PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on May 06, 2016, 08:53:14 AM
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So the US has 94 MILLION people not in the work force, but we have 1/4 of that number of foreign workers here.
Many countries around the world have immigration policies that state as long as there is a citizen of that country that can perform the job then no visas will be issued to foreigners, period.
Why does the US continue to give away our jobs? (I know the answer, but it still is total BS)
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/06/foreign-born-employment-u-s-dips-slightly-record-hits-25460000/
The number of foreign-born people employed in the United States dipped slightly last month compared to the record high set in March, but remained above 25 million mark, according to data released Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The BLS reports that 25,460,000 foreign-born people had a job in the U.S. during the month of April, a decrease of 281,000 compared to the month of March when a record 25,741,000 foreign-born people were employed in the U.S.
The BLS does not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, defining the foreign-born as:
Those residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. That is, they were born outside the United States or one of its outlying areas such as Puerto Rico or Guam, to parents neither of whom was a U.S. citizen. The native born are persons who were born in the United States or one of its outlying areas such as Puerto Rico or Guam or who were born abroad of at least one parent who was a U.S. citizen.
The not-seasonally-adjusted unemployment rate among the foreign born was 4.3 percent.
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We do it because 1) corporations are too cheap to train people and 2) Foreign workers have no compunctions about lying on their resumes to get hired. Because of intense competition, it's practically a cultural expectation for them at home. Every time I have to work with them, it's apparent to me that they're trying to learn on the job.
We are seeing it all the time right now. Customers ask why we're so expensive except that we've actually lowered our rates, just not enough to compete with Indian firms operating in the US. A very high number of them are breaking the H1B laws and we know this because their offered hourly rates are about the same as our cost of hiring college graduates. The only way they could do that is by paying well under the going market rate for resources.
Fortunately we are very large and able to pivot to other areas but we won't be able to do that forever.
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I am not xenophobic from LEGAL immigrants. I applaud them for coming in the right way, and wish them well. I have noticed in my area, an upscale, suburban location, a very, very large amount of people, seemingly from India, Pakistan, Singapore, and I presume, other neighboring countries. They are polite, friendly, prosperous, and I believe, an asset to the community. My area includes a lot of high tech, pharmaceuticals, and financial services.
Are companies importing these workers on H1B1 visas and paying them a bit less than American workers to do technical jobs, or are American corporations having a hard time finding people with these skills? Is this a national trend?
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They aren't paying "a bit less" they pay a lot less. They don't have the skills either, they're lying to get hired. Companies cannot find people to do the work because they have turned preferences into requirements and the only person qualified to be hired is the person who just left the job. Sometimes that person doesn't even meet all the requirements.
I am not xenophobic either. But I do think companies should be required to hire an American for a job first, because this is America. We should not be importing bodies to fill out jobs and then have citizens and legal residents sitting idle. In addition to all the economic problems it causes, it is disrespectful.
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They aren't paying "a bit less" they pay a lot less. They don't have the skills either, they're lying to get hired. Companies cannot find people to do the work because they have turned preferences into requirements and the only person qualified to be hired is the person who just left the job. Sometimes that person doesn't even meet all the requirements.
I am not xenophobic either. But I do think companies should be required to hire an American for a job first, because this is America. We should not be importing bodies to fill out jobs and then have citizens and legal residents sitting idle. In addition to all the economic problems it causes, it is disrespectful.
Absolutely!
There are too many "loopholes" being used to hand out visas and let foreigners in to take jobs. Companies try to make lame arguments about how they can't find someone (citizen) because no one is qualified then bring in a foreigner at a lot lower wage.
Other countries protect their citizens and their right to work, it's time the US wakes up.
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Absolutely!
There are too many "loopholes" being used to hand out visas and let foreigners in to take jobs. Companies try to make lame arguments about how they can't find someone (citizen) because no one is qualified then bring in a foreigner at a lot lower wage.
Other countries protect their citizens and their right to work, it's time the US wakes up.
I don't know if it would apply in this instance, but this is the reason we need to lower or eliminate the minimum wage. Americans need to be able to obtain low paying jobs that will allow them to learn valuable skills and get a foothold with a business or company. I worked my way through trade school at a minimum wage job. That allowed me to get the education that allowed me to get a trainee job that allowed me to climb the ladders and allowed me to retire without needing SS.
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I don't know if it would apply in this instance, but this is the reason we need to lower or eliminate the minimum wage. Americans need to be able to obtain low paying jobs that will allow them to learn valuable skills and get a foothold with a business or company. I worked my way through trade school at a minimum wage job. That allowed me to get the education that allowed me to get a trainee job that allowed me to climb the ladders and allowed me to retire without needing SS.
It's just simple math. When a country imports foreigners to work for less and allows illegals to come in and work for less it takes away jobs from citizens.
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Absolutely!
There are too many "loopholes" being used to hand out visas and let foreigners in to take jobs. Companies try to make lame arguments about how they can't find someone (citizen) because no one is qualified then bring in a foreigner at a lot lower wage.
Other countries protect their citizens and their right to work, it's time the US wakes up.
Agreed!!
Such scoundrels should be held responsible for the high unemployment rate among American workers.
"Earlier on Thursday, The New York Times reported the real estate billionaire has sought more than 500 visas for foreign workers at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach since 2010.
"Throughout his campaign, Trump has vowed to Americans he will bring back jobs that have been taken by undocumented immigrants. But, according to the Times, federal records indicate only 17 Americans have been hired for jobs as wait staff, cooks and housekeepers—out of nearly U.S. applicants and referals—at Trump’s club."
http://www.newsweek.com/debate-moment-trump-defends-hiring-foreign-workers-430572
Or at least should be held responsible for being a hypocrite by saying one thing and doing another.
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Agreed!!
Such scoundrels should be held responsible for the high unemployment rate among American workers.
No problem with that.
Funny how are resident Canadian is avoiding the subject.
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No problem with that.
Funny how are resident Canadian is avoiding the subject.
:) :)
That is a might curious,
but I suspect that Jeff is extremely qualified for his job, whatever that is.
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:) :)
That is a might curious,
but I suspect that Jeff is extremely qualified for his job, whatever that is.
Matters not if he is qualified or not. There are American citizens that are qualified and should have preference.
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Matters not if he is qualified or not. There are American citizens that are qualified and should have preference.
As some of our Lawyer friends might say "assumes facts not in evidence",
but then again, I really don't know if there are any facts in evidence.
And even if there are Americans that are "qualified", I have no problem hiring anyone that is "more qualified". Even if they are foreign.
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And even if there are Americans that are "qualified", I have no problem hiring anyone that is "more qualified". Even if they are foreign.
I have a problem with that. If a citizen is qualified, or can get qualified, then they should have priorities in gaining employment, period. Citizenship should have certain rights and privileges with preferential employment being one of those.
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Matters not if he is qualified or not. There are American citizens that are qualified and should have preference.
IIRC, give it a little time and JeffDG will be a US citizen.
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IIRC, give it a little time and JeffDG will be a US citizen.
Again, I could care less. The process of how a foreigner comes into the US and takes a job a US citizen could do is wrong, period.
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Again, I could care less. The process of how a foreigner comes into the US and takes a job a US citizen could do is wrong, period.
I'll forgive you for disagreeing with me this time! ;)
But I still believe that competing for a job based on qualification is a good thing, as long as the foreigner is here legally. The added productivity alone makes it worth it. And if it makes a motivated American try just a little harder, then so much the better.
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I've remained quiet as the ignorance on display with respect to the legal immigration process on display is highly amusing.
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I'll forgive you for disagreeing with me this time! ;)
But I still believe that competing for a job based on qualification is a good thing, as long as the foreigner is here legally. The added productivity alone makes it worth it. And if it makes a motivated American try just a little harder, then so much the better.
If the foreigner is already here legally, yes.
But the discussion is bringing a foreigner here and getting them a visa so they may take a job that a citizen is qualified for. That is flat out wrong, period.
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If the foreigner is already here legally, yes.
But the discussion is bringing a foreigner here and getting them a visa so they may take a job that a citizen is qualified for. That is flat out wrong, period.
I'd mention that what you describe is illegal, but you have retreated to your safe-space where you don't have to trouble yourself with facts, so why bother.
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I have a problem with that. If a citizen is qualified, or can get qualified, then they should have priorities in gaining employment, period. Citizenship should have certain rights and privileges with preferential employment being one of those.
So I assume you are super critical of Trump for hiring foreign workers for his US hotels and clubs?
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So I assume you are super critical of Trump for hiring foreign workers for his US hotels and clubs?
Is that a problem?
I was critical of GWB for some of the stupid shit he did, but I still supported him for president because I didn't want the alternative.
From what I've seen, no one is perfect and no one is above everyone else. Even Reagan had his faults.
The quest for the ultra pure and rigid ideologue to be president is the equivalent of hunting unicorns.
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Is that a problem?
I was critical of GWB for some of the stupid shit he did, but I still supported him for president because I didn't want the alternative.
From what I've seen, no one is perfect and no one is above everyone else. Even Reagan had his faults.
The quest for the ultra pure and rigid ideologue to be president is the equivalent of hunting unicorns.
So, your boy is totally hypocritical on his signature issue, but you will support him because you're not a "rigid ideologue". I could think of another word starting with "i" to apply.
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I'd mention that what you describe is illegal, but you have retreated to your safe-space where you don't have to trouble yourself with facts, so why bother.
It is not illegal. Companies like Tata, Cognizant and Infosys do it every day. Between these three companies, they bring almost 20% of the H1B workers to the US. They and other companies are gaming the system to not hire Americans in favor of bringing underskilled workers from overseas.
When I say gaming the system, they do recruiting in ways that ensure they do not find qualified candidates at the salaries they want to pay. The combination of the job requirements + salary ensure no American can afford to take the job. Then they bring in inexperienced people from India in mass and throw bodies at the problem.
All legal.
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Mea Culpa, doing math in my head, the 20% number above is wrong. But the general idea is right.
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Then they bring in inexperienced people from India in mass and throw bodies at the problem.
All legal.
But you get the quality you pay for. H1 visas are limited to 65K a year but the majority of them are "imported" on shorter term visas that have a lower skill level requirement that a H1.
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But you get the quality you pay for. H1 visas are limited to 65K a year but the majority of them are "imported" on shorter term visas that have a lower skill level requirement that a H1.
Such as? Maybe F1 student visas, but they don't authorize work except for the school unless they get a very short term OPT (optional practical training) addition to the F1
H1's also require a Labour Condition Assessment to prove that you are paying the H1B worker the prevailing wage.
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But you get the quality you pay for. H1 visas are limited to 65K a year but the majority of them are "imported" on shorter term visas that have a lower skill level requirement that a H1.
85,000 a year, there are an additional 20,000 for those with a master's degree.
I never said that companies were smart about who they hired. If a manager budgeted for 2 million using US labor but can suddenly get it for a million using cheaply imported labor, then if they believe the cheap labor can do the job, they're going to choose the one that makes them look good to their boss. Now all they need is the delivery, which comes across sloppy, at least in the jobs that I've had to go clean up.
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I am not xenophobic from LEGAL immigrants. I applaud them for coming in the right way, and wish them well. I have noticed in my area, an upscale, suburban location, a very, very large amount of people, seemingly from India, Pakistan, Singapore, and I presume, other neighboring countries. They are polite, friendly, prosperous, and I believe, an asset to the community. My area includes a lot of high tech, pharmaceuticals, and financial services.
Are companies importing these workers on H1B1 visas and paying them a bit less than American workers to do technical jobs, or are American corporations having a hard time finding people with these skills? Is this a national trend?
The corps have a hard time finding American workers who will accept the crappy pay rates that they can pay imported "talent".
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Yet another reason to avoid large corps.
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Such as? Maybe F1 student visas, but they don't authorize work except for the school unless they get a very short term OPT (optional practical training) addition to the F1
H1's also require a Labour Condition Assessment to prove that you are paying the H1B worker the prevailing wage.
L1's - and can go 3 to 5 years.
"Intracompany Transferee. Introduction. The L-1 visa facilitates the temporary transfer of foreign worker in the managerial, executive or specialized knowledge category to the U.S. to continue employment with an office of the same employer, its parent, branch, subsidiary or affiliate."
That's why companies like TATA and others have US based 'offices' in places like Santa Clara, Phoenix, Dallas and other.