Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 05, 2021, 01:43:51 PM
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7
Post by: Rush on October 05, 2021, 02:18:35 PM
But the bad thing is for society to believe that vaccinating everyone is going to eliminate this disease. This (other than the money) is driving people to want mandatory vaccination. The false hope that we can rid ourselves of Covid19 like we did smallpox.
There is also the false and irrational belief that others not being vaccinated is a danger to you if you are vaccinated. This might have been reasonable when we thought the vaccine prevented you from getting it, but now that we know it doesn’t, we know you are in just as much danger of getting covid from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated, possibly more, because with a milder case you’re more likely to go out and interact with people.
Furthermore, the more people are vaccinated, the higher the likelihood that if you get covid, you got it from a vaccinated person.
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2021, 02:26:10 PM
So it’s becoming clear that the vaccine does nothing to prevent the disease. What it does do is prevent more serious illness when you do get it. That’s a good thing.
But the bad thing is for society to believe that vaccinating everyone is going to eliminate this disease. This (other than the money) is driving people to want mandatory vaccination. The false hope that we can rid ourselves of Covid19 like we did smallpox.
There is also the false and irrational belief that others not being vaccinated is a danger to you if you are vaccinated. This might have been reasonable when we thought the vaccine prevented you from getting it, but now that we know it doesn’t, we know you are in just as much danger of getting covid from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated, possibly more, because with a milder case you’re more likely to go out and interact with people.
Furthermore, the more people are vaccinated, the higher the likelihood that if you get covid, you got it from a vaccinated person.
This is all about money. And a huge power grab.
Absolutely nothing to do with public health.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 05, 2021, 03:03:44 PM
So it’s becoming clear that the vaccine does nothing to prevent the disease. What it does do is prevent more serious illness when you do get it. That’s a good thing.
But the bad thing is for society to believe that vaccinating everyone is going to eliminate this disease. This (other than the money) is driving people to want mandatory vaccination. The false hope that we can rid ourselves of Covid19 like we did smallpox.
Very good points overall. I don’t know that I personally would say “nothing to prevent”. It does apparently reduce the odds, but not by much with the variants. And not anywhere near enough to successfully eradicate COVID-19 - not by a long shot.
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 05, 2021, 04:06:27 PM
An observational peer-reviewed study possibly of interest:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7
Their methodology appears suspect to me. They acknowledge counting of cases is highly non-uniform across countries and US counties but use the data anyway. The trend line in Figure 1 is dominated by the bulk of data points under 65% vaccination rate, a value which was never considered adequate to slow the spread.
And they made the mistake of including a large number of countries in Africa that report both low number of cases and low vaccination rates. This causes the clustering of data points that can be seen near the (0, 0) coordinate. As a result of this dubious data that cluster drags the trend line down toward that area while the other points drag it up and to the right.
There is a definite, if modest, trend visible in Figure 2 that they don’t discuss or acknowledge.
In both Figure 2 and 3 they shows histograms every 5% from 0% but stop at 70% - right about where things should get interesting. Ugh.
Lastly, their study is case rates, not death rates. They do that because their thesis disregards death rate reduction in favor of case rate reduction. If the intent is to argue against vaccination then you publish a study on the metric favoring your view, no?
Post by: Number7 on October 05, 2021, 05:33:44 PM
Wash, rinse, repeat...
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 05, 2021, 06:14:14 PM
Every time studies show the suspect value of the scam vaccines, the pussy brigade shows up and claims the math is wrong.
Wash, rinse, repeat...
I do not resemble that remark. I think a Pussy brigade would look more like this:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1F2285P24Xw/XrmjQ0hd_FI/AAAAAAAGAvE/xbKGatkrQFER6rTV9tIObr_lhV8wBxOWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Screenshot_47128.jpg)
Post by: nddons on October 05, 2021, 06:29:52 PM
I do not resemble that remark. I think a Pussy brigade would look more like this:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1F2285P24Xw/XrmjQ0hd_FI/AAAAAAAGAvE/xbKGatkrQFER6rTV9tIObr_lhV8wBxOWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Screenshot_47128.jpg)
I always enjoy Anthony’s family photos.
No “Like” button on Tapatalk, but
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/KDVTAN0CycdPkJKZiI/giphy.gif)
Post by: Number7 on October 05, 2021, 06:34:56 PM
I do not resemble that remark. I think a Pussy brigade would look more like this:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1F2285P24Xw/XrmjQ0hd_FI/AAAAAAAGAvE/xbKGatkrQFER6rTV9tIObr_lhV8wBxOWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Screenshot_47128.jpg)
Wasn't she a Bond girl???
Post by: Number7 on October 05, 2021, 06:43:12 PM
Merck to release their ivermectin knock off and make billions, after the biden communist regime has spent millions blocking ivermectin to insure Merck profits.
Now... cue the pussy brigade to run out and object.
https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/ivermectin---truth-and-totalitarianism/article_2e03f334-252f-11ec-a086-eb72bc65ec02.html
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 06, 2021, 05:11:41 AM
That doesn't stop people from making "mistakes"
Post by: Anthony on October 06, 2021, 05:54:50 AM
I always enjoy Anthony’s family photos.
I have NEVER been married to ANY of Pussy Galore's Flying Circus, but always had a thing for Honor Blackman and although quite older than me, did not return my calls! Neither did Diana Rigg (Emma Peel). The British chicks were the coolest. :D
(I did have a Piper Cherokee prior to the Tiger, so there is that connection.) They flew 235's if memory serves. This is an aviation board after all.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 05:59:22 AM
Post by: Anthony on October 06, 2021, 06:03:44 AM
Yeah, vaccines don't help at all. That's why an overwhelming majority of COVID patients are unvaccinated.
That is another Leftist and Media LIE. A real doctor is on board now, so we can hear actual medical reality instead of your NBC/MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, PBS, Comcast, Time Warner, Google, Weather Channel talking points.
Post by: Username on October 06, 2021, 06:04:56 AM
Yeah, vaccines don't help at all. That's why an overwhelming majority of COVID patients are unvaccinated.Haven't you read the thread? THIS vaccine doesn't keep you from getting the virus. It may help you from getting severely sick when you do get the virus. Yes, the hospitals have unvaccinated sick people in them. Because the vaccine doesn't keep you from getting the virus, it keeps you (maybe) from getting very sick. Please try to keep up.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:06:32 AM
That is another Leftist and Media LIE. A real doctor is on board now, so we can hear actual medical reality instead of your NBC/MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, PBS, Comcast, Time Warner, Google, Weather Channel talking points.Sorry Anthony, but he latest surge has primarily hit the unvaccinated, and hit them hard. That vast minority are vaccinated folks, and most of them have comorbidities that worsen the infection. The vaccines are doing what they're supposed to do, keeping folks out of the hospital.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:07:35 AM
Haven't you read the thread? THIS vaccine doesn't keep you from getting the virus. It may help you from getting severely sick when you do get the virus. Yes, the hospitals have unvaccinated sick people in them. Because the vaccine doesn't keep you from getting the virus, it keeps you (maybe) from getting very sick. Please try to keep up.
There is no vaccine that can keep you from being infected by a virus. Vaccines don't do that at all. What they do is reduce viral symptoms so you aren't damaged by the disease.
Post by: Username on October 06, 2021, 06:11:25 AM
There is no vaccine that can keep you from being infected by a virus. Vaccines don't do that at all. What they do is reduce viral symptoms so you aren't damaged by the disease.Very good. Now tell me why the government mandates the vaccine. It's not to protect others.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:15:07 AM
Sorry Anthony, but he latest surge has primarily hit the unvaccinated, and hit them hard. That vast minority are vaccinated folks, and most of them have comorbidities that worsen the infection. The vaccines are doing what they're supposed to do, keeping folks out of the hospital.
All propaganda.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:15:46 AM
Very good. Now tell me why the government mandates the vaccine. It's not to protect others.
Its to keep you out of the hospital so we don't swamp our medical system with COVID patients. It pretty much worked too, had vaccines not reached the penetrance they did we'd have "death panels" everywhere as doctors figured out who bet to treat with limited beds and resources. Had everyone been vaccinated there'd have been no surge.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:16:24 AM
All propaganda.
How many vaccinated people do you know who are dying in hospital from COVID?
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:19:53 AM
Its to keep you out of the hospital so we don't swamp our medical system with COVID patients.
More bullshit. Follow the money chump. The pharmaceuticals are handing out millions upon millions to politicians to mandate their vaccines. They are making record profits in the billions.
And if your beloved government was actually concerned about overwhelming the medical system, they wouldn't be firing medical workers.
It pretty much worked too, had vaccines not reached the penetrance they did we'd have "death panels" everywhere as doctors figured out who bet to treat with limited beds and resources. Had everyone been vaccinated there'd have been no surge.
Again, that's blatant propaganda.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:22:23 AM
How many vaccinated people do you know who are dying in hospital from COVID?
Go read. It's in the news daily. Report after report. But the communist MSM you adore won't report on it.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/vermont-76-of-september-covid-deaths-were-fully-vaccinated/
Post by: Username on October 06, 2021, 06:28:04 AM
Its to keep you out of the hospital so we don't swamp our medical system with COVID patients. It pretty much worked too, had vaccines not reached the penetrance they did we'd have "death panels" everywhere as doctors figured out who bet to treat with limited beds and resources. Had everyone been vaccinated there'd have been no surge.Ah, so the vaccine is there to protect hospitals, not people. Masks are to protect hospitals, not people. Hospitals are firing unvaccinated health care workers to protect hospitals, not people. Makes a lot of sense.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 06:36:18 AM
Ah, so the vaccine is there to protect hospitals, not people. Masks are to protect hospitals, not people. Hospitals are firing unvaccinated health care workers to protect hospitals, not people. Makes a lot of sense.
It does if you are a low information, communist, democrat, taking orders from your communist masters and so afraid to speak out of line less you get canceled and lose your precious associate professorship...
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:45:37 AM
Ah, so the vaccine is there to protect hospitals, not people. Masks are to protect hospitals, not people. Hospitals are firing unvaccinated health care workers to protect hospitals, not people. Makes a lot of sense.
In a hospital masks are to protect patients. To protect the medical staff they use face shields.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:47:09 AM
Go read. It's in the news daily. Report after report. But the communist MSM you adore won't report on it.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/vermont-76-of-september-covid-deaths-were-fully-vaccinated/
700,000 people in the US have died from COVID. And yes, there have been some vaccinated folks who got it from the virus. It isn't perfect. But still, the vast majority of deaths since the appearance of the vaccines has been the unvaccinated.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:52:15 AM
700,000 people in the US have diedfromwith COVID.
Understand the distinction.
And yes, there have been some vaccinated folks who got it from the virus. It isn't perfect. But still, the vast majority of deaths since the appearance of the vaccines has been the unvaccinated.
You and I don't know the actual numbers, no one does because those keeping the numbers are obfuscating the data to steer a narrative.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 07:05:41 AM
You and I don't know the actual numbers, no one does because those keeping the numbers are obfuscating the data to steer a narrative.
And once again I ask for the basis of this narrative. it is very hard to obfuscate numbers on this scale. Someone will blab eventually.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 07:14:26 AM
And once again I ask for the basis of this narrative. it is very hard to obfuscate numbers on this scale. Someone will blab eventually.
Yes.....yes....the government never lies to us...............
Trust in our government!
Post by: bflynn on October 06, 2021, 07:30:02 AM
That is another Leftist and Media LIE. A real doctor is on board now, so we can hear actual medical reality instead of your NBC/MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, PBS, Comcast, Time Warner, Google, Weather Channel talking points.
I think what he said and what you said aren't in conflict.
Most of the hospital patients are not vaccinated - factual, because even with the few breakthrough cases, the vaccine mitigates it.. This vaccine won't completely stop you from getting the virus - also true. It will probably block it enough that you don't catch it at all.
The influenza vaccine isn't even this effective, you can still get a full on case of the flu. The MMR and polio vaccines are very effective, I've never heard of a breakthrough case with them. Ok, the covid vaccine is in the middle.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 07:32:12 AM
And once again I ask for the basis of this narrative. it is very hard to obfuscate numbers on this scale. Someone will blab eventually.
You're full of shit... again, as usual.
You and flynnee constantly ignore any citations showing corrupted numbers and then you pretend that anything in violation of your communist narrative is dishonest.
Just like a good communist sheep.
Post by: jb1842 on October 06, 2021, 07:36:55 AM
How many vaccinated people do you know who are dying in hospital from COVID?
Zero. And zero unvaccinated, too.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 07:46:14 AM
Zero. And zero unvaccinated, too.
A hermit knows no sickness but his own. :)
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 07:46:38 AM
I have NEVER been married to ANY of Pussy Galore's Flying Circus, but always had a thing for Honor Blackman and although quite older than me, did not return my calls! Neither did Diana Rigg (Emma Peel). The British chicks were the coolest. :D
(I did have a Piper Cherokee prior to the Tiger, so there is that connection.) They flew 235's if memory serves. This is an aviation board after all.
I had a girl crush on Diana Rigg.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 08:03:41 AM
I have NEVER been married to ANY of Pussy Galore's Flying Circus, but always had a thing for Honor Blackman and although quite older than me, did not return my calls! Neither did Diana Rigg (Emma Peel). The British chicks were the coolest. :D
(I did have a Piper Cherokee prior to the Tiger, so there is that connection.) They flew 235's if memory serves. This is an aviation board after all.
Bond Bad Girl: You wouldn't shoot me James. You'd miss me....
BANG!!!
Bond: I never miss.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 06, 2021, 08:11:07 AM
Its to keep you out of the hospital so we don't swamp our medical system with COVID patients. It pretty much worked too, had vaccines not reached the penetrance they did we'd have "death panels" everywhere as doctors figured out who bet to treat with limited beds and resources. Had everyone been vaccinated there'd have been no surge.
What happened to "two weeks to flatten the curve"? Remember, way back in 2020? No one was "vaccinated" back then.
Post by: jb1842 on October 06, 2021, 08:34:21 AM
A hermit knows no sickness but his own. :)
Did you think that up by yourself, or did you have to use the internet in an attempt to provide a witty comeback? Why do you always dismiss others when the answer doesn't conform to what you want it to be?
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 08:54:49 AM
What happened to "two weeks to flatten the curve"? Remember, way back in 2020? No one was "vaccinated" back then.
What happened was, they saw the potential for catastrophic economic damage from shutdowns and began a coordinated conspiracy (their word in their published confession on Time.org) to use the shutdowns to get rid of Trump.
Since then they continue the panic porn and shutdowns because they see how much money and power it brings the elite, and how it destroys the one class that threatens their supremacy: the middle class. Plus it helps them double down on divisive hatred between right and left common people to prevent the populist deplorables and the anti-oligarch leftists from joining forces against the centralized government/monopolistic capitalist power structure.
Fueling hatred by the vaccinated against the unvaccinated is just one example of this.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 09:31:03 AM
What happened was, they saw the potential for catastrophic economic damage from shutdowns and began a coordinated conspiracy (their word in their published confession on Time.org) to use the shutdowns to get rid of Trump.
Since then they continue the panic porn and shutdowns because they see how much money and power it brings the elite, and how it destroys the one class that threatens their supremacy: the middle class. Plus it helps them double down on divisive hatred between right and left common people to prevent the populist deplorables and the anti-oligarch leftists from joining forces against the centralized government/monopolistic capitalist power structure.
Fueling hatred by the vaccinated against the unvaccinated is just one example of this.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.gfycat.com%2FWebbedPhysicalHagfish-size_restricted.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Post by: Anthony on October 06, 2021, 09:37:27 AM
What happened was, they saw the potential for catastrophic economic damage from shutdowns and began a coordinated conspiracy (their word in their published confession on Time.org) to use the shutdowns to get rid of Trump.
Since then they continue the panic porn and shutdowns because they see how much money and power it brings the elite, and how it destroys the one class that threatens their supremacy: the middle class. Plus it helps them double down on divisive hatred between right and left common people to prevent the populist deplorables and the anti-oligarch leftists from joining forces against the centralized government/monopolistic capitalist power structure.
Fueling hatred by the vaccinated against the unvaccinated is just one example of this.
I know I keep saying this, but it still amazes me how many (maybe most???) people, otherwise reasonably intelligent, buy into the PANIC PORN. Masks, double masks, anti vaccination HATE, wanting those people to not be treated and DIE. What they HELL? When did we become Nazi Germany, Communist China, or the Soviet Union?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 06, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
Yeah, vaccines don't help at all. That's why an overwhelming majority of COVID patients are unvaccinated.
watch out for the people that can't figure out how the pool of people that are vaccinated vs the pool of people that are unvaccinated will impact the number of covid patients.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 06, 2021, 09:43:36 AM
In a hospital masks are to protect patients. To protect the medical staff they use face shields.
that's not the protocol used by any number of medical facilities.
Post by: nddons on October 06, 2021, 09:43:45 AM
Yeah, vaccines don't help at all. That's why an overwhelming majority of COVID patients are unvaccinated.More people in the US died from Covid in 2021 (when we’ve had massive amounts of vaccinations) than died of Covid in 2020.
Why?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 06, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
700,000 people in the US have died from COVID. And yes, there have been some vaccinated folks who got it from the virus. It isn't perfect. But still, the vast majority of deaths since the appearance of the vaccines has been the unvaccinated.
no. 700,000 people had covid when they died.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 09:52:54 AM
More people in the US died from Covid in 2021 (when we’ve had massive amounts of vaccinations) than died of Covid in 2020.
Why?
Folks got tired of masks and distancing, and started ignoring all the recommendations coming out of the medical establishment. The virus started spreading won't stop until either we
- All get vaccinated
- Start masking and social distancing
- The virus burns its way through the population
I myself prefer number 1, as it limits the social and economic disruption caused by the virus. I suspect we're going to see number 3, due to attitudes like the ones I see here. I wonder if I will teach face to face again during my career.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 06, 2021, 10:00:08 AM
Folks got tired of masks and distancing, and started ignoring all the recommendations coming out of the medical establishment. The virus started spreading won't stop until either weIf we did #3 March 2020, this would all be behinds us and most of the population would be immune. Naturally.
- All get vaccinated
- Start masking and social distancing
- The virus burns its way through the population
I myself prefer number 1, as it limits the social and economic disruption caused by the virus. I suspect we're going to see number 3, due to attitudes like the ones I see here. I wonder if I will teach face to face again during my career.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:17:21 AM
If we did #3 March 2020, this would all be behinds us and most of the population would be immune. Naturally.
And we'd have 3 million deaths, not 700,000. Actually, it'd be worse than that, since lots of folks would be unable to get to hospitals choked with COVID patients. That actually happened in a county north of here a week ago. All the hospitals in the county were so full they were turning away ambulances. If you were taking someone for treatment in an ambulance you had to go outside the county.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 06, 2021, 10:22:30 AM
Folks got tired of masks and distancing, and started ignoring all the recommendations coming out of the medical establishment. The virus started spreading won't stop until either we
- All get vaccinated
- Start masking and social distancing
- The virus burns its way through the population
I myself prefer number 1, as it limits the social and economic disruption caused by the virus. I suspect we're going to see number 3, due to attitudes like the ones I see here. I wonder if I will teach face to face again during my career.
Believing that 100% “vaccination” would “stop the spread of the virus” is insane. This is not a vaccine at all, and it is not sterilizing. Variant after variant will arise and fall, like the flu. Eliminating this virus totally is a pipe dream. Experts (censored) have been telling us this for months.
The efficacy of the jab is waning. Big Pharm is scrambling to bilk massive profits however they can now that their stock is falling and people are waking up. Merck is apparently doing this with an ivermectin based drug that of course contains all manner of other ingredients.
If I believed for one instant that my getting this shot would even begin to help eliminate COVID, I would. But even CDC says the jab won’t prevent transmission of or contracting the virus. Fully vaccinated cohorts are giving COVID to each other, for heaven’s sake!
I despair of you.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Believing that 100% “vaccination” would “stop the spread of the virus” is insane. This is not a vaccine at all, and it is not sterilizing. Variant after variant will arise and fall, like the flu. Eliminating this virus totally is a pipe dream. Experts (censored) have been telling us this for months.
The efficacy of the jab is waning. Big Pharm is scrambling to bilk massive profits however they can now that their stock is falling and people are waking up. Merck is apparently doing this with an ivermectin based drug that of course contains all manner of other ingredients.
If I believed for one instant that my getting this shot would even begin to help eliminate COVID, I would. But even CDC says the jab won’t prevent transmission of or contracting the virus. Fully vaccinated cohorts are giving COVID to each other, for heaven’s sake!
I despair of you.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.makeameme.org%2Fcreated%2Fshes-right-you-r9qbsp.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:33:32 AM
Believing that 100% “vaccination” would “stop the spread of the virus” is insane. This is not a vaccine at all, and it is not sterilizing. Variant after variant will arise and fall, like the flu. Eliminating this virus totally is a pipe dream. Experts (censored) have been telling us this for months.
Were everyone vaccinated the virus would have much less ability to get a foothold. Moreover, even when it did the infection would be less severe and less likely to spread. A less severe infection means fewer replication cycles and fewer variants.
The efficacy of the jab is waning. Big Pharm is scrambling to bilk massive profits however they can now that their stock is falling and people are waking up. Merck is apparently doing this with an ivermectin based drug that of course contains all manner of other ingredients.
What is waning is maximum antibody count. You are still immune from the virus and will be for years. To maintain maximum immunity you might need a booster. Please note that at this time they're only recommended for folks over 65 (and those with medical conditions). The new drug from Merk is a nucleotide analog called Molnupiravir. It can get incorporated into the viral genome and then trick the virus into incorporating the wrong nucleotides in subsequent replications, causing a hypermutation phenotype from which the virus can't recover.
If I believed for one instant that my getting this shot would even begin to help eliminate COVID, I would. But even CDC says the jab won’t prevent transmission of or contracting the virus. Fully vaccinated cohorts are giving COVID to each other, for heaven’s sake!
No vaccine can prevent you from getting infected. What a vaccine can do is make it harder for a virus to get a foothold and make the disease more benign. That's what they've been designed to do since the time of Jenner. If you've been vaccinated you can still be infected and get sick from COVID. What you won't do is get radically sick, you won't go to the hospital and you won't die. You will be less infective (that is, giving off fewer viral particles and for a shorter time) and hopefully won't infect as many people. Moreover, if they're infected they're that much less likely to pass the virus on. That's how this stuff works.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 06, 2021, 10:47:25 AM
Project Veritas, countless nurses and doctors are speaking out and showing the devastation this jab is causing. Don’t tell us it’s not experimental, Steingar. Even owners of experimental aircraft have to take more legal and insurance precautions than recipients of this vaccine are allowed.
https://comedonchisciotte-org.translate.goog/il-medico-del-118-rompe-lomerta-sui-piu-fragili-il-vaccino-anti-covid-e-larma-letale/?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=it&_x_tr_pto=nui
Post by: nddons on October 06, 2021, 10:48:02 AM
And once again I ask for the basis of this narrative. it is very hard to obfuscate numbers on this scale. Someone will blab eventually.You can’t be this naive.
This doesn’t happen:
Appointed Department Head/Cabinet Member to Chief of Alphabet Department Data Collection: “Delete any data that calls into question Biden’s management of Covid!”
This does happen:
Appointed Department Head/Cabinet Member to Chief of Alphabet Department Data Collection: “Please provide the Secretary with a data analysis (charts and graphs) showing how many people died WITH Covid from 1/1/20 to 1/20/21, and how many people that died FROM Covid from 1/21/21 to date, and show which red states have the highest incidence of Covid cases and death, starting with Florida.”
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 06, 2021, 10:48:11 AM
Post by: nddons on October 06, 2021, 11:06:10 AM
If we did #3 March 2020, this would all be behinds us and most of the population would be immune. Naturally.As we have done for every disease outbreak in recorded history.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
One might wonder why then we do not mandate everyone get a flu shot. I guess the number of deaths from the flu each year is acceptable. What is a good rule of thumb for acceptable levels of death?
Perfesser won't go there.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 11:51:31 AM
Perfesser won't go there.
That pathetic, jerk is barely a lecturer, based on what his students have to say about his total incompetence.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 12:39:02 PM
Perfesser won't go there.
Lethality of influenza is a fell order of magnitude less than COVID. It isn't as contagious either. Moreover, the flu vaccines are more of a good guess than anything else. Its often different strains that hit than expected.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Lethality of influenza is a fell order of magnitude less than COVID. It isn't as contagious either. Moreover, the flu vaccines are more of a good guess than anything else. Its often different strains that hit than expected.
BULLSHIT
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 06, 2021, 12:43:17 PM
And we'd have 3 million deaths, not 700,000. Actually, it'd be worse than that, since lots of folks would be unable to get to hospitals choked with COVID patients. That actually happened in a county north of here a week ago. All the hospitals in the county were so full they were turning away ambulances. If you were taking someone for treatment in an ambulance you had to go outside the county.
That's extrapolation based on early death rates of already sick and elderly patients sent to die unprotected by governors of your Party.
Didn't happen in Sweden.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 12:49:18 PM
The efficacy of the jab is waning. Big Pharm is scrambling to bilk massive profits however they can now that their stock is falling and people are waking up. Merck is apparently doing this with an ivermectin based drug that of course contains all manner of other ingredients.
First, the efficacy of the vaccination is not waning at all. What is waning is peak antibody titer. If you were immunized against COVID you are still immune, and will be for years. Do try nd learn just a little immunology before you spout nonsense. The new Merk drug is a nucleotide analog called Molnupiravir. It is not an intestinal anti parasitic drug like Ivermectin, and works in a completely (and reasonably mechanistic) way. Molnupiravir is incorporated into viral genomes, but then lead to the insertion of incorrect ones in subsequent replications. This begins a mutagenic cascade that the virus cannot withstand. I really hope it works.
If I believed for one instant that my getting this shot would even begin to help eliminate COVID, I would. But even CDC says the jab won’t prevent transmission of or contracting the virus. Fully vaccinated cohorts are giving COVID to each other, for heaven’s sake!
No vaccine can prevent viral infection. What they can do is make it harder for the virus to get hold and reduce the severity of the disease and the amount of time you stay diseased. If you are vaccinated and get COVID you will not be as sick as long. you will not transmit the virus as much as an unvaccinated person would. You'll have lower viral titers in your blood, you will not be as severely sick to spread them, and you won't be as sick for as long. If those around you are vaccinated the lower titers of virus will have that much more difficulty setting up infections, and these will be attenuated so long as the virus hits vaccinated people. That's how this works. And works it does. We've eliminated Smallpox and Polio from our populations. Thankfully other debilitating childhood diseases are now contained to small outbreaks among the antivaxxers.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
That's extrapolation based on early death rates of already sick and elderly patients sent to die unprotected by governors of your Party.
Didn't happen in Sweden.
What a crock of convenient shit steingar is peddling.
I remember hospitals laying off nurses due to how few patients there were to treat and a hospital ship with 20 patients in any, where the disgraced governor claimed there were no respirators to go around, but the 8000 sent by PRESIDENT Trump were unused because there was no demand for them.
I also remember hospitals being monetarily incentivized to put patients on respirators to collect the payment (bribe) thus keeping the scamdemic narrative alive.
The. There were the pathetic sob stories told of patients on their COVID death beds wishing they got the jab.
It all combined into a great lie told to hijack the election by allowing crooks (democrat communists) to steal elections thru mail in balloting.
Every claim doctor quackenheimer steingar makes is a carefully worded lie.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 06, 2021, 04:43:20 PM
First, the efficacy of the vaccination is not waning at all. What is waning is peak antibody titer. If you were immunized against COVID you are still immune, and will be for years.Do try nd learn just a little immunology before you spout nonsense. The new Merk drug is a nucleotide analog called Molnupiravir. It is not an intestinal anti parasitic drug like Ivermectin, and works in a completely (and reasonably mechanistic) way. Molnupiravir is incorporated into viral genomes, but then lead to the insertion of incorrect ones in subsequent replications. This begins a mutagenic cascade that the virus cannot withstand. I really hope it works.
No vaccine can prevent viral infection. What they can do is make it harder for the virus to get hold and reduce the severity of the disease and the amount of time you stay diseased. If you are vaccinated and get COVID you will not be as sick as long. you will not transmit the virus as much as an unvaccinated person would. You'll have lower viral titers in your blood, you will not be as severely sick to spread them, and you won't be as sick for as long. If those around you are vaccinated the lower titers of virus will have that much more difficulty setting up infections, and these will be attenuated so long as the virus hits vaccinated people. That's how this works. And works it does. We've eliminated Smallpox and Polio from our populations. Thankfully other debilitating childhood diseases are now contained to small outbreaks among the antivaxxers.
But how can you say the jab will make one immune to COVID for years, then turn around and say “If you are vaccinated and get COVID?” You can get a milder case and have lower viral counts but you still have COVID, and can spread it. I’m supposed to risk thrombotic events and dozens of other reactions including death, so we can all have milder cases but the virus still romps around mutating who-knows-how in the spike-protein vaccinated, never, ever to weaken as it would in an unvaccinated population? Your Option 3 above is way better than that.
You “hope” the new Merck drug works? And how will we know, when profit outweighs actual research and transparency? Sign up for the trials, O Trusting One. But look up Maddie DaGaray first.
What’s the harm in taking an anti-parasite drug that is also anti-viral? Especially when it’s been in use for decades, won the Nobel Prize, and has zero side effects? We don’t need a new drug. You can say Ivermectin doesn’t work because you focus on the politicized studies. The non-politicized studies show fantastic effectiveness when used early, before the vital load drops and all you’re left with are symptoms and damage.
Why do you keep comparing COVID to smallpox and polio? Not only are the “vaccines” for COVID nothing at all like the smallpox and polio vaccines, the diseases themselves are distinctly different. We’ve been told over and over that COVID behaves like the flu or colds, neither of which really have been successfully vaxxed against. Even the flu vaccine has only a 20-30% success rate, and after this COVID debacle, many who might have gotten flu shots will think twice before doing so again.
By now, everyone knows COVID is awful. Everyone can decide how to deal with the threat of it without taking experimental injections whose long-term effects are not yet known, but whose short-term effects are becoming more known each day!!!
There are treatments for COVID, and protocols for reducing the chance of getting it. Instead of losing their livelihoods, health care workers who have seen COVID up close would rush out to get vaccinated if they hadn’t also seen the parade of cases of vaccine injuries.
Post by: Little Joe on October 06, 2021, 04:56:45 PM
I have NEVER been married to ANY of Pussy Galore's Flying Circus, but always had a thing for Honor Blackman and although quite older than me, did not return my calls! Neither did Diana Rigg (Emma Peel). The British chicks were the coolest. :DEven as a kid, I always wanted to see Emma "Peel".
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 07:45:00 PM
You can’t be this naive.
This doesn’t happen:
Appointed Department Head/Cabinet Member to Chief of Alphabet Department Data Collection: “Delete any data that calls into question Biden’s management of Covid!”
This does happen:
Appointed Department Head/Cabinet Member to Chief of Alphabet Department Data Collection: “Please provide the Secretary with a data analysis (charts and graphs) showing how many people died WITH Covid from 1/1/20 to 1/20/21, and how many people that died FROM Covid from 1/21/21 to date, and show which red states have the highest incidence of Covid cases and death, starting with Florida.”
The troll is an idiot.
Every day it seems, another whistleblower pulls the curtain aside and assholes like steingar and flynnee fall all over themselves to redirect the truth away by lying about the messenger, owns trashing the message.
Their devotion to big government and total control is sickening.
Post by: Mr Pou on October 07, 2021, 05:48:21 AM
You get a polio vaccine, and one does not get the polio virus
You get a Rubella, Measles, Pertussis, mumps vaccine, and you don't get these diseases
You get a Covid vaccine, and you maybe do or maybe don't get the disease, and it's maybe minor or maybe serious. WFT?
Post by: Little Joe on October 07, 2021, 06:01:46 AM
Steingar, my comment is simply this.Not exactly. For instance:
You get a polio vaccine, and one does not get the polio virus
You get a Rubella, Measles, Pertussis, mumps vaccine, and you don't get these diseases
You get a Covid vaccine, and you maybe do or maybe don't get the disease, and it's maybe minor or maybe serious. WFT?
Quote
One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html
Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
Quote
Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective.https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html
Post by: Mr Pou on October 07, 2021, 06:12:35 AM
Not exactly. For instance:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html
I see your percentages, but in practical terms, I've never know anyone in my entire life to contract these diseases, yet I know of plenty who have had the two vaccine Covid series yet contracted the virus. A vaccine this ineffective isn't a vaccine at all. And now you'll need boosters, boosters, and more boosters?
I did get the vaccine, but I now know I've been duped. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. More and more indicators point to this whole evolution as being a big pharma money grab of historic proportions.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 06:32:43 AM
I see your percentages, but in practical terms, I've never know anyone in my entire life to contract these diseases, yet I know of plenty who have had the two vaccine Covid series yet contracted the virus. A vaccine this ineffective isn't a vaccine at all. And now you'll need boosters, boosters, and more boosters?
I did get the vaccine, but I now know I've been duped. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. More and more indicators point to this whole evolution as being a big pharma money grab of historic proportions.
Exactly.
Heard from a former business associate a few days ago. She's just getting over covid, and she was double vaxed. And no it wasn't a "mild case". I know a few more that got covid after the double jab and they didn't fair as well as those I know who were unvaxed and got covid. The unvaxed ones had very mild symptoms.
Notice how natural immunity is now almost a crime to speak about? Big tech will censor people for discussing natural immunity. Pope Tony wants no mention of it.
Follow. The. Money.
Post by: Steingar on October 07, 2021, 06:34:10 AM
But how can you say the jab will make one immune to COVID for years, then turn around and say “If you are vaccinated and get COVID?”
There are cells in the immune system that can "remember" the antigen that initiated the immune response, and that can quickly be brought to bear if the pathogen strikes again.
You can get a milder case and have lower viral counts but you still have COVID, and can spread it.
That is exactly correct. However, the disease is reduced as is the spread. Probably the biggest thing is you don't go to the hospital and you don't die. I think there is some data suggesting the vaccine will prevent long haul symptoms and reduce the ones you have.
I’m supposed to risk thrombotic events and dozens of other reactions including death, so we can all have milder cases but the virus still romps around mutating who-knows-how in the spike-protein vaccinated, never, ever to weaken as it would in an unvaccinated population? Your Option 3 above is way better than that.
There isn't a shred of reputable evidence that the vaccines are wreaking the kind of havoc folks are claiming in this thread. Indeed the lack of any credible evidence and my own experience have convinced me that this is nothing more than a baseless conspiracy theory.
You “hope” the new Merck drug works? And how will we know, when profit outweighs actual research and transparency? Sign up for the trials, O Trusting One. But look up Maddie DaGaray first.
Remdesivir doesn't work despite having a good action mechanism. Molnupiravir has a good one as well (interestingly, both medications are nucleotide analogs, but they have different modes of action). I'll wait for the data to see whether it works or not. Data is either liberal or conservative, and it is always right.
What’s the harm in taking an anti-parasite drug that is also anti-viral? Especially when it’s been in use for decades, won the Nobel Prize, and has zero side effects? We don’t need a new drug. You can say Ivermectin doesn’t work because you focus on the politicized studies. The non-politicized studies show fantastic effectiveness when used early, before the vital load drops and all you’re left with are symptoms and damage.
Ivermectin can be quite dangerous, especially when taken when not under the supervision of a medical professional. The only studies I could find in decent journals all said the stuff doesn't work. There were papers in the Italian journal of clinical bullshit and stuff like that that had really small trials that amounted to little more than anecdotes claiming the stuff worked. Clinical journals mostly suck and I don't trust them. I do trust the metastudiues published in the better journals, because at least they have the numbers to make solid conclusions. Moreover, there is no earthly reason to think it would work. Ivermectin kills intestinal parasites and has no antiviral activity to speak of. Tthe mechanisms I've read of its action would suggest that NSAIDs would be effective against COVID, which they aren't at all.
Why do you keep comparing COVID to smallpox and polio? Not only are the “vaccines” for COVID nothing at all like the smallpox and polio vaccines, the diseases themselves are distinctly different. We’ve been told over and over that COVID behaves like the flu or colds, neither of which really have been successfully vaxxed against. Even the flu vaccine has only a 20-30% success rate, and after this COVID debacle, many who might have gotten flu shots will think twice before doing so again.
There are vaccines against pneumonia, pertussis (whooping cough) and TB. The influenza vaccines are not as effective as we would like because it is very hard to know what strains will show up every winter. The vaccine makers take their best guess. Sometimes they're right, sometimes not. This year will be a real head scratcher, since influenza hasn't been a factor for the last couple years. Flu is very, very different from COVID. While both influenza and COVID have RNA genomes, influenza has multiple chromosomes. That allows visions to mix and match chromosomes, this recombination increases the number of potential flu strains and make the virus very difficult to predict. COVID can't do this at all, the various COVID strains come from mutation.
By now, everyone knows COVID is awful. Everyone can decide how to deal with the threat of it without taking experimental injections whose long-term effects are not yet known, but whose short-term effects are becoming more known each day!!!
I can only relate my experience, that everyone I know, everyone I teach, and everyone I work with are all vaccinated with no ill effects beyond a fever after the second shot. I asked my brother, and he hadn't heard about any ill effects from the vaccine. I'm going to start asking more folks. I'm starting to think this vaccine thing is made up from whoel cloth and that Luciferase is lying through his teeth.
There are treatments for COVID, and protocols for reducing the chance of getting it. Instead of losing their livelihoods, health care workers who have seen COVID up close would rush out to get vaccinated if they hadn’t also seen the parade of cases of vaccine injuries.Right now the only treatment I know of is steroids to reduce the cytokine storm that accompanies a bad COVID infection. Folks are still dying of this. It's dangerous. In the meantime the vaccines are all perfectly safe. Put another way, how many people do YOU know who have been damaged by the vaccine? I know personally two long haul COVID sufferers, though truly I don't know very many people who had the bug. Most of my associates masked and stayed away from folks while the viruses moving through the population. Only a few got it. I don't know of anyone who has been injured by the vaccines. Not. one. single. person.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 07, 2021, 06:37:09 AM
I see your percentages, but in practical terms, I've never know anyone in my entire life to contract these diseases, yet I know of plenty who have had the two vaccine Covid series yet contracted the virus. A vaccine this ineffective isn't a vaccine at all. And now you'll need boosters, boosters, and more boosters?
I did get the vaccine, but I now know I've been duped. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. More and more indicators point to this whole evolution as being a big pharma money grab of historic proportions.
in practical terms, please don't overlook the exposure. Today far more people have covid-19 than have measles, mumps, etc. (note that I'm not saying everyone has it -just consider the number of active cases of covid vs the number of active cases of the measles).
Consider the influenza vaccine - in a typical year, there are 40 to 60 million cases of the flu in the USA. How many vaccinated people still contracted the flu? And you "need" the flu shot every year.
Having said all that, I absolutely support your right to not be vaccinated. I'm just reacting to your stated reasoning, which I believe to be flawed.
Post by: Mr Pou on October 07, 2021, 06:57:15 AM
in practical terms, please don't overlook the exposure. Today far more people have covid-19 than have measles, mumps, etc. (note that I'm not saying everyone has it -just consider the number of active cases of covid vs the number of active cases of the measles).
The measles et al vaccines quickly eradicated those diseases while the Covid vaccine has eradicated nothing.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 06:59:36 AM
The measles et al vaccines quickly eradicated those diseases while the Covid vaccine has eradicated nothing.
But the covid vaccines do offer full immunity.............
for the government and the manufacturer from any and all liability.
Let that sink in for a few.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 07, 2021, 07:14:34 AM
The measles et al vaccines quickly eradicated those diseases while the Covid vaccine has eradicated nothing.
a couple of points:
first: eradicate: destroy completely; put an end to
How many human viruses have been completely eliminated? The only one I know is smallpox.
That's it. One.
Second: How impatient are people? driving down the incidence of measles, etc took time. Without a doubt, reduction in measles outbreaks didn't happen in a few months after the introduction of the vaccine(s). It'll take time to move past this covid-19 pandemic. I'm reminded of a commercial from years ago, an *ahem* overweight man steps on a scale, then spends a few seconds on a treadmill, then gets back on the scale and is exasperated that he didn't lose any weight.
Post by: Rush on October 07, 2021, 07:27:31 AM
https://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/cdc-admits-finacial-hospital-incentives-drove-up-covid-19-death-rates
There have been credible doctors who assert that in some cases, using a ventilator leads to a worse outcome. Specifically those cases where the person has a blood ox of, say, high 80s, yet is still conscious and oriented. These doctors found that treating with prone position can be sufficient. Yet some hospitals still insist on sedating and putting such a patient on a ventilator.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8435443/
So I can’t buy what Steingar says with respect to numbers even though he is right about virology, how vaccines work, and other scientific details.
Likewise those of you asserting high numbers of vaccine injuries and deaths have not presented evidence that most of these weren’t coincidental in time. Yes there certainly are some directly caused deaths. Allergic reaction to some ingredient in the vaccine is known to be one. Probably the thrombocytopenia and the pericarditis are directly related to the vaccine. But if someone gets vaccinated and then dies 2 weeks later from some other natural cause, it sound like these sources are claiming the vaccine caused it, without any real evidence.
It seems to me that those manipulating the data on both sides are fueling division, rather than trying to get at the truth. It’s just as wrong to say someone died of the vaccine because it was coincident in time as it is to say someone died of covid because it was coincident in time. Yet both sides accuse the other of doing that while denying they’re doing it.
Post by: Little Joe on October 07, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
I see your percentages, but in practical terms, I've never know anyone in my entire life to contract these diseases, yet I know of plenty who have had the two vaccine Covid series yet contracted the virus.Perhaps because so many people did NOT get the Covid vaccine. Those other vaccines had much higher participation rates. Almost everyone gets those other vaccines.
Post by: Steingar on October 07, 2021, 07:47:49 AM
I think both sides here have a lot of valid points. I also think both sides are making the mistake of relying on their respective sources of data. Steingar, if memory serves, has said 700,000 have died of covid, but I haven’t heard him address the very real question of dying of vs dying with, nor the very real problem of profit motive in reporting cases, and deciding whether to put someone on a ventilator.
You raise a good point. I have a counter, I know a couple MDs who claim that folks who clearly died of COVID were marked down as dying from "respiratory failure". Now that is factually correct, but misleading. Moreover, perhaps dying "with COVID" is still important, since COVID could easily exacerbate preexisting medical conditions that, in addition to COVID, killed the patient. I agree that someone with a mild case of COVID who keels over from a heart attack shouldn't be included in the COVID deaths. But how many of what will likely never be known, the data is corrupted at the source by folks pushing a narrative both ways. I still suspect whatever the actual numbers that COVID has cut a wide swath through our population. Everyone I know who's had the bug got completely wiped out for a couple weeks, including a number of students.
I do have a question for the group. As I've said, I know exactly no one who's suffered any harm from the vaccines. What about you all? Luciferase says everyone he knows suffered vaccine harm. He says his doctor now specializes in vaccine harm. What about you all?
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 07:54:49 AM
I do have a question for the group. As I've said, I know exactly no one who's suffered any harm from the vaccines. What about you all? Luciferase says everyone he knows suffered vaccine harm. He says his doctor now specializes in vaccine harm. What about you all?
Please go back and direct quote me where I stated "everyone I know" has suffered vaccine harm.
I'll wait.
Post by: Rush on October 07, 2021, 08:30:27 AM
My husband's 90 year old aunt, had the runs for a week, felt kind of fatigued after that.
My next door neighbor, sick as a dog for 3 weeks. Her husband and daughter both only mildly ill for one week.
My mother's cousins all in their late 80s or 90s, 3 of them supposedly all died of covid but one had just had hip replacement surgery and didn't recover well post op. That might be what really killed her, I never heard if she tested positive for covid.
My husband's coworker's wife tested positive but had no symptoms.
That's all the people I've personally met. In addition, I know of half dozen neighbors who got it, one died, another had an ex that doesn't live here die. My husband's boss's family live in Detroit, had a party and all eight got it but all recovered.
I think that's it.
The vaccine? Lots of people I know got jabbed and the only side effects I've heard them say is sore arm, fever for one day, and one person felt flu-like for several days but recovered.
I'm not saying any of this means anything, it's all anecdotal.
Post by: Mr Pou on October 07, 2021, 08:37:00 AM
My biggest disappointment was later finding out the relative ineffectiveness of the vaccine. Live and learn, never again, etc.
Post by: Username on October 07, 2021, 08:39:50 AM
My biggest disappointment was later finding out the relative ineffectiveness of the vaccine. Live and learn, never again, etc.My 5G reception still sucks but I'm sure the tracking chip is working just fine.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 08:40:05 AM
But I do know both the government and the manufacturers have given themselves complete immunity from any and all liability. Ask yourself why?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 07, 2021, 08:40:25 AM
I know of no one who had anything more than a sore arm and a little fatigue WRT/vaccines. Personally I had a little bit of a sore arm and a little fatigue from the first shot, but really a nothingburger. That is of course not to discount those who had real issues with the vaccines.
My biggest disappointment was later finding out the relative ineffectiveness of the vaccine. Live and learn, never again, etc.
I know a couple of people that got wiped out for a couple of days after they got jabbed.
Post by: Rush on October 07, 2021, 08:50:46 AM
The problem is, what happens 2 to 5 years from now for those vaccinated? Will their be things that crop up? Dunno.
But I do know both the government and the manufacturers have given themselves complete immunity from any and all liability. Ask yourself why?
This is one thing I’m concerned about. We really know nothing about long term effects or effects on the unborn. I suspect it’s safe in the long run but we have zero evidence of that.
What concerns me a lot more than this particular vaccine or any one vaccine, is simply that we are vaccinating ourselves so much against so many diseases that it makes me wonder if we are weakening our naturally acquired immunity or having other effects.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 09:02:31 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 09:06:52 AM
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5812.0;attach=2240;image)
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 07, 2021, 09:08:56 AM
I do have a question for the group. As I've said, I know exactly no one who's suffered any harm from the vaccines. What about you all? Luciferase says everyone he knows suffered vaccine harm. He says his doctor now specializes in vaccine harm. What about you all?
Since you asked:
I have a strong suspicion that I got permanent tinnitus from the vaccine. Onset was within a week of the second dose. On researching it, it appears I am not alone. One article of many: https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272 (https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272)
Three months later I got the first shot of the Shingrix vaccine. I belatedly researched its side effects and discovered that tinnitus is a rare side effect of that vaccine. I am now hesitant to get the second Shingrix shot - is the worst of the damage done or would it make the tinnitus worse? My case is mild in that I only notice it in quiet settings and fortunately doesn’t interfere with sleep. I would be seriously pissed if it was made worse. I checked and the maker of Shingrix never published the effectiveness of a single dose of their vaccine. What would you do in may case?
Post by: Steingar on October 07, 2021, 09:10:21 AM
This is one thing I’m concerned about. We really know nothing about long term effects or effects on the unborn. I suspect it’s safe in the long run but we have zero evidence of that.
I actually saw some data on this not that long ago. What I recall was that it was preliminary, but positive. Moreover, were there a rash of miscarriages or monsters, I have no doubt that we'd have heard about it by now.
What concerns me a lot more than this particular vaccine or any one vaccine, is simply that we are vaccinating ourselves so much against so many diseases that it makes me wonder if we are weakening our naturally acquired immunity or having other effects.
Your immune system is equipped to react to visually everything in the universe. I'm not even exaggerating, the vertebrate immune system is a marvel. More importantly, at what point in the future do you think you're going to come across another potentially lethal respiratory disease?
Post by: Steingar on October 07, 2021, 09:14:58 AM
Since you asked:
I have a strong suspicion that I got permanent tinnitus from the vaccine. Onset was within a week of the second dose. On researching it, it appears I am not alone. One article of many: https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272 (https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272)
Three months later I got the first shot of the Shingrix vaccine. I belatedly researched its side effects and discovered that tinnitus is a rare side effect of that vaccine. I am now hesitant to get the second Shingrix shot - is the worst of the damage done or would it make the tinnitus worse? My case is mild in that I only notice it in quiet settings and fortunately doesn’t interfere with sleep. I would be seriously pissed if it was made worse. I checked and the maker of Shingrix never published the effectiveness of a single dose of their vaccine. What would you do in may case?
I am so sorry to hear this. I really hope goes away. Don't know what to tell you vis a vis the shingles vaccine. That sucker knocked me out for a whole weekend. Then again, a colleague got shingles in her face. Lost her eye, and half her face was paralyzed. I'll take the vaccine.
You should definitely talk to your doctor about the tinnitus and the vaccination. I hope you get all better.
Post by: Rush on October 07, 2021, 09:27:50 AM
Since you asked:
I have a strong suspicion that I got permanent tinnitus from the vaccine. Onset was within a week of the second dose. On researching it, it appears I am not alone. One article of many: https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272 (https://www.verywellhealth.com/tinnitus-covid-vaccine-side-effect-5184272)
Three months later I got the first shot of the Shingrix vaccine. I belatedly researched its side effects and discovered that tinnitus is a rare side effect of that vaccine. I am now hesitant to get the second Shingrix shot - is the worst of the damage done or would it make the tinnitus worse? My case is mild in that I only notice it in quiet settings and fortunately doesn’t interfere with sleep. I would be seriously pissed if it was made worse. I checked and the maker of Shingrix never published the effectiveness of a single dose of their vaccine. What would you do in may case?
Covid the disease can cause it too.
Quote
Texas Roadhouse CEO dies by suicide while battling ‘unbearable’ post-covid-19 symptoms, family says
Tim ElfrinkMarch 22, 2021 at 3:30 a.m. EDT
Kent Taylor, CEO of the Texas Roadhouse restaurant chain, died by suicide while battling the aftereffects of covid-19, his family said. (Texas Roadhouse)
After surviving a bout with covid-19, Texas Roadhouse CEO Kent Taylor’s post-infection symptoms grew increasingly painful. Taylor was beset in particular with a severe case of tinnitus — a loud buzzing or ringing in the ears that can be debilitating.
Last week, amid an escalating fight with the conditions, Taylor, 65, died by suicide, his family said. His body was found on Thursday in a field on property he owned outside Louisville, the Courier-Journal reported.
“After a battle with post-Covid related symptoms, including severe tinnitus, Kent Taylor took his own life this week,” his family said in a statement shared with The Washington Post. “Kent battled and fought hard like the former track champion that he was, but the suffering that greatly intensified in recent days became unbearable.”
Taylor’s death highlights the struggle of some covid-19 patients to manage “long haul” symptoms that are still barely understood by doctors, as well as growing concerns that suicide risks have risen as pandemic-related depression and anxiety spike across the United States.
Some people experience “long covid” months after their battle with covid-19. While cures remain unknown, there are some practical steps you can take. (Allie Caren/The Washington Post)
For months, he helped his son keep suicidal thoughts at bay. Then came the pandemic.
His company celebrated him as the hands-on founder of a chain that now counts more than 600 locations, noting that as the pandemic wreaked havoc with the restaurant industry last year, he gave up his base salary and a nearly $1 million bonus and donated another $5 million to “help support his frontline workers.”
“This selfless act was no surprise to anyone who knew Kent and his strong belief in servant leadership,” Greg Moore, the chain’s lead director, said in a statement referring to Taylor’s donation. “He was without a doubt, a people-first leader. His entrepreneurial spirit will live on in the company he built, the projects he supported and the lives he touched.”
Born on Sept. 25, 1955 in Missouri, Taylor was raised in Louisville, where his mother worked for a boutique and his father was employed by General Electric, the New York Times reported. A gifted distance runner, Taylor won a track scholarship to the University of North Carolina before striking out in the restaurant business.
For years, he failed spectacularly to win over investors with his ideas, he told the Courier-Journal in 2003. He once pretended to have a Christmas present delivery to see the founder of Rally’s and sprinted after NBA star Larry Bird in an airport to pitch them on plans, which both rejected.
“I think you have a better, more open mind when you fail,” he told the newspaper. “Too much success in the beginning makes you fall a lot harder later on when things don’t go so well.”
He drew up a concept for the Texas Roadhouse chain on a cocktail napkin, he said — but once again, he hit a brick wall, with at least 45 investors turning him down before he finally won over a local cardiologist in 1993. Three of his five first Texas Roadhouse restaurants failed, and he soon piled up debt and sold off other restaurants to keep the chain afloat.
After tinkering with the menu and locations, though, Texas Roadhouse grew exponentially. When the company went public in 2004, Taylor made $60 million and kept millions more in stock, according to the Courier-Journal.
It’s not clear when Taylor contracted covid-19, but his family said that he suffered increasingly dire symptoms in the wake of the virus, noting in particular his struggles with tinnitus. There is evidence that covid-19 can worsen the syndrome — a study published in November in the peer-reviewed journal Frontiers in Public Health reported that 40 percent of those with the condition reported that it grew more severe after having the coronavirus.
Thanks to outmoded and delayed reporting systems, it will be years before public health experts can conclusively say whether suicide rates have risen in the United States during the pandemic, The Post’s William Wan reported. But federal surveys show roughly 40 percent of Americans have reported grappling with mental health or substance abuse issues since the pandemic began.
Taylor was mourned by Kentucky leaders as a visionary businessman.
“He was a maverick entrepreneur who embodied the values of never giving up and putting others first,” tweeted Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer (D).
Catch up on the most important developments in the pandemic with our coronavirus newsletter. All stories in it are free to access.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) lauded Taylor’s decision to give up his salary last year, telling the Courier-Journal that “like always, he put his people first. He dug deep into his own pockets and covered healthcare and bonuses for thousands all while keeping his stores open to make sure workers got paychecks when they needed them most.”
Taylor found one last charitable outlet in recent weeks, his family said: a pledge to pay for a clinical study for military members who also suffer from tinnitus.
“In true Kent fashion,” his family said, “he always found a silver lining to help others.”
In the United States, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline can be reached at 1-800-273-8255 or over chat.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/22/texas-roadhouse-kent-taylor-suicide/
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 07, 2021, 09:42:18 AM
Covid the disease can cause it too.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/22/texas-roadhouse-kent-taylor-suicide/
Yeah, Randy (EppyGA) mentioned the Roadhouse CEO case a while back. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 09:49:22 AM
(https://citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/anti-vaxxer.jpg)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 07, 2021, 09:58:15 AM
Post by: Rush on October 07, 2021, 10:22:06 AM
Yeah, Randy (EppyGA) mentioned the Roadhouse CEO case a while back. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Whoops I missed that. Or more likely forgot. My mind is a steel sieve these days.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 07, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
The problem is, what happens 2 to 5 years from now for those vaccinated? Will their be things that crop up? Dunno.Morgan & Morgan - For The People ::)
But I do know both the government and the manufacturers have given themselves complete immunity from any and all liability. Ask yourself why?
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 07, 2021, 11:08:53 AM
Whoops I missed that. Or more likely forgot. My mind is a steel sieve these days.
Was probably brought up on purpleboard.net, not this forum. So no fault of your memory - at least not in this case. ;)
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 01:36:19 PM
And Biden has the benefit of the vaccines. Plus, if anyone remembers the Biden campaign ads, it was constantly repeated that Biden had a plan to end the pandemic while supposedly Trump did not.
Post by: nddons on October 07, 2021, 02:15:08 PM
If we take the CDC numbers at face value, more people have died of Covid under Biden than Trump.Pfffft. Biden voters have LONG forgotten about such things. There’s something much more important in their lives, like when Starbucks will come out with their pumpkin spice douche water or something.
And Biden has the benefit of the vaccines. Plus, if anyone remembers the Biden campaign ads, it was constantly repeated that Biden had a plan to end the pandemic while supposedly Trump did not.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 02:41:19 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 05:32:53 PM
Quote
Three billionaires with stakes in Moderna - co-founders Noubar Afeyan and Robert Langer, and investor Timothy Springer - made it onto Forbes' list of the 400 richest Americans this year after their company put out one of three FDA-approved COVID vaccines.
Each of the men is worth over $3.5billion, and they were added to Forbes' list on Tuesday based on SEC documents, stock prices from September and other financial records.
Since Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration, 152 million doses have been administered. The company was the first to test the vaccine on human subjects, further boosting its stock value.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 07, 2021, 06:23:38 PM
If we take the CDC numbers at face value, more people have died of Covid under Biden than Trump.When I looked at the CDC site earlier today there were 440,350 Deaths up to 1/20/2021 and we're now at 698,672. Are using common core?
And Biden has the benefit of the vaccines. Plus, if anyone remembers the Biden campaign ads, it was constantly repeated that Biden had a plan to end the pandemic while supposedly Trump did not.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
When I looked at the CDC site earlier today there were 440,350 Deaths up to 1/20/2021 and we're now at 698,672. Are using common core?
I should have said Johns Hopkins.
https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/johns-hopkins-data-more-people-in-u-s-have-died-so-far-this-year-from/article_6d6e5fe7-bd67-5ba9-b551-f6eb522892bd.html
Quote
NEW YORK — COVID-19 has already killed more people in the United States this year than it did in 2020.
Since Jan. 1, more than 353,000 deaths have been reported from COVID-19, about a thousand more than last year’s 352,000 for the first 10 months of the pandemic, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.
There are key differences between the two years that could account for some of the shift, medical experts said.
Post by: Number7 on October 07, 2021, 07:14:50 PM
The scamdemic as reported by the CDC is all bullshit, carefully crafted to set a narrative, just like the bullshit mmgw scam.
However.... if more people have already died from the scamdemic this year than last, then the scam vaccines are really useless. Math is so hard and racist for liberals that one of them will be along to explain how none of the science that disagrees with the narrative is true... just because, of course.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 07, 2021, 07:20:14 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 07:27:20 PM
The problem with these numbers is, it will give the left more reason to want to lock down again, make us look like Australia. "We have tried to get you people to get vaccinated and wear masks but you wont' and the number of deaths just keep rising so we're going to have to lock down again"
This is the reason for all the obfuscation of the data.
“Figures lie and liars figure”
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 07, 2021, 07:51:50 PM
We don’t really have the data to prove this one way or another at this point unfortunately.
Post by: Rush on October 08, 2021, 03:36:18 AM
One hypothesis about the course of this pandemic is that actually all the interventions have done very little to nothing to affect it. Most pandemics last a season or two and most respiratory viruses become more contagious and less dangerous as they evolve over time. They also typically follow a seasonal pattern. The vaccines likely reduce the frequency of very bad outcomes, but may not do much to really reduce the spread of less lethal variants.
We don’t really have the data to prove this one way or another at this point unfortunately.
Or possibly made it worse. Keeping people inside not getting sun, and keeping them at home unexposed to the variety of pathogens they are normally exposed to weakens their immune system. It certainly hurt the economy, there’s no question about that.
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 05:23:05 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 05:24:50 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 05:26:25 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 05:31:25 AM
Post by: nddons on October 08, 2021, 07:48:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/T1Obmzj.jpg)We can thank global warming, Covid, and the US government interference in science for the broad lack of trust in scientists these days.