Post by: Username on August 16, 2023, 03:11:08 PM
So... do any of you have any experience with one of the accelerated instrument training programs? Total immersion for a couple weeks and just get it done. Or I can go the usual route with a couple flights a week and get it done that way.
Advice? Comments? Suggestions?
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2023, 03:20:56 PM
Post by: Little Joe on August 16, 2023, 04:05:52 PM
I've been informed that I need to get off my ass and finish my instrument rating. About 20 years ago I was nearly done and in the "polishing" stage when my wife got very sick and my priorities changed. Some 16 years later I took the written again, got training lined up and then Covid. Two years later I took the written again, got an instructor lined up, and then he moved to Florida leaving no choices. I'm finally ready to go again.How old are you? IOW, are you able to drink from a firehose?
So... do any of you have any experience with one of the accelerated instrument training programs? Total immersion for a couple weeks and just get it done. Or I can go the usual route with a couple flights a week and get it done that way.
Advice? Comments? Suggestions?
I think one of those total immersion programs would have been great when I was young.
Today, I need more time to digest what I am learning.
And yes. I hate to admit that.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 16, 2023, 04:14:35 PM
If I read your story right, you’ve taken the written three times?
That suggests the knowledge is in your brain, so “intensive” might translate to ”refresher.”
My husband got his IFR then went through the training course again, just because he wanted to. I love him though.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 16, 2023, 04:53:30 PM
Post by: Username on August 16, 2023, 05:02:22 PM
How old are you? IOW, are you able to drink from a firehose?I'd like to think so. I'm 66 and still learning stuff through my research. I think that it might be a bit easier for me since I've already had so much training already vs. starting from zero. Much of it will be review and rebuilding the muscle memory, scan, and such. Taking (and passing) the written a fourth time is a bit embarrassing but that seems to be the easy part. Trying to program the GPS in turbulence is the challenge.
I think one of those total immersion programs would have been great when I was young.
Today, I need more time to digest what I am learning.
And yes. I hate to admit that.
Post by: Old Crow on August 16, 2023, 05:24:25 PM
Post by: Rush on August 16, 2023, 05:58:23 PM
I agree with Little Joe, for me it takes longer to absorb things than when I was young, so I'd probably do it the slow way, but then you've already learned it all so it should come back easily.
So maybe it depends on how you feel about the instructor.
Post by: nddons on August 16, 2023, 07:50:46 PM
Post by: Anthony on August 17, 2023, 05:59:45 AM
Little Joe and others, I recall a guy from POA who flew his own airplane to student’s airports for accelerated instrument training. Am I recalling that correctly?
Ron Levi used to do that. Maybe still does. I forget the outfit he worked for.
Post by: Username on August 17, 2023, 06:33:54 AM
Post by: nddons on August 17, 2023, 08:03:07 AM
I'm meeting with the local instructor today. We'll see if my 170 is appropriate and he's willing to teach in it. Otherwise, there are no IFR aircraft for rent on the field. Heeding advice here, I think that the accelerated training would have been great when I was 20. Now, while I might be able to keep up, I'd rather enjoy the ride and take it slow.If a CFII doesn’t think a 170 is appropriate, find another CFII. It’s a 172 with a cool tailwheel. Maybe the kid doesn’t have much TW time, but the IR is about flying, not landing.
Caveat is that it is equipped for IFR of course.
Post by: Rush on August 17, 2023, 08:27:32 AM
If a CFII doesn’t think a 170 is appropriate, find another CFII. It’s a 172 with a cool tailwheel. Maybe the kid doesn’t have much TW time, but the IR is about flying, not landing.
Caveat is that it is equipped for IFR of course.
I second this although do you have to have GPS now to fly IFR? I never got certified but I learned it back in the days before GPS, had a sim and we had a panel in our first plane before GPS was even a thing. God I’m old. Hell when I first flew people didn't even use headsets. It’s one reason I’m so fucking deaf now.
Last I remember you didn’t have to have it but if it was in your panel you had to know how to use it. I bet it’s required now, aren’t they dismantling all the old navigation aids? Except ILS glide slopes?
Post by: Little Joe on August 17, 2023, 08:33:49 AM
Hell when I first flew people didn't even use headsets. It’s one reason I’m so fucking deaf now.Same here.
Well that and rock concerts.
And working in a sheet metal shop in a little steel building.
And working in a Diesel repair shop in a big steel building.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 17, 2023, 08:36:41 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 17, 2023, 08:44:49 AM
GPS is almost required these days as more GPS approaches show up. At some point we'll probably see ILS approaches become a thing of the past.
ILS's will be around for many more years, at least at major airports.
ILS being ground based means if there is a GPS outage they still have a precision approach. Plus ILS is scalable to Cat 2 and Cat 3 minimums whereas GPS is not.
Post by: Username on August 17, 2023, 09:04:10 AM
I upgraded my 170 to be a great instrument trainer. Garmin 355 GPS and three Garmin 275s. Practically glass panel. A second nav-com for ILS or VOR approaches, ADSB transponder and it's good to go. The only thing missing is a heated pitot tube. But good enough for VFR IFR training.
Post by: Rush on August 17, 2023, 09:25:09 AM
Same here.
Well that and rock concerts.
And working in a sheet metal shop in a little steel building.
And working in a Diesel repair shop in a big steel building.
Well yeah rock concerts. I took a decibel meter to a rock concert once. It stayed at least 90 the whole time with many excursions as high as 140 and I was sitting almost the farthest in the stands. Wouldn’t have dreamed of wearing earplugs back then, nobody did. I got clue that maybe it wasn’t the best thing but I was young and stupid. Your ears would ring for a few hours then stop and you didn’t think you’d done permanent damage but you did. You just didn’t notice it until it started stacking up. Back in the 1970s and early 80s hearing protection simply was not a thing. Maybe for some extremely loud professions but not your run of the mill situations.
And working around loud machinery in 14 hour shifts to put myself through college. Again, hearing protection wasn’t even on anybody’s radar.
And both my parents went very deaf with old age so I get a double whammy genetically too.
Post by: Username on October 11, 2023, 07:23:33 AM
Post by: Rush on October 11, 2023, 09:21:10 AM
Started my instrument (re)training yesterday. 1.2 under the hood. After 20 years things came back pretty quickly. Documented the pitch / power settings for various climbs and descents. Then progressed to some rapid-fire altitude and/or heading changes. Glass is SO much easier to fly with than the old six-pack. But even so I'm glad I have the analog altitude and rate of climb indicators for quick reference. I still have to work on rapid interpretation and finding what I need to see quickly. Then not fixating. The heading and altitude bugs are super helpful. The 170 is less stable than a 172 so changing altitude / heading while programming the GPS means things go wonky in a hurry. Next flight in a week. Looking forward to it!
Glass is easier than steam gauge? I can’t imagine that’s true considering how much I despise my smartphone and all digital things with glass screens. Don’t get me started on the electronic controls of appliances. Get off my lawn!
Glad you’re doing well. :D
Post by: Little Joe on October 11, 2023, 01:55:09 PM
Glass is easier than steam gauge? I can’t imagine that’s true considering how much I despise my smartphone and all digital things with glass screens. Don’t get me started on the electronic controls of appliances. Get off my lawn!Gosh. I hope I don't get like that when I get old. I'm only 71 now.
I bet you still even like honest to God BOOKS. If I can't read it on my Ipad or Iphone, it doesn't get read.
Post by: Rush on October 11, 2023, 03:03:47 PM
Gosh. I hope I don't get like that when I get old. I'm only 71 now.
I bet you still even like honest to God BOOKS. If I can't read it on my Ipad or Iphone, it doesn't get read.
Read a whole book? My brain can’t process anything longer than a Twitter post anymore.
Post by: Username on October 12, 2023, 12:02:37 PM
Read a whole book? My brain can’t process anything longer than a Twitter post anymore.I like reading periodicals on my iPad like the EAA and AOPA magazines. I like books for the lying in bed reading before I go to sleep. I just finished the Silmarillion again and I'm about to re-read the Princess of Mars series. I love the feel and smell of a fresh book, and the savoring of each word in print. The crisp feel of actual paper pages. Yeah, books are good.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 12, 2023, 01:54:19 PM
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2023, 03:37:59 PM
“The Science and Art of Midwifery” 1890
Next to oldest “Pilgrim’s Progress”, no date stated but likely 1903. My great-great aunt wrote her name in it and the date March 22, 1904.
Post by: Little Joe on October 12, 2023, 03:43:52 PM
Resonating. I adore old books, and try to find old copies of my favorite books so I can ditch the new ones. No better word choice than “savoring” for the feeling of reading a print book. I’ve been known to buy an old book just because of the way it feels in my hand, and falls open inviting me to read it.You sound just like my wife, who from your many comments you seem to detest.
Now she is trying to get the musty mildew smell out of her library.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 12, 2023, 03:57:02 PM
You sound just like my wife, who from your many comments you seem to detest.
Now she is trying to get the musty mildew smell out of her library.
I take umbrage at your statement about me and challenge you to produce even one iota of evidence that I detest, or even seem to detest, your wife. You, sir, accuse me falsely. I presume it is because you have managed a dozen days or so here on PilotSpin without having your feelings hurt, and so you must cast about for something about which to be offended. I urge you to break that addiction.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 12, 2023, 04:01:47 PM
(http://)
Post by: Little Joe on October 12, 2023, 04:03:19 PM
I take umbrage at your statement about me and challenge you to produce even one iota of evidence that I detest, or even seem to detest, your wife. You, sir, accuse me falsely. I presume it is because you have managed a dozen days or so here on PilotSpin without having your feelings hurt, and so you must cast about for something about which to be offended. I urge you to break that addiction.Take umbrage all you want. When you, Lucifer and Anthony stop bringing up my wife, I will stop abusing you for it.
I don't always agree with her, but she is off limits here.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 12, 2023, 04:16:49 PM
Take umbrage all you want. When you, Lucifer and Anthony stop bringing up my wife, I will stop abusing you for it.You didn’t provide proof of your detestation claim, I don’t recall anyone here mentioning her for months, if not longer, and you brought her up, even though you state she is off limits. If that’s the way you feel, then perhaps you shouldn’t mention her. I’m pleased we share a love of old books. Egad. I swore I wouldn’t get embroiled with irrational people anymore. Bad Becky.
I don't always agree with her, but she is off limits here.
Post by: Lucifer on October 12, 2023, 04:31:38 PM
Take umbrage all you want. When you, Lucifer and Anthony stop bringing up my wife, I will stop abusing you for it.
I don't always agree with her, but she is off limits here.
You better agree with her, or she may take the Bonanza away from you. ;)
Post by: Little Joe on October 12, 2023, 04:41:51 PM
You better agree with her, or she may take the Bonanza away from you. ;)She can't. It's her Bonanza.
Post by: nddons on October 16, 2023, 02:30:57 PM
Started my instrument (re)training yesterday. 1.2 under the hood. After 20 years things came back pretty quickly. Documented the pitch / power settings for various climbs and descents. Then progressed to some rapid-fire altitude and/or heading changes. Glass is SO much easier to fly with than the old six-pack. But even so I'm glad I have the analog altitude and rate of climb indicators for quick reference. I still have to work on rapid interpretation and finding what I need to see quickly. Then not fixating. The heading and altitude bugs are super helpful. The 170 is less stable than a 172 so changing altitude / heading while programming the GPS means things go wonky in a hurry. Next flight in a week. Looking forward to it!I’m surprised the 170 is less stable than the 172. Don’t they have the same wing?
Post by: Little Joe on October 16, 2023, 02:43:28 PM
I’m surprised the 170 is less stable than the 172. Don’t they have the same wing?No, it's not the 170 that is less stable.
It is the people that fly 170s.
Post by: Lucifer on October 16, 2023, 03:56:35 PM
I’m surprised the 170 is less stable than the 172. Don’t they have the same wing?
Depends on which 170 model we’re talking about.
Post by: nddons on October 16, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No, it's not the 170 that is less stable.Lol.
It is the people that fly 170s.
I have about 125 tailwheel hours, and I respect anyone who regularly flies a TW airplane.
Post by: PilotSpin on October 17, 2023, 08:43:29 AM
I've been informed that I need to get off my ass and finish my instrument rating. About 20 years ago I was nearly done and in the "polishing" stage when my wife got very sick and my priorities changed. Some 16 years later I took the written again, got training lined up and then Covid. Two years later I took the written again, got an instructor lined up, and then he moved to Florida leaving no choices. I'm finally ready to go again.
So... do any of you have any experience with one of the accelerated instrument training programs? Total immersion for a couple weeks and just get it done. Or I can go the usual route with a couple flights a week and get it done that way.
Advice? Comments? Suggestions?
Not sure where you are in your instrument training but I would highly recommend an accelerated program. These guys were great to work with when I did mine. https://www.iflyifr.com/
Post by: Username on October 19, 2023, 06:56:39 AM
Second lesson was full of climbing and descending turns. 30 seconds of straight and level and then a 360 climbing or descending turn to the right or left, or a 90 degree turn to another cardinal heading. Another great confidence / skill builder.
And yes, I was pretty unstable after 1.5 of that. She said that the purpose was not only to get good at all the maneuvers but also to get used to fatigue and what that does to precision.
Post by: nddons on October 19, 2023, 02:50:50 PM
It depends on the model. The 170 and 170A (like mine) have a flat wing with no dihedral. The 170B and all 172s have 2.5 degrees. That makes them somewhat more self-stabilizing.Thanks for that understanding on the differences in models.
Second lesson was full of climbing and descending turns. 30 seconds of straight and level and then a 360 climbing or descending turn to the right or left, or a 90 degree turn to another cardinal heading. Another great confidence / skill builder.
And yes, I was pretty unstable after 1.5 of that. She said that the purpose was not only to get good at all the maneuvers but also to get used to fatigue and what that does to precision.
Sounds like you have a pretty wise instructor. I noticed my fatigue come out when it felt like I forgot how to land the Skyhawk after most instrument training lessons.
Post by: Anthony on October 19, 2023, 03:23:59 PM
Thanks for that understanding on the differences in models.
Sounds like you have a pretty wise instructor. I noticed my fatigue come out when it felt like I forgot how to land the Skyhawk after most instrument training lessons.
I thought 172s landed themselves. ;D
Post by: nddons on October 19, 2023, 03:58:31 PM
I thought 172s landed themselves. ;DIt’s called the “Land-O-Matic”, sir! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231019/d3a8eb47eb30d0a48946d9e4e0d86a7e.jpg)
Post by: Anthony on October 19, 2023, 06:49:22 PM
It’s called the “Land-O-Matic”, sir! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231019/d3a8eb47eb30d0a48946d9e4e0d86a7e.jpg)
Lol. Yeah...right.
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 05, 2023, 06:26:40 PM
I second this although do you have to have GPS now to fly IFR? I never got certified but I learned it back in the days before GPS, had a sim and we had a panel in our first plane before GPS was even a thing. God I’m old. Hell when I first flew people didn't even use headsets. It’s one reason I’m so fucking deaf now.
Last I remember you didn’t have to have it but if it was in your panel you had to know how to use it. I bet it’s required now, aren’t they dismantling all the old navigation aids? Except ILS glide slopes?
I do a lot of instrument training and GPS is not required. You’re correct Rush, if it’s in your plane you better know how to use it. However without GPS you’re extremely limited. I have one guy who owns an older C172 equipped with old nav radios including DME. All we can do are VOR holds, VOR intersection holds, VOR approaches, localizer and ILS approaches. No radar approaches nearby, BHM just decommished their radar approaches.
I’m not a big fan of accelerated but realize they’re a solution for people who are restricted for time.
Post by: Username on November 06, 2023, 05:40:29 AM
Post by: Username on November 15, 2023, 10:33:05 AM
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 15, 2023, 12:23:30 PM
Post by: Rush on November 15, 2023, 02:58:48 PM
Careful with the button pushing on GPS. Especially on missed approach. Some MAs have you climb to a certain altitude and/or heading before proceeding to the holding fix. For instance, fly runway heading until 1500’ then a left climbing turn to the fix. If you unsuspend before 1500’ the GPS will give you guidance directly to the holding fix and you might run into something like an antenna or terrain.
Yikes! See I knew those newfangled electronics would kill you.
Post by: Little Joe on November 15, 2023, 03:17:25 PM
Yikes! See I knew those newfangled electronics would kill you.Uh, no.
Over-reliance and misuse will kill you.
The electronics won't kill you any more than a gun will.
Post by: Rush on November 15, 2023, 03:42:10 PM
Uh, no.
Over-reliance and misuse will kill you.
The electronics won't kill you any more than a gun will.
Bah humbug. Get off my lawn!
Post by: Anthony on November 16, 2023, 04:33:57 AM
Careful with the button pushing on GPS. Especially on missed approach. Some MAs have you climb to a certain altitude and/or heading before proceeding to the holding fix. For instance, fly runway heading until 1500’ then a left climbing turn to the fix. If you unsuspend before 1500’ the GPS will give you guidance directly to the holding fix and you might run into something like an antenna or terrain.
That's my greatest fear with this stuff. Something to be said for a watch and mag compass. ;D
Post by: Little Joe on November 16, 2023, 05:51:34 AM
That's my greatest fear with this stuff. Something to be said for a watch and mag compass. ;DIt shouldn't be something to fear. On any missed approach, the controller will give you instructions for going missed, which you have to read back. Correctly. You should have already briefed yourself on the published MA so if it is different, then you automatically know not to use the GPS. Fortunately though, my GPS (Brittain) is so old that it can't do that anyway.
edit to add for Username, Studying the approach plates for every runway at every planned and alternate airport ahead of time will save you a lot of stress if you have to make changes to your plan. And by "study" I mean really study. Not just read them.
Post by: Username on November 16, 2023, 02:45:47 PM
edit to add for Username, Studying the approach plates for every runway at every planned and alternate airport ahead of time will save you a lot of stress if you have to make changes to your plan. And by "study" I mean really study. Not just read them.Agreed!! I'm working with both NOS and Jepp charts. It seems that NOS approach plates are a little less cluttered and easier to read in flight. Jepp airport diagrams are way better than NOS since they have all the information in one place and it's easier to digest that way. NOS you have to look around in other publications for alternate and departure issues. I hate paying for Jepp for just that.
And I see what you mean... get all planned for a runway and approach based on the winds and then they shift to something different and you're not all set up and have to scramble. At least I'm getting better at flying while looking elsewhere.
Now I'm trying to figure out where to mount the iPad with all the cool information. The other side of the plane stuck to the window is great for VFR but too far for close reading. Yoke mount is too close. No room on the left window. Blocks too much in the middle. Looking at kneeboard options. But i may have to bite the bullet and get a mini. Instructor has one, but I like being able to see the whole plate without panning and zooming.
Post by: nddons on November 16, 2023, 02:55:10 PM
Agreed!! I'm working with both NOS and Jepp charts. It seems that NOS approach plates are a little less cluttered and easier to read in flight. Jepp airport diagrams are way better than NOS since they have all the information in one place and it's easier to digest that way. NOS you have to look around in other publications for alternate and departure issues. I hate paying for Jepp for just that.You can see the whole plate with a mini. It sizes in ForeFlight for the field of view.
And I see what you mean... get all planned for a runway and approach based on the winds and then they shift to something different and you're not all set up and have to scramble. At least I'm getting better at flying while looking elsewhere.
Now I'm trying to figure out where to mount the iPad with all the cool information. The other side of the plane stuck to the window is great for VFR but too far for close reading. Yoke mount is too close. No room on the left window. Blocks too much in the middle. Looking at kneeboard options. But i may have to bite the bullet and get a mini. Instructor has one, but I like being able to see the whole plate without panning and zooming.
I have my instrument rating but did that in 2010 before ForeFlight was so prevalent. However I’d caution you about the head movement necessary to reference ForeFlight on your knee and then scanning instruments. Sounds like vertigo waiting to happen if you’re in the soup.
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 17, 2023, 04:41:56 AM
However I’d caution you about the head movement necessary to reference ForeFlight on your knee and then scanning instruments. Sounds like vertigo waiting to happen if you’re in the soup.
Not to mention staring down at an approach plate on a knee pad, even for 3-4 seconds, you’ll deviant off your heading and/or altitude. I see it a lot with my instrument students, oops, excuse, “learners”. 😏
Post by: Rush on November 17, 2023, 04:48:35 AM
Not to mention staring down at an approach plate on a knee pad, even for 3-4 seconds, you’ll deviant off your heading and/or altitude. I see it a lot with my instrument students, oops, excuse, “learners”. 😏
Wait… is “student” politically incorrect now?
Post by: nddons on November 17, 2023, 06:10:16 AM
Not to mention staring down at an approach plate on a knee pad, even for 3-4 seconds, you’ll deviant off your heading and/or altitude. I see it a lot with my instrument students, oops, excuse, “learners”.That’s why I went from those thick regional approach plate books to the loose leaf books so I could put the individual plate on the yoke with Cessna’s little clip. Less head movement.
Im not instrument current so I don’t even know if they have those loose leaf versions any more.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on November 17, 2023, 06:15:51 AM
Post by: Username on November 17, 2023, 06:45:39 AM
Wait… is “student” politically incorrect now?Of course "student" has the root word "stud" which isn't allowed. Although for me it is descriptive :)
Post by: Username on November 17, 2023, 06:50:19 AM
That’s why I went from those thick regional approach plate books to the loose leaf books so I could put the individual plate on the yoke with Cessna’s little clip. Less head movement.I used Jepp loose-leaf for the first iteration of my instrument training. It was handy taking the tissue-paper page out and clipping it to the yoke mount. But then it got trashed or blew out the door and lost and never found its way back into the binder. Updating pages was a real pain. I dreaded finding the orange envelopes in the mail.
Im not instrument current so I don’t even know if they have those loose leaf versions any more.
The yoke mount seems to be the best placement, but my yoke is the vintage thin circle thing instead of the modern rams-horn. It's not a good fit for the full-sized iPad.
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 17, 2023, 04:11:09 PM
That’s why I went from those thick regional approach plate books to the loose leaf books so I could put the individual plate on the yoke with Cessna’s little clip. Less head movement.
Im not instrument current so I don’t even know if they have those loose leaf versions any more.
I think they are no longer available.
Post by: Jim Logajan on November 17, 2023, 04:54:01 PM
I think they are no longer available.If you mean paper approach plates (among other paper charts) suitable for binders then they still seem to be available:
https://shop.jeppesen.com/All-Products/Paper-Charts/Jeppesen-IFR-Manual/IFR-Paper-Chart-Services/p/10012567_10011147_63376-62796-54888-50117 (https://shop.jeppesen.com/All-Products/Paper-Charts/Jeppesen-IFR-Manual/IFR-Paper-Chart-Services/p/10012567_10011147_63376-62796-54888-50117)
Post by: Lucifer on November 17, 2023, 06:42:35 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on November 17, 2023, 07:59:48 PM
You can download free charts on airnav.com and print them out.I'd forgotten they had those now. (Though they don't use the Jeppesen layout.)
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 18, 2023, 07:47:30 AM
If you mean paper approach plates (among other paper charts) suitable for binders then they still seem to be available:
https://shop.jeppesen.com/All-Products/Paper-Charts/Jeppesen-IFR-Manual/IFR-Paper-Chart-Services/p/10012567_10011147_63376-62796-54888-50117 (https://shop.jeppesen.com/All-Products/Paper-Charts/Jeppesen-IFR-Manual/IFR-Paper-Chart-Services/p/10012567_10011147_63376-62796-54888-50117)
Yikes! That price! Actually I was referring to guvment approach charts. I believe I looked at a couple suppliers and the guvment web site, and I think they’ve been discontinued.
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 18, 2023, 07:49:48 AM
Wait… is “student” politically incorrect now?
FAA change “student” pilot to learner about a year or two ago. Yet the Student Pilot Certificate has remained the same, not Learner Pilot lol.
Post by: Rush on November 18, 2023, 01:18:04 PM
FAA change “student” pilot to learner about a year or two ago. Yet the Student Pilot Certificate has remained the same, not Learner Pilot lol.
Why the hell do they do that? Random language changes for no reason?
Post by: Little Joe on November 18, 2023, 01:26:03 PM
Why the hell do they do that? Random language changes for no reason?Sometimes I can understand their rationalization, even if I don't agree with it, like changing "Notice to Airmen" to "Notice to Air Missions". I get their point, even if I think their point is stupid.
But I don't even get the point of changing "Student" to "Learner".
Post by: Jim Logajan on November 18, 2023, 01:59:30 PM
Sometimes I can understand their rationalization, even if I don't agree with it, like changing "Notice to Airmen" to "Notice to Air Missions". I get their point, even if I think their point is stupid.Found this:
But I don't even get the point of changing "Student" to "Learner".
https://www.faasafety.gov/files/events/WP/WP07/2016/WP0767847/acs_faq.pdf (https://www.faasafety.gov/files/events/WP/WP07/2016/WP0767847/acs_faq.pdf)
Why does the ACS mix the terms “learner” and “student pilot?”
The education and training industry has generally adopted the term “learner,” because it conveys recognition and respect for adults’ experience and motivation. We followed this convention in most instances. However, the ACS retains the term “student pilot” when it refers to certification activities involving an individual who is a student pilot within the meaning of 14 CFR part 61.
AOPA has this article: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/july/02/whats-behind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/july/02/whats-behind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner)
A few years back I read several different history books to fill in gaps in my knowledge. So was I being a student of history or a learner of history? The latter sounds wrong to my ears and seems to imply I was learning history for its own sake when I was really trying to arm myself with knowledge of how people acted in the past to better understand the present.
Post by: Rush on November 18, 2023, 02:27:12 PM
Found this:
https://www.faasafety.gov/files/events/WP/WP07/2016/WP0767847/acs_faq.pdf (https://www.faasafety.gov/files/events/WP/WP07/2016/WP0767847/acs_faq.pdf)
Why does the ACS mix the terms “learner” and “student pilot?”
The education and training industry has generally adopted the term “learner,” because it conveys recognition and respect for adults’ experience and motivation. We followed this convention in most instances. However, the ACS retains the term “student pilot” when it refers to certification activities involving an individual who is a student pilot within the meaning of 14 CFR part 61.
AOPA has this article: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/july/02/whats-behind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/july/02/whats-behind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner)
A few years back I read several different history books to fill in gaps in my knowledge. So was I being a student of history or a learner of history? The latter sounds wrong to my ears and seems to imply I was learning history for its own sake when I was really trying to arm myself with knowledge of how people acted in the past to better understand the present.
Seriously? Adults felt their “experience and motivation” wasn’t being recognized? Talk about a first world problem, JHCOAC. We’ve become a country full of pussies.
Post by: Bamaflyer on November 18, 2023, 03:19:45 PM
Sometimes I can understand their rationalization, even if I don't agree with it, like changing "Notice to Airmen" to "Notice to Air Missions". I get their point, even if I think their point is stupid.
But I don't even get the point of changing "Student" to "Learner".
Who the hell knows. Can’t leave well enough alone.
Post by: nddons on November 18, 2023, 08:47:13 PM
Seriously? Adults felt their “experience and motivation” wasn’t being recognized? Talk about a first world problem, JHCOAC. We’ve become a country full of pussies.Correct. And the otherwise adults in the FAA are catering to the fraction of a percent of people who claim to be hurt by any language other than the language from the woke altar.
Post by: Anthony on November 19, 2023, 03:06:26 AM
Correct. And the otherwise adults in the FAA are catering to the fraction of a percent of people who claim to be hurt by any language other than the language from the woke altar.
Which is silly and counterproductive. Idiots.
Post by: Rush on November 19, 2023, 04:26:12 AM
Correct. And the otherwise adults in the FAA are catering to the fraction of a percent of people who claim to be hurt by any language other than the language from the woke altar.
You mean the people at the agency tasked with air safety are getting paid by our tax dollars to sit around and come up with this crap? Is a newly minted pilot safer because he was a “learner” and not a “student”? Is he safer because his alleged “experience and motivation” were recognized?
I still don’t understand how “learner” has anything to do with recognizing I’m an adult with experience and motivation and “student” doesn’t. The definition of “student” is literally someone who studies something. I am a student of history. Nothing in that statement implies I am inexperienced and lack motivation.
These people are Nucking Futs.
Post by: Username on December 31, 2023, 11:23:55 AM
Moving right along. Precision and non-precision approaches are satisfactory. "The outcome of the maneuver was never seriously in doubt". Next we'll add in talking to approach while doing everything else. That should not be much of an issue as I've been doing flight following and controlled airports for a while now. And we've been using her as controller during training, emphasizing proper phrasing and such. Everything but the PTT. We'll see how it works in real life.
Did a practice instrument written. 75%. ARG! Passing, but I forgot a lot from the last time I studied over two years ago. Mostly the stuff that is technical but never useful in real life. Time to hit the books again.
I have both Jepp and NOS charts on the iPad. I find the NOS charts easier to use as they are way less cluttered than the Jepps. The only advantage to the Jepps is on the airport data. Everything is on one page vs. NOS you have to look around to find everything.
Post by: Rush on December 31, 2023, 12:08:50 PM
Post by: Username on February 03, 2024, 08:38:54 AM
But in the downtime I did some studying and took the instrument written test yesterday. Missed two for a 97%. Once again I WAY overstudied.
Post by: Rush on February 03, 2024, 08:55:49 AM
So... an update. The plane is out of annual. The weather has been horrible with fog, low clouds, and single digit high temps so having the plane down hasn't been a problem. Plus there's a lot of snow piled up against the hangar doors so I couldn't get it back in anyway. Got a lot of "nice to do" non critical things done. And some good debugging. The magnetic compass has been 30 degrees off ever since the new avionics. When they did the pitot static check they noted that everything was installed with steel screws instead of the normal brass screws. And now the compass is right on. Sheesh. Not a critical item, but one of those an inspector would note as being out of spec and therefore not airworthy. I think it has to be +/- 10 degrees.
But in the downtime I did some studying and took the instrument written test yesterday. Missed two for a 97%. Once again I WAY overstudied.
You couldn’t get it back in? I was expecting you to say you couldn’t get it out of the hangar. You mean the poor thing is sitting outside?
Congrats on the test score. Nothing wrong with over studying.
Post by: Username on February 03, 2024, 10:32:30 AM
You couldn’t get it back in? I was expecting you to say you couldn’t get it out of the hangar. You mean the poor thing is sitting outside?Yep. Took the plane out and over to maint's heated hangar around the end of December. Then we had a HUGE dump of snow. Then a bunch slid off the roof against the door. About four feet of snow and ice. The airport plows did a good job on the taxiway and the ramp leading to the middle door, but the other doors were blocked solid. The plane was all happy sitting in their heated hangar while they worked on it. Once they got done, and a couple of planes that were for parts out from in front of it, I got to move it to a less great temporary hangar. We have a week or so in the 40s so that should be enough to clear the doors so she can come home. Maybe even nice enough weather to go slip the surly bonds of Earth!
Congrats on the test score. Nothing wrong with over studying.
Post by: Username on February 29, 2024, 12:32:44 PM
Post by: Username on April 30, 2024, 09:35:27 AM
Best part was the end of a VOR approach... Foggles off, get aligned, landing configuration, slow down. 10 knot crosswind. A King Air waiting for takeoff watching my every move. Landed a three point squeaker. Instructor said, "THAT'S how you tailwheel!". Felt really good.