PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on February 25, 2021, 07:41:01 AM
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I would really like to know how many of those 1/2 million people would be dead today anyway if there was no COVID. Quite a few I suspect.
And I wonder how many other people died that wouldn't have if it weren't for COVID. Depression suicide, avoidance of medicare due to the COVID scare mongering have surely taken lives unnecessarily.
The best thing about all those COVID precautions is that the flu pretty much disappeared this past year.
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No one can be sure because of all the dubious methods that were used to count "covid deaths".
It's been highly exaggerated for political purposes. From what I've read is the actual number is less that 10% of what's been claimed, IOW no more deadly than the flu.
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The best thing about all those COVID precautions is that the flu pretty much disappeared this past year.
nah, even better is the social distancing - being a (retired) engineer, I'm happy with people not trying to give me a hug.
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nah, even better is the social distancing - being a (retired) engineer, I'm happy with people not trying to give me a hug.
Didn't realize Engineering outlawed physical contact. How do they reproduce? Test Tube Babies? Clones? Root Cause Analysis?
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And now we're being told that annual flu death stats have been exaggerated by 10x for years as a means to inoculate people.
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Didn't realize Engineering outlawed physical contact. How do they reproduce? Test Tube Babies? Clones? Root Cause Analysis?
My husband and I are both engineers. We pretty much eschew physical contact of any kind with any living thing. That goes double for emotional contact. Yet we managed to reproduce - twice. Go figure.
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I would really like to know how many of those 1/2 million people would be dead today anyway if there was no COVID. Quite a few I suspect.
And I wonder how many other people died that wouldn't have if it weren't for COVID. Depression suicide, avoidance of medicare due to the COVID scare mongering have surely taken lives unnecessarily.
The best thing about all those COVID precautions is that the flu pretty much disappeared this past year.
Do you
(1) Not believe the total deaths by all causes that the CDC publishes, or
(2) are unaware that these stats are being collected?
The point being, by simply counting the number of deaths irrespective of cause, the number of people who died above what would be expected in a typical year is easily determined.
In 2020 there were 3,356,442 deaths from all causes.[1] That is 17.6% higher than the 2,854,838 that died in 2019.[2] Natural population growth, including immigration, is about 0.5% per year.[3] So assume the death rate is only 17% higher - that yields 485,322 excess deaths in just 2020. Agree that some are extra suicides (normally around 48,000 per year[4]) and some are due to needlessly delayed medical care. But the remaining number of deaths appear consistent with number reported to have died due to Covid-19.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm)
[2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm)
[3] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/12/new-estimates-show-us-population-growth-continues-to-slow.html (https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/12/new-estimates-show-us-population-growth-continues-to-slow.html)
[4] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml (https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml)
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I have trouble not seeing the logic of this report, on the way back machine, because it’s been scrubbed from the net as “false misinformation”.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126223119/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19
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I have trouble not seeing the logic of this report, on the way back machine, because it’s been scrubbed from the net as “false misinformation”.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126223119/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19
Facts that don't fit the narrative must be eliminated. Those who publish those facts must be re-educated.
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Do you
(1) Not believe the total deaths by all causes that the CDC publishes, or
(2) are unaware that these stats are being collected?
The point being, by simply counting the number of deaths irrespective of cause, the number of people who died above what would be expected in a typical year is easily determined.
In 2020 there were 3,356,442 deaths from all causes.[1] That is 17.6% higher than the 2,854,838 that died in 2019.[2] Natural population growth, including immigration, is about 0.5% per year.[3] So assume the death rate is only 17% higher - that yields 485,322 excess deaths in just 2020. Agree that some are extra suicides (normally around 48,000 per year[4]) and some are due to needlessly delayed medical care. But the remaining number of deaths appear consistent with number reported to have died due to Covid-19.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm)
[2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm)
[3] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/12/new-estimates-show-us-population-growth-continues-to-slow.html (https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/12/new-estimates-show-us-population-growth-continues-to-slow.html)
[4] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml (https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml)
I don’t. I can’t.
When this thing became politicized by the democrats, all rational thought or trust in the government ended for any rational person.
Same when it came to climate change.
Same when it came to medical insurance.
Same when it came to protecting our borders.
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It takes a VERY shallow mind to even pretend to believe the government statistics about much of anything because all reporting changed from fact based to politically based while Nixon was President and gotten worse ever since,
If anyone is quoting government statistics as backup for an opinion, I really have to feel sorry for them.
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I would really like to know how many of those 1/2 million people would be dead today anyway if there was no COVID. Quite a few I suspect.
Hard to see visually, but the downloaded data says that it depends on how you look at it.
I think the answer is around 368k more people died than expected in 2020, which takes into account the months when fewer people died. But that 368k died from all kinds of additional causes of death, including things like suicide and drug overdoses, both of which are up.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5374.0;attach=1860)
Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
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My husband and I are both engineers. We pretty much eschew physical contact of any kind with any living thing. That goes double for emotional contact. Yet we managed to reproduce - twice. Go figure.
Ahh, Cellular Mitosis. Got it.
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Hard to see visually, but the downloaded data says that it depends on how you look at it.
I think the answer is around 368k more people died than expected in 2020, which takes into account the months when fewer people died. But that 368k died from all kinds of additional causes of death, including things like suicide and drug overdoses, both of which are up.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5374.0;attach=1860)
Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Notice the bump around Jan 2018.
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Notice the bump around Jan 2018.
Refresh my memory. What happened around Jan 2018?
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Refresh my memory. What happened around Jan 2018?
I really don't know. It could have been a particularly bad influenza epidemic that time....
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It was a bad flu season. Roughly 61,000 died, but they had a vaccine.
If I recall, I was traveling for work that whole winter and I didn't catch a thing. But I had my shot.
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It was a bad flu season. Roughly 61,000 died, but they had a vaccine.
If I recall, I was traveling for work that whole winter and I didn't catch a thing. But I had my shot.
That was when I got the flu, Jan 2018. Worst flu I've ever had.
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I have trouble not seeing the logic of this report, on the way back machine, because it’s been scrubbed from the net as “false misinformation”.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126223119/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19
Nothing she claimed is inconsistent with an increase in mortality due to Covid-19. Consider:
(1) The article claims “Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same.” But all that observation establishes is that the excess mortality is a function proportional to existing mortality per age group. Interesting observatiom, but it is a non sequitur with respect to excess mortality.
For example, suppose you start with a young age group of 100 people and 1 dies per year while an older group of 100 die at a rate of 4 per year. So 20% of deaths occur in the young group and 80% occur in the older group. A disease comes along and now 4 of the young group die per year and 16 of the older group. The death rate has quadrupled but the percentages are still 20% and 80% for each group.
(2) The article also claims “Briand also noted that 50,000 to 70,000 deaths are seen both before and after COVID-19, indicating that this number of deaths was normal long before COVID-19 emerged. Therefore, according to Briand, not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.” This claim is false. The average has been 55,000 +/- 5000. Even at the worst of the January 2018 flu season the death rate spiked to 67,000. Also, the “after” part of her “before and after” claim was premature.
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It takes a VERY shallow mind to even pretend to believe the government statistics about much of anything because all reporting changed from fact based to politically based while Nixon was President and gotten worse ever since,
If anyone is quoting government statistics as backup for an opinion, I really have to feel sorry for them.
It’s a global conspiracy then - phony stats from countries around the world, even from red states in the U.S.!
There is no reason to trash talk the stats. My own view is that it better to argue that the presumption of innocence and basic norms of justice and individual freedom of choice should be adhered to regardless of circumstances. Those who argue over whether a particular disease is bad enough to discard those norms are pulling conditions and thresholds from thin air. You can’t win the argument for your individual freedoms if you adopt the assumption of the authoritarians that some threshold of disease badness exists at which those freedoms and presumption of innocence can be terminated. The threshold conditions will always be pushed in a way favorable to the authoritarians.
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It’s a global conspiracy then - phony stats from countries around the world, even from red states in the U.S.!
There is no reason to trash talk the stats. My own view is that it better to argue that the presumption of innocence and basic norms of justice and individual freedom of choice should be adhered to regardless of circumstances. Those who argue over whether a particular disease is bad enough to discard those norms are pulling conditions and thresholds from thin air. You can’t win the argument for your individual freedoms if you adopt the assumption of the authoritarians that some threshold of disease badness exists at which those freedoms and presumption of innocence can be terminated. The threshold conditions will always be pushed in a way favorable to the authoritarians.
Yep.... and ALL those people who didn't die of heart attacks, strokes, etc...etc... were just part of a massive abnormally unusual season of wuhan virus deaths.
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Just trying to think it out...
Logically, if everyone else is doing something “in secret”, can it be secret and can it be a conspiracy?
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Just trying to think it out...
Logically, if everyone else is doing something “in secret”, can it be secret and can it be a conspiracy?
I think if there is a financial or political incentive to have a death be deemed a Covid death vs a non-Covid death, then the numerous stories of people dying “with” Covid being classified as someone dying “from” Covid starts to make a little more sense.
What doesn’t make sense is that the US has the highest rate of Covid deaths than most other countries. (Granted I haven’t looked for stats in months.) it’s almost as if some people WANTED to log a high number of deaths due to Covid during 2020.
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I think if there is a financial or political incentive to have a death be deemed a Covid death vs a non-Covid death, then the numerous stories of people dying “with” Covid being classified as someone dying “from” Covid starts to make a little more sense.
What doesn’t make sense is that the US has the highest rate of Covid deaths than most other countries. (Granted I haven’t looked for stats in months.) it’s almost as if some people WANTED to log a high number of deaths due to Covid during 2020.
Very old, very sick (of other ailments) died WITH Covid, not FROM Covid.
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Very old, very sick (of other ailments) died WITH Covid, not FROM Covid.
Dr Birk, during the NYC disaster early last year, spoke publicly about recording any death "with Covid" as "from Covid". I heard it with my own ears.