PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on November 06, 2015, 09:19:31 AM
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Any Google search will turn up multitudes of articles in the last 3 months or so about the Whistleblower that Robert Kennedy helped bring forward.
http://www.thesocialmemo.org/2015/06/cynthia-mckinney-government-is-using.html (http://www.thesocialmemo.org/2015/06/cynthia-mckinney-government-is-using.html)
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Why am I reading anything about 9/11 truther McKinney?
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Why am I reading anything about 9/11 truther McKinney?
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Elaborate?
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She's a wack job.
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McKinney left the plantation (yeah, I know RACIST!) a long time ago. She can't make up her mind "who controls the government". Is it the Jews, AIPAC or some other group du jour? She is one of the most severe leftists out there. Never mind the fact she's a few fries short of a happy meal.
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
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McKinney left the plantation (yeah, I know RACIST!) a long time ago. She can't make up her mind "who controls the government". Is it the Jews, AIPAC or some other group du jour? She is one of the most severe leftists out there. Never mind the fact she's a few fries short of a happy meal.
McKinney makes James Traficant look like a Mensa member.
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Because there was one paper published that said different. The fact that paper has been retracted, and the researcher convicted of falsifying data makes no difference. Plus Jenny McCarthy said so!
Now, can we please get back to complaining about Chemtrails?
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My understanding is that there was CDC data that was disposed of improperly that led to the renewed interest in the link between MMR and Autism.
http://www.eurweb.com/2015/06/the-cdcs-latest-tuskegee-experiment-prompts-open-letter-from-bobby-kennedy-jr/ (http://www.eurweb.com/2015/06/the-cdcs-latest-tuskegee-experiment-prompts-open-letter-from-bobby-kennedy-jr/)
They found a higher incidence of Autism amongst Black Boys than all other groups, and they got rid of the data.
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She's a wack job.
Understatement.
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Is there a special mixture that doctors make sure only blacks receive? Are there marking on the syringe? What if they screw up? Can Whitey sue?
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Is there a special mixture that doctors make sure only blacks receive? Are there marking on the syringe? What if they screw up? Can Whitey sue?
Are you aware of the fact that during clinical trials, there are separate datasets based on ethnicity? Are you aware that certain medications react differently based on ethnicity? So you see, we're not all the same under the hood.
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Is there a special mixture that doctors make sure only blacks receive? Are there marking on the syringe? What if they screw up? Can Whitey sue?
Are you aware of the fact that during clinical trials, there are separate datasets based on ethnicity? Are you aware that certain medications react differently based on ethnicity? So you see, we're not all the same under the hood.
I don't believe that for one second. Age, general health, other meds- sure, but race, I think you are making that up. Cite.
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Is there a special mixture that doctors make sure only blacks receive? Are there marking on the syringe? What if they screw up? Can Whitey sue?
Are you aware of the fact that during clinical trials, there are separate datasets based on ethnicity? Are you aware that certain medications react differently based on ethnicity? So you see, we're not all the same under the hood.
That might be true, but if a white person said that they would be vilified.
Next thing you know, you will be claiming that men and women are not all exactly the same.
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Dr. Stan knows his stuff! Interesting, I was not aware of ethnic differences in reaction to drugs, but that makes sense as some of us have a propensity for certain diseases, so we are physiologically different, and this pharmacologically different.
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I can't believe this still comes up. The guy who authored the report linking autism and vaccines recanted and apologized. But this is still making trouble, and we now have epidemics of diseases that could easily be prevented with vaccines. We had a mumps outbreak in my very own neighborhood. This is the height of utter stupidity.
Moreover, even if the initial report were true, WHICH IT ISN'T!, the documented rate of vaccine-created autism is utterly dwarfed by the rate at which children die from the diseases against which we immunize ourselves. This is just anti-science idiocy, and I am embarrassed to live in a nation where people are dumb enough to believe in it.
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I can't believe this still comes up. The guy who authored the report linking autism and vaccines recanted and apologized. But this is still making trouble, and we now have epidemics of diseases that could easily be prevented with vaccines. We had a mumps outbreak in my very own neighborhood. This is the height of utter stupidity.
Moreover, even if the initial report were true, WHICH IT ISN'T!, the documented rate of vaccine-created autism is utterly dwarfed by the rate at which children die from the diseases against which we immunize ourselves. This is just anti-science idiocy, and I am embarrassed to live in a nation where people are dumb enough to believe in it.
Yea, but dontcha know it's a FedGov conspiracy against black children? :rolleyes:
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Moreover, even if the initial report were true, WHICH IT ISN'T!, the documented rate of vaccine-created autism is utterly dwarfed by the rate at which children die from the diseases against which we immunize ourselves. This is just anti-science idiocy, and I am embarrassed to live in a nation where people are dumb enough to believe in it.
Summed up nicely:
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I see that muslims are rioting and killing over vaccines, claiming they are being poisoned by the west, and no one is getting upset about their "choice..." Hypocrisy thy name is progressive, democrat, and liberal.
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I see that muslims are rioting and killing over vaccines, claiming they are being poisoned by the west, and no one is getting upset about their "choice..." Hypocrisy thy name is progressive, democrat, and liberal.
Actually, the dissent is mainly in Pakistan, where we allegedly used a doctor to hone in on Osama bin Laden so we could carry out our assassination. Now Pakistanis see all medical personnel as agent provocateurs, and want nothing to do with them. It is a really pity, since there is an active Polio outbreak there.
Then again, freedom means the freedom to act foolishly. Enough people are doing it here to have outbreaks of easily eradicated viruses.
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I see that muslims are rioting and killing over vaccines, claiming they are being poisoned by the west, and no one is getting upset about their "choice..." Hypocrisy thy name is progressive, democrat, and liberal.
Actually, the dissent is mainly in Pakistan, where we allegedly used a doctor to hone in on Osama bin Laden so we could carry out our assassination. Now Pakistanis see all medical personnel as agent provocateurs, and want nothing to do with them. It is a really pity, since there is an active Polio outbreak there.
Then again, freedom means the freedom to act foolishly. Enough people are doing it here to have outbreaks of easily eradicated viruses.
Maybe we should stop worrying about protecting stupid people. Why not allow that portion of the gene pool to vanish and strengthen the overall genetic makeup of the species???
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Can we cut the distractions? What about the issue? Are you saying that because this particular article cites her that the issue isn't credible? There are tons of others.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1428491/cdc-whistleblowers-claims-cause-uproar-in-autism-community/)
Massive studies were done on the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - CDC; American academy of Pediatrics; National Academy of Sciences, and the UK National Health Service. All found no link between the vaccine and autism.
So why should we waste our time about the allegation that the Government is using vaccines to give BLACK children autism?
If the link doesn't exist, why should we buy into the racial aspect of this conspiracy theory?
Is there a special mixture that doctors make sure only blacks receive? Are there marking on the syringe? What if they screw up? Can Whitey sue?
Are you aware of the fact that during clinical trials, there are separate datasets based on ethnicity? Are you aware that certain medications react differently based on ethnicity? So you see, we're not all the same under the hood.
I don't believe that for one second. Age, general health, other meds- sure, but race, I think you are making that up. Cite.
Look at the clinical trial results for any pharmaceutical study. They report the data there on response rates.
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I can't believe this still comes up. The guy who authored the report linking autism and vaccines recanted and apologized. But this is still making trouble, and we now have epidemics of diseases that could easily be prevented with vaccines. We had a mumps outbreak in my very own neighborhood. This is the height of utter stupidity.
Moreover, even if the initial report were true, WHICH IT ISN'T!, the documented rate of vaccine-created autism is utterly dwarfed by the rate at which children die from the diseases against which we immunize ourselves. This is just anti-science idiocy, and I am embarrassed to live in a nation where people are dumb enough to believe in it.
You have a source? I'd be interested.
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I can't believe this still comes up. The guy who authored the report linking autism and vaccines recanted and apologized. But this is still making trouble, and we now have epidemics of diseases that could easily be prevented with vaccines. We had a mumps outbreak in my very own neighborhood. This is the height of utter stupidity.
Moreover, even if the initial report were true, WHICH IT ISN'T!, the documented rate of vaccine-created autism is utterly dwarfed by the rate at which children die from the diseases against which we immunize ourselves. This is just anti-science idiocy, and I am embarrassed to live in a nation where people are dumb enough to believe in it.
You have a source? I'd be interested.
I already gave you sources in Post #9. Why don't you post your sources for these pharma clinical studies that you claim prove your point.
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I looked at #9 again and don't see a link.
My suggestion was that you could find ANY pharma study and learn that they do analysis and breakdown for multiple subject types including race (or ethnicity).
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I looked at #9 again and don't see a link.
My suggestion was that you could find ANY pharma study and learn that they do analysis and breakdown for multiple subject types including race (or ethnicity).
So post one that proves the government is giving black kids autism.
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PBS NOVA (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html) debunks the vaccine scam.
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So post one that proves the government is giving black kids autism.
That would require our friend to actually expend some effort rather than just lobbing nonsense in to stir the pot.
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PBS NOVA (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html) debunks the vaccine scam.
You mean that far right organization PBS? Pffffftt
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PBS NOVA (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html) debunks the vaccine scam.
You mean that far right organization PBS? Pffffftt
LOL
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Well, of course if you want to ignore all science, you can claim anything you like.
Vaccines do not cause autism. Period, not black kids, white kids, Asian kids, nobody.
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Well, of course if you want to ignore all science, you can claim anything you like.
Vaccines do not cause autism. Period, not black kids, white kids, Asian kids, nobody.
Did you see the video?
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Did you see the video?
As a rule, I consider Robert Kennedy a nutcase on par with Alex Jones, and don't give him clicks
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As a rule, I consider Robert Kennedy a nutcase on par with Alex Jones, and don't give him clicks
Noted.
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He's a looney!
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He's a looney!
As a rule, I consider Robert Kennedy a nutcase on par with Alex Jones, and don't give him clicks
What makes him so?
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What makes him so?
The fact that he thinks vaccines cause autism, for one.
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Circular argument. Thanks for playing.
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There is an argument that children vaccinated with vaccines made with fetal tissue have a higher tendency to autism.
The people making that argument often point to the Quakers who refuse vaccines of that kind, and are said to have a remarkably low incidence of autism.
I don't know either way but tend to distrust anyone who demands everyone comply with vaccination simply because they've been told to.
It is hard for me to understand why people think they have veto rights over parents who choose to vaccinate, or not to vaccinate as they see fit.
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there is 10 minutes I won't get back. If there was any doubt that the guy is whacked...
Not one reference to any study about vaccines giving anyone Autism.
Where's the data? Which study shows that it's bad?
Where is the proof that all the other studies about vaccines and causes of Autism are flawed?
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The argument here is not over the concept of vaccination: to expose the body to a small dose of the illness to teach the immune system to recognize what in larger, uncontrolled doses can make the person ill. The argument is regarding (as I understand) the adjuvants (enhancers) and impurities from poor manufacturing and quality control and THEN the government has given blanket tort immunity to the pharmaceutical companies when there is a legitimate adverse reaction to a patient. Note: adverse reactions are an undeniable fact of vaccine administration, anyone that denies that is a nutjob.
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There is an argument that children vaccinated with vaccines made with fetal tissue have a higher tendency to autism.
The people making that argument often point to the Quakers who refuse vaccines of that kind, and are said to have a remarkably low incidence of autism.
What are the causes of Autism? anyone know?
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The argument here is not over the concept of vaccination: to expose the body to a small dose of the illness to teach the immune system to recognize what in larger, uncontrolled doses can make the person I'll. The argument is regarding (as I understand) the adjuvants (enhancers) and impurities from poor manufacturing and quality control and THEN the government has given blanket tort immunity to the pharmaceutical companies when there is a legitimate adverse reaction to a patient. Note: adverse reactions are an undeniable fact of vaccine administration, anyone that denies that is a nutjob.
The tort immunity was given in response to lawyers playing lawsuit lottery with the exceedingly small percentage of people who had genuine adverse reactions AND all the people who thought they had an adverse reaction to a vaccine (MY KID DEVELOPED BREATHING PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE ....it couldn't have had anything to do with my 3 pack a day smoking habit)
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The tort immunity was given in response to lawyers playing lawsuit lottery with the exceedingly small percentage of people who had genuine adverse reactions AND all the people who thought they had an adverse reaction to a vaccine (MY KID DEVELOPED BREATHING PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE ....it couldn't have had anything to do with my 3 pack a day smoking habit)
when Congress did that it removed any avenue for redress of grievance. The way you solve the legal lottery is by licensing actions not by putting all citizenry in a bucket that says NO.
It also disincentivized Pharma companies from spending on QC.
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Like I said, I have no idea either way.
What I object to is the idea of forcing people to comply, no matter what, and ridiculing anyone who dares to think for themselves.
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It is hard for me to understand why people think they have veto rights over parents who choose to vaccinate, or not to vaccinate as they see fit.
If everybody agreed with that in the 1950's, polio would never have been defeated.
Sometimes you gotta choose between "freedom" and...
(http://cdn.wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/iron-lung2.png)
Easy choice to my mind.
Karen just told me her mom was an iron lung nurse. Not exactly the good old days.
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If everybody agreed with that in the 1950's, polio would never have been defeated.
Sometimes you gotta choose between "freedom" and...
(http://cdn.wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/iron-lung2.png)
Easy choice to my mind.
Karen just told me her mom was an iron lung nurse. Not exactly the good old days.
If the vaccine is so effective, why should I care if my neighbor chooses not to get it? It should be his choice.
Children's vaccination schedule is also a macroeconomic decision- kid gets sick, parents stay home from work, economy suffers. It's all a game to keep you A SLAVE.
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If the vaccine is so effective, why should I care if my neighbor chooses not to get it? It should be his choice.
Herd immunity. It's a thing.
Children's vaccination schedule is also a macroeconomic decision- kid gets sick, parents stay home from work, economy suffers. It's all a game to keep you A SLAVE.
That's idiotic.
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Herd immunity. It's a thing.
That's idiotic.
I'm not convinced you understand herd immunity. What's idiotic?
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there is 10 minutes I won't get back. If there was any doubt that the guy is whacked...
Not one reference to any study about vaccines giving anyone Autism.
Where's the data? Which study shows that it's bad?
Where is the proof that all the other studies about vaccines and causes of Autism are flawed?
You took the words right out of my mouth. 10 minutes of my life - gone.
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You took the words right out of my mouth. 10 minutes of my life - gone.
Actually he did reference a study- a CDC study. He says the data was manipulated, yielding a skewed result. I saw something that recently a European court ruled that MMR was a factor in autism. America is always late when it comes to protect the health of the populace (with some exceptions to California).
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Herd immunity. It's a thing.
That's idiotic.
Exactly. On both points.
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Actually he did reference a study- a CDC study. He says the data was manipulated, yielding a skewed result. I saw something that recently a European court ruled that MMR was a factor in autism. America is always late when it comes to protect the health of the populace (with some exceptions to California).
which study?
what proof that data was manipulated?
yeah, california is so awesome (remember MBTE? oops)
All that video gave us was nonsense aimed at ignorant suspectible people.
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Children's vaccination schedule is also a macroeconomic decision- kid gets sick, parents stay home from work, economy suffers. It's all a game to keep you A SLAVE.
suuuuuuuurrrrrreeeee. Trying to keep children healthy is a way to keep you a slave.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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You took the words right out of my mouth. 10 minutes of my life - gone.
I warned y'all
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Actually he did reference a study- a CDC study. He says the data was manipulated, yielding a skewed result. I saw something that recently a European court ruled that MMR was a factor in autism. America is always late when it comes to protect the health of the populace (with some exceptions to California).
One study ever has linked vaccines and autism. The study has been thoroughly discredited for such things as falsification of data, and the authors have either retracted their support or been run out of medicine. It was funded be trial lawyers looking to make a ton of money suing vaccine mfgrs.
On the other side there have been hundreds of studies that show zero, zip, nada, no, etc. such link.
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I'm not convinced you understand herd immunity. What's idiotic?
And I'm not convinced you understand idiocy.
There will always be some members of society who cannot be vaccinated - too young, immunocompromised, allergic to the vaccine, etc. Their lives may depend on others getting vaccinated. Sometimes doing things you'd rather not do is a price of living in a society.
What's idiotic is your assertion that some doctors/immunologists sat down and came up with a vaccination schedule, all to ensure that Fast Eddie is kept "A SLAVE".
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The study has been thoroughly discredited for such things as falsification of data, and the authors have either retracted their support or been run out of medicine.
Pretty sure it was a single author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/)
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damn, these vast right-wing conspiracies are ALL over the place....
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Like I said, I have no idea either way.
What I object to is the idea of forcing people to comply, no matter what, and ridiculing anyone who dares to think for themselves.
Sometimes the idiots need us to think for them. This would include anti-vaxxers. But anyway, as far as I am aware, no one is forcibly vaccinated.
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One study ever has linked vaccines and autism. The study has been thoroughly discredited for such things as falsification of data, and the authors have either retracted their support or been run out of medicine. It was funded be trial lawyers looking to make a ton of money suing vaccine mfgrs.
On the other side there have been hundreds of studies that show zero, zip, nada, no, etc. such link.
Yea, but, but Louis Farrakhan said it was so. HATER!
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The fact that he thinks vaccines cause autism, for one.
And that it targets black babies for two.
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Children's vaccination schedule is also a macroeconomic decision- kid gets sick, parents stay home from work, economy suffers. It's all a game to keep you A SLAVE.
Holy shit..... :o
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But anyway, as far as I am aware, no one is forcibly vaccinated.
No, but they are coerced, which is almost the same result.
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And I'm not convinced you understand idiocy.
There will always be some members of society who cannot be vaccinated - too young, immunocompromised, allergic to the vaccine, etc. Their lives may depend on others getting vaccinated. Sometimes doing things you'd rather not do is a price of living in a society.
What's idiotic is your assertion that some doctors/immunologists sat down and came up with a vaccination schedule, all to ensure that Fast Eddie is kept "A SLAVE".
No, that's the public benefit, a working economy because PARENTS of school age children are the majority of the workforce. If you take them away from work, the economy suffers. It's simple. Doctors don't think like this but economic strategists do and they insert this into lobbying packages that go to the government to show the economic impact of failure to mass vaccinate, hence the government takes the decision away from YOU as an individual in the interests of the society as a whole. There are many well-meaning people involved but the net result is WRONG.
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Sorry.
The phrase "off the rails" just sprang into my mind.
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No, but they are coerced, which is almost the same result.
It is not the same, and they deserve to be coerced.
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No, that's the public benefit, a working economy because PARENTS of school age children are the majority of the workforce. If you take them away from work, the economy suffers. It's simple. Doctors don't think like this but economic strategists do and they insert this into lobbying packages that go to the government to show the economic impact of failure to mass vaccinate, hence the government takes the decision away from YOU as an individual in the interests of the society as a whole. There are many well-meaning people involved but the net result is WRONG.
Feel free to find your own deserted island where you will be free from common sense societal norms. And again, no one is forcefully vaccinated.
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I just want to reiterate and dispel some of the DISINFORMATION given on this thread. This new research has nothing to Dr. Wakefield. A CDC Whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson came forward, exposing the data manipulation. Subsequently, there were 5 inquiries by Governmental agencies including the Senate who concluded that the CDC has financial conflict of interest that makes it a "cesspool of corruption".
Clearly, many of you have made up your mind on the issue, and that's fine. But you have no right to use that to spread disinformation.
Secondly, If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to a parent tell you that they watched their child change- NOT OVER A PROTRACTED PERIOD OF TIME, but RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES in the doctor's office upon receiving a shot, you might be swayed to believe that SOMETHING IS GOING ON.
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Feel free to find your own deserted island where you will be free from common sense societal norms. And again, no one is forcefully vaccinated.
Depends upon your definition of Force. If what you say is true, there would be no need for Pres. Clinton to sign Executive Order 13139, which specifically prohibited DoD from giving experimental vaccines to troops, giving our service members the same rights under 10 USC 1107. That definition applies also to unlicensed, off label or unapproved use of ANY vaccine. There was a court case fought from 2003-2005, called Doe V Rumsfeld in DC Circuit court, showing that DoD was IN FACT violating the EO and the Federal Regulation.
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I just want to reiterate and dispel some of the DISINFORMATION given on this thread. This new research has nothing to Dr. Wakefield. A CDC Whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson came forward, exposing the data manipulation. Subsequently, there were 5 inquiries by Governmental agencies including the Senate who concluded that the CDC has financial conflict of interest that makes it a "cesspool of corruption".
Clearly, many of you have made up your mind on the issue, and that's fine. But you have no right to use that to spread disinformation.
Secondly, If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to a parent tell you that they watched their child change- NOT OVER A PROTRACTED PERIOD OF TIME, but RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES in the doctor's office upon receiving a shot, you might be swayed to believe that SOMETHING IS GOING ON.
And YOU made up your mind by listening to Crazy Louie and bat-shit-crazy Kennedy.
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while on the subject of bat**** crazy stuff.... anyone remember all the shi.... stuff about HIV being created to kill blacks in Africa?
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while on the subject of bat**** crazy stuff.... anyone remember all the shi.... stuff about HIV being created to kill blacks in Africa?
There you go, taking what I said out of context and misplacing my words. I'd challenge you to quote me, but since SZ is gone the challenge is moot.
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There you go, taking what I said out of context and misplacing my words. I'd challenge you to quote me, but since SZ is gone the challenge is moot.
There you go again thinking I was making a not-so-subtle jab at you. (typed with a smile on my face...if you know what I mean )
I was actually thinking about the people making those claims BI (before interweb), iow, waaaaaay long ago.
Seriously, I wasn't accusing you of being that bats*** crazy.
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I just want to reiterate and dispel some of the DISINFORMATION given on this thread. This new research has nothing to Dr. Wakefield. A CDC Whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson came forward, exposing the data manipulation. Subsequently, there were 5 inquiries by Governmental agencies including the Senate who concluded that the CDC has financial conflict of interest that makes it a "cesspool of corruption".
Clearly, many of you have made up your mind on the issue, and that's fine. But you have no right to use that to spread disinformation.
Secondly, If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to a parent tell you that they watched their child change- NOT OVER A PROTRACTED PERIOD OF TIME, but RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES in the doctor's office upon receiving a shot, you might be swayed to believe that SOMETHING IS GOING ON.
It's fine to wonder whether vaccinations cause autism. But you're taking it much further. Move beyond the conspiracy theories and find a body of validated scientific work that confirms or denies your suppositions. Anecdotes don't count.
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Depends upon your definition of Force. If what you say is true, there would be no need for Pres. Clinton to sign Executive Order 13139, which specifically prohibited DoD from giving experimental vaccines to troops, giving our service members the same rights under 10 USC 1107. That definition applies also to unlicensed, off label or unapproved use of ANY vaccine. There was a court case fought from 2003-2005, called Doe V Rumsfeld in DC Circuit court, showing that DoD was IN FACT violating the EO and the Federal Regulation.
You also can't desert your post. Solution: don't join the military. No one is going door-to-door holding citizens down and vaccinating them.
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Depends upon your definition of Force. If what you say is true, there would be no need for Pres. Clinton to sign Executive Order 13139, which specifically prohibited DoD from giving experimental vaccines to troops, giving our service members the same rights under 10 USC 1107. That definition applies also to unlicensed, off label or unapproved use of ANY vaccine. There was a court case fought from 2003-2005, called Doe V Rumsfeld in DC Circuit court, showing that DoD was IN FACT violating the EO and the Federal Regulation.
you might want to read EO 13139
(https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2000-title3-vol1/html/CFR-2000-title3-vol1-eo13139.htm)
In fact, unapproved vaccines can be given to troops (under circumstances outlined in the EO)
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you might want to read EO 13139
(https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2000-title3-vol1/html/CFR-2000-title3-vol1-eo13139.htm)
In fact, unapproved vaccines can be given to troops (under circumstances outlined in the EO)
You are correct and that's what Doe v Rumsfeld was about, violating the 2 requirements in the EO.
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You also can't desert your post. Solution: don't join the military. No one is going door-to-door holding citizens down and vaccinating them.
I've heard it's in the Patriot Act, haven't looked it up myself.
You also can't desert your post. Solution: don't join the military. No one is going door-to-door holding citizens down and vaccinating them.
Too late for that one.
I have personal experience with troops who got screwed up from vaccines. My last vaccine was the Flu shot in 2002. About 30% of my company was sick afterwards. One of my company mates, returned from the MEU (along with others in the unit) with Retirement Orders for Diabetes that they didn't have when they left. These were 20 something year olds.
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Pretty sure it was a single author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/ (http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/)
If I recall correctly, the paper had 4 authors. Two withdrew their names from the paper, Wakefield has had his medical license revoked, and the other had some sanctions imposed as well.
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If I recall correctly, the paper had 4 authors. Two withdrew their names from the paper, Wakefield has had his medical license revoked, and the other had some sanctions imposed as well.
And you think that's normal? Yeah, the Medical industry wants to protect us so much that they eat their young.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50991480/File%20May%2018%2C%2015%2009%2001.jpeg)
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And you think that's normal? Yeah, the Medical industry wants to protect us so much that they eat their young.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50991480/File%20May%2018%2C%2015%2009%2001.jpeg)
So, you would prefer that doctors who falsify data and perform unethical experiments on kids for their personal profit to be congratulated?
Get your head out of your ass and look at things through a logical instead of racialist lense.
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I've heard it's in the Patriot Act, haven't looked it up myself.
Cite it?
Too late for that one.
I have personal experience with troops who got screwed up from vaccines. My last vaccine was the Flu shot in 2002. About 30% of my company was sick afterwards. One of my company mates, returned from the MEU (along with others in the unit) with Retirement Orders for Diabetes that they didn't have when they left. These were 20 something year olds.
Now vaccines cause adult diabetes?
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Now vaccines cause adult diabetes?
I'm gonna pick a nit here...he stated 20 somethings were diagnosed with diabetes. He didn't say "adult diabetes" which is referred to as type 2 whereas "juvenile diabetes" is referred to as type 1. Type 1 is controlled via insulin while type 2 is generally controlled via oral meds and diet.
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If I recall correctly, the paper had 4 authors. Two withdrew their names from the paper, Wakefield has had his medical license revoked, and the other had some sanctions imposed as well.
If so, I stand corrected.
Please post a link if you can find one.
Thanks.
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I'm gonna pick a nit here...he stated 20 somethings were diagnosed with diabetes. He didn't say "adult diabetes" which is referred to as type 2 whereas "juvenile diabetes" is referred to as type 1. Type 1 is controlled via insulin while type 2 is generally controlled via oral meds and diet.
Ok. Conceded.
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You also can't desert your post. Solution: don't join the military. No one is going door-to-door holding citizens down and vaccinating them.
No one is holding citizens down (yet) to make them pay taxes either, but the compliance rate is very high, and it's not a result of altruism on the part of the taxpayer.
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I'm gonna pick a nit here...he stated 20 somethings were diagnosed with diabetes. He didn't say "adult diabetes" which is referred to as type 2 whereas "juvenile diabetes" is referred to as type 1. Type 1 is controlled via insulin while type 2 is generally controlled via oral meds and diet.
I didn't know to ask which type. The cause was unexplained, but it makes sense to me if young men were being herded into disability retirement. What other cause? They drank the Kool-Aid and too much of it- LoL?
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No one is holding citizens down (yet) to make them pay taxes either, but the compliance rate is very high, and it's not a result of altruism on the part of the taxpayer.
Excellent analogy
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No one is holding citizens down (yet) to make them pay taxes either, but the compliance rate is very high, and it's not a result of altruism on the part of the taxpayer.
I've lost track of your point. Coercion with respect to vaccines is a good thing. But my point stands. Citizens are not being forcibly vaccinated.
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I've lost track of your point. Coercion with respect to vaccines is a good thing. But my point stands. Citizens are not being forcibly vaccinated.
Coercion is not a good thing.
If you want to make the case that vaccinations are a good thing, then you should be able to convince people to do it without the threat of force or violence.
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Coercion is not a good thing.
If you want to make the case that vaccinations are a good thing, then you should be able to convince people to do it without the threat of force or violence.
Perhaps coercion is too harsh a word after review of the dictionary definition. Let me rephrase: I am completely comfortable with structuring things in society to make it difficult for those who refuse to get vaccinated. I agree that it should stop well short of "threat of force or violence".
PS - There is every reason people should be convinced of the virtues of getting vaccinated. And yet, we have a segment society that is loony toons about them. There is no compelling argument that would convince these folks, so we push them to get vaccinated in other ways.
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Perhaps coercion is too harsh a word after review of the dictionary definition. Let me rephrase: I am completely comfortable with structuring things in society to make it difficult for those who refuse to get vaccinated. I agree that it should stop well short of "threat of force or violence".
PS - There is every reason people should be convinced of the virtues of getting vaccinated. And yet, we have a segment society that is loony toons about them. There is no compelling argument that would convince these folks, so we push them to get vaccinated in other ways.
Again, your liberalism is betraying you.
Encourage people, don't force/push people.
and, just in case you are confused about my own view of vaccinations. I have been vaccinated. While I understand the real risks, I also understand the benefits. I don't believe the loony toon morons that think vaccinations are a plot to <fill in the blank>
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Again, your liberalism is betraying you.
Encourage people, don't force/push people.
and, just in case you are confused about my own view of vaccinations. I have been vaccinated. While I understand the real risks, I also understand the benefits. I don't believe the loony toon morons that think vaccinations are a plot to <fill in the blank>
Negative. Some things should be pushed. Vaccinations are one of those things. My opinion, of course, but I'm perfectly happy with, for example, vaccinations being required for a child to attend public school. That's an example of a societal push that I consider appropriate.
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Negative. Some things should be pushed. Vaccinations are one of those things. My opinion, of course, but I'm perfectly happy with, for example, vaccinations being required for a child to attend public school. That's an example of a societal push that I consider appropriate.
do you not have a preference for encouraging people rather than resorting to force?
I liken it to the difference between people who believe that a good compromise is one where both parties are unhappy and those people who believe that a good compromise is one where both parties are happy.
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The first 2min 25 seconds, Bill Gates explains that vaccines are a viable way to reduce the Worlds population by 10-15%
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Negative. Some things should be pushed. Vaccinations are one of those things. My opinion, of course, but I'm perfectly happy with, for example, vaccinations being required for a child to attend public school. That's an example of a societal push that I consider appropriate.
Since it's evident that people advocate for (theoretically) what's in their own best interests, what's in it for you?
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http://time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/
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There is so much editing and out-of-context in the Gates thing that I do not believe he is making the points you are claiming he makes.
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There is so much editing and out-of-context in the Gates thing that I do not believe he is making the points you are claiming he makes.
Not looking for it, it happened to pop on my social media feed so I went to YouTube to check and sure enough I found it. That's the speech. What else could he mean by reducing the population?
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Excellent analogy
Not really. Coercion with respect to taxes is compelled via civil and criminal penalties up to and including prison.
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Negative. Some things should be pushed. Vaccinations are one of those things. My opinion, of course, but I'm perfectly happy with, for example, vaccinations being required for a child to attend public school. That's an example of a societal push that I consider appropriate.
Agreed.
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The first 2min 25 seconds, Bill Gates explains that vaccines are a viable way to reduce the Worlds population by 10-15%
Is Bill Gates an expert in this field? Huh. I thought he was a computer guy.
And how much would the world population be reduced if all vaccines were banned?
Polio is awesome.
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Polio is awesome.
Did you see the 60-minutes piece last Sunday? Polio is being used to kill brain cancers.
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Did you see the 60-minutes piece last Sunday? Polio is being used to kill brain cancers.
I think you missed my point.
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do you not have a preference for encouraging people rather than resorting to force?
It depends on the scenario. Regarding vaccinations, I think they are important enough that we need more than a "pretty please", which is why I am comfortable with the mandates currently in place. And note, my original point is that we aren't forcefully vaccinating people, so I don't know why you think I want to resort to "force".
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Since it's evident that people advocate for (theoretically) what's in their own best interests, what's in it for you?
Is this a trick question? :o
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Coercion is not a good thing.
If you want to make the case that vaccinations are a good thing, then you should be able to convince people to do it without the threat of force or violence.
You assume people make logical choices. If that were the case, how would you explain Hillary and Trump being the two presidential candidates?
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You assume people make logical choices. If that were the case, how would you explain Hillary and Trump being the two presidential candidates?
actually, I'm not making that assumption at all. (especially because of examples like the donald and the doormat)
My point is that coercion is not the great thing that liberals think it is.
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actually, I'm not making that assumption at all. (especially because of examples like the donald and the doormat)
My point is that coercion is not the great thing that liberals think it is.
Actually, it can be a god thing. For example, we coerce would-be criminals with fear of imprisonment or death. As Stan mentioned, we coerce taxpayers with threat of fine or imprisonment. Similarly, we push citizens toward vaccinations by structuring things so that it's more difficult to function without being vaccinated. I think that type of push should be reserved for important societal issues like vaccinations. You need only look at the anti-vaxxer crowd to understand that cold, hard data and a "pretty please" ain't gonna do it.
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Actually, it can be a god thing. ....
Turn in your liberal card....
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Actually, it can be a god thing. For example, we coerce would-be criminals with fear of imprisonment or death. As Stan mentioned, we coerce taxpayers with threat of fine or imprisonment. Similarly, we push citizens toward vaccinations by structuring things so that it's more difficult to function without being vaccinated. I think that type of push should be reserved for important societal issues like vaccinations. You need only look at the anti-vaxxer crowd to understand that cold, hard data and a "pretty please" ain't gonna do it.
Again, what's in it for you? Why do you care if Joe Bob Up the Street gets his shot or not?
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Is Bill Gates an expert in this field? Huh. I thought he was a computer guy.
A computer guy with a lot of FRICKEN MONEY! You think he dreams of new software all day? People with money want to DO SOMETHING WITH IT. Why does he believe in it? Why does he have a foundation? C'mon lift the covers and go beyond the surface.
All people with REAL money, get involved in some other (societal) issue with their money. Some do evil stuff with it, some seek to do good. I think Eugenics and depopulation are EVIL things. What about you?
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A computer guy with a lot of FRICKEN MONEY! You think he dreams of new software all day? People with money want to DO SOMETHING WITH IT. Why does he believe in it? Why does he have a foundation? C'mon lift the covers and go beyond the surface.
All people with REAL money, get involved in some other (societal) issue with their money. Some do evil stuff with it, some seek to do good. I think Eugenics and depopulation are EVIL things. What about you?
Why didn't you answer my second question?
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This whole anti-vaccine stuff is such BS. One idiot with a flawed study and we are off on the idiotic conspiracy theories. It only has any currency as there are too few old folks that go back to when every child lost a classmate to some preventable disease or had them disabled by polio. My grandmother was disabled by polio. My mother had measles, scarlet fever, whooping cough, you name it. Her kids had none of those because we were vaccinated. I don't know any of my classmate who had any of these. They were all vaccinated. Out of all my school mates, of which there were 2000 in my high school, I know of only one kid who was autistic. He is my brother and showed signs of that before he was given most of the vaccines. Whatever causes autism, it is almost certainly not viral. Autism both adds and takes away. Diseases pretty much just seem to diminish their victims, hopefully only temporarily.
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The first 2min 25 seconds, Bill Gates explains that vaccines are a viable way to reduce the Worlds population by 10-15%
Even heavily edited, which destroys the context at any rate, he does not say what you claim he says.
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This whole anti-vaccine stuff is such BS. One idiot with a flawed fraudulent study and we are off on the idiotic conspiracy theories.
Fixed that for you.
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Again, what's in it for you? Why do you care if Joe Bob Up the Street gets his shot or not?
Well, if I have an immunocompromised daughter in public school, and Joe Bob Up The Street is in her class, I care a whole bunch.
Fact is, someone's freedom is going to end up being compromised. Maybe it's me, unable to send my daughter to public school for fear of infection. Maybe it's Joe Bob Up The Street's, unable to go to public school unvaccinated. Society chooses who's rights take precedence.
I know those who resist vaccination for the flu, let's say. I understand their calculus, though I think it might change if they realized how bad the flu can be. But I don't think some consider they, unvaccinated, may get a very mild case of the flu - but visit an elderly relative who may contract it from them and actually die, with them as the disease vector. Or maybe they do consider it and just don't care.
Thankfully, with childhood diseases, enough people cared that polio, whooping cough, smallpox and other scourges of the young have either been eliminated or much reduced as threats. Towards that end, a bit of coercion seems warranted.
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I don't think people understand the definition of the word "coercion"
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Again, what's in it for you? Why do you care if Joe Bob Up the Street gets his shot or not?
I actually don't care much about Joe Bob getting his shots. What I care about is Joe Bob reading a fraudulent vaccine study, then telling his brother Jim Bob. Jim Bob tells his wife Mary Bob, who relays it to the in-laws. Those in-laws make a post on their influential blog, disseminating bogus info to the masses, which apparently folks like you eat up. And now look where we are, a movement of anti-vaxxers convinced that it is a government conspiracy perpetrating a great injustice on citizens. This is despite the clear evidence that vaccines have saved millions upon millions from sickness and death.
So I am pleased that we have in-built societal structure that pushes folks toward getting vaccinated.
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snip. . .
This is despite the clear evidence that vaccines have saved millions upon millions from sickness and death.
Overpopulation is a huge problem. It causes wars, mmgw, and starvation among many other problems causing a poor quality of life. I hear that some people stand in line for hours to see an attraction at Disney World! That is just horrible. We have too many people.
So we get rid of vaccinations and let the population diminish, as it grows stronger by letting the weak links perish.
(all this is only partly tongue-in-cheek).
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Sometimes the idiots need us to think for them. This would include anti-vaxxers. But anyway, as far as I am aware, no one is forcibly vaccinated.
Many, if not most public school require vaccinations even over the objection of parents, or children are not permitted to attend. The idea that the state is always fist before parental rights has led us to a society with black on black violence that is out of control, a segment of the population that can't understand which rest room they should use, and grown women who think the taxpayers must provide them with free birth control and abortions.
These things are not taught at home. They're indoctrinated in the public school system, and entrenched at universities.
Parents who push back are attacked by blind, ideologues who choose to place their blind faith in the state no matter what and hate anyone who refuses to bow down like they do.
Parents have rights and the state has become the destroyer of those rights. The result is sickening but gets worse because progressives WANT to be herded and parented, but they hate it when they see independent thinking going on without them.
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It is not the same, and they deserve to be coerced.
Spoken like a true progressive. The state is always in first place above parent's rights, no matter how often the state is proved wrong later.
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Many, if not most public school require vaccinations even over the objection of parents, or children are not permitted to attend.
This is not really accurate, but even if it was, that is not forcible vaccination.
Spoken like a true progressive. The state is always in first place above parent's rights, no matter how often the state is proved wrong later.
Spoken like someone who types before thinking. I've said from the start that citizens aren't forcibly vaccinated and that this is the way it should be. That gives the parents the ultimate right to fail to vaccinate their children. It'll just be more difficult to function in society without the vaccinations. This is also as it should be.
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Why didn't you answer my second question?
This one:
And how much would the world population be reduced if all vaccines were banned?
1- Because I don't know the answer
2- Because I'm not an advocate of banning all vaccines. I am an advocate of cleaning up the pharmaceutical industry and holding them accountable for gross negligence and gross incompetence in the interest of profit and greed.
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This one:
1- Because I don't know the answer
2- Because I'm not an advocate of banning all vaccines. I am an advocate of cleaning up the pharmaceutical industry and holding them accountable for gross negligence and gross incompetence in the interest of profit and greed.
gross negligence and gross incompetence is ok if it's not in the interest of profit and greed?
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Well, if I have an immunocompromised daughter in public school, and Joe Bob Up The Street is in her class, I care a whole bunch.
Fact is, someone's freedom is going to end up being compromised. Maybe it's me, unable to send my daughter to public school for fear of infection. Maybe it's Joe Bob Up The Street's, unable to go to public school unvaccinated. Society chooses who's rights take precedence.
I know those who resist vaccination for the flu, let's say. I understand their calculus, though I think it might change if they realized how bad the flu can be. But I don't think some consider they, unvaccinated, may get a very mild case of the flu - but visit an elderly relative who may contract it from them and actually die, with them as the disease vector. Or maybe they do consider it and just don't care.
Thankfully, with childhood diseases, enough people cared that polio, whooping cough, smallpox and other scourges of the young have either been eliminated or much reduced as threats. Towards that end, a bit of coercion seems warranted.
This is what herd immunity will take care of for you. It doesn't require every single person to get the vaccine but does require that enough do so.
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gross negligence and gross incompetence is ok if it's not in the interest of profit and greed?
Does another motive exist?
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An exercise you might try. I am going to have my students calculate the odds of a adverse vaccine event. There were roughly 8000 since 1990, with about 400 deaths. I will then have them compare that number to the odds of dying from measles, which is roughly 3 in 1000.
Vaccines do not cause autism. The reason I know this is simple. If they did, it would have been found by now. People have looked. And if they found it, they would get to publish in the top journals, something scientists love to do. Wakefield published his originally flawed findings in the Lancet (he was well paid to do so, by the way).
There was a time when vaccines had a preservative called thimerosol, and it did have a bit of mercury. Thimerosol is still used in some vaccines, but none of those used on young children. The amount of mercury in it is vanishingly small, and insufficient to harm anyone.
And it is true that you can't sue vaccine makers. When the suits started the pharma companies pulled out of vaccine production. There really isn't that much money in it compared to the liability. The government very wisely stepped in and formed an agency you can do to if you suffer an adverse event. Every vaccine purchased by anyone pays into the fund, and you get reimbursed if something goes wrong. We should do it for all medical transactions, it is far more rational policy than malpractice.
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This is what herd immunity will take care of for you. It doesn't require every single person to get the vaccine but does require that enough do so.
Agreed. But the percentage of the population needing to comply is relatively high to ensure herd immunity.
We have already seen outbreaks of childhood diseases from lack of compliance. Quite needless suffering, since the avoidance of said diseases is so straightforward.
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why the hell would a government want to create a race of dependents with reduced mental capacity?
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An exercise you might try. I am going to have my students calculate the odds of a adverse vaccine event. There were roughly 8000 since 1990, with about 400 deaths. I will then have them compare that number to the odds of dying from measles, which is roughly 3 in 1000.
Vaccines do not cause autism. The reason I know this is simple. If they did, it would have been found by now. People have looked. And if they found it, they would get to publish in the top journals, something scientists love to do. Wakefield published his originally flawed findings in the Lancet (he was well paid to do so, by the way).
There was a time when vaccines had a preservative called thimerosol, and it did have a bit of mercury. Thimerosol is still used in some vaccines, but none of those used on young children. The amount of mercury in it is vanishingly small, and insufficient to harm anyone.
And it is true that you can't sue vaccine makers. When the suits started the pharma companies pulled out of vaccine production. There really isn't that much money in it compared to the liability. The government very wisely stepped in and formed an agency you can do to if you suffer an adverse event. Every vaccine purchased by anyone pays into the fund, and you get reimbursed if something goes wrong. We should do it for all medical transactions, it is far more rational policy than malpractice.
But, but, Crazy Louie and Kennedy said it does. They can't both be wrong!
Good post. Nice to see you around these parts again professor.
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why the hell would a government want to create a race of dependents with reduced mental capacity?
More democrat voters?
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Does another motive exist?
Yes. More than one. Apathy is one. Ignorance is another root cause.
If you think greed and profit is the only motive, I would suggest you try to prove it. I'm guessing that perhaps you don't understand the words "negligence" and "incompetence"
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This is not really accurate, but even if it was, that is not forcible vaccination.
Spoken like someone who types before thinking. I've said from the start that citizens aren't forcibly vaccinated and that this is the way it should be. That gives the parents the ultimate right to fail to vaccinate their children. It'll just be more difficult to function in society without the vaccinations. This is also as it should be.
That whole equal protection thing just doesn't do it for progressives, does it?
For you sheep the government is the source of all rights, all help. and all knowledge.
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For you sheep the government is the source of all rights, all help. and all knowledge.
Credit where credit is due, eliminating the scourge of polio has to be seen as a good thing.
Isn't it?
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Credit where credit is due, eliminating the scourge of polio has to be seen as a good thing.
Isn't it?
Might be, IF polio was actually eliminated. It is back, maybe in a more virulent, resistant form. Survival of the fittest includes viruses and bacteria. That's basically how we got MRSA, we tried killing off everything we could until we had eliminated all the weaker organisms in favor of the one that we cannot cure. MRSA used to get choked off by the other "not so bad" stuff, but now it's free to rampage on it's own.
I heard about a similar case from the nun (and microbiologist) who makes cheese in a wooden tub. Of course, the FDA put the brakes on that. EVERYONE knows that stainless steel is the choice for food production. Except that once they forced her to use stainless, she started getting breakout of e-coli in her cheese and it was making people sick. How could that be, cheese made in dirty wooden tub is OK, but cheese made in "sanitary" container is a problem? Turns out the wooden tub was "infested" with several variants of good bacteria which had the aggregate effect of killing e-coli.
Has the same happened with polio? I don't know but it survived somewhere and is rearing it's head again.
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Might be, IF polio was actually eliminated. It is back, maybe in a more virulent, resistant form. Survival of the fittest includes viruses and bacteria. That's basically how we got MRSA, we tried killing off everything we could until we had eliminated all the weaker organisms in favor of the one that we cannot cure. MRSA used to get choked off by the other "not so bad" stuff, but now it's free to rampage on it's own.
I heard about a similar case from the nun (and microbiologist) who makes cheese in a wooden tub. Of course, the FDA put the brakes on that. EVERYONE knows that stainless steel is the choice for food production. Except that once they forced her to use stainless, she started getting breakout of e-coli in her cheese and it was making people sick. How could that be, cheese made in dirty wooden tub is OK, but cheese made in "sanitary" container is a problem? Turns out the wooden tub was "infested" with several variants of good bacteria which had the aggregate effect of killing e-coli.
Has the same happened with polio? I don't know but it survived somewhere and is rearing it's head again.
I would not doubt (though I haven't researched it) that the rise in polio corresponds to the rise in immigration from central/South America, among other places.
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An exercise you might try. I am going to have my students calculate the odds of a adverse vaccine event. There were roughly 8000 since 1990, with about 400 deaths. I will then have them compare that number to the odds of dying from measles, which is roughly 3 in 1000.
Vaccines do not cause autism. The reason I know this is simple. If they did, it would have been found by now. People have looked. And if they found it, they would get to publish in the top journals, something scientists love to do. Wakefield published his originally flawed findings in the Lancet (he was well paid to do so, by the way).
There was a time when vaccines had a preservative called thimerosol, and it did have a bit of mercury. Thimerosol is still used in some vaccines, but none of those used on young children. The amount of mercury in it is vanishingly small, and insufficient to harm anyone.
And it is true that you can't sue vaccine makers. When the suits started the pharma companies pulled out of vaccine production. There really isn't that much money in it compared to the liability. The government very wisely stepped in and formed an agency you can do to if you suffer an adverse event. Every vaccine purchased by anyone pays into the fund, and you get reimbursed if something goes wrong. We should do it for all medical transactions, it is far more rational policy than malpractice.
You are again introducing an argument that no one is making to appear to refute the OP. This is not about Wakefield nor about the vaccine safety per se (that's another argument about poor QC, which exists today becaus the government has disincentivized good QC).
Adjuvants used today are harmful. There is no threshold for safe mercury levels, just like safe (approved) levels of cyanide. Outside the pharmaceutical industry, it's not allowed; period.
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Yes. More than one. Apathy is one. Ignorance is another root cause.
If you think greed and profit is the only motive, I would suggest you try to prove it. I'm guessing that perhaps you don't understand the words "negligence" and "incompetence"
I was being generous with use of those words. Willful is a higher standard and subject to much subjectivity.
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There is no threshold for safe mercury levels, just like safe (approved) levels of cyanide. Outside the pharmaceutical industry, it's not allowed; period.
If you care to, check out this link and it's discussion of mercury in vaccines - it's not what you think.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/scary-flu-vaccine-ingredients/ (http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/scary-flu-vaccine-ingredients/)
If you'd rather not click, the relevant part:
Flu vaccine ingredients – thiomersal
So let’s move on to the other highlighted flu vaccine ingredients, and that’s the old canard, dangerous thiomersal (or thimerosal in the USA–my education is 100% US based, but for some reason I’ve used the non-USA spelling for 30 years). Let’s make some points clear right now. This is NOT mercury in its elemental form, which you might remember from old-style medical thermometers. So there isn’t a pool of mercury in the vaccine vial. Moreover, thiomersal is ONLY used, at least in vaccines, in multi-use vials, these days, only the flu vaccine.
Thiomersal is a toxic compound, there is no denying that. But let’s get back to math. The toxicity of compounds is measured through an analysis called the dose-response relationship, which describes the change in effect on an organism caused by differing doses of a compound after a certain exposure time. Table salt is tasty and safe in small amounts, but could kill you if taken in huge amounts. The dose-response relationship provides a graph that mathematically establishes what amounts of a compound causes what effects. This would seem to be a logical, and easily understood concept, but for many individuals, a bad substance is always bad.
First of all, the half-life of thiomersal in blood is around 2.2 days. That might seem long, but it means half is gone in a couple of days, cleared out by the kidneys. It does not accumulate.
But the math is even more telling. This flu vaccine, given once a year, has a maximum dose of 25 micrograms of mercury (but not elemental mercury). According to an NIH database, the LD50, that is, the approximate dose at which 50% of organisms will die (in this case a mouse), is 98 mg/kg body weight, if delivered subcutaneously, generally how vaccines are delivered.
A 20 kg child would get 25 micrograms of non-elemental mercury (this is important, thimerosal does not equal mercury) in one injection once a year. The theoretical LD50 dose for that same child would be around 2000 mg of thiomersal, or about 80,000 times higher than the amount of thiomersal in one vaccine dose–if vaccines used in children actually had thiomersal, which it doesn’t.
So, you would have to inject your child 80,000 times a day, every day, to make it potentially toxic. And no, dose-response relationships are not linear. That doesn’t mean that there’s some tiny risk of death from even a small dose of thiomersal–there is actually NO risk. And again, since there’s no thiomersal in pediatric vaccines this argument is ridiculous.
But more than all that, we have solid scientific data that show us that thiomersal is totally unrelated to autism, and is completely safe in vaccines. This illogical removal of thiomersal from vaccines makes it nearly impossible to have multi-use vials, so every vaccine has to be in a single-use prefilled syringe, which has rapidly driven up the costs of vaccines. Wait. That’s more evidence that antivaccination lunatics are in the pockets of Big Pharma. They pushed to get rid of thiomersal to make more profits for Big Pharma. That was an awesome move on their part.
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Adjuvants used today are harmful. There is no threshold for safe mercury levels, just like safe (approved) levels of cyanide. Outside the pharmaceutical industry, it's not allowed; period.
Cyanide is in common foods, like spinach, almonds and lima beans. So there certainly is a threshold.
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You are again introducing an argument that no one is making to appear to refute the OP. This is not about Wakefield nor about the vaccine safety per se (that's another argument about poor QC, which exists today becaus the government has disincentivized good QC).
Adjuvants used today are harmful. There is no threshold for safe mercury levels, just like safe (approved) levels of cyanide. Outside the pharmaceutical industry, it's not allowed; period.
Poor QC. Negligence. Incompetence.
I reject your premises entirely. If you think pharma isn't hyper regulated, then I don't think you understand the process.
Of course, there's always got to be a "bad guy," right?
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I will read your link FEB. thank you. Can't right now, getting ready for work, but your summary seems well written and plausible.
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Poor QC. Negligence. Incompetence.
I reject your premises entirely. If you think pharma isn't hyper regulated, then I don't think you understand the process.
Of course, there's always got to be a "bad guy," right?
I am personally aware of at least one (the only one I followed) instance of FDA-Pharma collusion.
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I am personally aware of at least one (the only one I followed) instance of FDA-Pharma collusion.
And of course, if there was one, then all must be evil.
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Might be, IF polio was actually eliminated. It is back, maybe in a more virulent, resistant form. Survival of the fittest includes viruses and bacteria.
While viruses can escape vaccination-induced surveillance, it isn't necessarily a case of them becoming more infective or virulent. Polio outbreaks are mostly due to a lack of immunization. The biggest one right now is in Pakistan. It is widely believed that the CIA tracked down Osama bin Laden using a doctor, and many Pakistanis have turned against the medical establishment.
That's basically how we got MRSA, we tried killing off everything we could until we had eliminated all the weaker organisms in favor of the one that we cannot cure. MRSA used to get choked off by the other "not so bad" stuff, but now it's free to rampage on it's own.
Staphylococcus aureus has always been a problem in medical settings, but it is true that overuse of antibiotics has resulted in highly drug resistant strains. There are drug resistant strains of almost every pathogenic microorganism. The problem is when you use an antibacterial agent you don't kill all the bacteria, but most. The remained, however small, are resistant, and are the bacteria than go on to colonize the now vacant microbial niches. I cringe at all the bactericidal agents people use now.
I heard about a similar case from the nun (and microbiologist) who makes cheese in a wooden tub. Of course, the FDA put the brakes on that. EVERYONE knows that stainless steel is the choice for food production. Except that once they forced her to use stainless, she started getting breakout of e-coli in her cheese and it was making people sick. How could that be, cheese made in dirty wooden tub is OK, but cheese made in "sanitary" container is a problem? Turns out the wooden tub was "infested" with several variants of good bacteria which had the aggregate effect of killing e-coli.
Has the same happened with polio? I don't know but it survived somewhere and is rearing it's head again.
Never heard of a microbiologist becoming a nun, but stranger things have happened. Had they properly sanitized the stainless they wouldn't have had any E. coli outbreaks. Lots of folks make cheese without any contamination. As far as polio, if we could immunize everyone the disease would cease to exist, like smallpox.
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While viruses can escape vaccination-induced surveillance, it isn't necessarily a case of them becoming more infective or virulent. Polio outbreaks are mostly due to a lack of immunization. The biggest one right now is in Pakistan. It is widely believed that the CIA tracked down Osama bin Laden using a doctor, and many Pakistanis have turned against the medical establishment.
Staphylococcus aureus has always been a problem in medical settings, but it is true that overuse of antibiotics has resulted in highly drug resistant strains. There are drug resistant strains of almost every pathogenic microorganism. The problem is when you use an antibacterial agent you don't kill all the bacteria, but most. The remained, however small, are resistant, and are the bacteria than go on to colonize the now vacant microbial niches. I cringe at all the bactericidal agents people use now.
Never heard of a microbiologist becoming a nun, but stranger things have happened. Had they properly sanitized the stainless they wouldn't have had any E. coli outbreaks. Lots of folks make cheese without any contamination. As far as polio, if we could immunize everyone the disease would cease to exist, like smallpox.
Someone at my daughter's veterinary school was going to become a nun when she graduated. I think she graduates next year.
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Someone at my daughter's veterinary school was going to become a nun when she graduated. I think she graduates next year.
Horrible waste to lose a highly trained person like that, unless she can put her hard-won skills to work for the nunnery or wherever she winds up.
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Never heard of a microbiologist becoming a nun, but stranger things have happened. Had they properly sanitized the stainless they wouldn't have had any E. coli outbreaks. Lots of folks make cheese without any contamination. As far as polio, if we could immunize everyone the disease would cease to exist, like smallpox.
While I was ramping down my active duty days in 2003 the DoD was ramping up a Smallpox vaccination program. Why would they do that if it had been eliminated?
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Here's a clip 3 days old regarding a White House meeting about Zika Virus. With all the mistrust, how is anyone to effectively advocate for Government intervention in disease prevention?
https://www.facebook.com/WhiteHouse/videos/10154379929279238/
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While I was ramping down my active duty days in 2003 the DoD was ramping up a Smallpox vaccination program. Why would they do that if it had been eliminated?
2003 is a long time ago. I haven't heard of an outbreak in years, and have read its gone.
Zika will be here next year if it isn't already. Walls don't stop mosquitos. La migra can't interdict a virus.
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While I was ramping down my active duty days in 2003 the DoD was ramping up a Smallpox vaccination program. Why would they do that if it had been eliminated?
Protection against bioterrorism, I think.
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Protection against bioterrorism, I think.
That was my thought as well.
I'm pretty sure samples of the smallpox virus are kept in labs for research, and those could conceivably fall into the wrong hands.
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Never heard of a microbiologist becoming a nun, but stranger things have happened. Had they properly sanitized the stainless they wouldn't have had any E. coli outbreaks. Lots of folks make cheese without any contamination. As far as polio, if we could immunize everyone the disease would cease to exist, like smallpox.
The E. coli came from the milk.
The nun became the microbiologist - Noella Marcellino.
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While I was ramping down my active duty days in 2003 the DoD was ramping up a Smallpox vaccination program. Why would they do that if it had been eliminated?
Smallpox was declared to have been eradicated in 1980, but then, who said that the military doesn't make mistakes.
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Smallpox was declared to have been eradicated in 1980, but then, who said that the military doesn't make mistakes.
A quick timeline for context:
Bioport, the Michigan based manufacturer of Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed is preparing to file bankruptcy.
The Anthrax letters are mailed a couple weeks post 9/11
DoD ramps up AVA (Anthrax) vaccinations citing concerns over weaponized Anthrax being used against troops in Iraq and other ME countries
Bioport is fulfilling orders
Patriot Act includes provisions for a National Stockpile of the AVA for citizenry
Smallpox Vaccine program is being given (and argued) in DoD
2003 6 complaintants Sue SecDef Rumsfeld citing law that troops are not to be given experimental drugs (absent 2 exceptions)
Judge Sullivan in Doe V Rumsfeld agree that servicemembers are not "lab rats" and orders an injuction
FDA approves a 30-yo application for AVA 6 days after Judges ruling, injunction lifted
Complaintants argue FDA collusion, prevail and Judge reverses himself nearly holding the Government in contempt of court
2005 FDA satisfies all regulatory requirements for AVA and case is mooted
Somewhere in there, the alleged perpetrator of the Anthrax letters commits suicide. Many people say there are too many loose ends and accuse FBI of incompetence. Officially the case is still open, but supposedly the FBI is no longer working the case.
Smallpox Vaccination program quietly goes away (or so I've heard- my ability to follow that was curtailed upon my discharge, no more inside knowledge - it was just a hobby).
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Interesting, but where is the race angle? 8)
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Interesting, but where is the race angle? 8)
Inside Knowledge: the financier of Doe V Rumsfeld and I had a conversation. I asked his motive and he basically said that "they screw with us, so I like to screw with them." This was one of his social projects, I don't know much more about him and we never met in person, but I assumed he was Caucasian. He tried to lure me into this melee by telling that Anthrax adverse reaction rates were statistically proportionally higher with Melanin content.
FWIW, I spoke with him sometime after Doe v Rumsfeld was mooted and the Government was ordered to pay all attorney costs, and he basically told me that he has moved on to something else. He was satisfied with the outcome I presume, whereas I didn't think they went far enough. There were about 100-150 men and women in uniform over the years who were unfairly punished for refusing to participate in what was proved to be an illegal program. They had the platform to force the Government to make it right for those brave warriors who stood up to their Government and said "No".
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A quick timeline for context:
Bioport, the Michigan based manufacturer of Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed is preparing to file bankruptcy.
The Anthrax letters are mailed a couple weeks post 9/11
DoD ramps up AVA (Anthrax) vaccinations citing concerns over weaponized Anthrax being used against troops in Iraq and other ME countries
Bioport is fulfilling orders
Patriot Act includes provisions for a National Stockpile of the AVA for citizenry
Smallpox Vaccine program is being given (and argued) in DoD
2003 6 complaintants Sue SecDef Rumsfeld citing law that troops are not to be given experimental drugs (absent 2 exceptions)
Judge Sullivan in Doe V Rumsfeld agree that servicemembers are not "lab rats" and orders an injuction
FDA approves a 30-yo application for AVA 6 days after Judges ruling, injunction lifted
Complaintants argue FDA collusion, prevail and Judge reverses himself nearly holding the Government in contempt of court
2005 FDA satisfies all regulatory requirements for AVA and case is mooted
Somewhere in there, the alleged perpetrator of the Anthrax letters commits suicide. Many people say there are too many loose ends and accuse FBI of incompetence. Officially the case is still open, but supposedly the FBI is no longer working the case.
Smallpox Vaccination program quietly goes away (or so I've heard- my ability to follow that was curtailed upon my discharge, no more inside knowledge - it was just a hobby).
So where is Pharma the bad guy in this timeline?
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If you're interested I recommend looking into the FBI Anthrax investigation. Originally they accused and tried in the media another man [EDIT: His name is Stephen Hatfill], who's life was destroyed. He was barred from suing for defamation, citing National Security interests. It was AFTER he was allowed to sue and he won (several million $) the FBI attention turned to the guy who allegedly killed himself. I can't remember names right now and I'm getting ready for work, so no Google from me.
FBI said, 'yeah, that's him. The dead guy.' FBI leadership signs off on it and it's done. No (weaponized) Anthrax was found in Iraq. No capabilities to produce it were found. If fact the only known actors who could produce it are: USA, Israel and (maybe) China and Russia. At the time I was into this it wasn't even credible that anyone else had the stuff. The AVA program and the Smallpox programs was a financial charade.
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So where is Pharma the bad guy in this timeline?
They're called Bioport.
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...but I assumed he was Caucasian. He tried to lure me into this melee by telling that Anthrax adverse reaction rates were statistically proportionally higher with Melanin content.
I knew it!
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While I was ramping down my active duty days in 2003 the DoD was ramping up a Smallpox vaccination program. Why would they do that if it had been eliminated?
Is it eliminated in certain shitholes of the world? You know, where the military might be deployed?
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Is it eliminated in certain shitholes of the world? You know, where the military might be deployed?
The cost to weaponize biological agents is very high. Unless it's monkeys throwing feces, not likely anything to happen in said shitholes.
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The problem is when you use an antibacterial agent you don't kill all the bacteria, but most. The remained, however small, are resistant, and are the bacteria than go on to colonize the now vacant microbial niches. I cringe at all the bactericidal agents people use now.
Drives the wife nuts, but whenever I see a commercial on TV about some antibacterial cleaner that says "Kills 98% of bacteria!", I add "Leaving the remaining strongest 2% without competition to reproduce"
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The cost to weaponize biological agents is very high. Unless it's monkeys throwing feces, not likely anything to happen in said shitholes.
Exactly, because there are never any incidence of importing weapons to ****holes around the world and no one would ever cut corners in creating biological weapons.
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I knew it!
Yes, you found the smoking gun that is my literary license. He didn't sound like a quack if that's what you mean.
Maybe later I'll tell the story of the Chaplain being "forced" to choose his religious beliefs or his Navy career. It's what started me on the track to learn about vaccines and the military controversy.
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Exactly, because there are never any incidence of importing weapons to ****holes around the world and no one would ever cut corners in creating biological weapons.
For most cut corner bio weapons- they don't work well.
The Anthrax letters samples were traced back to US Army Labs Ft Detrick, Maryland. That was the only real evidence tying Dr Bruce Ivins to the crime. It was high grade stuff made at extreme costs.
The postal workers that handled the mail and were infected were treated post exposure with Penicillin; I don't even think it was a souped up version, though I could be mistaken.
The point is: the DoD wanted to use Bioports vaccine as a prophylactic for weaponized Anthrax, a use for which there was no science to support and here stateside Americans were successfully treated with essentially an OTC medication, with IIRC only 1 death. As I understand that patient already had compromised medical history.
Bioports history is sketchy at best, and a major factor in their impending insolvency was a full rap sheet of huge fines levied against them for QC violations at their manufacturing plant.
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Exactly, because there are never any incidence of importing weapons to ****holes around the world and no one would ever cut corners in creating biological weapons.
Right, it's not like it needs to meet MIL-STDs and be "safe" to handle for the troops.
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For most cut corner bio weapons- they don't work well.
The Anthrax letters samples were traced back to US Army Labs Ft Detrick, Maryland. That was the only real evidence tying Dr Bruce Ivins to the crime. It was high grade stuff made at extreme costs.
The postal workers that handled the mail and were infected were treated post exposure with Penicillin; I don't even think it was a souped up version, though I could be mistaken.
The point is: the DoD wanted to use Bioports vaccine as a prophylactic for weaponized Anthrax, a use for which there was no science to support and here stateside Americans were successfully treated with essentially an OTC medication, with IIRC only 1 death. As I understand that patient already had compromised medical history.
Bioports history is sketchy at best, and the cause of their impending insolvency was a full rap sheet of huge fines levied against them for QC violations at their manufacturing plant.
Well then , I guess it was all just a plot to kill off all the blacks in the military.
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Well then , I guess it was all just a plot to kill off all the blacks in the military.
If you want to go there you can, but I doubt it. I think it boiled down to financial incentive at any costs. You have a population of people who are not allowed to say "no" or they are predisposed to not asking questions in the first place. What better sample pool to:
1- Sell your product
2- Gather results data
Hence the NEED for the Executive Order cited above.
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For most cut corner bio weapons- they don't work well.
they don't have to.
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Drives the wife nuts, but whenever I see a commercial on TV about some antibacterial cleaner that says "Kills 98% of bacteria!", I add "Leaving the remaining strongest 2% without competition to reproduce"
Yeah, that. Never could figure out why anyone needed a vaccine for Anthrax, since you can wipe it out with broad spectrum antibiotic.
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They're called Bioport.
Why? Because they were capable of filling an urgent need after 9/11, and they therefore didn't go tits up?
Other than your distaste for success, what did they do wrong? Are you accusing them of being complicit in mailing anthrax to Congress or something?
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FBI said, 'yeah, that's him. The dead guy.' FBI leadership signs off on it and it's done. No (weaponized) Anthrax was found in Iraq. No capabilities to produce it were found. If fact the only known actors who could produce it are: USA, Israel and (maybe) China and Russia. At the time I was into this it wasn't even credible that anyone else had the stuff. The AVA program and the Smallpox programs was a financial charade.
Hot damn! If you knew all that information, why didn't you tell someone?
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Why? Because they were capable of filling an urgent need after 9/11, and they therefore didn't go tits up?
Other than your distaste for success, what did they do wrong? Are you accusing them of being complicit in mailing anthrax to Congress or something?
You're a piece of work.
Let me distill it down for you:
A very short while after 9/11 there was Bioterrorism on American soil, intended for Sen. Daschle, who was trying to scuttle the program BTW. The FBI says it's Hatfil, then blocks him from proving his innocence. Then in 2008 Ivins is found dead, they call it suicide and close the books.
The DoD was involved in an illegal program with make-believe military necessity, chicanerous legal maneuvering and ASS-U-ME science. They got sued and lost. They F@cked over a lot of my brothers-in-arms to do so. All the while, Bioport's executives and shareholders (retired Flag Officers) cashed the checks. And guess what, Mr. Taxpayer? You paid for it! And you'll continue paying for it, because they refresh the National Vaccine stockpile periodically.
Yeah, that. Never could figure out why anyone needed a vaccine for Anthrax, since you can wipe it out with broad spectrum antibiotic.
Take note!
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Well then , I guess it was all just a plot to kill off all the blacks in the military.
I knew it!!!
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There was a paper around regarding the disproportionate number of Black draftees during the Vietnam War, deploying via the combat arms fields. I don't know what ever became of it, haven't look into it since I came across it long time ago.
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You're a piece of work.
Let me distill it down for you:
A very short while after 9/11 there was Bioterrorism on American soil, intended for Sen. Daschle, who was trying to scuttle the program BTW. The FBI says it's Hatfil, then blocks him from proving his innocence. Then in 2008 Ivins is found dead, they call it suicide and close the books.
The DoD was involved in an illegal program with make-believe military necessity, chicanerous legal maneuvering and ASS-U-ME science. They got sued and lost. They F@cked over a lot of my brothers-in-arms to do so. All the while, Bioport's executives and shareholders (retired Flag Officers) cashed the checks. And guess what, Mr. Taxpayer? You paid for it! And you'll continue paying for it, because they refresh the National Vaccine stockpile periodically.
Take note!
So Bioport sold the government what the government asked for.
Those FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes:
It must be a lot of work handling all of the conspiracy theories that cross your desk every day.
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There was a paper around regarding the disproportionate number of Black draftees during the Vietnam War, deploying via the combat arms fields. I don't know what ever became of it, haven't look into it since I came across it long time ago.
There was also a report that Irish immigrants lived in slums in places like New York, Boston, and Chicago.
Stunning, I know.
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So Bioport sold the government what the government asked for.
Those FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes:
It must be a lot of work handling all of the conspiracy theories that cross your desk every day.
There's a thing in marketing called...creating the need. What you don't understand is that oft-times when a someone is retiring from Military service they may preplan their exit strategy which includes and entry into the private sector. IOW, they have a "job" waiting for them and it's not a job that is open for resumes. Many of those Flag Officers have (potential) Conflicts of Interests regarding their relationships and their military job functions.
We've already established that the need was over exaggerated. Draw your own conclusions.
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There's a thing in marketing called...creating the need. What you don't understand is that oft-times when a someone is retiring from Military service they may preplan their exit strategy which includes and entry into the private sector. IOW, they have a "job" waiting for them and it's not a job that is open for resumes. Many of those Flag Officers have (potential) Conflicts of Interests regarding their relationships and their military job functions.
We've already established that the need was over exaggerated. Draw your own conclusions.
So you've got nothing other than a gut feeling that SOMEONE is doing something bad. Got it.
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So you've got nothing other than a gut feeling that SOMEONE is doing something bad. Got it.
Not at all. I am saying that the possibility is there but I can't convict based on circumstantial evidence. But damn, the ducks sure are lined up.
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Not at all. I am saying that the possibility is there but I can't convict based on circumstantial evidence. But damn, the ducks sure are lined up.
Talk about stacking the deck...
So, if a black guy is convicted of something, then of course the deck was stacked against him.
If a company/white guy, then mere suspicion is sufficient to string 'em up.
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ve4u4xflfne2lc/File%20May%2018%2C%2015%2009%2001.jpeg?dl=0)
Talk about stacking the deck...
So, if a black guy is convicted of something, then of course the deck was stacked against him.
If a company/white guy, then mere suspicion is sufficient to string 'em up.
You can take that BS back where it came from.
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ve4u4xflfne2lc/File%20May%2018%2C%2015%2009%2001.jpeg?dl=0)You can take that BS back where it came from.
What BS.
It's exactly what you've been advocating.
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Johnny come lately add no value to the thread and throw in issues that are not in contention. See ya!
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Many of those Flag Officers have (potential) Conflicts of Interests regarding their relationships and their military job functions.
Can you elaborate? You state "many" flag officers, which I take to mean more than half. But for grins, let's say means just 10%. There are over 5,000 living retired Army generals in the United States. Can you show even 50 of them that have accepted jobs that constitute a conflict of interest?
No, I can't either. So if you cannot show even 1% of retired officers then you have no business impugning the integrity of the men who dedicated a career to protecting this country. Once again your ignorance is showing and it says more about you than it does the one that you attack.
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Can you elaborate? You state "many" flag officers, which I take to mean more than half. But for grins, let's say means just 10%. There are over 5,000 living retired Army generals in the United States. Can you show even 50 of them that have accepted jobs that constitute a conflict of interest?
No, I can't either. So if you cannot show even 1% of retired officers then you have no business impugning the integrity of the men who dedicated a career to protecting this country. Once again your ignorance is showing and it says more about you than it does the one that you attack.
It meant those that served on the Execitive Board at Michigan Biological Products company.
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Autism - Vaccine researcher found murdered, ruled a suicide:
http://yournewswire.com/body-of-doctor-who-linked-vaccines-to-autism-found-floating-in-river/
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Autism - Vaccine researcher found murdered, ruled a suicide:
http://yournewswire.com/body-of-doctor-who-linked-vaccines-to-autism-found-floating-in-river/
at least 3 possible scenarios...
1) he was murdered
2) he realized how wrong he was and was distraught about being an idiot
3) he reasons for suicide have absolutely nothing to do with autisms and vaccines
btw - it's either "found murdered" or committed suicide. It can't be both. More accurate would be to state he was found dead, ruled a suicide.
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at least 3 possible scenarios...
1) he was murdered
2) he realized how wrong he was and was distraught about being an idiot
3) he reasons for suicide have absolutely nothing to do with autisms and vaccines
btw - it's either "found murdered" or committed suicide. It can't be both. More accurate would be to state he was found dead, ruled a suicide.
As a trained suicide prevention and awareness "person" I was taught that a man shooting himself in the chest is atypical for suicide. Most firearm suicides for men are to the head and usually to the temple.
This one should be easy to forensically determine suicide or not, depending on how long the body was in the water....wait a second --- he shot himself then went for a swim???? Nah.... ;D ;D ;D
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As a trained suicide prevention and awareness "person" I was taught that a man shooting himself in the chest is atypical for suicide. Most firearm suicides for men are to the head and usually to the temple.
This one should be easy to forensically determine suicide or not, depending on how long the body was in the water....wait a second --- he shot himself then went for a swim???? Nah.... ;D ;D ;D
Following that "logic", would not someone wanting it look like a suicide have shot him in the temple?
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Following that "logic", would not someone wanting it look like a suicide have shot him in the temple?
But they didn't. Shooting in the temple usually requires the person to hold still. The bullet trajectory will not match that of a self-inflicted gun wound, nor would the GSR.
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This one should be easy to forensically determine suicide or not, depending on how long the body was in the water....wait a second --- he shot himself then went for a swim???? Nah.... ;D ;D ;D
Did they dredge the river to find the gun he may have shot himself with? If they did find it, it could be a suicide. If they didn't find it, perhaps they just didn't find it.
But he was either murdered or he committed suicide. The headline was showing some sort of bias or prejudice.
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Did they dredge the river to find the gun he may have shot himself with? If they did find it, it could be a suicide. If they didn't find it, perhaps they just didn't find it.
But he was either murdered or he committed suicide. The headline was showing some sort of bias or prejudice.
The article says they found it. I fail to see how finding the gun would be determinative.
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The article says they found it. I fail to see how finding the gun would be determinative.
It can be circumstantial.
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Agreed.
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Agreed.
You're not allowed to do that. Stop it.
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The article says they found it. I fail to see how finding the gun would be determinative.
A gun used in a suicide would likely be near the body, yes? (allowing for current/drift).
A gun used in an alledged suicide but found miles away from the body would not support a conclusion of suicide.
but, if you've made up your mind that it was murder, then no further discussion would be fruitful.
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A gun used in a suicide would likely be near the body, yes?
Except for Vince Foster. ::)
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Except for Vince Foster. ::)
Now there was a murdered man that "committed suicide". ::)
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Autism - Vaccine researcher found murdered, ruled a suicide:
http://yournewswire.com/body-of-doctor-who-linked-vaccines-to-autism-found-floating-in-river/
According to Ambrose Bierce, there are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy. I'll let you all fill in the blanks on this one.