.
I think it's a shame they have to, but YES. I think they should be allowed to.
The Feds should either be in there helping or leave. They shouldn't be obstructing.
I think it's great that States like Florida and Tennessee are sending in their National Guard troops to help.
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I think it's a shame they have to, but YES. I think they should be allowed to.
The Feds should either be in there helping or leave. They shouldn't be obstructing.
I think it's great that States like Florida and Tennessee are sending in their National Guard troops to help.
It’s one thing for Biden and the feds to ignore the border and fail to defend it. It is quite another for them to actively obstruct Texas’s efforts to defend the border which is not only the U.S. border, but also Texas’s border which are the property lines of private citizens whose lands are being overrun.
Biden is suing Texas to stop our efforts, federal agents are cutting the wire we put up; this cannot be seen as anything but outright hostility. The Biden administration is behaving like an enemy of Texas. There is no other way to look at it.
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It's Article 4, Section 4, Clause 2 of the constitution.
and [the United States] shall protect each of them [the States] against Invasion
FJB has failed, along with congress. They all need to be removed from office.
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It's Article 4, Section 4, Clause 2 of the constitution.
FJB has failed, along with congress. They all need to be removed from office.
They are committing sabotage. They are undermining the safety and sovereignty of the nation. Criminal charges need to be brought.
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Brought by who though? That's the question, who can bring charges against the executive branch of the Government?
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Brought by who though? That's the question, who can bring charges against the executive branch of the Government?
Congress?
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The Feds are purposely putting American Citizens at great risk, directly opposite of what they are sqoen to do.
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Brought by who though? That's the question, who can bring charges against the executive branch of the Government?
Under the constitution, congress has oversight. But we see that congress is complicit as well. Welcome to the constitutional crisis that began on Nov 4th, 2020.
The founders gave us an option if it ever got this bad, but the will is simply not there.
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The SOB was a criminal as well as being in our country ILLEGALLY. Apologizing to that murdering piece of shit is going way to far.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13178043/joe-biden-wrong-laken-riley-illegal.html
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(https://i.imgur.com/hFlqMRE.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/gdcDacY.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/SF8FOe5.gif)
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1765709918403793160
This guy gets it.
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The Democrats and Establishment Republicans are just criminals at this point.
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The SOB was a criminal as well as being in our country ILLEGALLY. Apologizing to that murdering piece of shit is going way to far.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13178043/joe-biden-wrong-laken-riley-illegal.html
I never treat migrants with disrespect either (until they earn it).
But Illegal Aliens are another matter. They have already broken the law just by being here.
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https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1767246713662722463
For you no Twitter people, it’s Elon commenting:
“More Presidential and House of Representatives electoral votes will be assigned to the new illegals Biden has let in than the population of 40 US states.“
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Oh Joy.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/biden-admin-wants-free-medical-housing-for-5-7m-migrants/ar-AA1ioSNN
The Biden administration plans to provide free medical services, food, and housing to 5.7 million migrants.
Biden also aims to provide legal assistance, psychosocial services, therapeutic services, and repatriation and reintegration services.
The plan is part of the “Release and Reporting Management” program overseen by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
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In other news, he's proposing a $7.3T budget for FY2025
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In other news, he's proposing a $7.3T budget for FY2025
And he'll get it.
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And he'll get it.
If he does, we are truly beyond f*cked.
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Who's gonna stop it? The republicans?
Speaker Johnson will cave. The RINO Caucus will join the democrats and vote it through.
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Who's gonna stop it? The republicans?
Speaker Johnson will cave. The RINO Caucus will join the democrats and vote it through.
We're living in clown world. The U.S. is no more. Gone. Forget it. We've got to start the next phase of the North American Territory. Maybe we can name it El Mondo Tres.
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Let's not forget, we haven't actually passed a budget in years. We go from CR to CR, passed in the dead of the night to avert a shutdown. Also we currently have no debt ceiling in place.
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Q: When was a single appropriation bill last passed, or multiple installments together, covering the entire federal government for one entire fiscal year?
It appears that FY1997 was the last time everything was completed before the start of a fiscal year. While the following is from 2016, congress.gov shows the use of continuing resolutions in subsequent years.
From The Congressional Appropriations Process: An Introduction:
In only four instances since FY1977 (FY1977, FY1989, FY1995, and FY1997) were all regular appropriations enacted by the start of the fiscal year. In all other instances, at least one CR was necessary to fund governmental activities until action on the remaining regular appropriations bills was completed.
https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/77948/last-real-us-budget-before-2023#:~:text=It%20appears%20that%20FY1997%20was%20the%20last%20time,completed%20before%20the%20start%20of%20a%20fiscal%20year.
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Sweden is a small country. Why does it take so long for people to realize that uncontrolled immigration will result in a complete breakdown and takeover?
https://modernity.news/2024/03/19/ive-changed-my-mind-swedish-open-borders-mp-makes-complete-u-turn/
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Sweden is a small country. Why does it take so long for people to realize that uncontrolled immigration will result in a complete breakdown and takeover?
https://modernity.news/2024/03/19/ive-changed-my-mind-swedish-open-borders-mp-makes-complete-u-turn/
Stupid people want to seem mainstream and often ignore the truth to avoid going against the bullshit that the media claims is popular and acceptable.
Look how often mikey would show up, babble some bullshit lame stream talking point, call us names for not embracing his bullshit liberal lie, and run off and hide to avoid answering questions about his latest stupidity.