PILOT SPIN
Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on November 19, 2021, 08:37:19 AM
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I watched this video thinking there are several controversial things that could be discussed and that maybe this should posted in SZ, but alas considering that it starts with an interest in aviation, decided to post it here to share it.
There's some discussion about human weakness/fallibility, possibly skewing national interests, potential for a sub-story about sexism and finally some reality that we are still plagued by the problem today with the author saying that 6% of American GA accidents have a shared root cause (not going to spoil it).
It's 27mins in length, but worth speeding up a bit to watch the whole thing as it's replete with diagrams and citations.
Enjoy.
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Fascinating. But what controversial things? I didn’t see any sexism. Seems to me it was that one guy’s possibly subconscious prejudice against a mechanical system. He suffered from being stuck in a paradigm. What am I missing?
Anyway, very fun video and amazing history. Digging up all those documents to figure out what happened.
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I'll get around to watching this when all the in-laws leave.
But for some reason, it makes me think of one of the biggest secrets that helped the Allies win the air war.
LOP.
Our planes could fly further than their planes with the same fuel because they learned to fly LOP. This also helped our engines last longer, which obviously helped with maintenance and down time. I might be able to find a link to that story later.
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I'll get around to watching this when all the in-laws leave.
But for some reason, it makes me think of one of the biggest secrets that helped the Allies win the air war.
LOP.
Our planes could fly further than their planes with the same fuel because they learned to fly LOP. This also helped our engines last longer, which obviously helped with maintenance and down time. I might be able to find a link to that story later.
What engine do you have in your Bo, Joe? I just received the Lew Gage book from the American Bonanza Society. Sounds like a lot of V-tail Bo’s still fly with the same Continental E-225 I have in my Navion. I understand Lew Gage is the real expert in these engines.
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I'll get around to watching this when all the in-laws leave.
But for some reason, it makes me think of one of the biggest secrets that helped the Allies win the air war.
LOP.
Our planes could fly further than their planes with the same fuel because they learned to fly LOP. This also helped our engines last longer, which obviously helped with maintenance and down time. I might be able to find a link to that story later.
Was this the technique Lindbergh introduced in the Pacific theater?
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Was this the technique Lindbergh introduced in the Pacific theater?
Yes. In P-38s and he flew combat missions with them to prove it worked until FDR found out and put a stop to it.
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Yes. In P-38s and he flew combat missions with them to prove it worked until FDR found out and put a stop to it.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, A&P-IA, POTUS. Smh
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Yes. In P-38s and he flew combat missions with them to prove it worked until FDR found out and put a stop to it.
Seriously? Wtf? Why?
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Seriously? Wtf? Why?
FDR regime was concerned what it would look like if Lindberg was shot down or killed.
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FDR regime was concerned what it would look like if Lindberg was shot down or killed.
Exactly. FDR, to his defense, and I don't like him in general, didn't want to give the Japanese the propaganda of them shooting down the greatest hero of modern times. However, he did prove his LOP theory and they used it.
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FDR regime was concerned what it would look like if Lindberg was shot down or killed.
Oh! FDR stopped Lindberg. I thought he meant FDR banned flying LOP. LOL! Nevermind.
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Was this the technique Lindbergh introduced in the Pacific theater?
I believe that is correct.
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Very interesting video. What sort of engines was Lindberg teaching LOP operation for in the Pacific?
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Very interesting video. What sort of engines was Lindberg teaching LOP operation for in the Pacific?
On the P38.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning
Charles Lindbergh
Charles Lindbergh became famous for his transatlantic solo flight before the war. By WWII he was a civilian working for Vought in the South Pacific area. He received preferential treatment as if a visiting colonel. In Hollandia, Lindbergh attached himself to the 475th Fighter Group which was flying P-38s. Although new to the aircraft, Lindbergh was instrumental in extending the range of the P-38 through improved throttle settings, or engine-leaning techniques, notably by reducing engine speed to 1,600 rpm, setting the carburetors for auto-lean and flying at 185 mph (298 km/h) indicated airspeed, which reduced fuel consumption to 70 gal/h, about 2.6 mpg. This combination of settings had been considered dangerous and would upset the fuel mixture, causing an explosion.[146]
While with the 475th, he took part in a number combat missions. On 28 July 1944, Lindbergh shot down a Mitsubishi Ki-51 "Sonia" flown by the veteran commander of the 73rd Independent Flying Chutai of the Imperial Japanese Army Captain Saburo Shimada. In an extended, twisting dogfight in which many of the participants ran out of ammunition, Shimada turned his aircraft directly toward Lindbergh, who was just approaching the combat area. Lindbergh fired in a defensive reaction brought on by Shimada's apparent head-on ramming attack. Hit by cannon and machine-gun fire, the "Sonia's" propeller visibly slowed, but Shimada held his course. Lindbergh pulled up at the last moment to avoid collision as the damaged "Sonia" went into a steep dive, hit the ocean, and sank. The unofficial kill was not entered in the 475th's war record. On 12 August 1944, Lindbergh left Hollandia to return to the United States.[147]
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On the P38.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning
So it was on carbureted engines. Interesting. There are many who still say not to do that given the uneven fuel distribution to the cylinders.
Personally I don’t think I will run LOP in my Bo, even with injection. My understanding is that it can be hard on the engine, particularly when going through peak. Sure it saves a few bucks and gets you some increased range, but is it worth it? What do people think?
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There's some discussion about human weakness/fallibility, possibly skewing national interests, potential for a sub-story about sexism and finally some reality that we are still plagued by the problem today with the author saying that 6% of American GA accidents have a shared root cause (not going to spoil it).
I think you raise a good point about why they didn’t develop injection more. But found the speaker’s explanation unsatisfying. I bet there is a lot more back story to this if you dig into the underlying documents and papers of the people involved.
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Oh! FDR stopped Lindberg. I thought he meant FDR banned flying LOP. LOL! Nevermind.
That’s how I read it as well. Doh!
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I didn’t think Lindbergh was in WWII due to the belief I’ve was a Nazi sympathizer. I had to consult Wiki:
In the years before the United States entered World War II, Lindbergh's non-interventionist stance and statements about Jews and race led some to suspect he was a Nazi sympathizer, although Lindbergh never publicly stated support for Nazi Germany and on multiple occasions condemned them in both his public speeches and in his personal diary. However, early on in the war he opposed not only the intervention of the United States but also the provision of aid to the United Kingdom.[5] He supported the antiwar America First Committee and resigned his commission in the U.S. Army Air Forces in April 1941 after President Franklin Roosevelt publicly rebuked him for his views. In September 1941, Lindbergh gave a significant address, titled "Speech on Neutrality", outlining his views and arguments against greater American involvement in the war.[6]
Lindbergh did ultimately express public support for the U.S. war effort after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the subsequent United States declaration of war upon Germany. He flew 50 missions in the Pacific Theater as a civilian consultant but did not take up arms,[7] as Roosevelt refused to reinstate his Air Corps colonel's commission. In 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower restored his commission and promoted him to brigadier general in the U.S. Air Force Reserve.[8] In his later years, Lindbergh became a prolific author, international explorer, inventor, and environmentalist, eventually dying of lymphoma in 1974 at age 72.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lindbergh
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I didn’t think Lindbergh was in WWII due to the belief I’ve was a Nazi sympathizer. I had to consult Wiki:
In the years before the United States entered World War II, Lindbergh's non-interventionist stance and statements about Jews and race led some to suspect he was a Nazi sympathizer, although Lindbergh never publicly stated support for Nazi Germany and on multiple occasions condemned them in both his public speeches and in his personal diary. However, early on in the war he opposed not only the intervention of the United States but also the provision of aid to the United Kingdom.[5] He supported the antiwar America First Committee and resigned his commission in the U.S. Army Air Forces in April 1941 after President Franklin Roosevelt publicly rebuked him for his views. In September 1941, Lindbergh gave a significant address, titled "Speech on Neutrality", outlining his views and arguments against greater American involvement in the war.[6]
Lindbergh did ultimately express public support for the U.S. war effort after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the subsequent United States declaration of war upon Germany. He flew 50 missions in the Pacific Theater as a civilian consultant but did not take up arms,[7] as Roosevelt refused to reinstate his Air Corps colonel's commission. In 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower restored his commission and promoted him to brigadier general in the U.S. Air Force Reserve.[8] In his later years, Lindbergh became a prolific author, international explorer, inventor, and environmentalist, eventually dying of lymphoma in 1974 at age 72.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lindbergh
So, he had kind of a centrist position but the mob labeled him an extremist? That never happens.
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So, he had kind of a centrist position but the mob labeled him an extremist? That never happens.
Well Chamberlain was considered to be a Centrist. If he had his way the Brits would be speaking German.
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Well Chamberlain was considered to be a Centrist. If he had his way the Brits would be speaking German.
I was against the Vietnam war back while it was on. I'm not a lefty by any stretch. But you are right. We can all be on the wrong side sometimes. Chamberlain was, not saying I was though. Vietnam was different. Boils down to waging a war to win vs waging a war hobbling your fighters.
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I was against the Vietnam war back while it was on. I'm not a lefty by any stretch. But you are right. We can all be on the wrong side sometimes. Chamberlain was, not saying I was though. Vietnam was different. Boils down to waging a war to win vs waging a war hobbling your fighters.
Vietnam was purely a "war for profit".
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Most Americans were against entering another "European War" considering the large amount of deaths in WWI. Pearl Harbor changed that and Hitler foolishly declared war on the U.S. then broke his treaty with the USSR which sealed Germany's fate.
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Most Americans were against entering another "European War" considering the large amount of deaths in WWI. Pearl Harbor changed that and Hitler foolishly declared war on the U.S. then broke his treaty with the USSR which sealed Germany's fate.
I believe the German’s considered Japan’s attack to be a very poor idea. But nonetheless followed their treaty obligations to Japan. Once they declared war on the US, ultimately they were done.