PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on October 20, 2017, 10:54:34 AM
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I'm lucky. I can afford medical insurance for me and my wife. But it sure is expensive. Well, it is expensive for my wife, but I am now on Medicare. :-[
But I really feel sorry for all the people that simply can't afford health insurance. Even without Obamacare it is almost impossible to afford for too many people. It is a shame that Obamacare did nothing to improve the delivery system except to make it more expensive and to shift the burden around.
I'd like to repeal Obamacare completely and replace it with a competitive insurance industry, with one MAJOR qualification. I would be happy to pay a somewhat higher tax and offer subsidies to those that can't afford health insurance. Nobody would have to buy insurance, and very few people would get it for free, and they may have to settle for very basic plans. But that would be better than seeing so many people go bankrupt because of healthcare. That costs the taxpayer and consumer too.
Yeah, yeah. I know all the arguments about wealth redistribution, and "Why is it MY responsibility to pay for YOUR healthcare", etc. I get that.
But how many of you would really begrudge helping poor, working people to afford some amount of health care?
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I'm lucky. I can afford medical insurance for me and my wife. But it sure is expensive. Well, it is expensive for my wife, but I am now on Medicare. :-[
But I really feel sorry for all the people that simply can't afford health insurance. Even without Obamacare it is almost impossible to afford for too many people. It is a shame that Obamacare did nothing to improve the delivery system except to make it more expensive and to shift the burden around.
I'd like to repeal Obamacare completely and replace it with a competitive insurance industry, with one MAJOR qualification. I would be happy to pay a somewhat higher tax and offer subsidies to those that can't afford health insurance. Nobody would have to buy insurance, and very few people would get it for free, and they may have to settle for very basic plans. But that would be better than seeing so many people go bankrupt because of healthcare. That costs the taxpayer and consumer too.
Yeah, yeah. I know all the arguments about wealth redistribution, and "Why is it MY responsibility to pay for YOUR healthcare", etc. I get that.
But how many of you would really begrudge helping poor, working people to afford some amount of health care?
The poor working people have always had access to health care in this country.
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The poor working people have always had access to health care in this country.
Thats only partially true. My younger brother was divorced, had full custody of four boys, got layed off, then got injured and had to go to the emergency room. He couldnt pay and after about a year, the collection agencies came after him. He finally found a job making half what he used to and that salary is being garnished.
The husband of a woman that used to work for me had a similar story. They declared bankruptcy. I know there are many other stories.
So I say thecurrent system of providing “free” health care sucks and needs to be fixed. But Obamacare is notthe answer. If you are happy with shitty way it is now, then why would you be unhappy with a better way.
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Thats only partially true. My younger brother was divorced, had full custody of four boys, got layed off, then got injured and had to go to the emergency room. He couldnt pay and after about a year, the collection agencies came after him. He finally found a job making half what he used to and that salary is being garnished.
The husband of a woman that used to work for me had a similar story. They declared bankruptcy. I know there are many other stories.
So I say thecurrent system of providing “free” health care sucks and needs to be fixed. But Obamacare is notthe answer. If you are happy with shitty way it is now, then why would you be unhappy with a better way.
And for every bleeding heart sob story you post others (including me) can post stories where people without health insurance got medical attention and treatment.
Health insurance and universal healthcare are two separate issues and should never be confused.
Obamacare never actually had anything to do with providing healthcare to the poor. That's a ruse. Obamacare was about wealth redistribution, turning over 1/5th of the GDP to the federal government to control and those wonderful subsidies to the healthcare insurers. It also encompassed many areas not even related to healthcare. It was an all out power grab.
The reason you see so many congressmen and senators not wanting to repeal Obamacare is they are beholden to the health insurers who want their subsidies. Those subsidies have been bought and paid for (political donations) and your typical establishment politician is there to serve the donor class, not you.
Obamacare was so wonderful and such a great deal it had to be written in secret and pushed through on a reconciliation to be passed. Never forget the words of Nancy Pelosi.
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All true. I agree with you completely. But that has nothing to do with the point of my post.
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As a small 2 person business we have to buy our own health care.
We make too much to qualify for any ACA subsidies (greater than 400% Federal Poverty Level.)
In 2017, the cheapest available Bronze plan consumes about 13% of our pre-tax annual income. In 2018 it looks like premiums for the worst plan goes up to ~18% of our pre-tax income. The ACA says that if the lowest priced plan exceeds 8.16% of household income, the mandate is waived. So in theory we could buy health insurance that doesn't meet ACA requirements - but such plans have essentially all been closed down. There are short-term major medical/catastrophic insurance available, but hard to come by.
Households of older earners who aren't covered by employer offerings with incomes between ~64k and ~200K are pretty much paying full freight above and beyond all other health insurance customers: lower income households get a great subsidy, and the fraction falls below ~8% of income for the higher income households.
So yeah, ACA sucks and targets the independent middle class.
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Has anyone looked at Medishare?
We have patients who have it.
As a person who works in a provider's office, we like it. They pay in a timely fashion and have a very good network of doctors. Their reimbursement is very good.
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Has anyone looked at Medishare?
We have patients who have it.
As a person who works in a provider's office, we like it. They pay in a timely fashion and have a very good network of doctors. Their reimbursement is very good.
Assuming you are referring to the place I think you are, then I looked at it. From their membership qualifications:
"All adult Members age 18 and older must attest to a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. A church leader may be interviewed to verify their testimony."(*)
I am an atheist so am not eligible to join.
(*) https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/what-is-medishare/how-medi-share-works/medi-share-guidelines/ (https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/what-is-medishare/how-medi-share-works/medi-share-guidelines/)
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Assuming you are referring to the place I think you are, then I looked at it. From their membership qualifications:
"All adult Members age 18 and older must attest to a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. A church leader may be interviewed to verify their testimony.
Why do these people even need heath care insurance?
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Why do these people even need heath care insurance?
To keep lying shit like Hilary Clinton from ruining it by scamming their system.
The truth is simple.
They are a shared cost group and since everyone is sharing the burden, they close the group to offering their group benefits to like minded people of faith.
It's just like the NAACP, United NEGRO College Find and Congressional Black Caucus except that those evil Christians are doing it, which makes it awful, terrible and definitely not nice.
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To clarify - it is not medical INSURANCE that is expensive, it is medical CARE. We have heaped regulation after regulation and risk after risk onto doctors and the result has been astronomically high costs.
Until that is fixed, there will never be a magic way to pay for it and make it cheaper.
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Why do these people even need heath care insurance?
Stupid question.
Because none of us are immortal, but some of us get sick.
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Stupid question.
Because none of us are immortal, but some of us get sick.
Is your answer to my stupid question the same answer for the reason for public access defibrillators in one of our large churches?
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To clarify - it is not medical INSURANCE that is expensive, it is medical CARE. We have heaped regulation after regulation and risk after risk onto doctors and the result has been astronomically high costs.
Until that is fixed, there will never be a magic way to pay for it and make it cheaper.
I agree that medical care is expensive,
But so is medical insurance.
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Is your answer to my stupid question the same answer for the reason for public access defibrillators in one of our large churches?
Are you so bigoted that you think Christians should ne denied access to care to sooth your savage, narrow minded, bigotry?
What's next?
Do you support denying CHristians acceptance to colleges?
Oh, yeah. Lots of progressive college administrators are doing that routinely already.
Bigotry is so beautiful - but only when practiced by liberal, hypocrites.
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I agree that medical care is expensive,
But so is medical insurance.
This is like saying that steak is expensive because it costs a lot of money to raise cows.
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Are you so bigoted that you think Christians should ne denied access to care to sooth your savage, narrow minded, bigotry?
What's next?
Do you support denying CHristians acceptance to colleges?
Oh, yeah. Lots of progressive college administrators are doing that routinely already.
Bigotry is so beautiful - but only when practiced by liberal, hypocrites.
Simply pointing out the hypocrisy of requiring a personal relationship with the great healer in order to acquire health care with their group policy. I have no problem with beating the system.
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Simply pointing out the hypocrisy of requiring a personal relationship with the great healer in order to acquire health care with their group policy. I have no problem with beating the system.
This begs the question, do people with a personal relationship to Jesus tend to incur lower healthcare expenses?
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This begs the question, do people with a personal relationship to Jesus tend to incur lower healthcare expenses?
You are always welcome to come over to my side. At least our parties are way much more fun........ ;)
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This is like saying that steak is expensive because it costs a lot of money to raise cows.
I guess you could make a case that medical insurance is expensive (partially) because medical care is expensive.
But that doesn't negate the fact that insurance is expensive. I pay over $600/month for my wife's medical insurance and except for her AME, she hasn't been to a doctor is years. And next year, that is going up to almost $800/month.
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Simply pointing out the hypocrisy of requiring a personal relationship with the great healer in order to acquire health care with their group policy. I have no problem with beating the system.
There's no hypocrisy. Only your complete and utter ignorance of a belief system that there is a power greater than ones self.
Why do the faithless always have the need to attack the faithful? I guess small mindedness must have a place.
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There's no hypocrisy. Only your complete and utter ignorance of a belief system that there is a power greater than ones self.
Why do the faithless always have the need to attack the faithful? I guess small mindedness must have a place.
Last I heard Jesus was inclusive not exclusive, I'm not remembering him asking any condition before healing anyone.
Unlike this Medishare insurance plan.
I suspect he would treat this plan just as he did the money changers in the temple.
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A pathetic attack to support a bigoted personal agenda.
Congratulations.
I suspect the real problem with your little tirade of stupidity is that Your mommy made you go to Sunday School and now you hate Christians to get back at her.
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There's no hypocrisy. Only your complete and utter ignorance of a belief system that there is a power greater than ones self.
Why do the faithless always have the need to attack the faithful? I guess small mindedness must have a place.
It's arrogance, a common trait of people on the left of the political spectrum. Same reason that most, if not all, of them think AGW is a real factor.
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Last I heard Jesus was inclusive not exclusive...
Showing your ignorance once again. Ever hear of the "narrow gate" or perhaps Matthew 10:35?
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I don't understand the controversy over faith-based insurance pools or groups. If I wanted to solicit a bunch of nose-pickers to form a group to purchase insurance, that should be my right. Although, I might prefer going through a group like AOPA to buy insurance.
If you are one of those arguing against a faith-based group, then you are as bad as the liberal snow flakes that get their panties in a wad whenever they encounter something they don't understand or agree with. Or you are just a common internet troll that has to argue and oppose anything anyone else says.
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Showing your ignorance once again. Ever hear of the "narrow gate" or perhaps Matthew 10:35?
How many of you are participating in Medishare? I did not see where Medishare promised entry into the presence of God . You all win ! Now what?
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How many of you are participating in Medishare? I did not see where Medishare promised entry into the presence of God . You all win ! Now what?
What a maroon.
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I guess you could make a case that medical insurance is expensive (partially) because medical care is expensive.
But that doesn't negate the fact that insurance is expensive. I pay over $600/month for my wife's medical insurance and except for her AME, she hasn't been to a doctor is years. And next year, that is going up to almost $800/month.
Like most insurance, your specific insurance cost is not necessarily indicative of the overall loss cost for the insured pool. Though there is a very fair argument that health insurance is not really insurance, conceptually the insurance companies are still attempting to utilize the law of large numbers.
I do see a bit of a point in your post, though, and that is that the cost of health insurance is not DIRECTLY related to the cost of care. There is some fluidity in pricing revolving around profits (capitalism!), what the market will bear, etc. However I think it is largely tied to the cost of care.
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I begrudge no one. Not the poor, not working people, I hold no grudges.
Having said that, by what kind of rights based system do we pay for others valuable consideration? (by this I mean doctor/nurse/PT care, including medicine)
One might opine that the right to trial by jury, and by later legal decisions an indigent person is given free defense at the state expense is a 'right'. This was affirmed by SCOTUS in one of the rare situations where the court was unanimous. However - there are critical and at least to me obvious differences involved here. First, the govt in the form of a district/state/fed prosecutor is charging a citizen with a crime. The 'state' is the actor here, and is accusing a person of malfeasance. In the case of a health care payment, the 'state' has not caused the person to be sick/ill/injured. It's a result of living life.
Second, in the case of a public defender, the requirement is to see that justice is done, and that the liberty of the accused is protected. In the health care industry case, the requirement is that a person is given a better, happier, longer, or more beneficial lifespan. Note that all citizens are entitled to the 'PURSUIT' of happiness, the framers were careful not to guarantee happiness(or clearly good health), and surely not to guarantee that another person's labors would be subsidized by the state in order to care for the indigent.
There is no one in the US who has ever been denied any medical care that they can pay for, or insure payment for. Never, ever, ever. If you are wealthy, and drink yourself into a new liver, one will be found for you(David Crosby). If you are poor and drink yourself into a new liver, that doesn't mean the state has to provide one for you. Present yourself to a hospital with plenty of ready cash and you will receive the finest treatment on earth. That's why medical industry in the US treats thousands of foreign patients from around the world every year. Not only that, but we send more MDs around the world to OTHER countries to cover their medical problems.
Think of your industry. The job that you personally do every day(except fed/state empl). If you were told next month that now your labors are going to be governed by the rules of a new law, and that you would be paid not based on your skill, or your training, or your experience, but by a scale designed by the same people who run the IRS. Think about that for a second. You are no longer the arbiter of your destiny. Your payment, your advancement, your very labors that you have trained so hard for many years are now in the hands of some 'crats in a suburb of DC, in a gray building, with a bunch of GS-11s deciding your financial fate. It scares the shit out of me, because I happen to be in one of those places where critical 'need' is being built into the system. Once the fedguv determines that your labor has now become a national resource, to do with as it sees fit, what kind of liberty are we defending?
Should poor working people die younger and live less productive lives than wealthy people? When the feds stick a gun in my back, and threaten me with prison while asking the question, the answer is no longer relevant. Pay other peoples health bills, or go to jail for tax evasion is an affront to liberty, and smacks of not just socialism, but communism. I'm out. Sorry(not really)
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Last I heard Jesus was inclusive not exclusive, I'm not remembering him asking any condition before healing anyone.
Unlike this Medishare insurance plan.
I suspect he would treat this plan just as he did the money changers in the temple.
Yes, because how he treated the money changers was inclusive.
I am personally sick of others saying that Jesus would have approved of X. It is a use of Him for politics. Jesus did and would condemn sin and at the same time offer the sinner the opportunity to come back to God. But those who don't are pretty much left out in the cold. Go forth and sin no more or sin and remove yourself from God's family. Your call.
I don't believe Jesus would have much to say one way or another over Medishare.
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Yes, because how he treated the money changers was inclusive.
I am personally sick of others saying that Jesus would have approved of X. It is a use of Him for politics. Jesus did and would condemn sin and at the same time offer the sinner the opportunity to come back to God. But those who don't are pretty much left out in the cold. Go forth and sin no more or sin and remove yourself from God's family. Your call.
I don't believe Jesus would have much to say one way or another over Medishare.
Outside of the literal words of the Bible, I don't know how anyone knows what Jesus might do or say about anything, especially in modern times. Saying that Jesus would have approved of something is no different than saying he wouldn't have, don't you think?
Anyway, I agree it's silly to talk about whether Jesus approves of Medishare.
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Anyway, I agree it's silly to talk about whether Jesus approves of Medishare.
I couldn't agree more.
The new leftist norm is to attack anything and anybody that does not conform to their ever changing, highly hypocritical version of goodness.
It really only took a short time for the left to go from "hating" Confederate statues to hating the American flag. The way toward that type of bigotry and discrimination was paved by the fairly new hatred the left has for Israel and Jews, masculinity, heterosexuality, marriage and monogamy.
The connective tissue is always the same.
The modern (Not At All) liberals Hate with impunity that which they fail to successfully achieve. And then they hate those who do achieve, and everything those people hold dear becomes the enemy.
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I couldn't agree more.
The new leftist norm is to attack anything and anybody that does not conform to their ever changing, highly hypocritical version of goodness.
It really only took a short time for the left to go from "hating" Confederate statues to hating the American flag. The way toward that type of bigotry and discrimination was paved by the fairly new hatred the left has for Israel and Jews, masculinity, heterosexuality, marriage and monogamy.
The connective tissue is always the same.
The modern (Not At All) liberals Hate with impunity that which they fail to successfully achieve. And then they hate those who do achieve, and everything those people hold dear becomes the enemy.
Sorry, but I see that hate and disregard for others opinions on both sides of the isle. Granted, it is more widespread among liberals, and liberals seem to be more publicly outspoken about it, but I see it all over.
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Outside of the literal words of the Bible, I don't know how anyone knows what Jesus might do or say about anything, especially in modern times. Saying that Jesus would have approved of something is no different than saying he wouldn't have, don't you think?
Not entirely. We know that He absolutely condemned sin, He could do nothing else. So if we see the same sin today then we know that it's wrong. We also know what the apostles taught about how be a Christian and I have to presume they learned it all from Jesus.
The people are a different story, everyone is invited to the show as long as they follow the rules...only some of which we know 100% for certain.
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Sorry, but I see that hate and disregard for others opinions on both sides of the isle. Granted, it is more widespread among liberals, and liberals seem to be more publicly outspoken about it, but I see it all over.
Most (not all, but a huge majority) conservatives are more likely to live and let live than the majority (not a minority, or even a significant minority) of modern day liberals.
For some reason prejudice, bigotry and segregation are an integral part of liberalism these days and the perpetrators of these things are so lost in the fog of their hypocrisy that they can’t seem to understand even a little of what they are protesting for.
It is alarming to see the devotion to things they can’t define, understand, or even verbalize, but liberalism has become a hiding place for the intellectually lazy, casually bigoted and disgustingly racist and sexist. Hypocrisy has become the sole weapon of liberal offense and their sole defense at the same time, and the leading democrats just sit back and laugh about it.
Liberalism has seriously taken on a patina of mental illness, not seen since the thirties when a guy named Adolf lit the flames of world war, while his mentally deficient followers cheered the end of the world.