It's "We the People".

When the baby exits the womb, it becomes "the people" too.  But it isn't the Constitution that gives the baby rights, it's their status as a human being, the same as you.

Cutting the baby up before you take it out so that you conveniently don't have to be bothered is immoral beyond the pale.

The Mother Jones graph may be simplistic, but it clearly illustrates that wages for the bottom 80% of earners have remained flat for 40 some years.  Granted there are other factors involved but it is a fact.  Coupling that with inflation over time, the buying power of those in that bottom 80% have taken a big hurt. 

Glad that you recognize that upward mobility is far more difficult, particularly if a person doesn't own a specific skill. Personally think that has been going on for more than 25 years..  Agree that the stagnation isn't directly related to what the rich make.  So, why are there 90+ million discouraged workers? 

I'm "hoping" along with you.  We have a consumer society, without customers, that boom isn't going to happen.  With so many people living on the borderline, how is the President going to increase demand for products?  For the bottom 80%, there isn't a lot of disposable income available.  Without extra cash to spend, where are the customers?  Half of all tax filers pay little or no income tax, so a tax cut does nothing for them.  As previously mentioned, the top 20% of earners already pay most income tax.

Capital ALWAYS follows return. Companies will inevitably move to areas that allow them to produce goods at the lowest cost possible.  Our economy is global, whether we like it or not.  I'm all for making our businesses more competitive, and that competition is off-shore. Unlike the 1950's - 60's and maybe the 70's, we are not a self contained economy, capable of increasing growth without the rest of the world.

Can you point out the errors in the "foolish" graph?  How in the world is that being used to promote socialism??

Ok, a lot to discuss here,  I'll try to hit it all.  First of all, the graph is adjusted to 2012 dollars, wages have gone up in all the groups but inflation has taken a severe toll making the adjusted data more flat than rising.  So why hasn't purchase power increased with the wages?  Well, money policy for one, and the large  growth of government, which is taking new record amounts of capital out of the economy each year.   Money policy, especially over the last 8 years has resulted in the money supply expanding devaluing the money already out there.  If all your money is in the bank you are losing your shirt.   It baffles me how the government can claim that inflation is low when the price of everything is going through the roof.   Government has turned into a monster over the past 10 or so years.  Regulations make it impossible for companies to respond quickly to anything.  The tax code requires teams to analyze, manage and report.  Want to build a new building, it can take years to secure all the permits.   It goes on and on.  The companies just pass this cost along and the little guy is most affected.  It's ironic as the little guy tries to stick it to the corporations by voting for these things, or I should say voting for the  people who say they will go after the corporations ,  these little guys end up paying for it all.

The 90+ million workers?  They are out of work as a direct result of what I wrote about in the first paragraph.   Businesses are fleeing an oppressive business environment.  35+% corporate tax rates, double taxation on dividends, regulatory nightmares.... these all drive business out.  Plus disaster trade deals that allow other countries to essentially take over whole industries.  That was the mass appeal of Trump, he said he was going to level the playing field, I can't wait to see what he does, I hope he is successful.

Half the tax filers pay no tax, so why do they file?  Because pandering politicians use our tax money to buy their votes via credits.  That was an easy one, and is an example of part of the problem.  And I'm afraid the solution to that problem is going to be very painful.  The issue is by accepting this pandering, these people are enslaving themselves to a system that long term, can't take care of them.   What's the answer?  Get the economy rolling again and get these people back to work.  And we need to stop making not working so appealing, welfare is supposed to be a safety net, not a job.  I've read that 35% of the population lived in households that received subsidies (means tested supplements).  That's an awful lot of people.  Think about it, when you are in a room with 30 people, 10 of them are getting subsidies.  When was the last time, you were in a public place where 35% of the people were disabled?  Something is wrong.  Put the money that's going into these programs to pay free loaders, the able bodied, put it back in the hands of the taxpayers, who will spend it and boost the economy.

Capital always follows return....  were that really true we would probably be in better shape.   The other big part of our problem, and what probably accounts for the top 5% increased slope income on that graph is again created by government.   Some time ago, probably around 40 years ago, the fat cats, some of the people in that 5% group, via lobbying, wrested control of public companies from the shareholders and gave it to their boards by having corporate laws changed.   These boards are cross pollinated by other elites from other companies.  Capital that used to fund research and growth is now raided by these boards with their incestuous relationships.  They enrich each other with little fear of an uprising by shareholders who have had their power diminished.    So the capital follows the modern day robber barrons.    As far as outsourcing, I think that has been what has crushed many strong US manufacturers.  I can think of one example, Motorola, a powerful cell phone manufacturer in the 80's and 90's, decided that manufacturing was dragging them down, so they sold their manufacturing to a large contract manufacturer so they could focus on "marketing".  Long story short, Motorola isn't the powerhouse in phones they used to be.   Personally I don't think off shore manufacturing is the panacea the  MBAs thought is was going to be.  I think for certain products it works, but for most it doesn't.  I don't think manufacturing is dead in the US, far from it.  With a little support from government rather than the asskicking that has been going on for years I think we might see a renaissance in manufacturing unparalleled in history.  We'll see.

I don't think I said there were errors in the graph, just that it didn't support what he was saying.  We don't live in a caste system, millions if not tens or more millions of people have crossed those "boundaries"  or quintiles in that graph.  You can't look at that graph and conclude people aren't upwardly mobile.   Graphs like that graph, or different variations of it, are used as the main canard to promote civil unrest and class envy.  Listen to Bernie Sanders and his talks on "democratic socialism", talks like his always depict the unfairness of the differences in graphs like that.   And that is how socialism gets footing in society.

Yeah - 'a rising tide floats all boats'. Nice theory, but it doesn't happen in reality - under either democratic or republican rule:

If you took all the money from the top 20% and split it up evenly among the bottom 80%, in a short period of time, the graph would be back to where it is today. 

You can't legislate fairness.  Some people are going to succeed.  Some people are going to get by and some people are going to fail.  That's life.

As Neil Bortz said:

The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer,
because the rich keep doing what makes them rich,
and the poor keep doing what makes them poor.

Perhaps all the "social programs" that we have for the poor de-motivates them from getting ahead and "losing their benefits".

Not exactly afraid. Were we afraid of Russia in the cold war? I don't believe we were, but we still had to treat them with kid gloves.

It wasn't Russia back then, it was the Union of Soviets Socialist Republic. (Loser socialist/communist regimes screwing everything up as they always do).    And yes, people were afraid during the cold war.  And the progressive nutjobs went bonkers when Reagan announced peace through strength, deployed the "peacekeeper" missile and announced the SDI initiative, it was a beautiful thing.  Ted Kennedy had one of his many treasonous  bizarre moments when he asked the Soviets to "unseat" Reagan for fear he would start WW3.  Of course, turns out Reagan skillfully handled the Soviets leading to the commies ceding control and the end of the cold war.

It's reminiscent of what Trump is doing now.

Nice conversation, but it has nothing to do with socialism.

Ok, go ahead, tell me how you are personally worse off on January 2017 as compared to January 2009.

Are you earning less money? Are you paying a higher % of your salary in federal taxes? What exactly did he do to you?

What about the states that saw skyrocketing premiums, like Arizona (116%)? Some people are earning less money and some people would rather pay the "tax" for not having healthcare than have to spend the ridiculous amount it takes to get basic, terrible coverage.

You can't expect Trump to marry 326 million people.

Well, minus 1.

This statement seems to imply that Trump has done something to you or others. What was it?

Close your eyes and imagine a 250lbs sweaty black man holding a knife to your 10 year old daughters throat, pulling down her panties and thrusting himself into her over and over again. She resists and he hits her with the back of the knife, shattering her cheek and jaw-bone. She barely survives. And your response will be to tell her that she now has to carry that baby to term.

Always the corner case with you people.

Beyond that, you disturb me.

I am somewhat surprised we haven't seen a coup, or uprising in Venezuela yet as things are very bad there.  Of course our media doesn't report so much on the failure of communism in places like Venezuela, and Cuba.  The Hollywood, and media types are too busy idolizing Che Guevera, Castro, and Chavez.  If their murderous, corrupt practices, and ideology was put on display, their little Utopian Bubble would be burst. 

If these places were such utopias of Rainbows, and Unicorns why do so many people want to get out?

The LA Times had an article yesterday discussing the Venezuelan opposition leader:

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-venezuela-capriles-2017-story.html

Venezuela has the opportunity to be prosperous and self-sustaining with all of their oil and potential for tourism. This is what a true socialist government looks like.