Post by: JeffDG on August 04, 2016, 07:17:48 AM
Post by: Gary on August 04, 2016, 06:18:26 PM
Post by: JeffDG on August 05, 2016, 05:15:33 AM
This should be a sticky.I'm sure I will have many occasions to refer back to it.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 05, 2016, 05:20:34 AM
Post by: JeffDG on August 05, 2016, 06:15:38 AM
don't forget all the democrats that crossed over during the primaries.They've gotten exactly what they wanted, the only candidate Hillary can beat.
Post by: nddons on August 05, 2016, 06:56:02 AM
don't forget all the democrats that crossed over during the primaries.
They've gotten exactly what they wanted, the only candidate Hillary can beat.Thank you, Reince Priebus, for refusing even the most modest proposal by the conservatives at the convention about restricting the first large primaries to only closed states.
Post by: Lucifer on August 05, 2016, 11:56:09 AM
Who is the actual failure here?
Post by: JeffDG on August 05, 2016, 12:11:56 PM
So, once again, why didn't the Republicans get behind a candidate and support him/her this time? Where were all these "Republicans" during the primaries? Why couldn't they get a "preferred" candidate nominated?Low information Trumpkins who thought their guy would "pivot" to become a less deranged version of himself after the nomination. Thanks.
Who is the actual failure here?
Also, 12m Democrats who voted for Donnie in the primaries (http://www.redstate.com/diary/creinstein/2016/06/25/12-million-democrats-voted-republican-primaries/) and are heading back home to Mama Hillary for the general. Without them, Donnie doesn't crack the top 10 in the R primaries.
Post by: Steingar on August 05, 2016, 01:06:26 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 05, 2016, 01:21:12 PM
The problem with Democracy is the electorate often gets exactly what it deserves.
That's not what I asked. Those complaining about Trump are trying to blame the voters and God only knows what else, but yet they can't answer why a more "suitable"(their standards) candidate could get nominated.
There were 16 candidates and a few were quit good. Why couldn't they get support (votes) to further their cause? Where was the RNC the past 4 years in getting ready for this election?
From what I saw it appeared the RNC wanted Jeb to be their guy, yet he flamed out after spending millions.
Post by: JeffDG on August 05, 2016, 01:22:43 PM
That's not what I asked. Those complaining about Trump are trying to blame the voters and God only knows what else, but yet they can't answer why a more "suitable"(their standards) candidate could get nominated.The 16 other candidates were running against 12m Democrats who crossed over for the purpose of nominating the weakest possible candidate for the Republicans. Thanks!
There were 16 candidates and a few were quit good. Why couldn't they get support (votes) to further their cause? Where was the RNC the past 4 years in getting ready for this election?
From what I saw it appeared the RNC wanted Jeb to be their guy, yet he flamed out after spending millions.
Post by: Steingar on August 05, 2016, 02:40:32 PM
The 16 other candidates were running against 12m Democrats who crossed over for the purpose of nominating the weakest possible candidate for the Republicans. Thanks!
Given that you cite a number, can you offer some proof of this allegation? I thought Trump was nominated by the GOP voters because he clearly addressed the GOP's voters, lower income white people, in a way other Republicans weren't. I don't think the pro-rich people/trickle down nonsense plays anymore.
Post by: JeffDG on August 05, 2016, 08:23:57 PM
Given that you cite a number, can you offer some proof of this allegation? I thought Trump was nominated by the GOP voters because he clearly addressed the GOP's voters, lower income white people, in a way other Republicans weren't. I don't think the pro-rich people/trickle down nonsense plays anymore.Look above, linked to article that laid out foundation.
Post by: Little Joe on August 06, 2016, 03:48:38 AM
You Asked for This (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/434906/pre-planning-my-i-told-you-so)Using that same logic Jeff, then every American voter asked for Obama. But that just ain't so. I didn't choose Trump over a dozen solid conservatives. I chose him over Cruz. And I will choose him over Hillary.
Post by: LevelWing on August 06, 2016, 06:15:19 AM
That's not what I asked. Those complaining about Trump are trying to blame the voters and God only knows what else, but yet they can't answer why a more "suitable"(their standards) candidate could get nominated.I've answered this before. There are several reasons why Trump won the nomination. The main reason (in my opinion) was because of how the RNC and GOP have handled themselves in recent years (read: doing nothing constructive for the party or the people who comprise it) combined with the anger and contempt that Trump showed towards politics as usual and the establishment, it resonated. People were energized when they heard his "plain speak". He was voicing the anger and frustration that everyone had been feeling and so it was natural to gravitate towards him. This was a year of outsiders as a whole (Sanders, Cruz and Trump). The problem was that Trump was the wrong person to be the voice because he isn't conservative and he isn't Republican. No matter how many times he flipped positions, it didn't matter to the voters because he kept saying the things they liked hearing. I've said it before and I believe it still that Trump was the angry vote, but not necessarily the right vote.
There were 16 candidates and a few were quit good. Why couldn't they get support (votes) to further their cause? Where was the RNC the past 4 years in getting ready for this election?
From what I saw it appeared the RNC wanted Jeb to be their guy, yet he flamed out after spending millions.
There isn't just one reason why Trump won the nomination but I think that was probably the largest. Now we have a moderate (at best) "Republican" running against a Democrat who had to move further and further left to beat Sanders. Neither are good options, but they are the two options from each of the largest parties. There were other options in the Republican party who were far more suited to be the Republican candidate but their messages just didn't resonate the way Trump's did. I think Cruz would've had a better shot if he had run a better campaign, but he didn't and this is where we're at.
Post by: Lucifer on August 06, 2016, 06:29:52 AM
I've answered this before. There are several reasons why Trump won the nomination. The main reason (in my opinion) was because of how the RNC and GOP have handled themselves in recent years (read: doing nothing constructive for the party or the people who comprise it) combined with the anger and contempt that Trump showed towards politics as usual and the establishment, it resonated. People were energized when they heard his "plain speak". He was voicing the anger and frustration that everyone had been feeling and so it was natural to gravitate towards him. This was a year of outsiders as a whole (Sanders, Cruz and Trump). The problem was that Trump was the wrong person to be the voice because he isn't conservative and he isn't Republican. No matter how many times he flipped positions, it didn't matter to the voters because he kept saying the things they liked hearing. I've said it before and I believe it still that Trump was the angry vote, but not necessarily the right vote.
There isn't just one reason why Trump won the nomination but I think that was probably the largest. Now we have a moderate (at best) "Republican" running against a Democrat who had to move further and further left to beat Sanders. Neither are good options, but they are the two options from each of the largest parties. There were other options in the Republican party who were far more suited to be the Republican candidate but their messages just didn't resonate the way Trump's did. I think Cruz would've had a better shot if he had run a better campaign, but he didn't and this is where we're at.
i don't disagree.
And it's not that the Republicans didn't see this coming, their arrogance got in the way.
Post by: bflynn on August 06, 2016, 09:56:45 AM
If you remove every dark blue state from the primary, Trump loses. I'm not suggesting doing that and since I am not a member of the GOP I really cannot. It is an obserrvation that Trump won based on a lot of states he won't win again.
Post by: Lucifer on August 06, 2016, 10:27:24 AM
The reason Trump won is that there were so many other candidates who split the rest of the vote. He doesn't have a majority of the GOP supporting him, he had no one else to split support with. Additionally, he is a blue state candidate, he had the most support in the states that the GOP will not win in November.
If you remove every dark blue state from the primary, Trump loses. I'm not suggesting doing that and since I am not a member of the GOP I really cannot. It is an obserrvation that Trump won based on a lot of states he won't win again.
I believe the reason Trump won is because the others message just said "Elect me and expect more of the same". None of the others could get a message across that resonated with the voters. Couple that with a GOP that for the past 8 years made lots of promises and failed to deliver, and a Republican led House and Senate that gave in to all of Obama's demands and lets him run amuck.
The GOP has become so beholden to the donor class that they shut out the voters and the majority of the candidates are also beholden to their donors, hence the same message.
Post by: JeffDG on August 06, 2016, 03:07:17 PM
I believe the reason Trump won is because the others message just said "Elect me and expect more of the same".Nope, he won because 12m Democrats decided to select the weakest possible opponent for their candidate.
Post by: Number7 on August 08, 2016, 08:34:30 AM
Nope, he won because 12m Democrats decided to select the weakest possible opponent for their candidate.... because they all knew the DNC would stop at nothing to mnake sure the weakest possible progressive criminal was going to be their nominee and needed to tilt the playing field.
Post by: JeffDG on August 08, 2016, 08:54:09 AM
... because they all knew the DNC would stop at nothing to mnake sure the weakest possible progressive criminal was going to be their nominee and needed to tilt the playing field.Can't disagree with you there. The fact remains, they accomplished that goal quite effectively.