Post by: Number7 on December 04, 2018, 06:25:47 AM
The fact that they are both noted for their corruption and dishonesty, as well as their devotion to communism should tell you all you need to know. The quote below reminds me an awful lot of the final solution... How long before the UN and barry the magical liar, start demanding wholesale 'depopulation' measures to save the planet - and enrich themselves?
‘Failure to act will be catastrophic'”The impacts of climate change are increasingly hard to ignore,” said the statement, a copy of which was obtained by AFP. “We require deep transformations of our economies and societies.””The impacts of climate change are increasingly hard to ignore,” said the statement, a copy of which was obtained by AFP. “We require deep transformations of our economies and societies.”
http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/12/03/un-climate-chief-has-solution-to-urgent-climate-threat-we-require-deep-transformations-of-our-economies-and-societies/
Post by: Anthony on December 04, 2018, 06:33:46 AM
Post by: Steingar on December 04, 2018, 07:28:02 AM
Post by: azure on December 04, 2018, 07:30:40 AM
Quote
Just this week, the UN’s environment programme said the voluntary national contributions agreed in Paris would have to triple if the world was to cap global warming below 2C. For 1.5C, they must increase fivefold.
Where do they get these numbers from? The truth is that to know what would be needed to cap global warming below ANY given amount, you need to know the equilibrium climate sensitivity and/or the transient climate response. Neither is known with any precision, and the ECS is known only to within a factor of between 3 and 4. Feedback effects, especially the effect of clouds, are NOT well understood and depending on assumptions and methods, can yield an ECS anywhere from 1.5C to 4.5C or even 6C.
The Paris agreement refers to a target that has moved and will likely move again depending on the results of future research; it's not something we currently know how to achieve. Political grandstanding doesn't change that fact, and just makes it obvious that the motives aren't grounded in science, but are simply... political.
Post by: azure on December 04, 2018, 07:47:32 AM
I love America. I am just saddened that soon quite a bit of it will be underwater. But whatever, I live inland.
Sadly, this appears to be true. The questions are (1) to what degree we can mitigate that outcome by reducing GHG emissions, and (2) how much it will cost us to do so. Ignoring the fact that we don't know how much reduction is needed to forestall that outcome, we don't currently have the technology to power our civilization entirely with renewable sources, we haven't faced the land-use problem inherent in converting even a significant fraction of the grid over to solar and wind power, and public opinion has effectively nixed the only currently available zero-GHG technology that has the capacity to take up the slack, namely nuclear fission. So we're going to continue emitting GHGs at the current rate or close to it for the foreseeable future, barring a global epidemic or major economic collapse. It seems a more realistic goal at this point is adaptation rather than mitigation. Stop building coastal communities, provide incentives for people to move to higher ground and away from wilderness areas prone to wildfires, work on better models to forecast extreme weather.
Humans have always faced challenges from natural disasters and we've always managed to survive. I don't see the current situation as any different, even if (as it seems) we are now likely at least a major contributor to it.
Post by: Anthony on December 04, 2018, 07:52:31 AM
Post by: Number7 on December 04, 2018, 07:55:51 AM
The entire mmgw scam is a scheme to defraud working people of their income, and empower liberals to control the lives of other people, which gives liberals a bone every time.
IF mmgw and the ridiculous predictions had any validity, then al gore wouldn't own his horrendously expensive ocean front property and he wouldn't fly private jets to make speeches about the evils of fossil fuels. The hypocrites of the left have only ever had one agenda, which is to accumulate power and money at the expense of the people who worked for it.
My challenge to every global warming whore is to show me what the proper temperature of planet earth should be.
If the current temperature is wrong, then what is right and why? What science, other than fraudulent, studies that have been proven to have been adjusted to meet the intentions of the left, what makes lowering the current temperature good?
The real question [people need to be asking is WHO BENEFITS from all the money these whores are demanding? The answer to that will tell you what the real agenda is and what they want to acheive.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 04, 2018, 08:00:10 AM
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/climate-change/climate-alarm-failed-prognostications/
Post by: Lucifer on December 04, 2018, 08:07:28 AM
Right now all the climate change bullshit involves power and money and doesn't convince me it's being done for the benefit except for a select few monetarily.
Post by: azure on December 04, 2018, 10:00:17 AM
How can you measure change in something that has changed drastically, and constantly on its own forever? Also can you attribute the change to Man? There is no proof, nor evidence that is BELIEVABLE from the scientific community. NONE.
The evidence is not zero but it is not at 100% either. I'm at work now, but if I get a chance later I'll try to post something about it. Suffice it to say that disentangling human effects from natural variability is very difficult and the reason it has taken so long for definitive pronouncements to come out of the research community. I still think the confidence in the degree of human effect is overstated at present though. More later... maybe.
Post by: bflynn on December 04, 2018, 12:50:56 PM
Can I sue them because I acted on their advice and kept my house and then they were wrong?
Post by: Rush on December 04, 2018, 12:54:52 PM
The evidence is not zero but it is not at 100% either. I'm at work now, but if I get a chance later I'll try to post something about it. Suffice it to say that disentangling human effects from natural variability is very difficult and the reason it has taken so long for definitive pronouncements to come out of the research community. I still think the confidence in the degree of human effect is overstated at present though. More later... maybe.
This is true plus it is also difficult to disentangle true information from political or monetary motivations. MMGW has become a huge money maker. Aside from "green" industry, government carbon taxes are huge money makers, so both government and private sectors are heavily invested in Man caused climate change to be true.
Post by: nddons on December 04, 2018, 01:00:13 PM
I love America. I am just saddened that soon quite a bit of it will be underwater. But whatever, I live inland.I know. The fucking Chinese, Indians, Vietnamese and other third world countries just don’t give two shits about our earth.
Post by: nddons on December 04, 2018, 01:11:39 PM
According to climate change prognosticators, my house near Raleigh is supposed to beach front property by now.At a minimum they should pay for the dock that you installed.
Can I sue them because I acted on their advice and kept my house and then they were wrong?
Post by: Steingar on December 04, 2018, 01:23:24 PM
But you would all listen to the Koch brothers than the scientists. What you don't realize is the scientists don't get paid for the work they do for the government (the scientists who contributed to the most recent report were paid nothing at all to do so) but climate change deniers are almost all of them paid by the fossil fuel industry. They get paid for what they do for their home institutions, but they get paid no matter what their conclusions.
But whatever. You'll all deride me as a liberal ivory tower professor who knows nothing, so have at it. Like I said, I live inland and in the North. We'll be just fine. Those of you on the coasts will get to deal with flooding from now on. Those of you in the southeast will get to deal with temperatures incompatible with human physiology (too hot).
The only ones I feel sorry for are all the children who are being handed a broken world. But I haven't any, so I don't have to worry about it.
Post by: Lucifer on December 04, 2018, 01:30:28 PM
Whatever it costs to try and mitigate CO2 emissions is peanuts compared to the costs of climate change run amok.
But you would all listen to the Koch brothers than the scientists. What you don't realize is the scientists don't get paid for the work they do for the government (the scientists who contributed to the most recent report were paid nothing at all to do so) but climate change deniers are almost all of them paid by the fossil fuel industry. They get paid for what they do for their home institutions, but they get paid no matter what their conclusions.
But whatever. You'll all deride me as a liberal ivory tower professor who knows nothing, so have at it. Like I said, I live inland and in the North. We'll be just fine. Those of you on the coasts will get to deal with flooding from now on. Those of you in the southeast will get to deal with temperatures incompatible with human physiology (too hot).
The only ones I feel sorry for are all the children who are being handed a broken world. But I haven't any, so I don't have to worry about it.
Again, please show me a plan that doesn't give more government control not only to mitigation, but an entire host of "related" areas that they wish to regulate.
And show me a plan that doesn't include schemes to make select individuals very wealthy at our expense.
OwlGore has used this hoax to make $millions$ for himself while he owns a home that uses 10 times the energy of an average home, he drives around in gas guzzling SUV's and limousines, and flies around in private jets leaving a huge carbon footprint.
Post by: Number7 on December 04, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
Whatever it costs to try and mitigate CO2 emissions is peanuts compared to the costs of climate change run amok.
But you would all listen to the Koch brothers than the scientists. What you don't realize is the scientists don't get paid for the work they do for the government (the scientists who contributed to the most recent report were paid nothing at all to do so) but climate change deniers are almost all of them paid by the fossil fuel industry. They get paid for what they do for their home institutions, but they get paid no matter what their conclusions.
But whatever. You'll all deride me as a liberal ivory tower professor who knows nothing, so have at it. Like I said, I live inland and in the North. We'll be just fine. Those of you on the coasts will get to deal with flooding from now on. Those of you in the southeast will get to deal with temperatures incompatible with human physiology (too hot).
The only ones I feel sorry for are all the children who are being handed a broken world. But I haven't any, so I don't have to worry about it.
Bullshit...
Bullshit...
and more bullshit....
Once the lefty starts whining about the poor children you know their lying out their ass.
Funny how every time a liberal loses a debate they go straight to either you racist conservatives, you greedy industrial conservatives, or the last bastion of ignorance - think of the children.
Post by: Number7 on December 04, 2018, 02:06:02 PM
The evidence is not zero but it is not at 100% either. I'm at work now, but if I get a chance later I'll try to post something about it. Suffice it to say that disentangling human effects from natural variability is very difficult and the reason it has taken so long for definitive pronouncements to come out of the research community. I still think the confidence in the degree of human effect is overstated at present though. More later... maybe.
Where you are sitting used to be covered with a thousand feet of ice.
Once upon a time those same areas were covered with a thousand feet of water.
The planet is constantly warming and cooling. The real problem is that the media has allowed the mmgw whores redefine the discussion to bracket it in a very short period of time, pretend that whatever weather events are occurring actually are not just weather, but proof of mmgw, and every time anyone disputes thee lies of people like steingar, they are branded, attacked, disparaged and shouted into silence by people with only one dog in the fight, and that is all about the money.
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 04, 2018, 07:02:55 PM
Whatever it costs to try and mitigate CO2 emissions is peanuts compared to the costs of climate change run amok.
Cite?
Quote
But you would all listen to the Koch brothers than the scientists.
I have no idea why you bring up the Koch brothers. They weren’t previously mentioned. I didn’t even know their views on the subject. Turns out they don’t deny climate change. But they do have their own views on how it should be addressed, as noted in this exchange:
JT: Jim Tankersley
CK: Charles Koch
JT: Do you think it’s a problem the market can solve, without governments?
CK: I think it will, just like we’re doing all these things (at Koch Industries). We’re investing heavily in biofuels, in biotechnology, in information technology, to do this. Why do we do it? Because we think through innovation we can make it competitive, better than competitive. And that’s the way to go. And like, Bill Gates is raising billions to go find it — that’s the way to do it, is innovation. So it’s win-win, rather than more cronyism, which so far, all it does is enrich a few people and hurt the average and particularly the poor.
While we’re at it, we should note that the Koch Nitrogen Co. plant near Enid, Okla., has also been highlighted as a leader in carbon capture and sequestration. Carbon dioxide from the process of making nitrogen fertilizer is piped to oilfields nearby, where it is used in enhanced oil recovery and then left buried beneath the ground, according to the Global CCS Institute.
“Exceptionally, the Enid Fertilizer plant in Oklahoma, United States, operated by the Koch Nitrogen Company, has captured over 600000 tCO2 a year since 2003 for use in [enhanced oil recovery],” notes the United Nations Industrial Development Organization.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/06/what-charles-koch-really-thinks-about-climate-change/?utm_term=.51d04fd47a01 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/06/what-charles-koch-really-thinks-about-climate-change/?utm_term=.51d04fd47a01)
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What you don't realize is the scientists don't get paid for the work they do for the government (the scientists who contributed to the most recent report were paid nothing at all to do so) but climate change deniers are almost all of them paid by the fossil fuel industry. They get paid for what they do for their home institutions, but they get paid no matter what their conclusions.
Judith Curry is one of several anthropomorphic climate change skeptics where that tawdry argument fails. The entire argument you posit is actually anti-scientific. In the scientific method you are supposed to address the content of the arguments rather than the content of the character making the arguments.
Quote
But whatever. You'll all deride me as a liberal ivory tower professor who knows nothing, so have at it.
That others address arguments you make by attacking your character hardly makes their attacks valid. There are many readers who recognize and ignore the character attacks from all parties. Some posters post mostly character attacks. It’s like watching someone constantly spitting into the wind.
Post by: azure on December 04, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
The science behind the greenhouse effect is solid and not in dispute by any but people who are confused about basic physics (e.g. Gerlich and Tscheuschner). The mean temperature on Earth would be well below the freezing point of water without it, and Venus would be cooler than Mercury instead of hotter.
Isotope ratios establish that the rise in atmospheric CO2 is mostly due to the burning of fossil fuels. This is also not in serious dispute.
As we pump more CO2 into the atmosphere, the mean temperature will rise. That's not in dispute either. How fast and how much is. How much of the recent warming is due to us vs natural variability is debatable, but that a significant fraction of it is due to greenhouse warming seems certain. It is not due to changes in solar output. There are fingerprints in the recent warming that point strongly to a greenhouse component (e.g. stratospheric cooling). Also uncertain (because the models differ in their projections) is what the effects will be on a more local or regional level. Locally colder winters in areas like New England and the Canadian Maritimes MIGHT be an indirect effect of the changes brought about by greenhouse warming... or they might be unrelated.
If it turns out that the recent warming is mostly natural variability, give it time. Eventually the signal of greenhouse warming will be impossible to miss even in the general climate noise. I don't think we're quite there yet, but we will be eventually.
Oh... and I don't think Curry qualifies as a climate change skeptic, certainly not a denialist, more of a lukewarmist. Her work with Nic Lewis points to an ECS on the lower end of the uncertainty range. She is outside the visible mainstream of voices predicting imminent catastrophe, but doesn't question the basic science or that humans are part of the cause for the recent warming. I think her recent interests focus mostly on adaptation strategies.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 04, 2018, 09:11:51 PM
Post by: Lucifer on December 04, 2018, 09:16:01 PM
Right?
Post by: Number7 on December 04, 2018, 09:21:16 PM
But if we allow more laws to be written, and more rights to be restricted, along with new taxes to be created, then that will fix everything!
Right?
You left out give all our money to shit for brains democrats (communists) and the seas will recede into their banks on their own. Didn’t that communist moron barry promise that?
Post by: bflynn on December 04, 2018, 09:24:40 PM
As we pump more CO2 into the atmosphere, the mean temperature will rise. That's not in dispute either. How fast and how much is.
This is where the MMGW crowd cross the line from science into religion. They DON'T know about what's going to happen. They have made models which have self proving assumptions in them, models which have produced wrong predictions for nearly 50 years. Then they want to dictate to everyone how we have to change our lives to coddle their ignorance.
Their beliefs about the oceans boiling away or NYC being under 10' of water are not rationally based in science. Yet, they will not admit that and if anyone dares to present something that doesn't conform, then that position is ridiculed with taunts instead of hard science while any position which supports their belief is endorsed, regardless of feasibility or realism.
This hurts them. Yet, they cannot get people off this as a religious thing and the science continues to suffer. It's a bit like the mix of church and science in the medieval times; what is true in science cannot be said when it contradicts the religion. Therefore I say we are in the Dark Ages of climate science.
Post by: Anthony on December 04, 2018, 09:47:43 PM
Post by: azure on December 05, 2018, 06:00:46 AM
This is where the MMGW crowd cross the line from science into religion. They DON'T know about what's going to happen. They have made models which have self proving assumptions in them, models which have produced wrong predictions for nearly 50 years. Then they want to dictate to everyone how we have to change our lives to coddle their ignorance.
Their beliefs about the oceans boiling away or NYC being under 10' of water are not rationally based in science. Yet, they will not admit that and if anyone dares to present something that doesn't conform, then that position is ridiculed with taunts instead of hard science while any position which supports their belief is endorsed, regardless of feasibility or realism.
This hurts them. Yet, they cannot get people off this as a religious thing and the science continues to suffer. It's a bit like the mix of church and science in the medieval times; what is true in science cannot be said when it contradicts the religion. Therefore I say we are in the Dark Ages of climate science.
Agreed on all points except calling them the "MMGW crowd". There is really no serious argument over whether MMGW exists. I call them the "Chicken Little crowd". The more specific and precise the predictions, the less confidence I have in them.
Or maybe that should be the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" crowd. Because what they are really doing is undermining public confidence in science, and not only climate science. Worse, there is a good chance that some of the less dire predictions will come true, but not in the way and at the time predicted, further undermining confidence. MMGW is a problem that we need to tackle - but it's a "wicked" problem, one full of unknown unknowns and in which all possible courses of action have negative, maybe intolerable consequences.
We don't need doomsayers, we need (1) clear eyed, rational problem solvers, (2) more information, especially about feedbacks, and (3) less groupthink in the climate science community. There is too much pressure to conform to the "consensus"; failure to conform can destroy careers. (Judith Curry was forced to resign from Georgia Tech, reportedly because she didn't tow the line - fortunately she was apparently able to land on her feet.)
Post by: Steingar on December 05, 2018, 07:20:23 AM
This is where the MMGW crowd cross the line from science into religion. They DON'T know about what's going to happen.
That isn't an unreasonable statement. Unfortunately we really don't know what a warmer world is going to look like. The hurricane drought was ample proof of that.
The one thing we do know is that the seas are going to rise, and they are. That is quite a big deal, since 90% of humanity lives on a coast of some sort.
But I'm part of the 10% that doesn't, and I live in the North. You can all suffer, I'll be just fine.
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2018, 07:32:39 AM
That isn't an unreasonable statement. Unfortunately we really don't know what a warmer world is going to look like. The hurricane drought was ample proof of that.
The one thing we do know is that the seas are going to rise, and they are. That is quite a big deal, since 90% of humanity lives on a coast of some sort.
But I'm part of the 10% that doesn't, and I live in the North. You can all suffer, I'll be just fine.
So through out my life I've kept boats on the east coast and on the Gulf coast. At all of the various marinas that I frequent I've never witnessed a change on the MWL along the sea walls. None.
I've boated a large portion of the ICWW, again, no changes to the MWL. Lots of homes along the ICWW, have been for years, and the water lines on the sea wall are where they were for years. (Some areas of the ICWW are shallower now due to shoaling, but that is natural due to tides and water flow).
At my current marina, the water along the sea walls is the same as it's been for the past decade, no change.
But according to you, the seas are rising and soon we will all be under water. ::)
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 05, 2018, 08:01:12 AM
The oceans have been rising slowly throughout the interglacial period, but recent evidence suggests slowing. Sea ice does not affect water levels, only ice sheets over land, and that’s been very gradual, obviously.
An entirely different phenomenon is the sinking of land for various reasons, sometimes infrastructure, river channeling, levees, compromised health of marshes that buffer shorelines.
Every time I’m near a coast, I see lines of big homes being built out on spits and jetties. Seems dumb to me, much like building at the base of a large hill.
But there you go.
Post by: Anthony on December 05, 2018, 08:28:47 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 05, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1070072088931663872
Post by: Number7 on December 05, 2018, 12:53:10 PM
A LOT of building has happened on Barrier Islands like the coast of NJ, and NC. They are prone to flooding, and notoriously unstable.
...and many of those homes are owned by mmge whores, who obviously don't buy the religious mantra they are selling.
al gore for instance...
Post by: Steingar on December 05, 2018, 02:26:58 PM
So through out my life I've kept boats on the east coast and on the Gulf coast. At all of the various marinas that I frequent I've never witnessed a change on the MWL along the sea walls. None.
I've boated a large portion of the ICWW, again, no changes to the MWL. Lots of homes along the ICWW, have been for years, and the water lines on the sea wall are where they were for years. (Some areas of the ICWW are shallower now due to shoaling, but that is natural due to tides and water flow).
At my current marina, the water along the sea walls is the same as it's been for the past decade, no change.
Since you don't see anything it can't be happening. Yeah, whatever. Like I said, I live in the North and way inland. You can all drown, I don't feel sorry for you in the least. Florida will go first, its a peninsula at about 1 foot above sea level. I hope you enjoy growing gills.
Post by: nddons on December 05, 2018, 02:42:36 PM
Let’s all join hands and drink some Jim Jones Kool Aid. Ain’t no point to life anymore.Can you imagine living your life with a treble hook in your lip being towed around being the MSM dingy, never able to free yourself?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1070072088931663872
I guess her life IS pointless.
Post by: Number7 on December 05, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
Since you don't see anything it can't be happening. Yeah, whatever. Like I said, I live in the North and way inland. You can all drown, I don't feel sorry for you in the least. Florida will go first, its a peninsula at about 1 foot above sea level. I hope you enjoy growing gills.
What utter Bullshit.
Post by: Anthony on December 05, 2018, 03:24:01 PM
Since you don't see anything it can't be happening. Yeah, whatever. Like I said, I live in the North and way inland. You can all drown, I don't feel sorry for you in the least. Florida will go first, its a peninsula at about 1 foot above sea level. I hope you enjoy growing gills.
I guess you believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, and Sasquatch, because I guarantee you'll see all of them before any of that alarmist crap happens.
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
Since you don't see anything it can't be happening. Yeah, whatever. Like I said, I live in the North and way inland. You can all drown, I don't feel sorry for you in the least. Florida will go first, its a peninsula at about 1 foot above sea level. I hope you enjoy growing gills.
Your ignorance is just astounding. Facts don't coincide with your twisted beliefs.
Unlike you I have spent the better part of the past 3 decades on the coast in one way or another. At one marina on Florida's east coast they still have the original boat houses built back in the 1930's. Funny thing is they are still sitting where built, and the water levels are still the same. A good friend of mine has a beach house near Stuart, and over the past decade and a half the beach is still there and the water levels have remained the same.
If the sea levels have changed the way you think they have, you better notify the NOAA of your findings. Seems all of the navigation charts aren't reflecting the data you said has changed.
This statement is just idiotic, at best:
Quote
Florida will go first, its a peninsula at about 1 foot above sea level.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 05, 2018, 05:09:36 PM
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2018, 05:16:06 PM
Michael, why won't you address the hypocrisy of someone like Bernie Sanders flying all over in private jets and telling us all about global climate change?
Never mind that Leonardo DeCaprio flew from Europe to the US, in a G5, alone (except for crew) to accept an award for his contribution in fighting MMGW.
And then we have Schwarzenegger has been a part of the Climate Change religion. Of course he jets around in his G5 (He use to commute back and forth in it from LA to Sacramento, daily) and he has a fleet of SUV's, plus multiple mansions.
Limousine Liberals. They know what's best for the rest of us.
Post by: Steingar on December 06, 2018, 06:59:26 AM
Michael, why won't you address the hypocrisy of someone like Bernie Sanders flying all over in private jets and telling us all about global climate change?
Yeah, the guy is supposed to fly coach. Whatever.
Post by: Anthony on December 06, 2018, 07:08:53 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 06, 2018, 07:42:44 AM
Yeah, the guy is supposed to fly coach. Whatever.
Wouldn't flying on a 200 seat passenger airliner contribute a smaller carbon foot print than one person being flown on a G5?
Post by: Little Joe on December 06, 2018, 11:24:52 AM
How can you measure Man's alleged contribution to Climate Change when it often changes naturally, and drastically? How do you establish a Base Line which is essential for this type of analysis?Well, if you are a conservative, you look for facts.
If you are a liberal, you just feel it.
Post by: Anthony on December 06, 2018, 11:31:52 AM
The reason they have used MMGW to push more government taxes, fees, and surcharges is due to the constant natural changing climate it is both difficult to prove, and difficult to disprove. It is a religious mantra they base on flawed analysis, very minute sample size, and dire, catastrophic predictions in order to terrify, and invoke emotion.
Post by: bflynn on December 06, 2018, 05:03:27 PM
Yeah, the guy is supposed to fly coach.
It would be very proletarian of him.