PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on January 27, 2019, 03:13:41 PM
-
Wow. It's getting worse and worse, living in an age where mindless technology spies on us and records us (inaccurately) and a private company in is bed with government so they both can profit off us, and if we are innocent, almost impossible to fight. This was a law professor and look what a convoluted mess he had to navigate to fight this thing.
Pee test companies are doing the same thing; pushing their tests onto government and companies, and trying to get laws passed mandating them. There are probably thousands of other examples. This sort of thing is what makes my liberal brother hate private market "capitalism" except the idiot cannot distinguish between private companies fairly doing business and private companies in bed with government to use the force of law to soak you and me for our money.
-
Many municipalities now require that water heaters must be installed by a “licensed professional” (plumber). Gee, wonder who was behind getting that law passed.
That’s just one small example. There are more and more laws coming on the books where private industry teams up with government to force people to do business with them.
-
Many municipalities now require that water heaters must be installed by a “licensed professional” (plumber). Gee, wonder who was behind getting that law passed.
That’s just one small example. There are more and more laws coming on the books where private industry teams up with government to force people to do business with them.
!!!!! A homeowner can no longer install their own water heater? Lord help us.
-
Our city requires a permit for installing a replacement door. A FREEEEEEKIN' REPLACEMENT DOOR! Not a new one, not a wider one, a larger one, the same size!
-
Our city requires a permit for installing a replacement door. A FREEEEEEKIN' REPLACEMENT DOOR! Not a new one, not a wider one, a larger one, the same size!
Don't ask, don't tell?
-
Our city requires a permit for installing a replacement door. A FREEEEEEKIN' REPLACEMENT DOOR! Not a new one, not a wider one, a larger one, the same size!
Please tell me that is not in Texas.
-
The guy keeps on about an owner not being responsible for what happens when they loan their car out. Must be a Michigan thing because in NC, the owner is absolutely responsible for "anonymous" crimes committed by a driver when the driver cannot be identified. Even if you can prove you were elsewhere, state law deems that you were driving. One of the few defenses is if you have reported your car stolen or you can show that you sold it.
But otherwise, I agree. Camera tickets are civil matters and most people settle them when the cities don't have evidence against them. At least in NC, cities themselves do not have much authority to make a criminal law. The authority rests with the state. A city can certainly use state law to maintain order, but they can't criminalize action. So almost anything coming from a city is a civil matter unless the state has explicitly granted criminal authority to the city.
-
The guy keeps on about an owner not being responsible for what happens when they loan their car out. Must be a Michigan thing because in NC, the owner is absolutely responsible for "anonymous" crimes committed by a driver when the driver cannot be identified. Even if you can prove you were elsewhere, state law deems that you were driving. One of the few defenses is if you have reported your car stolen or you can show that you sold it.
But otherwise, I agree. Camera tickets are civil matters and most people settle them when the cities don't have evidence against them. At least in NC, cities themselves do not have much authority to make a criminal law. The authority rests with the state. A city can certainly use state law to maintain order, but they can't criminalize action. So almost anything coming from a city is a civil matter unless the state has explicitly granted criminal authority to the city.
I did not know that about North Carolina! I will tell my sister forthwith. My brother asked if he could fly up and use her car to drive around in, and she was hesitant, didn't like the idea. Now I can tell her that her gut was right. It's a 4 hour drive, but now that his wife is a flight attendant he can fly for free, so he figures he would save on gas and wear on his car and just fly up, get HER to pick him up at the airport and then drive around her car. He's such a tightwad.
-
I did not know that about North Carolina! I will tell my sister forthwith. My brother asked if he could fly up and use her car to drive around in, and she was hesitant, didn't like the idea. Now I can tell her that her gut was right. It's a 4 hour drive, but now that his wife is a flight attendant he can fly for free, so he figures he would save on gas and wear on his car and just fly up, get HER to pick him up at the airport and then drive around her car. He's such a tightwad.
Depends on the purpose of his trip. It is illegal and against airline policy to use free employee travel in pursuit of a business. He would risk legal consequences and his wife getting fired.
-
Depends on the purpose of his trip. It is illegal and against airline policy to use free employee travel in pursuit of a business. He would risk legal consequences and his wife getting fired.
No business, it's a strictly personal visit.
-
I'm still bitter, clinging to my guns, and religion (which is more guns).
-
Please tell me that is not in Texas.
.
Denton, TX.
-
Please tell me that is not in Texas.
I'll tell you what is in Texas...
A few years ago I got a nice letter from the city of Irving that I ran a redlight one Sunday morning when there was no traffic. The picture they sent clearly shows me with the brake lights on and getting ready to make a right turn. They had a link to a video I could watch, but didn't bother. They also has self addressed envelope that I could use to send my fine in. It was addressed to a law firm in Ohio.
I did some research and discovered that the Texas legislature pretty much put the cabosh on those cameras. Although municipalities could keep their cameras and send out the fines, they couldn't report anything to the DMV (no license or registration action allowed) and they couldn't report it to credit bureaus or insurance companies. In essence, paying the fine was 100% voluntary. So, I didn't bother paying.
Every now and then I still get a notice from that law firm in Ohio telling my that I'm delinquent on paying that fine. Wish I had a fire place so I could use those nice letters for kindling. I've had zero issues with my out of state license or registration.
Oh, and I haven't staying in Irving since. Fuck 'em!!!
-
I'll tell you what is in Texas...
A few years ago I got a nice letter from the city of Irving that I ran a redlight one Sunday morning when there was no traffic. The picture they sent clearly shows me with the brake lights on and getting ready to make a right turn. They had a link to a video I could watch, but didn't bother. They also has self addressed envelope that I could use to send my fine in. It was addressed to a law firm in Ohio.
I did some research and discovered that the Texas legislature pretty much put the cabosh on those cameras. Although municipalities could keep their cameras and send out the fines, they couldn't report anything to the DMV (no license or registration action allowed) and they couldn't report it to credit bureaus or insurance companies. In essence, paying the fine was 100% voluntary. So, I didn't bother paying.
Every now and then I still get a notice from that law firm in Ohio telling my that I'm delinquent on paying that fine. Wish I had a fire place so I could use those nice letters for kindling. I've had zero issues with my out of state license or registration.
Oh, and I haven't staying in Irving since. Fuck 'em!!!
Wow. There is something very unfair about getting letters from lawyers in Ohio over something that should only be between you and the local cop who actually sees you run a red light in real life.
-
We had those red light cameras for awhile. No one liked them, and I think the City fathers picked up on the fact that the ill will they were generating wasn't worth the revenue. They're gone.
I never could figure out how these things could proliferate. Had they remained I might have run for office as the anti-red light camera candidate. That would have been my one issue, and I might have even won. Folks really have those things, and for really good reason.
I can't figure out how speed cameras ever came into use in Europe. The first time they got used someone should have run as the anti speed camera candidate. Everyone hates those things so much I can't figure out how candidate like that can loose.
-
We had those red light cameras for awhile. No one liked them, and I think the City fathers picked up on the fact that the ill will they were generating wasn't worth the revenue. They're gone.
I never could figure out how these things could proliferate. Had they remained I might have run for office as the anti-red light camera candidate. That would have been my one issue, and I might have even won. Folks really have those things, and for really good reason.
I can't figure out how speed cameras ever came into use in Europe. The first time they got used someone should have run as the anti speed camera candidate. Everyone hates those things so much I can't figure out how candidate like that can loose.
I guess they proliferate when new technology comes along that there are no restrictions on because it didn't ever exist before, somebody is sure to exploit it for money, then we have to go back and try to shut the barn door. Same with my thread on body cams. Only when new stuff starts getting exploited this much do we realize we've unleashed a new evil on ourselves.
We've had cameras and recording devices for a long time but what's new is the massive data collection and processing ability. It's automated enough now that it is economically efficient to farm money on a mass scale. You no longer need to pay a human to manually watch hours of video and type up an invoice. We got a bill for something we didn't do and it turned out the computer misread the photo of the license plate. It was blurry but you could see one digit was off from our plate number. The machine misread it but when I finally got a human to look at it they said, oh yes you are right, and canceled the bill.
-
We had those red light cameras for awhile. No one liked them, and I think the City fathers picked up on the fact that the ill will they were generating wasn't worth the revenue. They're gone.
I never could figure out how these things could proliferate. Had they remained I might have run for office as the anti-red light camera candidate. That would have been my one issue, and I might have even won. Folks really have those things, and for really good reason.
I can't figure out how speed cameras ever came into use in Europe. The first time they got used someone should have run as the anti speed camera candidate. Everyone hates those things so much I can't figure out how candidate like that can loose.
When I lived in Charlotte they got those red light cameras. The result was that rear-end accidents exploded, because people who used to move through safely on a yellow started to stop, changing all human behavior on the following cars. They were talking about getting rid of them when I left in 2006, but don’t know if that ever happened. Probably not. Municipalities like money.
-
I guess I'm the only one that likes them.
Has anyone else here had a close friend T-Boned by a red light runner? One of my best friends had that happen to him in 1971. He never did walk again. He collected a boat load of insurance money, but he was bitter until the day he died that the asshole only got a slap on the wrist.
And I'm sorry, but if anyone rear-ends someone that stops for a red light, they should be arrested and fined too. But a rear end collision is nowhere near as bad as a t-bone.
-
I guess I'm the only one that likes them.
Has anyone else here had a close friend T-Boned by a red light runner? One of my best friends had that happen to him in 1971. He never did walk again. He collected a boat load of insurance money, but he was bitter until the day he died that the asshole only got a slap on the wrist.
And I'm sorry, but if anyone rear-ends someone that stops for a red light, they should be arrested and fined too. But a rear end collision is nowhere near as bad as a t-bone.
You contend a red light camera would have prevented that accident?
-
The town of Cary had the cameras and got rid of them. They really didn’t make that much money off them.
Raleigh still has them. IMO, they are dangerous. The occurrence of accidents has increased at many of the intersections where they are in use.
-
I guess I'm the only one that likes them.
Has anyone else here had a close friend T-Boned by a red light runner? One of my best friends had that happen to him in 1971. He never did walk again. He collected a boat load of insurance money, but he was bitter until the day he died that the asshole only got a slap on the wrist.
And I'm sorry, but if anyone rear-ends someone that stops for a red light, they should be arrested and fined too. But a rear end collision is nowhere near as bad as a t-bone.
That argument doesn't fly. Rear ends can also cause permanently incapacitating injuries, and if you have many more rear ends than the number of t-bones you prevent, you could end up with no safety gain at all. In fact, that's exactly what this study found:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/
Furthermore, you can reduce accidents by lengthening the time of the yellow light. Municipalities were shortening the yellow, just so they could catch more red light runners. That's pure evil.
https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/
Short yellow light times at intersections have been shown to increase the number of traffic violations and accidents. Conversely, increasing the yellow light duration can dramatically reduce red-light violations at an intersection.
Some local governments have ignored the safety benefit of increasing the yellow light time and decided to install red-light cameras, shorten the yellow light duration, and collect the profits instead.
-
Traffic laws are more about revenue than they are about safety.
-
My antipathy for red light cameras is that the companies that contract them on behalf of municipalities are in it for profit. They take a HUGE cut fo the fines.
One thing I've noticed where they are installed... the length of the yellow light ALWAYS seems to be dramatically shortened as soon as the cameras show up. If the municipality had any interest in safety that would not be the case.
-
My antipathy for red light cameras is that the companies that contract them on behalf of municipalities are in it for profit. They take a HUGE cut fo the fines.
One thing I've noticed where they are installed... the length of the yellow light ALWAYS seems to be dramatically shortened as soon as the cameras show up. If the municipality had any interest in safety that would not be the case.
As you know, it is not about safety it is about REVENUE. Government, and the judicial system have become a for profit entity.
-
When I lived in Charlotte they got those red light cameras. The result was that rear-end accidents exploded, because people who used to move through safely on a yellow started to stop, changing all human behavior on the following cars. They were talking about getting rid of them when I left in 2006, but don’t know if that ever happened. Probably not.
Municipalities like money.
So do body shops.
-
We had those red light cameras for awhile. No one liked them, and I think the City fathers picked up on the fact that the ill will they were generating wasn't worth the revenue. They're gone.
I never could figure out how these things could proliferate. Had they remained I might have run for office as the anti-red light camera candidate. That would have been my one issue, and I might have even won. Folks really have those things, and for really good reason.
I can't figure out how speed cameras ever came into use in Europe. The first time they got used someone should have run as the anti speed camera candidate. Everyone hates those things so much I can't figure out how candidate like that can loose.
Folks, we have a first!
Me and Steingar actually agree on something!!!
:D
-
The fact that automata become pofit making opportunities for minicipalities and corporate America is not their biggest drawback by far.
They’re biggest drawback is they violate a core pillar of our jurisprudence. Under our system of justice anyone is entitled to cross examine their accuser. Even if their accuser is the State, the State has to send their representative (usually the aresting officer) for cross examination. You can’t cross examine a robot. And that to me is th biggest reason why automata should not be issuing citations in the CONUS.
-
That argument doesn't fly. Rear ends can also cause permanently incapacitating injuries, and if you have many more rear ends than the number of t-bones you prevent, you could end up with no safety gain at all. In fact, that's exactly what this study found:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/
Furthermore, you can reduce accidents by lengthening the time of the yellow light. Municipalities were shortening the yellow, just so they could catch more red light runners. That's pure evil.
https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/
That’s exactly right. That was discovered in Charlotte. Disgusting.
-
The town of Cary had the cameras and got rid of them. They really didn’t make that much money off them.
Raleigh still has them. IMO, they are dangerous. The occurrence of accidents has increased at many of the intersections where they are in use.
Cary - is it still called the “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees”? Ha.
-
Cary - is it still called the “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees”? Ha.
The South will rise again!
Oh yeah, Yankees suck, and I am one!
-
Cary - is it still called the “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees”? Ha.
Yes. Although they aren't contained, they're spreading like...well, Yankees.
-
The fact that automata become pofit making opportunities for minicipalities and corporate America is not their biggest drawback by far.
They’re biggest drawback is they violate a core pillar of our jurisprudence. Under our system of justice anyone is entitled to cross examine their accuser. Even if their accuser is the State, the State has to send their representative (usually the aresting officer) for cross examination. You can’t cross examine a robot. And that to me is th biggest reason why automata should not be issuing citations in the CONUS.
I think that is why they are not enforceable and cannot affect your driving record. I’m not a lawyer, but I believe that’s the case across jurisdictions.
I got a red light speeding ticket in Kentucky once, accompanied by a very threatening-sounding letter. I wasn’t going to pay it, but my wife went ahead and paid it out of fear. I was pissed. I wanted to fight it. Because you’re right, there was virtually no appeal process. They rely on the sheeple to just pay the fine.
-
Cary - is it still called the “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees”? Ha.
Yes. And Clayton is "Cary-Like Area Yankees are Trying Out Now".
-
That’s exactly right. That was discovered in Charlotte. Disgusting.
Yep, I was agreeing with you until I found that. It's plain that if they shorten the yellow light they are making it more dangerous for all types of accidents. That's unconscionable, I can't believe they deliberately and knowingly sacrifice safety for the sake of making money. Totally corrupt.
-
Yep, I was agreeing with you until I found that. It's plain that if they shorten the yellow light they are making it more dangerous for all types of accidents. That's unconscionable, I can't believe they deliberately and knowingly sacrifice safety for the sake of making money. Totally corrupt.
The majority of traffic "safety" laws now are all about generating income. If they were really about safety, the consequences would be geared toward better driver education rather than how to send in your payment (fine).
-
Yep, I was agreeing with you until I found that. It's plain that if they shorten the yellow light they are making it more dangerous for all types of accidents. That's unconscionable, I can't believe they deliberately and knowingly sacrifice safety for the sake of making money. Totally corrupt.
They allow inner city Blacks to kill each other in very large numbers, and their only response is to try to take the rights away of the law abiding. We now have a FOR PROFIT law enforcement, and judicial system that's only goal is to make money, and grow. Just like the rest of government.
You should see how large, and well equipped my township police force is currently. New SUV's, vans, cars, MRAP, swat. Only my basement has more stuff. Don't tell anyone. :)
-
Yep, I was agreeing with you until I found that. It's plain that if they shorten the yellow light they are making it more dangerous for all types of accidents. That's unconscionable, I can't believe they deliberately and knowingly sacrifice safety for the sake of making money. Totally corrupt.
Now that they are having to pull most of the red light cameras out, what I have noticed them doing here, and some other places, is prolonging the time between when one side gets a red light, and the other side gets a green light. I can be sitting at a red light and see that the opposing green traffic light turns yellow, then red, and it is another two or three seconds before my light turns green. It is frustrating because so many of the lights already seem programmed to impede traffic, but at least that practice has a chance of slowing down the rate of T-Bones. At least until everyone figures out they have an extra few seconds to run that red.
-
The fact that automata become pofit making opportunities for minicipalities and corporate America is not their biggest drawback by far.
They’re biggest drawback is they violate a core pillar of our jurisprudence. Under our system of justice anyone is entitled to cross examine their accuser. Even if their accuser is the State, the State has to send their representative (usually the aresting officer) for cross examination. You can’t cross examine a robot. And that to me is th biggest reason why automata should not be issuing citations in the CONUS.
That is exactly my understanding also.