PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on July 21, 2016, 09:14:37 AM
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But we already knew that...
http://yournewswire.com/declassified-cia-document-reveals-iraq-war-had-zero-justification/
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That the Iraqi war was an unjustified exsanguination of the public coffers in a fiasco of Shakespearian proportions is hardly news.
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Hillary, John Kerry and most of the Democrats voted for it.
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But we already knew that...
http://yournewswire.com/declassified-cia-document-reveals-iraq-war-had-zero-justification/
At this point, what difference does it make?
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At this point, what difference does it make?
Break the law you should go to jail.
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That the Iraqi war was an unjustified exsanguination of the public coffers in a fiasco of Shakespearian proportions is hardly news.
The Iraq conflict was mostly about a US President finally refusing to allow Saddam Hussein to violate sanctions put in place after he invaded Kuwait and got his dick cut off for it. It did spiral into a long drawn out conflict but that was mostly because the Military Industrial Complex loves conflicts that never end so they can sell more bombs. LBJ was the father of that move.
The Kuwait war on our part was about the continued free flow of middle eastern oil at market prices. A good business decision which democrats wouldn't understand because they only think in terms of things they can whine about, make money off of, and use to gin up votes.
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Yeah, a lot of people knew it was a damn lie back then. A lot of people couldn't prove it, but knew the story was rotten. Not a lot anybody could do though, the plan was in motion and there was no stopping it. We were going to transform the Middle East into a thriving, modern democratic region and we would reap the profits later.
Many people knew the plan to transform the Middle East was a really bad one and they said so, but a positive short term future sounds more attractive than a negative long term future, so the experts in the Middle East who actually new a thing or two about Islam and the people living in the region, were drown out. We were warned the Middle East was a tinder box and we were playing with matches, but we ignored, republicans and democrats alike.
The "doom sayers" are all on record. I remember hearing and reading them well back then. The doom sayers were all correct in their analysis. Al Queda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban and countless others, many we don't even know yet, are all result of our meddling. Our Shock and Awe, occupation and continued killing in the region has given these groups power.
I too am guilty as I believed the transformation plan actually might work and voted for Bush the second time as well. I was wrong. I admit it. As a country we need to admit it and adjust our strategy in dealing with the Middle East. Get out and stay out, IMO is the best thing now. Stop thinking we can fix it and that we know best.
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Yeah, a lot of people knew it was a damn lie back then. A lot of people couldn't prove it, but knew the story was rotten. Not a lot anybody could do though, the plan was in motion and there was no stopping it. We were going to transform the Middle East into a thriving, modern democratic region and we would reap the profits later.
Many people knew the plan to transform the Middle East was a really bad one and they said so, but a positive short term future sounds more attractive than a negative long term future, so the experts in the Middle East who actually new a thing or two about Islam and the people living in the region, were drown out. We were warned the Middle East was a tinder box and we were playing with matches, but we ignored, republicans and democrats alike.
The "doom sayers" are all on record. I remember hearing and reading them well back then. The doom sayers were all correct in their analysis. Al Queda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban and countless others, many we don't even know yet, are all result of our meddling. Our Shock and Awe, occupation and continued killing in the region has given these groups power.
I too am guilty as I believed the transformation plan actually might work and voted for Bush the second time as well. I was wrong. I admit it. As a country we need to admit it and adjust our strategy in dealing with the Middle East. Get out and stay out, IMO is the best thing now. Stop thinking we can fix it and that we know best.
Congress, and the Democrats voted for the war, not just Bush. The USA didn't create Islamic Terrorism.
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Yep, all the violence and evil in the middle east is the fault of the USA
::)
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Yeah, a lot of people knew it was a damn lie back then. A lot of people couldn't prove it, but knew the story was rotten. Not a lot anybody could do though, the plan was in motion and there was no stopping it. We were going to transform the Middle East into a thriving, modern democratic region and we would reap the profits later.
Many people knew the plan to transform the Middle East was a really bad one and they said so, but a positive short term future sounds more attractive than a negative long term future, so the experts in the Middle East who actually new a thing or two about Islam and the people living in the region, were drown out. We were warned the Middle East was a tinder box and we were playing with matches, but we ignored, republicans and democrats alike.
The "doom sayers" are all on record. I remember hearing and reading them well back then. The doom sayers were all correct in their analysis. Al Queda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban and countless others, many we don't even know yet, are all result of our meddling. Our Shock and Awe, occupation and continued killing in the region has given these groups power.
I too am guilty as I believed the transformation plan actually might work and voted for Bush the second time as well. I was wrong. I admit it. As a country we need to admit it and adjust our strategy in dealing with the Middle East. Get out and stay out, IMO is the best thing now. Stop thinking we can fix it and that we know best.
Except Obama and Hillary doubled down with the Arab Spring. Now we get soldiers killed with ho apparent goal in place.
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Now we get soldiers killed with ho apparent goal in place.
interesting typo
;D
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Odd the timing of something whose responsibility has moved far beyond the initial decisions and now lie with the current failure in chief and his hand picked secretary of state that just happens to be falling in the polls.
I guess the Obama doctrine of "Blame Bush' is alive and well.
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At the time there was conflicting intelligence. One set of intelligence was chosen to be believed. It turned out to be wrong.
What's the question?
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At the time there was conflicting intelligence. One set of intelligence was chosen to be believed. It turned out to be wrong.
What's the question?
There wasn't conflicting intel. What the American Public and Congress was being told were all manufactured stories.
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There wasn't conflicting intel. What the American Public and Congress was being told were all manufactured stories.
You're wrong and worse, closed minded about it.
There were multiple intelligence assessments which said opposite things, including some that came from other countries. I believe the one that was used came from Britain and was weighted more heavily because it was believed that British intel in the region was stronger than our own - we were suffering from a FISA hangover from the changes made during the Clinton years and we did not trust our own intelligence.
That the intelligence wound up to be wrong is hardly news today.
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You're wrong and worse, closed minded about it.
There were multiple intelligence assessments which said opposite things, including some that came from other countries. I believe the one that was used came from Britain and was weighted more heavily because it was believed that British intel in the region was stronger than our own - we were suffering from a FISA hangover from the changes made during the Clinton years and we did not trust our own intelligence.
That the intelligence wound up to be wrong is hardly news today.
How could intelligence be reliable and wrong simultaneously? Remember now, I was on Active Duty during 9/11, I might know a thing or two about our GWOT Intel and threat assessments.
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Correction - It was believed to be reliable. It wasn't actually reliable.
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How could intelligence be reliable and wrong simultaneously? Remember now, I was on Active Duty during 9/11, I might know a thing or two about our GWOT Intel and threat assessments.
you wouldn't be the only person in the world that knows a thing or two about the GWOT and threat assessemnts.
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Correction - It was believed to be reliable. It wasn't actually reliable.
I didn't believe it. And that was based on the constantly changing reasons GWB gave in support of an invasion. Let's see if I can recall a list off top of my head
Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11
He supported 9/11
He supported OBL
He harbored OBL
They have Nuclear Weapons
They bought enriched Uranium from Africa
They bought yellow cake from Africa
They have biological weapons
He's killing his own people
He's an evil dictator - yeah, that's it! Let's rush in and get him! Cause....we don't like how he governs his sovereign country
They won't let the UN inspectors inspect - but they did and they found....NOTHING
They have WMDs - yeah, that's it! Let's rush in and get him! He won't disarm!....That's because....they have NOTHING, see UN inspectors statements.
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Break the law you should go to jail.
What law was broken, precisely?
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Actually, most of those reasons were true.
And Bush never said Saddam did 9/11.
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It is amazing to me that the entire coalition of nations supporting the invasion were ALL fooled by the intelligence assessment of one single provider.
But then the long communist dog Obama and the lying scum Hilary and their entire staff were convinced that a you tube caused the embassy attack in Benghazi....
Sure.
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Actually, most of those reasons were true.
And Bush never said Saddam did 9/11.
Where's the laughing my ass off emoticon!
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Where's the laughing my ass off emoticon!
What are you laughing at? Prove otherwise.
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Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 - Bush never said that.
He supported 9/11 - Well, he probably did.
He supported OBL - Sure he did.
He harbored OBL - Not likely.
They have Nuclear Weapons - Nope.
They bought enriched Uranium from Africa - Never said that.
They bought yellow cake from Africa - They did, or tried to.
They have biological weapons - They sure did.
He's killing his own people - Clearly true and he was hung for it.
He's an evil dictator - yeah, that's it! Let's rush in and get him! Cause....we don't like how he governs his sovereign country - Evil for sure.
They won't let the UN inspectors inspect - Very true.
They have WMDs - Proven true.
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Bwahahhahhahaaaaa...
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Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 - Bush never said that. Yes, he did at first.
He supported 9/11 - Well, he probably did. No proof of that
He supported OBL - Sure he did. Nope, they're at opposite ends of the spectrum
He harbored OBL - Not likely. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum
They have Nuclear Weapons - Nope.
They bought enriched Uranium from Africa - Never said that. Yes, he did
They bought yellow cake from Africa - They did, or tried to. What' the hell is yellow cake anyhow (see youtube posted below)
They have biological weapons - They sure did. Not at the time of the invasion, that had been shown to be a decrepit program
He's killing his own people - Clearly true and he was hung for it. They were dealing with an armed insurrection. What would any other Government do?
He's an evil dictator - yeah, that's it! Let's rush in and get him! Cause....we don't like how he governs his sovereign country - Evil for sure. Subjective and doesn't defeat Geneva Conventions nor US laws on non-interference in internal sovereign countries....why don't we observe those laws anymore???? All of this was under the guise of GWOT
They won't let the UN inspectors inspect - Very true. They did their job and reported that they found nothing.
They have WMDs - Proven true. Incorrect and you know it....it's the subject matter of this thread for crikessakes
As promised....the Youtube on YellowCake
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Yep, all the violence and evil in the middle east is the fault of the USA
Not all of it, since it dates back thousands of years. But that we are duplicitous in the current round is beyond a doubt.
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Not all of it, since it dates back thousands of years. But that we are duplicitous in the current round is beyond a doubt.
Kind of disingenuous to blame the USA for violence that has been occuring for thousands of years.
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Not all of it, since it dates back thousands of years. But that we are duplicitous in the current round is beyond a doubt.
Always blame, and hate America first. The liberal/progressives since the 60's have always bitten the hand that feeds them unnecessarily. We have done much more good than harm around the world, including the Middle East. The M.E. has been a HELL HOLE well before we were involved.
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Not all of it, since it dates back thousands of years. But that we are duplicitous in the current round is beyond a doubt.
Kind of disingenuous to blame the USA for violence that has been occuring for thousands of years.
Kind of disingenuous to blame the USA for violence that has been occuring for thousands of years.
I think it's more accurate to say the blame would be Westerners Hegemony, those that have been in that region ruling it, dividing the people on the basis of paper lines and territories. That is what is the source of tension between Iraq and Kuwait, India and Pakistan, N and S Vietnam, N and S Korea (for example) when these are the SAME PEOPLE.
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I think it's more accurate to say the blame would be Westerners Hegemony, those that have been in that region ruling it, dividing the people on the basis of paper lines and territories. That is what is the source of tension between Iraq and Kuwait, India and Pakistan, N and S Vietnam, N and S Korea (for example) when these are the SAME PEOPLE.
You are wrong and naive. Read history. They are different tribes, and religions. The problem was Europe created artificial borders way before the US got involved.
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I'm wrong and naive for saying what you said???????
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I'm wrong and naive for saying what you said???????
I believe you're wrong and naive for believing that you said what he said.
Out of curiosity - and please be honest - can you define Western Hegemony without looking it up? You threw the phrase out there, do you really know what it means?
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Always blame, and hate America first. The liberal/progressives since the 60's have always bitten the hand that feeds them unnecessarily. We have done much more good than harm around the world, including the Middle East. The M.E. has been a HELL HOLE well before we were involved.
Have you ever, for one second even, consider that maybe, just maybe America is to blame for some of the misery in the world??? If you care to look, the evidence is there. Of course you can always dismiss it as left wing fabrications and lies by enemies of our country if it makes you sleep better at night.
America has done a lot of good in the world and they have done some bad. Not uncommon for countries, particularly powerful countries that have the most control. The Romans did a lot of good and did a lot of bad. The British did a lot of good and did a lot of bad. We are no different than those before us.
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We are no different than those before us.
And no different from every other country in the world with us. Every country causes good and bad effeccts.
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Have you ever, for one second even, consider that maybe, just maybe America is to blame for some of the misery in the world??? If you care to look, the evidence is there.
Like what?
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Have you ever, for one second even, consider that maybe, just maybe America is to blame for some of the misery in the world??? If you care to look, the evidence is there. Of course you can always dismiss it as left wing fabrications and lies by enemies of our country if it makes you sleep better at night.
America has done a lot of good in the world and they have done some bad. Not uncommon for countries, particularly powerful countries that have the most control. The Romans did a lot of good and did a lot of bad. The British did a lot of good and did a lot of bad. We are no different than those before us.
Did you read my post? I said the positives far outweigh the negatives. No country is perfect, and yes, please provide examples of America causing unjust misery in the world.
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Like what?
Oh, please! Get an grade school history book and have a read. Don't just look at the pictures. ::)
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Oh, please! Get an grade school history book and have a read. Don't just look at the pictures. ::)
Which revisionist textbook are you suggesting?
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No country is perfect, and yes, please provide examples of America causing unjust misery in the world.
Seriously?!?! You can't think of any?? Close your eyes and imagine all the history of the USofA here and abroad. Then think of how all the folks that weren't of white European descent might have felt about our actions.
It is what it is. In history there are always winners and losers. People rise up and others get crushed down. That's how it has always been. No need for reparations and apologies, but we shouldn't gloss over our history and sweep it under the rug either.