PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on May 02, 2017, 03:52:39 PM
-
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/29/opinion/sunday/when-communism-inspired-americans.html
-
I don't click links to the NYT, fuck them.
-
I don't click links to the NYT, fuck them.
Shame you feel that way. They have a lot of good stuff on how other people think.
-
Shame you feel that way. They have a lot of good stuff on how other people think.
They don't think, they feel.
-
Shame you feel that way. They have a lot of good stuff on how other people think.
I rarely click links that don't have some sort of a comment to show me why I should click that link.
And I even more rarely click links to videos.
-
From the article:
At a rally in New York City in 1962, the famously liberal journalist Murray Kempton said to an audience full of old Reds: “I have known many Communists in my life. I have not known them as criminals. I knew them once as activists — and we had our quarrels. But while this country has not been kind to you, it has been fortunate in having you. You have been arrested, you have been followed, you have had your phones bugged, you have had your children fired. Throughout this, I can think of numbers of you I have known who have remained gallant and pleasant and unbroken.” He added, “I salute you and I hope for times to be better.”
My mother was in the audience that night and said, when she came home: “America was fortunate to have had the Communists here. They, more than most, prodded the country into becoming the democracy it always said it was.”
My parents were working-class socialists. I grew up in the late 1940s and early ’50s thinking of them and their friends as what they themselves called “progressives.” The sociology of the progressive world was complex. At its center were full-time organizers for the Communist Party, at the periphery left-wing sympathizers, and at various points in between everything from rank-and-file party card holders to respected fellow travelers.
First of all, America is NOT A DEMOCRACY. I hear politicians, and activists (many if not most are lawyers) say this all the time. I heard both Clintons, and Obama say it, as well as some Republicans. We are a Constitutional Representative Republic. Democracies are mob rule.
Also, I was reading a article last week about why the American Jewish culture is more than 90% liberal/progressive, and strict Democrat voters. I can't locate the article now, but it seems that many Jews emigrated from Russia, and landed in NYC, and some other larger cities. There seems to be a Bolshevik tradition among these immigrants that values communism/socialism, and it is deep rooted in their cultural history. Maybe Michael can expound on this.
-
I've often wondered that myself Anthony. It is mind boggling to me why a Jewish person would favor collectivist economies, and socialist systems when Hitler was such a socialist. And liberal democrats who want to disarm populations when disarming the citizenry allows such like the Holocaust. And the Democrats are SOOOOOOOOOOO anti-Israel. And so reluctant to fight Islamic extremists who more than any group on the planet hate them. What are they thinking to side with Democrats???
But I think you hit the nail. I really believe people's politics are - more than anything - a result of cultural upbringing. VERY FEW people actually apply critical thinking skills to politics, most just follow their circles of friends, family tradition, and local communities. And maybe even more than that, what media they consume. So if you're of Russian extraction and NYC is all you've known of America, you don't have much hope of being anything but a liberal.
That applies to all of us; conservatives aren't much better. If you've grown up fundamentalist Christian in rural flyover country, chances are you're going to be a conservative whether you understand anything about free market economics or not.
-
You guys keep confusing American Jews with Israeli Jews. They are definitely not the same thing.
-
You guys keep confusing American Jews with Israeli Jews. They are definitely not the same thing.
Where did I mention Israeli Jews?
-
You guys keep confusing American Jews with Israeli Jews. They are definitely not the same thing.
Are you talking about what I said? No they're not but I still don't see why American Jews would support Democrats supporting Muslims over Israeli Jews.
-
Are you talking about what I said? No they're not but I still don't see why American Jews would support Democrats supporting Muslims over Israeli Jews.
I have been asking that question for years. I have never received a logical answer. But I think the distinction between American Jews and Israeli Jews is valid.
-
But I think the distinction between American Jews and Israeli Jews is valid.
I do too. However, Israeli Jews are liberal/progressive also, but in somewhat different ways. Look at their laws regarding LEGAL gun ownership for citizens.
-
I do three. Any time you have a group disperse to different locations they will evolve separately. Their language, culture, and even physical characteristics will diverge over time.
Maybe all Jewish people retain a certain tribalism that embraces socialist/communist property division, you redistribute wealth, which is pretty basic to leftism including Democrats. It's a system that works well in small groups but fails spectacularly in large nation states.
I have heard some Jewish Democrats talk in support of Israel when it comes to U.S. foreign policy. On that issue they don't agree with their fellow Democrats, but on gun control, social programs, etc, they are liberals. That's fair enough, I respect it when people take stands on the different issues without falling lockstep with their chosen party.
-
New York Jews tend to follow the democrat line to a fault, just like so many Irish democrats embrace all democrat sponsored corruption.
Lumping Jews together into one basket is kind of like liberals calling all conservatives misogynist, homophobic, racists.
The lies comfort the closed minded liberals but don't prove anything other than the shallow left really is clueless.
-
New York Jews tend to follow the democrat line to a fault, just like so many Irish democrats embrace all democrat sponsored corruption.
Lumping Jews together into one basket is kind of like liberals calling all conservatives misogynist, homophobic, racists.
The lies comfort the closed minded liberals but don't prove anything other than the shallow left really is clueless.
I know some conservative Jews, and Israeli Jews that just shake their head at American, liberal/progressive Jews, especially the NYC variety. So, yes, it isn't fair to lump any race, or religion into one basket.
-
New York Jews tend to follow the democrat line to a fault, just like so many Irish democrats embrace all democrat sponsored corruption.
Also agree. There's something about New York City that makes people there what they are (liberal Democrat). Later when I have time I'll try to find a link to an excellent article by a guy who divided the U.S. into at least 7 sub-nations, and New York City (not state!) was a nation all unto it's own. They're so steeped in themselves they are hardly aware anything exists outside NYC.
-
Also agree. There's something about New York City that makes people there what they are (liberal Democrat). Later when I have time I'll try to find a link to an excellent article by a guy who divided the U.S. into at least 7 sub-nations, and New York City (not state!) was a nation all unto it's own. They're so steeped in themselves they are hardly aware anything exists outside NYC.
As you note, it is a geographic thing as well as cultural, and I assume that geography eventually impacts culture as well. If you look at the county by county voting map for the last Presidential election, I think the "sub-nations" will be very evident. Without NYC, and L.A. metro areas Hillary wouldn't have even been close in the popular vote.
-
It is incumbent on Jews to become educated and scholarly. You can't actually be an observant Jew without literacy, and Jewish culture favors erudition. Liberal bastions are often found in centers of scholarship and technology.
-
It is incumbent on Jews to become educated and scholarly. You can't actually be an observant Jew without literacy, and Jewish culture favors erudition. Liberal bastions are often found in centers of scholarship and technology.
Yes this is a good point.
-
It is incumbent on Jews to become educated and scholarly. You can't actually be an observant Jew without literacy, and Jewish culture favors erudition. Liberal bastions are often found in centers of scholarship and technology.
Many other cultures value, education, scholarly achievement, literacy, and technology. However, these do NOT have to mandate a harmful chase of a failed UTOPIA that cannot be achieved nor that would create a better world for humans. Human nature, and humans do not prosper in a UTOPIA. That is the main disconnect with scholars that think they know better because they have a couple of degrees.
I submit that the American Jewish culture (and others) are misguided, and while many are prosperous, the tactics, strategies, and business practices used to gain that prosperity are opposite to their political philosophies. It just seems a bit hypocritical to me, and many of my conservative Jewish friends feel the same way. My liberal/progressive cousins who are of mostly Italian ethnic background, and live in New Jersey share the same hypocrisy, so it's not just a race/religion based argument I am making. They have Obama family photos on their refrigerators, and because they have a few degrees in "Education" think they are oh, so sophisticated, and intellectual.
-
Many other cultures value, education, scholarly achievement, literacy, and technology.
Buddism comes to mind, but it is the only one that does. There are millions of illiterate Christians. I've met many. There are hundreds of millions of illiterate Muslims. Literacy is not an essential part of the religion in these faiths. It is in Judaism, and it is a profound difference.
I submit that the American Jewish culture (and others) are misguided, and while many are prosperous, the tactics, strategies, and business practices used to gain that prosperity are opposite to their political philosophies. It just seems a bit hypocritical to me, and many of my conservative Jewish friends feel the same way. My liberal/progressive cousins who are of mostly Italian ethnic background, and live in New Jersey share the same hypocrisy, so it's not just a race/religion based argument I am making. They have Obama family photos on their refrigerators, and because they have a few degrees in "Education" think they are oh, so sophisticated, and intellectual.
You are of course entitled to your opinion. I am sorry you don' get along with some of your family.
-
You are of course entitled to your opinion. I am sorry you don' get along with some of your family.
As you are entitled to your opinion. However, I get along great with my family, and love them dearly. I just don't allow politics to get in the way. We have a great relationship, and I see them relatively often.
-
As you are entitled to your opinion. However, I get along great with my family, and love them dearly. I just don't allow politics to get in the way. We have a great relationship, and I see them relatively often.
I am genuinely glad to hear it. Few things in life are more important than family.